Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/MPay

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. There does not seem to be consensus on whether the sources provided are sufficient to push this over the notability line. Improvements could be made to make the article less promotional, but this is not a reason for deletion. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 02:30, 25 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

MPay

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This appears to be a non-notable organization. The article was created by a now-indefinitely-blocked sock of an editor who abused multiple accounts for promotional purposes. See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Aximilli Isthill. (My opinion is that this individual is an undisclosed paid editor.) The references do nothing to support notability of this company: some are non-independent, many include only passing mentions, some appear to be rehashes of press releases. Deli nk (talk) 22:53, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Thailand-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 15:20, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 15:20, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom - David Gerard (talk) 16:33, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Several of the cited sources are to news articles in The Nation, a nationally circulated print newspaper. Google News search reveals plenty of in-depth coverage, easily establishing the subject's notability according to the WP:GNG. --Paul_012 (talk) 21:02, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Paul_012. --Lerdsuwa (talk) 14:39, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect (after Delete) to the parent company Advanced Info Service, where the subject is mentioned. Otherwise, this is strictly a vanity page and SPA / COI is a concern. The subject is not independently notable; for example The Nation describes MPay as a service of AIS. This is republished press release, btw. K.e.coffman (talk) 05:55, 18 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Technology-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman (talk) 05:55, 18 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: These articles probably better demonstrate the subject's notability than those currently cited.[1][2][3] Promotional editing may be a reason to nuke and stubbify the article, but notability is there. I'm not against editorial redirection, as long as the outcome is without prejudice to re-creation. --Paul_012 (talk) 07:09, 18 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as there's barely anything here, there's simply the basic information about what to say about the company, and then the sources, which clearly are not establishing any substance at all; I frankly consider this speedy material. The 1 Keep vote here states that they believe WP:GNG is met, yet this would still be a thin attempt at an article, and we know we must be smarter about articles for companies, especially considering PR and what results from that. SwisterTwister talk 06:26, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Advanced Info Service, which only has a 6-word passing mention, but provides almost no context or background information about the company. Sources exist such as [4], [5], [6], etc. A merge will improve the merge target article for Wikipedia's readers. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:04, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Northamerica1000 (talk · contribs), what are your thoughts about the sources I posted below. Do they provide sufficient coverage to establish notability per Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline? Cunard (talk) 21:30, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. as promotional . Consider a redirect, after the deletion, but not a merge. promotional material should not be merged. DGG ( talk ) 18:30, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Please explain how the article is promotional. Cunard (talk) 21:30, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The article is promotional in that it exists to describe the company's success, using questionable sources. For example, the 2nd para of the lead is based on a news article that shows that the material is pick up from what the company provided to the paper:

"Also, we have 200 online merchants who partner with AIS, as well as several thousand offline shops [under the Rabbit card network] that receive mPay. Last year, we had around 5,000 outlets accepting mPay offline via NFC [near-field-communication technology], and this year we expect to have around 50,000 outlets receiving mPay via NFC," said the MD.

Currently, mPay has some 1.6 million registered members, comprising around 1.2 million end-users and 400,000 mPay agents. About 150,000 end-user members actively use mPay each month, with an average monthly transaction value of Bt30,000.

He said that because mobile wallets were aimed at people's everyday spending of relatively small amounts each time, their main rival was cash.

From the article:

mPay has some 1.6 million registered members, comprising around 1.2 million end-users and 400,000 mPay agents. About 150,000 end-user members actively use mPay each month, with an average monthly transaction value of Bt30,000.^[1]

References

^ Thailand, Nation Multimedia Group Public Company Limited, Nationmultimedia.com. "Cashing in on a cashless society - The Nation". Retrieved 20 September 2016.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

In addition, this appears to be a copyvio as the statement is lifted verbatim. The other sections are "products and services" and "partnerships", also typical of promotional articles. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:10, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman (talk) 18:49, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
1. Leesa-nguansuk, Suchit (2013-08-19). "Opening the electronic wallet". Bangkok Post. Archived from the original on 2016-09-23. Retrieved 2016-09-23.
  The article notes:
  
  Supreecha Limpikanjanakowit, the managing director of Advanced mPay, the payment unit of Advanced Info Service, says cheaper smartphones and improved high-speed wireless broadband have spurred wider adoption of mobile payments.
  Advanced mPay is adding two new flagship services _ mass transit payments and a mobile wallet for shopping _ to increase transaction revenue.
  ...
  Advanced mPay will join with MasterCard next month to roll out the mPay debit card service, letting customers make purchases via MasterCard.
  Since mPay began seven years ago, it has amassed about 700 merchant partners.
  "Partnering with MasterCard will lift the number of outlets in the merchant payment gateway to several thousand in Thailand and 4 million globally," said Mr Supreecha.
  He blames the restriction of mobile payments to the local currency for impeding the progress of mobile payment service in Thailand.
  Advanced mPay is expanding service with Bangkok Mass Transit System Plc this year, letting customers use near field communication (NFC)-enabled smartphones to pay skytrain fares.
2. Pornwasin, Asina (2015-09-17). "New AISmPay accessible to all digital money consumers". The Nation. Archived from the original on 2016-09-23. Retrieved 2016-09-23.
  The article notes:
  
  Launched 11 years ago, the AIS mPAY service has only 1.4 million active users from 2.5 million downloads. It has seen gradual growth but AIS has decided to spur growth by making AIS mPAY available to all mobile users with its easy-to-use multi-language concept.
  ...
  AIS mPAY is available for all mobile users, not just AIS users. It takes just two steps to apply and start the service: download the app and then set up the account with a four-digit PIN.
  Users can store up to Bt5,000 into their mPAY wallet and they can increase the amount of stored money to Bt30,000 when they register their mPAY account and up to Bt100,000 if they show up at mPAY-partner banks.
  AIS mPAY currently has a strong portfolio: eight bank partners, which together have over 50,000 ATM machines to add money into AIS mPay; 200,000 mPAY stations to add money and to receive payments by AIS mPAY; over 60,000 non-banking channels to add money into AIS mPay; and over 200 merchants and bills can pay with AIS mPAY.
3. Setthasiriphaiboon, Piyarat (2006-08-01). "MPay streamlines its customer services". The Nation. Archived from the original on 2016-09-23. Retrieved 2016-09-23.
  The article notes:
  
  Advanced MPay Co Ltd, a subsidiary of Advanced Info Service, the country's largest mobile-phone operator, has signed up a disappointingly low 100,000 active users for its wireless payment service since beginning operations last August.
  Managing director Komsan Buppanimite said one of the problems the company encountered was customers not knowing where or how to "fill up" their mobiles with cash, because in the past, neither Advanced Info Service outlets nor Telewiz shops could assist that transaction.The company has shortened the process in a bid to attract a higher number of users.
4. Leesa-Nguansuk, Suchit (2015-11-18). "Mobile networks team up for e-payment". Bangkok Post. Archived from the original on 2016-09-23. Retrieved 2016-09-23.
  The article notes:
  
  Thailand has 5.5 million e-wallet users. Of the total, 4 million use AIS's mPay service, and the rest use True Move's True Money service
In Thai, "mPay" is "เอ็มเปย์". Here are two Thai sources I found (there are numerous others on Google News):
1. ""mPAY" ข้ามข้อจำกัด เปิดให้ลูกค้าทุกระบบใช้งานได้" ["MPAY" barriers, open to all system applications.]. Manager Daily (in Thai). 2015-09-16. Archived from the original on 2016-09-23. Retrieved 2016-09-23.
  The article notes:
  
  ก้าวต่อไปของบริการเอ็มเปย์ คือ การเปิดให้ลูกค้าทั่วไปสามารถเข้ามาใช้บริการได้ โดยไม่จำเป็นต้องเป็นลูกค้าของเอไอเอส ซึ่งจะช่วยเพิ่มปริมาณลูกค้าที่ใช้งานเพิ่มเป็น 1.5 ล้านราย จากที่ใช้งานในปัจุบัน 1.4 ล้านรายภายในสิ้นปีนี้ และจะเติบโตต่อเนื่องที่ 20-30% ต่อไป
  อย่างไรก็ตาม เอ็มเปย์มียอดการทำธุรกรรมต่อเดือนอยู่ที่ประมาณ 8 พันล้านบาท โดยเป็นการเติมเงินในกลุ่มลูกค้าวันทูคอล และการชำระค่าบริการต่างๆประมาณ 80-90% ส่วนที่เหลือเป็นกลุ่มลูกค้าอีคอมเมิร์ซ และลูกค้าองค์กร
  ...
  โดยปัจจุบัน เอ็มเปย์ เป็นพาร์ตเนอร์ร่วมกับ 8 ธนาคาร คือ ธนาคาร กรุงเทพ ไทยพาณิชย์ กสิกรไทย กรุงไทย กรุงศรีอยุธยา ทหารไทย และยูโอบี ในส่วนของบัตรเครดิต ร่วมกับทางมาสเตอร์การ์ด ทำให้ลูกค้าสามารถเติมเงินได้จากตู้เอทีเอ็มมากกว่า 5 หมื่นจุด หรือใช้วิธีการผูกกับบัญชีก็ได้ รวมถึงการใช้เป็นบัญชีเงินฝากออนไลน์ Beat Banking กับธนาคารซีไอเอ็มบีไทย
  From Google Translate:
  The next step for mPAY is open to the general customers can access the service. Without the need for a client of AIS. This will increase the amount of active customers increased to 1.5 million from 1.4 million in current income by the end of this year. And will continue to grow at 20-30% next.
  However MPay peak transactions per month is about 8 billion baht by the prepaid segment in the Call. And the payment of approximately 80-90%, the rest is an e-commerce customers. And corporate clients
  ...
  Currently MPay a partnership with eight banks, Bangkok Bank of Commerce, Bank of Thailand Thailand Thailand's Ayudhya, TMB Bank, and in most of the credit. Together with MasterCard Customers can make money from ATMs than five thousand points or how to tie the account. Including the use of a bank account online Beat Banking with Bank CIMB Thailand.
2. "เอ็มเปย์ เกตเวย์ รับชำระเงินครบวงจร... อ่านต่อที่" [MPay payment gateway services.]. Daily News (in Thai). 2015-12-15. Archived from the original on 2016-09-23. Retrieved 2016-09-23.
  The article notes:
  
  นายสุปรีชา ลิมปิกาญจนโกวิท กรรมการผู้จัดการ บริษัท แอดวานซ์ เอ็มเปย์ จำกัด เปิดเผยว่า เพื่อตอบสนองกลุ่มผู้ประกอบการรายย่อย และร้านค้าทั้งแบบที่มีหน้าร้านอยู่บนออนไลน์ หรือตามตลาดนัดทั่วไป จึงร่วมกับ ธนาคารกสิกรไทย เปิดบริการ “mPAY Gateway (เอ็มเปย์ เกตเวย์)” เป็นระบบรับชำระเงินที่ครบวงจร เพียงเข้าที่ เอ็มเปย์ เกตเวย์ ที่เดียวก็ได้ครบทุกช่องทาง ทั้งออนไลน์ ออฟไลน์ และ ผ่านบัญชีธนาคารหรือไม่ผ่านบัญชีธนาคาร โดยที่ผู้ขายไม่ต้องไปเชื่อมต่อกับทุกธนาคารเอง... อ่านต่อที่
  ...
  สำหรับ เอ็มเปย์ เกตเวย์ เริ่มต้นเมื่อผู้ขายสมัครใช้บริการ ตั้ง Username และ Password ก็สามารถเริ่มรับชำระได้ทันที ในการรับชำระแต่ละครั้ง ผู้ขายเพียงใส่จำนวนเงินของแต่ละคำสั่งซื้อ ระบบจะสร้างลิงก์ ขึ้นมาเพื่อให้ผู้ขายส่งลิงก์ชำระเงินไปให้ลูกค้าผ่านทางเอสเอ็มเอส, ไลน์, วอทแอพ, เฟซบุ๊ก หรือทางใดก็ได้ เมื่อลูกค้าชำระเงินผ่านช่องทางที่เลือกไว้ เอ็มเปย์ เกตเวย์ จะแจ้งการชำระไปยังผู้ขายตามคำสั่งซื้อเพื่อชำระเงินได้ทันที... อ่านต่อที่
  From Google Translate:
  Mr. Preecha Paralympic Kanjanakul Sankhagowit. Managing Director of Advanced mPAY Co., said in response to a small group of entrepreneurs. Both stores are located on the front line. Or the market in general, in conjunction with the Bank of Thailand Open "mPAY Gateway (MPay Gateway)" is a payment system that is integrated only into the MPay gateway at the same time all channels, both online and offline through. no bank account or bank account. The seller does not have to connect to all the banks themselves.
  ...
  For MPay default gateway on the seller signing the Username and Password, you can start accepting payments immediately. To receive each payment Sellers simply enter the amount of each order. The system creates a link Up to link payments to wholesale customers through SM SM, Male, Whats App, Facebook or anywhere. When customers pay via selected MPay Gateway will pay to the vendor an order for immediate payment.
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow MPay to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
Cunard (talk) 07:32, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I read the article and consider it neutrally written. MPay is based in Thailand, so most of the sources are in Thai. I have listed two Thai sources above but there are many other that can be found in a Google search that a user proficient in Thai can use to expand the article.
Cunard (talk) 07:32, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ and I meant to comment sooner, there's nothing to sensibly or sufficiently non-PR to merge, because it's all still PR for a business that swims in PR; examining the sources listed above found each and every article to contain at least the normal amount of this PR, for example, "For MPay default gateway on the seller signing the Username and Password, you can start accepting payments immediately. To receive each payment Sellers simply enter the amount of each order. The system creates a link Up to link payments to wholesale customers through SM SM, Male, Whats App, Facebook or anywhere. When customers pay via selected MPay Gateway will pay to the vendor an order for immediate payment"; this is essentially a sales pitch and as are the ones above it, to nearly to the top, because it only shows how and what the business is, it's not actual journalistic news and it's certainly not guaranteed to be uninvolved with PR and PR activities (as such, none of that can honestly be called "significant", "independent" or "notable"). Another note is that the fact these "news" are set so far apart in time, it shows they were simply expected and unsuccessful, therefore repeated, attempts at PR. As such, none of this can be accepted if there's still such questionability. Another note is that every single article begins with a sales-pitch-coated sentence, suggesting that is especially not NPOV-news, if all that can be mentioned is PR itself. The first Keep votes are thin and are not substantiating themselves, including acknowledging the PR concerns here. As with other AfDs, there are no benefits of keeping this in the history at any costs, if it's vulnerable to not only repeated advertising but anything of the sort at all. As always, there has been consensus that no amount of likely convincing "sources" can outweigh the damages and overall actions of accepting advertisements, regardless of whatever is shown. SwisterTwister talk 20:32, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have stricken this duplicate vote since you voted above. I cannot agree that the newspapers the Bangkok Post, The Nation, the Manager Daily, and the Daily News are all publishing news articles filled with PR.
Another note is that the fact these "news" are set so far apart in time, it shows they were simply expected and unsuccessful, therefore repeated, attempts at PR. As such, none of this can be accepted if there's still such questionability. – I cannot agree that the fact that the news articles were "set so far apart in time" demonstrates that they are "expected and unsuccessful, therefore repeated, attempts at PR". That logically does not follow. Instead, that the news articles were set so far apart in time demonstrates they were driven by Thai media's sustained interest in this major Thai payment service provider.
Cunard (talk) 21:30, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment -- I posted above as to why the article is promotional. The new sources do not overcome the promotional concerns as they do not rise to the level of CORPDEPTH, and are mostly PR-like. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:12, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

[1] Thailand, Nation Multimedia Group Public Company Limited, Nationmultimedia.com. "Cashing in on a cashless society - The Nation". Retrieved 20 September 2016.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

[1]