We Want the Airwaves: Gabriela Watson-Burkett, pt.

Nia: Yeah, so, for your second film, it’s about two Black women educators who both happen
to be single moms. I assume that was not part of casting, just a coincidence. [laughs] What
made you decide to focus on education for your second film?

Gaby: So, after Nosotros, Afroperuanos, I was thinking, you know, which issue or which
theme I want to be covering in this next project. I had to pick pieces for my MFA, for my
Master of Fine Arts, here at Temple. So, I started to consider important topics, and topics that
were close to me, close to my heart, and things that would really get me engaged. Because,
doing a documentary is such a long process.

Nia: How long did your films take?

Gaby: Well, Nosotros, Afroperuanos was from 2011 to 2013. And then, Baobab Flowers, I
started to explore this idea in 2014, and I finished a cut in 2o17, but I still in 2019 went back to
the project, after I got more funding for some production, and then I did the final cut in 2019.
So, it was a long process!

Nia: So, your MFA thesis took three years, before you went back and did more work on it?
[laughs]

Gaby: Exactly.

Nia: Okay. So, I asked you a question, and then instead of letting you answer, I asked you
another question. [laughs] But, the question originally was about how you chose education as
a topic for your MFA thesis.

Gaby: So, I was thinking on a topic that was close to my heart, and was important. At the
same time, I was shooting a project in São Paolo, and we interviewed Priscila, which is one of
the central characters of Baobab Flowers.

And, after I interviewed her, and I was reviewing her footage and her interview, I was stuck by
the way that she saw education, and the way that she taught history—she’s a history teacher in
a very underserved community in São Paolo—so, I was like, yes. She’s gonna be one of the
characters in a documentary. Because she really has this potential.

Her story allows you to talk about so many things that are important, like education and
women empowerment, and Black women, and motherhood. So, I was really impressed with
her, and then it was easy. I was like, yeah, she’s great, let me see if she’s available for a longer
project. And then, because I saw this potential of creating something that combined different
cultures, and bringing together.

I thought it was something special that happened in Nosotros, because we were able to go
capture information about Afro-Peruvians, and then show in Brazil, it’s about creating this
connection and interest, which is something that is—it might be shocking for people that live
here in the United States, but it’s not often that populations of the African diaspora connect.
So, being able to do that with that short documentary was really inspiring. So, like, oh, I
should continue to do that.
Nia: Yeah. Priscila, there is something about her that I don’t know to put into words, but as
soon as I saw her on screen, I was like, I want to know more about that person. [laughs]

Gaby: Exactly! She has that power. She has this driven force, is that how you say it? Driven
force?

Nia: Yeah. Or, driving force?

Gaby: Thank you, thank you. [laughs] Priscila has this driving force, this clarity about who
she is, and being comfortable in her own skin and speaking her mind, that, you know, you feel
fascinated by her. So then, after I found her. Well, no, I didn’t found anyone, right? [laughs]

After I decided to work with her, I started to look for a Black woman educator here in
Philadelphia, so I could make this project that would also be transnational, collaborative
between communities of the African diaspora. That was my intent in bringing two women
from two different countries, but they go to similar problems.

I started to be a very dedicated producer, and calling people, “do you recommend anyone that
is working in Philly?” “Can you recommend a teacher?” So, you know, calling one, two, five,
ten people, and eventually I landed on Nyanza. And from the start, she was really open. Which
is very surprising, because I’m a foreigner here, so sometimes I cannot convey my ideas a
hundred percent with clarity, but she was open to the project.

From the beginning, she was comfortable with me asking all this random questions, and even
without—at that point, when I started to interview her, I didn’t know how long of a project it
would be, how long it would take. I told her, “Can I do an interview, and then go to the
school,” and then she thought it will be done in a week, but then I didn’t stop shooting for the
next three years. [laughs]

Nia: [laughs] You’re like, can I tag along… forever?

Gaby: [laughs] Exactly. I see documentary process as an opportunity to connect with people
as well. To explore things that I have a deep interest on, to learn. For me, it was such a great
learning process. As someone who just arrived in Philadelphia in 2013, in 2014 when I started
to interview her, it was a great opportunity for me to get familiar with the city, with West
Philadelphia.

That is part of the city that a lot of people don’t visit to be honest, or go to specific places in
West Philadelphia. Especially when you’re a student, I see that a lot of the students in
undergraduate or graduate school, you feel so confined into that environment. So, for me I
saw it as an opportunity to learn about a city, learn about education inequity, understand the
African-American community, connect with wonderful and inspiring women, and exchange
ideas. So, yeah, I take it very personal.

Nia: It hadn’t even occurred to me that making a film is hard enough in a city that you do
know, never mind a city where you’re brand new. [laughs]
Gaby: Yeah, exactly. It’s all these logistical problems, having to go to places that I had no idea
where they are or how to get to. Not understanding that there is an express line that is not
gonna stop at that station. [laughs] And there’s a local line. [laughs] And then, having to
convey my thoughts with clarity in a foreign language. But, all that is part of the process, and I
took it from an opportunity to improve myself.

Nia: Yeah. I feel like… well, I’ll speak to my own experience. When I’ve made a short film,
there were so many logistical problems. And in your film, I never would have guessed that
there were any. [laughs] How did you end up at Temple? How did you hear about Temple
when you were in São Paolo?

Gaby: Yes. So, since I started my interest in filmmaking, when I was around 15, obviously
there was all this African-American production. Spike Lee films, and Fresh Prince of Bel-Air,
and the sitcoms, and so I started to dream of, I want to go to the US to study film, right?
[laughs] It makes sense. To learn from these great African-American filmmakers.

So, I tried when I was trying to enter undergrad, but I realized it was very, very hard, because
it was very expensive, and so it was a very hard process. Since that time, I got the information
that, if I wanted to pursue graduate school, it would be more funding opportunities. Because
schools here will be more willing to fund someone that fits their criteria.

So, after I worked in journalism in Brazil, I thought, yeah, it’s about time. I really need to
pursue this dream of mine again. And, I really want to go, and I don’t know how I’m gonna
make it, but I’m gonna make that happen. [laughs] That’s something I think that my parents
instilled in me, just try to exhaust all possibilities until giving up.

Because it’s really, really an expensive dream. For a lot of Brazilians, it was something nearly
impossible to be done. Even though we were middle class, because when you exchange rates
from Brazilian reais to American dollars, you lose a lot of money. For instance, now to buy one
dollar, you need to pay almost five reais. So, your whole money transforms into nothing.
[laughs]

So, side note. I started to look for universities that focused on documentaries in the US,
independent documentary production. And, I turned on my production bug, and inquired
many people about schools. And one person recommended me Temple. She’s an artist,
African-American scholar and artist, and she said “Temple has what you’re looking for, which
is a school focused on independent production. Temple has a tradition in documentary, and
you can also study in the African-American department, because we have a strong African-
American department.” This person was doing her PhD at Temple.

And another person in all this research I was doing, said that Philadelphia was a great city to
live at. They said it was beautiful and manageable. So, when I put those two things together, I
said yes, that’s a great school for me. I went to the website, I checked what the other students
were doing, and I said yes, that’s something I would be interested in being involved.

I checked other schools as well, of course, the most popular schools. You know, USC,
University of New York, NYU. But, Temple was the first that I applied, and it was the first to
accept, and everything kind of worked from there. Some universities, I did not even apply
because I got accepted. Some other universities I was not accepted. [laughs] And other
universities didn’t offer funding opportunities.

So, I had this trip planned to come and visit Philadelphia and New York, which is where I
wanted to study. Before that, I got the acceptance letter, so I came and I stayed in Philadephia
for like, ten days, and I attended classes, and I talked to students, faculty, and I told that I’m
looking for funding opportunities. You know, very straightforward.

Things got aligned, and I’ve got my family helping, so I need to be very thankful when
acknowledging that my family always backed my project. Part of that is being in the right
place at the right moment, too.

Nia: Totally. Well, I’m so glad you ended up here, because otherwise we never would have
met. [laughs]

Gaby: Me too, I’m so happy to have met you.

Nia: Same. I think there’s like, another question or two I want to ask about your second film
before we move on to Presente. I guess, just to give people who haven’t seen it yet an idea, it’s
sort of comparing the experiences of these two Black women educators, one of whom teaches
in São Paolo, and the other of whom teaches in Philadelphia. And seeing a lot of the structural
problems that they face are similar, in terms of teaching at majority-Black schools that are
very under-resourced.

One of the moments of the film that struck me, was, Priscila was talking to her students, and I
think you were there also. I think, maybe, they watched some of your footage from
Philadelphia, and they were talking about segregation, and saying, like, “Philadelphia is very
segregated, do you see that kind of thing here?” and the students were like, “No.” And then
she was like, “well, what about the favelas, though?” and they were like, “oh yeah!”

Gaby: Right! Like, uhhh, actually, yes. [laughs]

Nia: Yeah, so, it was interesting to me how they didn’t see it until it was sort of pointed… like,
how it’s easier to see when it’s somewhere else, I guess.

Gaby: Yeah, I think that scene speaks to how Afro-Brazilians neglect the issues that this
population faces. So, we don’t see ourselves in books, and we don’t see the racism that exists
in Brazil, because we were taught since an early age that Brazilians are equals, Brazilians are a
miscegenated population, there is no inequality because Afro-Brazilians play soccer, and some
of these Afro-Brazilians are very successful, or during Carnival, some of the Afro-Brazilian
women are celebrated because of their bodies.

But, this is not the point, right? In school, in the media, and in history, the government made
an effort to promote this idea of miscegenation and equality in Brazil. There are studies that
focus specifically on that. For instance, during the 70s, the government will bring a lot of
European immigrants, to whiten, literally whiten the country.

Because we had a lot of African slaves, and they didn’t want it to be a majority. So, they started
to offer a lot of opportunities after Second [World] War, for immigrants to come and get land,
and start over in Brazil. And this is why we have so many Italians, we have Germans in the
south, big population of Europeans, that now are Brazilians because we’re talking about third
generation, fourth generation now.

Nia: Did this policy of trying to recruit immigration from Europe have a particular name, for
people that are interested in learning about this history?

Gaby: Mmm-hmm. Yeah, you can learn about whitening, branqueamento.

Nia: That’s what the policy was called?

Gaby: No.

Nia: I was like, wow, that is very blunt. [laughs]

Gaby: No, but if you look for branqueamento—

Nia: It sounds like one of the ways people are discouraged from talking about race and racism
is this idea that like, “oh, we’re all just Brazilian, and therefore all the same and all equal.” I
think you brought up a really important point, which is that just because everyone is mixed,
doesn’t mean that everyone is equal. I feel like that’s kind of a common misconception about
mixed people. [laughs] That we’re gonna fix everything.

Gaby: Yes. So, if a person looks for “whitening in Brazil,” they will be able to find articles and
studies about the whole, this whole discussion. Because it’s part of studies, theses, and it’s
something that is being in the politics—like, a policy.

Nia: Yeah.

Gaby: Since the 18th century. And it always has been part of, somehow, some way, of internal
policy. So, of course, they would not label whitening process. They would call it, “Support after
World War Two,” but the real mission was to bring more Europeans and to whiten the
population. Scientific racism was something very prominent during the colonial era, and after,
too.

So, if a person looked for scientific racism in Brazil, they will, you’re gonna find Lombroso, it’s
the name of this doctor who had a big literacy on how Africans were intellectually inferior to
whites, and the government would acknowledge and use his studies to justify decisions. And
we’re talking about colonial era, right?

But, then you have a nation that was born into that mentality, it’s not going to be ten, twenty,
100 years to just change, because it’s in our genes. It’s in the Brazilian genes, this sentiment of
considering Blackness as everything that is negative, inferior, ugly. So, it’s very hard to just
change that now. We are a society that has so many slavery influences still. We say we’re very
colonial still, in our mentality. In the way that we speak, in the way that we interact, in beauty
standards, that it’s very hard to change. So, this is very prominent in Brazilian society, still.
Nia: Yeah. And it seems like one of the questions that you asked both the women in your
second film was also about decolonization, and what it would mean to decolonize education.
What inspired that question?

Gaby: Right, so, talking to Priscila and understanding more about the proposals of educators
or scholars into how we can progress the discussion of inequalities, I got familiarized with this
current, and kind of popular term now, “decolonize.” And, in Portuguese, there’s even two
variants: decolonize or dis-colonize. So, academics use decolonize, and non-academics made
popular the term dis-colonize.

Nia: So, just regular people?

Gaby: Yes. [laughs] But, they both have the same idea, that basically, how can we really shift
our mindset? Because, as I was saying, colonialism and injustice and discrimination, it’s in
Brazilian genes. So, how can we really change this mindset to a more democratic and equal
and gender-positive mentality? Understanding about this concept of decolonizing was really
important for me, and it was really important to ask them, what did they understood by
decolonization?

And, the answer was great. You know, Priscila was talking about the need to think about our
society from different perspectives. And the great example that she’ll give, even before I asked
this question, was, for instance, when she would teach the French Revolution from Haiti
perspective. So, now we’re gonna tell this story from people who were attacked, and had to
survive, and had to fight, we’re gonna hear from them.

Or just how we say, now, that Brazil was not discovered, and America was not discovered by
Christopher Columbus. We always existed here, so let’s change the narrative now. Let’s talk
about how Europeans invaded the Americas. So, that’s part of trying to decolonize our minds
and decolonize our gaze. Because we’re so used to seeing things from a specific unjust
perspective, that we need to train ourselves to see from a different angle.

Nia: Yeah. I really liked the scene—sorry, the American teacher, how do I say her name
again?

Gaby: Nyanza?

Nia: Nyanza. There’s a great scene with her and her kid in the backseat of the car, who’s
adorable. Where she’s asking him what he learned in school that day, and he said he learned
about the Renaissance. And she said, “You know, there’s more than one, you have to be more
specific.” And he said, “The European Renaissance.” And then later in the film, she’s teaching
him about the Harlem Renaissance, and it kinda comes full circle, and, I don’t know. I thought
that was very cool. [laughs]

Gaby: Yeah, no, exactly. Spending time with these two women is really an example of how we
need to reframe ourselves, and in their case because they are parents and educators, they need
to do that with much more intention. It’s really awesome.

Nia: Another thing I thought was interesting about both—I’m trying to think about how to
phrase this question, I’m worried it’s gonna come out problematic, but both of the women
were not just Black, but they were also… practicing African spiritual traditions, in sort of like
an intentional attempt to reconnect spiritually to the continent. Is that something you were
looking for, or that was just another coincidence?

Gaby: Yes, exactly. The fact that they both have kids, and although they were married at one
point in their lives, the fathers of their kids were not present, was a coincidence. And the fact
that they both practice religions of African descent was another huge coincidence. [laughs] It
was great, so I could take advantage of it for my narrative. [laughs]

Nia: [laughs]

Gaby: But, I was just impressed. Because Afro-Brazilians’ religions are very popular in Brazil,
even though a lot of people don’t like to say that they take part of Afro-Brazilian religion,
because they’re classified as voodoo, or something mysterious and dark, a lot of people
practice. But, here, you definitely don’t have this huge community that practices religions of
African descent. So, when I found out that Nyanza goes to the Ifá, and she’s extremely
devoted, I was really surprised.

Nia: Sorry—is Ifá the school?

Gaby: Yeah, so, it’s actually the same place. Ifá is the name of the religion, Ifá. This version
comes straight from Nigeria. And then, the same group that organizes the meetings, the
religious meetings, they also have a homeschool. So, this is where she will take her kids, two of
her kids, and also teach to the kids of the people who also take part in the Ifá.

Nia: Yeah. I think, when I watched the film, I understood that she put her kids in this sort of
like, Afrocentric homeschooling program, and that she practices African religion. But I didn’t
realize that the school and the religion were incorporated.

The last parallel I guess I want to talk about is, you know, there are a lot of parallels in these
women’s stories, but they both end up leaving the schools that they start at in the film. Which,
I was not expecting either of them to do that. And in the case of Nyanza, she left teaching after
a pretty traumatic experience of violence in the classroom, whereas Priscila left because she
wanted to be closer to her kids.

I guess my question is like… sorry, I’m still figuring out what it is. [laughs] I assume that you
didn’t anticipate that their lives would mirror each other in that way, that they would both go
through these major life changes as you were making the film. But, it seems like you might
have intentionally structured it so that those parallels were really clear. Is that fair to say?

Gaby: Yes. Yeah, definitely. I tried to structure in a way that you could see the similarities
between their lives. And it really took me by surprise when, I know that Nyanza was really—

Nia: [laughs] Sorry, it sounds like someone is beating eggs behind you!

Gaby: Oh, sorry. It’s my fan.

Nia: Sorry, we were talking about Nyanza, and her leaving. First, she was reassigned, and
then at the new school, that’s where the instance of violence happened.
Gaby: Right. So, both process were really surprising for both of us. She knew that it was a
possibility that she will be reassigned to a different school. But she thought that, because she
had a good experience and relationship at Overbrook, that this will not happen. So, she
mentioned—I think there’s one interview that she says that they’re cutting cost, that they are
reorganizing at Overbrook.

But then, when she was reassigned, she was in shock, and it really changed her whole life,
because she was used to going to Overbrook for a long period of time, working with this
population. And now she had to go to North Philly, which is a community that she was not
used to. The part that was curious was that they had a lot of Latinos in this school, and one
issue that she brought up was that they would talk in Spanish to her so that she could not
understand. So, that—that was not even part of the interview.

I thought at this moment, oh, it will be great for me to go and shoot there, but before I could
shoot, she left the school. She decided to leave the school, because it took a really big toll on
her, the fight, students fighting in the classroom. And the thing that she always clarifies is that
it’s not that she’s never seen violence. Like, she told me, and she showed me photos of
students that were killed, that she had to bury them, that she had to attend funerals before
from violence that happened in front of the school that she used to teach, in Overbrook.

But, I think that this moment, it kind of—it just built up. It was a lot of things. So, all those
years having to face violence, and having to deal with the situation, it kind of took a big toll on
her.

Nia: Yeah. I was really surprised when she said she was going to retire early, because she
looked so young. But also, teaching is a really hard job. I think a lot of people… to teach for a
really long time, takes a really special kind of person.

Gaby: Yes, definitely. It’s such a labor of love, because there are so many things that are
unseen. You know, like—and then that was this other connection, when you asked me about
the topic, right? For me, education was an important topic because I was able to experience
my whole life how the investment in education really opened the doors. And I know it can
sound very corny, but it is true.

Like, I was able to go to different places and have different opportunities, because my parents
made a priority for me to be involved in different experiences, educational experiences. Many
times in my life, I felt that I was the only one. You know, I’m the only Black woman here.
Why? I’m the only Black woman studying English, I’m the only Black woman travelling.

It’s just been so important for me to address this, so people can understand. Because a lot of
people take for granted the opportunities. Or, just decide not to look at inequalities. For me,
also, it was just shocking to see Overbrook, a school that’s totally under-funded, and then ten
minutes down the road you see another public school, but with a lot of resources.

Nia: Was it a charter?

Gaby: Yes. It could be a charter school, even a public school in a good neighborhood, in a
neighborhood that is in the suburbs or more affluent. So, it was just mind-boggling to see that
still, in a country that it’s extremely developed, and prides itself to lead the world
economically, you still have the same inequalities as a country that’s less economically
developed.

Black and brown communities are still offered terrible educational conditions. So, why? And
then you need to understand that this is structural racism, it’s everywhere. And this is a
deliberated politics taken in place, really, to prevent the success of minorities.

Nia: So, let’s talk about Presente. [laughs] So, you and I worked together briefly, that’s how
we met. And since we stopped working together, you started a whole new organization, and
it’s only been a couple months. So, what is Presente Media?

Gaby: Yes, Presente Media is a collective led by Latinx filmmakers, and our mission is to
produce journalism and also documentaries focused on social justice. So, we are focused on
racial and immigrant justice, educational equity, culture, and gender and LGBTQ equality.

That’s what we really are interested in, and we are focusing on community journalism, this is
our first project now. Document with articles and short videos the impact of COVID-19 in the
Latinx and other communities of color here in Philadelphia. So, it’s a brand new organization.
We started during the pandemic, as we saw the need to increase the report about communities
of color, especially Latinx community.

When we are in this process of talking to members of the community, listening to individuals,
we realize how they felt neglected and underinformed and ignored during COVID-19
pandemic. So, we came together and we saw that there was something that we could
contribute with our skills. And at the same time, have our own voices as creatives that are also
part of the community.

All of us are immigrants or first-generation and second-generation here in the United States.
So, we feel like we have a strong bond and a possibility to really document and inform the
community at large what’s going on and what needs to be addressed for more equity.

Nia: Yeah, and you started the collective with two other women, right? Can you tell me a little
bit about who they are?

Gaby: Yes, definitely. So, the collective is co-founded by Kristal Sotomayor, who is a
filmmaker, also descendent of Peruvian parents, and Melissa Beatriz, who is American,
Uruguayan filmmaker who is also based in Philly, and myself. So, we are this group formed of
immigrants — first- and second-generation immigrants — all women, that really want to
contribute to create a more diverse journalist landscape in Philadelphia.

Nia: I feel like you guys have already done a bunch of projects, can you talk a little bit about
what you’ve been working on?

Gaby: Sure. We, in this time, in the past two months, we saw the importance to attending the
marches that are happening during the pandemic, right? The Black Lives Matter marches. So,
we attended a few marches that were specifically on this topic, and we produced a video.

Nia: Sorry, specifically on which topic? On Black Lives Matter?

Nia: I think I saw one that was specifically Latinos for Black Lives?

Gaby: Yes, exactly. So, one of the videos covers the organized parallel march, but it’s not
really parallel. Like, organized action to support. One thing is that we’re trying not to say “the
Black Lives Matter march,” because it’s a specific movement. So, I need to remind myself that
we’re saying, “marches against systemic racism.”

So, one of the stories that we covered in these past three months, is about the support of
Latinx organizations to attend one of the marches against systemic racism here in
Philadelphia. And, two organizations led this action, Juntos y The New Sanctuary Movement.

So, for me particularly again, being an Afro-Brazilian, also an Afro-Peruvian, to see

And we also covered another march that was taking part in front of the art museum, where
they were requesting that funds for arts in Philadelphia not to be cut. Those were two marches
that we were able to attend, document, and come up with a finished video. Also, we wrote a
story, Kristal wrote a story, about this whole problem of lack of funding for the arts with the
new city budget.

Nia: Yeah. Just for people who are listening that might not be in Philly and don’t know. I was
gonna say after COVID-19, COVID-19’s not over—but, after it hit, the city’s plan was to
completely kill the Office of Arts, just, like, scrap it entirely. Which would have hurt a lot of
arts organizations here really badly. And I think they decided not to scrap it completely, but
they are funding it at a much lower level than they had been before.

Gaby: Exactly. So, Kristal wrote an article to explain a little bit of what was being cut, then
the government went back and decided to re-establish part of the funds, but to this day still,
it’s not clear how a lot of organizations focused on art are going to survive, are going to get
funding, so this is very troubling.

And then in the future, now that we are in production of our other stories, we are also—I’m
writing a story about just how racism is perceived in the Latinx community here in the United
States. I’m also gonna write a story about, with Melissa, about the impact of COVID-19 in
restaurant workers specifically, because most of the undocumented population works for
restaurants. I remember that you have experience working in restaurants, right, Nia?

Nia: I have done foodservice work, for sure, yep.

Gaby: We are gonna talk about this big issue of how Latinx workers are gonna deal with the
closure of restaurants, and how are they gonna be able to survive, also not qualifying for many
of the opportunities or the funding provided by government.

Nia: Yeah.
Gaby: So, it’s a huge problem, so we definitely want to be able to address that. We have
planned another story on feminism and COVID-19 that Kristal is gonna cover, and many
more. We’re very excited, we have ideas that we are working on, and we can’t wait to be able to
share more of our projects.

Nia: Yeah. I can’t wait, either. So, if people want to learn more and support what Presente is
doing, how do they do that?

Gaby: So, we have a website, it’s www.presentemedia.org. So, people can visit
presentemedia.org, people can follow us on Facebook and Instagram, Presente Media
Collective, and on Twitter, @presentemedia.

I’ll invite everyone to visit our homepage, and if people want to support our work, they are
able to donate through the website. We are fiscally sponsored by Culture Trust of
Philadelphia. If people can make donations that are fiscally deductible, and that way they can
collaborate with our project.

Nia: And, if they want to know more about you and your work specifically, where can they
find that information?

Gaby: They can visit my website, www.gabrielamedia.com, and there they can find my
contact, and write me, and send ideas.

Nia: Well, thank you so much for doing this. I’m sorry we went so long, but I really enjoyed
talking to you.

Gaby: No problem.

Nia: Next time we talk, we can just catch up and not have the pressure of this having to be
content. Alright, well, have an awesome rest of your day, I hope you get some rest.

Gaby: Thank you, you too!

Transcribed by Amirah Mizrahi