User talk:Mnewmanqc

Hi Mnewmanqc, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thanks for your contributions to the coolest online encyclopedia I know of =). I sure hope you stick around; we're always in need of more people to create new articles and improve the ones we already have. You'll probably find it easiest to start with a tutorial of how the wikipedia works, and you can test stuff for yourself in the sandbox. When you're contributing, you'll probably find the manual of style to be helpful, and you'll also want to remember a couple important guidelines. First, write from a neutral point of view, second, be bold in editing pages, and third, use wikiquette. Those are probably the most important ones, and you can take a look at some others at the policies and guidelines page. You might also be interested in how to write a great article and possibly adding some images to your articles.

Be sure to get involved in the community – you can contact me at my talk page if you have any questions, and you can check out the village pump, where lots of wikipedians hang out and discuss things. If you're looking for something to do, check out the community portal. And whenever you ask a question or post something on a talk page, be sure to sign your name by typing ~~~~.

Again, welcome! It's great to have you. Happy editing! --Spangineer (háblame) 20:23, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)

New York English

So you want to remove all information on the facts on the Three Main Accents of New York City? You don't want to do only original research, you want to change past history and what is accepted. You shouldn't use wikipedia as a way to change things and rename stuff. 65.42.87.249 00:06, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

You really showed your ignorance with the Trump and Guliani comment. To speak an New York Irish accent, you do not have to be Irish-American. It's not about ethnicity, it's about the way a person talks. Colin Quinn is Irish, but he does not speak with an New York Irish accent, his accent is more New York Jewish.

You also say you do not think something should be included because of what the majority of New Yorkers believe, but what you want to do is put in what you believe. Why is what you, one person, not from New York, believe more important than what has been accepted by New Yorkers in New York City? 65.42.87.249 00:14, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

I didn't spell street wrong. I put that people pronounce street as shtreet sometimes. TeckWiz 02:29, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

"House" vowel

I made my best guess from the phonetic pronunciation that had been there originally. The trouble is that growing up in Central NJ I never actually heard a Piney accent, so I had no first-hand memory of it to go on. But thank you. I value your professional opinion.

I have recently developed a more focused interest in your field -- sociolinguistics in general, not necessarily your specific area of interest. Are there any good introductory books you can recommend to a layman? TCC (talk) (contribs) 21:08, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I, like, agree

at least partially. (P.S. My initial remark was neither directed to you, nor your post, in case you didn't notice.) dr.ef.tymac 15:26, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

New York Dialect

Hey, what's a good way to learn the accent of New York? I can't exactly afford to go there for a few yrs but I haven't found too much in Australia..there are a few tapes here and there but it doesn't feel serious enough..i wanna learn to tɔɪk like them.. and I am an actor and many plays do use American accents with a lot of New Yorkese ones..Domsta333 12:41, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Dialects guidelines

It's an awful lot of work to start and maintain a new WikiProject, so I've decided to raise the issue at WikiProject Languages, which deals with a lot of the same issues. See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Languages#Dialects guidelines for my proposal. Thanks.--Pharos 04:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Baltimore

You might be interested in the discussion at the bottom of Talk:Baltimorese. AJD 04:09, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

New Jersey English Talk Page

Please don't take what I'm about to say as a personal attack; I'm only observing what I saw. You may be a great linguist, but you're not the best mediator. Here's a few things that you said: "Mrblondnyc, can we just let Thegryseone have the last word (before me) and just drop this as fruitless. Thegryseone, can we have your silence on this issue and can you consider this over without necessarily taking Mrblondnyc's silence as aquiesence?" Now it's true that you may be trying to hide your favoritism, but clearly you do have some favoritism towards Mrblondnyc. Let's look at the pronouns you used. In the first sentence you wrote, "Mrblondnyc, can we". Already, you're trying to show Mrblondnyc that you're on his side, while at the same time excluding me, by using the first person plural pronoun we. You're also trying to suggest that I'm the immature one, by saying, "can we just let Thegryseone have the last word (before me) and just drop this as fruitless." You're trying to put yourself and Mrblondnyc in the "mature adult" group and me in the "immature" group. You forget that Mrblondnyc has been involved in this "drama" as much as I have (in fact, he's the one who started it in the first place); he's continued to try to have the last word after everything I've written. In the second sentence, you use we again; however, this time rather than using it to mean you and I, you use it once again to mean you and Mrblondnyc. You wrote, "Thegryseone, can we have your silence". Clearly, you were referring to you and someone else, in this case Mrblondnyc, wanting my silence. Once again, you are implying that I'm the troublemaker, and that you are all for Mrblondnyc. In the future, if you're going to be a mediator, please don't show favoritism in any form as you did here, and in doing so make one party feel excluded. Once again, this is not a personal attack; I have nothing against you as an editor. It's fine with me if you don't respond, but I had to state my case. Thanks. Thegryseone (talk) 02:15, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh yeah, and I do take Mrblondnyc's silence as aquiesence. There's no way a mediator can prevent an editor from taking another editor's silence as aquiesense, so I don't understand why you bothered to write that. That's a bit silly. Thegryseone (talk) 02:30, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

My goal was to end the back and forth, mediate if you want to call it that. In any case, I had to say "let him have the last word" because at that moment that you had made the last comment. If he had, then I would have had to ask you to let him have the last word. You're right in a way, I was trying to take his point of view, to decide which would be his perspective, and obviously from his perspective, you were in the wrong. As for my position, let me say this. You have made a really great contribution to both NY and NJ pages, really cleaned them up and improved them. However, in this dispute, you have been thin skinned, too defensive, and to quick to attack. I have absolutely no idea who you are, but I suspect you are a lot younger than me, so I'm gonna play that card: Do you want to get all upset every time you get a slight in your life? It's just a wikipedia page. There are all kinds of haters out there. None of it matters. I'll repeat this on your page, but if you don't want it there, just erase it afterwards. mnewmanqc (talk) 02:40, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

New York City English

I was just trying to make the point that if someone grows up in the New York City dialect area, then I think we have to call his/her accent a NYC accent, no matter what it actually sounds like. Everyone in New York City has an accent and it always will be that way as long as people still live there (people who aren't mute, that is). The New York City accent can never disappear unless New York City disappears. Some people might say that some upper class New Yorkers speak "General American", but I don't believe in the existence of "General American", so that's impossible. Thegryseone (talk) 04:33, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

The Bronx

Happy to award you the Barnstar. It's so often we take folks for granted.

You might want to look at the Huuuuge Talk:Bronx debate about whether the article should be titled The Bronx or Bronx. Never has so much verbiage been spilled about 3 little letters. Mostly civilly, though.Bellagio99 (talk) 00:24, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

New Jersey English

Hey, I'd like to move New Jersey English to English dialects of New Jersey given that there is no such thing as a New Jersey dialect as such. Are you opposed or do you have a different suggestion? You can respond there, but I'll watch bothe here and there. Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 01:33, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

It occurs to me New Jersey English dialects will also work. μηδείς (talk) 01:35, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

also ok with me as I said on the talk page.

I have no problem with that. On the contrary, I've never liked the NJ English title. However, I imagine some opposition from others. mnewmanqc (talk) 06:32, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

A proposito

Tu interes en el espanol de Nueva York me fascina. Lo aprendi yo trabajando como cocinero con inmigrantes ilegales y en las calles de Mott Haven y University Heights. Que historias podria contarte. μηδείς (talk) 16:53, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

New York Dialect

Thanks for headsup. Perhaps I'm too busy getting deadlined work done, but I didnt/dont see it as an edit war, but just routine reversion. Will be more attentive in the future.

Thanks,MNe for doing this. Can you revert back to dialect? I don't know how to. Bellagio99 (talk) 17:19, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

I can, but I'm waiting for a discussion to happen or not. Personally, I'd rather have NYC English, but we had that discussion earlier, and I got no support for it. mnewmanqc (talk) 00:24, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Got your message. I understand and am with you. Bellagio99 (talk) 19:59, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know how to handle Requests to Move. Your solution seems a good possibility. Bellagio99 (talk) 12:53, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

New York accent

But regardless of what the word "accent" literally means, isn't New York City English still most popularly and historically referred to as a "New York accent"? The latter phrase gets nearly 3000 more hits on Google Scholar, just as a quick example. According to Wikipedia: Article titles#Use commonly recognizable names, for an article title, "Wikipedia prefers the name that is most commonly used." Wolfdog (talk) 02:55, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Good point. But what I'd say is that the way you phrased it, it came out as a synonym, which it isn't in fact, however popular the term is. I think it would be helpful to say the point as you made it here. The only problem is that the editing specifications say "no original research." So I'm not sure how you can get your point in. Of course "New York Accent" redirects to this article in any case. mnewmanqc (talk) 03:03, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Yeah. I'm now pondering adding the phrase in the first sentence as "--,popularly labeled the New York accent,--" or under "Linguistic features" putting something about the phonology being considered "a New York accent." But this all seems too forced, I would think. Wolfdog (talk) 03:42, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

US English Dialect Page Titles (revived?)

You might have an interest in contributing to this discussion: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Languages#US English Dialect Page Titles (revived?). Wolfdog (talk) 14:52, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

New York Latino English

Hey, noticing that you have an interest in New York Latino English, I was wondering if any studies have been done about that dialect outside of the city itself. I've seen one source that calls it "East Coast Latino" English/dialect, and I'm wondering if that is becoming a more accurate name. I've worked a lot in the Hartford metropolitan area and have heard a very noticeable Hispanic dialect (which to me, sounds equivalent to NYLE) in this region, but it's hard for me to find academic sources that talk about a "Hartford Latino English" or any similar Latino ethnolect outside of NYC; in other words, I haven't found any source that seems to designate the regional boundaries of NYLE. However, it seems to be an urban/ethnic phenomenon beyond just NYC (and maybe even beyond Greater NYC). Do you have any info (or even thoughts) on this? Wolfdog (talk) 18:27, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

@Wolfdog: I'm not aware of any studies beyond NYC and Miami. Describing dialect boundaries is hard particularly for non-White varieties, but there are definitely distinctly NYCE features in NYLE, such as raised THOUGHT. I wouldn't want to say it's the same as what is spoken outside the NY metro area. mnewmanqc (talk) 19:17, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Yeah I agree with all of what you're saying. However, I wonder if this Hartford ethnolect is branching off from speakers originally of New York City/Hispanic origin, since I hear an obvious relationship there (clear "L" sounds, a mix of AAVE and NYCE grammar and phonological features like non-rhoticity, etc.). But your hesitance to call it "the same" is totally understandable but also even more interesting, because it suggests that urban East Coast areas outside of NYC, like Hartford, may be developing their own varieties. (I was just wondering if you knew of any connections of NYLE to Hartford. For example, I've read about a Latino variety's emergence in North Carolina here.) Wolfdog (talk) 16:26, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

@Wolfdog: Likely, but we don't know. Until someone does some research on it, and I don't think anyone has. Looking for a dissertation topic or at least an article?  ;) mnewmanqc (talk) 19:17, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Haha. Right now I more enjoy reading the research than doing it. Wolfdog (talk) 20:53, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

@Wolfdog: You read [[1]] yet? I heard it's highly entertaining if a bit overpriced. mnewmanqc (talk) 20:58, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Hmmm... no, I haven't. Wolfdog (talk) 16:20, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

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PALMS of New York

There's some confusion at Talk:New York City English article about the status of the father-bother merger in New York. Can you help clarify? AJD (talk) 03:11, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

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Back vowel chain shift on New York English

Hello, sir. Currently, on the New York English page, it speaks of a back chain vowel shift. As I couldn't find this anywhere else on the web, I doubt it's factual, but there was a debate on that talk page. So, only for my own sake, I wish for some clarity. Thank you. 74.102.216.186 (talk) 02:04, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

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Reliability

Hello. I beg your pardon, sir. On the page New York City English, there seems to be a source used whose reliability I question. Given that you have worked with this subject longer than I have, you probably would know better than me. The source is listed as follows:

• Gordon, Matthew (2004) "New York, Philadelphia and other Northern Cities" in Kortmann, Bernd & Schneider, Edgar W. (Eds.) A Handbook of Varieties of English: Volume 1: Phonology Walter de Gruyter ISBN 3-11-017532-0

Do you happen to know if this source is reliable? I'm asking because I have no idea. Thank you.LakeKayak (talk) 16:09, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Yes, Matt Gordon is a well respected sociolinguist. He's not actually an expert in NYCE (as I'm sure he'd be the first to tell you), but he's definitely an expert in the field in general. mnewmanqc (talk) 16:56, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, sir.LakeKayak (talk) 20:07, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

New York City English: Back vowel chain shift

I beg your pardon, sir. I have one question about the back vowel chain shift in New York. The page New York City English says as follows:

"The result of the shift is that cart in New York sounds similar to cot/caught in Boston or caught in General American, with its round-lipped vowel."

Is this accurate? To my knowledge, the resultant vowel in "cart" is much lower. Either way, I am confused. So, any insight would be helpful. Thank you.LakeKayak (talk) 13:08, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

I agree. There's a difference between car and 'cart I think it's in my book somewhere, but maybe not. Can't remember. However, it is here: [2]. Feel free to make the change. I prefer to have someone else cite my work rather than me. And please what's it with the sirs. We're all editors in this role. mnewmanqc (talk) 13:43, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

It seems you report a higher F1 value for the /ɑɹ/ vowel, as a rough approximation 700 Hertz. According to the page Formant is approximate F1 value of /ɔ/ is 500 Hertz. So, therefore, according to my interpretation of your works, which may not be accurate, the New York /ɑɹ/ is quite differently from the General American /ɔ/. That helps. Thank you.LakeKayak (talk) 18:15, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

There is some overlap on a vowel chart, but the /r/ coloring, mainly involving a lowering of F3, means that perceptually, there is no overlap. It doesn't sound like [ɔɹ], more like [ʌɹ]. mnewmanqc (talk) 09:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

I beg your pardon. I fail to understand you. Could you please elaborate? Thank you.LakeKayak (talk) 17:40, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

The first two formant values are related to actual physical properties associated with moving the tongue up and down and back and forth, but they're only part of what goes into the full acoustics of the sound and the way that acoustics is processed. The r-coloring is associated with the lowering of F3, but I don't know any more than that. mnewmanqc (talk) 17:46, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Use of labiodental approximant in New York City English

On the page, Pronunciation of English ⟨r⟩, it says that this consonant [ʋ] is sometimes used as an allophone for ɹ. Is this accurate? You probably would know better than I would, on this one. Thank you.LakeKayak (talk) 17:44, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

I have no data on that. Sorry. mnewmanqc (talk) 18:20, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

That's all right. Thank you for your input, anyway.LakeKayak (talk) 18:53, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Lexical sets

I beg your pardon. I saw your edit on the page Lexical set. It didn't dawn on me initially, but in the end, I only feel it may be misleading to say that the TRAP set does not have the tensed /æ/ in split dialects of American English. The short-a split sometimes tenses words that are not in the RP BATH class. However, at the same time, I have respect for you as an editor. So if you object, by all means, I wish to hear your point of view. Thank you.LakeKayak (talk) 17:38, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

right, but the sets don't necessarily have all the same words in each dialect. Words that are tense are by definition BATH words in the dialect that has them mnewmanqc (talk) 17:40, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

I may still find it a little misleading, but I can see your side. Either content will do for the page.LakeKayak (talk) 17:49, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

It's just the way lexical sets work; the set for Australia and southern UK are different too.

In any case, I originally reverted your edit. I think I probably should reinstate your changes. Thank you for your help.LakeKayak (talk) 20:58, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Please do.

Done.LakeKayak (talk) 21:03, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

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