We Want The Airwaves - Osa Atoe

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Osa Atoe

Nia King: What was your Oakland experience?


Osa Atoe: Just like a lot of bad luck. Not just me, but people around me. I feel like
everyone was experiencing high levels of violence. Also, I dont know what it was about
that time, that attracted
I dont know. I had this crew of people of a lot of people of color, or what felt like a lot to
me at the time. Maybe looking back there were like ten, but to me that was like a shit-ton.
Most of them were queer, most of them were punk. And we all moved there around the
same time, all kind of looking for the same thing. All kind of feeling disillusioned and
burned by our white punk community... and like kind of looking to each other to provide
this like ideal community.
Nia: No pressure. (laughs)
Osa: Yeah, exactly. Its life so it didn't turn out perfect, but I don't have any regrets about
that phase in my life at all, like I had to go through it, and everyone goes through it. I
mean, the older I get the more I see how universal experiences are. I think it is important
to kind of explain to people that your experiences are different, and youre having a
different time because of your identities and all that stuff, but at the same time I feel the
older I get the more I see certain experiences as kind of universal.
Like I tied my feelings of disillusionment in punk to like being a person of color and like
that not being an easy home for people of color right? But then, I just feel like, thats life
and like everyone has that. Like as a young person - I mean, part of being young is being
a little bit naive and having certain levels of expectations about things and getting let
down, you know? I think everyone can relate to feeling like, you know, holding
somethingwhether its a parent, or a scene or whateverup on a pedestal and then
realizing that its imperfect and not ideal and getting let down. And I feel thats formative,
like it makes us adults and makes us who we are. So, basically I'm done being
butt-hurt about it even though I was about it for a very long time.
Nia: There was a piece in Shotgun Seamstress about living in Oakland and
constantly being confused for Brontez Purnell.
Osa: That was surreal. That man is famous, let me tell you. People were like
BRONTEZ!!!!! I was like wow, is this what its like to be Brontez? This is awesome!
Except that Im not him.
Nia: But it was you that was getting confused for him?
Osa: Yeah. Im sure its happened to other people. I mean its happened to all of us. I got
confused with Adee a lot, but we look NOTHING alike. I shouldnt have to explain that.
That we look nothing alike. I mean its happened here [in New Orleans] with bandmates

of mine, I was in a band with a woman named Takiyah, like maybe six inches taller than
me, different skin tone, etc. But shes a Black person who plays in bands, and people
would be like youre Osa. (laughs) You know. I mean it just happens, it happens.
I've thought about it all different kinds of ways. I mean, initially just being like this
pisses me off, you know? This is like ridiculous. In this scene that pretends not to notice,
you know what I mean? Cause nobody wants to put words to it or like talk about it really
except for like white people wanting to be like, This other person was so fucked up
about race this one time, I cant believe it! In terms of my race being addressed, it never
is, and everyone tries to act like its kind of a non-issue, but then thats the first thing you
notice about anybody though. When youre getting confused with someone that you don't
look like just because youre both Black, that tells me that thats the first thing that you
notice. Thats deep! In a context/situation where everyone is pretending that it doesn't
exist. It just becomes the elephant in the room, you know. It makes shit really
uncomfortable and it kind of makes you see white people for who they are, like how they
really view the world, you know?
Nia: In one of the pieces I read by youI cant remember if it was an interview or one of
your columns for Maximum RocknRollbut you talked about wanting Shotgun
Seamstress to be an explicitly Black punk zine because you wereI actually wrote it
down but I think it was likeInstead of constantly having my experience subsumed
under this POC umbrella. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Osa: Oh yeah, just like on the West Coast, especially in sub-cultural communities or
Scenes, theres just not that many like Black people. Black Black people. There are
mixed-race and biracial people, there are Asians and Latinos, but theres just not that
many actually Black people. Because of terms like Oppression Olympicswhich has
been a helpful term, obviously like because we shouldn't be, like competing over whose
like, the most oppressedbut that term also became silencing to people who were like
but it is different being a dark-skinned person around all you light-skinned people. It is
different, but you cant really say that because then youll be accused of playing
Oppression Olympics, you know? You kind of have to be like, Yes, we are all people of
color, together. I dont know.
I mean I have mixed-race and Latino people and people of different races in Shotgun
Seamstress that show up periodically; just because I do feel like interracial solidarity is
important. Thats a given. Its not to be exclusive, but I felt like I needed that [Blackcentered space]. I was basically making a zine that I felt like I needed to see. That would
draw around me the people that I needed to make community with, and I feel that it
worked, in a really huge way.
Nia: Yeah. When I moved to the Bay I was really surprised by how few Black people I
saw when I was in POC spaces. Because I felt like coming from the East Coast, POC
had just really meant Black. (laughs) Then I got to the Bay, and when I was in POC
spaces it was mostly Asian and Latino folks and very few Black folks. It was a real like,
adjustment. (laughs) But I feel like now theres kind of a cultural shift happening, not

saying that it has happened or that its complete, but I feel like there is sort of a
movement to distinguish between Black and other POC, in terms of the way they
experience racism
Osa: What, because of Black Lives Matter? And stuff like that or?
Nia: Maybe? I don't know, I think that could definitely be a part of it. I don't know,
I guess... So I was in Toronto recently, and I heard the term QTBIPOC for the first time,
which is Queer, Trans, Black, Indigenous, and People of Color, and now back in the Bay
Im starting to see QTIPOC. Having not known those terms before, I thought QTBIPOC
was Queer Trans and Bisexual People of Color and QTIPOC was Queer Trans and
Intersex People of Color
Osa: Me too, thats what I would've assumed.
Nia: Ok. I feel like if this is your land, if you are indigenous, you have a different
relationship to this land than other people of color. If you were descended from slaves, or
were forcefully relocated to the US, then you also have a really different experience than
people who emigrated here by choice. But youre not descended from slaves, your
parents chose to come here?
Osa: They live here by choice.
Nia: Right, but still as dark-skinned Black person the way you experience racism is very
different than lighter skinned or a non-Black
Osa: Yeah! Because Im lumped in, like I mean I think that my inner experience is
different than African-Americans whose descendants were brought here as slaves, but
like from the outside gaze, Im kind of just lumped in like Im just any other Black
person. I mean, growing up I had as many African-American friends as I had immigrant
friends. My best friends were like first-generation Vietnamese, first-generation Iranian.
Yeah. I think it definitely makes me a different person, a different kind of like human
being. I think that my inner struggle is different, you know?
I think African-Americans often seem to be struggling with a loss or lack of identity
because they feel they don't know where theyre from. I dont have that. Although I feel
my ancestry is a blur, like I don't know about anyone before my grandparents really, even
though we are all from Nigeria. So, I mean at least I can tie it to a country. Some people
cant. I definitely feel my experiences diverges from like African-Americans experiences
in many, many different ways.
I also feel like I have to share the burden of like the stereotypes and prejudices about
Black people because on sight Im just a Black person like anybody else you know. Also
I had African parents who were pretty aligned with African-American culture, like I do
know Africans who were raised to feel as though theyre different and somehow better,
because we all have internalized racism and like everyone is always trying to differentiate

themselves from the other oppressed group


(Cat meows loudly.)
Yeah, there is a thing that happens where Africans don't want to feel theyre on the
bottom rung, so theyll make themselves feel like they're slightly superior to AfricanAmericans. There is actually a really horrible word in Yoruba that means wild animal
that Yoruba people use to describe African-Americans. And my mom used to use the
word but she didn't know what it really meant, until the last twenty years or something. I
remember being an adult when she was like, I just found out what it meant and now I
don't say it anymore.
Yeah, that totally exists, but fortunately my family was more like, Youre Black and you
need to work twice as hard to prove youre smart and prove youre worthy. Kind of
typical. There was a lot of Ebony magazines and Cosby Show. I felt very much a part of
Black American culture growing up, you know? I think also the part of the country I grew
up in. Its like we had Black History Month, we celebrated Frederick Douglass birthday;
I was exposed to Kwanzaa as a young person. I feel like I got all ends of it in a really
good, healthy way.
Nia: Yeah when I think of DC, especially in the 90s, I think of very Afrocentric like
African-Americans trying to reclaim Africanness.
Osa: Like Queen Latifah, you remember she always used to like wear those little
hats and like she
Nia: My dad wore one of those! (laughs)
Osa: Yeah, I miss that! When I go back and look at those like 90s videos, those 90s
rappers; they were so Afrocentric, like wearing those big African medallions and stuff
like that.
Nia: That mustve been kindve weird for you, as a person whose parents actually
Osa: It wasnt weird!
Nia: No? (laughs)
Osa: No, it was cool! And my parents were all about it too! One of my friends forwarded
me this article about um, how African-Americans wearing traditionally African prints and
stuff like that is cultural appropriation. Im like, I don't know, man. I think this is gone a
little too far.
My family has no problem with it, in fact my parents love it. My mom, especially loves
it. She thinks its nice and awesome. To her, imitation is flattery. There is that really real
issue of Black people in this country just not feeling like they have a culture to tie into. I

mean, it gets a little bizarre, like when people are renaming themselves a lot. My parents
would be like, That first name is from Ghana and that last name is from Nigeria. Doesn't
make any sense, but go ahead. You know, Go Africa! They never hated it, but
theyd be like, theyre mispronouncing that or whatever. They werent mad. They had
other shit to be mad at, like white people being racist.
My parents were pretty chill about that kind of thing. I never felt pitted against other
Black people at all when I was growing up. But I did experience white people being like
You are different. Youre different, because of the way I talk, because of my parents
being from a different place
Nia: Youre different from other Black people or youre different from white
people?
Osa: Other Black people. So, thanks, white people for always inserting that
divisiveness where it didn't even need to be. You know? It wasnt there before.
Nia: Yeah. Do you want to talk about the New Bloods at all?
Osa: Sure, what do you want to know? (laughs)
Nia: Was your music explicitly political, or?
Osa: Not really, I mean it depends on what you mean by explicit. I think it was political.
I think we tried to make our sound reflect our backgrounds and our love of West African
music, like Afrobeat and stuff like that. But at the end of the day were also really
inspired by like The Raincoats and ESG and bands like that. So, it was kind of like this
creative post-punk band, and I think the lyrics kind of took on a more dreamy,
imaginative aspect. But always pointing to like our favorite writers like Edwidge
Danticat, and things like that.
Nia: That wasn't your first band, right?
Osa: Not at all. (laughs)
Nia: Was it the most well-known?
Osa: Yes!
Nia: Ok. Why do you think that was?
Osa: I dont know. It just happened. (laughs) Right place, right time. It was a weird fluke.
Also, Kill Rock Stars had just moved from Olympia to Portland, so I feel like it was
easier for us to be on their radar, because we were in the same town. If we hadnt been, it
wouldnt have happened or it wouldve taken longer or something. It just happened. It
wasn't this great time in my life by any means. Like, it was kind of a low point. Somehow

the three of us just got together and started making this music. I mean, I've been in a lot
of bands before then and I never expected anything of any of my bands. It was just a
thing that I was constantly working at: putting together bands, playing shows, trying to
keep them together.
Nia: Sounds like a lot of work.
Osa: Yeah, it is a lot of work and I don't really do it that much anymore. New
Bloods was a crazy fluke.
Nia: Was it an all-girl band?
Osa: Mhm.
Nia: Depending on how you look at it, that could be seen as inherently political.
Especially for a band thats traveling on the punk circuit.
Osa: Yeah.
Nia: Do you agree or disagree? (laughs)
Osa: I just don't know whether I agree or not. I mean, I feel like its not even for me to
say. I feel like art is amazing in the way that you put it out there and people take it like
they take it. It was a creative expression for me. I love music, and I feel so glad that I got
to create music that I enjoy listening to, today, that doesn't make me cringe when I play it
back for myself. It was a really transformative experience, it was also, there were also
very dysfunctional aspects to it. (Laughs) Which always happens, like you know. Its just
really hard. We were all younger versions of ourselves.
Like I said, that was right after I moved back to Portland from Oakland, and I had gone
through so many like stressful and emotional things that I probably didn't react to much
and at the time as a result started having panic attacks after I left Oakland and moved
back to Portland, so it was a lot of me, like feeling and experiencing a lot anxiety and
stress that I kind of bottled up over the course of a year. So thats a mental state that I was
in a lot of the time I was in that band.
I hope that women, that people in general but especially women listen to that record, and
are inspired by it, because we felt really empowered in ourselves, and became more
empowered. Like I feel like Cassie was the youngest member of the band and I saw her
transform the most during the course of it. Just, the power that you garner when you
organize things, and make things happen. And make art that people you respect and
admire enjoy and appreciate is just amazing, you know?
So, in that way, I feel like I really try to pass that on to other people too; through
constantly being in bands, with women who haven't been in a lot of bands, or who don't
play instruments, like Cassie had never played bass before that band, but she had played

keyboards before, and shes so musically inclined that it was like, whatever.
But, yeah, and like doing things like Not Enough Fest here in New Orleans, where I'm
just trying to encourage people to like start bands, and that punk is a place for you to just
get started even if you're not great at your instrument, just like start with some level of
urgency, and let that carry you through. Just because I feel like being in a band is such a
easy, accessible way to empower yourself. It connects to all these different things, like
being creative, yeah; but like then also like setting up shows, getting to travel, meeting
people; widening your world. Like, broadening your circle. Getting validation, giving
validation, having to do shit like, fucking change your tire on the side of the road. Like
you have to do sooooooo much, you know?
And also like, always interacting in like really male spaces. Like, you have to be
comfortable going to a music store, and like talking about whats wrong with your
instrument to people who think you dont know what youre fucking talking about; or
when you get your van checked out for a tour youre dealing with men who think you
don't know what you're talking about. When youre doing sound, youre interacting with
men who think you don't know how to play your instrument or know what you're talking
about. Like, you have to weather all this shit. [Laughs] You know what I mean? And its
whatever, its not the hardest thing in the world. I had a lot of fun, and so, I don't know;
thats why I think why Im a little bit like, Was it political? or like When people say
its political does that mean it was difficult? because it didn't feel like much of a
sacrifice, it felt like a great privilege, an honor to do all the things that we did.
Nia: Thats a great answer! [Laughs] So, you work in a bunch of different
mediums. Youre a writer, youre a potter You look unsure
Osa: Yeah, I mean, you know
Nia: Do you not consider yourself a writer?
Osa: I dont, but I do write, and Ive always found it annoying when women are like
Oh, I don't really play music, but they play music. So I see myself doing that same
thing.
But at the same time it really wasnt anything I was ever trying to like, hone as a craft or
anything. Like, pottery is like something I'm definitely trying to get better at. Music
was something I took really seriously and practiced and tried to get better at. Writing
is like, something I do when Im feeling it. I don't write all the time, you know
what I mean? It just always felt incidental and not like something I was like really, really
working really, really hard on. So maybe thats why I don't identify as a writer, its always
been a side thing.
Nia: So, thats interesting for a couple reasons. First of all, cause you wrote the zine
thats like really historically important. [laughs] I feel like thats kind of maybe the
thing youre most well known for?

Osa: It probably is because its the thing thats been able to last the longest cause I
did it by myself. So, like when you're in bands, you know; you quit, someone else quits,
whoever moves, and Shotgun Seamstress was something I could bring with me. I cant
believe its lasted this long.
Nia: But I also think that its the Black punk zine. Like, there are others but I feel
like yours was one of the first and the longest-running.
Osa: Probably, at this point. Also, its like a fan zine too. I do read zines by other Black
zinesters, but theyre mostly personal. I feel like Im actually kind of collecting a lot of
different peoples experiences and that makes it a thing, you know?
Nia: Yeah, I think thats what I meant but it didnt come out quite right. Similar to
Evolution of a Race Riot, part of why its important is because its not just one persons
perspective. Clearly this is something that is going on a broader scale, that people are
feeling this sort of outsider-dom. I feel like Shotgun Seamstress is more about Black
outsiders and Black weirdos than it is about Black punk. You kind of have an interesting
and broad definition of what punk is. But then also youve written for like Colorlines.
Osa: Just that one time though. [laughs]
Nia: Youve written a bunch for Anti-Gravity.
Osa: Mhm!
Nia: Youre a fucking writer! [Laughs]
Osa: Okay! [Laughs] I mean, the way the Anti-Gravity stuff works is like Oh, I invited
this person to town, and they need some publicity. So let me just interview them to help
them out and spread the word, you know what I mean? Its almost like incidental to like
the fact Im setting up of a show for someone. Like 9-out-of-10 times thats the way it
goes down with Anti-Gravity. Its part of DIY, its like Im putting on the show, Im
promoting it, Im doing the interview, Im basically like bringing this person to town.
Nia: But youre also getting published, by a publication that is not run by you.
Osa: Yeah, but I also feel like New Orleans is really small and a lot of people have the
opportunity to do that. This is a really small city compared to others. When I
lived in Portland, I wouldn't have thought I could be published in the Willamette Week or
the Portland Mercury. It felt really further away, further out of reach, cause I didn't know
those people. But here, its like the editor of Anti-Gravity might come to your show. Its
just really small. Then also I was already writing for Maximum when I moved here so
that put me on the radar a little bit more.
Yeah, Ill claim it: Im a writer. I just don't think about it that much. Theres other things I
spend way more time and energy doing. I mean, I write zines because I didn't want to feel

a lot of pressure to make it perfect, I just wanted to say what I had to say.
Nia: But you also lay out every page by hand.
Osa: Yeah.
Nia: Why? [laughs] Is that important to you?
Osa: Thats the way I know how to do stuff. Yes. I believe that zines are supposed to be
intimate; and I don't write personal zines. I don't write a lot of myself, but I feel the way I
can insert myself into it, and make it personal to me, is by like touching every page, just
like showing my aesthetic style I guess, and kind of like collecting it in a way that
represents kind of who I am or whatever. But also, thats just the way I know how to
work. Like I don't really know how to use Photoshop or page layout things very well.
And I like it. I like cutting and pasting a lot. So, yeah. And also I mean I only do one zine
a year, so I get to take my time with it; well usually theres some kind of Oh, I need to
get this ready for Chicago Zine Fest crunch-thing that I do, that just helps me get things
done. Like having a deadline helps me finish things.
Nia: So the Naija Punx issue is the newest one right?
Osa: Oh no, that was six and a half so that came after #6 which was published in
like 2011. And then there was a #7, that was the issue after I quit, but that one was really
different. It was me talking about booking shows for female- and queer-fronted bands
under the name No More Fiction here in New Orleans. So thats like the first time I
think I wrote a lot of personal anecdotes and stuff from my experience. And #8 was back
to business as usual. Its a full-size zine, the first time Ive done full-size. And its like
interviews with people and whatever. But then I looked at it, like what you're saying; Im
like all these people are old and weird. Like I don't think either of those words are insults,
you know?
Nia: Thats part of what makes your zine so cool!
Osa: [Laughs] I love talking to older people. And I love talking to freaks. When I looked
back at it, I was just like this person was fifty, this person was sixty, and they don't even
claim punk but they embody the spirit of the zine. So, there you go.
Nia: Yeah, and I think thats what makes it so great. Like you have, you know, an
interview with like, a Black woman whos been a tattoo artist for a really, really long time
in New Orleans.
Osa: Miss Jackie!!! That was amazing!
Nia: I wanted to ask about interviewing Poly Styrene.
Osa: Okay.

Nia: Did you interview her in person?


Osa: No, it was by email. And till this day Im like Was it really her? But I think it
was. [Laughs] You know what I mean? It just felt too easy. Like, she had a personal
website, I think she still has it. I mean I think its still there, even though shes passed.
There was an email contact, and I just was like, Hey would you like to do this thing?
And she wrote me back.
Nia: Were you surprised by your answers? Cause I felt like you were maybe kind of
trying to steer her in a certain direction?
Osa: Yeah, I mean cause when you listen to a band for a long time, and like if
theres a Black woman singing a song about identity youre like, Its cause you're
Black! [Laughs] You just assume, like what else could it be about? And she was like,
No, its about my friend, its about this and that. Yeah, I definitely felt surprised by
some things she said.
Nia: Disappointed, or just surprised?
Osa: Oh no, no, no. I don't remember feeling disappointed by that interview at all.
Nia: Yeah. I mean obviously I would be super excited just to talk to her, but I feel
like, there was a part where youre asking her did she consider X-Ray Spex a feminist
band cause shes such a feminist, and she was just kind of like Eh? I thought that
maybe that might be a moment where like
Osa: I dont remember that, so, it didn't stand out to me. But all those bands do that,
like there was an interview I read with Gang of Four where someone was asking if
Entertainment was a political record, theyre like, Nope. Nope, wasn't political at all.
The cover is like a picture of a white cowboy shaking like a Native American hand. Its
all about deceit and deception and colonization and shit. Like every song on that album
has to do with some kind of like social commentary or whatever. I don't why people want
to backpedal! I mean maybe it has to do with like not feeling as political anymore, not
feeling like in the moment youre representing that radical belief, and not wanting to be a
hypocrite. So you just like distance yourself or something. Cause as people get older they
get a little bit more mild. You know, a lot of the time.
Nia: Sometimes, sometimes they get more fiery.
Osa: Its true. But Im just trying to figure out why people always backpedal. I don't
know.
But the thing with Poly Styrene though that I really, really do relate to though, is her
and a lot of people from the early days of punkwere like Yeah I'm Black, but Im like
such a weirdo and I need this scene and like being Black isn't like my primary struggle in
this world. I really felt, feel that way about Poly Styrene. I think that she was like so

strange that race wasn't the primary struggle for her. She had a white family and a Black
family. She seems like shes pretty well-adjusted for being a person of color in Britain at
the time. But like, I think that she really was just weird and eccentric and I think thats
where her truest identity lied. And like thats what were getting, with like her music.
Like an expression of that. And thats been a really comforting idea for me as Ive gotten
older and like gone all which ways. Cause its like, I went though my disillusionment
time with punk, and distanced myself from the like super white punk scene or whatever.
And then kind of went back to it, cause its like I still am always playing in punk bands,
and Im still always helping my friends book punk shows and music has been the primary
thing thats kept me in this world.
But I think its just been really helpful for me to hear other people of color being like
totally avoiding making hierarchies in identity, cause like I dont ever want to choose
what I identify with morebut just saying like, my punk identity, my freak identity, the
thing that makes me weird is the thing that I am most in the world. Thats how I find my
community, through that. Because Im not like actively Black. Im incidentally Black
everyday. But what I am doing everyday is making things. The activities are who I am,
like the things I am doing all the time are like who I am. Being Black is like this
incidental thing. Im proud of it, of course. But its not what I do. You know? Its just like
what I was born with.
So, I don't know, its made me more comfortable and more at home just being like Look,
like Im in the punk scene not because of racial identity or anything else. But just because
this is what I relate to. This is what I do. This is what I spend my time doing. When I
make art it ends up looking punk and these people like it. And they support me. Im
inspired by punk art and punk bands. I always find it really exciting. I think it looks good.
I think political punk art is my favorite kind of art.
Like, I dont know, I just think that hearing from other people of color especially back in
the day, like I think Alice Bag would say something along those lines too. Like I think
Ive heard her say something along those lines as well, where its like, Yeah, Im proud
of my Mexican culture. Of course. You know. But, that wasn't my primary battle in life.
When I was in the punk scene, I felt at home there cause Im a freak like these other
people. Its just been really good for me to hear that. I always think about that with
Poly Styrene, and I was in no way disappointed with any of her answers at all, but I was
surprised. And I think thats great. Im glad, I want to be surprised by an interview.

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