User talk:Cg2p0B0u8m/Archive 3

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Fatinitza

Thanks for the nicely-researched addition! Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 22:06, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Monteux

I looked at this, and don't think I could get a particularly useful photo out of it. There's little facial detail. 202.175.185.138 (talk) 09:25, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

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Precious

operas and performers
Thank you for quality articles on less known operas and their performers, including Pierre Monteux, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:08, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

A year ago, you were the 240th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, repeated in br'erly style, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:50, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks very much - I hope someone else will help fill in the offenbachian gaps; I shouldn't do them all! Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 22:38, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Good to see Monteux on the Main page today! I am working on Schütz gaps. - Did you know that I have a personal relation to the infamous ballet? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:24, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

I am not sure who proposed it but thank you if you did. 7,000 people looked at the article. I hope they missed the dreadful vandalism. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 21:52, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Now it's two years ago, and time to thank for Massenet! Magnificat! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:36, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

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Klemperer and Offenbach

There is a 1920s recording, widely available in digital transfer, of Klemperer conducting the (Haensch?) overture to La belle Hélène. Klemperer was very much the Grand Old Man when I went to his concerts forty-something years ago, but clearly as a younger man he enjoyed kicking his heels up to Offenbach's tunes. And there's later Klemperer Offenbach here. Tim riley (talk) 21:56, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

• Thank you - I may risk it if something crosses my path! Though there was that successful 'German' Bluebeard by Felsenstein, so maybe it is possible... Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 22:56, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Gong

		The Special Barnstar
		For your indefatigable and scholarly contributions to articles on Offenbach I award you this long overdue medal. We are lucky to have you as a fellow Wikipedia editor! Tim riley (talk) 21:37, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind words and the gong; I assume it is time for dinner. I hope my next offering will not shatter your illusions. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 18:05, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

January 2014

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February 2014

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• * Closing chorus: ''Poor brave Hungarian people'' (''Szegény derék magyar nép'' (Háry, Őrzse)

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• SU 3984-2 (recorded at Rudolfinium, Prague, 29 Sept - 1 Oct 1981, pub. 1983, reissued 2010) ).

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Verdi's Falstaff

I wonder if I can interest you in the peer review of Verdi's wonderful work? We hope to get the article to FA level, and we would like input from any opera lovers who might be interested. Quite understand if you're too busy, naturally, but your comments would be most welcome. Best wishes. Tim riley (talk) 15:05, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Contact pls

Hello mate;

pls contact me via

ereque@yahoo.com

concerning the broadcast of Sallinens Kunningas Lear.

Thank you :) and best regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nolispy (talk • contribs) 19:40, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

April 2014

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• time the director of the [[Théâtre de l'Athénée]].<ref>Opéra-Comique Dossier Pédagogique: ALI-BABA (Anne Le Nabour (2013)</ref>

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• in using strong language.<ref>Quoted in the [[Opéra-Comique]] Dossier Pédagogique: ALI-BABA (Anne Le Nabour (2013)</ref>

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May 2014

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Massenet

I have scratched about a bit and added some pertinent comments about Massenet's style and technique. There is still a lot more Life than Works in the article, but I am going to be bold and put it up for PR. I hope you will look in. Meanwhile, thank you for tweaking my clumsy French spellings etc! Tim riley talk 17:22, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Massenet FAC

As you have contributed so much invaluable input during PR, can I invite you to be co-nominator of the article when I put it up for FAC very soon? If you prefer to remain neutral so as to comment ad lib at FAC that would be fine, of course, but in truth I think you ought to have a share of the gold star, if the article is promoted. Pray ponder. Tim riley talk 20:54, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

• That's fine, although of course you have done 99% of the work on him - but you can put me there, and I will try to answer any questions. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 20:59, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
  • I'm so pleased! On to FAC! Tim riley talk 21:13, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Rereading the Reputation section I now fear it is inappropriately wholly British in its sources. Do you think it reflects opinion in France in the first half of the 20th century? If you have any French sources to draw on I think this section would benefit from them. We'll cope if not, but it would be good to temper the excessively British sourcing, don't you think? Tim riley talk 20:59, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in replying. Yes I will gladly look but it may be the end of the week. But I think I can find a few options. The issue may partly be that Massenet did not fade from view in France and Belgium as much as elsewhere. When originally checking the article, looking at the list of conductors, out of curiosity I flicked through the appendix of the Cluytens book by Baeck (which gives every concert and opera performance he conducted). I was amazed at the number of Massenet operas and performances he conducted in the French and Belgian provinces from the 1920s to the 1950s. Anyway I will look for non British sources.Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 22:07, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Héritier de Meyerbeer, Berlioz et Gounod, orphelin de Bizet, pendant plus de trente ans, Massenet cultivait seul l’héritage de l’opéra français, grâce à un métier parmi les plus accomplis de son temps, ainsi que des qualités que la postérité tarda quelque peu à lui reconnaître: l'art de traduire la langue française en phrases musicales souples qui plantent le personnage et s'imposent immédiatement à la mémoire (il mémorisait ses livrets avant de les mettre en musique); une rare virtuosité orchestrale, alliant l’éclat à la limpidité; un sens infaillible de l'effet théâtral et de la durée. Alliées à sa science harmonique sophistiquée et à son habileté à manier l’héritage wagnérien, ces vertus lui permirent d'exercer une influence indéniable sur l’école « vériste » italienne, de raffiner son langage et de remporter des succès jusqu'aux dernières années ou son invention trahissait des signes de faiblesses. Kaminski, Piotr. Mille et Un Opéras. Fayard, 2003, p864.

http://www.jules-massenet.fr/ L’Association Massenet Internationale

Grand Officier dans l’ordre de la Légion d’Honneur in 1899 (pdf on Association site)

Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 21:40, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Though the article has just been promoted to FA (more on which below), I don't think anybody will object to our adding a sentence on Massenet's current standing in France. Would this do, do you think: "In France, Massenet's 20th-century eclipse was less complete than elsewhere, but his oeuvre has been revalued in recent years. In 2003 Piotr Kaminsky wrote in Mille et Un Opéras of Massenet's skill in translating French text into flexible melodic phrases, his exceptional orchestral virtuosity, combining sparkle and clarity, and his unerring theatrical instinct." [then add cite to Kaminsky, p. 864, and add the book to the Sources, which I'll attend to]. Please consider.

It would be nice to mention that there is a International Massenet Association, but I can't find on its website the date of its foundation, and I don't think we can mention the Association without saying when it was founded.

The fact of his elevation to Grand Officier is well documented, and I thought of mentioning it. Would it have been noteworthy at the time to the generality of the French public, do you think? Tim riley talk 09:21, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for you reply here and apologies again for my disorganization and tardiness. In fact it was more difficult than I thought to find something useful, and I was still looking for a good quote to include, but I think what you have put above is fine. - According to an advert on p138 of the Panurge/Le Cid Avant-Scene book (1994), the Association was founded in 1990 [L’Avant-Scène Opéra 161 – Panurge ~ Le Cid. L’Avant-Scène Opéra, Paris 1994]. - I think most people ended up with some class of Légion d’Honneur, so not really essential (I did not notice that he has the category). I will try now to improve some of the related articles. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 11:38, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

(another possible loose end) Next time I am at the Music Library I may look for more on the mysterious 1905 Conservatoire directorship business. Reading some books at home, I wondered if it was connected to the Ravel scandal (him not winning the Prix de Rome) Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 11:46, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Para added. I've also added a link to the Association Internationale. As to the 1905 scandal there's no mystery per se. It was indeed to do with the denial of the Prix de Rome to Ravel. One of the faculty, Charles Lenepveu (whose red-link I must remedy), rigged the jury to favour his own pupils, and when this came to light there was a terrific public row. Dubois brought forward his planned retirement from the directorship. Lenepveu, a thoroughly Establishment figure, had been the favourite to succeed him, but his chances evaporated when his part in the stitch-up came out. The government decided it wanted a root and branch reform – hence the promotion of Fauré who had never been a Conservatoire insider, and was soon dubbed "Robespierre" by the diehard conservatives among the faculty. The only matter of doubt in the whole affair is whether the government even considered offering Massenet the succession to Dubois, and as far as I can see there is not a scrap of evidence – other than Massenet's own assertion – that it did. He would not have delivered the reforms the government saw were necessary. The rather sad envoi is that 17 years later Fauré was succeeded by Henri Rabaud who reversed Fauré's forward-looking policies and turned back to rigid conservatism. Massenet would have smiled, I think, had he lived to see that! – Tim riley talk 12:45, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your interesting explanation. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 16:59, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

I've run up a short article on Lenepveu. I see that the French WP one doesn't mention l'affaire Ravel, and it crosses my mind that you might possibly like to transplant the facts and refs from the English to the French article, if you have time and disposition. Tim riley talk 21:17, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Massenet promoted

Very pleased to see that the article has been promoted to FA. I should like to thank you for your important input, and for your encouragement and advice. I really don't think I could have got the page to FA standard on my own, and I am most grateful to you, and in addition to your half of the gold FA star I award you...

		L'etoile de grange de Massenet
		For your input, advice and encouragement as co-nominator for FA I award you this special barnstar. – Tim riley talk 08:37, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

... and by all means edit it if my attempt at translation makes you wince. Tim riley talk 08:37, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 11:42, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Nuance of translation

May I yet again impose on your kindness to steer me in the right linguistic direction? The critic Claude Rostand said of Francis Poulenc, "y a en lui du moine et du voyou". The monk is not a difficulty even with my poor French, but I have seen "voyou" translated variously in books on Poulenc as "rascal", "rogue", "ragamuffin", "bounder", "bad boy", "street-urchin", "guttersnipe", and "hooligan". I'd be very grateful to know how, if you were rendering the phrase into English, you would translate it. Best wishes, Tim riley talk 20:15, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Apologies for the silence, I was on holiday. I looked for an 'official' translation in an English source, but can only find p166 of Graham Johnson's Hyperion notes on the songs has "The critic who described Poulenc as both 'moine et voyou', monk and ragamuffin...". I think this sounds a bit too nice or childlike(?). Collins-Robert offers 'lout' which is seedier. Do we know the full context of Rostand's comments, that might help. My Larousse has (1) enfant mal élevé (which I suppose is the ragamuffin) and (2)individu de moeurs crapuleuse. Difficult! Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 20:24, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

FA congratulations

Just a quick note to congratulate you on the promotion of Jules Massenet to FA status recently. If you would like to see this (or any other FA) appear as "Today's featured article" soon (either on a particular date or on any available date), please nominate it at the requests page. If you'd like to see an FA appear on a particular date in the next year or so, please add it to the "pending" list. In the absence of a request, the article may end up being picked at any time (although with about 1,302 articles waiting their turn at present, there's no telling how long – or short! – the wait might be). If you'd got any TFA-related questions or problems, please let me know. Bencherlite^Talk 13:45, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 10

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Francis Poulenc

Greetings! If it's of any interest, and you have time, I have Poulenc up for peer review, and any comments you cared to make would be gladly received. Tim riley talk 12:13, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks, it is of much interest, and I will have time over the next week. I hope to learn something new and if I spot anything while I read I will add it to the peer review. (thank you also for popping into the Chabrier article and tidying a little. Perhaps I should try to add more referenced material to that.) Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 21:31, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

October 2014

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Merge discussion for Émile Isola

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Camille Saint-Saëns

Can I interest you in a peer review of Camille Saint-Saëns? I'm hoping to get the old boy up to FA standard, and comments at PR will be greatly appreciated, if you have time and inclination. – Tim riley talk 16:57, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for asking me, I hope you don't mind if I decline this one, but I am happy to do it again in future. I hope you find others who are able to undertake this. Best regards. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 20:44, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

That's absolutely fine, of course. I look forward to another occasion. (Perhaps Ravel, on whom I'm working, very slowly, at the moment?) Best wishes, Tim riley talk 15:34, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Kullervo (Sallinen)

— Coffee // have a cup // beans // 12:01, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Maurice Ravel at FAC

If you have time and inclination to look in, your thoughts would be greatly valued. Tim riley talk 17:29, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Falstaff

I wonder if I can interest you in the FAC for Verdi's Falstaff? I had been working on the article on and off in collaboration with Viva-Verdi (John Webber), who, I am so very sorry to say, died in March. This FAC is by way of being my personal tribute to him, and any suggestions for polishing it further will be particularly gladly received. You were among the peer reviewers, and I hope you will be able to help again at FAC. – Tim riley talk 12:07, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I will be happy to look at this article in the coming week and send any comments. Thank you for asking. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 18:36, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

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Louis Noguera

I do not intend to write an article on Louis Noguera, but if you would like a copy of the entry in Kutsch & Riemens, e-mail me, and I will send a copy to you (or any other singer you might be interested in). --Robert.Allen (talk) 23:12, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

I sent you two e-mails today. --Robert.Allen (talk) 10:43, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

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Women in Music

Women in Music
	10 to 31 January 2016 Please join us in the worldwide virtual edit-a-thon hosted by Women in Red.

--Rosiestep (talk) 04:36, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

I have put one together of this interesting British opera singer. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 23:37, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

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Hi

What happened to the Jason Lai conductor article? Where has it gone? In ictu oculi (talk) 06:43, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Its back! Albeit with some fudgery around the disambiguation. Not sure what the person who changed it originally was trying to do. Only in death does duty end (talk) 16:47, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Charles Dupeuty

Hi Cg2p0B0u8m, and thanks for reverting what needed to be reverted in this article. The reason why I made this mistake is that the first time I came accross a French page where "couplet" was used I decided to translate it with "distic" (from fr:Distique (littérature)) which was a wild guess of course but one that seemed plausible to me. 2 days later, someone came and replaced "distics" with distincts. Hmmmm... that looked bizarre to me but since I'm a non native English speaker I thought there was something I was totally unaware of and followed suit afterwards. And now there are several dozens articles where I've left "distincts" behind...

In the same range of idea, in an article where I used the <niwiki>1957</nowiki> model a dozen times or so, someone came the day after and suppressed the model only to leave 1957 (say). But this time I knew the model existed (as on the fr wiki) and I had seen it used already several time here so I keep on with this form 1957 in television|1957//1957 in literature|1957//1957 in music ...

Well, I have a strong stock of hundreds articles of 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th-century French dramatists and playwrights to translate so the mistake won't be repeated from now on. And when I see again one of the ancient faulty pages that I wrote, I'll make the correction.

Again, thanks for taking the time to undo my mistakes and for the lesson provided. Yours, LouisAlain (talk) 22:14, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

• No problem. I think the couplets is best left as it is as I am not aware of an exact English equivalent ('ballad opera' suggests that the songs already exist). Your 2nd para is a bit technical for me, but I think I know what it is about! Thanks for all your work on these French articles, I will try to look at more in the coming weeks. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 22:24, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Fleur-de-lys

See this. and this. See also dead link] this, which credits Farnie as translator. Selina Dolaro starred in it with Emily Soldene in 1874. See: http://books.google.com/books?id=eJ0JAQAAMAAJ&pg=PR19&dq=H.+B.+Farnie&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Yq7AUuqzBKuM7Aa8ioHoBA&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=H.%20B.%20Farnie&f=false -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:20, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Note that Farnie's English adaptations of French opera bouffes were usually in 2 acts, whereas the French pieces were generally in 3 acts. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:35, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Ah, here is full info: http://books.google.com/books?id=1UM5AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA524&lpg=PA524&dq=Farnie+%22Fleur-de-lys%22+adams+dictionary+drama&source=bl&ots=mQpG_AbdTz&sig=K-0erldaLfg_azilaHuuqGtNOwY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=UQ1cU_WdIKm3sATl74DYDA&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Farnie%20%22Fleur-de-lys%22%20adams%20dictionary%20drama&f=false -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:54, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Platée

Hi, I have edited some further changements at the article Platée: I wonder whether you could be so kind as to check them against your sources. What about removing the note 11, which might seem, by now, superfluous? Cheers.--Jeanambr (talk) 16:33, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

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Sorry

I misunderstood your edit summary, sorry, was going to revert myself but you were faster. I should have been warned by Marcel Cordes, not here ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:39, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Another French composer destined for FAC

I have André Messager up for peer review. Though he is rather a neglected figure now, as the last great composer of opéra-comique and opérette, he is rather close to my heart in a quiet sort of way. If you are moved to look in and give me your comments it will be esteemed a favour. Tim riley talk 17:45, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

• Thank you for asking me and thank you for all the work you put in on writing all your articles. I am not sure what the deadline is going to be, but will try to put some thought to it in the next days. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 14:21, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
  • for a relatively minor musician, he surprisingly has at least four books dedicated to him, the Wagstaff and these in French, but I can't see them mentioned:
• https://www.worldcat.org/title/andre-messager/oclc/469849153 André Messager. Ed. Duteutre B. Klincksieck, 2003.
• https://www.worldcat.org/title/andre-messager-musicien-de-theatre/oclc/844376 Augé-Laribé M. Messager: La vie, L’Oeuvre, Discographie. La Colombe, Paris, 1951.
• http://0-www.worldcat.org.novacat.nova.edu/title/andre-messager-mon-maitre-mon-ami/oclc/12101111 Février, Henry. André Messager : mon maître, mon ami. Paris, Amiot-Dumont, « Jeunesse de la musique », 1948.

Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 14:22, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Indeed, and I have got hold of these at the British Library and taken some very good stuff from them. Where I have quoted them I have reproduced the original French in footnotes, so that proper Francophones can be satisfied I've translated reasonably accurately. If you do look in, by all means amend my translations if you think they need it. There's no deadline for the peer review, and as I should particularly value your input on all aspects of the article I'll be in no rush to close the review. Tim riley talk 19:43, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

OK, I printed it off on last Thursday (I know it has changed since then) and have started looking, and will add my comments over the Easter break. One or two things have crossed my mind Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 18:46, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Excellent. Apart from your general comments, which I look forward to, there are two chunks of prose translated by me from the French, on which I'd particularly value your approval or amendment:

• "Je crois bien qu’aucun musicien n’a jamais aimé la musique autant que l’aima André Messager. En tout cas, il est impossible d’être plus curieux de musique qu’il ne le fut, et jusqu’à la fin de sa vie." which I have rendered as "I doubt if any musician has ever loved music as much as André Messager did. But it would be impossible to have wider musical interests than he did. Right up to the end of his life, too." If one was being strict it could be: "I do believe that no musician has ever loved music as much as André Messager did. In any case, it would be impossible to have a greater musical curiosity than he did, up to the end of his life, too."
• "Il n'y a pas beaucoup d'exemples, dans l'histoire de la musique, d'un artiste d'une culture aussi complète, d'une science aussi approfondie, qui consente à appliquer ses qualités à des formes réputées, on ne sait pourquoi, secondaires." and my attempt: "There are not many examples in the history of music of an artist of such complete culture, of such profound knowledge, who consents to apply his qualities to forms regarded, nobody knows why, as secondary" or "There are not many examples in the history of music of an artist with such a complete education, of such profound knowledge, who consents to apply his gifts to forms regarded, nobody knows why, as secondary"

More elegant translations gladly received. And all other suggestions, too, of course. Tim riley talk 19:11, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you: I have gratefully adopted them. Tim riley talk 21:15, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

And M. Messager is indeed now a Featured Article Candidate. After your wonderful help at PR I now have the effrontery to invite you to look in at FAC, if you are so inclined, and give us any comments you like. Very best wishes, Tim riley talk 15:35, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, sorry for the delayed reaction. I will try to make time to look but I doubt I will spot anything - but as mentioned if I find any references for the reputation and performance of his stage works in the second half of the 20th century, which is an element lacking, I will put it somewhere for you to consider. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 20:09, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Apology for delay is absolutely not needed! We are enormously indebted to you for your help so far, and anything further will be a bonus. Amitiés, Tim riley talk 20:28, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Claude Debussy

Mon général, I have Debussy up for peer review. If you would be kind enough to look in and comment it would be esteemed a favour. Best wishes, as ever, Tim riley talk 22:11, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

• I was away for a while - thank you for asking me, I will look later in the week, from Wednesday, and comment as quickly as I can. Best regards. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 20:47, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Chabrier

I've been doing some work on his article. I don't envisage taking it to GA or FAC, but if you have time and inclination to look in again you might polish my efforts further. Tim riley talk 17:29, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

• Wow, that is magnificent! Thank you so much. I will look properly in the next days. Strangely.... while away just now I did some more on an article I have been trying to create on Chabrier's Songs (using as template some of your Fauré atricles...). Kind regards.Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 21:39, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
  • What a nice message to get! Thank you! I'm greatly looking forward to your article on the songs. (I'm smiling from listening to Hugues Cuénod's recording of "Les Cigales" just now.) Of course, please improve and amend my short section on the songs at your leisure, if so inclined, and anything else, of course. En passant, I've run up a quick article on Chabrier's vicar on earth, which would also benefit from your intention if possible. Best wishes, Tim riley talk 20:46, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
    • I have added a few bits to Roger Delage, but I am sure there is more if I knew where to look. Will return the man himself shortly. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 22:10, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
      • I have now read through Chabrier, and although there is little I would wish to correct, it has made me keen to add more to the article, and I have made some notes which I will translate to more text over the next week or so with references. That should give more space for pictures. Meanwhile, I am trying to find a reliable source which places Chabrier in this Manet picture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Carnival#/media/File:Edouard_Manet_093.jpg. I understand he is one of the figures on the right, but am not keen on the sources I have discovered. If you have a good source, I'd like to add to the list of pictures with him in. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 21:47, 21 September 2018 (UTC) PS I have now found this - where it should have been of course, in the Iconographie... Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 22:50, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Really excellent extra material. I am tempted to change my mind and put the article up for GA. But I shall sit back pro tem and enjoy your additions, which are giving me great pleasure. Meanwhile, I am working offline on Berlioz, so beware! I shall be after your input there too in due course. In passing, you may enjoy this from Chabrier on Berlioz:

"Berlioz, Français avant tout (il n'était pas vieux jeu à son époque!) en mettait-il de la variété, de la couleur, du rythme—Ça manque d'unité, vous répond-on! — Moi je réponds 'Merde!'" (Chabrier, letter of 17 July 1887)

I don't know that I shall be including that in my draft of the Berlioz article. Tim riley talk 20:14, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

I am being very slow but have various things I would like to add - I will let you know when I am more-or-less done. Although his life was relatively short and the first half fairly uneventful, and his compositions not plentiful, there is enough material to have a featured/good article, in due course (if Jules, André, Gabriel, Claude and Maurice plus Francis, can have one, why not?). I do know that quote, and as an indication of his radical attitudes it might be useable in his article, if not in Hector's... Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 22:12, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

I have included that short, sharp piece of musical criticism in the Berlioz article, though I have coyly tucked it away in a footnote. Hector is now at peer review if you have time and inclination to look in. No obligation, naturally. Meanwhile, Chabrier's article gets better and better, and should I think be considered for GAN once you've finished your work on it. There is no hurry whatever for this. Amitiés, Tim riley talk 14:35, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Pierre Boulez

Delighted to see you chez Robinson Crusoé, mon général. Could I possibly entice you into a slightly less foot-tapping area of French music, namely Boulez? A fairly new editor, Dmass, has been working away on the article, to – I think – superb effect, and he has it up for peer review with FAC in mind. If you could look in and comment it would be greatly welcomed. I shall be bothering you again later as Smerus is twisting my arm to join him in getting Offenbach up to FAC, and I might even seek to twist your arm, to join us in the final ascent on the peak. – Tim riley talk 23:17, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

I had better not promise, but if I can find time over Easter I will have a look; who knows? - I may be able to put 12 notes together. I am still struggling making slow progress with EC's songs, but it should be done soon. I would like to check through all the Offenbach articles for any quick improvements that could be made, and maybe even break my rule of only writing about things I have seen or heard, by adding the important missing ones. Tales of Hoffmann ought to be improved, but it is one of those articles which attracts fly-by-night edits.Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 21:33, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Jules Massenet scheduled for TFA

This is to let you know that Jules Massenet has been scheduled as WP:TFA for 12 May 2019. Please check that the article needs no amendments. If you're interested in editing the main page text, you're welcome to do so at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/May 12, 2019. Thanks! Ealdgyth - Talk 21:28, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Beethoven's Works

Thanks for your edits. I've changed it to your second option. Cheers, Hochithecreator (talk) 12:48, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

French capitalisation

Good morning! If you have a couple of minutes, I'd be grateful for your thoughts on the drafting point raised here. I am open-minded on the matter, and I'm not sure there is a single right answer. It would be good to know your views. Tim riley talk 07:01, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Songs of Chabrier

Magnifique! I shall enjoy a leisurely perusal with my morning coffee tomorrow. Tim riley talk 21:17, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks so much for all your very helpful comments which I have more or less included, apart from the Bernac page numbers, which are correct (ie not all are p81) but I am not the best at formatting repeating references so I will get round to sorting those out! Many thanks again. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 21:26, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

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Don José

Not, I feel, for the article talk page, but as you ask me "if you have one word to describe Don José, what would it be?", my answer would be "idiot". Carmen seems to me populated with unpleasing persons. Micaëla is a needy bore, Escamillo a buffoon and Carmen herself is, calmly considered, not a nice person. Still, the music redeems all, and it is undeniably a marvellous opera. Tim riley talk 18:03, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Well, he's certainly a bit mixed up, but there wouldn't be much opera at all if the characters were terribly sensible people like us. You can't have the 'Gondoliers' every night. (And I think Bizet does actually mark Escamillo's song "avec fatuité").Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 19:45, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

The Gondoliers are not that well-ordered: "one third of myself has married one half of ye or you", but thank you so much for "avec fatuité", which I didn't know and am enchanted to learn. You have made my day. Tim riley talk 20:11, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

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Your revertion of my contribution

Hello Cg2p0B0u8m, thank you for reverting my contribution here. I was too focused on the "he begun" and overlooked the tiny "has" before the "he"... --Cyfal (talk) 17:35, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

• No problem... Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 17:46, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Always precious

Ten years ago, you were found precious. That's what you are, always. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:09, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the recordings for Graham Clark! Can you please add a ref, as it is a GA? Some more links perhaps? - I'd do it myself but have little time right now. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:39, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

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Lucky-Peter's Journey Recording

Hello - thanks for your amendment of the recording section of the Lucky-Peter's Journey article. I confess I am very curious how you know of this Oriel Music Trust CD. I know from personal correspondance that more than one person recorded that 5 February 1970 BBC Radio 3 recording. A gentleman in London with whom I exchanged emails about the opera himself made a recording. He says he gave a copy of his recording to Josef Weinberger the copyright holders of the opera libretto and to the composer. He told me he listened to the archive.org recording and that it is not his recording (he had speculated that perhaps Josef Wieinberger might have made their copy to archive.org). He says he edited his copy to remove extraneous, distractions--thus there are at least two, his and the archive.org recording. I think there could be three sources for the Oriel Music Trust recording: 1. The same source as the archive.org recording; 2. Josef Weinberger Ltd; 3. Another as yet unknown individual's recording. In any case, it is remarkable that at least two people, and maybe more, recorded that BBC Radio 3 broadcast and that the recordings have survivied 50+ years and at least one is available and can be listened to. Gstalnaker (talk) 17:59, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your message. I have quite a few recordings from Oriel. I am not if they still exist but they made available radio recordings of operas from UK opera houses and donated any monies after costs to the Musicians Benevolent Fund. Sometimes they gave the source of the recording. Yes, of course I am sure more than one person recorded the Lucky-Peter broadcast and it's possible that more than one of those survived. I must listen again to my CDs to see if the criticism is fully justified! By the way, if you have access to New Grove Opera, my 1997 edition devotes quite a bit of the Malcolm Williamson article to this opera. All the best, G Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 12:04, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Paul Verlaine

Hi Cg2p0B0u8m. My mistake. Got mixed up, confused blessent (3rd person plural present) and blessant (present continuous). Bon travail. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 20:25, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

No problem.... Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 20:26, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

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Richard Suart

If possible, could you add anything concerning his more recent roles? Thanks for any help there! -- Ssilvers (talk) 01:50, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

• Will have a go once I've done with a new singer I'm trying to create. There seems to be a fair amount in Opera mag. Did you know he had written a second book (the first is mentioned), Mikado Memories published by Pallas Athene Books?Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 20:03, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the updates! -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:57, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

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La Perichole

I apologize again for my graceless handling of your additions to the subsequent productions section of the article. I hope you are pleased with the subsequent developments, and I would value your further input to both the article and the Talk page. Best wishes, -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:34, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, and apology accepted. I'll have a proper look later but it seems to have improved greatly. Thanks. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 13:45, 6 April 2024 (UTC)