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Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Space Shuttle Atlantis launches from KSC on STS-132

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Original - Space Shuttle Atlantis lifts off from Launch Pad 39A at NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida on the STS-132 mission to the International Space Station at 2:20 p.m. EDT on May 14. The last scheduled flight of Atlantis before it is retired.
Alt 1 - Space Shuttle Atlantis lifts off from Launch Pad 39A at NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida on the STS-132 mission to the International Space Station at 2:20 p.m. EDT on May 14. The last scheduled flight of Atlantis before it is retired.
Reason
The only other launch photo we have as a FP is File:Space Shuttle Columbia launching.jpg which is rather poor quality. This one is an amazing shot of a historic flight.
Articles in which this image appears
STS-132 (for Original) and Space Shuttle (for Alt 1)
FP category for this image
Aeronautics and aviation/Space
Creator
NASA

Which one? Or should we promote both? Makeemlighter (talk) 02:59, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

9 supports for Original, no direct opposes.
7 explicit supports for Alt (plus one indirect by Gazhiley), 2 direct opposes for Alt and one implied oppose by J Milburn.
8:3 if you take the indirect and implied, is 72% support. That would seem to indicate it would pass too. — raekyT 03:19, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm changing my oppose to weak oppose only. --I'ḏOne 16:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There's a serious problem with promoting both- I would imagine most who voted "support both" didn't actually mean "I would support having two featured pictures showing exactly the same thing to cram into the article next to each other". J Milburn (talk) 10:23, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
They're not used in the same article, they're properly used in separate articles to illustrate different things. If the voters read the previous comments then they knew very well what supporting both meant, imho. — raekyT 14:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting, but, again, why is the second one better than the first for illustrating that in particular? Or vice versa? It seems to me that we have two very nice pictures showing the same thing. That's all well and good, but that doesn't mean we should promote them both. The usage of the first image has more EV (the second image is just "this is a cool picture of one that's gonna be retired soon") and clearly has more support. Regardless of the merits of the images, I think it's fairly clear that that should be the one promoted. J Milburn (talk) 19:38, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Further, there's fairly clearly a procedural problem with nominating two separate images for two different purposes in the same nomination- we offer alts as "perhaps it should be this instead", rather than "also, this". If, as you claim, the two images derive their EV from different articles, then the fact they are of the same thing is incidental- it's the equivilent of me nominating an image of a fish and an image of a galaxy in the same nomination. If you want the second image to be promoted, I think, as it is now an image unrelated to the first, it should really have its own nomination, rather than getting tacked on here. J Milburn (talk) 19:47, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well yes, it's not standard procedure, the second was offered as a alt, but Gazhiley wanted to promote both, and no one objected to turning this into a double nomination to simplify things. So thats where we're at. Nothing expressly prohibits not having multiple images in one nomination, remember the recent elemental gas discharge tube nomination, each of those was a separate subject driving their EV in separate articles... — raekyT 00:13, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
They were, for all intents and purposes, the same image, used in the same way. This is not comparable. That's like saying that because an album cover can be used under a template non-free use rationale in an article on the album, it's legitimate to copy-paste the rationale of a logo in a company article to a painting in an article on the artist. That nomination was about saving hot air- if we promoted one, it was obvious we would promote them all- certainly not so here. And no, there's is no explicit guideline against it, but we don't explicitly have guidelines against a lot of things... There's no explicit guideline against renominating an image as soon as it fails, but I'm sure you'd think I was a dick if I did it. "There's not a rule against it!!!" is not an argument in favour of doing something. J Milburn (talk) 09:47, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't part of the original discussion here, but looking back and reading through the comments I think the consensus is pretty clear: both doesn't mean one or the other, it means the two of them. The images are used in different articles individually with different purposes. If it comes to it, the voters should be contacted and asked to clarify their intentions. That would resolve the issue completely. Cowtowner (talk) 04:05, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Promoted File:Space Shuttle Atlantis launches from KSC on STS-132.jpg --Makeemlighter (talk) 05:15, 18 August 2010 (UTC) Promoted File:Space Shuttle Atlantis launches from KSC on STS-132 side view.jpg --Makeemlighter (talk) 05:15, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Consensus is to promote both. In a few months, we should check back to see if they are both stable in the articles. One or both might be suitable for delist in the future. As J Milburn stated earlier, it's hard to say both of these images have sufficient EV for FP since they illustrate the same thing. We also have a recently promoted video showing the launch of this shuttle. Three FPs of the same subject seems like overkill. The shuttle articles are all pretty highly illustrated, though, so perhaps it's reasonable. Regardless, we'll see if they remain stable in the articles. On a completely different note, let's try to keep nominations to just one image apiece in the future. Edits are fine, but completely different shots lead to complicated discussions like this one. Cheers, Makeemlighter (talk) 05:15, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]