Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gasaneri (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. J04n(talk page) 23:51, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Gasaneri

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This page should be deleted because In Quba District doesn't have village Gasaneri Nəcməddin Kəbirli (talk) 14:45, 24 September 2014‎ (UTC)[reply]

Note: I have transcluded this discussion to the log at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2014 September 25. • Gene93k (talk) 14:48, 25 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Azerbaijan-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:49, 25 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep – As the town/village is verified by the references within the article and typically any and all locations with populations are considered notable, keep. ShoesssS ^Talk 17:50, 25 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Changed to Delete (see below)Keep but expand. Gasaneri exists in the claimed location, and this is demonstrated by the reliable sources. As cities and towns are generally presumed to be notable, I do not see a reason to delete this article. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 04:42, 26 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. The article only cites a single source, [1] - which tells us that this is a 'populated place'. A further search (enter 'Gasaneri' in the name field here [2]} tells us it is in Quba, Azerbaijan, and confirms the coordinates given in the article - but again describes it as a 'populated place'. Accordingly, we have no source for the assertion that it is a village. As I understand from Wikipedia:Notability (geographic features)#Geographic regions, areas and places, we only presume confer automatic notability on "Populated, legally-recognized places". We have no evidence that the place is "legally-recognized", and accordingly, we have to assume that it comes under "Populated places without legal recognition" - which are considered "a case-by-case basis in accordance with the GNG". I cannot see how a supposed 'populated place' in Azerbaijan sourced only to a database in the United States can be considered notable without further evidence. Evidence which actually demonstrates that it exists. AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:18, 26 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The geonames sources also lists Quba, the district capitol as a "populated place" [3]. The second source you cited lists every non-capitol city as a "populated place". The term is used to designate between natural features such as mountains and streams, capitols and other populated places, not to designate the official legal designation of those populated places. This is not proof that Gasaneri is not a legally recognized entity. To the contrary, the second source lists Gasaneri as the "approved" name of the populated place. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 17:47, 26 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The U.S. government has no jurisdiction whatsoever in Azerbaijan, and accordingly is in no position to decide what is or isn't legally recognised. In any case, having conducted a search (admittedly limited by my complete lack of any understanding of the Azerbaijani language) I have found no evidence whatsoever that this 'populated place' exists anywhere other than on the U.S. database, and in data clearly derived from it. Lacking evidence that this hypothetical 'populated place' has any legal recognition, and indeed lacking any evidence that it has a meaningful existence, I have to suggest that the article must be deleted, as entirely lacking evidence for notability. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:50, 28 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Checking further, I note that the source cited (the GeoNames database) permits user edits, [4] and accordingly, per WP:USERGENERATED isn't a reliable source. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:11, 28 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note. I have raised the question of the reliability of the source at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#GeoNames. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:44, 28 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If there are any reliable sources that exist for the article subject, they are going to be in the Azerbaijani language. However, the article lacks these sources and the only English sources still standing just notes that a foreign government recognizes that a populated place called Gasaneri exists without giving even the most basic background information about this populated place. As this article would be incredibly easy to rewrite if reliable sources are ever found and due to the policy concerns, I'm changing my vote to a delete. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 01:15, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 02:03, 2 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. What's at the coordinates given in the article is Zərqava, Quba, not (apparently, unless Gasaneri is a older—perhaps Russian?—name for the village) Gasaneri. Open Street Map, being a user-created service, is not, I know, a reliable source, but it does seem to label every damn hamlet in Quba Rayon; and in going over the rayon there, I can't find anything remotely resembling "Gasaneri". In my experience, the CIA's GeoNet database is not a reliable source (frequently inaccurate, outdated, and/or unverifiable elsewhere—see this discussion), so this article fails WP:V unless someone can turn up a better source. Deor (talk) 17:18, 3 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per User:Deor. If we can't even verify what the settlement at that location is called beyond a reasonable doubt, then we shouldn't have an article, per WP:V. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 09:43, 4 October 2014 (UTC).[reply]
Does this help? --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 09:44, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that most of those online databases of place names just copy from each other (or from Wikipedia), so that once a "ghost" place gets into GeoNet or Fallingrain or a similar site, it immediately pops up everywhere on the Web. Many of the semi-automatically created geographic substubs on Wikipedia were created on the basis of such databases, with no other sourcing at all, and the detailed reliability of the databases is open to question, to say the least. In these cases, I am not willing to accept the verifiability of the articles unless some sort of independent sourcing can be found. Some times it can (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Əngəlan for one Azerbaijan example), and sometimes it can't (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tsaxkadzor for another). Deor (talk) 12:04, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: I love AfDs like this because I love to see how we cover localities in more "obscure" places. We've done good work above to try to save a stub created in good faith with very little effort years ago. Short of getting local census information showing every populated place in Quba District (Azerbaijan), we need to delete this. I would guess these templates for every district in the country contain other cases like this.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 12:56, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete: First Hello to everyone. I am new in English wikipedia and I want to change some untruthful information about Azerbaijan. I looked to every Azerbaijanis district and there are a lot of extra places and there are also a lot of other problems such as wrong name, history, population and so on. There was someone wrote that Gasaneri is Russian name but it is not. Toponim is Azerbaijani Turkic but this place is cancelled like a lot of other places. I will find the govermental document about places in Azerbaijan, you can look it and can help me to delete other pages too. Also there is one problem for example some website mentioned this sources and they make forecast I think it affects to your opinion but they are using USA sources like GEONames which is not true always. Good luck.--Nəcməddin Kəbirli (talk) 20:38, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.