Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Asia

See also: Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Central Asia, Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Middle East, and Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Oceania

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Asia. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Further information

For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.

Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:

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Asia

Jelping-Ja-Oyka

Jelping-Ja-Oyka (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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As far as I can tell, this is a hoax article. I can find no source for Jelping-Ja-Oyka and the ones I did find use this article as a source. Additionally, the link listed in the article, aside from not looking reliable, does not even mention "Jelping-Ja-Oyka". Article has been marked as unsourced since 2021. Jaguarnik (talk) 17:50, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Mythology-related deletion discussions. Jaguarnik (talk) 17:50, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Asia-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 17:51, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Not a hoax (unless a very deep one, several decades old) – rather just a case of an obscure topic in a language which does not use the latin alphabet for writing. The name(s), in Russian, seem to be 'Консыг-Ойка' and 'Ялпус-ойка'. Here's the Russian: wikipedia page for it. The source it uses is this (last column on page 545). Endlesspumpkin (talk) 20:53, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

You are linking to a figure that uses a completely different name. Konsyg-Oika and Yalpus-Oika are not the same thing as "Jelping-Ja-Oyka", that is the hoax. The source you provided does not list the name "Jelping-Ja-Oyka". Nor does that figure Konsyg-Oika apparently have anything to do with Mir-Susne-Hum as the article claims is the case for "Jelping-Ja-Oyka". Jaguarnik (talk) 21:08, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Jelping-Ja-Oyka is how Alex Fantalov is transliterating the name, no? I'm not claiming him as some great authority (nor saying he's unreliable), but his page predates wikipedia, so it's certainly not the case that the information originated here. Endlesspumpkin (talk) 22:47, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

This has no basis in the text written on that site in Russian: "антагонистом Мир-Сусне-Хума был Консыг-Ойка - “Когтистый Старик”, дух Медведя. (The antagonist of Mir-Susne-Hum was Konsyg-Oyka - the "Old Man With Claws", spirit of bear.) Jelping-Ja-Oyka seems to be something invented by the translator. Jaguarnik (talk) 07:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

But this just shows that these two are clearly the same, no? And that "Jelping-Ja-Oyka" is just Fantalov's transliteration? This would be like deleting a page on "Akhilleus" because we can only find sources talking about "Achilles"; they're just different transliterations. – Michael Aurel (talk) 08:00, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

It does not. First, there is no indication that Alex Fantalov (or the site provided) is a reliable source. I've looked for who he is in both Russian and English and as far as I can tell he primarily works as an artist (the whole site is dedicated to his art). Second, the translation of that source is not good at all, there are multiple errors and additions that don't exist in the Russian original. The translation cannot be considered reliable. Third, "Akhilleus" and "Achilles" are far more similar to each other than "Konsyg-Oyka" and "Jelping-Ja-Oyka" are. The comparison does not work. Jaguarnik (talk) 08:28, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Ok, but I wouldn't suggest that Fantalov is a reliable source, nor that we ought to be citing him in the article, so his reliability or lack thereof isn't really important. All I was saying is that his website explains where the name "Jelping-Ja-Oyka" is coming from; it's just Fantalov's transliteration of "Консыг-Ойки", which is the actual subject of the article, no matter which transliteration is used, and is the same figure referred to in the dictionary given above, so the figure clearly isn't a hoax. "Konsyg-Oyka" and "Jelping-Ja-Oyka" are both just transliterations of "Консыг-Ойки", just as "Akhilleus" and "Achilles" are both transliterations of "Ἀχιλλεύς", so the comparison is apt. Unless you're suggesting that "Jelping-Ja-Oyka" isn't Fantalov's transliteration of "Консыг-Ойки"? But the Russian, containing "Консыг-Ойки", is given just above. – Michael Aurel (talk) 09:04, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

From what I understand, you disagree with the wording of "hoax", so I won't insist that it's a hoax. But there's no clear evidence that "Jelping-Ja-Oyka" is truly part of any mythology and wasn't just made up by this one person. I could also write on some website that Achilles is also transliterated as "Panteleimon" and insist on making an article for "Panteleimon", but that wouldn't make it a valid transliteration because it's a completely different name with no basis in the original. The same way "Jelping-Ja-Oyka" isn't a valid transliteration of "Консыг-Ойка", because it's a completely different name with no evidence and no basis.

If there's enough coverage of "Konsyg-Oyka" then I don't mind moving the article and rewriting it, but I haven't been able to find enough coverage to be convinced that it passed WP:SIGCOV. Jaguarnik (talk) 12:25, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, we don't actually disagree on anything meaningful here. Unless I'm mischaracterising your position, we seem to agree on the following two points, which are really the only significant ones: we shouldn't have a page under the title "Jelping-Ja-Oyka", and the current page seems to have come from (though it has mangled things, due to a poor source) the actual figure of Konsyg-Oyka, who is deserving of encyclopedic coverage, assuming we have sourcing passing WP:SIGCOV. It is certainly somewhat mysterious as to how Fantalov gets the exact name "Jelping-Ja-Oyka" from "Консыг-Ойки", but this is surely the figure he's referring to, given the Russian directly above, and the existence of this figure in reliable sources ("Yalpus-Oika" and "Jelping-Ja-Oyka" also aren't worlds apart). We could argue about technicalities until the cows come home, though; moving and reworking the page is what I'm suggesting, and this just requires finding sourcing which passes WP:SIGCOV, which is probably time more usefully spent. – Michael Aurel (talk) 13:34, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps the page should be moved then. But you agree that the actual mythological figure is the same, right? – Michael Aurel (talk) 23:51, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Only if more reliable sources can be found. If it's just one paragraph in a dictionary I would delete the page. Jaguarnik (talk) 07:17, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Sure, fair enough. I think Endlesspumpkin's point was just that the page is not a hoax. Now that we know it isn't, the question is one of WP:SIGCOV. I think I've found this figure elsewhere, though, since the sources are in languages I don't speak, I want to make sure they're referring to the same figure before listing them below (which I'll hopefully do shortly). – Michael Aurel (talk) 08:14, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV. Additionally, the content is not written with enough context for it to be understood as a topic which meens it could be deleted under WP:A1.4meter4 (talk) 01:47, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
• In Uralic mythology and folklore, p.212, Éva Schmidt writes about "Sacred Town Elder", one of whose appellations is jalp-us ojka. This text is not easy reading, but the impression I get by browsing through is that the encyclopedic topic here might be Ob-Ugrian bear cult, not one of the many names given to the object of worship. Since the name is not based on reliable sources (and there is currently no target for a possible redirect): Delete. 84.251.207.6 (talk) 15:38, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep. Per my discussion with Jaguarnik above, the name "Jelping-Ja-Oyka" just seems to be a (possibly problematic) transliteration of the name of the figure Yalpus-Oika (ie., Jalpus-Oyka), or Konsyg-Oika. This figure has decent coverage in reliable sources, and passes WP:SIGCOV:
  • Section 3.4 of I. N. Gemuev's НАРОД МАНСИ:ВОПЛОЩЕНИЕ МИФА is devoted to the figure
  • Tokarev's Мифы народов мира has an entry on them
  • The Encyclopedia of Religion, Volume 8 contains discussion of them
  • Shamanism: Past and Present, Part 1, from what I can see in the Google Books snippet, has a sentence on them at minimum, and possibly further discussion
  • Section 3.8 by A. A. Lyucidarskaya in НАРОДЫ СИБИРИ: ИСТОРИЯ И КУЛЬТУРА. МЕДВЕДЬ В ДРЕВНИХ И СОВРЕМЕННЫХ КУЛЬТУРАХ СИБИРИ also mentions them

I don't see any good reason for deletion. Yalpus-Oika is deserving of encyclopedic coverage, and is I think fairly clearly where "Jelping-Ja-Oyka" comes from. Deleting this page, rather than moving it to a more appropriate title and adding these sources, only worsens our coverage of a religion which is probably already poorly covered on Wikipedia. Unless the idea would be to delete this page, and then create "Yalpus-Oika" (or "Jalpus-Oyka")?, which seems a largely pointless exercise to me, when we could retain the current page, with its page history, and the context of this discussion. – Michael Aurel (talk) 16:31, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

I support the idea of renaming the page and adding the information from these sources as there seems to be enough reliable coverage of Yalpus-Oyka/Konsyg-Oyka. Jaguarnik (talk) 19:09, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

IShowSpeed's tour of Southeast Asia

IShowSpeed's tour of Southeast Asia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article is very poorly sourced, and constitutes WP:NOTNEWS CitrusHemlock 18:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Internet and Asia. CitrusHemlock 18:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  Note: For the AfDs on the Australia/New Zealand and Europe tours, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/IShowSpeed's tour of Australia and New Zealand. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Leaning Delete Per the sources being mostly just his own live streams. Poor sourcing, only slightly notable. ☩ ^{(Babysharkboss2)} 18:17, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete - Filled with primary and unreliable sources, along with original research. Also seems to be written from a fan's perspective. The tour should be mentioned in IShowSpeed's individual article as there is not enough substance for an individual article. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Just so we keep the info all on one discussion, if anyone knows how to do it, I'm thinking we should merge this AfD discussion with the Europe and Australia/New Zealand tours. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 18:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Travel and tourism, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:11, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete egregious over-coverage of a streamer, based on primary sources. Walsh90210 (talk) 21:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete. Full of primary sources (i.e. his livestreams, which are definitely NOT appropriate sources). It's already mentioned in his own article, so anything to add should be kept there. Procyon117 (talk) 12:34, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

APFIC Objective and Key Achievements

APFIC Objective and Key Achievements (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Entire article is written like a promotion. Only source mentioning APFIC is its own page and a document at fao.org, its parent organization. ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 06:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Organizations and Asia. ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 06:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep. It has an entry in this Dictionary, this Dictionary, and an entry beginning on page 627 in International Organizations and the Law of the Sea of which only the first page is viewable. The Encyclopedia of Ocean Law and Policy in Asia-Pacific takes the time to document when various countries became members of this organization. It's organized by nation, so the coverage is across multiple pages. I think this highlighting within an overview of each country indicates some importance. There is also some coverage in [1], [2], Best.4meter4 (talk) 07:07, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
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Afghanistan

Battle of Tabriz (1757)

Battle of Tabriz (1757) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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"There Mohammad Hassan Khan occupied Tabriz". That is literally all this article says about this "battle". The cited source doesn't say anything more than that ("First Tabrīz fell then,). Doesn't seem notable. HistoryofIran (talk) 03:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, History, Military, Afghanistan, and Iran. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete and salt, even G3. One of a number of hoaxes from this author/group that inflate minor actions/skirmishes to the title 'battle'... Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:33, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Mazar-i-Sharif–Kabul–Peshawar railway line

Mazar-i-Sharif–Kabul–Peshawar railway line (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Another article at Uzbekistan–Afghanistan–Pakistan Railway Project exists about the same topic. This one can be deleted. Wikibear47 (talk) 14:44, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete - Per nomination, the IP that restored this article was also a sock of Oriental Aristocrat.[3] - Ratnahastin (talk) 13:56, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
• Redirect to Uzbekistan–Afghanistan–Pakistan Railway Project per WP:ATD. It is a viable search term so a redirect probably is better.4meter4 (talk) 17:43, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:23, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Redirect to Uzbekistan–Afghanistan–Pakistan Railway Project. Basically a duplicate of that article anyway, with no new information. Procyon117 (talk) 15:36, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Proposed deletions

New alerts are automatically placed here, this page is kept as a historic reference.

Azerbaijan

Armudly

Armudly (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails GEOLAND as there is no evidence that this place exists, let alone is legally recognised. GEOnet Names Server is not a reliable source per the RSN discussion. The location in the article is the ruined village of Mos, not Armudly.

Ineligible for prod since it was already prodded and declined by Explicit in 2021 on the grounds that it exists on sister projects, however these are clearly just copy/pastes of the EN Wikipedia article on Persian, Georgian, and Malay Wiki. Azeri wiki (the only sister project that would actually matter in this case) doesn't have a corresponding article. There is also no reliably-sourced information to merge here.

This article was mass-created by Carlossuarez46 along with many, many other failing articles. In the same 60 second period in which they created this article (01:27 19 August 2008), they created three others, and 852 articles in the same day. FOARP (talk) 21:48, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

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Commission on Combating Corruption

Commission on Combating Corruption (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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There is no reliable sourcing in this article. One of many articles imported by Azerbaijani editors into English Wikipedia that just stenograph the propaganda of the authoritarian regime without any reliable sourcing. Thenightaway (talk) 18:46, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Law and Azerbaijan. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment: Just because there aren't any reliable sources on the page doesn't mean they don't exist, and isn't really an argument against notability. Per WP:BEFORE you have to check for them if you're doing an AFD. Mrfoogles (talk) 19:58, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Weak keep: Some independent (mostly Western government or NGO) sources exist: [4], [5]. Not sure if those count as significant coverage, however. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 22:24, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Those are primary sources that say nothing substantive about this government program. Thenightaway (talk) 22:30, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Redirect to Corruption in Azerbaijan as an ATD, and because it’s basically a fork. I’m seeing a lot of poorly sourced Azeri stubs lately - there must be dozens or hundreds - some of which are duplicated or forks. Bearian (talk) 18:11, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Bangladesh

Vicky Zahed

AfDs for this article:

• Articles for deletion/Vicky Zahed
• Articles for deletion/Vicky Zahed (2nd nomination)

Vicky Zahed (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails our notability criteria – doesn't meet WP:CREATIVE. Ratekreel (talk) 13:34, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 14:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: Sources 1 and 7 are RS and are about this individual and some of their handy work, I think it's ok. Oaktree b (talk) 21:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Weak Keep: Reference no. 1 and 7 are fine. Baqi:) (talk) 14:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Mahbub Morshed

Mahbub Morshed (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Not seeing significant coverage from multiple independent reliable sources, the subject fails to meet WP:GNG. Additionally, their books are not notable, thereby failing to meet WP:AUTHOR. GrabUp - Talk 08:56, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

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He is the current Managing Director and Chief Editor of Bangladesh's national news agency. He has been working as a journalist since 2006 and has held various roles in many of the country's top newspapers and media. In addition, he has published 12 books, most of which are bestsellers in Bangladesh and India, particularly within the Bengali community. He is also a pioneer of the Bengali blogging community, having started as a blogger and author in 2005. His articles are available on Bengali Wikipedia. The page may need some improvements, deleting it is not the best option. Thank you. Normoddev (talk) 04:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete - he’s not a journalist per se, but (at best) a mid-level manager at a "state-run national news agency." Bearian (talk) 04:04, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete: Most of the sources cited in the article are unreliable, primarily local websites. Furthermore, they have been presented in a misleading manner, which could potentially misguide editors. Baqi:) (talk) 14:39, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Foysal Ahmed Shanto

Foysal Ahmed Shanto (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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This is clearly a case of WP:BIO1E, as the sources cover the subject only in relation to the 2024 Bangladesh protest where the subject died. GrabUp - Talk 08:50, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Merge into an appropriate target about the protests. If he were named in reliable sources as the best-known martyr, then it would be a keep. I’m going to need convincing to keep. On the other hand, some context and his story is part of a larger historical narrative, so outright deleting it would give undue weight to other side(s) and stories. Bearian (talk) 04:12, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Khairul Basar

AfDs for this article:

• Articles for deletion/Khairul Basar
• Articles for deletion/Khairul Basar (2nd nomination)

Khairul Basar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article clearly fails WP:NACTOR. It was deleted last time too but was recreated without establishing any evidence of notability. Nxcrypto Message 09:55, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. The three sources in the article do not pass notability guidelines as two of which are interviews and the remaining one is a news version of the interview from Daily Star. Though that may count as WP:SIGCOV, it is not enough to pass notability. Google search did not provide further prove of notability. This subject therefore failed WP:NACTOR and WP:GNG. Mekomo (talk) 10:19, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Television, and Bangladesh. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 12:00, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• The first deletion was 3 years ago. Sources that were published after that date include: https://www.thedailystar.net/entertainment/tv-film/news/12-shades-khairul-basar-eid-3011136 ; https://bangladeshpost.net/posts/keya-khairul-team-up-for-the-first-time-in-porichoy-127326 ; https://www.daily-sun.com/printversion/details/683171/Dighi-Khairul-Basar-in-web-film-‘Murder-90’mand a lot of Daily Star coverage and interviews. -Mushy Yank. 13:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete No indication of notability and promotional.Vinegarymass911 (talk) 19:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Foreign relations of the Magadhan Empire

Foreign relations of the Magadhan Empire (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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A mess of WP:SYNTH connecting disparate incidents across centuries. The subject topic itself ("Foreign relations of the Magadhan Empire") has received no significant coverage in reliable sources. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, History, Bangladesh, and India. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Excuse me? The article has sources backing up everything.

  "Connecting disparate incidents", what do even mean by that? Obviously I would check out all the dynasties and not just one single one JingJongPascal (talk) 15:22, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep has proper sources backing everything up.

JingJongPascal (talk) 15:26, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete as per nom. Coeusin (talk) 15:48, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Foreign relations of the Mughal Empire also does not have a source saying it's distcintity JingJongPascal (talk) 17:15, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete: @JingJongPascal Its not that even if article is verifiable it be created per WP:Verifiability#Verifiability does not guarantee inclusion this whole article can better be a subsection in Magadha article.Nor it has sufficient enough of being standing alone.

Edasf«Talk» 15:56, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete as per nom. Not covered as a distinct topic in sources. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 16:10, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete: Per nom. All the content, if it is not already there, should go to the individual pages - Nanda, Maurya etc. Arnav Bhate (talk • contribs) 12:23, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete - Per nomination. Another example of nationalistic revision of history that is taking place in India and Wikipedia being used for it. - Ratnahastin (talk) 18:29, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

  Care to provide how this is a "nationalistic revision of History"

  Maybe discuss about the reasons you don't like the articled instead of pointing out my views and ideologies which has nothing to do here?

  WP:PersonalAttack JingJongPascal (talk) 09:18, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete unless the author addresses the issue of SIGCOV. HistoryofAryavart (talk) 20:53, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Principality of Pataliputra

Principality of Pataliputra (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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"Principality of Pataliputra" is an unsourced term and the content of this article is about the city for which we already have an excellent article Pataliputra. This article appears to be a POV fork of that article, primarily designed to push the idea of a continuity between mythology (the Magadha kingdoms described in Hindu mythological texts) and history (the Mauryas) RegentsPark (comment) 16:54, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. RegentsPark (comment) 16:54, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@RegentsPark I am unable to understand wha is your argument of of Mythological Hindu Magadha Kingdom and Mauryas since this article is related to none of them its about a polity that existed after fall of Kanvas and until rise of Guptas. Edasf«Talk» 13:42, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep, all your argumetns are wrong
  • The article is not about the city
  • The article is not about any mythological kingdom
  • The article is not a POV fork, as i took nothing from city article and it is not related to it.

JingJongPascal (talk) 17:00, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bangladesh and India. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:35, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete I'm not seeing any significant coverage of the article subject in the sources provided; seems to be largely WP:SYNTH. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  The sources for the magadha between kanvas and guptas is very scarce. But as per wiki guidelines, even if a article is not big or long , it doesn't mean it should be deleted WP:Stub JingJongPascal (talk) 08:22, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  As per the first source in the article, after kanvas got defeated. Magadha became a principality centred around Pataliputra.

  And according to same source, "Gupta's restored magadha to an dominant power again"

  So the interval between kanvas and guptas , magadha was a principality. JingJongPascal (talk) 08:30, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  None of that original research matters JingJongPascal. If there is not significant coverage in reliable sources, the article is not notable enough for Wikipedia. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  It isn't original research.

  My sources clearly states that Magadha reduced to a principality around Pataliputra.

  And it was ruled until gupta empire JingJongPascal (talk) 13:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  I refer you to the second sentence of my recent comment. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:20, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete as per nom and Airship. Can't see anything salvageable from this article, sorry. Coeusin (talk) 09:12, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  As per wiki guidelines, an article is not judged by its content but by the content it has the potentional for. Just because the article doesn't have important points doesn't makes the article "less salvageable",

  WITHOUT this article , we are missing nearly a 300 year gap between Magadhan Empire and Gupta Empire (rulers of Magadha).

  This principality was ruled by pre-imperial gupta kings. It has very less sources for it, as the info is very scarce. (Mentioned in article with proper sources mentioning that records are less).

  WP:STUB JingJongPascal (talk) 10:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Keep: Per Jingjongs arguments quit fine and fills the 300 year gap.Edasf«Talk» 07:24, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Rakibul Hasan

Rakibul Hasan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails to meet significant coverage criteria. I PRODed this article but then discovered it had already been done in the past so am now AFDing it. Shrug02 (talk) 17:13, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kaizenify (talk) 08:54, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete Fails WP:GNG; WP:SPORTSBASIC no WP:SIGCOV, listings/routine fixtures only. What little MSM coverage there is comprises match stats and short bios listing teams/fixtures. Confusingly, there's also a Rakibul Hasan (cricketer, born 2002) out there who is no more notable. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 10:01, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Abdul Hannan Masud

Abdul Hannan Masud (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Sources do not show in-depth coverage needed for WP:GNG. Vinegarymass911 (talk) 02:47, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Comment This needs a review by Bengali-speaking editors. Several sources do not appear to mention the subject, but are used to support statements about him. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:43, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: The article is in development, and the person is worth notable. Need some time to add citations. Ahammed Saad (talk) 16:14, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: as per @Ahammed Saad Bruno 🌹 (talk) 17:48, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment I've read the entire article. In the second paragraph of the beginning, a statement by Abdul Hannan Masud (the subject of the article) from a Facebook video has been slightly modified and cited with a Facebook link. Again, what is written about the person in the third paragraph is not supported by the referenced news link. The news link discusses his speech. In the Early Life and Education section, several links are cited, which are inconsistent. In the Activism section, although some references align, a lot of personal opinions have been used. C⚛smLearner ^💬🔬 18:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Typical of cite bombs. I will withdraw my nomination if the creator can present three in-depth coverage from reliable sources.Vinegarymass911 (talk) 19:32, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: As the nominator states, "I will withdraw my nomination if the creator can present three in-depth coverage from reliable sources". Can those arguing to Keep point out any RS that provide SIGCOV?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:06, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment Sohan61 it would be very helpful if you could translate the title of each source that isn't in English and set the trans-title attribute of the citation template accordingly. Please also set the website= attribute with the English name of each source website, so we can more easily see what these citations are. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 12:50, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Aslam Chowdhury

Aslam Chowdhury (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Not meeting WP ANYBIOP and WP:POLITICIAN. Deleted 9 years ago per A7 美しい歌 (talk) 13:10, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi,

What is required to be included in this article for it to come out of the deletion process?

The individual is a high profile politician of Bangladesh Nationalist Party who has been arbitrarily imprisoned by a toppled regime for 8 years. Intlctzn (talk) 13:26, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Here is a list of long media coverage regarding the individual which spans over a decade.

"Bangladeshi Dissident Aslam Chowdhury released from prison". Foreign Policy Blogs. 2024-08-27. Retrieved 2024-11-11."Morshed Khan, Afroza Abbas, Aslam Chowdhury round off BNP success on appeals". www.unb.com.bd. Retrieved 2024-11-11."BNP appoints three more members to Chairperson's Advisory Council"."Bangladesh politician arrested for 'Israel handshake'". Al Jazeera. Retrieved 2024-11-11."BNP leader Aslam Chowdhury walks out of jail after 8 yrs -". The Daily Observer. Retrieved 2024-11-11."Bangladeshi Opposition Official Arrested for Alleged Contacts With Mossad"."Bangladesh opposition official arrested over Israel meeting"."BNP's Aslam on seven-day remand | The Asian Age Online, Bangladesh". The Asian Age. Retrieved 2024-11-11.bdnews24.com. "Police claim BNP leader Aslam has given substantial information about plot with Israel". Police claim BNP leader Aslam has given substantial information about plot with Israel. Retrieved 2024-11-11."BNP leader Aslam Chy arrested over 'meeting' Mossad agent [ Tritiyo Matra News ]". www.tritiyomatra.com. Retrieved 2024-11-11.bdnews24.com. "BNP's Aslam arrested in Dhaka over 'Israel plot' to overthrow Hasina regime". BNP’s Aslam arrested in Dhaka over ‘Israel plot’ to overthrow Hasina regime. Retrieved 2024-11-11.bdnews24.com. "BNP's Hannan says RAW released Aslam's photo with Israel politician in Bangladesh media". BNP’s Hannan says RAW released Aslam’s photo with Israel politician in Bangladesh media. Retrieved 2024-11-11."Govt stages drama over Aslam's meeting with Israeli leader: BNP"."BNP leader Aslam Chowdhury gets HC bail". The Business Standard. 2021-05-30. Retrieved 2024-11-11."BNP leader Aslam Chy released on bail". daily-sun. Retrieved 2024-11-11. Intlctzn (talk) 14:04, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete Subsections all can be under controversy, A bio is not notable just for 1 event hence fail WP:Bio, You might choose to add any notable things he has done in the future. Tesleemah (talk) 14:47, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

  Added more information. Intlctzn (talk) 10:01, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 14:16, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep Nominator for this deletion quotes WP:POLITICIAN to delete this article but per aforesaid guidelines, politicians who have held office or received significant press coverage (as politician / business head) are considered notable. Main article's political career section seems to fulfill this criteria.

(if) other concerns on quality of article can however be raised on main article page and improvements invited, this should not warrant a deletion though Nisingh.8 (talk) 18:07, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

References

• Delete per WP:POLOUTCOMES. We have deleted, in the past 10 years, thousands of articles about diplomats, political party officials, losing candidates, and activists, up to and including candidates for the United States Senate, for lack of significant coverage. Only members of parliament or the equivalent are automatically included here: not political party officials. It’s about as strong a consensus as you can imagine on Wikipedia. If you haven’t ever read Wikipedia, you might not know that, but that’s not our problem, because in 2024 everybody knows that. We are not Ballotpedia or Truth Social. Bearian (talk) 06:22, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Aminul Islam Rabel

Aminul Islam Rabel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Non notable Pourosova (aka municipality) mayor. The article has some refs, but all of them are basically interview masquerading as article, WP:PRIMARY. There is no significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, fails WP:POLITICIAN, WP:GNG আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 21:51, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

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That's too much! He isn't a former mayor but also politician featured in lot of Bigg press News. He was the Mayor of Golapganj which was indeed featured in various bigg news like The Business Standard and The daily star although Aminul Islam Rabel was not featured primarily but as Mayor of Golapgonj. And first finish the discussion of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mayor of Golapganj Therealbey (talk) 18:42, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• In any case, it is not ready for the main space. If he is noteworthy, you will certainly be able to find information about him to write an article that is not just an infobox. In that case, move to Draft, improve, and ask for a review. If there is nothing else, delete without delay. 93.65.245.63 (talk) 19:57, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  i didn't written that doesn't mean ge isn't important! there is much info about him on internet but not written in Wikipedia Therealbey (talk) 20:11, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:14, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Still there is no significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 01:43, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. Fails WP:NPOL and WP:SIGCOV. Our guidelines for local politicians are pretty strict. A mayor of a relatively small town like Golapganj Municipality is not notable. The news coverage would need to be national or global in scope and not just local to justify an article under GNG.4meter4 (talk) 02:37, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There is an unbolded Keep vote here in this discussion so I don't think a Soft Deletion is appropriate.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:27, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. Being an elected local official (mayor of a town of ~40,000, a non-notable office) carries no presumption of notability under WP:NPOL. The topic fails WP:GNG because all available sources are primary: the announcement of his election[6] and his suspension.[7][8]...[9] (The media stories for the latter event all rely on the same government notification as a source and state essentially the same information.) --Worldbruce (talk) 17:41, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Cambodia

IShowSpeed's tour of Southeast Asia

IShowSpeed's tour of Southeast Asia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article is very poorly sourced, and constitutes WP:NOTNEWS CitrusHemlock 18:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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  Note: For the AfDs on the Australia/New Zealand and Europe tours, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/IShowSpeed's tour of Australia and New Zealand. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Leaning Delete Per the sources being mostly just his own live streams. Poor sourcing, only slightly notable. ☩ ^{(Babysharkboss2)} 18:17, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete - Filled with primary and unreliable sources, along with original research. Also seems to be written from a fan's perspective. The tour should be mentioned in IShowSpeed's individual article as there is not enough substance for an individual article. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Just so we keep the info all on one discussion, if anyone knows how to do it, I'm thinking we should merge this AfD discussion with the Europe and Australia/New Zealand tours. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 18:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
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• Delete egregious over-coverage of a streamer, based on primary sources. Walsh90210 (talk) 21:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete. Full of primary sources (i.e. his livestreams, which are definitely NOT appropriate sources). It's already mentioned in his own article, so anything to add should be kept there. Procyon117 (talk) 12:34, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

China

Sino-Kannauj War

Sino-Kannauj War (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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A mere raid that has been vaguely stretched into a War article. RSes do not refer to it as "Sino-Kannauj War", full of WP:HOAX. The article clearly fails to establish WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV. HistoryofAryavart (talk) 12:26, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep:@HistoryofAryavart Why there cant be a article? And better check sources and it has a coverage in sources a mere raid doesnt mean it cant have a article and what hoax? whicj info is wrong this Afd seems to based on your POV theres quit ample content for a article title can be changed. Also the theres literally a newsarticle over this in references this suggests that its quit notable.

Edasf«Talk» 12:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC) Edasf«Talk» 12:47, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Another thing about notability you completely ignored that its even listed at China-India relations article dont think a non notable thing would be listed here. Edasf«Talk» 13:03, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

No, that's not how it works. News articles and blogs are not RSes please go through WP:MILNG and WP:RS. I have checked all of the cited sources and non of it explicitly describes "Sino-Kannauj War". The issue of HOAX and GNG still remains unless the article is backed by reliable source that can corroborate to the topic and not some attack or raid. HistoryofAryavart (talk) 13:14, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

@HistoryofAryavart Newsa article isnt only source there and there are also books who are definitely RS by Reliable authors and I have moved page Edasf«Talk» 13:20, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

There's nothing to be found about "Sino-Kannauj War" in the sources, quote the sources explicitly mentioning this event. And please do not move the article while the Afd is going on. HistoryofAryavart (talk) 13:23, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Heres one Prabhod Chandra Bagchi (2011) "The very same year 647 the Wang Xuance was sent to another imperial mission to Magadha.On his arrival he found that Harsha had died and his minister Arunasva King of Tirabhukti had usurped the throne.The Chinese mission wasnt well recieved its escorts murdered and treasures plundered,Wang Xuance manage to save himself and fled to Nepal which was allied to China through Tibet.There he gathered the milltary support from mercenary Nepali and Tibetan troops and marched on Magadha" Its not full quote theres more but I dont have time you can check the source only.@HistoryofAryavart Edasf«Talk» 13:36, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Rename There is sufficient coverage for the historical event however the invasion took place purely in the Tirhut/Mithila region of Northern Bihar and Arunasava/Arjuna is described as being the governor or ruler of Tirhut first and foremost hence I believe the article should be renamed to reflect this e.g. the Chinese Invasion of Tirhut.Ixudi (talk) 14:17, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Ixudi I am OK for it Edasf«Talk» 14:24, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  Well the historians don't even consider the Chinese accounts as reliable or based on historical events but a hoax. For eg see what Majumdar has to say on this event:

  • p. 125

    In any case, it is impossible to draw any reliable conclusion from this picture of an invincible hero painted by himself.

  • p. 124

    But the Chinese account of the embassy of Wang-hiuen-tse which, as noted above, reached India immediately after the death of Harsha, has preserved some curious details of the history of this period. Accustomed as we are to the exaggeration and self-adulation of the Chinese writers, this account beats all records and reads more like a romance or a string of fables than sober history.

  The article is based on a fictional account and the hero (Wang-hiuen-tse) is painted by himself. The issue of WP:HOAX still remains and there's no reason for this article to be kept in article mainspace. HistoryofAryavart (talk) 14:39, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  @HistoryofAryavart We can still as a article since you gave several more content if it has coverage then we can keep it after some redraw and your source doesn't completely denies its existence. Edasf«Talk» 14:45, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  No, the article is purely based on a fabricated account and I have quoted the source to show that it's full of hoaxes, hence Majumdar concludes:

  • p. 126

    On the whole, the story of Wang-hiuen-tse has little historical value, except as a general indication of the anarchy and confusion prevailing in North Biliar and the neighbouring region after the death of Harsha. What happened to the kingdoms of Thaneswar or Kanauj we cannot say, but there is no ground to suppose that Harsha’s death was followed by a political upheaval in the whole of North India.

  HistoryofAryavart (talk) 14:55, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  @HistoryofAryavart First of all there are other sources as well which do consider it historical and Majumdar is not complete RS since he's no longer a introductory textbooks and his nationalist nature.You need multiple source and Majumdar's interpretations can definitely added in Article but this isn't concrete to delete article. Edasf«Talk» 15:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  This is not a case WP:HOAX beacuse the article is based on actual stories. Rather the actual article should be edited to reflect that the events detailed in the stories may not necessarily be historically accurate. Ixudi (talk) 15:11, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  I have shown how this Chinese account is not taken seriously. And the event doesn't get enough coverage, much less 5-6 lines of passing mentions which doesn't warrant a standalone article, that said it could have been merged into a parent article. HistoryofAryavart (talk) 15:33, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  What 5-6 line passages? There are 5-6 pages of it in sources and we usually have separate articles for wars and on what grounds you consider it incapable your POV? Edasf«Talk» 15:38, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  And Ixudi already told that it has sufficient coverage even a 5-6 line passage is if it has coverage. Edasf«Talk» 15:41, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  The quote that you excerpted from the Bagchi (2011) has no more than 6 lines of coverage. HistoryofAryavart (talk) 18:44, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

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Syuejia Shang Baijiao and harvesting incense

Syuejia Shang Baijiao and harvesting incense (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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I'm not sure if this article would stay within draftspace if I moved it there, given that the creator just moved it all over the place. Not well sourced, and a WP:BEFORE search failed. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 02:47, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

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I am the author of this page, and I sincerely apologize. I was trying to move this article to the main page, but due to an operational error, it was unintentionally moved to two or three other locations. Later, I found the correct way to transfer it to the Wikipedia main page. Sources have now been properly cited. ALFART3594 (talk) 15:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Wu Sing-yung

Wu Sing-yung (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Seemingly written by someone close to the subject, fails WP:PROF. Remsense ‥ 论 08:41, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

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• I'm finding IS ∩ RS ∩ SIGCOV at this 2016 article, this 2016 article, and this 2023 article; IS RS discussion of his work without SIGCOV at this 2009 article and this 2019 article; and an RS SIGCOV 2012 interview which I'd consider to be IS as well even though interviews are sometimes borderline.
  Fails NPROF for sure, but looks like he meets NAUTHOR (or maybe it's ANYBIO or GNG; notability guidelines confuse me). The article is a bit curriculis vitae (which is probably the wrong declension, but "CV" tends to mean "copyvio" here so expanding); this can be fixed. Not super convinced by COI hypothesis: this article is indeed the first major contribution by Singering88, but a. creating it as their userpage is a fair and common rookie mistake; and b. the subject was born 1939, lived in and was educated in Taiwan, then emigrated to the US— at no point in this chain would it be intuitive that a COI editor would choose to render the subject's native name in 簡體字 (which it has been since the initial recension).
  I could see a case here for COATRACK, since a fair portion of the prose actually deals with the subject's research into the Retreat of the government of the Republic of China to Taiwan. But I am seeing notability here, so landing at improve and keep. Folly Mox (talk) 16:36, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

  Hoc simulat curriculum vitae, perhaps? —David Eppstein (talk) 19:09, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep. No GS profile but there seems to be substantial citations, top 410, 305, 265, 226, 169 and further ~five >100 citns, which makes a case for meeting PROF by citations for the thyroid hormone work. Seven mainstream published books are also likely to have generated enough reviews to meet AUTHOR. The article is probably readily salvageable simply by deleting all the unrelated material. If there was COI originally, the article was submitted to AfC and accepted by DGG, so that's not a reason for deletion. Espresso Addict (talk) 23:17, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Gar (music)

Gar (music) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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It is written as an original research, fails WP:ATD and Fails WP:SIGCOV Jinnllee90 (talk) 17:23, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 November 22. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 17:49, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep. Clearly a WP:BEFORE was not done. Here is a book review of an entire book dedicated to this genre of music and dance in Tibet. There is also WP:SIGCOV in Jizeng, Mao (2001). "The Traditional Music of Tibet". In Robert C. Provine; Yosihiko Tokumaru; J. Lawrence Witzleben (eds.). The Garland Encyclopedia of World Music: East Asia: China, Japan, and Korea. Vol. Section IV: Music of China's National Minorities. Taylor & Francis. doi:10.1201/9781315086507. ISBN 9781315086507. Best.4meter4 (talk) 18:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Lu (music)

Lu (music) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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It is written as an original investigation, Fails WP:SIGCOV. Jinnllee90 (talk) 21:53, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 November 21. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 22:20, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Music and China. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 22:23, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment: I don't really see how a one-sentence stub article with a book reference falls under the description in the nomination above? Anyway, a Google Books search shows other summaries of this music, such as in Rachel Pang 's recent "Singer of the land of snows", where Lu can be seen described as "deeply rooted in the popular, oral and folk traditions of Tibet". AllyD (talk) 11:03, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect: A similar summary exists in Music of Tibet#History, but without a reference. I think that can provide a WP:ATD target. AllyD (talk) 11:08, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete. I've boldly performed the merge into Music of Tibet § History after also finding a better source. I'm landing on delete instead of redirect for a few reasons:
  • The disambiguator (music) here is not very helpful, and fails PRECISE.
  • It's not clear whether "lu", on its own, is a full transliteration of the Tibetan word for this topic. I'm not familiar with Tibetan, but I know its phonology contrasts two vowel lengths and two or more vowel tones, none of which are indicated anywhere here, nor is a native term provided to assist searching for additional information.
  • Subsidiary to this, the Chinese terms for the subject (spelt including the loangraph 魯) never refer to the subject using only that word, which is ambiguous outside the context of historical geography. (This term is also not provided in the article, and it took me probably twenty minutes to narrow down keyword searches sufficiently to find a Chinese source on the topic.)
  • No good redirect target unless we want to break out a separate subheading in Music of Tibet specifically for folk music. That article is currently partitioned entirely differently: § History is mostly about sacred music, with a single paragraph touching on secular folk forms; § Popular and modern seems inapplicable. A subparagraph anchor to the single sentence on "lu" folk music would be a disappointing clickthrough.
  • Most of the inlinks are from template transclusions, so cleanup should be easy. I did retain the link at Music of Tibet § History just in case.
  If someone wants to expand on the subject we could revisit a potential redirect or recreation. AllyD seems to have found sources, and the source I added has good further information, although only the first half of the article is visible without registration.
  Noting I also don't understand / agree with the nomination rationale. Folly Mox (talk) 14:52, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

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The result was redirect‎ to China–Myanmar relations. (non-admin closure) Alpha3031 (t • c) 21:39, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

China-Myanmar community with a shared future

China-Myanmar community with a shared future (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Does not appear to have WP:SUSTAINED notability warranting an artcle. Amigao (talk) 20:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, Politics, China, and Myanmar. Shellwood (talk) 20:59, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete/merge to China–Myanmar relations as appropriate. Reywas92^Talk 22:17, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
• Merge/redirect to China–Myanmar relations.4meter4 (talk) 01:20, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

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List of serving generals of the People's Republic of China

List of serving generals of the People's Republic of China (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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This list purports to include all "serving generals of the PRC", but in fact only lists 7 generals occupying some key posts. It's not at all clear that a list of all active generals in an army of 2,000,000+ personnel could ever be kept up to date. I'm not even sure that China publishes the names of all top officers.

Renaming could be an option, but it's not clear what the name would be.

Additionally, it's not really Wikipedia's core mission to provide lists of current anythings (WP:NOTDIRECTORY, WP:NOTTEMPORARY). I could imagine a more appropriate list which included all historic commanders, and gave readers a timeline of command, but that's not what this is.

FWIW, the list has been unreferenced since its inception, although I imagine this deficiency could be remedied easily enough. pburka (talk) 00:20, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, Military, and China. pburka (talk) 00:20, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep at present. Passes WP:NLIST as a clearly defined set. Also top military personnel in a major world power would be easily sourced. Making arguments about WP:NOTDIRECTORY and WP:NOTTEMPORARY would be more convincing if there weren't many other lists of this kind. We have a Category:Lists of active duty military personnel and the arguments being made here seem to be pertinent to all the lists currently in that category. It would be better to make this a bundled nomination if we are going to generally attack the idea of pages listing active duty military personnel. I suspect that when looked at as a group, there might be support for keeping such lists as encyclopedic. Lastly, the other argument that this is incomplete is spurious as we have policies on dynamic and incomplete lists as well as stub pages which support their inclusion and instruct editors to improve/expand coverage rather than delete them. Being incomplete is not a valid reason for deletion.4meter4 (talk) 00:54, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the thoughtful contribution. I shouldn't argue that the list is incomplete, but that it's ill-defined. It's not a list of all current generals, but a list of generals in selected important posts. There's no explanation of why these posts were included, and I don't see any reliable sources discussing this group of officers. However, if the content were changed to match the title, I still think it could be problematic. It's difficult to even find an estimate of how many PLA generals there are. Regarding the WP:OTHERSTUFF, we have more complete lists of the general staffs of America, Bangladesh, Britain, India, and Pakistan. I also question the encyclopedic value of these, but only brought the Chinese list to AfD because of its other deficiencies. pburka (talk) 14:59, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• This list cannot stay the way it is. The scope given by its title is too broad and doesn't match the far more limited scope of its content. If it did, it would basically duplicate List of generals of China. Either we should move to List of current Chinese military leaders or something similar, or we should merge to List of generals of China. Toadspike [Talk] 10:28, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  The similar lists at Category:Lists of active duty military personnel all have a more limited scope than this one. If this list is kept in some form, it should probably be split by rank and/or branch. Toadspike [Talk] 10:31, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

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Wuzhen Initiative

Wuzhen Initiative (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Likely violates WP:NPOV. Does not appear to meet notability requirements. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wildfireupdateman (talk • contribs) 19:37, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

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Selective Merge to World Internet Conference#Summits#2nd World Internet Conference per WP:ATD. On its own not independently notable, but this was the end product of the 2nd World Internet Conference so it is reasonably covered there. The secondary sources that are still accessible can be used to verify content, and whoever does the merge can remove any overly promotional content in order to comply with WP:NPOV. Best.4meter4 (talk) 00:19, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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Lost Mary

Lost Mary (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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It has been in the NPP for a very long time. Unable to find sufficient significant coverage, fails WP:ORG. - The9Man ^Talk 11:29, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment - cursory source for sources - Reuters, Associated Press, BBC, Law360, Financial Times, Independent, The Times, The Guardian, Birmingham Mail, The Grocer. Bristol Post. New York Times, TheJournal.ie, Wired starship.paint (talk / cont) 11:53, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

  The articles I ended up with were just mentions. If anyone feels otherwise, feel free to improve the article.- The9Man ^Talk 12:03, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi The9Man, thank you. I created the Lost Mary article because the brand is ubiquitous in the UK. The area behind the till in every corner shop is covered in Lost Mary products. I was looking for information and couldn't believe there wasn't a Wikipedia article about it. I'm not very familiar with Wikipedia but I can contribute a photograph of an electronic cigarettes display showing the Lost Mary products, if this helps. Jfclemay (talk) 11:56, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

@Jfclemay, Thank you for your contribution! Wikipedia articles require coverage from reliable, independent sources to establish notability. You can read the guidelines here - WP:ORGCRIT. If you have sources such as news articles, industry publications, or other reputable coverage about the brand, adding those could strengthen the article. Additionally, photographs can be valuable, just be sure that any images you upload are your own work or that you have the proper permissions.

@Thanks again for your efforts! - The9Man ^Talk 12:14, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete Redirect The sources above are all dicdefs for 'passing mention' as far as Lost Mary is concerned, listed in each as one of a number of 'brands of concern' and introduced typically with 'such as...' - Elf Bar might make the grade on coverage, albeit for all the wrong reasons. But Lost Mary is one of a large number of brands the company makes and does not merit an article. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 12:08, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Products and China. Shellwood (talk) 12:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete - Sources fail WP:ORGCRIT. --CNMall41 (talk) 07:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Redirect to Elf Bar, see Reuters. IgelRM (talk) 21:27, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Didn't see that there Elf Bar article for some reason. Agree this makes sense as ATD. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 04:29, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete – Nothing that appears notability or encyclopedic content, is not because something exists that is relevant to an article. Svartner (talk) 04:33, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

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The result was delete‎. Star Mississippi 20:51, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Jeff Radwell

Jeff Radwell (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG. Most of the sources are about his company, Canouflet, with few pass mentioned in some journals. Ibjaja055 (talk) 03:23, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Technology, China, Hong Kong, England, California, New York, and Pennsylvania. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 03:39, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi lbjaja055,

Thank you for your careful review and dedication to Wikipedia’s standards. I do want to acknowledge this is my first attempt at creating a biography for a living person, so I may not be fully versed in all nuances of the guidelines. However, I’m committed to refining the page to meet the standards set by WP and would welcome any guidance on improvements. I do respectfully disagree with the proposed deletion and would like to clarify the sources used and their relevance.

The assertion that “most of the sources are about his company” is not entirely accurate. While there are a few references to his company, Camouflet, they represent a minority of the sources and were included primarily because they are recent publications. The majority of references come from reputable scientific journals and independent media outlets that focus on his personal contributions to the field, particularly his pioneering research during the COVID-19 pandemic.

These sources highlight his impactful discoveries and advancements, which have had a verifiable influence on public health and scientific understanding during a critical time. His work meets the notability criteria outlined in WP

through these reliable, independent publications, which underscore his standing in the scientific community and the lasting significance of his contributions.

I hope this clarification provides a fuller picture of the subject’s notability, independent of his company, and trust it will support reconsideration of the deletion proposal. Thank you again for your commitment to maintaining Wikipedia's high standards. Stichodactyla (talk) 19:05, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comments: 3 of the sources cited (3, 6, and 10) are basically press releases. Some of the others are either primary sources or more directly about the company, with only a passing mention of him. Bearian (talk) 03:53, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

  Hi Bearian,

  Thank you for your review and for bringing up these concerns. I've removed the majority of sources that seemed like press releases. There are, however, additional independent, reliable sources. I'm committed to editing, including re-evaluating cited sources and removing or reworking content that may appear overly promotional. Stichodactyla (talk) 02:06, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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• Delete The references appear to be about topics separate from the subject, as stated above. I was unable to find additional references. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 15:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete per WP:NOTINHERITED. AI in medicine is the next big thing. But I can’t see how or why he’s notable. We need much more about him. Bearian (talk) 04:30, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

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Hong Kong related deletions

Etty Lau Farrell

Etty Lau Farrell (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:ANYBIO and WP:GNG, article is a biography of a person whose biggest claim to fame is being married to a notable musician. Sources presented are articles on Perry Farrell and Jane's Addiction (more than a few of which don't even mention Etty at all), primary interviews, passing mentions, etc. The sources with the most dedicated coverage to her here are a Forbes contributor article and a Wordpress blog (neither of which are in any way acceptable for BLP articles, see WP:FORBESCON and WP:WORDPRESS), virtually none of the others establish notability. Given the WP:BLP problems at play here, including numerous sections of unsourced content about the living subject, as well as the aforementioned WP:SIGCOV issues (which WP:BEFORE could not help alleviate, since most of the standalone coverage that a search could turn up is about her commentary on a single controversy from around the same period), this person is unworthy of an article. JeffSpaceman (talk) 00:38, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Redirect to Perry Farrell#personal life per WP:ATD. The only sourcing I could find were all WP:TABLOID articles.4meter4 (talk) 04:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Bands and musicians, Women, Dance, Television, Hong Kong, California, and Washington. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Redirect to Perry Farrell#personal life. I am very familiar with Jane's Addiction so I know this story. Etty Lau does have some of her own accomplishments in dance and music, but usually these are only mentioned briefly in lists of credits for the works of more famous collaborators. She occasionally makes the news for involvement in her husband's management but it tends to be in the form of celebrity gossip (e.g. [10], [11]). She's closer to her own notability than it might appear at first glance, but there is not enough reliable and independent coverage to sustain an encyclopedic article. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:55, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Martin Coetzee

Martin Coetzee (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails to meet notability and significant coverage criteria. Shrug02 (talk) 17:18, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete Fails WP:GNG; WP:SPORTSBASIC no WP:SIGCOV, listings/routine fixtures only. What little MSM coverage there is comprises match stats and short bios listing teams/fixtures. Probably not the Martin Coetzee at University of Pretoria. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:53, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Yasim Murtaza

Yasim Murtaza (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails to meet notability and significant coverage criteria. Shrug02 (talk) 17:20, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete Fails WP:GNG; WP:SPORTSBASIC no WP:SIGCOV, listings/routine fixtures only. What little MSM coverage there is comprises match stats and short bios listing teams/fixtures. There would appear to be a lot of these very routine players with articles! Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:20, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

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The result was delete‎. Star Mississippi 20:51, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Jeff Radwell

Jeff Radwell (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG. Most of the sources are about his company, Canouflet, with few pass mentioned in some journals. Ibjaja055 (talk) 03:23, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Technology, China, Hong Kong, England, California, New York, and Pennsylvania. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 03:39, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi lbjaja055,

Thank you for your careful review and dedication to Wikipedia’s standards. I do want to acknowledge this is my first attempt at creating a biography for a living person, so I may not be fully versed in all nuances of the guidelines. However, I’m committed to refining the page to meet the standards set by WP and would welcome any guidance on improvements. I do respectfully disagree with the proposed deletion and would like to clarify the sources used and their relevance.

The assertion that “most of the sources are about his company” is not entirely accurate. While there are a few references to his company, Camouflet, they represent a minority of the sources and were included primarily because they are recent publications. The majority of references come from reputable scientific journals and independent media outlets that focus on his personal contributions to the field, particularly his pioneering research during the COVID-19 pandemic.

These sources highlight his impactful discoveries and advancements, which have had a verifiable influence on public health and scientific understanding during a critical time. His work meets the notability criteria outlined in WP

through these reliable, independent publications, which underscore his standing in the scientific community and the lasting significance of his contributions.

I hope this clarification provides a fuller picture of the subject’s notability, independent of his company, and trust it will support reconsideration of the deletion proposal. Thank you again for your commitment to maintaining Wikipedia's high standards. Stichodactyla (talk) 19:05, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comments: 3 of the sources cited (3, 6, and 10) are basically press releases. Some of the others are either primary sources or more directly about the company, with only a passing mention of him. Bearian (talk) 03:53, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

  Hi Bearian,

  Thank you for your review and for bringing up these concerns. I've removed the majority of sources that seemed like press releases. There are, however, additional independent, reliable sources. I'm committed to editing, including re-evaluating cited sources and removing or reworking content that may appear overly promotional. Stichodactyla (talk) 02:06, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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• Delete The references appear to be about topics separate from the subject, as stated above. I was unable to find additional references. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 15:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete per WP:NOTINHERITED. AI in medicine is the next big thing. But I can’t see how or why he’s notable. We need much more about him. Bearian (talk) 04:30, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. (non-admin closure) Alpha3031 (t • c) 21:42, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

8 Clearwater Bay Road

8 Clearwater Bay Road (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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I proposed this for deletion with the reason "None of the sources are reliable, independent sources giving significant attention to this building. Databases, sources from companies related to the building, an apartment for sale... are not the sources needed to create an article on the apparently 3033rd highest building in the world. Are there indepth, non-routine, independent sources about this building? Its architecture, controversies, archaeological finds during construction, anything?"

Since then, the poorest sources have been removed, but nothing was done about the fundamental issues. If there is only routine coverage, unreliable sources, and database entries for this building, then it shouldn't have an article. Fram (talk) 14:43, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Architecture and Hong Kong. Fram (talk) 14:43, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

• My vote is Keep as of now. I'm seeing that you're probably concerned about the WP:TOOSOON criteria in this case. However, the article proposed for deletion can be expanded by other users in time. There is no need to tag it with a deletion notice yet. Other Hong Kong building articles such as Sino Plaza and The Westpoint can freely function as stubs when they are based on the same type of primarily database references until additional citations are found. Maybe the

type of tag is more fit in this situation. JeyReydar97 (talk) 15:09, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

No idea why you think TOOSOON would apply to an article about a building from 2005. And WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is never a reason to keep an article. Fram (talk) 09:28, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

• Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. Wikipedia:Notability (geographic features)#Artificial features says:

  Buildings, including private residences, transportation facilities and commercial developments, may be notable as a result of their historic, social, economic, or architectural importance, but they require significant in-depth coverage by reliable, third-party sources to establish notability.

  Sources

  1. "清水灣道8號 擬賣地後登場" [8 Clearwater Bay Road Set to Launch After Proposed Sale]. Hong Kong Economic Times (in Chinese). 2004-10-02.

     The article contains 1,000 Chinese characters. The article notes: "發展商睇好賣地成績而加快推盤步伐，其中由俊和集團發展的彩虹地鐵站上蓋項目，已正式訂命為清水灣道8號，示範單位即將開放予公眾參觀，可望在賣地後隨即開售。由俊和集團於2001年投得彩虹地鐵站上蓋項目，已正式訂命「清水灣道8號」，物業興建進度理想，已建至逾15樓 ..."

     From Google Translate: "Developers are accelerating the pace of launching new properties in light of the good land sales results. Among them, the Choi Hung MTR Station project developed by Chun Wo Group has been officially named as 8 Clear Water Bay Road. The show flat will be open to the public for viewing soon and is expected to be launched for sale immediately after the land sale. The Choi Hung MTR Station project won by Chun Wo Group in 2001 has been officially named as "8 Clear Water Bay Road". The construction progress of the property is ideal and has been built to more than 15 floors."

     The article notes: "以單幢式設計的清水灣道8號，樓高逾50樓，每層6至8夥設計，單位總數共316個。物業基座設有多層停車場及購物商場，住宅由12樓起至頂層57樓連天台單位。分層單位面積由622至982平方呎，分2房、3房及3房連套房間隔，所有單位均設有38呎環保露台，同區罕有。"

     From Google Translate: "8 Clearwater Bay Road is a single-building building with over 50 floors, 6 to 8 units per floor, and a total of 316 units. The property base has a multi-storey car park and a shopping mall, and the residential units range from the 12th floor to the top floor 57th floor with rooftop units. The area of ​​the stratified units ranges from 622 to 982 square feet, with 2 bedrooms, 3 bedrooms and 3 bedrooms with suites. All units have 38-foot environmentally friendly terraces, which are rare in the area."

  2. Chan, Yuen-su 陳阮素 (2012-12-28). "清水灣道8號 高層平租靚景" [8 Clearwater Bay Road: High-rise flat rental with beautiful views]. Sharp Daily (in Chinese).

     The article contains 493 Chinese characters. The article notes: "牛池灣年輕屋苑選擇不多，單幢式物業清水灣道8號，樓齡不足10年，加上位處港鐵彩虹站上蓋，基座商場特設出入口，交通方便就腳，租務承接力特強，但由於盤源不多，因此形成僧多粥少情況。"

     From Google Translate: "There are not many choices for young housing estates in Ngau Chi Wan. The stand-alone property at 8 Clear Water Bay Road is less than 10 years old. In addition, it is located above the MTR Choi Hung Station. The base shopping mall has a special entrance and exit. The transportation is convenient and the rental is very convenient. The undertaking capacity is very strong, but because there are not many disk sources, there is a situation where there are too many monks and too little food."

  3. "清水灣道8號高層貼息兩年" [Two-year interest rate discount for high-rise buildings at 8 Clear Water Bay Road]. Apple Daily (in Chinese). 2005-09-23.

     The article notes: "配合牛池灣地皮拍賣，俊和集團（711）重推同區清水灣道8號高層海景單位，每呎7000元起，發展商夥渣打銀行，提供2年利息津貼。城市理工大學管理碩士課程主任兼財經界專欄作家曾淵滄，最近斥資700萬元，購入該廈50樓E、F相連單位，約1300方尺，每呎約5385元。"

     From Google Translate: "In conjunction with the Ngau Chi Wan land auction, Chun Wo Group (711) re-launched the high-rise sea view unit at 8 Clear Water Bay Road in the same district, starting from HK$7,000 per square foot. The developer partnered with Standard Chartered Bank to provide a two-year interest subsidy. Zeng Yuancang, director of the Master of Management Program at City Polytechnic University and a columnist in the financial industry, recently spent HK$7 million to purchase the connecting unit E and F on the 50th floor of the building, which is approximately 1,300 square feet, at approximately HK$5,385 per square foot."

  4. "清8原價加推兩高層" [Clear 8 original price plus two high-rise buildings]. Sing Tao Daily (in Chinese). 2005-03-05.

     The article notes: "俊和旗下彩虹站上蓋清水灣道8 號重新推出後取得不俗銷情，發展商趁近日樓市升溫，趁勢於本週末加推十六個高層單位應市，平均尺價維持六千八百元，售價未有進一步調升，但較早前所提供的現金回贈優惠，則有所削減，但發展商仍維持會贈送厘印費。"

     From Google Translate: "8 Clear Water Bay Road, above Choi Hung Station owned by Chun Wo, has achieved good sales after its relaunch. The developer has taken advantage of the recent heating up of the property market and launched 16 more high-rise units on the market this weekend. The average price per square foot remains at HK$6,800, the selling price has not been further increased, but the cash rebate offer earlier provided has been reduced, but the developer will still maintain the free printing fee."

  5. "彩虹站新貴 清水灣道8號快推" [The new upstart in Choi Hung Station, 8 Clear Water Bay Road, quick promotion]. Hong Kong Economic Times (in Chinese). 2004-09-30.

     The article notes: "清水灣道8號是俊和由承建商踏足發展商界的第1個項目，相信發展商在設計及用料均會花上不少心思。而從開發商發給地產代理的新圖則中看到，新圖則全部加入環保露台及加入特色單位，以提升物業價值。該項目提供約330個622至977呎的單位，少量特色單位則由1,163至1,840呎，極高層單位可望舊機場一帶海景。"

     From Google Translate: "No. 8 Clear Water Bay Road is Chun Wo's first project as a contractor in the development industry. I believe the developer will put a lot of thought into the design and materials used. From the new plans sent to real estate agents by developers, all new plans include environmentally friendly terraces and special units to increase property value. The project provides approximately 330 units ranging from 622 to 977 feet, with a small number of specialty units ranging from 1,163 to 1,840 feet. The very high-rise units have sea views around the old airport."

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow 8 Clearwater Bay Road (simplified Chinese: 清水湾道8号; traditional Chinese: 清水灣道8號) to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard (talk) 08:19, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

  • yeah Keep the article Bigkhrisdogg (talk) 22:33, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: For assessment of Cunard's sources
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 02:13, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep. Upon extending the article by adding links to reliable secondary sources represented by notable publications such as Sing Tao Daily, Sharp Daily and Hong Kong Economic Times that provide significant, in-depth and continued coverage, Cunard (talk) proved and sustained WP:V and WP:SIGCOV. Helped with WP:PRESERVE in the process. The article should be WP:SALTed in order to be protected against future nominations.

JeyReydar97 (talk) 19:22, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

That's not what salting means. Geschichte (talk) 19:59, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep the article, it looks like well written. The user already create many new wiki articles with reliable sources. Dasomm (talk) 00:19, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete. I just spend Election Day working in the Knickerbocker Plaza, a building almost exactly the same size as this: 40 stories, 400 apartments. In a large city like New York or Hong Kong, there are literally hundreds of such buildings. There is always going to be excited local coverage about a new development, often egged on by developers themselves. We are not a directory of the 156 tallest buildings in every city in the world. Bearian (talk) 10:15, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  There are "hundreds of such buildings" with proper identity and distinctive. However, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS shouldn't be brought up as an argument of deletion in this case. The sources cited in the article sustain WP:NEXIST with a neutral point of view. And I doubt Hong Kong Economic Times is "egged" by developers. JeyReydar97 (talk) 21:15, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  An article which states e.g. "I believe the developer will put a lot of thought into the design and materials used." hardly comes across as neutral, factual reporting... Fram (talk) 08:41, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

  Publications often paraphrase information received from sources of interest (WP:LOCAL in this case). Some of them might indeed be written on a tone inadequate for mainspace articles. However, Cunard has only selected factual information denoting technical details, parties directly implied into the construction process and economic indicators. JeyReydar97 (talk) 14:23, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. We're not seriously calling this significant, independent coverage, are we? This is WP:ROUTINE stuff, sales announcements, and a database page. -- asilvering (talk) 06:14, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  Routine coverage is not a disqualification for notability JeyReydar97 (talk) 16:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: i still don't see a clear consensus to keep or delete (non-admin comment)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JuniperChill (talk) 21:14, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete About as an average of a condo tower as you can get. This gets deleted 9/10 times in any other town as we've done many other times before, and some of the keeps are also forgetting outright that some of the residents don't want a Wikipedia article about their building no matter how many times the local real estate media hype it up. Nate • (chatter) 00:45, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete Whilst the coverage found by Cunard looks a lot, it's rather WP:ROUTINE, e.g. "8 Clear Water Bay Road, above Choi Hung Station owned by Chun Wo, has achieved good sales after its relaunch". For this reason, I don't think this is notable. LibStar (talk) 01:34, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
• Weak delete I'm honestly waffling between weak keep and weak delete here, as the building has been discussed in at least one English-language Hong Kong architectural book (Xue 2016), in part because it's built on top of a transit station and for being a "pencil tower." I don't really mind if this is deleted, as the articles that have been found appear to be transactional real estate articles, and I'm not sure notability is guaranteed here just because it's been in one architectural book. I think my position is that we haven't entirely demonstrated notability, but we might be a source away. SportingFlyer T·C 01:46, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

  The book added by Underwaterbuffalo is the one I found, but the scholarly article is just two listing in two tables. It is helpful, but it doesn't push this into a clear keep. SportingFlyer T·C 08:25, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep The building has been described and used as an example in at least one book and one scholarly article. I have added the references in the article. Underwaterbuffalo (talk) 03:36, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep. Along with the news coverage found by Cunard, a journal article, and now a book I think we have safely arrived at WP:SIGCOV. Diversity of sources is a good indication of notability, and for me this is what has pushed it passed the line into the keep side.4meter4 (talk) 04:19, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Comment. My final vote is keep. WP:SIGCOV was proven and supported. No need for deletion. JeyReydar97 (talk) 15:05, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  You may only !vote once. Please strike one of yours or turn it into a comment. Star Mississippi 15:51, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relisting for evaluation of the new sources.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, voorts (talk/contributions) 22:01, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep I think there is enough independent coverage from reliable sources that is not just routine coverage to establish notability. Marcocanol (talk) 22:28, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

India

Please see: Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/India

Indonesia

Indonesia women's national under-21 volleyball team

Indonesia women's national under-21 volleyball team (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Doesn't appear to meet WP:GNG. Cremastra ‹ u — c › 22:15, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Volleyball, and Indonesia. Cremastra ‹ u — c › 22:15, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete. Fails WP:NSPORTS, WP:ORG, and WP:GNG.4meter4 (talk) 22:20, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
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Delete: This seemed to originally be for the under-18 volleyball team until it was changed to under-21 and information removed for seemingly zero reason (unsourced but still, edit summary was not used). Although even with that, it still doesn't meet WP:GNG. Only sources I could find have passing mentions. Procyon117 (talk) 15:50, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

IShowSpeed's tour of Southeast Asia

IShowSpeed's tour of Southeast Asia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article is very poorly sourced, and constitutes WP:NOTNEWS CitrusHemlock 18:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Internet and Asia. CitrusHemlock 18:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  Note: For the AfDs on the Australia/New Zealand and Europe tours, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/IShowSpeed's tour of Australia and New Zealand. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Leaning Delete Per the sources being mostly just his own live streams. Poor sourcing, only slightly notable. ☩ ^{(Babysharkboss2)} 18:17, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete - Filled with primary and unreliable sources, along with original research. Also seems to be written from a fan's perspective. The tour should be mentioned in IShowSpeed's individual article as there is not enough substance for an individual article. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Just so we keep the info all on one discussion, if anyone knows how to do it, I'm thinking we should merge this AfD discussion with the Europe and Australia/New Zealand tours. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 18:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
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• Delete egregious over-coverage of a streamer, based on primary sources. Walsh90210 (talk) 21:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete. Full of primary sources (i.e. his livestreams, which are definitely NOT appropriate sources). It's already mentioned in his own article, so anything to add should be kept there. Procyon117 (talk) 12:34, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Warren Hue

Warren Hue (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Relying on self-promotional press releases without significant coverage from independent, reliable sources. Fails WP:GNG Pridemanty (talk) 04:27, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Comment I found one good album review here: [12] He also gets a decent brief critical nod in this Pitchfork review on another artist's album on which he was a guest performer. If a few more decent references are found he could be notable. Best.4meter4 (talk) 05:31, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Benison (Beni · talk) 05:59, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep SEVEN pieces in NME - New Musical Express? You're already a shoe-in. Bandwagon's got editorial oversight, it's an RS. Engadget? We're at WP:GNG, folks. Hue's notable in any colour. See what I did there? Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 16:23, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

PS Klabat Jaya Sakti

PS Klabat Jaya Sakti (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG. No evidence of secondary coverage that shows WP:SIGCOV Demt1298 (talk) 16:38, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Weak keep I do see Indonesian articles such as [13] [14] [15] which demonstrate the club is covered in the media on a consistent basis, but I'm struggling with the language barrier. SportingFlyer T·C 18:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
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• Keep per sources above which (appear to) show notability. GiantSnowman 08:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete The sources in the article and this AfD only cover the game results, not the subject itself. As a team playing in the lowest division of football in Indonesia, its notability is limited to its region and it's relatively unknown on a national level. IMO, it doesn't meet the GNG. Ckfasdf (talk) 09:55, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Note that according to WP:SPORTCRIT; Local sources must be independent of the subject, and must provide reports beyond routine game coverage. None of sources in the article and this AfD provide reports beyond routine coverage, such as information about the team itself. Ckfasdf (talk) 10:00, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep – The sources presented are sufficient for WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 16:43, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: The sources appear to meet the required standard of notability and provide credible and sufficient evidence Bernie Clay Bear (talk) 01:01, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete – Per WP:SPORTCRIT, "Local sources must be independent of the subject, and must provide reports beyond routine game coverage." None of the sources above or in general provide significant coverage of the club itself beyond routine game coverage. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 10:13, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kaizenify (talk) 09:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete Those sources are, indeed, routine game coverage - and they're the best of what's out there, TBH. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:SPORTSCRIT. Only one of the sources cited in the article actually works, and it's WP:ROUTINE. Unfortunately, so are the other sources presented by SportingFlyer. There's not enough WP:SIGCOV to support an article at this time.--DesiMoore (talk) 19:30, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  Those aren't the only sources though - a WP:BEFORE search is tricky because there's a few names this club is called, but there's definitely consistent online coverage from at least 2022. SportingFlyer T·C 22:26, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Indonesia Proposed deletions

• Wayang Kampung Sebelah (via WP:PROD on 29 January 2024)

Japan

Atsuko Kawada

Atsuko Kawada (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Delete - my WP:BEFORE turned up no evidence of secondary sources with significant coverage. The corresponding Japanese Wikipedia page did not seem to have any especially substantial references either. I therefore submit that the subject meets neither WP:NACTOR nor WP:NAUTHOR. There may be better sources in Japanese, in which case I would happily rescind my nomination. SunloungerFrog (talk) 15:55, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete. Appears to be a nominal performer. No significant roles and no substantial sources. Fails WP:NACTRESS and WP:GNG.4meter4 (talk) 16:17, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
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Kenichi Nozawa

Kenichi Nozawa (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:SPORTCRIT and WP:GNG as only 19 of the games came in the J League system, namely Japan's third league. Japanese Wikipedia only has two sources, which are primary. Creator is globally locked. Geschichte (talk) 16:43, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment. I notice there are 17 foreign language wiki pages. Do any of those have better sources than the English wiki page?4meter4 (talk) 17:13, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  Considering most of them were created by the same 2-3 people, I doubt it. I had a look and the sources were basically the same. Procyon117 (talk) 12:27, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. GiantSnowman 09:45, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Ryuolivier Iwamoto

Ryuolivier Iwamoto (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Creator is globally locked. Not remotely indicating that WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT is met. Never played on a notable level. 0 J League games, 0 cup games. Played some school matches before retiring; why he retired is described by himself in the Nikkan Sports source in the Japanese Wikipedia. Bunshun described him starting to work in a bank, but he does not meet business bio inclusion criteria. Geschichte (talk) 14:32, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. GiantSnowman 17:42, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Tomohiro Hatta

Tomohiro Hatta (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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BLP. No indication of signifance. BLP prod removed. Fails WP:SIGCOV, WP:BIO. scope_creep^Talk 07:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

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Mana Nakao

Mana Nakao (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Playing 1 cup game for a J League team is a weak claim to notability. Sources in ja:wiki are either primary or match reports, none are in-depth. As such he fails WP:SPORTCRIT and WP:GNG. Geschichte (talk) 12:39, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 03:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. GiantSnowman 18:55, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

List of world champions in NJPW born outside Japan

List of world champions in NJPW born outside Japan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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No evidence that this grouping of characteristics meets WP:LISTN and has received significant attention as a group. Fram (talk) 09:49, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Keep: Looking at the article, I find it relevant to the reader. Additional references will need to be added. ChuyCastañeda (talk) 03:58, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

List of NJPW female wrestlers born outside Japan

List of NJPW female wrestlers born outside Japan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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No evidence that this meets WP:LISTN, a trivial grouping of characteristics Fram (talk) 08:40, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, Wrestling, and Japan. Fram (talk) 08:40, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: Since this is a list of 48 female wrestlers, I think it would be best to change the alphabetical format of the list to a table, and also add additional sources. Maybe when there are 90 or 100, the alphabetical format would make sense. Nikotaku (talk) 09:08, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete, seems to be a very arbitrary set of criteria. Not sure why this exists. — Czello ^(music) 09:42, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete Does not pass WP:NLIST. It is just another WP:FAN article/list. --Mann Mann (talk) 16:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Haruki Umemura

AfDs for this article:

• Articles for deletion/Haruki Umemura
• Articles for deletion/Haruki Umemura (2nd nomination)

Haruki Umemura (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Deleted before. No trace of notability, played 1 cup game and not in any of the J Leagues, creator is globally locked. Geschichte (talk) 20:50, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete and SALT - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. GiantSnowman 10:40, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete – Umemura was deemed non-notable back in the first AfD ten years ago. He must meet GNG only in order for this article to be kept, as NFOOTBALL no longer exists. Even while searching for his name in Japanese, I didn't find any significant coverage. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 11:34, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Keep - So, Umemura didn’t play a lot of soccer due to some serious injuries, but there is an absolute ton of extensive independent coverage both of the injuries cutting his career short, but also of his after football career as the assistant abbot of a Buddhist temple belonging to his wife’s family. I’ve gone ahead and edited the article with all the extra information, sources and line citations. It’s all in Japanese (naturally), but you should be able to use google translate to check it if you are so inclined. I only ended up using like 6-7 of the articles, but there are at least another dozen or so readily apparent via a basic google search of his name (in kanji), and I can only guess many more if I used more precise search terms. With all these in-depth and independent sources, there is no way that this article does not meet general notability, and since, as @Clariniie points out, there is no seperate NFOOTBALL, this is as clear a keep as I’ve come across in a while. Ping to @GiantSnowman as requested. Absurdum4242 (talk) 17:51, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment To add, I can’t find evidence of a prior AfD (I’m guessing just because I don’t know where to look, having only been here 3 months still), but if it was 10 years ago that would have been just after that first injury, so it makes sense it failed because at that stage he’d still played no professional games yet, and had not transformed himself into a monk, so coverage would have been minimum simple due to “too soon”. Absurdum4242 (talk) 17:55, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Haruki Umemura, it's literally linked in the top corner. Please summarise the sources for us. GiantSnowman 18:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Oh, nice, can’t believe I didn’t look there.

They’re all in the article now, I added them all as sources / line citations… just click and translate via google translate. Some shorter articles, but some long articles too, a couple in the 3-5 page range. Here’s the kanji for his name though 梅村 晴貴 - cut and past that into google and you’ll get the full basic search for his name.

It’s late here and I need to sleep, but if you still really need me to go through them for you rather than looking, I’ll have time later tomorrow.

Have a great day over there. Absurdum4242 (talk) 18:56, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Ok, so just the basics since I’m a bit busy this afternoon, but here’s that summary. Source order is as listed on the article.

Sources 2 and 4 - different pages from a 3 page article in a sports magazine on Umemura’s youth career, move to the professionals, and the injury that derailed his career.

Source 3 - single page article in the Shizuoka Shinbun Newspaper talking about Umemura’s participation in the SBS Cup International Youth Soccer tournament during his youth career.

Source 5 - short announcement, in an online soccer site, published by Kodansha, Japan’s largest publisher, announcing his professional signing.

Source 6 - short announcement, in same online site as source 5, announcing his injury and upcoming surgery.

Source 8 - 4 page article in a sports magazine talking about Umemura’s move from professional player, to team staff, to priest, due to the request from his wife’s family to take over their temple, and about his new role in that temple.

Source 9 - 1 page article in same online site as 5 and 6, talking about transition from player, to team staff, and then his two and a half years of training to gain his priest’s license. Also an announcement that he will be involved in a 15th anniversary match for the Toyama team, that I haven’t tracked down yet, as this article talks about it in the future tense.

Hope that helps. Absurdum4242 (talk) 04:20, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Kaoli Isshiki

Kaoli Isshiki (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:SIGCOV. No significant coverage in any of the sources. Two of the three cited sources don't even mention the subject, and the one source that does simply lists her as one of several singers in a chamber choir (she is one of four singers in the soprano section). 4meter4 (talk) 01:59, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Women. 4meter4 (talk) 01:59, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Japan and France. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:31, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
• I looked as promised, don't know yet. Solo appearance at the BBC Proms is at least something. I added some external links to check out. Her repertoire seems off the beaten track, plenty contemporary, and we might want to support that. I found the ref from which most of the article was taken and reworded. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:53, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

  adding: the French article has 24 references. I guess that some are those I also found (now in external links). Will look closer tomorrow, but someone knowing French might be more more successful. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:21, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

  Keep: I haven't looked at those yet, but the English article is now referenced. For me, she is notable enough, having made interesting recordings, with notable ensembles and conductors, and only favourable reviews. She is not a diva-type soprano: that should not be a reason to delete. The article serves many links to music that is not normally in focus, both Baroque as contemporary. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:12, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

  For the French sources, I need help to not misread the French:

  1. [16] This Le Monde article says that she won a prize.
  2. [17] This is a more detailed review of her singing (not just "outstanding").
  3. [18] recital
  4. [19] recording --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:32, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

  @Gerda Arendt I don't think this in-depth enough to meet WP:SIGCOV. The last source is selling her CD and is not independent or significant coverage. The prod-s.com website also lacks independence. The Le Monde article spends half a sentence on her, and is a smaller not all that notable prize. The main prize went to another performer, Richard Rittelman, who deservedly is the focus of that article. Only the anaclase.com source approaches significant coverage (and honestly it isn't long enough to be considered in-depth as it devotes less than a paragraph of the article to her performance). Laurent Cuniot is the main subject of that article not Isshiki. There's not enough here to pass WP:NSINGER or WP:GNG or WP:ANYBIO.4meter4 (talk) 21:15, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

  Is Wikipedia only for those who win first prize? - This is a performer of several unusual recordings, and performances in Paris, Brussels, Proms, ... - Aldeburgh could be added. - Deborah Sasson was kept, but achieved less in the music world. She knew how to attract the press, however. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:52, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt This has nothing to do with the evaluating the worth of prize winners, but evaluating the quality of coverage of Kaoli Isshiki in sources. A half sentence of text is not significant coverage, and if the award were significant we would expect more coverage in independent media or academic publications. We can only build articles based on our notability guidelines which requires that we support articles with extant sources that contain significant coverage. That does mean that what journalists and academics choose to pay attention to directly impacts the types of articles we can create because we can't engage in WP:Original Research. That is both a limitation and a strength of writing on wikipedia. The fact that you have yet to locate any sources directly about Isshiki where she is the primary subject indicates that she isn't notable for wikipedia's purposes. This indicates that a journalist or an academic researcher needs to do some work before we can have an article and it is WP:TOOSOON for wikipedia to write on this person.4meter4 (talk) 22:34, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't believe that our coverage should depend on one reviewer's or academic's personal attention or lack of that, when her contributions to music are facts. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:45, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Then fundamentally you have missed the point of wikipedia's core policies at WP:No original research, WP:VERIFIABILITY, and WP:SIGCOV. We can't build articles largely verified to primary and non-independent sources. Best.4meter4 (talk) 18:20, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Informations about concerts and recordings are facts, not original research. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:56, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

See WP:PSTS which states, Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources, and to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources and primary sources. Secondary or tertiary sources are needed to establish the topic's notability and avoid novel interpretations of primary sources. The issue here is that there is not enough secondary coverage of her performances and recordings to establish the notability of those performances and recordings, and to make sure the "facts" are presented in an encyclopedic and neutral manner. Building an article from primarily primary materials and sources closely connected to the subject does not match the policy language at PSTS. At this point we have found zero secondary or tertiary sources with significant coverage. That makes the topic both not notable, and any article built from the current sources in evidence a violation of PSTS policy on the no original research page. Best.4meter4 (talk) 21:15, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

(Please educate me on my talk, not here. - Edit conflict, response only to the beginning of the comment above.) I didn't write this article, and probably would not have created it. But now it's there. I don't think we need "research" to agree that The Proms are notable, and that singing all of Monteverdi's Vespers (not just solos) is an admirable feat. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:29, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Quoting policy language here isn't about educating you Gerda (although if it does that is a bonus). It's relevant policy language to the discussion. Providing textual evidence for an WP:AFD argument is what we are supposed to do at an AFD for the benefit of all participants. I have provided a detailed source analysis below, showing how none of the references constitute independent significant coverage as required by WP:Notability.`4meter4 (talk) 01:11, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:29, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Liz, could you please notify relevant projects, such as Opera and Women (in Music, in Red), - Song is not relevant. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:48, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Source	Significant?	Independent?	Reliable?	Secondary?	Pass/Fail	Notes
Le Monde	N	Y	Y	Y	N	Non-notable award that receives only a half sentence of coverage in the article. The article is mainly about another person who won a different award which is notable. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
Anaclase.com review	N	Y	Y	Y	N	Article is primarily a review of Laurent Cuniot and the TM+ ensemble at the Maison de la musique. Isshiki is only mentioned in passing, and the paragraph she is in is primarily not about her performance but about the song cycle by Jonathan Harvey. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
recital at prod-s.com	N	N	Y	N	N	The PROD-S company is the production company which produced the recital concert by Ishki. As they are a production team directly connected to the recital, and promote their events on their website this lacks both independence and significance. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
recording	N	N	Y	N	N	Vendor selling Isshiki's CD. Does nothing but verify a recording exists. It does not provide any information on the recording, and the website also lacks independence as it is selling a product featuring the subject. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
KAOLI ISSHIKI at ruhrtriennale.de	Y	N	Y	N	N	Artist bio at the website of Festival der Kunste which employed the singer. These bios are usually written by the subject or their paid talent management agency. Lacks independence. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
Ensemble William Byrd	N	N	Y	N	N	Isshiki is listed as one of four sopranos in a chamber choir on the website of the choir itself. This is either neither independent or significant coverage. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
KAOLI ISSHIKI at ludusmodalis.com	Y	N	Y	N	N	Artist bio at the website of the Ludus Modalis website which employs the singer. These bios are usually written by the subject or their paid talent management agency. Lacks independence. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
Review at musica-dei-donum.org	Y	Y	N	Y	N	Review from a WP:SELFPUBLISHED non-notable blog. Not a reliable source. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
Philharmonie de Paris	N	N	Y	N	N	Performance archive of the Philharmonie de Paris. Verifies she performed with the orchestra in a primary source, but this is neither significant or independent. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
BBC Proms	N	N	Y	N	N	Performance archive of the BBC proms. Verifies she performed with the BBC proms in a primary source, but this is neither significant or independent. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
Voce.de	N	?	N	N	N	Voce.de is a WP:SELFPUBLISHED personal website of Hans-Josef Kasper. Not reliable. May or may not be independent. No way to tell with a self-published source. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
Brusseks Philharmonic	N	N	Y	N	N	Website of the Brussels Philharmonic. It's the orchestra's performance archive and is both a primary source and lacks independence from the subject as the orchestra employed her. Can be used to verify the performance but is not usable towards proving notability. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
Res Musica review	N	Y	Y	Y	N	This is an independent secondary source, but Isshiki's performance is only given a half sentence of attention. It is not in-depth enough to be considered significant. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
conservatoire-orchestre.caen.fr/	N	N	Y	N	N	This is an advertisement with ticket sale pricing and links for purchasing. It is not a review, not independent, and not significant coverage. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
musicweb-international.com	N	Y	Y	Y	N	This is an independent review of album on which Isshiki performs on a couple songs as a guest artist. However, her performance was not reviewed at all by the reviewer who did not mention her at all in the review. She is only listed as a performer on the couple songs to which she contributed. Without any text reviewing her work, this is not in-depth coverage. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
French Anthologies	N	Y	Y	Y	N	This is an independent review in a reliable secondary source. However, the review of Isshiki's performance is only a half sentence long. It's not in-depth enough to constitute significant coverage. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
www.recordsinternational.com	N	N	Y	N	N	This is the website of a record label selling one its albums. Not independent nor significant. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
Total qualifying sources					0	There must be multiple qualifying sources to meet the notability requirements

I am travelling, and busy with other subjects, sorry for a late reply. Thank you for diligent analysis of sources, 4meter4. My issue is that it sees every item only on its own, not in context.

Of course there are, in general, biographies around that were written by the person in question or by a publicity specialist, but in this case I see the things mentioned there (studies in Europe, award, performances, recordings) also supported by trustworthy other references. I also don't see any items in the biography (which is repeated by other sites) that I'd consider far-fetched or sensational claims.

I see a singer performing in high quality and in teams, be it ensemble or with other soloists. I like that approach. I see her performing the lesser-performed music, both old and new, and would like to showcase that instead of deleting it. As John pointed out (below), there are different ways to establish notability according to Wikipedia:Notability (music). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:49, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

• I found this Amazon listing which has her credited on all but one track. The main artist seems to be Pascal Dusapin. Then I found that her artist page at Amazon has four albums listed, one of which is under her own name. Here is another listing, from the Ensemble Vocal de Pontoise.Wikipedia:Notability (music) says our benchmarks for a standalone article on a musician include "Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable)." Maguelone (her record label) claims to have released work by Reynaldo Hahn and André Jolivet, who are independently notable, and to have been around since 1993. Overall, (and the coverage of her prize in a major French media source counts too) I think that this artist (just) meets WP:NMG, so I think this is a (fairly weak) keep from me. John (talk) 20:59, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I'm giving this discussion another relisting. But right now, I see no support for deletion other than the nominator.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:53, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete: The article lacks mention of significant coverage or critical acclaim. There is also no information provided regarding the subject's record sales, chart placements, or awards, despite claims to the contrary. Fails WP:SIGCOV.--— MimsMENTOR ^talk 07:44, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  Record sales, chart placements: not relevant for classical music. Recordings are, and recordings are there. Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:03, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The SNG is tied to the notability of the record label. Albums made with an obscure small record label probably aren't notable. It's not like she recorded for a significant classical music label like Decca, Naxos, or Deutsche Gramophone which have international distribution. We don't even have an article on the label she recorded with which is telling. It looks to me like she is only active with a tiny French independent record label that doesn't appear all that notable. 4meter4 (talk) 17:49, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relisting. Comments on the sources provided would be helpful.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, voorts (talk/contributions) 02:14, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete; fails WP:GNG, WP:NBIO, WP:NMUSIC. I find 4meter4's source analysis convincing. Dclemens1971 (talk) 21:47, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Reverting my close, and relisting for a clearer consensus, per the nom's request.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 19:04, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete: Most of the sources in the Fr article are concert listings, FNAC is an online store... I don't consider any of them RS. I don't see notability. Oaktree b (talk) 22:44, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Scan for Korea-related AfDs

Korea

List of wars involving South Korea

List of wars involving South Korea (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Propose redirecting List of wars involving South Korea to List of wars involving Korea#South Korea, just like List of wars involving Korea#North Korea. Follow-up to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of wars involving North Korea (nominated by Cortador), which resulted in the same solution on 3 November 2024. NLeeuw (talk) 15:47, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, Lists, Korea, North Korea, and South Korea. NLeeuw (talk) 15:47, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  Pinging other participants of previous discussion for follow-up: @Mikrobølgeovn, MolecularPilot, and My very best wishes:. NLeeuw (talk) 15:49, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

This outcome (the merger) was most unfortunate. Although Korea has been a divided country since the 1940s, editors seem adamant to treat it as a single country. We don't we give Sudan and South Sudan the same treatment, for good measure? Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 15:52, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

WP:OTHERSTUFF Cortador (talk) 15:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Mikrobølgeovn has a point, but I think the comparison of Korea with Sudan and South Sudan does not work well. Below I've presented some thoughts on comparing Yemen and Korea, curious what editors think of that. NLeeuw (talk) 16:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

•  Comment: One of the arguments used by nom of previous AfD was This also has precedent e.g. East and West Germany don't have separate pages for their wars, and neither do North and South Vietnam or North and South Yemen. The first half is true, but not the second: We've got List of wars involving North Yemen, List of wars involving South Yemen, as well as List of wars involving Yemen. However, given the significant amount of WP:OVERLAP between the three, we might consider the North and South lists WP:REDUNDANTFORKs, to be merged into List of wars involving Yemen. (The obvious difference being that North and South Yemen no longer exist, only a united Yemen, at least officially; by contrast, a united Korea no longer exists, but a North and South Korea do, despite claiming the whole peninsula for themselves.) But that would be a good idea for a follow-up if this AfD has been closed as nominated. NLeeuw (talk) 15:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete. As with the list of wars involving North Korea, declaring historical states on the territory of modern South Korea (like Goryeo) to be predecessors to South Korea specifically is questionable. There's currently no need for a separate article. Cortador (talk) 16:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

We should have a main one for Korea, with links to separate lists for North Korea and South Korea. Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 18:02, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I am open to this alternative proposal of three separate lists:

1. Korea until 1948
2. North Korea since 1948
3. South Korea since 1948

@Shazback below seems to be suggesting the same thing.

If we do choose for this alternative, I would recommend including the words until 1948 and since 1948 in the article titles just to make clear to both readers and editors what the scope of each list is, and to prevent creating WP:REDUNDANTFORKs again. Cortador was right that we shouldn't duplicate content, but merging all three lists into one might not be the best solution. Also for readability, navigability, and categorisation purposes, three separate lists would solve several practical problems, including the untenable idea that there is still a unified Korean state as of 2024. NLeeuw (talk) 20:49, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep: Very surprised by the outcome of the previous AfD, which I did not see/participate in. I would be surprised to be directed to a page covering wars of multiple states if I was looking for either one.
  My suggestion would for "List of wars involving Korea" to be a disambiguation page with 3 pages listed: "List of wars involving states of the Korean peninsula (pre-1948)"; "List of wars involving North Korea"; "List of wars involving South Korea". Both the latter pages only include post-1948 conflicts, and can have a section at the beginning stating that the state claim succession to pre-1948 states if necessary.
  This follows the most common way people view and analyse the world when considering wars (by state), avoids duplication by clearly separating historical lists where states did not match current territories (e.g., whatever criteria are most relevant for inclusion can be decided, for instance to consider the Ungjin Commandery without needing to worry if either South or North Korea claim it as a predecessor state), while remaining clear link targets that can be found easily. Shazback (talk) 19:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Most of these articles list every war that happened at a location, instead of the current nation. List of wars involving the United States doesn't list the wars that happened there between native Americans or others before the nation was officially founded. Dream Focus 18:26, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  Perhaps because the United States does not claim succession of those states? Plenty of other articles list them by geography / include predecessor states to the current country (e.g., List of wars involving Poland, List of wars involving Vietnam). Shazback (talk) 18:31, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  As a general rule, we do not create lists or categories based on the geographic location where a war or battle took place, as this is usually WP:NONDEFINING. See WP:MILMOS#BATTLESIN. These lists are about belligerents involved in a conflict, not countries etc. where the conflict took place. Therefore, there are no battles "involving the United States" prior to the American Revolutionary War. NLeeuw (talk) 02:10, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  Not sure I follow / understand fully your comment. Both pages I shared include plenty of elements that occured prior to the current constitution / establishment of the Third Polish Republic or the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. Many of these are lineage / predecessor states that had claim over the general area of the current state (not identical borders). Furthermore, a cursory / quick look at both these lists as well as the list of wars involving the United States shows they include cases were the state is not a belligerent per se: Bleeding Kansas in the USA list, the Later Trần rebellion (1407–1414) in the Vietnam list, and the Januszajtis putsch in the Poland list. I'd also note that World War I is listed as a conflict involving Poland, despite Poland not existing at any point during the war as a clear indication geography is considered when compiling these lists. These lists are not pages I like / find very useful exactly because of the points made in the WP: pages you linked. When looking at wars of Country A, my personal expectation is to see only the wars of what is commonly understood to be Country A in current geopolitics (i.e., for North Korea, 1948+, for the USA 1775/6+, for Poland 1918+, for Vietnam 1976+). But that's not how many other people like it, as they expect to see predecessor states' wars included in these lists. Shazback (talk) 02:49, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  My comment was a reply to both Dream Focus and you. I'm not necessarily disagreeing, just adding some thoughts and pointing to some relevant policies and guidelines. NLeeuw (talk) 11:20, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Malaysia

IShowSpeed's tour of Southeast Asia

IShowSpeed's tour of Southeast Asia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article is very poorly sourced, and constitutes WP:NOTNEWS CitrusHemlock 18:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Internet and Asia. CitrusHemlock 18:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  Note: For the AfDs on the Australia/New Zealand and Europe tours, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/IShowSpeed's tour of Australia and New Zealand. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Leaning Delete Per the sources being mostly just his own live streams. Poor sourcing, only slightly notable. ☩ ^{(Babysharkboss2)} 18:17, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete - Filled with primary and unreliable sources, along with original research. Also seems to be written from a fan's perspective. The tour should be mentioned in IShowSpeed's individual article as there is not enough substance for an individual article. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Just so we keep the info all on one discussion, if anyone knows how to do it, I'm thinking we should merge this AfD discussion with the Europe and Australia/New Zealand tours. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 18:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Travel and tourism, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:11, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete egregious over-coverage of a streamer, based on primary sources. Walsh90210 (talk) 21:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete. Full of primary sources (i.e. his livestreams, which are definitely NOT appropriate sources). It's already mentioned in his own article, so anything to add should be kept there. Procyon117 (talk) 12:34, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Mahsuri National Secondary School

Mahsuri National Secondary School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 15:43, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Education, Schools, and Malaysia. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 15:54, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 November 22. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 16:03, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Redirect to List of schools in Kedah. It is in that list under the name SMK Mahsuri (currently a redirect to Mahsuri National Secondary School) which is the school's acronym name.4meter4 (talk) 19:01, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Ma'ahad Muhammadi Lelaki

Ma'ahad Muhammadi Lelaki (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 15:40, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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La Salle Secondary School, Kota Kinabalu

La Salle Secondary School, Kota Kinabalu (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 15:37, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Keep - I don't think there is sufficient deletion rationale. This editor has nominated a large number of schools quickly - each one minutes after the last, which does not seem like nearly enough time spent of an WP:BEFORE. It has sourcing, and it needs searching, but I am not willing to spend considerable time searching for sources in a language I don't speak, when the only rationale given for all of these is "Fails WP:NSCHOOL" (copied and pasted on all the others). I would be willing to spend more time if the the nom. will show how they have conducted a WP:BEFORE and analysed sources available elsewhere for this prima facie notable school. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 15:55, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  The article, by content, to me is just WP:MILL. A search of "smk la salle kota kinabalu" on Google showed me no source featuring the school primarily on itself, and it just mentioned along other schools. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 17:43, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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La Salle School, Petaling Jaya

La Salle School, Petaling Jaya (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 15:35, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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La Salle School, Klang

La Salle School, Klang (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 15:32, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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Kolej Sultan Abdul Hamid

Kolej Sultan Abdul Hamid (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 15:16, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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Kolej Yayasan Saad

Kolej Yayasan Saad (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 15:20, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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Kajang High School

Kajang High School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 14:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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King Edward VII School, Taiping

King Edward VII School, Taiping (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 14:59, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Keep. Passes WP:NSCHOOL. One of the oldest schools in Malaysia, large numbers of significant alumni, clearly notable. Could do with a bit of a clean-up though.Spiralwidget (talk) 15:34, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  The school is not inherent of notability because it was established early per WP:ORGSIG. The school is not inheritable of notability because it has notable alumni per WP:INHERITORG. A source about reunion celebration did not provide in-depth coverage on the school itself. A source featured interviews of alumni is irrelevant to the Smart School project. By disregarding sources of list of notable alumni and of irrelevant as said, there is no proper notability here. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 17:13, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Procedural keep - I don't think there is sufficient deletion rationale. This editor has nominated a large number of schools quickly - each one minutes after the last, which does not seem like nearly enough time spent of an WP:BEFORE. It has sourcing, and it needs searching, but I am not willing to spend considerable time searching for sources in a language I don't speak, when the only rationale given for all of these is "Fails WP:NSCHOOL" (copied and pasted on all the others). I would be willing to spend more time if the the nom. will show how they have conducted a WP:BEFORE and analysed sources on the page and those available elsewhere. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 15:52, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep. What notability bright line does this Malaysian high school fail? Its longevity and number of citations argue for its being considered notable. This school has fully three times the number of citations than I found at other example Wikipedia articles on Sekolah Menengah Kebangsaan ("national high school", although "national" doesn't seem to be a particular distinction, as there are many), which are not (so far) being challenged on notability grounds, although I cannot vouch for the relevancy of all of the citations. Dhtwiki (talk) 02:32, 23 November 2024 (UTC) (edited 02:34, 23 November 2024 (UTC))

  I have discarded few non-notable alumni, few school self-published sources, an alumnus own article and a poorly referenced smart school project. The remaining two sources are just about alumni reunion with coverage on statement about future of school rather than about the school itself. Please have a look. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 05:24, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

  Analysis of citations: Primary sources do not provide WP:V and WP:N, see also WP:WPSCHOOLS/AG#OS. Alumni reunion and donation did not provide in-depth coverage. A project on school cited with primary source and irrelevant news. This one could be promotional as an announcement without being any facts for the school. These are cited for non-notable alumni which were practically exclusionary, and many of them never mentioned the school also. Self-published source on biography should be excluded. This one featured the primary school, the secondary school is not inherent of notability. Finally, a quality citation just in.

  I would like to quote concern from another discussion WP:Articles for deletion/SMK Seri Kembangan,

  "How does that even make it special?"

  Ong Kai Jin (talk) 11:30, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

  I am strongly resisted on your acceptance of these citations. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 12:21, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

  I disagree your comparison on other schools for not being challenged. A lot of them were PRODed at once in [20]. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 12:26, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

References

King George V School, Seremban

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King George V School, Seremban (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 15:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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KOSPINT

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KOSPINT (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 15:24, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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Klang High School

Klang High School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 15:09, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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Green Road National Secondary School

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• Articles for deletion/Green Road National Secondary School (2nd nomination)

Green Road National Secondary School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 14:26, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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English College Johore Bahru

English College Johore Bahru (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 14:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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Damansara Utama National Secondary School

Damansara Utama National Secondary School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 14:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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Convent Taiping

Convent Taiping (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 14:13, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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Cempaka Schools

Cempaka Schools (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 14:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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Bukit Mewah National Secondary School

Bukit Mewah National Secondary School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 13:59, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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Bukit Mertajam High School

Bukit Mertajam High School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 13:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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Alam Shah Science Secondary School

Alam Shah Science Secondary School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 13:38, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Procedural keep - I don't think there is sufficient deletion rationale. This editor has nominated a large number of schools quickly - this one was 11 minutes after the previous which does not seem like nearly enough time spent of an WP:BEFORE. It has sourcing, and it needs searching, but I am not willing to spend considerable time searching for sources in a language I don't speak, when the only rationale given for all of these is "Fails WP:NSCHOOL" (copied and pasted on all the others). I would be willing to spend more time if the the nom. will show how they have conducted a WP:BEFORE and analysed sources on the page and those available elsewhere. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 15:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  The reliable sources covered about basic information on gender, name change and national exam grades of some years. These are enough to provide in-depth coverage and to establish notability.

  The curriculum section sources are irrelevant. One of it mentioned the school just because of a student personal comment on an competition event, and it is just among comments from others. Schools do not inherit individual achievement or it would be promotional. Another source was also a passing mention on the school where three entrepreneurs were from the same school. A source about a debate competition featured primarily on another school. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 16:48, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Ahmad Boestamam National Secondary School

Ahmad Boestamam National Secondary School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NSCHOOL. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 13:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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Melissa Tan

Melissa Tan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Other than winning the national Miss Universe in 2006, nothing of note can be found on her since then. – robertsky (talk) 03:02, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Comment. We certainly don't have to accept this because it is just an essay, but Wikipedia:WikiProject Beauty Pageants/Notability (beauty pageant participants) states that national pageant winners in the big four pageants (of which Miss Universe is one) are generally presumed to be notable. Meaning that its likely WP:SIGCOV exists. Given the year she won, it is possible the coverage was more offline than online as it was in the weird time period where everything hadn't yet shifted over even though the internet was up and running. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:10, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  Well... I tried doing WP:BEFORE through wikipedia library, and could only find two articles in 2007:

  • Civic thrill for beauty queen: [New Sunday Times Edition]

  Summary: About her purchase of Honda Civic.

  • Celeb style [Malay Mail]

  Summary: Interview about her fashion style.

  – robertsky (talk) 04:08, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

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I’m not surprised. The pageant would have not been covered in the UK or the United States but would have been covered in Southeast Asia. The best sources are probably offline (at that time; maybe digitized now?) newspapers in Malaysia, and I don’t believe most are available through The Wikipedia Library.4meter4 (talk) 05:41, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

The above two articles were accessed through ProQuest in The Wikipedia Library and are from the two of the major newspapers in the country at that time. – robertsky (talk) 06:04, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, and they are both English sources which tends to cover a different type of content scope targeted more toward English speaking expats. I would expect better coverage in the Maylay language papers.4meter4 (talk) 06:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Naaim Firdaus

Naaim Firdaus (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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The subject has only played in two matches to date and this is just a stats stub as things stand with a very weak claim to notability. I found Borneo Post, Harian Metro and Makan Bola but all of these are trivial mentions. If nothing better is found, then this fails WP:SPORTBASIC pure and simple. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:36, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 19:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. GiantSnowman 21:52, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Farid Azmi

Farid Azmi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Played a total of 11 minutes in Malaysia's top tier football league. BEFORE search shows nothing. Does not pass WP:GNG. Kline • talk • contribs 01:18, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 03:44, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete. Fails WP:SPORTSBASIC.4meter4 (talk) 04:44, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Speedy delete, does not present a credible claim to significance or notability. Geschichte (talk) 10:14, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete. Doesn't pass any notability guidelines. Mekomo (talk) 10:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
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• Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. GiantSnowman 21:52, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Zazrir Naim

Zazrir Naim (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Played a total of 103 minutes in the top tier of Malaysia football over 3 years. A check for sources found 2 articles total, only mentioning him in passing mention. Does not pass WP:GNG. Kline • talk • contribs 00:59, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 03:44, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete. Fails WP:SPORTSBASIC.4meter4 (talk) 04:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete. Doesn't pass WP:SPORTSBASIC or WP:GNG. Mekomo (talk) 10:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
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• Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. GiantSnowman 21:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

The Masked Singer Malaysia (season 3)

The Masked Singer Malaysia (season 3) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Contested redirect. The article is technically too old to be draftified. A WP:BEFORE search failed. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 15:06, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete per nomination. Achmad Rachmani (talk) 15:14, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete as per nomination. But if it somehow survives, can the closer please tag the talk page with appropriate wikiprojects please. - X201 (talk) 08:35, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Chin Gouk

Chin Gouk (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Marked for notability concerns since 2014. Most of the sources are articles by her rather than third party coverage to meet WP:BIO or WP:PROF. Low citation count as well. LibStar (talk) 23:28, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Comment. Not seeing much grounds for encyclopedic notability here, looks like a meritorious but not unusual career so far. Plant pathology citations are generally fairly low in my experience, but there's only a single coauthored paper with moderate citations (59) that I can see. Espresso Addict (talk) 19:03, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete: Per nom, most of the references are not significant and fail WP:GNG Kaizenify (talk) 05:25, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Azlan Mohd Lazim

Azlan Mohd Lazim (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Notability-tagged for 11 years. Fails WP:ONEEVENT. It's hard to understand why a biography about this person (not that it is a real biography at the moment) is warranted. Geschichte (talk) 22:23, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

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Donevan Chew

Donevan Chew (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Pretty obvious promotional article with sentences that could only be written by the article subject or someone they paid to write about them "more importantly, is the owner of four pika Chews (three sons, one daughter)". The only reference is an 3-sentence official blurb, probably also publicist-written. He won a Clio Award, but I am skeptical of that being a real claim of notability. It looks like there were 1,215 Clio Awards given in that year alone. Here2rewrite (talk)

• Delete: Seems to be a marketing exec, so sourcing I find is all PR-ish items [21]. Not sure what a pika is, his children? Regardless, delete for a lack of sourcing. Oaktree b (talk) 16:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
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• Delete per WP:TNT and WP:GNG. It’s difficult to take this seriously when the lead talks about his hair. No reliable sources, no article. Bearian (talk) 06:10, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

High Commission of Malaysia, London

High Commission of Malaysia, London (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article based on a primary source and directory listing. No third party coverage to meet WP:ORG. LibStar (talk) 22:44, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete Fails WP:GNG. Diplomatic premises are rarely individually notable. AusLondonder (talk) 12:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• Redirect to List of diplomatic missions in London#Embassies and High Commissions in London where it is mentioned, as has been done for every other non-notable embassy and high commission in London brought to AfD or PROD. Thryduulf (talk) 14:51, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• Merge to Malaysia–United Kingdom relations. @Thryduulf the embassy is also on the List of diplomatic missions of Malaysia. I think we could actually save all the content on the relations page as a merge target which would be better than redirecting to one of several possible list pages. 4meter4 (talk) 03:29, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

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Embassy of Malaysia, The Hague

Embassy of Malaysia, The Hague (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Based on primary sources. A google news search only yields the primary source of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Malaysia. Fails WP:ORG. LibStar (talk) 22:40, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Merge to Malaysia–Netherlands relations#Diplomacy per WP:ATD. The Embassy would reasonably be covered in that article.4meter4 (talk) 03:33, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Merge as above, the usual solution for articles on non-notable embassies. Mangoe (talk) 03:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Proposed deletions

• Wawa Zainal (via WP:PROD on 9 September 2023)

Nepal

Indra Rajya Laxmi Pragya Puraskar

Indra Rajya Laxmi Pragya Puraskar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Reviewed during NPP. No indication of notability under GNG or SNG. Appears to be some type of award but there are no sources which really cover it much less GNG sources. North8000 (talk) 18:36, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Keep for historic reasons. There are plenty of notable people from Nepal who were recognized after getting this award. It has been stopped because of royal name attached to it after Nepal entered into the republic era. Plenty of sources are available if you search in native language (i.e. Nepali - इन्द्रराज्यलक्ष्मी प्रज्ञा–पुरस्कार) nirmal (talk) 04:00, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Elephant football

Elephant football (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG. No secondary sources that shows WP:SIGCOV Demt1298 (talk) 20:25, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

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• There appears to be some coverage of the topic of elephants playing football, e.g. Newsweek, Reuters, The Independent, AS, News9, as well as some books, e.g. [22] & [23]. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:40, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete Elephants are sadly abused in many ways, but the fact that this happens doesn't make it a specific notable topic. If anything there can be a sentence at Elephant polo saying they are forced to play other sports, but these sources don't justify an article here. Reywas92^Talk 21:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
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• Keep or perhaps find a suitable WP:ATD such as a merge to Captive elephants. There is coverage on this (both as an event and people protesting it) in secondary sources: [24], [25], [26], [27], [28], [29], [30] Best.4meter4 (talk) 02:36, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
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• Redirect to Captive elephants as above. GiantSnowman 08:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: It makes no sense to redirect to captive elephants. If such logic is applied all sports involing animals will be affected. There is no harm in keeping and incubating the article. Such sports is basically for tourism activities rather than for hard core sport activity. Also as 4meter4 pointed out, there is WP:SIGCOV as well. nirmal (talk) 04:21, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• KeepAs per 4meter4 and BeanieFan11 there is WP:SIGCOV for this.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 18:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: Per all of the sources, identified by 4meter4. The subject has enough wp:sigcov for a standalone. Kaizenify (talk) 09:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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Nepal Proposed deletions

• Nepal Janahit Party (via WP:PROD on 5 February 2024)

Pakistan

Rab Nawaz Choudhary

Rab Nawaz Choudhary (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Only notable for involvement in a single incident. The article on this, 1959 Canberra shootdown, does not mention him (if it did I would have reirected. Is it even worth a merge? TheLongTone (talk) 16:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Keep : He is mentioned in The Print and Dawn coverage.--Gul Butt (talk) 18:53, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete. Fails WP:GNG. Those sources which are viewable such as The Print and Dawn coverage are all trivial passing mentions and do not count towards notability per WP:SIGCOV. I would have supported a merge if I had been able to verify the content, but I am not having any luck finding anything on this man in WP:RS. With the article linking to amazon as a vendor it doesn't make me confident that the source are accurately represented.4meter4 (talk) 18:54, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep A very much notable individual in Pakistan's military history. WP:BIO1E states that the if event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate. This is a speedy keep. Muneebll (talk) 23:40, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep per Muneebll.  samee  converse  20:03, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

2024 Alleged Lahore college rape case

2024 Alleged Lahore college rape case (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails NEVENT. no WP:INDEPTH coverage. and IMO its, WP:TOOSOOON and WP:THEREISNORUSH

Given the substantial evidence refuting the alleged incident, I propose that we consider the Deletion of this article based on several Wikipedia guidelines:

1. Verifiability: The claims made in the article are contradicted by official reports and statements from recognized authorities such as the FIA and CM Punjab, as reported by Dawn News https://www.dawn.com/news/1865944 and The Nation https://www.nation.com.pk/17-Oct-2024/cm-maryam-clears-mist-on-fake-student-rape-allegations, questioning the verifiability of the current content.

2. BLP: The article's content could potentially harm the reputations of living persons based on unverified and disputed claims, violating the BLP policy that demands rigorous standards for sourcing in contentious cases.

3. NPOV: The article may fail to maintain a neutral point of view, as it presents disputed claims without sufficient context from authoritative sources that challenge these claims.

4. Notability: The ongoing disputes and contradictions regarding the facts suggest that the incident may not meet the general notability guideline, which requires significant coverage by reliable sources.

These concerns collectively suggest that the article may not meet Wikipedia's content standards and could merit deletion or significant revision. I recommend opening a discussion for deletion to carefully consider these issues within the community, Furthermore, Wikipedia is not a newscast of information, much less false or speculation. Jinnllee90 (talk) 01:03, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 November 22. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 01:18, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete - WP:NEWSEVENT An alleged rape that didn't happen. Or did it? The perpetrator was the school security guard. Or he wasn't. Protests and alleged police brute force and rubber bullets, tear gas, etc. There was an investigation, with mixed findings. The family of the alleged victim said her injuries were actually from a fall at home. — Maile (talk) 03:28, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
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• Delete – The article does not meet Wikipedia's notability, verifiability, and neutrality standards. The allegations have been refuted by reliable sources. Additionally, it risks violating the BLP policy by presenting unverified claims about living individuals. Ainty Painty (talk) 12:56, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment. As an editor who has been keeping their eyes on this one for a while, this is a more complicated subject than it would first appear. Firstly, even if the event is not notable, I would claim that the response was- protesting, activism, and unrest, which received a lot of coverage internationally. Secondly, I would claim that there is a really significant possibility here of people with significant political power and interest in keeping Punjab College's name clean influencing people to give a certain outcome- notice that although the father of the victim has spoken and said it was an accident, the victim herself has not, and consider power dynamics in Pakistan between men and women. Also consider that the security footage has been deleted as per major sources, and that the system in Pakistan may have a significant risk of people in positions of power being able to use their influence in such a way. I am not accusing anyone of anything here, it is just a comment. I would also suggest that a lot of edits on the page have been done by Pakistani IP addresses with very standard ChatGPT-esque comments and attempts to delete- I was interested to see that somebody finally found the correct place to nominate the article for deletion. I think this is all worth bearing in mind when coming to a conclusion on this article. However, the counter argument is that Wikipedia is not a place for primary research, and we are not here to interpret the sources as much as we are to summarise them. As it is, the secondary sources have dismissed the allegations and this is a bit of a null story which deletion would not be an undue response to. I hope I have provided some context and I am being balanced to both sides of this discussion.Spiralwidget (talk) 15:27, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete Very much on WP:BLPCRIME concerns and a wholly unclear narrative; either we have it right and proper or we don't at all, especially considering the current issues regarding WMF. Nate • (chatter) 17:17, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete Alleged mean not verified. Its hoax.--Gul Butt (talk) 18:35, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete while I can appreciate Spiralwidget's thoughtful perspective, I think in this case WP:BLPCRIME issues and conflicting sourcing issues as relates to WP:Verifiability make it impossible for us to have an article at this time.4meter4 (talk) 19:26, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Usama Leghari

Usama Leghari (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Another hyperlocal politician who fails at WP:NPOLITICIAN as a small town MP, fails at WP:BIO and WP:GNG. The article does not demonstrate or verify his notoriety. Even the reference are of low reliability Jinnllee90 (talk) 19:33, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 November 21. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 19:52, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
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• Keep: Has presumed notability under WP:NPOL and Wikipedia:Notability (people)/Subnational politicians as a member of a major subnational assembly, since Pakistan is a federal polity. Results can easily be verified at https://ecp.gov.pk/general-elections-2024 (apparently the results are stored in Google Drive?) Helpful Raccoon (talk) 20:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: According to WP:NSUBPOL members of the provincial and territorial assemblies, including the East Pakistan Provincial Assembly, are presumed notable.--Ameen Akbar (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep as already mentioned, WP:NPOL is met. The circumstances of the nomination are also slightly suspicious. Walsh90210 (talk) 23:39, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• It is also developing whether or not the politician Gunnar Norberg makes sense for him to exist on Wikipedia, I suppose Usama Leghari, does not meet the parameters of permanence here. Jinnllee90 (talk) 23:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  Difference being that Norberg was mayor of a town of 3,000 people, hardly notable comparatively, and was never a politician of a subnational party, while Leghari is. Procyon117 (talk) 13:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep member of a provincial parliament in federal system, satisfies WP:NPOL. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 10:01, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep He is an elected member of province assembly.--Gul Butt (talk) 18:29, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep. He is MPA.--گل زیب (talk) 08:15, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: Meets WP:NPOL. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 09:51, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Eleven Star FC

Eleven Star FC (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG. Club only existed for one season and does not have WP:SIGCOV Demt1298 (talk) 15:26, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Redirect to List of football clubs in Pakistan – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 23:05, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
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• Redirect as above. GiantSnowman 17:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Redirect as above.--Gul Butt (talk) 18:37, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Redirect to List of football clubs in Pakistan.--گل زیب (talk) 08:21, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Muhabbat Gumshuda Meri

Muhabbat Gumshuda Meri (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Can't establish notability. Fails GNG. Wikibear47 (talk) 15:56, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Keep per WP:HEY, I've added plenty of reliable news sources and reviews in article such as BBC News, Independent Urdu, 24 News, India Times, DAWN etc. Siginificant coverage found on google. It sometimes spells as Mohabbat Gumshuda Meri in google sources. Siasat Daily of India and The News International of Pakistan called it one of the trending show in India [31] and Pakistan [32].Libraa2019 (talk) 16:43, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete - The significant coverage being claimed is not reliable. Non-bylined pieces falling under WP:NEWSORGINDIA, mentions, and churnalism do not count towards notability. If the show was worthy of notice, the press would have written more in-depth than a brief mention, mention in a reference about an actress, etc. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:40, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
• Hello; I am opposed to this being deleted: notable cast, notable creator, coverage for verification. https://www.youlinmagazine.com/story/muhabbat-gumshuda-meri-a-refreshing-tale-of-teenage-romance/MjUyOA== Review in Youlin (bylined) for example. A redirect (and merge) either to the director or to the list of the programs broadcast by the network but a Keep would not shock me [is also good, see below]. The coverage mentioned by Libraa10 is also an indication. Thank you.-Mushy Yank. 23:02, 17 November 2024 (UTC) (edited)

The reliability of Youlin has been questioned in the past. I will open a discussion at RSN in a few so we can get an official consensus either way. As far as verification, that is not what qualifies a television series for inclusion. It must still have significant coverage regardless of cast or creator. --CNMall41 (talk) 23:15, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

To the already-mentioned coverage, one can add for example:

Neighbours and childhood best friends, Zubia (Dananeer Mubeen) and Saim (Khushhal Khan) fall madly in love with each other but both their families refuse to take the feelings of the two young adults, barely out of their teens, seriously. Misunderstandings and family honour create obstacle after obstacle for the young lovers, leading them to an ill-planned elopement.With nowhere to stay and no money, Saim and Zubia agree to a quick nikaah read by their landlord but, with Zubia’s obsessed, angry brother-in-law Danyal (Ali Raza) in hot pursuit, they have to run again. Cold, hungry and insecure, Zubia goes into shock after strangers attack her. In a fear-filled rage, she tears up the nikaahnama and runs home, while Danyal catches Saim and beats him to within an inch of his life. Zubia is barely safe at home but Saim is fighting for his life. It seems that this may be the final blow to their fragile love story.Rahat Jabeen has given us a more authentic take on the self-doubt and foolish joy of young love. Strong performances from Khushhal Khan and Dananeer Mobeen, and a solid supporting cast have brought this story vividly to life. This popular show consistently makes ratings but, as usual, repetition and stretching are threatening to make it drag.

Bylined (Sadaf Haider) in Dawn.

+Bylined review (Ozair Majeed) (https://pakistanicinema.net/2023/06/04/muhabbat-gumshuda-meri-review/)

I consider there is sufficient coverage to either Keep or Redirect/merge, depending on what other users think. -Mushy Yank. 00:12, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Forgot to ping you, @Mushy Yank:. Discussion about Youline started here and here. For Dawn, the source is fine but its thin and only one. It is enough to verify but still needs more coverage. Pakistani Cinema is not reliable. No editorial guidelines and appears more a user generated content based on "your content" section. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep i add repction sources on series by --Sunuraju (talk) 02:45, 18 November 2024 (UTC) Muhabbat Gumshuda Meri: A Refreshing Tale of Teenage Romance

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• Keep per WP:HEY. The article has been significantly improved with new sourcing which demonstrates it passes WP:GNG.4meter4 (talk) 21:13, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Mazar-i-Sharif–Kabul–Peshawar railway line

Mazar-i-Sharif–Kabul–Peshawar railway line (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Another article at Uzbekistan–Afghanistan–Pakistan Railway Project exists about the same topic. This one can be deleted. Wikibear47 (talk) 14:44, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete - Per nomination, the IP that restored this article was also a sock of Oriental Aristocrat.[33] - Ratnahastin (talk) 13:56, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
• Redirect to Uzbekistan–Afghanistan–Pakistan Railway Project per WP:ATD. It is a viable search term so a redirect probably is better.4meter4 (talk) 17:43, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

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Redirect to Uzbekistan–Afghanistan–Pakistan Railway Project. Basically a duplicate of that article anyway, with no new information. Procyon117 (talk) 15:36, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Abdul Majid (cricketer)

Abdul Majid (cricketer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails to meet notability and significant coverage criteria. Shrug02 (talk) 17:16, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete Fails WP:GNG; WP:SPORTSBASIC no WP:SIGCOV as Abdul Majid, Abdul Majid Abbasi or Abdul Abbasi, all of which he has been known as by various platforms. However, still all listings/routine fixtures/short bios listing teams/fixtures. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:58, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Yasim Murtaza

Yasim Murtaza (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails to meet notability and significant coverage criteria. Shrug02 (talk) 17:20, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete Fails WP:GNG; WP:SPORTSBASIC no WP:SIGCOV, listings/routine fixtures only. What little MSM coverage there is comprises match stats and short bios listing teams/fixtures. There would appear to be a lot of these very routine players with articles! Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:20, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Muhammad Ishtiaq Ghafoor

Muhammad Ishtiaq Ghafoor (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Declined prod. One of the sources added is a small mention of him [34] and not WP:SIGCOV. Normally notable weightlifters have at least competed in Olympics or medalled in a major competition. Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 23:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Pakistan. LibStar (talk) 23:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment The very first source says he won a silver medal at the 2006 South Asian Games. I know nothing about that competition or whether or not that makes him notable.4meter4 (talk) 03:13, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
• Weak Keep Although he's not an Olympian but having participated in Asian and Common Wealth games and as a medalist in South Asian games makes him somewhat notable from Pakistani standards. Muneebll (talk) 22:53, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete. Not seeing any WP:SIGCOV for a pass of WP:GNG/WP:NSPORT, and he does not appear to qualify under any of the NSPORT sport-specific guidelines. Dclemens1971 (talk) 14:37, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete: I don’t see how this passes WP:SPORTCRIT either. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 18:49, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 23:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Aruba Mirza

Aruba Mirza (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NACTOR. References are a mixture of not mentioning Mirza, passing mentions and interviews 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:19, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers and Pakistan. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:19, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women and Television. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:35, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: The article needs some serious cleanup. She's a noted participant in a notable show: https://tribune.com.pk/story/2437664/voters-declare-aruba-mirza-winner-of-tamasha-season-2 https://24newshd.tv/24-Sep-2023/fans-disapprove-of-aruba-mirza-s-victory-in-popular-tv-show-tamasha https://www.trendinginsocial.com/tamasha-season-2-winner/ Coverage about her private life also abounds. She does seem to be notable enough. (FWIW Various roles presented as lead/main in the articles about series she played in). Mushy Yank (talk) 19:57, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep. She has done both supporting and lead roles and in this source it is mentioned how she started her career also she appeared in Tamasha Season 2 and she won.(BeauSuzanne (talk) 22:18, 7 November 2024 (UTC))
• Comment - As a winner of a notable TV show I would say there "should" be significant coverage, but everything presented in the discussion with the exception of this has no byline and would be churnalism or otherwise unreliable. I also found some tabloid-type references about an engagement but those wouldn't be suitable for notability. Is there by chance an alternative spelling of the name I can use for search; or, any non-English sources that someone can point out that would be considered significant coverage?--CNMall41 (talk) 22:39, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
  • I will check in other languages news usually in Urdu.(BeauSuzanne (talk) 10:11, 8 November 2024 (UTC))

References

• Draftify: For the time being until more reliable sources are added. Wikibear47 (talk) 07:19, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: The article includes sufficient references to meet GNG. Notable sources, such as The News (Ruling the Charts), ARY News (Papa Ki Pari, Kahani Kahan Se Shuru Hui), The News (Rang Mahal Final Episode), and The Express Tribune, provides substantial coverage of the subject's career, media appearances, TV roles, and win in a popular show. Additionally, other brief mentions in various sources contribute to satisfying the WP:SIGCOV.--— MimsMENTOR ^talk 15:25, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep: Clearly passes Wp:GNG and Wp:NACTOR. Subject has done multiple significant roles in notable Tv shows.

Zuck28 (talk) 15:52, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep Notable name in drama industry and passes notability criteria. Referencing is enough to establish that, Urdu news items are also from mainstream Urdu media. Muneebll (talk) 10:11, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete - Despite the request, no coverage has been presented that show significant coverage. I see keep votes stating "clearly" notable or making the claim of being a "notable name" or having significant roles but not supported by references required by WP:NACTOR. Regardless of roles, there needs to be significant coverage to show it. Notability is not inherent. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:04, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

  WP:NACTOR is met. Based on the provided references, each offers moderate coverage, and the combined use of multiple independent sources can effectively establish notability. — MimsMENTOR ^talk 09:09, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I feel otherwise which is why I say significant coverage has not been presented. Of the five presented as evidence in this AfD (note it is four as one is a duplicate), all fall under WP:NEWSORGINDIA with the exception of this which I would question as reliable based on no listed editorial guidelines and advertising which includes "article publishing." I am open to review anything else someone wants to provide. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:54, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I understand. While there are numerous sources available online covering her career, TV appearances, and roles, individually, they may not meet the threshold for significant coverage. However, when considered collectively, they do. As for your concern about paid content, none of the sources are affiliated with WP:NEWSORGINDIA, as they all come from Pakistani media, not Indian outlets (not saying that your indications are wrong or right). — MimsMENTOR ^talk 06:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

There is sometimes confusion about the name NEWSORGINDIA (which I think needs to be changed by the way), but there are several editors who agree it applies to media in that region as a whole, not just the country. Regardless, we can call it churnalism which is essentially the same thing. Reprinted press releases, paid media, etc. It doesn't have to be paid to fall under that guideline. --CNMall41 (talk) 07:06, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

"Churnalism" can be addressed separately if you want to mention it in that context, and that's fine. However, NEWSORGINDIA still applies as a guideline for Indian media, even if editors agree it's intended for the broader subcontinental region (which I believe is what you were referring to). That said, I don’t see a valid reason to delete this article under WP:NEXIST. — MimsMENTOR ^talk 09:16, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

I feel I can no longer discuss as it is going in circles. Let me be clear......I agree with you on NEXIST. The problem is that I have searched for suitable sources and they do not exist. The ones presented by keep votes are not reliable or not significant. We don't just assume sources must exists if we have searched for and been unable to locate them. --CNMall41 (talk) 09:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep. Clearly passes criteria 1 of WP:NACTOR. Even if WP:GNG is not met, that doesn't matter as the sources prove an WP:SNG is met. SNGs are a perfectly valid pathway to establishing notability under policy.4meter4 (talk) 19:47, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  This is incorrect. WP:ANYBIO says people are presumed notable when there is significant coverage in multiple independent reliable secondary sources, but that people are only likely to be notable if they meet the following standards, of which NACTOR is one. That is, NACTOR creates a refutable likelihood of notability. The guideline specifically says meeting one or more does not guarantee that a subject should be included. What really matters is the secondary sources from which the page can be written. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 22:04, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Keep has a clear majority but these aren't very strong arguments. Keep folks: what sources do you find the most convincing? If there are strong sources in Urdu, can we see them?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 21:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Week Keep: Again, deletion is not cleanup; subject passes C1 WP:Anybio per the award and WP:Nactor. Kaizenify (talk) 13:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete as, per the relist comments, and per CNMall41, the sourcing is just not there. ANYBIO C1 does not apply - this is not a significant award. NACTOR criterion 1 looks stronger, but meeting NACTOR criterion 1 does not guarantee the subject should be included, per the SNG guidelines themselves. As no one has been able to provide suitable sourcing from which a page could be written, there is no reason to keep this page. I would be happy with a redirect if anyone can suggest something suitable. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete: Per nom and CNMall41. Fails to clear notability and GNG too. Keep !votes aren't convincing enough and the sources provided do not make it past SIGCOV and GNG threshold. — Benison (Beni · talk) 04:51, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 08:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Philippines

Ken Abante

Ken Abante (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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All the sources are either blog posts, pass mentioned or written by the subject like this and this. All the sources Fail WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV cannot be established too. Ibjaja055 (talk) 18:11, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

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Rizal Barellano

Rizal Barellano (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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unnotable darts player, fails GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 13:19, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete - lacks significant success in the sport. Google Books - 1 result, only a mention. Google Search - less than 80 results, not prominent. 12 results in Google News, the only one that went beyond a mention was: The first one in 2008 was Rizal Barellano, who was eliminated in the preliminary round by Miloslac Navratil and of whom you never heard again ... Rizal Barellano, born 1965, reached 2006 the quarterfinals of the Asia Pacific Cup and was the first Philippine player invited to the PDC World Championship. It doesn't look he is still playing. Still nothing much. starship.paint (talk / cont) 13:58, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete. Fails WP:SPORTSBASIC. I could find no independent significant coverage. Web searches came up with the standard mastercaller and PDC website stuff, but those can't be used towards notability as they are sports statistics tables. He doesn't in any of the darts reference books. Best.4meter4 (talk) 17:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

58th

58th (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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WP:TOOSOON, the film will released on 2025 and it shouldn't create a Too Soon article and we will wait on 2025. Royiswariii Talk! 11:46, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

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How about switching to "draft" article rather than delete instead? I know it's too soon but it's officially confirmed by GMA that 58th will be released soon next year as long as the article has been improved with better reliable sources. GeniusTaker (talk) 12:09, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Possible but it much better to delete it to wait a more reliable sources in 2025. Royiswariii Talk! 12:54, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Draftify at least until reviews of the film are available. I don't see why we should delete when the teaser is out which indicates that a release will happen. See also this. starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:06, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  Yes I agree to Draftify and wait for sources on 2025. Royiswariii Talk! 14:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Draftify per above.4meter4 (talk) 18:02, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
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IShowSpeed's tour of Southeast Asia

IShowSpeed's tour of Southeast Asia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article is very poorly sourced, and constitutes WP:NOTNEWS CitrusHemlock 18:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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  Note: For the AfDs on the Australia/New Zealand and Europe tours, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/IShowSpeed's tour of Australia and New Zealand. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Leaning Delete Per the sources being mostly just his own live streams. Poor sourcing, only slightly notable. ☩ ^{(Babysharkboss2)} 18:17, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete - Filled with primary and unreliable sources, along with original research. Also seems to be written from a fan's perspective. The tour should be mentioned in IShowSpeed's individual article as there is not enough substance for an individual article. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Just so we keep the info all on one discussion, if anyone knows how to do it, I'm thinking we should merge this AfD discussion with the Europe and Australia/New Zealand tours. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 18:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Travel and tourism, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:11, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete egregious over-coverage of a streamer, based on primary sources. Walsh90210 (talk) 21:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete. Full of primary sources (i.e. his livestreams, which are definitely NOT appropriate sources). It's already mentioned in his own article, so anything to add should be kept there. Procyon117 (talk) 12:34, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Gina F. Acosta

Gina F. Acosta (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NPOL. A staff member at the Office of the Vice President of the Philippines does not count toward WP:NPOL Ibjaja055 (talk) 05:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep – Multiple secondary sources such as The Philippine Star, Daily Tribune and GMA News Online have covered this government official from the Office of the Vice President (OVP). The OVP's questionable use of confidential funds under VP Sara Duterte has been among the top issues discussed in Philippine politics this year, if not the topmost (alongside tensions in the South China Sea and the POGO menace), and much of the Philippine media has been extensively covering the hearings conducted on this matter by the House Committee on Good Government in the past few months ([35][36][37][38][39]).

On November 5, Acosta was among the seven OVP officials who issued a position letter asking that the house congressional inquiry into their budget use be terminated ([40]), and by November 11 was among the four OVP officials ordered arrested based on a contempt citation issued by the committee for their non-attendance at the hearings ([41]). During the November 20 hearing, OVP chief of staff Zuleika T. Lopez and a branch manager of Land Bank of the Philippines gave testimonies that pinpointed Acosta as the OVP official who directly handled the confidential funds of the vice president ([42][43]). The varied independent coverage cited in this paragraph alone, in my view, merits notability for the article; further coverage in the media is also anticipated in the aftermath of the testimonies given in the Nov. 20 hearing. LionFosset (talk) 06:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@LionFosset All the sources you mentioned are good but they do not count toward WP:GNG sources. The subject fails Wikipedia criteria for politician and non WP:GNG sources cannot be used for WP: SIGCOV. Please read more about WP:NPOL. Ibjaja055 (talk) 06:35, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, Women, and Philippines. Shellwood (talk) 11:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• This person has not ran for public office i.e. not a politician, so I don't know how WP:NPOL applies. She appears to be more of a career civil servant or a bureaucrat. This person is notable for one event which is on Sara Duterte's alleged corruption, so the best solution is to merge and redirect this with the article that discusses that, or if that doesn't exist, transform this BLP article to such an article. Howard the Duck (talk) 12:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Howard the Duck That's an insightful suggestion. Ibjaja055 (talk) 16:10, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Howard the Duck You took the words right out of my mouth: Acosta is not a politican. Though I concede to the fact that the person is largely notable for one event so far (i.e. Onel de Guzman, a private citizen who created the ILOVEYOU virus), numerous secondary sources have covered the person not just as a probable participant in Duterte's unusual confidential fund use from 2022 to 2023, but as a government official ordered to be arrested after she was cited in contempt for her continuous absence from house committee hearings in spite of two subpoenas ([44][45][46][47]). LionFosset (talk) 17:46, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  @LionFosset All the sources you provided do not count toward WP:GNG because they lack the WP:SIGCOV of the subject. Ibjaja055 (talk) 20:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  Will continue to give arguments on this matter soon, but I am posting here for reference (and maybe posterity) some stunning developments that just occurred within the past 24 hours in Philippine politics (1. VP Duterte refuses to leave the House of Rep. detention center holding her chief of staff Zuleika Lopez; 2. VP Duterte goes on a tirade against the House committee hearings and curses at President Marcos, his wife and House Speaker Romualdez, claiming to have already spoken with a contract killer to target them in the event she herself is assassinated; 3. VP Chief of Staff Zuleika Lopez faints from an anxiety attack at 3 a.m. and is brought from the detention center to a hospital; 4. Executive Sec. Lucas Bersamin deems VP Duterte's statements an "active threat" against the administration). LionFosset (talk) 06:28, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

  All the more reason to merge and redirect as per my argument above. What's notable is what's happening, not her. Howard the Duck (talk) 00:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  I am considering moving the current article or redirecting this BLP to a new article entitled 2024 Philippine congressional hearings on Sara Duterte, or to Mary Grace Piattos scandal. This is similar with what the proponents in Talk:Alice Guo#Requested move 24 May 2024 on moving that article to "2023–2024 Bamban raids", only that it was overtaken by the fact that Guo had surely attained notability and deserves a biographical article, unlike this person, or the pawns of Sara Duterte, the Marcoses, Romualdezes and everyone else. Howard the Duck (talk) 01:27, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Howard the Duck: I would be amenable to this, actually. However, use the former title (with some tweaking), not the latter. "Mary Grace Piattos" is just one of the many details questioned in the confidential fund use by the OVP. LionFosset (talk) 03:57, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Magwayen Creative Scholars' Guild

AfDs for this article:

• Articles for deletion/Magwayen Creative Scholars' Guild
• Articles for deletion/Magwayen Creative Scholars' Guild (2nd nomination)

Magwayen Creative Scholars' Guild (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG, lack of credible sources. Cites are all blog sources. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 06:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Theatre, Organizations, Schools, and Philippines. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 06:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Draftify - The main problem is sources. There is a chance of better sources being out there.

Sushidude21! (talk) 07:28, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. Non-notable student theatre group that apparently produces one show per year, for one weekend. See WP:MILL. -- Ssilvers (talk) 15:30, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom and Ssilvers. Only a few news articles about this group appeared when I searched the internet, and they were all outdated, going back to 2014 and before. While such news articles exist, they're mostly from PEP.ph and only discuss the events the group held in those years, which I think is insufficient to establish WP:SIGCOV of the group as a whole. AstrooKai (Talk) 19:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

2018 Philippines Piper PA-23 crash

2018 Philippines Piper PA-23 crash (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:EVENTCRIT. Per WP:GNG, "sources should be secondary sources, as those provide the most objective evidence of notability". From what I've been able to find, none of the sources were secondary in nature since none of them contained analysis, evaluation, interpretation, or synthesis of the event itself. The event does not have in-depth nor sustained continued coverage with coverage only briefly occurring in the aftermath of the accident. No lasting effects or long-term impacts on a significant region have been demonstrated. WP:EVENTCRIT#4 states that routine kinds of news events including most accidents – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance, which this event lacks. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 15:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Aviation, Transportation, and Philippines. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 15:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per nom: a classic case of a run-of-the-mill light aircraft crash that resulted in brief news coverage but nothing further that would support notability. Rosbif73 (talk) 15:48, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete Another case of a light aircraft crash that is totally unrelevant. Protoeus (talk) 23:27, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Merge relevant information to Piper PA-23#Accidents and incidents. Avgeekamfot (talk) 21:36, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think a merge is necessary since this accident isn't a notable aspect of the Piper PA-23 with accidents involving light aircrafts routinely happening. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 11:13, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Kambal sa Uma (TV series)

Kambal sa Uma (TV series) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Entirely unsourced, and a WP:BEFORE search brings up little. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 20:23, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Science fiction and fantasy, Television, and Philippines. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 20:23, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
• Easy keep. Passes WP:NTVNATL. Show aired in 2009, or 15 years ago. Link rot is real, and the ABS-CBN News references I used in 2010 Philippine presidential election are all dead (LOL). this PEP.ph reference pushes above WP:GNG. Withdraw the nomination, and stop wasting our time. Howard the Duck (talk) 22:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: Broadcast on a major national network; notable cast, verifiable (https://ent.abs-cbn.com/articles-photos/throwback-shaina-magdayao-and-melissa-ricks-in-kambal-sa-uma-14712 (not independent)): a redirect is warranted anyway (so opposed to deletion). Also see https://www.pep.ph/news/local/3704/kambal-sa-uma-will-premiere-on-april-20 (anecdotic coverage in https://www.spot.ph/entertainment/54092/bida-problems?s=nhaip66nt38j6qs6u1lmg53ang for the record) -Mushy Yank. 10:30, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This article has significantly changed since its AfD nomination. -Mushy Yank. 10:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

DWLC

DWLC (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Vague dab page. Dab pages don't work with only one page and one redirect.

I'm against redirection. I'd rather have DWLC-AM, the only page on the dab, moved to the namespace for the sake of WP:NAMINGCONVENTION. SBKSPP (talk) 06:28, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Disambiguations and Philippines. SBKSPP (talk) 06:28, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
• Move DWLC-AM to this title, and delete the redirect DWLC-TV which has no mention at the target. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:17, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
• Move per Shhhnotsoloud. BD2412 T 00:28, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

DYKC

DYKC (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Vague dab page. Dab pages don't work with only one existing page.

I'm against redirection. I'd rather have DYKC-AM, the only page on the dab, moved to the namespace for the sake of WP:NAMINGCONVENTION. SBKSPP (talk) 06:26, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Disambiguations and Philippines. SBKSPP (talk) 06:26, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
• Move DYKC-AM to this title and delete redirect DYKC-TV which has no mention at target. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
• Move per Shhhnotsoloud. BD2412 T 00:27, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

DYNU

DYNU (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Vague dab page. Dab pages don't work with only one existing page.

I'm against redirection. I'd rather have DYNU-FM, the only page on the dab, moved to the namespace for the sake of WP:NAMINGCONVENTION. SBKSPP (talk) 06:24, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Disambiguations and Philippines. SBKSPP (talk) 06:24, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
• There are two entries. Redirect to DYNU-FM and use hatnote {{redirect|DYNU|the TV station|UNTV}}. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:26, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
• Redirect and hatnote per Shhhnotsoloud. BD2412 T 00:27, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Stephen CuUnjieng

Stephen CuUnjieng (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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This was a pending "draft" in articlespace. The sources in the article are of low-quality, and the WP:BEFORE search was questionable at best. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 08:19, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Finance, and Philippines. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 08:19, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep: Passes WP:BIO and WP:GNG. However, it is recommended to enhance the content by incorporating additional reliable sources, which are available online and can be appropriately cited to improve the article.--— MimsMENTOR ^talk 08:41, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

  The reason why I wanted to draftify is that I couldn't find any reliable sources, and unfortunately, in my experience, without draftification, the article gets abandoned. The draft might get abandoned as well, but can be G13-deleted (basically, a "soft delete" where someone can get the draft "refunded" or bought back). I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 17:34, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

  Which sources? Geschichte (talk) 10:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 08:54, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Weak delete The articles a whole NOTCV mess, but as of the 7th of this month, he hosts a TV show on Philippine TV (ABS/CBN). It's arguably WP:TOOSOON and also arguable that one weekly business show anchoring gig is not the stuff of notability. Borderline, but I'm still not sure there's enough here to keep. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 10:33, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 21:50, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Weak delete per Alexandermcnabb above. The only secondary coverage I can find is routine coverage of him doing his job. The new weekly talk show is a limited series according to this announcement, and might well vanish after a few weeks, so I agree about that being WP:TOOSOON. The awards and recognition section is too vaguely worded to find any reliable sources to verify. Wikishovel (talk) 11:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Singapore

IShowSpeed's tour of Southeast Asia

IShowSpeed's tour of Southeast Asia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article is very poorly sourced, and constitutes WP:NOTNEWS CitrusHemlock 18:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Internet and Asia. CitrusHemlock 18:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  Note: For the AfDs on the Australia/New Zealand and Europe tours, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/IShowSpeed's tour of Australia and New Zealand. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Leaning Delete Per the sources being mostly just his own live streams. Poor sourcing, only slightly notable. ☩ ^{(Babysharkboss2)} 18:17, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete - Filled with primary and unreliable sources, along with original research. Also seems to be written from a fan's perspective. The tour should be mentioned in IShowSpeed's individual article as there is not enough substance for an individual article. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Just so we keep the info all on one discussion, if anyone knows how to do it, I'm thinking we should merge this AfD discussion with the Europe and Australia/New Zealand tours. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 18:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Travel and tourism, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:11, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete egregious over-coverage of a streamer, based on primary sources. Walsh90210 (talk) 21:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete. Full of primary sources (i.e. his livestreams, which are definitely NOT appropriate sources). It's already mentioned in his own article, so anything to add should be kept there. Procyon117 (talk) 12:34, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

South Korea

List of wars involving South Korea

List of wars involving South Korea (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Propose redirecting List of wars involving South Korea to List of wars involving Korea#South Korea, just like List of wars involving Korea#North Korea. Follow-up to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of wars involving North Korea (nominated by Cortador), which resulted in the same solution on 3 November 2024. NLeeuw (talk) 15:47, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, Lists, Korea, North Korea, and South Korea. NLeeuw (talk) 15:47, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  Pinging other participants of previous discussion for follow-up: @Mikrobølgeovn, MolecularPilot, and My very best wishes:. NLeeuw (talk) 15:49, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

This outcome (the merger) was most unfortunate. Although Korea has been a divided country since the 1940s, editors seem adamant to treat it as a single country. We don't we give Sudan and South Sudan the same treatment, for good measure? Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 15:52, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

WP:OTHERSTUFF Cortador (talk) 15:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Mikrobølgeovn has a point, but I think the comparison of Korea with Sudan and South Sudan does not work well. Below I've presented some thoughts on comparing Yemen and Korea, curious what editors think of that. NLeeuw (talk) 16:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

•  Comment: One of the arguments used by nom of previous AfD was This also has precedent e.g. East and West Germany don't have separate pages for their wars, and neither do North and South Vietnam or North and South Yemen. The first half is true, but not the second: We've got List of wars involving North Yemen, List of wars involving South Yemen, as well as List of wars involving Yemen. However, given the significant amount of WP:OVERLAP between the three, we might consider the North and South lists WP:REDUNDANTFORKs, to be merged into List of wars involving Yemen. (The obvious difference being that North and South Yemen no longer exist, only a united Yemen, at least officially; by contrast, a united Korea no longer exists, but a North and South Korea do, despite claiming the whole peninsula for themselves.) But that would be a good idea for a follow-up if this AfD has been closed as nominated. NLeeuw (talk) 15:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete. As with the list of wars involving North Korea, declaring historical states on the territory of modern South Korea (like Goryeo) to be predecessors to South Korea specifically is questionable. There's currently no need for a separate article. Cortador (talk) 16:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

We should have a main one for Korea, with links to separate lists for North Korea and South Korea. Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 18:02, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I am open to this alternative proposal of three separate lists:

1. Korea until 1948
2. North Korea since 1948
3. South Korea since 1948

@Shazback below seems to be suggesting the same thing.

If we do choose for this alternative, I would recommend including the words until 1948 and since 1948 in the article titles just to make clear to both readers and editors what the scope of each list is, and to prevent creating WP:REDUNDANTFORKs again. Cortador was right that we shouldn't duplicate content, but merging all three lists into one might not be the best solution. Also for readability, navigability, and categorisation purposes, three separate lists would solve several practical problems, including the untenable idea that there is still a unified Korean state as of 2024. NLeeuw (talk) 20:49, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep: Very surprised by the outcome of the previous AfD, which I did not see/participate in. I would be surprised to be directed to a page covering wars of multiple states if I was looking for either one.
  My suggestion would for "List of wars involving Korea" to be a disambiguation page with 3 pages listed: "List of wars involving states of the Korean peninsula (pre-1948)"; "List of wars involving North Korea"; "List of wars involving South Korea". Both the latter pages only include post-1948 conflicts, and can have a section at the beginning stating that the state claim succession to pre-1948 states if necessary.
  This follows the most common way people view and analyse the world when considering wars (by state), avoids duplication by clearly separating historical lists where states did not match current territories (e.g., whatever criteria are most relevant for inclusion can be decided, for instance to consider the Ungjin Commandery without needing to worry if either South or North Korea claim it as a predecessor state), while remaining clear link targets that can be found easily. Shazback (talk) 19:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Most of these articles list every war that happened at a location, instead of the current nation. List of wars involving the United States doesn't list the wars that happened there between native Americans or others before the nation was officially founded. Dream Focus 18:26, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  Perhaps because the United States does not claim succession of those states? Plenty of other articles list them by geography / include predecessor states to the current country (e.g., List of wars involving Poland, List of wars involving Vietnam). Shazback (talk) 18:31, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  As a general rule, we do not create lists or categories based on the geographic location where a war or battle took place, as this is usually WP:NONDEFINING. See WP:MILMOS#BATTLESIN. These lists are about belligerents involved in a conflict, not countries etc. where the conflict took place. Therefore, there are no battles "involving the United States" prior to the American Revolutionary War. NLeeuw (talk) 02:10, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  Not sure I follow / understand fully your comment. Both pages I shared include plenty of elements that occured prior to the current constitution / establishment of the Third Polish Republic or the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. Many of these are lineage / predecessor states that had claim over the general area of the current state (not identical borders). Furthermore, a cursory / quick look at both these lists as well as the list of wars involving the United States shows they include cases were the state is not a belligerent per se: Bleeding Kansas in the USA list, the Later Trần rebellion (1407–1414) in the Vietnam list, and the Januszajtis putsch in the Poland list. I'd also note that World War I is listed as a conflict involving Poland, despite Poland not existing at any point during the war as a clear indication geography is considered when compiling these lists. These lists are not pages I like / find very useful exactly because of the points made in the WP: pages you linked. When looking at wars of Country A, my personal expectation is to see only the wars of what is commonly understood to be Country A in current geopolitics (i.e., for North Korea, 1948+, for the USA 1775/6+, for Poland 1918+, for Vietnam 1976+). But that's not how many other people like it, as they expect to see predecessor states' wars included in these lists. Shazback (talk) 02:49, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  My comment was a reply to both Dream Focus and you. I'm not necessarily disagreeing, just adding some thoughts and pointing to some relevant policies and guidelines. NLeeuw (talk) 11:20, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Seongju Oh

Seongju Oh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Delete – article has no substantive references, and it looks a bit as though it is derived largely from what is on the official website (https://seongjuoh.com/biography/). I have not been able to find, during WP:BEFORE, decent independent secondary sources to establish or support the subject’s notability with respect to WP:BIO or WP:NMUSIC – N.B. he has been a member of two notable ensembles, but I am not sure that he would class as a "reasonably prominent" member. There are a lot of listings type sources, but I could find nothing like critical reviews of the his performances or compositions. It is possible that god sources in German or Korean exist, in which case I would happily rescind my recommendation to delete. SunloungerFrog (talk) 14:01, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

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Proposed deletions

• Eunwoo

Taiwan related deletions

Syuejia Shang Baijiao and harvesting incense

Syuejia Shang Baijiao and harvesting incense (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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I'm not sure if this article would stay within draftspace if I moved it there, given that the creator just moved it all over the place. Not well sourced, and a WP:BEFORE search failed. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 02:47, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

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• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Taiwan-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 07:42, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

I am the author of this page, and I sincerely apologize. I was trying to move this article to the main page, but due to an operational error, it was unintentionally moved to two or three other locations. Later, I found the correct way to transfer it to the Wikipedia main page. Sources have now been properly cited. ALFART3594 (talk) 15:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Thailand

IShowSpeed's tour of Southeast Asia

IShowSpeed's tour of Southeast Asia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article is very poorly sourced, and constitutes WP:NOTNEWS CitrusHemlock 18:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Internet and Asia. CitrusHemlock 18:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  Note: For the AfDs on the Australia/New Zealand and Europe tours, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/IShowSpeed's tour of Australia and New Zealand. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Leaning Delete Per the sources being mostly just his own live streams. Poor sourcing, only slightly notable. ☩ ^{(Babysharkboss2)} 18:17, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete - Filled with primary and unreliable sources, along with original research. Also seems to be written from a fan's perspective. The tour should be mentioned in IShowSpeed's individual article as there is not enough substance for an individual article. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Just so we keep the info all on one discussion, if anyone knows how to do it, I'm thinking we should merge this AfD discussion with the Europe and Australia/New Zealand tours. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 18:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Travel and tourism, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:11, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete egregious over-coverage of a streamer, based on primary sources. Walsh90210 (talk) 21:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete. Full of primary sources (i.e. his livestreams, which are definitely NOT appropriate sources). It's already mentioned in his own article, so anything to add should be kept there. Procyon117 (talk) 12:34, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Khon Kaen Silk Festival

Khon Kaen Silk Festival (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Unsourced two sentence orphaned article that's been tagged for improvement for 4 years. I'm struggling to find any sources that show it meets WP:GNG, as everything either seems to be a simple "here is when the festival is" or Wikipedia mirror content. CoconutOctopus talk 19:56, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

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I would support a merge into the Culture section of Khon Kaen, if I could actually find a suitable reference for it. Since I can't, I might have to lean delete for now. Procyon117 (talk) 15:16, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Twenty years later, I've added a bit more and some sources (I don't use ref tags, but feel free to convert them if you must!). For what it's worth, I think we should keep, because it's a big event and there's certainly more to add when someone with better Thai comes along some time in the next two decades. Sources regarding rural Thailand are a bit more challenging to find, but we're hopefully still trying to reduce our Anglo-Saxon bias. Henry^Flower 19:23, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure those sources are independent enough for them to help the article meet GNG. CoconutOctopus talk 19:52, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Google news search of the festival: [48] --Lerdsuwa (talk) 03:08, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Appreciate this! Wasn't able to search in Thai and searching in English didn't give me anything I felt made it reach the threshold. CoconutOctopus talk 08:07, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• keep as very big national or regional festival. Next time, please do research first and then nominate for deletion. Thanks ManoiCMU (talk) 06:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  If you have sources that help this article meet the notabilitu requirements then that's fantastic, please add them. As I stated, I did search, and didn't find anything (presumably as there's not much in English about it). Please don't assume I 'didn't do research'. CoconutOctopus talk 08:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep. Passes WP:GNG. There is coverage on the festival in Gerson, Ruth (1996). Traditional festivals in Thailand. Oxford University Press. p. 72. In searching for both "Silk and Phuk Siao Festival" and the "Khon Kaen Silk Festival" the festival was covered in pretty much every published travel guide for Thailand for the past few decades. I recommend searching "Khon Kaen" "Silk Festival" because many more sources pop up that way. Thai media also covers the festival by looking in google news in Thai using: "เทศกาลไหมขอนแก่น" and "เทศกาลผ้าไหมและผูกเสี้ยว", and there also is some coverage from Thai media in English. Was a WP:BEFORE done?4meter4 (talk) 04:13, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Elephant football

Elephant football (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG. No secondary sources that shows WP:SIGCOV Demt1298 (talk) 20:25, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

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• There appears to be some coverage of the topic of elephants playing football, e.g. Newsweek, Reuters, The Independent, AS, News9, as well as some books, e.g. [49] & [50]. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:40, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete Elephants are sadly abused in many ways, but the fact that this happens doesn't make it a specific notable topic. If anything there can be a sentence at Elephant polo saying they are forced to play other sports, but these sources don't justify an article here. Reywas92^Talk 21:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Animal-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:03, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep or perhaps find a suitable WP:ATD such as a merge to Captive elephants. There is coverage on this (both as an event and people protesting it) in secondary sources: [51], [52], [53], [54], [55], [56], [57] Best.4meter4 (talk) 02:36, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 08:43, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• Redirect to Captive elephants as above. GiantSnowman 08:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: It makes no sense to redirect to captive elephants. If such logic is applied all sports involing animals will be affected. There is no harm in keeping and incubating the article. Such sports is basically for tourism activities rather than for hard core sport activity. Also as 4meter4 pointed out, there is WP:SIGCOV as well. nirmal (talk) 04:21, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• KeepAs per 4meter4 and BeanieFan11 there is WP:SIGCOV for this.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 18:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: Per all of the sources, identified by 4meter4. The subject has enough wp:sigcov for a standalone. Kaizenify (talk) 09:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 21:08, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Vietnam

IShowSpeed's tour of Southeast Asia

IShowSpeed's tour of Southeast Asia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article is very poorly sourced, and constitutes WP:NOTNEWS CitrusHemlock 18:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Internet and Asia. CitrusHemlock 18:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  Note: For the AfDs on the Australia/New Zealand and Europe tours, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/IShowSpeed's tour of Australia and New Zealand. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Leaning Delete Per the sources being mostly just his own live streams. Poor sourcing, only slightly notable. ☩ ^{(Babysharkboss2)} 18:17, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete - Filled with primary and unreliable sources, along with original research. Also seems to be written from a fan's perspective. The tour should be mentioned in IShowSpeed's individual article as there is not enough substance for an individual article. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Just so we keep the info all on one discussion, if anyone knows how to do it, I'm thinking we should merge this AfD discussion with the Europe and Australia/New Zealand tours. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 18:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 18:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Travel and tourism, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:11, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete egregious over-coverage of a streamer, based on primary sources. Walsh90210 (talk) 21:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete. Full of primary sources (i.e. his livestreams, which are definitely NOT appropriate sources). It's already mentioned in his own article, so anything to add should be kept there. Procyon117 (talk) 12:34, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Proposed deletions

Comment on the talk pages of the articles, not here. If you agree with the proposed deletion, you don't have to do anything. If you think the article merits keeping, then remove the {{prod}} template and make an effort to improve the article so that it clearly meets the notability and verifiability criteria.