Talk:side wall

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side wall

back wall

front wall

Someone had marked these for speedy deletion, obviously inappropriate. I'm listing them here, although I personally do not see why they should be deleted. __meco 12:49, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Definitions refer to squash. The phrases seem to be used also in handball, rooms, houses, properties, etc. So if we keep this we'd have to change our definition to "the back|front|side wall of anything" rather than "the back|front|side wall of a squash court" — and it's SoP. Delete.—msh210℠ 20:45, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Keep. On seeing them here, I instantly knew they were about racquetball. As it turns out, I "knew" wrongly (they were about squash), but I do think we should keep the squash/racquetball sense. We can put something like this:

1. The wall at the front of a room or building.
2. Specifically, the wall at the front of a squash or racquetball court, which the ball must hit after each stroke before it hits the floor.

—Ruakh_TALK 23:17, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Even if we keep this, I don't see that those are two senses. Why not combine them into

1. The wall comprising all or part of the front boundary of a room, building, squash or racquetball court, or other enclosed or partially enclosed area.

?—msh210℠ 19:25, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

They're not two senses, exactly, except that one is a term of art used with a precise and well-defined sense that's hyponym-ish to the other. It's like how at [[set]] we include the math sense, even though that's just a special case of the more general sense. —Ruakh_TALK 22:34, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I guess so. (See also the two senses of free: "Unconstrained" and "(mathematics) Unconstrained".  :-) ) Weak keep.—msh210℠ 22:07, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Delete, pointless entries. Mglovesfun 14:33, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Kept.—msh210℠ 21:19, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Deletion discussion 2

The following information passed a request for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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side wall

back wall

front wall

These were discussed back in 2008 and kept after Ruakh, msh210 and meco(?) advocated keeping them while Mglovesfun and the tagger advocated deletion; see Talk:side wall. In that discussion, msh210 pointed out that "side wall" can mean the side wall of anything. Ruakh argued that "It's like how at set we include the math sense, even though that's just a special case of the more general sense", but I don't think that comparison is apt. More apt, IMO, is that we don't have a racquetball- or football- or baseball-specific sense of [[uniform]], even though a baseball uniform is different from a football uniform, and we don't have a special sense of [[player]] for "squash player", "racquetball player", etc, we just have "one who plays any game or sport". That a racquetball player must hit the front wall in a rally is a rule of the game racquetball, not a contribution to some supposed idiomaticity of "front wall". - -sche (discuss) 08:08, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

But these might pass via COALMINE regardless of other merits/demerits; someone should check. (Compare [[house wall]].) - -sche (discuss) 19:10, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

A side wall seems like a different word with a different pronunciation from sidewall, so I don't think COALMINE can apply here. —CodeCat 23:40, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

I have three cites for sidewall as it applies to racquetball, which I have provisionally placed under a subsense. I noted but didn't cite other sports uses: in billiards/pool, baseball, indoor soccer/football. There may be more. My Books search for "off the sidewall" favored sports, so non-sports senses my also exist. DCDuring TALK 03:06, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Even if these entries pass via COALMINE, I think the racquetball-specific senses should be deleted and only the generic "the [[side]] [[wall]] of anything" senses should remain. - -sche (discuss) 04:17, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Right.

One or two of the cites that have sidewall also have front wall, so it may not be so easy to cite frontwall and backwall.

I have the feeling that the applicable definition of sidewall is much more restricted than what we have. I hypothesize that a building or a room does not have a side wall (&lit) but a compartment can have a sidewall. [Hypothesis finds this a tendency, but not absolutely true: Houses and rooms are sometimes said to have sidewalls. Much more frequently tents and awnings have sidewalls. DCDuring TALK 15:37, 18 December 2012 (UTC)]

It is hard for me to see what value this is adding for users. DCDuring TALK 15:25, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

A little sidetrack to the discussion: is there any difference between "back wall" and hind wall? Like "hind wall" referring rather to the inside than outside of the wall? We have this difference in Finnish between (deprecated template usage) takaseinä and (deprecated template usage) peräseinä, that's why I'm asking. --Hekaheka (talk) 21:59, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

My idiolect doesn't acknowledge and examination of Books hits doesn't reveal to me the distinction. "Hind" seems archaic to me. Even "hindquarters" seems at least dated. DCDuring TALK 14:25, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

I think hind leg(s) is still current, though. —Ruakh_TALK 15:22, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Keep. For the "uniform" example — I think that we actually do need at least one special sense of "uniform"; "a man in uniform", for example, does not mean a man dressed for baseball (nor, usually, one dressed to deliver packages). —Ruakh_TALK 15:22, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Kept for lack of consensus to delete. bd2412 T 14:27, 27 November 2013 (UTC)