Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shakir Pichler

Shakir Pichler

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Article contains no reliable sources, has been marked as such for over 4 years. I've looked for sources but have been unable to find anything reliable or reputable, Google News, Newspapers and Books turns up nothing at all. Current text is likely original research, possibly advertising - suspicion they've been written by the person the article is about. Also question the notability. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Halfwaywrong (talk • contribs) 13:12, 12 November 2024

Delete - seems self-promotional, not even 130 results on Google Search. Not much on Google News either, bunch of social media links or brief mentions. starship.paint (talk / cont) 13:24, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Bands and musicians, and Australia. Skynxnex (talk) 17:15, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Starship.paint. and Halfwaywrong.

I was a bit surprised to see this page nominated for deletion out of the blue after its been online since I think 2007 or so.

There are currently About 1,570 results in google for "Shakir Pichler" in quotes and that's not including the extraneous ones if googled without quotes.

The sources are reliable - IMDB for example but I think it could do with some proper formatting perhaps.

I have edited it from time to time when others have added incorrect data as well as removing old social links like myspace from the days of old :) and this page is also linked on various other wiki pages band line-ups and feature films for example.

It's certainly not being used for 'self promotion' in any way but it is factual of someone who has made a worthy contribution to both Australian music as well as Australian and Hollywood feature films so not sure why it was targeted to be honest.

There are a bunch of other credible links I could provide when I have the time and I should edit the page to make it more up to date at some point.

Anyway, again, it's definitely not 'self promotional' just because I made sure it was factual.

I'd love some help in adding all the proper ref links (film credits) (Band credits) and things to make sure it adheres to any changing wiki regulations.

Thank you. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 01:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sexbeatrecords: - allow me to acquaint you with WP:RSP, where you can see that WP:IMDB is in fact generally unreliable. I suggest you find reliable sources to bolster the article. starship.paint (talk / cont) 11:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Starship.paint. Thanks. Wow, I always thought IMDB was highly ranked but good to know.

Every film credited on this wiki page is verifiable on each feature film's official imdb sub page but interesting to know it's not a reliable link even though some of the titles are big Hollywood movies.

Hopefully there are links to each film's official info separately somewhere although I have no idea where to look. The production companies involved perhaps?

WP:RSP does mention that there are exceptions to the unreliable sources. I would have thought that each film's official IMDB entry would be ok? like for one example "Jasper Jones" and then view all cast and crew to see "Shakir Pichler' listed as action vehicles coordinator. etc https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5091014/ Or still not good?

As I mentioned, I'd love to clean up the formatting of this page to adhere to Wiki's best practice. And how to add and format proper inline links...

Thanks again for your quick reply and advice. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 08:19, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sexbeatrecords: - actually the main concern here is WP:GNG. To put it in a different way, is Shakir Pichler a notable (prominent/important/distinguished) person? Wikipedia does not seek to write entries for everyone on Earth. If Shakir Pichler is notable, reliable sources will write about him. There will be journal articles, books, newspaper articles, magazine articles. It is up to you to prove that Shakir Pichler is notable by receiving reliable source coverage. starship.paint (talk / cont) 08:26, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A lot of people seem to think so!

Considering how many Australian bands he has played and recorded/released albums with, released music videos aired on shows like ABC RAGE and interviewed multiple times on radio stations like Triple J & then there is the film industry side - considering how many feature films he has been THE action vehicles coordinator of and in also appearing IN some of these films, he should absolutely have a wiki entry that documents and links with these achievements. Bit surprised this is even in contention tbh.

There are lots of newspaper articles regarding Shakir Pichler in those bands in hard copy that go back to the mid 1980's that are not available online. 157.211.92.236 (talk) 12:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
city of sydney library https://library.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/Montage/Music.aspx?keyword=shakir+pichler&method=0&sort=1003&refinements= Sexbeatrecords (talk) 12:57, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again.

I found 2 pages that speak about Shakir Pichler in The Encyclopedia Of Australian Rock And Pop which is the Oz music Bible for want of a better word.

You are welcome to 'borrow' it for free digitally if you don't have it - the book is mentioned here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclopedia_of_Australian_Rock_and_Pop

You can borrow it here https://openlibrary.org/works/OL2288124W/The_encyclopedia_of_Australian_rock_and_pop

About Shakir Pichler in the kryptonics - page 352

And about Shakir Pichler in The bamboos - page 39

I will keep looking for other links when I have more time. That is a good one. Great book to have too.

Shakir Pichler also mentioned on Whammo encyclopedia in the Bamboos https://web.archive.org/web/20040427212519/http://www.whammo.com.au/encyclopedia.asp?articleid=68

And also in the Kryptonics here https://web.archive.org/web/20040807052007/http://www.whammo.com.au/encyclopedia.asp?articleid=997

These were two VERY important original bands from Perth who toured, released and contributed and pioneered WA's rich musical tapestry of original music nationally and internationally. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 12:52, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

History of Australian music https://historyofaussiemusic.blogspot.com/search?q=kryptonics

Also Nick Sheppard - the guitarist from seminal UK Punk band THE CLASH even mentions Shakir Pichler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Sheppard Sexbeatrecords (talk) 13:02, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sexbeatrecords: - the whammo sources (which, I believe, are the exact same as the Encyclopedia of Australian Rock and Pop by Ian McFarlane) do not provide WP:SIGCOV significant coverage, they just mention Pichler very briefly: Kryptonics ... Shakir Pichler (drums) / Bamboos ... In 1986, Shakir Pichler replaced Tony Chiallella on drums ... 1987 ... Russell Hopkinson (ex-Vicious Circle) had replaced Pichler on drums. Blogspot is not a reliable source. Wikipedia is not a reliable source. starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:08, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. An admin Didier Landner very kindly added more references to the page and voted .Keep

There are also hard copy books that mention Shakir Pichler and also a few of his bands.

One is this one https://repressedrecords.com/products/george-matzkov-way-out-west-the-west-australian-pop-rock-blues-music-scene-1960-1979-book-cd which I no longer have for some reason (probably lent it and forgot) .

Also found Shakir's youtube page has a long radio interview with him live on 6UVS-FM (now RTR FM) From Perth 1986! All about the Bamboos and their massive east coast tour which was great to listen to just now! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5fNppILFGY

I have reached out to a friend who may be able to contact Shakir to see if they can get him to send any links we don't know about that would add to his credits or newspaper clippings etc if that is possible to even use if he has them. Shakir was regularly interviewed in Australian newspapers and radio stations but can't seem to find archives easily to show this.

Either way, he is an important part of Australian music history and in everyones opinion who knew his bands would absolutely agree. Yes Indie music is niche and I understand that your may not have heard of him or his bands but that only makes his contributions to Oz music more important to retain as it wasn't commercial mainstream homogenised music that everyone knows. SO wiki is a great way to learn about the WA and Australian live music scene in general.

I have been a fan of his bands since the 80's and still have all his records on vinyl to this day.

I can't vote but thats my 2c anyway :) 157.211.92.236 (talk) 14:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Found a few more via trove. There's too many links to Shakir pichler to sift through though. This will take time.

howlin moondoggies https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20071126223011/http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/44131/20071122-0001/www.amo.org.au/artistedc4.html

The Bamboos paying with Johnny Thunders. https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20200527150202/http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/182658/20200526-1156/australianrockreview.com/2010/11/07/lifting-the-lid-on-the-rockbrat-treasure-chest-johnny-thunders-1986-sydney-gig-adverts/index9657.html

Shakir Pichler mentioned here [1]

About Shakir Pichlers legendary Rosemount Rumble https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20180318110116/http://rosemounthotel.com.au/event/rosemount-rumble-46/

Shakir photo from 1985 Kryptonics here https://www.forcedexposure.com/Artists/KRYPTONICS.html Sexbeatrecords (talk) 15:27, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Still lacking WP:SIGCOV for the above links. Howlin' MoonDoggies has one (or if you are charitable, two) sentence on Pichler. Bamboos is some sort of an online comment left by Pichler. Rosemount has one sentence on Pichler. Kyptonics has one sentence on Pichler. The photo is just a photo and does not even mention Pichler. starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:22, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Found a digitised newspaper clipping of a big scandal that was reported in quite a few newspapers for some weeks regarding Shakir's scandalous departure from the band 'The Bamboos' mid-tour East coast tour!

From memory, this was big news in the music industry at the time and people still talk about it today. Daily News: Friday October 17th 1986 [2] is one such story. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 22:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Allmusic ref Shakir Pichler in the story about how the Kryptonics formed etc. [3] 157.211.92.236 (talk) 10:01, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delicious Design does offer some coverage on Pichler, but it is essentially this: he quit his band without telling them, and they cancelled their tour. That's all. It's not very much. Allmusic just mentions him thrice. It is not WP:SIGCOV. starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:28, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 12:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I've add references (McFarlane and Kent) to support subject's membership of two notable bands. Hence, passes Wikipedia:Notability (music)#6 per "is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles".Didier Landner (talk) 05:40, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent! 157.211.92.236 (talk) 13:12, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not delete!

I am a high school teacher in Perth and Shakir was invited to be a special guest at our Montessori school last year to talk about life in bands and also all the films he worked on and appeared in.

To this day, a year later, the kids all say it was the best day they have had at school!

He showed parts of all the films he worked on as the action vehicles coordinator as well as the parts he also appeared in and then showed us all the music videos of the bands he has played in and then gave a drum performance and some lessons for the kids!

The students have regularly used his Wikipedia page for reference in various home-work and projects since. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.118.65.6 (talk) 02:08, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Anyone wants to take a look at the sources added to the article since nomination?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:38, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - @Vanderwaalforces: - I reviewed all the links in the article as of this version. References 1, 2, 3, 5 do not provide WP:SIGCOV. Reference 4 is an offline book but based on Google Books, the book is a Chronological listing of popular recordings ... Provides information on how many times the recording appeared in the charts and the highest position it reached. It is unlikely that it provides SIGCOV either. This link in the article provides one instance of somewhat SIGCOV but only says that Pichler quit his band unannounced in Sydney, and his band cancelled their tour. The Who's who of Australian rock book is an offline resource and I cannot confirm if there is any SIGCOV. starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:44, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let's not forget Shakir Pichler's own project "The Howlin' MoonDoggies" who are known world-wide and released THREE full length albums released internationally, 2 music videos played on numerous commercial free to air stations In Australia ABC, Foxtel Channel V etc, Numerous Triple J (Band of the week) and uni radio station interviews with him as well, and his songs being included in FIVE international compilation albums (I have so far only found links to 3 but there are more).

OR his film career which is also extensive.

For example, he was THE action vehicles coordinator in Australian film 'Jasper Jones' where he single-handedly sourced and even drove in many scenes, all the cars from the period (1960's) the film was set in, which is a huge achievement in itself, let alone all the other feature films he worked on in the same capacity, like he did for the film "1%" for example as well.

I finally received a big thank you message via social media contact - He would like to thank everyone who has been helping source links and tidy up the wiki page. He is actually a Web Designer and said he wishes he could edit his own page (rather than the fumbling job I have done) but really does appreciate what you all have done over the years :)

Shakir Pichler is a notable identity with massive contributions in both the Music and Film industry - Is this really still up for debate? Seems a bit strange. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 23:59, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]