Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/June 2021

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June 30

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(Attention needed) Balkan Wars tribunal convictions

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Judges of the UN International Residual Mechanism for Criminal Tribunals
Articles: Jovica Stanišić (talk · history · tag) and Franko Simatović (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The UN International Residual Mechanism for Criminal Tribunals (pictured) sentences Serbian State Security Service chief Jovica Stanišić and his deputy Franko Simatović to 12 years in prison for their involvement in ethnic cleansing in the Bosnian War. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Serbian State Security chief Jovica Stanišić and his deputy Franko Simatović are sentenced to 12 years in prison for their roles in ethnic cleansing in the Bosnian War. (no picture)
News source(s): The Guardian, The New York Times
Credits:

Nominator's comments: (Borrowing from the current events portal listing) The conclusion of the longest international war crime case in history, and the first time senior Serbian officials have been convicted for war crimes committed during the Bosnian War, this is major news in international law. Someone should double check me on whether the photo is correct (I'm not 100% sure the trial took place in the ICC building). {{u|Sdkb}}talk 20:42, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments/!votes, anyone? {{u|Sdkb}}talk 04:27, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I am fine with either blurb. The photo is wrong, though, I think. The International Residual Mechanism for Criminal Tribunals is not in the same building as the ICC, as far as I know. I've changed it to the only photo we have of the Residual Mechanism.--3E1I5S8B9RF7 (talk) 08:32, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support posting war crimes convictions from an international body. 331dot (talk) 08:35, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The caption in the image is incorrect though, this isn't the ICC, but the successor body to the ICTY and ICTR. 331dot (talk) 08:36, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed caption. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 17:35, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Significant moment in the prosecutions around the Yugoslav Wars. Wizardoftheyear (talk) 18:09, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Not clear what the significance of this is. Surely there should be a linked article, for example to the prosecutions, rather than just links to the individuals concerned, if this is a momentous and newsworthy event?  — Amakuru (talk) 16:28, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support A conviction for the actor of a mass genocide is clearly something worth posting in the main page. I've removed an irrelevant sentence in the Franko Simatović article.--ϗ (talk) 06:32, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Gordon Brooks (photographer)

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Article: Gordon Brooks (photographer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Cricket West Indies
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Carried on the duty of taking photographs on the West Indies national cricket team for 40 years. His death was mentioned on 30 June by Cricket West Indies in its press release (died on 29 June) Abishe (talk) 09:11, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jack G. Downing

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Article: Jack G. Downing (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Only reported today (June 30); died on June 27 (i.e. provable gap of at least two days) —Bloom6132 (talk) 23:50, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD/Blurb: Donald Rumsfeld

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Donald Rumsfeld
Article: Donald Rumsfeld (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Former United States Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld (pictured) dies at the age of 88. (Post)
News source(s): USA Today, AP, Guardian, Al Jazeera
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article appears in good shape to post Masem (t) 19:26, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There is a Rumsfeld Doctrine, he's been a character in multiple motion pictures including W._(film) and Vice (2018 film) and an Errol Morris documentary The Unknown Known and for anyone paying attention to world events between 2003 and 2006 was certainly a household name. I'd actually say he satisfies User:LaserLegs/NOTMANDELA. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:47, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No only the bold article (and even then, it's iffy) CFORKs are used all the time to bury poorly referenced content. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:24, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Bill Cosby sexual assault case

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


 
Bill Cosby
Article: Bill Cosby (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Supreme Court of Pennsylvania overturns convictions of sexual assault by actor and comedian Bill Cosby (pictured). (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the United States, the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania overturns convictions of sexual assault by actor and comedian Bill Cosby (pictured).
Alternative blurb II: ​ The Supreme Court of Pennsylvania overturns convictions of sexual assault by American actor and comedian Bill Cosby (pictured).
Alternative blurb III: ​ American actor and comedian Bill Cosby (pictured) is released from prison following a decision by the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania overturning his convictions of sexual assault.
News source(s): ABC, AP, BBC, NBC, NYT, Philly Inquirer, WaPo
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Major breaking news. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 17:46, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose In the news and all that, but this was overturned on a technically (he had made a deal in 2005 with the DA before giving his testimony in a different trial; the DA then later reniged that deal in convicting him on the charges that sent Cosby to prison, which is what the court ruled today). For all purposes, there's no issue that Cosby's "crimes" still exist, he just couldn't be convicted on them. This is not like he was completely cleared and rendered innocent (particularly given all the other civil suits against him). --Masem (t) 17:51, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose previously convicted people have their convictions overturned all the time. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 18:04, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • If it were a case where it was a high profile person who's been contesting their innocence all this time, the courts continually ruled against them, and then finally got everything dropped from legal technicalities and ruled fully innocent (eg such as the results of Flowers v. Mississippi if Flowers had been a more high-profile individual) that might be a reason, but fully agree otherwise such reversals or overturns are commonplace and usually set the grounds for more legal engagements. This is not one of those times to post this. --Masem (t) 18:41, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose A technicality.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 18:06, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Especially since the hook as phrased implies a level of innocence, when the Supreme Court just ruled the state is bound by the sweetheart deal it had previously offered him. Morgan695 (talk) 18:17, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The NYT's opening sentence is: Bill Cosby was released from prison Wednesday after the Pennsylvania Supreme Court overturned his 2018 conviction for sexual assault, a dramatic reversal in one of the first high-profile criminal trials of the #MeToo era. Other sources have similar wording. The hook should not be worded in a manner that is not reflective of the sources. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 11:11, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Just a technicality.Jackattack1597 (talk) 18:35, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Extremely reluctant Support We posted his conviction. Technicality or no, that conviction has now been overturned. We labeled Mr. Cosby as a convicted sex offender on the main page. That is no longer accurate, whatever our private opinions of the man. I encourage re-opening the discussion. (I am no longer active on the project. If someone wants to communicate with me please do so by email as my notifications are turned off.) -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:01, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Nearly every report considers that he is absolutely guilty of those crimes but made that detail that he couldn't be convicted on them. He's still facing numerous civil suits that that deal can't erase. As I pointed out above, this is not like where a person who was long believed wrongly convicted and years later finally got the conviction overturned. --Masem (t) 02:38, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I actually think it's quite interesting; it's in the news, the article is of good quality, and sources assign significance to the event. I'm sure our readers will be interested to know about it too, certainly as much (or more) than many of the things that hit ITN. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 02:12, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Article updated, and whether it's a technicality or not, it's *in the news*. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 03:37, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Overturning of a conviction and sentencing we posted on ITN. Nuff said. Disagree vehemently with the overturning, but notable for ITN nonetheless. DrewieStewie (talk) 04:32, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose -- I agree with the overturning of the conviction as the prosecution's actions rose to the level of misconduct (even though no one is doubting that he is still guilty), but I don't think this should be blurbed regardless. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 05:08, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The proposed blurb does not state the country in which Cosby was convicted. Chrisclear (talk) 07:12, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Is there another Pennsylvania elsewhere? But also, this was a decision by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, not the Federal one, so I'm not sure if it matters. He was convicted in a State court as well. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 07:20, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • There are places named Pennsylvania elsewhere, however this is not particularly relevant. Presumably if an ITN item relating to the High Court of Chhattisgarh (population about double that of Pennsylvania), we would include the name of the country as well as the state. We should include the country in which Pennsylvania is located, just as one would expect for Chhattisgarh. Chrisclear (talk) 08:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • I'm not aware of other places called "Pennsylvania" but I have proposed an altblurb. 331dot (talk) 08:13, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          • Chrisclear never fails to show up and complain when the United States is not explicitly mentioned in a blurb, no matter how obvious it is. We shouldn't indulge him.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:51, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
            • No, it's not obvious to many Wikipedia readers who are not from that one particular country. Chrisclear (talk) 13:24, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
              • It absolutely should be. Just like we refer to Northern Ireland as "Northern Ireland", and not "Northern Ireland, a country within the United Kingdom...". Actually, Northern Ireland is less sovereign than Pennsylvania is. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 21:27, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
                • I'm not entirely sure to what your first word "it" refers when you stated that "It absolutely should be". Are you asserting that it is obvious to non-Americans the country in which Pennsylvania is located? Chrisclear (talk) 00:34, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
                  • Yes. It is as obvious to non-Americans where Pennsylvania is as it is to non-Britons that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 06:20, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
                    • I don't see why somebody couldn't simply click (or mouse over) the hyperlink for more information. Alt blurb sounds a bit redundant IMO. But I suppose it doesn't matter either way Belugsump (talk) 06:36, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
                      • It just seems weird. You don't see, for example, blurbs which reads as: "In the United Kingdom, riots erupt in Northern Ireland" -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 06:44, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
                        • We can agree to disagree on the idea that the majority of non-Americans know the country in which Pennsylvania is located. (A related question - just how many of the USA's fifty states are non-American Wikipedia readers assumed to recognise? If less than fifty - which ones are they not assumed to recognise?) To include the country name in a blurb is not 'weird', and it's not redundant. It's actually the de facto standard for blurbs for events that take place outside the US. (Eg. the third blurb on the frontpage: "In Saskatchewan, Canada,") Yet for some strange reason this de facto standard does not exist for blurbs relating to the US. Chrisclear (talk) 21:36, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose sentencing should not have been posted in the first place, and overturning the conviction is equally not noteworthy. Banedon (talk) 07:32, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • It was tossed out on a technicality, and therefore this isn't making the front page of many papers, and so isn't ITN-worthy. Posting this would be just trying to right our great wrongs for posting in the first place. Nobody is going to remember that we posted this years ago, and the news for this event doesn't meet the ITN threshold. If Wikipedia wants to apologise for posting the conviction years ago, they can do that somewhere else. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:28, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • People will not see the distinction of it being a technicality. If I were Cosby I would be pissed about this not being posted. This is not a RGW issue but a BLP issue. 331dot (talk) 08:35, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • You know as well as I do that even if such a thing existed no one reads them, just as with such sections buried in newspapers. If Cosby was aware of this, he might be very interested. We announced to the world that a man was convicted of a crime and aren't telling anyone it was thrown out? This is a travesty. 331dot (talk) 12:57, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Again, I point to the case of Flowers from above: if was absolutely clear that this ruling completely made Cosby innocent in the eyes of the law and that he had never had committed any potential crime, then yes, there would be a BLP issue to not present it that way. But the story here is that Cosby got a deal to avoid being convicted before giving incriminating evidence in a separate trial. Even if the DA stuck to that deal and Cosby was never convicted, the testimony he gave in that prior trial would have ruined his reputation as there was potential criminal acts described. He is now "innocent" by rule of the law, but nowhere near considered innocent by the bulk of RSes talking about the matter, in addition to the fact he's still facing numerous civil lawsuits related to all this. So no, for ITN, it's not a BLP issue not to post this, since that would require us to make sure we post followup actions on every individual we mention in a conviction/sentence at one point. Some might be appropriate, but this is not required. Clearly our mainspace pages have to be up to date and track these to be BLP compliant but thats a separate matter. --Masem (t) 13:06, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Violins for Cosby. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 13:22, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
So you wouldn't want it corrected if we told the world you were convicted of a crime and it was later thrown out? 331dot (talk) 12:58, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It's not a "correction" as the blurb was correct when we posted it. I would feel differently however, if it was a miscarriage of justice. This blatantly is not. -- Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:09, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Cosby's actual criminal acts and the state's prosecution of them are of discrete interest to the encyclopedist, and I believe you are conflating the two. The real notable story is that he (might have) raped a bunch of people. BLP properly precludes us from phrasing it so directly, so instead we say he was accused, indicted, prosecuted, convicted, etc. The weight we give to legal outcomes in the BLP is a choice, taken against all other information available. Our BLP of O.J. Simpson implies he committed a double-murder for which he was not convicted. The successful prosecution and imprisonment of Jack Johnson is treated as racist persecution. Both of these are accurate reads of the historical record, which nonetheless disregard legal outcomes. GreatCaesarsGhost 14:30, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Conviction overturned on a (dubious) technicality. His name was not cleared. Story has been blatantly hyped due to his former popularity, but it's not significant. – Sca (talk) 13:01, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Need to brainstorm a better blurb. My understanding is that the court ruled because it found the government broke a deal involving Cosby's right against self-incrimination. This is a bit of a bigger deal than some kind of legal trivia or 'technicality' and anything we post should reflect that. Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 13:33, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support Wikipedia's voice and Front Page was used to describe someone in a way that is no longer true. BLP demands that we follow up on this in an equal manner. Whether the conviction is vacated on a "technicality" makes no difference; virtually all vacations are on technical grounds, and our adherence to them is what makes the system a legal system (and not merely a system of popular moralism). Criminal convictions are something that is considered "factual", and are thus different from civil judgements (at least in the US). Presumably, there will be no further criminal proceeding in this manner (Double jeopardy, similarly related to the "technicality" under discussion here), so there's no need to worry about having to post about Bill Cosby ad infinitum because we posted about him once.130.233.213.61 (talk) 13:36, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Pretty much this is the crux of the matter. How he is perceived in the public eye is irrelevant as to the status of his conviction. As far as the legal system is concerned, Bill Cosby is a free man. WaltCip-(talk) 14:15, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
So? His article has been updated. – Sca (talk) 14:27, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)

  • This is not a BLP matter as we are under no obligation to post an overturning of a conviction we previously posted if it's not due to questions of actual guilt; that would be righting great wrongs, which we are not supposed to do. Contra 331dot, this is universally recognized as being on a technicality in the sense that Cosby is not actually innocent of the crimes. (I'm glad technicalities work in our liberal justice system as process is important, mind you, but Cosby himself admitted in court to the crimes.) I'm leaning oppose on this because of it, but Cosby's release might be of interest to certain people so his release might be ITN-worthy.  – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 14:25, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Masem. The BLP argument makes no sense. We are not obligated to post a new blurb about a subject because we posted a similar blurb in the past. Who is monitoring all the old blurbs?! GreatCaesarsGhost 14:30, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't a similar blurb. This is the final resolution of the case, which threw out the conviction. We told the world that a man was convicted of a heinous crime but aren't going to tell people that he is an innocent man(from a legal standpoint). 331dot (talk) 15:35, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If you were arguing this nom on the merits, we could debate that. Instead you are making multiple factual arguments that are untrue: 1. that Cosby is legally "innocent" 2. that not posting something at ITN could be a BLP violation, & 3. that if we do not have a policy obligation, we at least have a moral obligation (to a suspected serial rapist) to post a future ruling in his favor because we posting a ruling against him prior. These are plain balderdash. GreatCaesarsGhost 17:37, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
He may be morally guilty but from a legal standpoint his conviction was vaporized and never existed, and the US legal system presumes innocence. 331dot (talk) 19:36, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This is all very interesting, but it doesn't mean Wikipedia needs to (nor is obliged nor "per BLP" etc) publish a story relating to this. This is not the travesty. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 19:57, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I fail to see any sort of BLP issue. No untrue fact regarding Cosby was ever posted. And, even if there was a BLP violation, why would that mean we owe him positive news? If we posted "bill cosby is a stinky poo", would we have to post "bill cosby smells good" 3 years later? Nohomersryan (talk) 19:06, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It is a BLP matter. Unlike gossip, civil judgements, hearsay, popular perception et al, criminal convictions are factual statements as to the legal status of living persons. The questions "Is Bill Cosby a sexual assailant?" can only be answered in one way, and it is in the exact opposite way in which Wikipedia told the world that last time he was on the Front Page. Had the conviction never been posted, a simple update to his article would suffice. But instead, Wikipedia exercised editorial discretion and elevated the then-conviction to it's most outside-facing page, a page that gets many more hits per day than many RSs and has global reach. Was Bill Cosby's case so important to get posted to the Front Page then? Then why not now?130.233.213.61 (talk) 06:15, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You say it is a BLP matter, but your argument does not answer why failing to post would violate our BLP policy. GreatCaesarsGhost 10:38, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There is no way this is the end the matter, I've already seen various articles about "outrage" etc. As per others, it was a technicality rather than being absolved of responsibility and there is no obligation to have a "1 good news = 1 bad news"; what if he gets another trial etc.? Will we then have to blurb every single time he is court, rightly or wrongly? Would set out a problematic precedent. Abcmaxx (talk) 12:45, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It isn't about good news equals bad news. He won't get another trial on this matter, per the court decision(the dissenters said he should, but the majority disagreed). The problematic precedent here is that we will post when people are convicted of a serious crime but not when their legal status changes to innocence as far as the legal system is concerned. It's no different than doing it on the article itself. I won't contribute anymore to this discussion as it is clearly fruitless, but this is not a good day for ITN. 331dot (talk) 12:52, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Although I disagree with the verdict (pun intended), I think we have reached the point where we can lower the curtain on this discussion. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:06, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Goolam Rajah

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Article: Goolam Rajah (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Cricinfo; Cricbuzz
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: had served as the manager of South Africa national cricket team for 20 years between 1991 and 2011. Abishe (talk) 16:37, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Abdur Razzaq Iskander

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Article: Abdur Razzaq Iskander (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ARY News,Samaa TV,GEO TV
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Ainty Painty (talk) 10:32, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 29

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(Posted) RD: Robert Sacchi

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Article: Robert Sacchi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times; Variety; Deadline Hollywood
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Only reported today (June 29); died on June 23 —Bloom6132 (talk) 03:04, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Scott Reid (baseball)

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Article: Scott Reid (baseball) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): MLB.com; Detroit Free Press; The Detroit News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 04:55, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Delia Fiallo

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Article: Delia Fiallo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety, NPR
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Distinguished writer. Considered the "mother of the telenovela".  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 02:49, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Jacob Zuma sentenced to prison

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Article: Jacob Zuma (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former president of South Africa Jacob Zuma is sentenced to 15 months in prison for contempt of court (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

 Dumelow (talk) 12:26, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I simply used the image that was offered with the blurb. If you are able to crop one, it could be switched. 331dot (talk) 19:13, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
File:Mr. Jacob Zuma, during the Joint Press Statement, at Union Buildings, in Pretoria, South Africa on July 08, 2016 (cropped).jpg or File:Jacob Zuma, 2009 World Economic Forum on Africa-1 (cropped).jpg?  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 19:30, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Personally I prefer the latter, but would like to hear other opinions. 331dot (talk) 19:41, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't look like a smile to me, just exposed teeth. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:36, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That picture is cropped from File:Malcolm Turnbull and Jacob Zuma in Jakarta 2017 11.jpg. In my opinion, he's clearly smiling for the camera while shaking hands with Malcolm Turnbull.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 00:26, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, he doesn't look overly happy, and the current image is better than either of those proposed. Stephen 00:30, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 
I have swapped in a different crop of the same 2009 pic. (right) --PFHLai (talk) 00:45, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing: Taliban insurgency

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Taliban insurgency (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): Reuters SCMP
Credits:
Nominator's comments: In the past 24 hours, four districts in Paktia and Ghazni are taken over by Taliban. 173.68.165.114 (talk) 00:36, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

June 28

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Armed conflicts and attacks

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(Posted) RD: Menelik Shabazz

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Article: Menelik Shabazz (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian; Deadline Hollywood; Variety
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 17:20, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I've added 3 citation needed tags, marked one user-generated source (which is needed to back up two quotes), and one permanent dead link (the only info needed from that is for the "Hackney Picturehouse", the rest is elsewhere; probably fine). Uses x (leave me a message) 21:22, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support as the rest was fine. Uses x (leave me a message) 11:23, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Tigray War

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Article: Tigray War (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the Tigray War the Tigray Defense Forces recapture Mekelle, the capital of the region. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Guardian, Reuters, AP
Credits:

Nominator's comments: The government captured the city in November but have now lost it in a significant resurgence of fighting in the region - Dumelow (talk) 12:32, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Greg Noll

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Article: Greg Noll (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 03:57, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Lauren Berlant

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Article: Lauren Berlant (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ArtForum
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Major US cultural theorist. Article a work in progress but several interested editors are contributing. Innisfree987 (talk) 01:30, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Elephant & Castle railway station fire

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Elephant & Castle railway station (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A major fire occurs at Elephant & Castle railway station in London (Post)
News source(s): Evening Standard, GB News
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Ongoing, but looks fairly major. Feel free to change the blurb  The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 15:02, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Articles: Stefan Löfven (talk · history · tag) and 2021 Swedish government crisis (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Stefan Löfven resigns as Prime Minister of Sweden after having become the first to lose a vote of no confidence on 21 June. (Post)
News source(s): https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/beskedet-nya-talmansrundor-vantar (28 June)
 —ajf (talk) 11:08, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • This was nominated previously a week ago, but at that point he had not resigned and consequently people here seemed to think we should wait. But now he has, and there is no longer a normal Swedish government; he instead leads a transitional government. I can say from following the Swedish news that this is a big event. It is unlikely to be quickly resolved. —ajf (talk) 11:11, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose until Andreas Norlén finds a new prime minister and the government change actually takes place. The resignation is indeed a step forward from the no-confidence vote but a transitional government is not really a government change unless the crisis deepens as in Belgium and Spain in the recent past and we decide to post this on other merits (probably to ongoing). A transitional government is like an acting president and that's not what we post.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:31, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Kiril. Let's wait few days. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 11:51, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Kiril's comment. --Vacant0 (talk) 12:38, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose/wait – Naming of a new PM would be more informative than the bald fact of Löfven's resignation. – Sca (talk) 13:01, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait per all.  – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 16:36, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and wait for the new PM to be named, as was the consensus last time... Joseph2302 (talk) 20:57, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per all the same reasons and propose a snow close. Technically, the very same thing happened after Lofven lost his majority in the 2018 elections, and he stayed on as interim for four months, then he got back into the full-time job because no other candidate could supersede him. It could take the same amount of time to find a new leader - if at all. Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:27, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Western North America heat wave

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Article: 2021 Western North America heat wave (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The highest temperature ever recorded in Canada occurs during the 2021 Western North America heat wave. (Post)
Alternative blurb: An extreme heat wave strikes Western Canada and the Pacific Northwest of the United States.
Alternative blurb II: An extreme heat wave strikes the Pacific Northwest in the United States, and southwestern Canada.
Alternative blurb III: An extreme heat wave covers Western Canada and the Pacific Northwest of the United States, killing up to 103 people, sparking wildfires, and causing significant damage to infrastructure.
News source(s): CBC, CBS, CNN, Guardian, NPR
Credits:

 Bri.public (talk) 17:29, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • The article may need quality improvements. I just removed some opinion from the lede. Support on significance. Jehochman Talk 18:05, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I'm in the middle of it, but people are inconvenienced and have to stay cool for a few days. (It's dropping tomorrow). If there were a significant number of deaths or other disasterous issues (like wildfires) associated with it, that would be different. --Masem (t) 18:10, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Given that we now have at least 100 deaths reported (Canada and Arizona) then as long as the deaths are properly documented in the article and the blurb nominated, this is appropriate to post. But the article is not at this point yet. --Masem (t) 22:16, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Those Arizona deaths were from June 12 to 19. Hot in the desert, sure. But not seemingly part of this late June deal. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:18, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • Still, now we are getting more death reports tied to the weekend heat wave that clearly put this as a disaster/catastrophe, which is the reason I would support posting related to the deaths following article improvements. I would not support posting just because we broke tons of records, because, as others below have said, this can be anticipated to happen routinely with global warming. --Masem (t) 02:46, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Masem: And wildfires apparently... [1] NoahTalk 02:51, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Didn't see that but that adds to the postability of this too. --Masem (t) 02:53, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Far be if from this user to support a mere U.S. weather story. However, keep in mind this isn't your usual U.S. summer heat – records broken all over the PNW, many in cities such as Portland that don't normally get very hot, and which aren't equipped with universal home AC like the usual U.S. hotspots. So let's wait and see how many North Americans (Canadians too) die of causes related to the heat. – Sca (talk)
PS: In my town, the temp at noon (18:00 UTC) was 95F (35C) and the high was forecast at 102F (39C) today and tomorrow. – Sca (talk) 19:00, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, if there is a reasonable number of deaths or other catastrophe associated with this, then this is reasonable to post. We may not know that until tomorrow, since I know news stations have been alerted everyone to this since mid-last week. --Masem (t) 19:12, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Let's hope we don't get a rash of wildfires. – Sca (talk) 19:31, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)

If this graph continues till fall the West US would continue having it's worst 21st century drought ever right into peak wildfire season. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:04, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This is much more than "the weather changing in North America". Records are being obliterated and people are now dying. 331dot (talk) 19:36, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Heat wave deaths skew to the second half. And obliterated is almost an understatement, Portland, Oregon (broke by 9°F) literally almost reached the 10.4°F margin of recordbreaking record for an Earth heatwave (centuryish periods of record only, obviously if a station has only been recording a few years or decades then raising the all-time high by 10.4°F in one heatwave becomes easier, it broke the June record by 14°F but June records are based on a sample size of only a week or 2 of the calendar where the record could realistically be, compared to the month or 2 for all-time records. Oh shit, the all-time record is now where it shouldn't be (the previous record was twice in August and once in July (all 107°F) and now it's 116° in June). Oh snap). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:09, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until impact becomes more clear and article becomes a bit more fleshed out. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 20:58, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Suggest you read this and this. – Sca (talk) 22:29, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This heat wave is notable for breaking all time weather records by a huge margin "The dangerous heat wave enveloping the Pacific Northwest is shattering weather records by such large margins that it is making even climate scientists uneasy". The temperatures reached now would likely only have been reached before in the previous interglacial 120,000 years ago. Count Iblis (talk) 21:29, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Wikipedia recognizes that climate change is a thing, we don't deny it. But we should not feed into panic/fears about it but wait for actual published studies on it per SCIRS (in a similar vein as per MEDRS). That these are record breaking temps absolutely should be documented, but if that's all we're getting, we should avoid this type of fear-mongering in this area on ITN. --Masem (t) 22:27, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Bad parts of the article should just be edited into a dry tone that sounds like an encyclopedia instead of very informal English. Would linking to that still be bad as other weather extremes are posted all the time? i.e. hurricanes, floods, tornadoes etc. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:53, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Count Iblis. Also it's wild that the all-Canada record of 113°F was broken on the Pacific side of the mountains (A desert-like 121.3°F – the new Earth record for ≤45° from a pole, literally on Vancouver's river). Normal sea temperature Jun 28: c. 55°F 17 miles inland: 109.2°F. In an oceanic climate! Vancouver Island reached 108.9°F even though the wind had to blow over the cold strait to reach there. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:45, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As discussed last year, meteorological records are not significant enough for ITN. Whether it be most storms in a hurricane season or the highest temperatures ever, it isn't appropriate to post here. We don't post heatwaves elsewhere when they occur. Posting this is just US-centric and hypocricy. As there are relatively few to no deaths from the event, I must oppose. NoahTalk 23:10, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Did you even read the proposed blurb? Canada is a sovereign state, and a country in North America. If your !vote isn't overlooked for naked anti-US bias, it should be overlooked for what has to be willful ignorance. If only we got the same level of venomous hate from you when a hurricane during hurricane season does hurricane things. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:00, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There was no "established policy." People opposed back in November 2020 per climate change and that we post storms (impact) and not season articles with records. They are correct that we shouldn't be giving in to climate change as more records are likely to be broken in the future as we continue to warm. I oppose all of the blurbs (main, alt 1, and alt 2) because the record is just a number value with no real meaning. I would support a blurb mentioning the deaths and/or other impacts mentioned below. NoahTalk 20:55, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
4.4 sigma. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 03:00, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Vancouver alone had about 65, Burnaby and Surrey shared the rest. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:32, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support due to the unusually high death toll and the fact that an 83-year old Canadian heat record was broken by an absurd 4.5 degrees. NorthernFalcon (talk) 03:06, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Anyone that suggests the record highs in the Pacific Northwest being over 10 degrees F higher than Austin, Texas (just as an example I saw in the news earlier which made me do a double take) is not enough for it to be "in the news" is just making up criteria. Not to mention the other factors - low rate of AC equipped buildings in the area (due to temperate climate) and others. I suggest adding something about the records, not the impact, to the blurb. There is no reason we must cover the depressing side of things - and to be quite frank, the deaths aren't why it's in the news - the event itself and the number of extreme (again, 10 degrees higher than Austin all time record high) high records set is. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 03:21, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Canada north of 50 got hotter than the Riyadh record. Also above the records of Europe, North and South America besides Mexico/U.S., Abu Dhabi Airport, Albuquerque, Alexandria, Algiers, all major Australian and Indian cities, Amman, Aqaba, Aswan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Burkina, Cairo, Cameroon, Canaries, CAR, Chad, Cyprus, Djibouti, Dubai, Eilat, Eritrea, Eswatini, Ethiopia, Gambia, Giza, Islamabad, Karachi, Khartoum, Kirkuk, Lahore, Las Vegas, Lebanon, Mali, Medina, Mongolia, Muscat Airport, Namibia, Niger, Nigeria, Nouakchott, Port Said, Port Susan, Senegal, Somalia, South Africa, Suez, Syria, Tehran, Texas, Tijuana, Tripoli, Tucson, Tunis, Turpan (city), and Yemen. Equal to Morocco record. 0-1.50°F less hot than Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya, Mauritania, Mecca, Phoenix, Qatar, Sudan, Tunisia etc. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 03:50, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Extreme heatwave that shattered numerous records and had plenty of notable impacts. Also, the heatwave resulted in the deaths of at least 103 people, and it started multiple wildfires, some of which are forcing evacuations. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 03:23, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted -- tariqabjotu 05:56, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Shouldn't it be mentioned that this broke national all-time temperature records? TornadoLGS (talk) 18:56, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • The ITN box is not well suited for just record-breaking weather events (since it is bound these will be broken in the near future due to climate change); instead, the reason this is considered significant is the catastrophes that resulted from the insanely high temperatures, which is a more tangible aspect for ITN to work from. --Masem (t) 19:00, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 27

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

  • Authorities in the Turks and Caicos Islands said a boat carrying 20 dead individuals, including two children, was discovered drifting approximately a mile off the coast of Grand Turk. (AP)
  • Seven people are killed and dozens are injured in a blast in a building in Dhaka, Bangladesh and causing damage to seven buildings. The cause of the blast is unknown but it is suspected to be caused by a gas leak. (ABC News)

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime


(Posted) RD: Lambert Mascarenhas

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Article: Lambert Mascarenhas (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times of India
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian journalist. Article can do with some expansion, but, should be ready soon. Ktin (talk) 15:27, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Reuven Bulka

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Article: Reuven Bulka (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC.ca
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Canadian rabbi. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 22:25, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Steven Horwitz

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Article: Steven Horwitz (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Forbes
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American economist. Article requires some work before it can be ready for homepage / RD. I will get to it unless someone gets to it before me. Thanks. Ktin (talk) 00:04, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 26

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Armed conflicts and attacks

  • A 28-year-old white supremacist hijacks a truck in Winthrop, Massachusetts, before crashing into an unoccupied home, causing extensive damage. He then fails to hijack another vehicle before opening fire on black bystanders, killing a woman and a man. Police exchange gunfire with the attacker, killing him at the scene. White supremacist rhetoric is found in the gunman's handwriting. (BBC News)

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Politics and elections

  • 2021 Peruvian general election
    • Peru prepares for major protests in response to the June 6 election which saw socialist candidate Pedro Castillo of Free Peru winning the presidency by a narrow margin of 44,000 votes. Presidential candidate Fujimori Keiko, who lost to Castillo in the second round, has called for several thousand votes to be blocked, largely from the rural areas, where she alleges that fraud occurred. Castillo's supporters have vowed to call for a general strike if his victory is not confirmed soon. (Reuters)

RD: Johnny Solinger

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Article: Johnny Solinger (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stones
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American singer-songwriter. The article is a start, but it's tagged and will require some work to make the Main Page. --SirEdimon Dimmi!!! 01:35, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: This stub has less than 300 words of prose, and the section on his "Musical career" lacks refs. Much fixing is needed to allow this nom to proceed. --PFHLai (talk) 12:49, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Frederic Rzewski

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Article: Frederic Rzewski (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/frederic-rzewski-dead/2021/06/26/f1f2af28-d6b6-11eb-a53a-3b5450fdca7a_story.html and others
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: "Selected discography" section needs references. Article is otherwise good to go. Zingarese talk · contribs 20:48, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Article should now meet all criteria for inclusion Zingarese talk · contribs 22:22, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Questions A few things that need to be addressed:
  1. Is it customary to include recordings by other performers in the composer's own page?
  2. The paragraph about his works in the Career section needs source verification: did the composer actually state that his variations were "a companion piece" to the Diabelli Variations?
  3. The Slonimsky quote in Appraisal should have a page number.

Joofjoof (talk) 01:24, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Joofjoof: 1) yes, it is customary; most composers aren't prolific concert/recording artists. Rzewski was somewhat of an exception-- with emphasis on somewhat. The vast majority of recordings of a composer's works were made by other performers. See Ned Rorem, John Corigliano, Elliott Carter, and countless others. 2) no, it did not. Removed accordingly. In the verification process I also detected a handful of other mistakes, which I have now rectified. I also replaced the source with an online version. 3) I have removed the quote for now, since I don't have access to the book. That quote was added way back in 2004; perhaps Antandrus, who added that quote at the time, knows the page number. Let me know if you have any further questions Zingarese talk · contribs 04:00, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, we didn't bother with footnotes, let alone page numbers back then. It's on page 857 of the Concise Baker's Biographical Dictionary of Musicians. Antandrus (talk) 04:10, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Joofjoof: Do you have any further concerns with this RD nom, please? --PFHLai (talk) 10:05, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@PFHLai: It looks good to me now, thanks for verifying the sources. I think I have found a citation for the Russian book at the end: OCLC 794813048 Joofjoof (talk) 01:41, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: The Personal Life and Death section has footnotes for the death but not for the personal life materials. Is this a BLPO concern? If the info came from the Washington Post article (I don't have access), please redeploy the footnotes as needed. Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 03:05, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@PFHLai: yes, they came from the Washington Post article!! Zingarese talk · contribs 03:29, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Zingarese, for inserting the extra footnote there. I find no other issues with this nom. This RD is good to go. --PFHLai (talk) 08:24, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mike Gravel

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Article: Mike Gravel (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: A notable American politician, good article-rated --Vacant0 (talk) 13:47, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing: Tour de France

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2021 Tour de France (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN, Eurosport, NBC Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Major world cycling tournament. The conclusion is ITN/R, but this race goes on for three weeks – longer than the Olympics. Stage-by-stage updates will be made on 2021 Tour de France, Stage 1 to Stage 11 and 2021 Tour de France, Stage 12 to Stage 21AllegedlyHuman (talk) 18:05, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Matt Hancock resigns

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Matt Hancock (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Health Secretary Matt Hancock resigns after an affair was revealed in which he had broken government social distancing guidelines (Post)
News source(s): *BBC News
Credits:
 MissSnowdome (talk) 18:02, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This is English Wikipedia is it not? MissSnowdome (talk) 18:06, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It is "English language" yes. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 18:08, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Abdalelah Haroun

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Article: Abdalelah Haroun (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Count Iblis (talk) 17:36, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mir Hazar Khan Khoso

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Article: Mir Hazar Khan Khoso (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Nation, tribune.com.pk
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Khoso was interim prime minister in 2013. His wikibio is in reasonable shape. Some updating and cleaning up would be good. No need to rush this to MainPage, though. Better wait till more info becomes available. Cause of death is not there yet. PFHLai (talk) 14:44, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Brian Bamford

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Article: Brian Bamford (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Brian Bamford (1935 – 2021)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: English professional golfer who won the 1961 Schweppes PGA Close ChampionshipNigej (talk) 12:04, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 25

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology


(Posted) RD: Romulo Yanes

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Article: Romulo Yanes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Only reported today (June 25); died on June 16 —Bloom6132 (talk) 00:09, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) UFO report

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The US government releases a widely-anticipated report on UFOs, stating that 143 objects detected between 2004 and 2021 were unable to be identified, 18 of which displayed "unusual movement patterns". (Post)
News source(s): https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/ufo-report-government-can-t-explain-143-144-mysterious-flying-n1272390
Credits:

Article needs updating
 70.172.194.25 (talk) 23:16, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Unless one was piloted by little green men, there's not much there there. GreatCaesarsGhost 23:27, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose ITN is not an American news website, this is barely exciting news in the US, and completely unimportant to the rest of the world. Joseph2302 (talk) 23:47, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: the report basically says "there are things that we have seen that we are unable to explain". It's not conclusive at all and it makes no mention of anything crazy like aliens. If you see something only through highly sophisticated instruments, and your first response is "aliens" rather than "maybe there's some sort of glitch with the instruments", that's on you.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 23:53, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Dragon Man (archaic human)

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Article: Dragon Man (archaic human) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Dragon Man, an archaic human who lived between 138,000 and 309,000 years ago, is scientifically described. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Chinese researchers have unveiled an ancient skull that could belong to a completely new species of human.
Alternative blurb II: Homo longi, a roughly 223,500-year-old human species, is scientifically described from a skull found near Black Dragon River, China.
News source(s): https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/25/science/dragon-man-skull-china.html
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Notable discovery Thriley (talk) 17:52, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

it wasn't brought to science until 2018, and wasn't ever described until June 25th   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  18:01, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Joseph2302. We run the risk of looking excitable and foolish here. Lets not fall into the daily newspaper trap of unquestioningly running the most sensationalist bits from qualified scientific studies. Ceoil (talk) 01:08, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - 1. Because it is science 2. "The team has claimed it is our closest evolutionary relative among known species of ancient human, such as Neanderthals and Homo erectus." and "The researchers say the discovery has the potential to rewrite the story of human evolution." but ""The results will spark a lot of debate and I am quite sure that a lot of people will disagree with us,". I think we should update the blurb to specify the "could" "maybe" Sherenk1 (talk) 05:59, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 24

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports


RD: Alain Paul Lebeaupin

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Article: Alain Paul Lebeaupin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Vatican News
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article looks ok. 141.157.254.129 (talk) 18:38, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Stephen Dunn

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Article: Stephen Dunn (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NewsSJCD
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Bottom sections can be reconsidered. Otherwise good. 141.157.254.129 (talk) 18:38, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Trần Thiện Khiêm

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Article: Trần Thiện Khiêm (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [4]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: South Vietnamese general from the 1960s involved in various juntas. Later Prime Minister Bumbubookworm (talk) 09:56, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed them. Will keep working on the article Bumbubookworm (talk) 13:20, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Very nice! No reason to delay this one further. GreatCaesarsGhost 14:23, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Canadian Indian residential school system

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Canadian Indian residential schools gravesite discoveries (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 751 unmarked graves are discovered at the site of the Marieval Indian Residential School in Saskatchewan, Canada. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, CNN, CBC, AP, Guardian, Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: This was an indirect nom from oppose for Surfside condominium building collapse. Changed back to blurb so people can see blurb, but can still nom for ongoing or blurb. Albertaont (talk) 20:45, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
What's beyond belief is your argument that this is more burb-worthy than a building collapse that has left 100 people dead or unaccounted for. Try not to let your anti-American bias shine too brightly, here. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 22:46, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You'd do better to focus on the matter in hand. A building collapse is inconsequential and trivia in comparison to the discovery of 751 graves. That's not an anti-American bias, it's just common sense. But YMMV. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 07:15, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Gotta be honest: Any pub quiz that considers a building collapse and fatalities to be "trivia" would be one shitty quiz. WaltCip-(talk) 12:04, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Everything is relative! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 12:16, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Would prefer blurb to ongoing, but we need a more substantive update on the recent finding. I would agree that we not post each one, but we're nowhere near that being a concern yet. GreatCaesarsGhost 22:37, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb 751 deaths is ITN worthy. And no evidence that finding horrific numbers of death will be an ongoing event- this could (hopefully) be the last time they find so many. Joseph2302 (talk) 23:44, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't see any opposed to posting something in relation to this. Issues are ongoing v blurb, and quality of the article or need of a separate article, which are fair arguments. --Masem (t) 23:52, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Away goals rule abolished

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Away goals rule (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: UEFA abolishes the away goals rule in all club competitions. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, ESPN
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: The rule was introduced in the 1965–66 season, so its abolition as a long-standing competition rule looks significant. Similar to the abolition of the golden goal and the like. Brandmeistertalk 20:28, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Surfside condominium building collapse

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Article: Surfside condominium building collapse (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A condominium in Miami collapses, killing at least three people and leaving 99 people missing. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A highrise collapses near Miami Beach killing at least three people and leaving 99 people missing.
News source(s): BBC, CNN, Miami Herald
Credits:

Nominator's comments: The collapse of an apartment building is quite rare in a developed nation, and it appears to have caused significant deaths, although we'll know more in a few hours. NorthernFalcon (talk) 16:32, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support - There are almost certainly people buried in the rubble. The article is being improved very rapidly. Jim Michael (talk) 16:45, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wait I would wait to see if it ends up causing a significant number of casualties. One, two or three would not seem important to me. It's not very very unusual see the collapse o apartment buildings. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 16:59, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait If it is only a handful of deaths, then this looks a lot worse than it could have been. But if it ends up nearly all 51 ppl missing are found dead, then this is obviously on appropriate to post. --Masem (t) 17:04, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It happened at about 1am - the death toll will almost certainly be high. Jim Michael (talk) 17:44, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We should still wait for that to be confirmed. This is massively pre-emptive to assume that it will be high. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:55, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion about different story
There's less coverage of the mass graves because although their discovery is recent, the deaths aren't. Jim Michael (talk) 20:35, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yet fundamentally and decisively more meaningful. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 20:38, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
... If you want it in ITN, then propose a blurb for it. But most people don't care about deaths from 50+ years ago-- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 21:19, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"most people don't care about deaths from 50+ years ago" ignorant people perhaps. And I guess people who couldn't give a toss about gross miscarriages of justice or genocide. Briliant. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 22:31, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
How is the 750 unmarked graves from two generations ago more ITN-worthy than the deaths of 100 people less than 24 hours ago? If these graves were in the US instead of Canada, would you care? Serious question. I can't wrap my mind around this level of dissonance. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 22:49, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
My people were taught that one single guy who died about 1,999 years ago is to be remembered and revered like a god every single day. Plenty still remember and revere their hundreds of thousands of direct ancestors at the same rate. Many consider aunts, uncles and cousins as old family, too, including several who are indeed legit pissed today, despite this terrible secret coming to light in a completely foreign province. Not a contest, though. Room on the MP to mourn all these people we never knew. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:20, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not ready Blurb for death number doesn't even match the number stated in the article. And there are reference errors in red in the article. If people aren't fact checking the blurb, I doubt all these support fans are actually checking anything.... Joseph2302 (talk) 23:40, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • At the time the Grenfell tower was posted, there was confirmation of "multiple casualties" and with hundreds still unaccounted for, with 50+ injured to hospitals. Here, we have now 3 confirmed deaths, and 11 injuries and still 99+ unaccounted for, and given the "waits", not at the point that would be equivalent to Grenfell. ITN is not a news ticker, we can wait to make sure the death toll is high, if it is going to be high. --Masem (t) 23:56, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The supports above that are based on expectations of a large death toll are against WP:NOTCRYSTAL. We can wait a few more hours as more reports come in. I expect it will be a large death toll unfortunately due to the number missing so many hours on, the time of day when it happened, and other factors, but we still work on facts, not assumptions. --Masem (t) 00:03, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • " Get over it and move on." Some irony in this post from someone who two minutes before said that people should "stop the hysteria" on another thread here.... Also, not a WP:SUPERVOTE- there was an unclear consensus, which is now clearer in favour of supprt. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:09, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted as a Blurb) Benigno Aquino III

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Article: Benigno Aquino III (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Former President of the Philippines Benigno Aquino III (pictured) dies at the age of 61. (Post)
News source(s): PhilStar The Manila Times
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former president of the Philippines. The article needs some additional references. Johndavies837 (talk) 01:48, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • I've never been to the Philippines but know about him and his family very well as one of the most representative people from that country. That's more than enough for me to conclude that he deserves a blurb. Other than that, the fact his name appeared on a list of the 100 most influential people in the world a couple of years ago should be an automatic qualifier.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:13, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 23

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime


(Posted) RD: Peter Zinovieff

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Article: Peter Zinovieff (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian; New Musical Express
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 15:27, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Bev Scalze

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Article: Bev Scalze (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): St, Paul Pioneer Press
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American politician. Served in the Minnesota Senate and the Minnesota House of RepresentativesAllegedlyHuman (talk) 19:12, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Viktor Pavlovich Potapov

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Article: Viktor Pavlovich Potapov (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Vzglyad
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Soviet airman. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 19:03, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Melissa Coates

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Article: Melissa Coates (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Wrestling Inc, Generation Iron, Comic Book, London Free Press
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Canadian professional wrester and bodybuilder. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 03:08, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Brian London

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Article: Brian London (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News; The Guardian; The Daily Telegraph
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 21:19, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted RD) John McAfee

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: John McAfee (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Software businessman John McAfee (pictured) commits suicide in his jail cell hours after his extradition to the US is approved by Spain. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ British-American software businessman John McAfee (pictured) dies in prison in a suspected suicide at the age of 75.
Alternative blurb II: John McAfee (pictured) commits suicide in prison after Spanish authorities approve his extradition to the U.S.
Alternative blurb III: John McAfee (pictured) kills himself in prison after Spanish authorities approve his extradition to the U.S.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ Businessman and political activist John McAfee (pictured) kills himself in prison after Spanish authorities approve his extradition to the U.S.
News source(s): El Pais (Spanish), BBC, CNBC, Guardian, NBC, NYT, AP
Credits:
  – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 19:43, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I know the original blurb is atrocious, but perhaps it can be rewritten. He's been waiting in Spanish prison for American extradition for months now, under controversial circumstances.  – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 19:38, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure if you meant that as sarcasm, but this is not really an unexpected end at all. This is a person who's fame is derived far more from his many (alleged) crimes and being generally "out-there" then his business interests. GreatCaesarsGhost 21:11, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I agree it's a bizarre end to an equally bizarre life (and makes sense as a way to avoid an effective life sentence). But a few months ago I was actually looking forward to his extradition. Davey2116 (talk) 00:02, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb for multiple reasons. Firstly, this is top news in the media at the moment and BBC's article is really convincing about his notability. Secondly, he pioneered in something that transformed the computer world and impacted billions of people. If that doesn't make him a transforming figure, then we definitely apply double standards. Thirdly, the fact he committed suicide to avoid extradition is story on its own. And finally, the fact some people consider him a criminal has nothing to do with his notability. We don't have a rule to post blurbs for 'good guys'.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:33, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blurb when ready. There are too many citation needed tags for this to be posted right now, but because of the nature of his death the additional explanation is needed which a blurb can provide. Uses x (leave me a message) 21:46, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blurb Old man dies, but interestingly, long after popularizing and dominating virus protection and shortly after still grabbing crime headlines. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:14, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • RD only – Not really a household name, and his demise was due to personal issues. Note that article says "apparent suicide," tho I don't suppose there's much doubt about that. – Sca (talk) 22:26, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Apparent means clear and obvious, not the opposite, and his name was literally on household products. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:35, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Apparent is more iffy than that, or at least it can be depending on circumstances. (Note family's reaction.) – Sca (talk) 14:02, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral on blurb I take this opportunity to say that there is a previous nomination pending to be published, in view of the fact that this one in less than 20h will be published. Am I being too much repetitive? Well, a little bit, lol. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:27, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support any of the blurbs because the El País article contains good citations from eye witnesses, multiple jurisdictions, and more than one reporter to support the statements. DougEMandy (talk) 22:33, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I support for consensus to apply WP:BLP, WP:BDP as "exception would be for people who have recently died" + "apply particularly to contentious or questionable material about the subject that has implications for their living relatives and friends, such as in the case of a possible suicide". Yet I think all info in secondary sources does pass verifiability under WP:BLPPRIMARY, WP:BLPPUBLIC. Maybe alt1, alt2 with due weight but not false balance for his preemptive denial of alleged circumstances upon imprisonment. DougEMandy (talk) 01:38, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Vaginally vigorous venture capital anti-virus virtuoso? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:51, 24 June 2021 (UTC) [reply]
  • RD is only measured on article quality, therefore using Support RD means that you believe it meets the article quality threshold. There is only 1 cn tag, so article quality seems okay to me. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:29, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for proving my point. It's inconceivable that all of these editors are reviewing quality. If the were, why do all the other RD noms have no votes? These folks are voting for blurb v. RD. And the article is pure garbage. GreatCaesarsGhost 12:56, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also, I'm not "proving your point"- I'm doing exactly the opposite, but good of you to try and twist my words. I'm saying people are saying the article quality is fine, because that's the only justification for supporting an RD. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:07, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you read the progress of votes, people say the quality is bad, or they don't mention it at all. No one says the quality is good, because they didn't even look. Look at the first vote, that supported a blurb but then confirmed when asked that the quality was insufficient. GreatCaesarsGhost 16:44, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • As I am myself a modest contributor, I appreciate all efforts, great and small; I did not and would not malign you or any other editor. The target is thorough and well-documented, but it is not a good article. If we were to evaluate it as the notes one might use to compose an article, it is quite nice. But as an article, it is quite poor. GreatCaesarsGhost 16:44, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. All over the news all over the world. I've seen it on the top pages of local town news websites in russia and indonesia. isn't ITNR supposed to represent whats in then news rather than what people who post here regularly feel fits their ideology/worldview the best? 212.74.201.238 (talk) 11:26, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb, support RD. Strange case, but the widespread media coverage smacks of rubber necking and tabloid reporting. He clearly lived a complicated and varied life, but his main contribution was building an antivirus business that he sold decades ago and no longer has any involvement with. His later political and business ventures were not major. I don't see him as a major transformative figure, even in the field of computer software - he's no Bill Gates or Tim Berners-Lee. RD is fine, no need for a blurb. Modest Genius talk 11:53, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If you think that the word always indicates illegality, I think you may be committing an error. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:34, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          • As someone who is also British, it does not imply an illegal act. One may be a committed Christian, or commit to a political party or any of the numerous other definitions the OED provides. While the original meaning may have been connected to the crime of killing oneself, the actual phrase lost all legal connections some time ago. 86.155.197.47 (talk) 12:52, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, I'm very glad I've avoided committing myself to a marriage. Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:20, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
From prior to the RFC, the reason there's been a push to remove "commits suicide" is less about the few places where suicide may be a crime, and more on the fact that it creates a certain attitude on the act of suicide that is seen by some mental professionals to negative feed into that and may tip others on the verge of suicide into doing so (that is "committing" to the act). But, as our RFC concluded, WP at the current time does not forbid the use of "commit suicide" and leaves it to local consensus to determine if that's appropriate to use for that article. Usually this should be driven by usage in the RSes behind it, so if (here) its "died by suicide" more than "commits suicide" we should go with that. --Masem (t) 13:37, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A teapot tempest: "Committed suicide" has been standard English usage for eons. The 'legality' of suicide in various contexts is linguistically irrelevant. – Sca (talk) 19:39, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Very much aware that it is a minority of editors that seem to want to push away from "committed" this hence the RFC to affirm that consensus of editors have no problem with "committed" when it is appropriate. --Masem (t) 22:01, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • For discussion of any potential blurb, quoting from suicide:

    The normal verb in scholarly research and journalism for the act of suicide is commit.[40][41] Some advocacy groups recommend using the terms completed suicide, took his/her own life, died by suicide, or killed him/herself instead of committed suicide.[42][43][44][45][46] The Associated Press Stylebook recommends avoiding "committed suicide" except in direct quotes from authorities.[47] Opponents of commit argue that it implies that suicide is criminal, sinful, or morally wrong.[48]

    47.155.96.47 (talk) 19:47, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment McAfee has already rolled off RD (he was on for less than a day). Davey2116 (talk) 23:36, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) ICC World Test Championship Final

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Article: 2021 ICC World Test Championship Final (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In cricket, New Zealand defeat India to win the first World Test Championship Final (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In cricket, New Zealand defeat India to win the inaugural World Test Championship Final
Alternative blurb II: ​ In cricket, New Zealand (captain Williamson pictured) defeat India to win the inaugural World Test Championship Final
Alternative blurb III: ​ In cricket, New Zealand defeat India on the reserve day of the 2021 ICC World Test Championship Final.
News source(s): The Guardian, ICC, BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: no prose on the match yet, but will come and I'll hopefully add some later. Not ITN/R, but maybe it will become so?  — Amakuru (talk) 17:48, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • I would change "first" to "inaugural", but in any event I support in principle making this an ITNR. However, I must oppose on quality given that Days 3 through 6 are empty.  – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 19:46, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I see that the match prose has not been updated. If no one updates it by later tonight, I will give it a go. Congratulations New Zealand. Ktin (talk) 20:23, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Ktin: I've got as far as lunch on day 3 so far... will resume tomorrow morning if nobody else picks it up by then! Day 4 was a washout, so around 2.5 days of play left to cover, depending how detailed we want to go.  — Amakuru (talk) 23:20, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Amakuru: done. Prose for days 4, 5, and 6 added. Looks good imo to go to homepage. Ktin (talk) 04:54, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This is not the place to discuss if this should be listed as an ITNR item and posting the conclusion of the inaugural tournament wouldn't make a strong argument for it. I think we'd have to wait for at least a couple of years to see how this tournament develops to make a step forward towards adding it to the ITNR list. As for this nomination, I'd like to support it as inaugural tournament once the article on the final is sufficiently expanded.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:05, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question the ICC Men's T20 World Cup is already ITN/R what makes the ICC World Test Championship different? --LaserLegs (talk) 02:10, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Different formats of the same game. Former takes around 3-4 hours while the latter takes 5 days to get a result. Sherenk1 (talk) 03:09, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    T20 is a form of the game invented in 2001 to attract easily-bored modern sports fans with a "get as many runs as you can in the lesser of 120 "pitches" or 10 outs" format instead of 20 outs in 5 days. This and the 2-outfielder rule makes big hits like homers more frequent (there's also a 3rd length which was invented late 20th century when they jazzed it up by crippling the outfield and speeding the game to like 1 to 9 p.m.). Test is the pure, original, 1870s form of the game that takes at least 30 hours of gametime if they draw from running out of days (which is often, Tests were once untimed and England vs South Africa '39 lasted 12 days with score of 1,011 to 970 and only 35 of the 40 outs happened before they cancelled the game cause they were about to miss the ride home). So a tournament of Tests would take like 2 years and give them hardly any time for regular season Tests, thus they decided that from now on every Test between top 9 teams will add x points for winning, y for depleting your last out while tied and consolation points for being able to force the game to run out of days and every 2 years the top 2 willplay a new "Test champion of the world for 2 years game". (so like the derided college football format but cricket this time so no one complains) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 06:59, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Uh, yeah, sort of. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 09:04, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The main reason it's not ITNR is because this is the first tournament, and it was created after the ITNR list was created/last updated. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:15, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I suppose it remains to be seen whether this ends up being a much-loved event or a derided piece of fluff like the 2005 ICC Super Series. Perhaps they'll tweak the format next time, it certainly seems like a series would be better than a single match, which almost ended up being rained out. But personally I think this sort of thing is being overly harsh. Test cricket is the pinnacle of the game, and having a decider between the top two doesn't seem a bad idea to me. And we got lucky this time that this one was a genuinely exciting match that could have gone either way.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:22, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Why don't they play from Sunday or Monday to Friday with 2 rain compensation days instead of 1 (on the weekend) if the 5th day doesn't have a rainless 5-day amount of play time? Or make the Final 7 days even if there's no weather delay? And start slightly earlier than normal and stay at the field or player lunch area till it appears there's no chance the weather and/or natural light will allow future play today so everyone can go home? Or they could switch to regular start times if that won't risk inability to play the 5-day no-delay amount of hours. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:44, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Almost there. Prose for Day 5 is left. Sherenk1 (talk) 03:11, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Done! Prose for day 4,5, and 6 added! Looks good imo. Ktin (talk) 04:53, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The article is in good shape and I also suggested an alt blurb saying New Zealand defeated India on the reserve day (sixth day) of the ICC World Test Championship given the fact that the final was interrupted due to rain and 2 of those days were completely washed out. I would like to see Kyle Jamieson picture in ITN who was awarded the player of the match in WTC final.Abishe (talk) 05:05, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Abishe: unfortunately we don't seem to have any images of Jamieson available. Unless anyone knows someone who attended the game and took a snap? A friend of mine was supposed to be there on day one, but it was rained off unfortunately......  — Amakuru (talk) 09:58, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Amakuru: Ah, never mind its okay and I am glad that we can just stick with the blurb only. Abishe (talk) 10:27, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support pending fixes (but not blurb 2) - Significant event in a significant world sport. Still little fixes needed: article currently still has a citation error, and it has no mention of it being the first or inaugural, which is a major shortcoming. But the reserve day is too trivial a detail to go on ITN front page, especially since its significance will be meaningless to many readers. Adpete (talk) 05:21, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is in good shape. Significant event (and I can confirm that there are a lot of sleep-deprived people in New Zealand today). Schwede66 06:14, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Schwede66: enjoy the celebrations, it's richly deserved particularly after NZ came so close in the one-day world cup two years ago as well. And @Ktin, Abishe, and Lugnuts: thanks for the updates!  — Amakuru (talk) 06:37, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Amakuru: - no problem. Just doing a quick proof-read and there seems to be info missing on the rest of day 3. Ends with "India were 211/7 at lunch" and then day four starts with NZ being 101/2! Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 06:40, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, I've finished those bits off just now. Should be about ready to go now. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 07:53, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Schwede66: Congrats and well deserved! Enjoy the celebrations. Ktin (talk) 14:50, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Great work done overnight (UK time) to add all the summary. I've added some reactions to the lead. Great to see NZ win this! Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 06:32, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on article quality. One of the ITN criteria is for an article to be well-written.To me the prose summaries don't look particularly well-written. Some examples; from the day 6 summary - Watling is mentioned as the NZ wicket-keeper three times, which seems excessive, and there is inconsistency between the hyphenation of wicket-keeper in those descriptions. From day 5 - a couple of mentions of "leg before the wicket" in full, could be shortened and abbreviated after first use. Day 5 ends with India on 64 for 2 but Day 6 begins with India on 62 for 2.... There's a lot in these daily summaries that could be done overall to tighten and improve the writing, cut out redundancy etc. --Bcp67 (talk) 06:52, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I've fixed all the over-use of "wicketkeeper" and "leg before the wicket". Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 08:06, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I've also had a bit of a copy-edit for days 5 and 6, tweaking bits that were unencyclopedic or giving value judgements in Wikipedia's voice.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:51, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Suppport now - some excellent work there to improve the article, and it's well worth ITN now, good coverage of the match. --Bcp67 (talk) 09:10, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Bcp67. Happy to fix any other issues. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 10:34, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I've also tried to do a bit of re-writing and improve the wording, I'm always happiest when an edit of mine removes characters from an article! --Bcp67 (talk) 10:40, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Apple Daily

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Article: Apple Daily (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Hong Kong, the newspaper Apple Daily is forced to close by the government. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Hong Kong, the pro-democracy newspaper Apple Daily closes, after being accused of violating the national security law
News source(s): Guardian, BBC, NYTimes, WSJ, Time, NBC, CBS, Fox, WaPo
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Noteworthy development in China reported by multiple reliable sources worldwide. - Indefensible (talk) 17:39, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment It seems like last week's raid and arrests are more important than the actual closure. I don't know if the blurb can reflect the events immediately preceding and logically leading to the newspaper's closure but that seems to be the only way of telling why this is notable.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:23, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Oppose – Widely covered, but the actual closure of the paper has been a foregone conclusion for days. Note Guardian headline: "Apple Daily’s demise comes as no surprise." – Sca (talk) 22:28, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    An unexpected or surprising nature of an event is one criterion for newsworthiness. – Sca (talk) 22:22, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    It is? Where does it say that in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:In_the_news#Criteria? The words "unexpected" and "surprising" do not show up in the guidelines. - Indefensible (talk) 22:30, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This is the clearest indication yet that the 2020 'security law' has ended freedom of speech in Hong Kong. The article has a decent section on the raid and closure. The rest of the article suffers from recentism, but is sufficiently well-referenced to post. However we need to be careful with the wording of the blurb - 'forced to close by the government' is not quite what happened here. The police raided their offices, arrested their leaders, and froze their assets, but the government can claim that it didn't directly force the paper to close. Adding altblurb. Modest Genius talk 11:48, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support captivating Hong Kong right now. Banedon (talk) 13:07, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb. The raid last week isn't that significant comparing to the closure, the raid didn't get that much attention since it's not the first time (first time is last year), but closing the paper just a few days after the police raided is significant. On the day of the raid, no one foresaw that the paper would close in a few days. It is quite a clear indication of Chinese government suppressing freedom of press in Hong Kong with the national security law. Sun8908Talk 13:21, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb it's in the news, article meets minimum quality standards, and readers are interested (10k page views yesterday). Levivich 15:50, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Just an anti-mainland China newspaper gets shutdown there because of disinformation. It's nothing unusual and nothing uncalled for. STSC (talk) 17:02, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • You are incorrect on several points. Individuals at the company were accused of "collusion with foreign powers," nothing to do with "disinformation." Some still haven't actually been charged with anything. It is unusual in HK; Next Digital is the test case. It is uncalled for in that only individuals were charged and the entire company's assets were frozen, preventing workers from being paid. 104.218.65.22 (talk) 17:35, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The newspaper has long been known of spreading disinformation on Hong Kong and then it called for foreign powers to impose sanctions on communist China. "Unusual in HK"? The British colonial government did the similar thing by banning the pro-communist newspapers during 1967 anti-colonial rule protests. And it's not uncalled for to freeze a company's assets if there's evidence of crime-related assets. STSC (talk) 21:20, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
IMHO the legitimacy of the regimes in concern matters in this case. -- Patrickov (talk) 04:24, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mila Ximénez

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Article: Mila Ximénez (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): RTVE
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Beloved Spanish gossip journalist and TV personality. I've improved her article and it's ready to be posted. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 13:56, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 22

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology


(Posted) RD: René Robert

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Article: René Robert (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Canadian hockey player. 12 seasons in the NHL. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 23:11, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Parassala B. Ponnammal

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Article: Parassala B. Ponnammal (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times of India
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: 2 citations needed. 173.77.201.83 (talk) 18:19, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 21

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Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports


(Posted) Tamanofuji Shigeru

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Article: Tamanofuji Shigeru (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sponichi
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Sumo wrestler. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 03:18, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Carl Nassib

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Carl Nassib (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Carl Nassib becomes the first active player to publicly come out as gay in the National Football League. (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times, BBC, The Independent
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Some people complain there aren't enough everyday life blurbs. —Bagumba (talk) 16:53, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Diego Cortez

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Article: Diego Cortez (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ARTnews
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Just needs to be updated and needs the person template. 173.77.201.83 (talk) 18:22, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Usman Kakar

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Article: Usman Kakar (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Geonews
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Looks fine to me IMO. 173.77.201.83 (talk) 18:25, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Tiit Madisson

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Article: Tiit Madisson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ERR
Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Needs template and could use a little work (plus update). 173.77.201.83 (talk) 18:27, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Tom Kurvers

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Article: Tom Kurvers (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: NHL defenseman. Lung cancer. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 01:46, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've added sources to the article, his career statistics are somewhat sourced although I did find and added this 1 but I'm not sure if that's WP:RS. --Vacant0 (talk) 13:21, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Mamady Keïta

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Article: Mamady Keïta (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Guinéenews
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Guinean drummer. Played the djembeAllegedlyHuman (talk) 01:41, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Swedish government collapse

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2021 Swedish government crisis (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Swedish government loses a no-confidence vote and collapses, triggering a crisis. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Stefan Löfven (pictured) is ousted as prime minister of Sweden after a vote of no confidence.
News source(s): The Guardian, The Local Sweden, CNN
Credits:

Article updated
 -Twistedaxe (talk) 14:55, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - HoG being outed in any country is a big deal, and this is our first no confidence outing. Don't like the proposed blurb, added altblurb. Gaioa (T C L) 15:38, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - This is a major historical event in Sweden as it's the first time a Prime Minister was ousted by the parliament. Manvswow (talk) 15:43, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until the new PM is selected.  – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 15:57, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait per John M Wolfson. The ITNR item is the change, and the change hasn't happened yet. --LaserLegs (talk) 16:02, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The PM has not actually changed yet(he is now an acting/caretaker PM). The notability here seems to be that a Swedish PM has never been removed this way before. When the replacement takes office that will be posted as ITNR- I might suggest that this proceed as a regular nomination. 331dot (talk) 16:05, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    You're correct in Stefan Löfven being the interim PM, however, there is no longer a clear majority that supports Stefan Löfven as PM. That's what makes this a government crisis. Löfven has a week to declare a snap election or resign as PM, he'd still be the interim PM in the mean time but a new government has to be "developed" by the Speaker of the Swedish Riksdag that has majority support. It's a historic event in the sense that a Swedish PM never being ousted before and at the same time being a major event in Swedish politics because there is no majority for any government alternative at the moment making a snap election the most likely outcome of the situation. In comparision to U.S politics, this would be just as big as the impeachment of a president being successful, well minus the fact that the president can't make talk with the senate and congress for support to continue being president. Manvswow (talk) 16:22, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Unless Vänsterpartiet (Left Party) agrees to make a new government with Stefan Löfven in exchange that he lets go of his proposed market rents, then the Riksdag majority will stay right-wing for the most part. Twistedaxe (talk) 16:33, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support was about to nominate this myself. It confirms that either way a head of state will change, either through an election or an agreement of a new government leader, therefore just as notable as any other election, coup d'état, coronation etc. Might be worth adding it's the country's first such event. Abcmaxx (talk) 16:18, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait I would prefer to wait until he finally resigns and a successor is appointed, or already nominate the hypothetical elections if he decides to dissolve the Swedish parliament. However, this is not the first vote of no-confidence of censure to be passed (or at least I can't see if there are any differences with the 2018 one). _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:12, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until the new prime minister is known. I don't think the no-confidence vote by itself should be posted.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:15, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is this an idiomatic use of the word "crisis?" While unusual for Sweden, this is routine in parliamentary systems, correct? GreatCaesarsGhost 18:28, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    If you call this idiomatic, then you should check out the 2014 Swedish government crisis. This is bigger than that. Manvswow (talk) 19:12, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
See, that's what I was asking. Venezuela literally had two concurrent presidents giving conflicting orders; that's a crisis. A no-confidence vote is a routine act of a functioning government. It's big news, but the Swedes aren't stockpiling canned goods and boarding up windows. `GreatCaesarsGhost 01:10, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
While "crisis" has meanings open to interpretation, I point out that "constitutional crisis" does not, and Sweden's VONC is the latter. So replace "government" with "constitutional" if it's moved, not that it is necessarily pertinent. Kingsif (talk) 03:14, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait. It would make sense to post now if the no-confidence vote was going to be start a long drawn-out period of coalition negotiations. But it appears they have exactly one week to either form a new coalition or call elections. Let's post once we know what the outcome is, it won't take long. Modest Genius talk 18:32, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait – Until a successor is at least named, if not actually confirmed. Per Simeonovski, Genius, Wolfson. – Sca (talk) 18:40, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Alt On top of everything above, he's smiling in that picture, sends the wrong (as in mixed) message. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:50, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support post now, and then update (or simply post a new blurb) when the next episode happens. Banedon (talk) 04:46, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there a better blurb than government collapses triggering a crisis? To Americans "government collapsed triggering a crisis" sounds like the government lost a lot to all de facto power to do anything cause some disagreement or coup or war or some poorly worded constitution parts caused a dysfunction of crisis proportions or something banana republicy like that. Hey if you want to make "constitution says legislature picks their own leader whenever they want" and ">50%" sound like a junta that's your right but maybe could just say the PM's party coalition collapsed or he lost a confidence vote or something like that. Successful impeachment 1. Is explicitly in the constitution 2. Requires far, far more unlikely yea percents than government "collapsing" which just needs >50% which could happen from as little as a coalition collapsing from 1 dude dying or changing his mind etc. Sometimes governments of highly democratic and rich nations even collapse themselves on purpose to get more seats or at least move next forced election later. 3. Successful impeachment of U.S. President has also never happened in quarter millennium history while Sweden was fused with Norway for a lot of that time and king had more power than prime minister till c. 19th century. 4. this kind of thing isn't that unusual even in highly democratic and rich nations right? (I don't mind if this is posted BTW) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 08:04, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • There's already an altblurb that avoids the 'government ... collapses' phrasing. In parliamentary systems, a vote of no confidence is unusual but not unheard of, see list of prime ministers defeated by votes of no confidence. Threats to hold such a vote are far more common than actually succeeding at one. It's a way for the parliamentary opposition to force a new election or the end of an existing coalition, either because by-elections have changed the composition of the parliament since the government formed, or because the government's behaviour has alienated some of their previous supporters (most often parties in a coalition falling out, which is what happened here). Recent successful examples are Spain 2018, Canada 2011, and Sweden 2018 - Löfven was also the PM in the latter case. I can't think of another example where the same PM was brought down twice. The government intentionally calling a snap election would never be referred to as a 'collapse'. Hope that helps. Modest Genius talk 11:16, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Alt could do if a better photo of him is available. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:11, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 
Lots of options on Commons [8]. Maybe this one? Modest Genius talk 14:18, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Now that's reasonably approximating a serious look of concern! InedibleHulk (talk) 20:09, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

June 20

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Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports


RD: Jeanne Lamon

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Article: Jeanne Lamon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Canadian/American violinist who led Toronto's famed Tafelmusik Baroque Orchestra for more than three decades

RD: Anatoly Lysenko

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Article: Anatoly Lysenko (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Tass
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Well sourced (missing a few citations) but close to good. 173.77.201.83 (talk) 18:32, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose article is a stub, with only two sentences on his career. Career section needs significant expansion- if he was active for 62 years like the article suggests, there must be way more content available on his career. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:18, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Too stubby. Perhaps materials from his (much longer) Russian wikibio can be translated and added? --PFHLai (talk) 13:23, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Luis del Sol

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Article: Luis del Sol (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Marca
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Spanish footballer and football manager. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 02:11, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Irene Mambilima

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Article: Irene Mambilima (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ZNBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Incumbent Chief Justice of Zambia. Died unexpectedly on a business trip to Cairo. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 01:55, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 2021 French Grand Prix

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2021 French Grand Prix (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In motorsport, Max Verstappen wins the French Grand Prix. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, BBC, Der Spiegel, de Volkskrant, Le Monde, The Associated Press
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Article has been expanded to a relatively complete state with a large number of reliable sources. While it doesn't award any more points than any other race in the championship, the French Grand Prix is the original Grand Prix motor race, having first been held 115 years ago. (talk) 12:28, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to withdraw this nomination. I realise that my reasoning for nominating may have been somewhat WP:POINTy about the often poor quality of sourcing in sport-related articles. Sorry for wasting anybody's time. I think I need a wikibreak. HumanBodyPiloter5 HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 12:04, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as a terrifying sports ticker precedent that would open the floodgates to nominations for just about any single non-title-winning sports event. As noted in the nom, the French GP is no more or less worthy than any other GP and we have the F1 overall winner and constructor at ITNR. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 12:08, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • It may sound a bit strange, but as the nominator I don't particularly disagree with you. While formally my nomination presumably counts as supporting its inclusion, I primarily nominated it because I wanted other editors to have the opportunity to discuss it. I am ultimately neutral on the matter. The Indy 500 is also listed at ITNR, which is a similarly old event which forms a round of larger championship. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 12:14, 21 June 2021 (UTC)HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 12:28, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) 2021 Armenian parliamentary election

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Article: 2021 Armenian parliamentary election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the Armenian parliamentary election, the ruling Civil Contract, led by Nikol Pashinyan (pictured) wins the majority of seats in the National Assembly. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: The article is not too bad, but there is room for improvement. I'm working on it. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 10:41, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Elections are ITN/R. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:24, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Gianna Rolandi

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Article: Gianna Rolandi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): parterre.com
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Known as a coloratura soprano in the opera world in her prime. News of her death is new, - there will be more. The article was written with love in 2006, so many sources were gone, but others additionally there, and some detail too much anyway. Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:56, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Alex Hesegem

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Article: Alex Hesegem (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Kompas
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Vice Governor of Papua. We already had two of these in the past six months: Soedardjat Nataatmadja on 6 December last year and Klemen Tinal on 21 May. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 06:56, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2021 U.S. Open

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Article: 2021 U.S. Open (golf) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In golf, Jon Rahm wins the U.S. Open (Post)
News source(s): *New York Times
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 Compy90 (talk) 22:31, June 20, 2021 (UTC)

Support Don't be so literal. If you read the rest of the sentence you cited, you'll find "but any contentious statements must have a source." In any case, there is no reason not to wait an hour or two in service to accomplishing the entire point of the project -- quality. GreatCaesarsGhost 14:34, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mike Bailey (weatherman)

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Article: Mike Bailey (weatherman) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [9]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australian weatherman, needs work Stephen 04:05, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 19

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

  • Six people are critically wounded as a man intentionally drove his pickup truck into a group of cyclists taking part in a charity bike ride in Show Low, Arizona. The driver is shot and arrested. The motive behind the attack is unknown so far. (BBC News)

Politics and elections


(Posted) RD: Champ

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Article: Champ and Major (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Statement by POTUS and FLOTUS, CNN, The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Count Iblis (talk) 16:45, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You are free to propose the article for deletion if it does not meet the criteria, or propose changing the RD criteria to exclude animals or reestablish a super-notability criteria. 331dot (talk) 22:18, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I had. If 'Champ' had been known for something other than being the pet of a famous person, as could be the case with an animal actor, it might have been OK, but IMO this panders to twee emotions. And BTW, how do two 'supports' (including yours) constitute consensus? – Sca (talk) 12:53, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Notability is not at issue for RDs so no consensus is required on that point. As I said, you are free to go to AFD. If you are arguing that the quality is poor, that's different. 331dot (talk) 13:07, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nevertheless, the item was railroaded in. – Sca (talk) 13:16, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Railroaded" suggests a nefarious intent or bad faith that does not seem to be the case. There is no arbitrary minimum discussion period here, and unless you are arguing a quality issue, there was no procedural violation here. So I respectfully but strongly disagree with the use of the term "railroaded". 331dot (talk) 15:01, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing nefarious intended. What was meant was "a procedure conducted in haste without due consideration," as in the fourth definition in Wiktionary. – Sca (talk) 18:21, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Muboshgu Did you genuinely just compare one of the most important African politicians of the 20th century with a dog? FFS. Black Kite (talk) 23:19, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Black Kite, had you heard of Kaunda before he died? I hadn't, but did not take my lack of knowledge to mean he was "not notable". – Muboshgu (talk) 23:28, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I had. If you are anywhere near my age and were familiar with African politics (and even international politics involving Africa), Kaunda would have been a very notable figure. Black Kite (talk) 23:33, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm probably younger than you, and not interested in African politics. My point was that for our purposes here, they're both living organisms with articles, and therefore RD material. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:49, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, that's my point, really. I love my pets, but when Wikipedia consders that a random dog is equally as important as a world politician, perhaps we ought to consider WTAF we're actually doing here, do you not think? Black Kite (talk) 23:59, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not a random dog, it's a dog that receives significant coverage in independent reliable sources, because it is the dog of a world leader. No equivalency is being drawn here with other article subjects. If you feel the dog is not notable, you are free to propose the article's deletion. When RD was expanded to anything alive with an article, this was considered. 331dot (talk) 01:04, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 
Speaking of 'not random' dogs, Hitler had a German shepherd too, you know. →
Would 'Blondi' have qualified for RD? – Sca (talk) 14:53, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Any article about something alive qualifies for posting to RD, so yes, Blondi would have qualified. 331dot (talk) 15:03, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Was this a deliberate invocation of Godwin's law? – Muboshgu (talk) 15:25, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm tempted to hat everything after "Posted" as an entirely unnecessary waste of time. Sca knows (or should know) that animals are eligible for RD.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:36, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Gimmie a break, I'm retired. - Sca (talk) 18:49, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

331dot, you'll want to keep a sharp eye on the status of Muja, then. He's said to be 85. – Sca (talk) 18:49, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 18

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports


(Posted) RD: S. Ramesan Nair

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Article: S. Ramesan Nair (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times of India
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian poet of the Malayalam film industry. COVID-19. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 23:10, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Ryan Crouser

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Article: Ryan Crouser (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Ryan Crouser sets a World Record in shot put at 23.37 m (76 ft 8 in). (Post)
News source(s): BBC, CNN, Reuters, NBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: This is breaking of a world record that has stood for 31 years. We usually post breaking of long-standing records in athletics. Tone 09:00, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but this will take some time. We posted marathod immediately, for example. Also, look at the sources below, CNN doesn't seem to mind the ratification part. --Tone 11:26, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. Ratification by the IAAF is a slow bureaucratic process that can take months. E.g. when Mondo Duplantis broke the 6.17m pole vault record on February 8, 2020, it took them until June 29, 2020 to ratify it. We should post stories like these when they actually make the news, not when the bureaucrats finish their paperwork. Nsk92 (talk) 11:43, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
[11], [12], [13], that should cover it. --Tone 11:26, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Iran election

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Article: 2021 Iranian presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Ebrahim Raisi (pictured) is elected president of Iran. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Ebrahim Raisi (pictured) becomes president of Iran.
Alternative blurb II: Ebrahim Raisi (pictured) becomes president-elect of Iran.
News source(s): NYT, Al Jazeera, AP, BBC, Guardian. Reuters
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Many strong would-be opponents were disqualified from running, and turnout was very low. Do we mention this in the blurb? Davey2116 (talk) 09:02, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sa.vakilian As this event (a change in head of government) is on the recurring events list, importance is not at issue. 331dot (talk) 13:40, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Semantics. "Is elected" could be taken to imply the same thing. Article: "Raisi won with 17.8 million popular votes out of 28 million votes." – Sca (talk) 14:28, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree that it is semantics. "Elected" means one has won an election, not that they have actually assumed the office. There is a difference between "Joe Biden was elected" and "Joe Biden becomes president". 331dot (talk) 14:37, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note Alt2. – Sca (talk) 14:51, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed with 331dot. Alt1 is outright wrong (one "becomes" president on the day of assuming the office and, in virtually all countries, that is when being sworn in). Alt2 is sheer avoidance to accept the legitimacy of the election.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:49, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Aknell4, The Rambling Man, and GreatCaesarsGhost: At present almost all of the article's content has reliable sources.--Seyyed(t-c) 06:51, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good to me. --Aknell4 (talk · contribs) 14:16, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm still an oppose. Both of my prior concerns remain. GreatCaesarsGhost 22:04, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the original blurb. It seems like the election result is valid despite the low turnout which means that Raisi is elected president of Iran. Using "becomes" implies that he's been installed by force but that's not the case. Of course, there are many domestic and foreign organisations, including Amnesty International, complaining about what happened before and during the election but it's irrelevant here.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:47, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Au contraire, mon ami. "Becomes" carries no implication of force, it simply denotes a process of change.
Cf. Webster:
1: to come into existence.
2: to undergo change or development.
Sca (talk) 12:23, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I know very well what it means and it was intentionally proposed to contest the legitimacy of the election (disqualified candidates, low turnout and similar nonsense echoed by Biden's administration). There's no reason to replace the standard wording "is elected" with "becomes" when he was elected president by the populace and not in any other way.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:32, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I agree to disagree with you, and stand by my view that "becomes" is NPOV in standard English usage. (AGF!) But it seems that given the state of the article, this point may be moot. – Sca (talk) 15:39, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I simply follow your own reasoning above to deduce that "becomes" intends to replace "is elected" to highlight the case of "patently pantomimic 'election'". Other than that, there's nothing wrong with that word even though we don't use it in blurbs on presidential elections.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:08, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Past practice doesn't always dictate present usage. Each issue must be judged on its merits by reasonable users. Au revoir.Sca (talk) 22:03, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality. The article is a real mess at the moment, with lots of uncited material and also a lack of analysis of the result. I'm sceptical this will make it, but if it does then I'd favour the original blurb. We just discussed all this in the Syrian case, and there was no consensus that we should deviate from our usual election blurb format, which leaves the criticial analysis on legitimacy and turnout etc to the article.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:57, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt2 - I think the quality is good enough as of this writing (no tags except for the section needs expansion for the election, but I think the section has enough to be useful, and most importantly is cited). Prefer alt2; alt1 is incorrect; alt0 implies a free and fair election; alt2 avoids that implication. Levivich 16:45, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Marked as ready - This looks ready to post... though I personally find the use of the word "elected" to be truthiness in this case... more like he was selected. FWIW Alt2 follows the same precedent we use for election blurbs. Inauguration is another matter. - Floydian τ ¢ 18:08, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unmarked as ready Still too many uncited statements in the Candidate list and Opinion polls sections, I'm afraid.  – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 18:18, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Please indicate what is unready, perhaps I am missing it. I see nothing wrong with the article. Opinion polls are worthless, try looking outside Iran. - Floydian τ ¢ 23:00, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Floydian: The "Candidates" section lists many candidates without citation; if such sources cannot be found then the entries must be removed per the BLP policy on unsourced contentious statements. Otherwise the article, while a bit of a shambles and low on prose, does not appear to have any Main Page-hindering defects (this isn't FAC, after all).  – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 00:34, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @John M Wolfson: I have done a couple of edits covering your concerns. Pleas check if it's OK. --Mhhossein talk 07:23, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This is getting stale and frankly the remaining CNs could be resolved by just commenting out their associated assertions. Half of them are in the Candidates subsection Declined to run, and what does that even mean anyway? Wouldn't that include nearly every Iranian that has a wiki article? The Rejected subsection is a {{incomplete list}} and if references for more than half of the entries cannot be found, then I seriously question its inclusion. The Announced but not registered seems to suggest that they were not, actually, candidates and as such these should probably be removed from the Candidates section. The bits of encyclopedic information that would be lost from the election article would be better suited in respective BLPs, because they add only marginal information to the election article.130.233.213.61 (talk) 05:21, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Needs text updateThis nomination is only 2 days old - not stale. This article still needs a Results section. Joofjoof (talk) 06:21, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - In general the article seems OK. - STSC (talk) 10:25, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Still not ready. Where is the prose on the election itself, and the results and aftermath?  — Amakuru (talk) 10:29, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Getting stale fast. – Sca (talk) 13:06, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Everyone saying that this is getting stale or there's work that have to be done, but none is contributing. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 13:13, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Honestly I have no idea what everyone is talking about. There's no prose?? Of course there's prose. There's no results section?? Yes there is! There's no aftermath?? The election was two days ago! What "aftermath"?! Not every sentence needs an inline citation in order for this to be posted to the main page. Anyone who really thinks it is contentious info about a BLP that an Iranian politician registered in an election (as opposed to bluesky) can go ahead and remove the uncited entries. A country changed its President: this is frickin' news and the article is fine. I've re-tagged it Ready. Levivich 13:34, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • An election is a choice - the whole country is deciding to proceed one direction or another. This is why elections are per se significant. The article has not one word differentiating the candidates from one another. There's mention of a debate having occurred, but no mention of issues. Most of the article is an explanation of the mechanics of the election. GreatCaesarsGhost 13:49, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • Just googled "what does Ebrahim Raisi's election mean" and found a half dozen solid sources on impact. GreatCaesarsGhost 13:52, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • GCG's point on "who are candidates" is a good point: even if just a section with a lot of "main"/"seealso", I'd expect a short summary blurb about each of the primary candidates in the table as to understand the significance of the results. At this stage, I don't know if having to get into the issues has to be covered, but we should know who was running and why --Masem (t) 13:55, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          • I thought this was ITN not FAC. Also some of you don't seem to understand this was not a real election. An issues section? What differentiates the candidates? In an article about an Iranian election?! Lol! (That doesn't exist in any of the other Iran election articles, you may notice.) Levivich 14:13, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
            • It's not FAC, but it is something going on main page and is supposed to represented "our best work". The only "developed" section on the article right now is the process of how the election works, which is not unique to this specific election. (And no, we're neutral, we should not be writing this that "this was not a real election"). Beyond that section, its a sentence or two here and there, a bunch of lists, and a bunch of tables. No real prose. A short section to list the 7-odd candidates with a 4-5 sentence bio for each would not have broken the bank to get it to a postable standard. --Masem (t) 14:58, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
              • I don't know where you got the idea that ITN is supposed to represent our best work, but you didn't get it from WP:ITN, which says Articles are held to a minimum standard of quality.. MINIMUM, not best. Levivich 15:22, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
                • Second bullet of first section of ITN: "To showcase quality Wikipedia content on current events." And in what you're quoting, a "minimum standard of quality" would be the key read from that. In addition, the Main Page of Wikipedia is mean to reflect the best work that Wikipedia can produce - doesn't mean every highlighted link has to be FA, but that required a basic level of quality. That's why we have to nearly repeat every day on ITNC "ITN is not a news ticker" -we don't have to post stories in a timely manner if the article is not up to the quality standards. --Masem (t) 15:32, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support and Ready let's not hold this article to some standard which does not exist. What's there is fine, it's referenced, there is some prose about the results and turnout. The 2021 Somaliland parliamentary election was recently posted without details about candidates or debates and it's not really a country. It's time to post it. --LaserLegs (talk) 14:15, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted as I think it meets the bare minimum for Main Page posting (not much more than that, to be honest, but this isn't FAC). I'm sticking with the original blurb for now as election improprieties are not currently adequately explained in the article to justify anything else; besides, "becomes president-elect" is a clunky and quite frankly stupid way of saying "is elected president". If such electoral improprieties become better expressed/justified the blurb should be adjusted to say "is elected president of Iran in election criticized by international observers" or something to that effect.  – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 14:17, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull. What's the point in us having a discussion and registering our concerns if it's just going to be ignored? The article has zero coverage on the election itself, and the "prose" on the results is just a three sentence summary of the results. The ITN requirements explicitly say the page must "have been substantially updated". Ridiculous.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:26, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Amakuru are you talking about the article on the election or the bio of the pres? Levivich 16:49, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      @Levivich: I'm talking about the election article. It's the same phenomenon we see over and over at ITN with elections and sports tournaments - a reasonably detailed article of what happened prior to the event, but only tabular or very brief coverage of the during and after. What's in the news is the election and the result, not the Iranian electoral system or the Covid provisions, which seem to form the bulk of the prose at present. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 17:04, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      Question: when the Tories win the next UK GE, what would we expect to see in the "results" section before posting? I'm curious because it would be similar to this, an inevitable result with a bit of outrage and disappointment. What more, within a few days, would we be expecting to see? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 17:08, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      Well, we can look back at the last UK election to see what sort of thing we posted at that time: [14] Although the results section in the body did not have prose at that time, there was a decent cited update occupying three paragraphs of the lead - with tidbits such as Corbyn resigning and Swinson losing her seat. If the Iran article had something like that, it'd be fine. Anyway, it looks like everyone thinks I'm being ridiculous so I'll withdraw the "pull" and just register my puzzlement informally instead.  — Amakuru (talk) 17:20, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      I don't think we'd ever expect to see that kind of thing from Iran, would we? I'm not suggesting you're being ridiculous at all, by the way, just curious to see if we're now experiencing a kind of requirement creep on election updates. One imagines (or used to) that the result was the pertinent thing, not the fall-out which could take days/weeks/months/years and hence sits outside the scope of ITN really. Just my opinion, of course. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 17:26, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      I'm in the same board as Amakuru - I won't ask for a pull, but I really think there were easy fixes, not hard to do, that would have alleviated the issue, with existing material out there, such as simply a short paragraphical bio for each of the main candidates, which could have been done before election day. That would have been enough to highlight the main issues in the election and shouldn't have taken more than an hour of work since all 7-8 appear to be notable people. --Masem (t) 17:33, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      That's definitely requirement creep. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 17:47, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      (I don't think you're being ridiculous either.) Levivich 19:06, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • The results prose is adequate as a minimum and combined with the reactions section constitutes substantial updates for the intents and purposes of ITN. There is also coverage on the COVID provisions of the election conduct.  – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 16:51, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      @John M Wolfson: - you said yourself earlier that the article is a "bit of a shambles". Just to be clear, ITN does not permit "shambles" pages to be listed. The purpose of ITN explicitly gives as a remit that we "showcase quality Wikipedia content on current events". If it's not quality, then it shouldn't be posted and there is no requirement to post everything that's nominated, even for ITN/R items.  — Amakuru (talk) 17:07, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The article is no longer in shambles, but he shouldn't be supervoting, either. There quite clearly was not consensus to post. GreatCaesarsGhost 18:31, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think we can safely treat "oppose on quality" !votes act as "support" !votes once the article meets the minimum quality requirements. Mlb96 (talk) 22:29, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No you can't. Why would you assume that a particular editor would think the updates are sufficient when others are actively saying they are not? You can certain disregard earlier quality opposes if more recent votes are universally positive. GreatCaesarsGhost 00:35, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think one can, in fact, treat "oppose on quality" !votes as supports given a level of minimal quality as the current election article possesses. Of course, such !votes must be fairly old and predate salient improvements of the article in question, but it would likely be requirement creep as said above to require anything substantially more in an article than due citations, absence of orange tags, and prose updates in order to post on the Main Page given the time-sensitive nature of ITN, and I say this as someone who thinks of ITN significance independently of the surrounding news cycle.  – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 01:08, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Vekuii Rukoro

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Article: Vekuii Rukoro (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): DW
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Paramount chief of the Herero peopleAllegedlyHuman (talk) 02:24, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Giampiero Boniperti

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Article: Giampiero Boniperti (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Ansa
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Italian footballer, ranked on the FIFA 100 by PeléAllegedlyHuman (talk) 01:55, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Milkha Singh

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Article: Milkha Singh (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times of India, news18
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  19:12, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 17

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology


RD: Shaman Mithru

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Article: Shaman Mithru (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): India Today
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian cinematographer, COVID-19. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 23:14, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Alex Harvill

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Article: Alex Harvill (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS, CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American daredevil, died practicing a motorcycle stunt. 28. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 18:36, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Leroy Jones

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Article: Leroy Jones (American football) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Norfolk State University, The Greenwood Commonwealth
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Some borderline reliable blogs and social media posts reported earlier, but with no death date. It's now reliably sourced per June 17 sources. —Bagumba (talk) 01:06, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted as blurb) RD/Blurb: Kenneth Kaunda

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Article: Kenneth Kaunda (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  First President of Zambia Kenneth Kaunda (pictured) dies at the age of 97. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: 1st and long-time president of Zambia. His article needs a lot of work, so I will be working on it. Maybe he should be nominated for blurb? _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 17:18, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I remember reading about plans for construction of Brasília in the WR, too. I was more interested in things like that than playing marbles in the mud. . – Sca (talk) 21:59, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kust because you don't know his name or his picture is not recognizable to you, doesn't mean it's not important. Read Gotitbro and Kurtis' comments. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:08, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate how he officially founded a modern state, but that modern state never broke into the Top 50, by any global indices I vaguely recall. Good people, surely. But a poor state. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:22, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nom. comment There are currently a maximum of three of us who are trying to improve his article, but I think it is not enough, especially to prevent it from ending up as a stale as it's a pretty large one. So I encourage people to contribute. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:08, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb when article is finalized. Per Jackattack1597 the autocracy section needs attention as some of it reads to me like OR hence no sources JW 1961 Talk 22:42, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb once the article is improved. One of the most prominent African politicians of the 20th century and first head of state who remained in office for 27 years clearly deserves a blurb.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:59, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. Guidelines say one or two "citation needed" tags may not hold up an article, and recent editing efforts have brought it up to that standard. Moscow Mule (talk) 23:07, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Founding father of a nation and a longstanding head of government. Definitely needs a blurb. My opinion on quality is the same as above. --Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 02:46, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment There is an orange verification tag at the top of the page: Articles that are subject to serious issues, as indicated by 'orange'- or 'red'-level tags at either the article level or within any section, may not be accepted for an emboldened link. (WP:ITN)—Bagumba (talk) 06:23, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment (and support blurb) - I've added citations for most of the material that wasn't cited, and also removed some bits that were unencyclopedic, POV or seemed dubious per WP:BLP requirements. I think this is good to go now, but happy to hear of any other issues.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:13, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Amakuru, you saved the article from becoming stale.Jackattack1597 (talk) 12:13, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. There is consensus for a blurb here. 331dot (talk) 09:44, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I checked two sections: Economy and Education and both of them are trash. A copy/paste straight from Britannica, inflammatory words like "ineptness" and "disasters results". A dead link in the economic policies section renders it essentially unreferenced and I looked at page 900 of "Encyclopedia of the Developing World" and it doesn't mention anything that is attributed to it in the article. I mean, the Naftali Bennett posting highlighted that missing refs in BLPs actually doesn't matter: am I just wasting my time? --LaserLegs (talk) 17:17, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) U.S. federal recognition of Juneteenth

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Juneteenth (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ President Biden signs into law recognition of Juneteenth, June 19, as a federal holiday. (Post)
News source(s): Deadline
Credits:
Nominator's comments: The bill has passed Congress, and Biden plans to sign it on 6/17 at 3:30pm ET, so this is preparatory ahead of that signing ceremony. As for why this is important, it is not just the US get an 11th federal holiday, but Juneteenth has been promoted as recognition of the end of slavery in the U.S. and general recognition of of the trials + tribulations of blacks and other minorities in the U.S. It has become more predominate in the wake of last years George Floyd protests. Masem (t) 04:29, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Would be nice if they also added Easter Monday or General Lee surrenders day or independence war starts day or ~Apr 15 tax in the Feb 15-21 to May 25-31 gap. And Random 2-Month Summer Gap Filler Day Observed. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 05:49, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Long-awaited creation of a federal Emancipation Day in the US. I find it pure symbolism, but humanity loves their symbols. I prefer cymbals - Floydian τ ¢ 05:58, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose A lot of exposition, for which there isn't room on the Main Page, is going to be needed to show how this is ITN-worthy. At the end of the day, this is still just the US adding another public holiday (which doesn't even work the same as in many other countries, but I digress). It's not like this is the US government acknowledging slavery happened – obviously they have already. So, I'm not seeing this being particularly transformative at even a national level, and I can't imagine us posting a similar story for any other country. -- tariqabjotu 07:22, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose internal politics. I might change my mind if there are a lot of follow-up stories, but as of right now, this is completely overshadowed by the Geneva summit. Banedon (talk) 07:27, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The most recently established federal holiday was Martin Luther King Jr. Day in 1983, so it's not that often that a new federal holiday is added. The Juneteenth bill can be seen as part of the aftermath of the George Floyd protests. Davey2116 (talk) 08:21, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe not in the US, but once you broaden to every country in the world it really isn't that rare, e.g. in 2020 Iraq made Christmas a public holiday [16]. Banedon (talk) 09:10, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Congress had already recognized the genocide; the president doing so had not happened before. 331dot (talk) 10:34, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Aye, and this time, they've all acknowledged slavery ended (though the trials and tribulations endure) many times each before. InedibleHulk (talk) 10:53, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose A country getting it's 11th official holiday is not in itself notable for this ostensibly international encyclopedia. As for the attrocity propaganda about slavery in the US, what happened there was no doubt tragic, but that happened in a single country to a fairly small number of people compared to the population of the world. Morepower, their "trials and tributations" have been nothing compared to what most people across most countries of the world had suffered in the past few centuries so that's not notable either, in my opinion. Cheers. 212.74.201.238 (talk) 11:24, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This holiday is unknown outside other English-speaking countries. 114.125.29.40 (talk) 12:00, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Shenzhou 12

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Article: Shenzhou 12 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ China has launched three astronauts into orbit to begin occupation of the country's new space station. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Shenzhou 12 launches with three Taikonauts and carries the first crew to dock at the Tiangong space station.
News source(s): BBC, AP, Guardian, dpa
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: China's longest crewed space mission to date and the first in nearly five years. Sherenk1 (talk) 03:46, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Just a bit? Article is barely over 200 words – more or less a stub. – Sca (talk) 12:47, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That's my stereotypical British understatement. Modest Genius talk 13:09, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You're so modest. – Sca (talk) 13:19, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
But not a genius. Modest Genius talk 10:34, 18 June 2021 (UTC) [reply]
And I thought you were a genus by yourself. – Sca (talk) 18:55, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Translation: 330 words. – Sca (talk) 18:52, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

For comparison, here is the state SpaceX Crew-1 was in, when it went on the main page. To my eyes it looks roughly equivalent. (In both cases, the meat of the information is not in the article for that individual vehicle. It's in the article for the program as a whole.) ApLundell (talk) 20:02, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Doing page size counts, that diff for the Crew-1 gets me 9000+ bytes of readable prose, while the current article for Shenzhou 12 is only 4100 bytes. It's definitely still on the short side. --Masem (t) 01:29, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Granted, the "article for the program as a whole" in this case is very bad, and wouldn't get anywhere near the Front Page as a bold link. Whereas the same for Crew-1 is a very good article. There's also no indication in the proposed bold link that is supposed to direct a naïve reader to this supposed article with "the meat of the information", either in this one or in the Crew-I article.130.233.213.61 (talk) 05:50, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 16

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime


(New) RD: Jabu Mabuza

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Article: Jabu Mabuza (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): eNCA, Fin24
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: South African businessman, COVID-19. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 23:24, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(New) RD: John Osmers

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Article: John Osmers (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Dominion Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Anglican bishop in Zambia. COVID-19. Needs a few more sources but looks close. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 23:19, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Vance Trimble

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Article: Vance Trimble (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Washington Post; WCPO-TV (ABC); Northern Kentucky Tribune
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 20:41, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: K. S. Nijhar

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Article: K. S. Nijhar (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): (The Star)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Malaysian politician, MP for Subang PFHLai (talk) 06:24, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Sufficient length and citations. Joofjoof (talk) 02:12, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - the language needs tidying up in places. Phrases such as "To top it off" and "He climbed to the MIC's eminencies" don't seem very encyclopedic in tone. Also, there doesn't seem to be much detail on what he actually did as a politician. There are lots of positions and dates listed, but any landmark achievements or his political points of view would be useful.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:19, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Amakuru is it better now? 173.77.201.83 (talk) 18:00, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The tone is fine now. What about his political opinions and any landmark achievements though? Don't need loads of detail, just something.  — Amakuru (talk) 20:00, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I added in "where he aimed to represent Malays and Indians in Subang and the country. In 2005, he questioned the validity of a memorandum of the DAP Johor State Committee, suggesting that it didn't take into account the view of Malay and Indian communities, and criticized the DAP" into the Politics section from the source there. Maybe this is something? 173.77.201.83 (talk) 21:08, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Riccckyyy and Lim Zhi Hang: Perhaps the updaters have a better idea how to proceed/fix this? --PFHLai (talk) 23:34, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Richard Stolley

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Article: Richard Stolley (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Washington Post; People
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 21:34, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Frank Bonner

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Article: Frank Bonner (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Actor best known for playing Herb Tarlek on WKRP in Cincinnati. Typical actor issues: unsourced filmography, some cns throughout, but nevertheless pretty close to RD shape. Some help would be appreciated. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 19:24, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Janet Malcolm

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Article: Janet Malcolm (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Long-time The New Yorker writer. Needs a few citations but shouldn’t take long. Innisfree987 (talk) 16:54, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 15

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports


(Posted) RD: Robert Quackenbush

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Article: Robert Quackenbush (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times; Publishers Weekly
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Only reported today (June 15); died on May 17 —Bloom6132 (talk) 05:27, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jack B. Weinstein

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Article: Jack B. Weinstein (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Longtime American judge from New York. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 19:47, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Thomas B. Day

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Article: Thomas B. Day (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The San Diego Union-Tribune; San Diego State University
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 06:57, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - Well-sourced article.--SirEdimon Dimmi!!! 02:46, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: The Career section appears to be incomplete. The first paragraph ends with him becoming the President of San Diego State in 1978. The second paragraph starts with his unpopular budget cuts in 1992 and he left for health reasons soon after. What happened in between? Any accomplishments during his 18 years as President? New student programs? Growth of funding for scholarly research? Campus expansions? Having campus facilities named after him? The current coverage on his career, with successes missing, seems a bit too negative. -PFHLai (talk) 05:13, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing: Israel–Palestine crisis

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2021 Israel–Palestine crisis (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT, CNN, AP, BBC, Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: The ceasefire has been broken (which is itself big news) and things can escalate even more from here. Davey2116 (talk) 03:15, 16 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: William vanden Heuvel

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Article: William vanden Heuvel (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 01:22, 16 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 14

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime


(Posted) RD: Wang Chiu-Hwa

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Article: Wang Chiu-Hwa (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Focus Taiwan
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: She was known as the 'Mother of Taiwanese libraries'. PFHLai (talk) 06:05, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Manuel Clavero

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Article: Manuel Clavero (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): La Vanguardia
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Spanish politician who during the Transition was in charge of developing the current system of autonomies. I have been working on it between today and yesterday, but it's not finished yet. The section that talks about his period as assistant minister of regions, I do not know if it's very clear for someone who does not know the Spanish autonomic and constitutional law, so please let me know if clarifications are needed. A review of grammar may be also necessary. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 16:20, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Enrique Bolaños

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Article: Enrique Bolaños (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Confidencial
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former President of Nicaragua. Needs referencing and other revision but this substantial obit should help a lot. Additional assistance especially from Spanish speakers gratefully welcomed! Innisfree987 (talk) 08:00, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mburumba Kerina

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Article: Mburumba Kerina (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Namibian politician with a key role the in the construction of his country. Article seems in good shape. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:26, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 13

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Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections


(Posted) RD: Ashley Henley

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Article: Ashley Henley (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [17]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Murdered politician. It's still on the short side, but I'll work to expand it more on my next break. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:01, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Carol Jarecki

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Article: Carol Jarecki (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 19:32, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ziona

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Article: Ziona (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AJ, BBC, CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian man with 94 children. No, I'm not kidding. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 18:01, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ned Beatty

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Article: Ned Beatty (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Needs major updates and referencing to get to shape. Masem (t) 23:45, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2021 French Open

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Article: 2021 French Open (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In tennis, Barbora Krejčíková wins the Women's Singles and Novak Djokovic wins the Men's Singles at the French Open. (Post)
News source(s): CNN, BBC
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 --SirEdimon Dimmi!!! 21:15, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • That's fine and nominating such articles here is a good way to advertise the need for improvement. The problem is when people think that the ITN/R status is an automatic qualifier that can bypass the quality requirement.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:09, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree that editors are allowed to nominate articles that aren't ready yet, in the hope of drawing more improvements to the article. I've done that myself in the past. But if the nominator knows the quality isn't good enough, that should really be mentioned in the nom comment. Modest Genius talk 14:45, 16 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • My frustration isn't about people nominating before it's ready, it's that they nominate it and just leave it as is, with no effort to try and make it ITN-worthy. And it seems to happen a lot more with sports articles than any other type of article. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:56, 16 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose In addition to lacking a prose update on who won, the article completely leaves out Naomi Osaka's withdrawal, which made bigger news than the finals, as far as I can tell. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:38, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Naftali Bennett, Thirty-sixth government of Israel (Benjamin Netanyahu ousted)

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Articles: Naftali Bennett (talk · history · tag) and Thirty-sixth government of Israel (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Israel, a new government is constituted by a vote of the Knesset, with Naftali Bennett of the New Right replacing Benjamin Netanyahu as prime minister. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Naftali Bennett replaces Benjamin Netanyahu as prime minister of Israel.
Alternative blurb II: Naftali Bennett replaces Benjamin Netanyahu as prime minister of Israel, ending the latter's twelve-year tenure.
Alternative blurb III: Naftali Bennett is selected as Prime Minister of Israel, succeeding Benjamin Netanyahu.
Alternative blurb IV: Naftali Bennett becomes Prime Minister of Israel, ending Benjamin Netanyahu's 12-year tenure.
Alternative blurb V: ​ A new government is formed in Israel, with Naftali Bennett becoming prime minister, ending Benjamin Netanyahu's 12-year tenure.
News source(s): NYT, WaPo, CNN, AP, BBC, Reuters, Al Jazeera
Credits:

Article updated
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: End of the Netanyahu era! And not short enough it was. Davey2116 (talk) 18:01, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)

I agree. I don't think the public interest should be superseded by a few cns. In general, I've always felt such an approach to be a bit dogmatic. El_C 00:55, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull the bold linked article is a BLP with CN tags. The solar eclipse was pulled for some whining at WP:ERRORS this is an actual issue. The bit about increasing visits to west bank "heritage sites" demands a citation. I've not checked the rest of the citations, I hope someone did. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:21, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Prime Minister of Israel is orange tagged bold or not we can't feature that on the MP. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:24, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Prime Minister of Israel" is not featured. --PFHLai (talk) 01:42, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
My removal of unreferenced material was reverted without explanation. It's a BLP, I challenged and removed the unreferenced material, and I was reverted. Does WP:BLP even exist anymore? FYI @Bagumba: --LaserLegs (talk) 17:57, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps Talk:Naftali Bennett would be a better place to discuss these issues with article contents, please? Or the user talk page of the reverting editor, perhaps? --PFHLai (talk) 22:05, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
ARBPIA is a dumpster fire and I'm not going anywhere near it. I called attention to it, even took some action, and consensus is that unreferenced content in BLPs are fine for the MP. Should improve RD turnaround. Good luck. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:08, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Toeti Heraty

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Article: Toeti Heraty (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indonesian poet.

47th G7 summit

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Template:ITN candidate

June 12

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2021 June 12 Template:Cob


(Posted) RD: Getatchew Haile

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Template:ITN candidate

RD: Sanchari Vijay

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Milton Moses Ginsberg

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Mudcat Grant

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Template:ITN candidate

(Closed) Christian Eriksen heart attack

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

I think it should be "Danish footballer Christian Eriksen collapses during a match against Finland at the UEFA Euro 2020 tournament". GiantSnowman 19:22, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 19:25, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
In which case support. GiantSnowman 19:33, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Apart from it being front-page news across the world? GiantSnowman 19:33, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You know that there's more to In The News than getting picked up in a 24 hour news cycle. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:52, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nope. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 20:15, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

RD: Igor Zhelezovski

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Template:ITN candidate

June 11

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2021 June 11 Template:Cob


(Posted) RD: Dame Georgina Kirby

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Taha Karaan

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Template:ITN candidate

(Closed) Pulitzer Prizes

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

  • Support Don't see any issue with notability, and the articles are decent. Also, would anybody else be interested in trying to put the Pullitzers in ITNR? ( The main issue with ITNR is that they are US based, so that might be a major obstacle)Jackattack1597 (talk) 19:03, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment ALT1 is of the correct standard format for ITN blurbs for annual events. Joseph2302 (talk) 19:22, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Arguably, if we were comparing this to other awards, the 2021 awards article is literally just tables without any description. Just checking the refs related to this year's prizes there's at least something to write about the delay, as well as about the special award to the teenager that captured the George Floyd video. --Masem (t) 20:06, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – In the first two proposed blurbs, the comma between journalism and going (" ...journalism, going...") isn't U.S. English punctuation practice, may confuse U.S. readers, and should be dropped. (Also, suggest "American" be replaced by "U.S." as more specific.) – Sca (talk) 12:49, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Masem. The article almost completely consists of tables containing quotes about the winners and we cannot post it in such shape given the number of other articles that were denied because of the same reason. I'm also unsure about its notability and the choice of putting The New York Times in the blurb when Darnella Frazier's recording of the murder of George Floyd makes bigger news. I've checked that the last time we posted this prize was in 2014 and before it in 2010, which clearly indicates that it's not a standard ITN material for some reason. That being said, I'd like to support a blurb mentioning Darnella Frazier instead of The New York Times once the article is substantially improved with a prose update. Otherwise, outright oppose because the routine awarding of this prize is not that notable.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:37, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note/comment: I've struck the first blurb per Joseph and changed "American" to "U.S." per Sca. The comma between "journalism" and "going" is correct; it marks off the middle clause. I added a little more broad characterization of the awards, so the article is plenty well-developed now; it's a quasi-list, as the main thing to say about the awards is who won them, but that's fine. The board's own descriptions which we quote contain plenty of info. I disagree that the Fraser citation is the most significant—it's not even a formal Pulitzer, just a special citation, and it's not what the news coverage has focused most on. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 20:47, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ALT/ALT2 as ready to post as nom. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 20:47, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'Comm(a)ent – The comma between "journalism" and "going" is not correct in U.S. English. If I'm not mistaken, this punctuation is British English practice, ergo ENGVAR. As this is a U.S.-oriented item, U.S.-English punctuation – which wouild definitely not countenance an intervening comma at this point – should be followed and the comma deleted. I'll bet my (retired) journalist's hat on that. TNX. – Sca (talk) 22:55, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    english was my worst subject when i was a student, and i confuse british and u.s. english practices all the time, but i had interpreted "the top honor in U.S. journalism" as a nonrestrictive appositive, which, i believe, is generally set apart by commas in both english variants. i don't have a journalist's hat to bet, though. also, i agree with using "U.S." instead of "American". dying (talk) 00:47, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    English was my best subject, from first grade to getting my reporter's hat to whatever I'm doing now. It's a perfectly cromulent comma. And that's coming from a Canadian, bilingual in British and American. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:52, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No it wasn't, compadre, as there was no textual reason to pause there. But since the offending original blurb has been stricken and Alt1 revised, the point is now moot. Such a relief. – Sca (talk) 13:19, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The appositive can be either separated with two or without commas and leaving one comma is incorrect. This is a rule in all Indo-European languages.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:41, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Catching up on this thread. Just for my knowledge, what is the consensus on the comma between 'awarded' and 'with'? Thanks. Ktin (talk) 14:43, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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(Posted) RD: Ei-ichi Negishi

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(Closed) Ongoing: UEFA Euro 2020

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I am fairly sure we posted the World Cup; I disagree with that too, but it is at least a global event. 331dot (talk) 17:26, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We do post the World Cup to ongoing, but that is due to its scale being more international, not just limited to one region. This can have its results ITNR, but it doesn't make sense to have a regional event ongoing. --Masem (t) 19:36, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
World Cup is an uphill battle to fight. At least it does involve the entire world. UEFA European Championship not so much. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:39, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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(Posted) RD: Ashok Panagariya

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(Posted) RD: Geoffrey Edelsten

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June 10

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(Posted) RD: Larisa Shoygu

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RD: Buddhadeb Dasgupta

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  • Comment films and awards sections need citing, as does Family section. For someone with so many appearances and awards, there must also be more to be said about his career. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:17, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 9

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RD: Helmud Hontong

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  • Comment: There is a gap in coverage, with hardly any materials on his political career as a legislator and then as vice-regent. Apart from winning 3 elections, what happened between 2009 and his recent opposition to the mine developments? --PFHLai (talk) 18:11, 16 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Gottfried Böhm

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Template:ITN candidate Thank you very much for the nomination. I feel he should have more detail, but am busy today until Monday. There's much more in German if someone is less busy. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:40, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Mongolian presidential election

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(Closed) Ring-shaped sunrise

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I have changed the image to an eclipse of very similar configuration to Toronto's view and a caption should say similar eclipse pictured or something like that. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:51, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It's a better image, but is this really such a remarkable celestial event that it needs us to promote it? I know we went on for what felt like months about the last one, but this is just one of those things, right? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 19:17, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You'll be fascinated to know that the JU-88's liquid-cooled V-12 engines had annular radiators that made them look like air-cooled radials. – Sca (talk) 14:56, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • However, even then, looking at the navbox at the article these annular eclipse are nearly annual events (less a year or so at times). If we're only getting excited about it because its going to be in the viewing range of the bulk of en.wiki's readership, that's a potential bias issue. --Masem (t) 19:15, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A total solar eclipse occurs somewhere on Earth once every 1 or 2 years. (average), they only average once in 4 centuries cause the 100% zone is thin. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:27, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I appreciate that. Perhaps that's why it's not really an encyclopdic thing. Just an image of something over which not one soul to have lived or dies has control, and with literally no precursor or consequence. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 19:22, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Wasn't Comet Holmes posted? That was just a fuzzy star, and not a bright one, I could barely see the fuzz with me eyeglasses from a dark alley. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:35, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Was Comet Holmes posted? I don't know. Was Comet Holmes something lots of people can see from Earth every year or so? I don't know. You tell me. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 19:38, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A comet of at least that level of visibility averages once every decade or more often (I think we might be in a comet drought, not sure). A comet about one or 2 steps brighter is ITNR and happens once every decade or 2. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:49, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, so that makes this seem rather meh. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 19:53, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Do you mean the article should be deleted? There's cricket articles which stimulate fans who can appreciate all the box scores and history and jargon and abbreviations and stuff and just because they bore most non-Commonwealth people doesn't mean they should be deleted. Same thing, a non-genius who teaches himself the jargon and abbreviations and moon cycles and stuff can visualize a lot more about the shadow geometry and stuff from that boring stub than you might think and it'd probably be easier to learn than all the stuff in a Test series article. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:35, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No, I don't mean it should be deleted. It's clearly "notable" but in a kind of "trivial" sense, i.e. this will happen and there's nothing we can do about it and nothing important about it and nothing of long-lasting value about it. The thing we have here is a "look it up" in an almanac kind of story. Comparing it to a cricket article, which includes significant human interaction, seems bizarre in extremis, but perhaps that's what you need to do to get some attention for this? Comparing the utterly predictable motion of planets and the subsequent "impact" on us Earth-dwellers vs. events which have genuine human interest seems strange to me. YMMV, of course. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 20:49, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You have no idea how boring Test is to many Americans do you? Britney Spears and Madonna surprising everyone by lesbian French kissing on live USA-wide TV had lots of human interaction and viewers and interest (arousing the celebrity fans and inflaming the squarest Bush fans helped). Post hot kiss lol?In 2009 a comet being barely naked eye in wildernesses and maybe farm country was enough to get posted, apparently that happens about once a year (but ITN was pretty ancient then) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:24, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I do have a very comprehensive understanding on how boring "Test" (I think you mean Test cricket) is to Americans. And likewise, baseball is utterly shit, but hey, we are all interested in different things. But you brought up cricket, and now Britney/Madonna. None of these things were governed exclusively by physics. They all had a human interest. This story is just, well, blocks of mass moving per the law. Yell about ITN for all it's worth, that's not helpful at all. It's cute, don't get me wrong, but whatever. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 21:28, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A lot of astronomy is just blocks of mass moving per physics. Heck a lot of cricket and baseball is blocks of mass moving (after some skill-weighted human dice bowled or made contact, heck some physicists think even the scores, blinks and thoughts were preordained since Big Bang) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:25, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It looks cool and it's the darkest eclipse in place so and so since year X, that's all an eclipse story ever will be, I guess we should stop posting total sun eclipses too then cause they're inevitable. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:59, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if it looks cool, I guess that makes it an ITN shoo-in. – Sca (talk) 21:38, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Total solar eclipses don't affect life on Earth either, but they're ITNR. Banedon (talk) 03:34, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose If the current blurbs were very stale I'd give it a weak support because it does no harm, but considering the oldest blurb is only 5 days old it lacks significance. Uses x (leave me a message) 22:03, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The annular eclipse will be visible from very unfortunate parts of the world that are scarcely populated. Yet it's a very good ITN material, the fact that barely a few million people can experience the view brings its notability down. --Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:28, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There isn't much appearance coolness drop from the 94% ringrise of the deserted places to the 80 to 86+% crescentrise of c. 35 million plus people. I saw the most impressive horizon eclipse since I was born in '13 by blinking at Manhattan skyline and at 55% it was much less cool-looking than the 80%+ of this eclipse. There was a deeper one in 1994 (90%) but it was close to overhead (and made the sunlight look pretty dark). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:59, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, these parts are very unfortunate if we're looking to sell out a show, but at least the water and air is mostly water and air up here. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:29, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It must be nice to be able to live where you can make loud love in nature sometimes and not have to drive so long before you stop worrying about voyeur. That's one of the first things I'd do if I reincarnate the right place. Well first thing after childhood. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:48, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not to spoil your romantic perceptions of the North, but there's a very small temporal window for decent natural exposure, between the bitter cold and perverted flying insects. Best to even party like outdoor nerds wearing the proper protection. I saw a sweet green meteor in rural pajama pants twelve days ago, all by myself, whoopee? InedibleHulk (talk) 01:01, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Template:S Support Alt III We know what's good, Milkster and J-Dogs, but we're clearly outnumbered. Awakening is futile. For the record, I was wearing the rural pajama pants, the meteor was bathed in its usual drapery. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:21, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support not rare events, but then neither are total solar eclipses, and if we have those on ITNR then this should be posted also. Banedon (talk) 03:34, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed, the likelihood of this post seems to be growing; your modest effort has moved me to Weak oppose. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:44, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I don't understand the passionate opposes here. The article at this moment is not great, but it's a good bit better than our routine disaster articles. It's wonky, yes, and some more human aspect of it would improve it. The event is in the news. I guess I'd suggest a POTD nomination for this, particularly for the crescent sunrise images.130.233.213.61 (talk) 04:58, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional support iff we have cool pics of the eclipse to show on MainPage. --PFHLai (talk) 05:07, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Good idea, conditions can change. Thanks for the reminder! Swayed my vote accordingly. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:11, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle, I think that Wikipedia:In_the_news/Recurring_items#Celestial_events could possibly be considered to cover annular eclipses (and I personally think it we should add this unambiguously to ITNR, but that's a discussion for elsewhere). Ellipses are interesting, encyclopaedic, and make a nice change from stories about death. We'll have to see if the article is decent post-eclipse, which may not happen given how remote the eclipse path mostly is. Critically, we need a few good pictures and at least one that is main-page quality. --LukeSurl t c 09:07, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality this article has one paragraph of text about the event. The lead also needs tense updating. If one paragraph is all that can be said about it, then it's not ITN-worthy. And the "Related eclipses" section seems ridiculously long, and some of them seem only tangentially related to this event. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:21, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There are a lot of eclipse cycles, cycles are very important in astronomy. i.e. the Moon's (line of) apsides move forwards at 1 orbit per 8.85 years which is important as the apogee side of the line of apsides doesn't make total solar eclipses, it's ascending and descending nodes move backwards at 1 orbit per 18.61 years (draconic period) thus the eclipse year is 346 days and June eclipses, May eclipses etc occur once every 9.305ish years. And the line of nodes and line of apsides cross each other every c. 6 years which is when coronas and sun rings can last more than a few minutes. Every few years the solar eclipses start partial and polar, then get better then tropical then the other pole then partial, this is the 2018-21 thing in the "related eclipses". And of course the lunar eclipses do something similar but 180 degrees out of phase. The new and full moons repeat every 19 years (which is the Metonic cycle of "related eclipses": eclipses obviously must occur in multiples of 29.53059 days (lunar month) or half month and the whole number of lunar months that's closest to a small amount of whole years is 235 (=19 years), 8 years is also kind of close, thus 16 too (3 years is off by 3 or 4 days but enough to make 8 yrs better than 9), 38, 57, 76, and 76+8=84 years which is also very close, the Moon's orbit is 27.3 days (sidereal month) eclipse cycles like Saros align with this. Saros is 18 years and 10.32 or 11.32 days (depending on leap days, 4 or 5?), in summary there are lots of eclipse cycles and the closest analogy I know to something popular is octaves and fifths and fourths and major and minor thirds and other just intonations of small whole number ratios in music with consecutive eclipses being like quarter tones or semitones, closest but most dissonant/dissimilar. The many concurrent cycles are useful for various purposes and named after Ancient Mesopotamian, Mesomerican and maybe Greco-Roman words since those people just happened to be good at discovering astronomy cycles so they get weird names like inex and tzolkinex. The first surviving records of saroses are Ancient Neo-Babylonian thus the scientific community uses their name. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:47, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
All of which are reasons why it's interesting, but not reasons for why a one paragraph article should be put on the front page of Wikipedia. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:19, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: All proposed blurbs say "annular", yet none of the proposed pics shows "annular". No ring? Can someone craft a blurb that will go well with one of the pics, please? Thanks. The pic with the Statue of Liberty is already protected. Are we using this pic? If not, please get that protected first. --PFHLai (talk) 03:05, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The 6/10/2021 eclipse category of Wikipedia Commons had no ring pics. I took a shot at a blurb.Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 03:25, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It's a struggle to find pictures of the annulus even on media sites which can pay for copyrighted images. It seems the path was just very very remote. --LukeSurl t c 04:04, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Then let's not mention "annular" in the blurb. Whether it was annular or deep or... depends on where on Earth it was observed. Is blurb4 acceptable, please? Too simple and uninformative? --PFHLai (talk) 11:17, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
1. Do 10 June people still say June 10th? Then that might be a compromise with 10 June or 10th June (does anyone say that?). 2. The photo was taken roughly a mile from any part of New York State which some might consider misleading. Some people don't know this but the Statue of Liberty is only New York cause the law doesn't follow the geography, it's 1.5 miles from the NY mainland, 1 mile from the nearest island of the NY half of the harbor, half mile from the NJ mainland and slightly further to the nearest NY water but they made a tiny hole in New Jersey that is not Jersey just so NY can rep the statue. So the tip of her copper hair is about 230 feet northeast and 270 feet above the closest Jersey water. Otherwise sure why not, blurb 4. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:46, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Would the modified blurb 4 by any better, Sagittarian Milky Way? --PFHLai (talk) 16:00, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@PFHLai: Yes, seems good, probably change to June 10th though as that seems to be less uncommon in the UK than June 10 while Americans don't mind the th. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:16, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not as cool as the Vermont pic, but cool enough! InedibleHulk (talk) 00:43, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The statue pic was supposed to be 0.203 or 0.204 Sun diameters showing but there was a crap-ton of scattered clouds in the NYC area around mid-eclipse. Toronto got even deeper eclipse than Vermont and 2 vids from Canada were put on Wikipedia Commons (Canada's only contribution to the June '21 eclipse category). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:54, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
And very late Canada suddenly decided to upload 7 more files. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:38, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, is that what "In the News" is about? Thanks for splaining. – Sca (talk) 12:56, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well, maybe. You could make the argument that my !vote is WP:IJUSTDONTLIKEIT. WaltCip-(talk) 13:34, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't like it cuz 'twas raining – cudn't see it. – Sca (talk) 14:36, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Indeed, and consensus to post such a stubby article was by no means clear at all. Suggest this is removed until we can generate more information than in a stub and reduce that dreadful "see also" section to something akin to an encyclopedic article. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 06:46, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • User:Joseph2302, you asked "why was it posted?" on WP:ERRORS. Well, it was good enough to me for ITN. It wasn't great, but it was good enough. "Barely" good enough. ITN was getting stale on a slow news day. Looking for anything not bad on ITN/C and this was the only one there that was "ready". The nice pics helped. I consider them part of the updating. --PFHLai (talk) 09:42, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 
  • Not really. Just add a bit more detail to the article, including some actual news and reactions to the event that weren't already known about 10,000 years ago, and I'll be the first to post it back up again.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:06, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I looked at the main page this morning and admired the photo of the eclipse (right), which was especially effective. Now I see that it has been pulled to restore an inferior photo which has already been up for days. But notice that the eclipse article has already gotten five times the readership of the older blurb. Our readers don't care how much prose such articles have. What matters are the pictures and the eclipse is winning. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:55, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    For the nth time, ITN is not WP:TOP25. Perhaps you should start an RFC to make it that way as you continually appear to want that. Commons is for pretty pictures, Wikipedia is for encyclopedic articles whose content should be more than a stub and an ridiculously over-blown "see also" section. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 09:00, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry you don't appreciate the arithmetic and geometry that makes chronologically distant eclipses rhyme but there is a well-made well-referenced non-stub on eclipse cycles with prose, tables and Jean Meeus references, he's like a world expert on astronomical calculations, this isn't just something someone made up to pad the article. The lede of eclipse cycle has a very helpful NASA animation of the single-eclipse maps of solar saros 136 to explain (#136 since the series of 2873-1593 BC)). Adjacent ones (223 lunar months apart) are very alike, slowly evolving over a millennium and change (graze of the penguins or polar bears to direct hit of the tropics to graze of the other cold). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 11:46, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Weak support I'm usually pretty open on allowing all sorts of blurbs, but a small country that doesn't have its own currency is naming a non-currency as a legal tender? This seems like a pretty small-potatoes level story. I won't object or stand in the way of it being posted, the article is fine, and this has been covered by reliable sources, but it's not really a significant story. This is really not a big deal. --Jayron32 14:18, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article in good shape and this seems to be making global headlines. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 15:16, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support it's a country that has the US dollar as its currency rather than its own currency anyway. But there is lots of news coverage of this event nevertheless. And makes sense to put it on ITN now, even though it doesn't become an official currency for 90 days. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:03, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support. A strange move, but a potentially significant one. The article is brief but sufficient. I would have liked to see more of the response/commentary that's being reported in the media, but that's not a requirement. Should the blurb say this is the first cryptocurrency to become legal tender, or did somewhere else adopt a non-Bitcoin version before? If this is the first cryptocurrency of any form, I would prefer to just say that in the blurb, rather than advertising Bitcoin itself. Modest Genius talk 16:14, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. While this is certainly in the news, I don't necessarily see the significance of it. Quite frankly, it sounds more like a PR stunt (as mentioned in the article). -- Calidum 16:24, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support clearly significant milestone in the history of cryptocurrencies, as the first ever nation to adopt one. NorthernFalcon (talk) 16:27, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @NorthernFalcon The article doesn't mention it, but the Petro and the digital renminbi are government backed cryptocurrencies that already exist. The digital renminbi is officially legal tender. Uses x (leave me a message) 17:09, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The digital renminbi isn't a cryptocurrency, and given that it's value is tied to the renminbi, I don't count it as a separate currency. Likewise, the "Petro" has a value that is tied to something else that has its own market value. That said, it would be notable for Bitcoin (as the largest cryptocurrency) to gain legal tender status anywhere in the world. Furthermore, in my opinion any country changing or altering its currency would be notable enough for ITN. NorthernFalcon (talk) 18:13, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Looking it up you're correct, thank you. Still, they're functionally equivalent so I still don't see the significance of this - the difference between a digital currency and a cryptocurrency is that crypto is decentralised and anonymous, and it works in a different way accordingly. [Investopedia] But still, functionally equivalent. Uses x (leave me a message) 18:29, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support Definitely in the news, but we should remember that we don't necessarily post everything in the news, even if it's getting lots of coverage, if it's not significant. Jackattack1597 (talk) 16:41, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Because other countries have made official cryptocurrencies, and this isn't that significant in the grand scheme of things. Jackattack1597 (talk) 17:54, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not significant, as it's just a politician politicking. I don't expect people in a country with a nominal GDP of $4,041 and an underdeveloped technology sector to pay the high transaction fees or even be able to use it for transactions (i.e. the entire point of making it a currency), and people could already use it as a medium to invest. Uses x (leave me a message) 16:58, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Also, this isn't the first country to make cryptocurrency an official currency. Venezuela has the Petro (no success there), China is developing and testing a digital yuan, etc. What's special about Bitcoin that differentiates itself from these? Uses x (leave me a message) 17:01, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Very brave decision and certainly a huge milestone in the history of cryptocurrencies. Putting everything aside, this is the first designation of a decentralised cryptocurrency as legal tender.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:25, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment A blurb needs to be suggested without "the first country to ...", as Template:Green - Wikipedia:In_the_news#Blurbs. Uses x (leave me a message) 17:41, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • In a situation like this, being first *is* the news story, El Salv. being the first country to accept crypto. Its similar to when we had headlines along the lines of "first country to recognize gay marriage" or the like. The news is about crypto being accepted for the first time by any national government, not so much El Salv.'s specific role to it. --Masem (t) 18:00, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      First decentralised cryptocurrency. I've named two cryptocurrencies above that were the firsts. Anyway, it's implied that it's 'the first' just by being in a blurb, so it doesn't need to be stated. If it weren't the first it wouldn't even be considered. Uses x (leave me a message) 18:16, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      Yes, its the first non-govt' developed crypto, or first crypto to be adapted by a govt. However, in the case of the blurb, if we just left it as "El Salvador designates Bitcoin as legal tender.", while true and implicitly suggests a first, it undervalues why that story is in the news, and would imply to readers that if other countries later opt to use crypto that we'd announce them too. Being the first (with those cavaets) is the story here and needs to be explicitly stated, and that does mean we likely will never post the second country that follows suit. Whether we need to clarify that this was the first external/decentralized crypto, I dunno, but "the first" is critical here. --Masem (t) 19:22, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Not yet. Bitcoin will start becoming legal tender 90 days after the publication of the law in the official gazette. - EugεnS¡m¡on 20:40, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above. A notable first, with substantial news coverage. Davey2116 (talk) 23:06, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support first is first, and it's a decision that (theoretically at least) affects everyone in El Salvador. Banedon (talk) 03:48, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality. The article has one section: History. And much of that has nothing to do with history.130.233.213.61 (talk) 05:02, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It doesn't change anything in practice, and is it really ITN-worthy tech news that the most popular crytpocurrency has become national currency until El Salvadorians accidentally screw up its value? I'd post the bitcoin exchange rate going wild, but like the petro, this is really a non-story until something actually changes to either ES or bitcoin. Kingsif (talk) 10:37, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Per previous two posts, plus lack of general significance and thin RS coverage. – Sca (talk) 12:55, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Notable event. STSC (talk) 20:12, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose- The law is not effective yet. Change the wording along the lines of "El Salvador passes a law having decentralised cryptocurrency as legal tender, the first country to do so".
Preceding posted by IP user 73.111.22.127 at 05:00, 11 June 2021. – Sca (talk)

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(Posted) RD: Ann Russell Miller

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(Posted) RD: Tilly Hirst

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June 8

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(Posted) RD: Richard R. Ernst

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(Posted) Juno flyby of Ganymede

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(Posted) RD: Farhad Humayun

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Template:Ping I also gave the prose some copyediting. Please check and make sure my editing did not change the meaning. I also put in two {cn} tags. The list of brands seems a little too long to be without sourcing. And please confirm the identity of his grandfather (see Talk:Farhad Humayun.) Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 06:30, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Re thanks much. Looks good. Fixed the added CN tags including identify of grandfather. Thanks. Ktin (talk) 14:28, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2021 U.S. Women's Open

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  • I note via ITNR we already cover four major tennis events each year (include both the mens + womens events of each), so I don't know if the lesser competitions are necessarily appropriate for ITN. --Masem (t) 13:11, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Crap, my bad, I missed it was the golf Open. There, given that the actual mens US Open is still two weeks away (such that these two tourneys are not connected like other mens/womens events) I would agree it should be considered as the top womens golf event, in terms of equity, since it clearly has international coverage. --Masem (t) 13:25, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It's a major, not a routine tournament, for the world's biggest women's tour in a pretty big sport. The vast majority of tournaments are won by non-Americans, including this one. 2 of the 5 majors are contested in Europe. There hasn't been a World #1 from the US since 2014; indeed, every #1 golfer since then has been Asian except for a New Zealander. Your statement simply makes no sense. -- Kicking222 (talk) 22:28, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Pretty big sport" - you sure we're talking golf right? It's a niche sport outside the US, regardless of where the competitors are from. World Tchoukball Championships are contested usually in Europe and East Asian teams win it but it does not make it a big international sport. Mobile phone throwing has competitors from all over the world too despite it originating in Finland, as do most sports. The "#1 golfer's" nationality is irrelevant. Abcmaxx (talk) 00:40, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Golf is not a niche sport outside the US, and besides, it has made an appearance at the Olympics. Your assertion that it's just a US thing is silly. That's like saying Soccer is just a European thing. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 03:09, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You're comparing association football, the world's most popular sport to a minor sport played by a small handful of people in a small percentage of the globe. It's not a regular Olympic sport, and also polo and tug of war were in the Olympics too, again does not mark this event's notability. American football is played in Europe doesn't make it a global sport either. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:40, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
First off, golf is one of ten most-watched sports on Earth. Second, though it's a relatively new addition, it's a "core" Olympics sport, so I don't have a clue what your point is. You have literally no idea what you're talking about. I mean, I hate golf, but at least I can look at it objectively. -- Kicking222 (talk) 12:42, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Also it's ironic how this "US event" managed to have 3 non-Americans in the top 5, and 2 in the top 2. As well as the last 5 winners of this event are all non-American. Considering that the men's version is ITNR, there does seem to be some kind of logic problem here..... Joseph2302 (talk) 12:47, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Gridiron Football absolutely is a global sport, but this is a silly conversation anyway, golf is a well-known sport, therefore, it should be listed in ITN -- and considering that the men's version of this is ITNR, this should be in here just to correct the gender imbalance on Wikipedia. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 16:37, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Gridiron Football absolutely is a global sport" honestly, I read a lot of nonsense on Wikipedia, but this is the cream on the biscuit. Good grief. Where else, other than the US and Canada, is "gridiron" even taken seriously as a "sport"?? We watch the Superbowl for the half-time nipples and pre-match fly-past... The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 18:15, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
What's your definition of a "global sport", then? It's not just in the US and Canada that people play Gridiron football -- they play it professionally in Japan, China, and Mexico, and at the Collegiate level in the United Kingdom and South Korea as well. Considering that spans the globe, I think that qualifies as a global sport. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 20:14, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ha ha ha, seriously? Let's start with "every other sport on Earth" and work our way back. At some point I recall you claimed to be studying post-grad degree, to somehow now claim that gridirion is global is frankly absurd. Oh well! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 22:15, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
What the hell is wrong with you? Mocking other users' intelligence, seriously? Have you read WP:CIVIL lately? You're way over the line with this comment, pal. Mlb96 (talk) 02:53, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
One thing that TRM does not do well at is being civil. But I have a thick skin, so I don't really care what he says or thinks. Thank you for sticking up for me, I appreciate it. Also, I didn't realize that understanding the global impact of sports related to my doctoral work in computer science, but OK then. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 04:21, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No, I think the point here is that when one makes outlandish assertions such as "gridiron being global" they need to be corrected. It is woefully misguided to think that anyone outside the US/Canada is interested in any real sense in that version of "football". It's a total fallacy. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 07:28, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'm beginning to understand why you were desysopped all these years ago. --Rockstone[Send me a message!] 15:51, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well done you, a proud moment I'm sure of it. And nice swerve away from the fallacy-pushing I guess, bravo! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 17:22, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
And my god, your links are so embarrassing, I'm not sure why you thought they were relevant. Seriously? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 22:21, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Gridiron football is not at all relevant to this nomination, and this whole thread should probably be hatted. Abcmaxx's idiosyncratic view that golf is not a major sport is probably not going to be much of a factor as to whether this gets posted. Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:28, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. All such absurd irrelevant non-sequitur comments should be censored. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 22:33, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
They're relevant because you're making the claim that gridiron (not gridirion as you bizarrely spelled it) is not a global sport when it clearly is. As an aside, you're not even attacking my argument, just mocking it. Come up with a reason why my links are irrelevant in establishing that gridiron football is a global phenomenon, please. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 23:51, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The links speak for themselves. Honestly, this is amongst the funniest stuff I've read here this year, and it's still only June. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 07:28, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As mentioned before, all those things apply to e.g. tchoukball and mobile phone throwing; international top players from around the globe, played worldwide. American football isn't even popular in neighbouring Canada who share most league systems. Golf is mostly played, watched, hosted, broadcast and financed in the US; everywhere else it's either a minor sport or a very minor sport. Octopush and paintball is played at "collegiate level" in the UK too by the way. Abcmaxx (talk) 21:53, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The sport was literally made in Scotland. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 22:05, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This, honestly, is the best response to the nonsense above, I've seen for an age. Template:U has been properly trouted! Thank you! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 22:09, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I am aware, it how it got to the US in the 1st place, doesn't make it popular though does it? Even if for argument's sake we count the UK and Ireland and Japan having a "big" golf following, it's still tiny, it's even in the article: Golf#Popularity. By that logic we should be including all sorts of competitions from all sports, not picking ones that happen to adhere to Anglo-Saxon tastes. Abcmaxx (talk) 22:27, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
And we do!! Good grief. Go read WP:ITNR. Wow, you ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT these days. But hey, just yell about shit and it makes no difference. Mis-apply logic or reinforce the systemic bias we see here, "Anglo-Saxon taste" for the love of "god". Ridiculous. Have your fun. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 22:36, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) ANOM sting operation

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Template:ITN candidate

PS: Individual convictions in the future are unlikely to be notable. – Sca (talk) 13:11, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The action and results constitute the news. Readers can learn about the (complex) app. in the article. – Sca (talk) 18:52, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. Many news articles explicitly point out that this is the first time a sting like this has been successfully perpetrated for such a long time and especially mention the ingenuity of essentially running a messenger service for criminals in order to entrap them. In fact, the whole article is named for this very app and the article heavily focuses on ANOM's creation and distribution. Not mentioning it in the blurb seems counterintuitive to say the least. Regards SoWhy 19:39, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I agree alt3 is better as it gives info about the mechanism. Uses x (leave me a message) 20:57, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I added a third altblurb that mentions the network which I think is relevant (it is prominently mentioned in all news reports after all, including those sources mentioned in the nom). Regards SoWhy 19:48, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This is one of the moste spectacular law enforcement operations in recent times, with far-reaching consequences for both the fight against organized crime and the struggle to maintain individual privacy in a world of ompipresent surveillance. -- The Anome (talk) 19:57, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • support. event is obviously notable as explained above, and article is of good quality considering it was started today. however, the crux of the notability focuses on the fact that the messaging application was a ruse, which is not mentioned in the first three blurb proposals, and may be misleadingly described in the fourth, as it is unclear if the network is appropriately described as an "encrypted device network" if it deliberately allowed law enforcement to intercept its communications, regardless of whether or not the network actually used encryption.Template:Pbto address this issue, i have further muddled the blurb choices with alternative blurb iv. note that i have used "secure" instead of "encrypted", since it is arguable whether or not it was the latter, but it was definitely not the former. dying (talk) 23:13, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 23:25, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Appreciate not having the word "organized/organised" in the blurb. Less drama that way -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 23:26, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm here from the main page. When I saw the current blurb, I had to check the article to know which parts of the world were involved. "International" could encompass everything from two countries to two hundred. In my opinion, it's a bit too vague—"global" or "worldwide" might be better. In fact, I think "involving x countries throughout the world" or some variant thereof would be best. Kurtis (talk) 03:34, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • I've changed the wording from "international" to "multinational" which still captures the breadth of countries involved without implying 200+ countries involved. --Masem (t) 05:17, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Template:Ping I think you may have misunderstood my previous comment. I was actually trying to imply that the term "international" could convey a smaller scale than what had transpired, not that it was overstated. Kurtis (talk) 18:55, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • In terms of blurb space, we don't really have room to get into the number of countries involved. "Global/worldwide" implies large a scope given that this was mostly the US, European and Australian agencies at play. "Multinational" implies "more than 2" but not "every country", and at least for the blurb, the reader can follow the link to learn more which countries did support it. --Masem (t) 18:59, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment – Introductory clause – Using information obtained from a compromised encrypted device network, – seems overly long and complex for at-a-glance ITN reading, IMO. – Sca (talk) 11:58, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That reads considerably better. TNX. – Sca (talk) 22:13, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 7

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2021 June 7 Template:Cob


(Posted) RD: Yoo Sang-chul

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Template:ITN candidate

Nigeria censorship of Twitter

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Template:ITN candidate

I've expanded it a bit. Still meh on notability, but considering the rest of the content it's just enough in terms of length. Uses x (talkcontribs) 23:20, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Receiving quite a lot of RS press coverage and international condemnation. The Censorship of Twitter target article is sufficient & not in poor shape. I like that the original blurb is concise, but I am not opposed to any of the alternatives.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 21:44, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mostly Support Nigeria has one of the largest, if not the largest, Twitter user base in Africa, so the government banning it would have made it notable even without it getting so much attention. While I'm a bit weary about the article choice, it is serviceable in the absence of a full article on this dispute (although there are one or two "citation needed" tags that needto be addressed). Prefer to go with Original blurb for its conciseness. Mount Patagonia (talk) 22:25, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Twitter's been banned numerous times in various locations. I can't recall if we posted the Turkish banning, or the Pakistani banning, but these sorts of things seem to be routine for the industry. Additionally, it's perverse to make the story about Twitter instead of the actual underlying story.130.233.213.61 (talk) 05:02, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please do not call editors perverts – we are all working together here. And personally, I think both of the president's actions – threatening violence and subsequently restricting his citizens' internet access and free speech – are reprehensible, but only one has been deemed to be notable by the outside world. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 05:48, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW: perverse. The proposed bold link also makes clear that this is almost routine for this company.130.233.213.61 (talk) 07:02, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2021 Peruvian general election

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Template:ITN candidate

  • Wait until results are written into the article, otherwise the rest of the article looks solid. --Jayron32 15:21, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support after results announced per nomination Abcmaxx (talk) 22:06, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This is a completely pointless nomination. All that matters is the prose, and we can't know if the prose will be sufficient until after the election results are in. Even if the rest of the article is perfect, I'm not going to support posting something if the most important part of it isn't (and can't) be written yet. Why not just nominate the French Open before we know who's playing in the finals? Why don't we nominate old people for RD before they're dead? -- Kicking222 (talk) 22:38, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure someone has a ITN nomination for 'Death of Queen Elizabeth II' prepared and saved somewhere on their computer. Dat GuyTalkContribs 05:19, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. "Post the day before it happens so I get credit for it" nominations rub me the wrong way. While we're waiting, does anyone want to form consensus for Olympics to go in ongoing in two months? I say support. /s AllegedlyHuman (talk) 05:31, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
In fairness, the editor in question is also an article contributor, so they can get an article contributor credit anyway. But nominating a day or so before the election results is announced is way too premature. Joseph2302 (talk) 07:49, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
What evidence is there that the motivation here is merely to get credit? 331dot (talk) 10:52, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
None whatsoever; that was a total bad faith assumption.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:53, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Template:U "Support per ITNR" is unnecessary, as the whole point of ITNR nominations is that support on the merits is not required; this discussion is to discuss article quality and a blurb(as well as timing). 331dot (talk) 10:51, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping Ah, my bad, I didn't notice that the nomination was already made according as a recurring item. Thank you for letting me know, I'm striking that part at least for the sake of simplicity. --NoonIcarus (talk) 19:54, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Pakistan train crash

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Template:ITN candidate Support because it's important enough and the article is of sufficient quality. Jim Michael (talk) 09:00, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 6

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2021 June 6 Template:Cob


(Posted) RD: Addo Bonetti

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(Posted) RD: John M. Patterson

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(Closed) Canada truck attack

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

  • Oppose While a hate-related crime, it does not appear to be terrorism related nor premediated based on the given sources. Its a sad event, but not the type of crime we'd cover on ITN. --Masem (t) 20:49, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Template:U But it was a premeditated act. The BBC headline is "Muslim family killed in 'premeditated' truck attack". According to police: "There is evidence that this was a planned, premeditated act". This is also now being covered widely internationally.VR talk 21:04, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I meant in the sense, in comparison to most terrorist acts, that the man didn't plan this act out. The act was likely premediated as in "premediated murder" in the sense the suspect appears to very much dislike Muslims, saw the opportunity to run down the family , and did so on the spot. Yes, its being covered internationally because hate crimes in Canada are rare, but this is not like, say, 2014 shootings at Parliament Hill, Ottawa which was terrorism related. --Masem (t) 21:11, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Same deal, the premeditation's in the type of planned target. In 2014, it was soldiers. Now, it's Muslims. MINIMUMDEATHCOUNT-wise, this is the significant one. In a political outrage sense, most Canadians expect that if terrorists kill anyone, it should be our soldiers, not every demographic of traditional nuclear family on our streets; Could be some big (federal and provincial) ramifications. At least this one has someone to slowly punish in public, like in 2017. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:45, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

(Posted) RD: Mochtar Kusumaatmadja

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Support As that's resolved, assuming good faith on the citations (they're mainly from books) it's fully cited and there's a good amount of information. Uses x (talkcontribs) 02:29, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Re Done, thank you for notifying. --Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 02:25, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Richard Robinson

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(Posted) RD: David Dushman

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2021 IIHF World Championship

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RD: T. B. Joshua

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(Posted) British Academy TV awards

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Template:ITN candidate

There was an ITN/R discussion in August 2020. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 00:48, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Collapse top

  • comment: apparently, both Template:Diff3 and Template:Diff3 to itn/r were performed by an editor now blocked for sockpuppetry. i was hoping to find the reasoning behind their additions in the relevant consensus-establishing discussions, but could not find one. (i could easily be looking in the wrong places, though.) however, i did find a discussion about a month prior to the additions where, in my opinion, no consensus had been established. also, there have been calls in recent years to remove the emmys from itn/r, at least once each in 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020. dying (talk) 00:02, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • This is not the place to discussion ITNR issues, nor to propose a new ITNR. Only key is that we have repeated published - when the articles is up to par - the Emmy winners, and thus reasonable to see if one of the other top TV shows currently not an ITNR can be nominated per ITNC . --Masem (t) 00:20, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • apologies, i had not meant to propose an inclusion or exclusion to itn/r here, but merely wished to explain why i had felt that the current arguments for notability of this year's bafta tv awards seem lacking. i had wanted to understand why the emmys were considered notable enough for inclusion in itn/r, hoping that it would allow me to understand if this year's bafta tv awards were notable enough to post on itn, but i could not find a consensus establishing the former. to be clear, i had been interpreting each !vote here as for posting on itn, not for inclusion on itn/r. if you still feel that the comment is inappropriate, i can strike the comment if you prefer. dying (talk) 03:57, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • question: regardless of whether the emmys should be included in itn/r, why are this year's british academy television awards notable enough to be posted to itn? genuine question, as i am unfamiliar with television awards in general. i couldn't find the viewership numbers for this year's bafta tv awards, but according to deadline, it appears that only about two million people watched this year's bafta film awards live.Template:Nowrap considering that reuters reported that decreased viewership has been "a trend among live awards shows during the coronavirus pandemic", i would assume that interest in this year's bafta tv awards are similarly dismal.Template:Nowrap in addition, the telegraphTemplate:'s review of this year's show does not seem favourable. the only current arguments for notability i see above appear to hinge on the emmys being notable enough for itn/r, which itself seems questionable. dying (talk) 00:02, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Popularity is not a factor for INTC, nor is reception of the awards ceremony. The question to ask is if in the world of television media, if the BAFTA TV awards represent a sufficiently high level of award to be included as ITNC. --Masem (t) 00:22, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • And to add to this, each ITNC is standalone, so the assertion that Template:Tq is completely wrong. The Emmys being in ITN/R could be (and has been) just one of several arguments for adding BATAs to ITN/R, but this is something that posting at ITN/C doesn't hinge on in the slightest. Judge this nom on its own merits, not on whether one newspaper was impressed with the production or if you think the Emmys should be ITN/R or not. Kingsif (talk) 01:22, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • popularity and reception of the awards ceremony are currently all the information i have that could be relevant, which is why i was hoping that someone else could explain how this year's bafta tv awards were notable. also, i'm not sure if qualifying the notability question by adding "in the world of television media" is appropriate, since similar qualifications can be applied for other nominations. ("in the world of eve online, does the battle of b-r5rb represent a sufficiently notable battle to be posted on itn?")Template:Pbto make it clear, i do not believe that the bafta tv awards are not notable. i simply don't know if they are, and none of the arguments i have seen above so far have convinced me, someone who knows admittedly virtually nothing about television awards, that the bafta tv awards this year are notable enough to be posted to itn. also, regardless of whether the bafta tv awards belong in itn/r, i am evaluating this itn/c nomination on its own merits, which is why my question included the phrase "this year's". (currently, i have no concerns over the article's quality.) my shoddy research had found mention of celebrities appearing in holograph form, which might be notable, but it seemed like they only showed up on the red carpet, so i was unsure of its relevance.Template:Pbi agree that determining this nomination's merits on itn/c should not be based on whether the emmys are in itn/r, which is why i prefaced my question with "regardless of whether the emmys should be included in itn/r", and why i am unconvinced by the other arguments that appear based on the emmy's inclusion in itn/r. for example, the statement "If we post the Emmys, I don't see a compelling reason to not post the British Academy Television Awards" appears to base the notability of the subject of this nomination on the recurring posting of the emmys, and not, for example, one instance of its posting, in which case the opinion may have been better conveyed by stating "If we posted the Emmys" instead.Template:Pbi linked the review not because the reviewer was unimpressed by the production, but because the first purpose of itn is "[t]o help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news", and considering that the reviewer stated that the ceremony "veered from cheerless to underwhelming and then circled all the way around", i gathered that not many readers would be interested in quickly accessing this content. the review also notes that "there were a few mild surprises but no bombshells" regarding the winners, which meant to me that readers generally interested in the list of winners and not the ceremony itself may also not be as interested in this year's article. other reviews were available, but this one was from a solidly reliable source, and also seemed to be the most favourable amongst the ones i had found. dying (talk) 03:57, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          • That's not how awards like this work. Rarely, the significance of the award is discussed in depth with the current year's ceremony, but instead that is instead established over many years from multiple other sources. We judge inclusion of such awards or sports events at ITNC (if there's no ITNR) based on evaluating how important that is in that field, which may requiring going beyond the specific year, as well as making sure the specific year's ceremony is in the news and the specific year ceremony is up to date. Eg: we don't include stuff like the Nickelodeon Kids Choice awards because while they may have coverage, we know from their history they are not considered top tier awards in the industry. But BAFTAs, in general, are on par with the big US academies in its history. --Masem (t) 05:14, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          • What Masem said: 1. how popular something is, doesn't really matter. 2. the above support that said there is no good reason not to post because the Emmys are ITN/R is not, as you interpreted, saying that the Emmys being ITN/R is a reason to post - it is suggesting that the ITN/R of an equivalent award means that any personal prejudice against posting TV award ceremonies is not a compelling oppose (and that user saw no other reasons, so supported). As an additional note, I also find it bizarre that you think a negative review means that people won't be interested in accessing information about an event, especially awards: they most likely want to see the results and don't care about the production value. Since this is wildly off-topic but I'm sure nobody cares to start explaining to you further at the talkpage, I've collapsed it. Kingsif (talk) 13:43, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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(Closed) The Birth of Lilibet Mountbatten Windsor

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Template:Abot

(Closed) 2021 Sri Lanka floods

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

  • Comment Perhaps better for ongoing, per nom comment? Kingsif (talk) 20:43, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    For ongoing we need to be confident that it'll continue to be updated, but right now it's not even long enough for a blurb. One thing at a time. Uses x (talkcontribs) 21:28, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ongoing would benefit from a bit of expansion, but it's clearly an ongoing issue. Joseph2302 (talk) 20:58, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - I do not believe that the two flood events highlighted in the article is significant enough to go up on WP:ITN or Ongoing especially with only 14 deaths. I also firmly believe that we as a community need to look carefully at how we present flood articles and other such weather articles. For example: are these two flood events really notable enough to be split of from a general Floods in Sri Lanka article especially since one is associated with the monsoonal rains.Jason Rees (talk) 21:24, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Major hurricanes and typhoons that make landfall are often key events even if they are usual seasonal occurrences. But so are floods and things like tornado cells that are associated with northern hemispehere spring-summer conditions. It is not that we won't post floods or tornadoes but they should have a much more significant impact that the usual occurences. --Masem (t) 13:26, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Template:Ping Firstly speaking as a member of the Weather Project, I can tell you that editors within the project, don't tend to feel differently and only tend to nominate something unless they know it's going to have a or has had a significant impact on an area and by significant we generally mean we expect to see the retirement of the weather systems name where applicable. However, we have to remember that editors who do not contribute to the weather project can and do nominate events for ITN even when they are generally routine and is why we wanted to get some criteria set up. However, it isn't easy and we have to go on a case by case basis. Also it is worth noting that the weather project has only just really been set up and is hoping to improve coverage of weather events across the board including flooding, so that we can get a better idea of what's notable and what isn't. However, to do so we need editors like yourself to contribute with your local knowledge on what happens in your country.Jason Rees (talk) 17:38, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

(Posted) Somaliland parliamentary election

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That's not a hard-and-fast rule. The rule is that states listed on List of sovereign states get ITN/R, states listed on List of states with limited recognition (i.e. Kosovo, Nagorno-Karabakh, Somaliland) get ITN/C. Elections in the Republic of Artsakh could very well be posted under these rules. If you individually don't think this election is important enough to pass through ITN/C that's one thing, but it is an eligible submission per policy, not inherently restricted from posting as you imply. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 11:53, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It has a historical precedent, Artsakh elections were rejected at least once due to unrecognized status. Brandmeistertalk 13:56, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – ""Somaliland's self-proclaimed independence has not been officially recognised by any country or international organisation." Thus, voting results there don't qualify for ITN. – Sca (talk) 13:13, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Sca It doesn't qualify for ITN/R, but that's not what the nomination is for. The nominator comment says everything. Uses x (talkcontribs) 16:32, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Yes, Somaliland is a self-proclaimed political entity that's not recognised by other countries but this election was observed by representatives of UN member states, which gives it international legitimacy and it may lead to wider recognition according to political experts. Additionally, this is the first parliamentary election in sixteen years in a political entity whose independence has been matter of a thirty-year long and still ongoing civil war. As compared to Kosovo as a recent precedent, it has double of its population and 16 times greater territory. Marrying up all these things, this is a significant election that merits inclusion.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:15, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose because Somaliland isn't a country. Jim Michael (talk) 15:55, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Kiril Simeonovski. Wizardoftheyear (talk) 16:14, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The article is fine, and even though it's not ITN/R 3.5 million live in Somaliland (The Republic of Artsakh, which Brandmeister used as an example, has 120,000), as well as it being the first election in 16 years, so it's a significant election. The fact that the European Union, Sweden, Taiwan, and the United Kingdom helped fund the election, as well as ambassadors supporting the election, shows the election can't just be dismissed. Uses x (talkcontribs) 16:29, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Kiril Simeonovski. Somaliland is the textbook case of a de facto rather than de jure state. I understand its not ITNR for this reason but that's also not automatic grounds for dismissal. The article is adequate and well-describes an election that determines the effectively sovereign government of a large jurisdiction. --LukeSurl t c 16:33, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support They are a de facto independent state and have been for a long time. The Somali government does not have any de facto jurisdiction over Somaliland therefore who wins this election governs the land in its entirety. The main difference is that unlike some other unrecognised states it is not a puppet government installed by a foreign power either. Abcmaxx (talk) 16:56, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Kiril Simeonovski and others who supported before me. IMO, they have summarised strong arguments in favour of posting. 45.251.33.143 (talk) 17:12, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Armenia is a partially-recognised state and was posted before. Honestly don't see why this shouldn't be posted. 71.190.46.168 (talk) 17:20, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Somaliland is de facto a state, I agree with Kiril's statement above. --Vacant0 (talk) 18:15, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. Most of the opposition seems to be related to the fact that Somaliland is not recognized as an independent nation, but this is not an ITNR nomination where that would be relevant, and the article seems in good shape. 331dot (talk) 18:25, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The fact that Somaliland is not a country goes to the significance of the event, which is one of the three mandatory criteria that an article must meet to get a blurb. I'm not saying that the blurb should be pulled at this point, nor am I saying that there wasn't consensus to post. But those opposes were in fact relevant, and you shouldn't have dismissed them outright. Mlb96 (talk) 22:09, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also, for the record, we did not post the results of the Northern Cyprus election because of a lack of consensus to post, and most people who opposed did so on the grounds of "not a country, not significant" (including myself). Mlb96 (talk) 22:20, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The policy says internationally recognized states are ITN/R, and states with limited recognition should be judged on their merits through ITN/C. You say not being internationally recognized should have bearing on significance as assessed by ITN/C. But if a nation were internationally recognized, it would be ITN/R and we wouldn't have to assess significance at all. What you're saying is a Catch-22. The policy as written clearly indicates that some elections from states with limited recognition are blurb eligible. So how do votes simply expressed along the lines of "nope, not a country" hold water? AllegedlyHuman (talk) 00:03, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • It seems irrelevant, given that the vast majority of comments are in support. Debating this point of contention further would be an entirely academic matter. Wizardoftheyear (talk) 01:24, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Such an election could be significant, if, for example, a leader who supported reintegration into the original country or a leader who supported an all-out war of independence were elected. Contrast this with an internationally recognized country, in which the elections are inherently significant no matter what, and we reflect this by making them ITN/R. You are essentially treating these elections as also being inherently significant, which is directly adverse to the "not ITN/R, judge on their own merits" policy. Mlb96 (talk) 02:17, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 5

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(Posted) Solhan and Tadaryat massacres

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(Closed) G7 agreement on global corporate tax rate

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  • Oppose as it's premature. Right now it's only a statement of intent and isn't binding in any way. Next, the larger group of G20 members will be presented with the idea, and if they give the okay there will be a lot of discussion on the small details. Then, 130 countries need to give the okay. (Irish Examiner) It's certainly in the news, but I think the story lacks significance because right now it doesn't mean anything, and the details haven't been added to the article. It's blurb-worthy if/when it becomes binding. Uses x (talkcontribs) 17:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • I was trying to figure out the "next steps" to understand how binding this G7 was, and would generally agree we need a more likely firm point that this will happen. But we also generally post when the news seems to recognize a major step, which is what this is being called. But we absolutely need a proper target for this and that I don't know. --Masem (t) 17:47, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on significance All G7 Summits are ITN/R, and therefore pass ITN on significance. There's a couple of uncited paragraphs, so it's not ready yet, but it shouldn't be difficult to change that. NorthernFalcon (talk) 05:04, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Marking as ITN/C. As Joofjoof said only the conclusion of a G7 summit is ITN/R. That isn't to say that this nomination shouldn't be judged on its merits; a singular newsworthy event could take place within a summit, but the community consensus beforehand was only regarding the summit itself. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 08:15, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Even the deal to back a proposal hasn't been finalized, and the seemingly associated summit hasn't started. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:29, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now I am broadly supportive of this, but it is too early. If some kind of actual agreement is reached that is transposed into international law then ITN should mention it for sure. Melmann 10:38, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Not happening yet. – Sca (talk) 13:28, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for 13th - as commented above ITN/R, but the summit hasn't even begun yet. Worth hanging onto until it closes in a week. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 14:23, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until the summit starts and we'll reassess what is significant at that time.—Bagumba (talk) 18:10, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait and close. Agreements at summits are borderline CRYSTAL, commonly requiring domestic approval from differently-minded constituents. Leaks of talking points that might be agreed at a summit are several miles into CRYSTAL.130.233.213.61 (talk) 05:41, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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June 4

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(Posted) RD: Karla Burns

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RD: Clarence Williams III

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June 3

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(Posted) RD: Friederike Mayröcker

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RD/Blurb: Anerood Jugnauth

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Template:U, after reading your linked nominations I thought this had to do with their influence. Abdul Kalam played a pivotal role in developing India's nuclear weapon and continued to do so after his ascension to presidency. Ratsiraka served as president for nearly two decades and transformed Madagascar into a socialist state before returning it to its original state. On the other hand, there is hardly anything outstanding from Moudud Ahmed and Pranab Mukherjee's tenure as the leader of their respective country. Jacques Chirac is an outlier, I guess. ϗ (talk) 03:12, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: F. Lee Bailey

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June 2

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(Posted) RD: Raymond J. Donovan

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(Posted) International Booker Prize

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(Posted) X-Press Pearl

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  • If it met the conditions of an ITN-worthy article, then we could. But the article is a short stub that nobody seems willing to expand. Lots of people are coming here to complain that it's not posted, yet nobody wants to invest any time getting it to at least a start class article. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:42, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • On the Niger boat accident, looking at the sources given and what I can even see, I don't even know if we can get it past a stub. It happened, it was reported, but -- there's a rather amazing lack of detail in English-language sources -no followup from major sources after the event to confirm the death toll, etc. This is a problem of external systematic bias, not within WP, when we can't really do much with what little the sources give us to start with. Yes, some expansion is possible from what's there but may be two or three sentences at best. --Masem (t) 14:52, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping please see Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates#Nigeria boat accident, ongoing new discussion moved to May 27 Abcmaxx (talk) 22:17, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) IRIS Kharg

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  • Comment At least according to the Reuters, with no loss of life, but I think the quality of the article precludes a quick snow close on this facet. --Masem (t) 13:20, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Largest ship in the Iranian navy sinks. That seems newsworthy. However, the article only has one sentence describing the sinking. I recommend waiting to see whether this was an accident, sabotage, or combat loss. Jehochman Talk 13:29, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The answers to those questions may take a long time to surface, or maybe never will. – Sca (talk) 13:54, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • They're saying it was a fire in one of the ship's systems (well outside of combat). Now sure, it could be something like sabotage, but I don't think we need to wait to post for the explicit explanation beyond that. The update (like the safety of the crew, etc.) should be included though. --Masem (t) 13:39, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – in principle, pending expansion of article – due to the possible political ramifications of the destruction of the Iranian Navy's largest vessel (by whom?). – Sca (talk) 13:47, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Sinking of the largest ship in a large navy is notable regardless of whether there are casualties or not (at the very least, we don't have a rule written in stone that death toll is the only criterion for notability). The article is in good shape and could be posted once the update on the incident is expanded with a few more sentences.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:49, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – The Kharg was not a "tanker" in the usual maritime sense of the word (a commercial vessel used to transport petroleum), but as our article says "a replenishment oiler (naval term) or replenishment tanker" used to supply fuel oil to other vessels at sea. Possible change to plain English: "a naval fuel-supply ship." – Sca (talk) 14:04, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • A tanker is a vessel designed to transport any liquid, be it water, petroleum, milk, beer or whatever. The ship class is correct, per the article on the class. Mjroots (talk) 14:18, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Today's modest proposal is that we speak to our audience in plain English. Just a suggestion in the interest of readability & comprehension. – Sca (talk) 15:17, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:ERRORS, where the change was made. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 19:47, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I did. Interesting that a drive-by at WP:ERRORS for something which is not an error could clobber the consensus blurb from WP:ITNC. "The ship wasn't on fire" would be an error, this was WP:IDONTLIKEIT --LaserLegs (talk) 19:51, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that word "consensus" means what you think it means. Jehochman Talk 20:00, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Does it mean someone shows up at WP:ERRORS asking for a change and Jehochman unilaterally makes the change? I was looking at WP:CON but I didn't find that part, if you can point it out though it'd clear this whole thing up for me and I'll move on. --LaserLegs (talk) 20:19, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Largest ship" isn't trivia any more than the fact it sank is trivia. It's the main reason this is a story at all. 331dot (talk) 22:34, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Per my statement in the talk page RFC (related to elections but applies here), "the biggest ship in Iran's navy" is a non-controversial fact, and nearly every RS reporting on the sink repeat this. While its an observation/commentary on the news fact, its definitely far too closely tied with what's being reported so it is definitely appropriate to include in this case. --Masem (t) 22:37, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • I didn't put that phrase in the proposed blurb as I thought it could be seen as glorifying in the loss to the Iranian Navy, rather that stating the simple fact thay they had lost a ship. It was mentioned in the nomination notes here to give editors here an idea of the significance of the loss. Mjroots (talk) 05:04, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Great article, in the news, well-sourced. Jusdafax (talk) 23:14, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is exactly the kind of news item we want to highlight. Good work to those who updated the article. Jehochman Talk 04:37, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June 1

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(Posted) RD: Robert Rutman

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(Posted) RD: Mike Marshall (pitcher)

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(Closed) Criminalization of sexual abuse in Catholic Church

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  • Comment More than that: "insisting that bishops take action against clerics who abuse minors and vulnerable adults, commit fraud or attempt to ordain women". It won't take effect until 8 December (so it could possibly be left until then), and it completely replaces the 1983 Code of Canon Law (a very comprehensive article). The target page should therefore be 2021 Code of Canon Law, which doesn't currently exist. (The Irish Times) Uses x (talkcontribs) 17:57, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree that's likely the proper article for this (more than just a small update to any of the other articles that cover the Canon Law), and that really should be created first before we can post (this is not an area I'm not an expert that I could contribute meanfully here). In terms of timing, as we've usually done in the past, given that there's nothing that will stop these from going into force, we usually post on the announcement when there's recognition by reliable sources, barring any other points. --Masem (t) 18:31, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    My reading of both sources above is that it's rather a revision, not a brand new canon, I've added altblurb. Specifically, AP says "The revision, which has been in the works since 2009, involves all of section six of the Church's Code of Canon Law", i.e. only one section of the Code is revamped. Brandmeistertalk 19:58, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The Irish Times says "It replaced the code approved by Pope John Paul II in 1983 and will take effect on December 8th". I don't think this is going to get posted, but I think the nonexistant article I posted above is the right one because of that. Uses x (talkcontribs) 09:28, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment If this was a sovereign country, would we post this as a blurb? NorthernFalcon (talk) 18:36, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Absolutely. The very idea of a state keeping sexual assault legal for this long would be amazing in itself. Things being as they are with this particular Catholic Church, though, it's not so cut and dry. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:49, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Oppose – It's been widely covered, so some people think it's significant, but to a non-Catholic it seems a church matter beyond the usual scope of ITN. Not quite sure what "criminalizes" means in this context. – Sca (talk) 18:55, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not Catholic, but I would assume that it means that you could be excommunicated for that. I agree that it is vague and probably not in the scope of ITN to announce changes in religious doctrine. --Aknell4 (talkcontribs) 20:16, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If that's what "criminalizes" means in this instance, then it's an internal church or doctrinal issue and not within the purview of ITN – (IMO). Changed to oppose. — Sca (talk) 21:48, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Given the number of cases in regular news that have also bubbled into ITN news related to abuses of the Church to minors and others over the last several years, this change is significant across the board. But I fully agree that having an article or a necessarily significant section to expand exactly what this means, etc. is necessary as otherwise, it could appear simply as hand-waving the problem away too (I don't read it like that but it could be). --Masem (t) 20:21, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Internal Catholic matter/doctrine change which, given the Catholic proclivity to protect sexual abusers, is unlikely to have any meaningful impact (sexual abuse is already against 10 Commandments, and Catholics purport to follow those). If/when any prominent individual actually gets punished under these provisions, that may constitute an ITN item. Melmann 22:06, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Presumably this is a symbolic gesture to show that the church is finally taking the issue seriously. Which is a good thing, but I doubt it will have much practical impact. It's not like they've officially condoned or allowed sexual abuse up until now, it just wasn't written down as such. And writing it down may or may not make a difference in terms of how much it's covered up going forward, that remains to be seen.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:34, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose we wouldn't report on minor statutory changes at national or supranational levels so we should not do so for canon law either. This seems more like a tightening/clean up of the existing provisions, not unlike amendments to acts of parliament for example.Abcmaxx (talk) 23:41, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I'd be open to a blurb, but I'm not seeing an obvious article this would apply. We have Catholic Church sexual abuse cases, which is more about specific cases than the general topic of Catholic Church sexual abuse.—Bagumba (talk) 09:11, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose something that is illegal is now recognised as illegal- seems rather like just a symbolic gesture. Not ITN worthy. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:21, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - It is a major update on canon law to deal with the sexual abusers. This issue concerns our society as a whole. STSC (talk) 19:08, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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RD: Prince Amedeo, Duke of Aosta (born 1943)

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(Posted) RD: Ujwal Thapa

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(Posted) RD: Mufti Faizul Waheed

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