In Ottawa, we think money for transit is 'spending' rather than 'investment' in the absolute basics of city life. That's the wrong mindset.
  • Tired8281@lemmy.ca
    51·
    2 years ago

    That’s why it’s bad policy to think about transit in terms of making a profit. It’s a public service, that’s the profit, and we all get it.

    • snooggums@kbin.social
      41·
      2 years ago

      Isn’t it weird that public transit ‘needs to be profitable’, but roads and the infrastructure it drive on doesn’t?

      • Krelefante@lemmy.world
        4·
        2 years ago

        It is profitable. To car manufacturers. Without upgrades to infrastructure like roads and parking structures, congestion would eventually get so bad people would be more likely to stop buying cars and move to alternate transportation options.

        • FireRetardant@lemmy.world
          3·
          2 years ago

          Those other options actually have to exist for the shift to happen, otherwise other significant hurdles exist like having to move closer to work or change jobs to accommodate ditching car dependancy.

    • zephyreks@lemmy.ca
      10·
      2 years ago

      Transit is profitable, though. Second-order and third-order effects make transit extremely profitable even by the most pessimistic estimates.

      • FireRetardant@lemmy.world
        6·
        2 years ago

        Part of what resists this in North America is their sprawling developments. It often increases travel distance, time, and cost while also being poorly connected to other modes of transit/walkability. Quality transit and denser, mixed use urban fabric go hand in hand. A single bus stop brings less value to a neighbourhood of large lot SFH than a single bus stop brings to a mixed use street, an apartment building, or neighbourhood of townhomes.

  • Moyer1666@lemmy.ml
    44·
    2 years ago

    Public transit should never be treated as an investment that should produce a return. It’s an service provided for people to use. It should be cheap or free. I’ll never understand why people get confused about this stuff, it’s like the dip shits here in the US that’ll complain that the USPS doesn’t make money. It’s not supposed to

    • BarqsHasBite@lemmy.caEnglish
      28·
      2 years ago

      The return it produces is not immediate cash flow, but the return is vast and on many fronts.

      • snoons@lemmy.caEnglish
        7·
        2 years ago

        Certainly; however, most people don’t seem to think that far. All they can do is add and subtract.

    • Rocket@lemmy.ca
      14·
      2 years ago

      Public transit should never be treated as an investment that should produce a return

      It absolutely needs to produce a return. There are real lives involved in building and operating transit. Without returns, that is a life wasted that could have been used to do something useful for society.

      It should be cheap or free.

      Quite possibly. The returns need not come from fares. The fare is for rider management – ensuring that the buses and trains aren’t overcrowded. The fare needs to only be as high as is required to ensure that there isn’t someone not able to fit on the train when it stops.

      If you have 100 people waiting on the platform and the train can only hold 50 people, the fare is too low. If the train has room for 100 people, but only 50 are waiting on the platform, the fare is too high.

      But there has to be returns. Asking someone to metaphorically dig a hole in your backyard for no reason other than to watch them sweat is gravely detrimental to society.

  • MapleEngineer@lemmy.caEnglish
    26·
    2 years ago

    You know what matters a lot more than balancing budgets? Defining public transit as a true public service and making sure the people who depend on it the most, those who have few other options to get to where they need to be, have transit available to them when they need it at a cost they can afford.

    This is the problem. Public transit is seen as a service used by poor people. In Europe public transit is used by everyone because it is the best, fastest option to get to where you are going. When I travel to London I take the train from the airport to Victoria station them walk to my hotel. Everywhere else I go is by tube or by train. I have never rented a car and only hired a van when I had a group of people and a bunch of luggage to move a long distance.

    If public transit worked (Ottawa LRT anyone?) and we stopped making traveling by car convenient, people would use public transit.