Template:Did you know nominations/John T. Newton

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by MeegsC (talk) 09:59, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

John T. Newton

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USS Missouri on fire at Gibraltar, 1843 painting by Edward Duncan

... that after commanding USS Missouri on the first steam-powered crossing of the Atlantic, Captain John T. Newton was court-martialed after a crewman accidentally started a fire that destroyed the ship? Source: "The trial of Capt. John T. Newton, in which the Naval Court Martial now assembled in this city have been engaged for the last three weeks, terminated yesterday. ... One of our most distinguished and gallant officers has been arraigned on the charge of negligence in the loss of that splendid steamship, the Missouri, which was destroyed by fire at Gibraltar in August, 1843, and which he commanded."New York Daily Herald, October 16, 1844

5x expanded by Clarityfiend (talk) and BD2412 (talk). Nominated by Clarityfiend (talk) at 06:59, 5 April 2021 (UTC).

Reviewed: Vril-ya Bazaar and Fete.

This is a great rescue job from the AfD. I hope and expect this will pass, but there are a couple of things to address. Review follows:
- Newness: Technically a fail but IAR. At the time this was nominated, (06:59, 5 April) the article was 17,408 bytes (raw), 6756 characters (1099 words) readable. Seven days earlier was 29 March. The 5x expansion started on 26 March either here or here depending on which is the relevant metric. It's clearly one continued expansion by the same editors, though, so I trust that there's enough leeway to pass this.
- Length (it was still marked as a stub on the talk page but I've graded it C for now. Could be B); sourcing (I don't have access many but they look good); NPV ; plagiarism/copyvios:
- Hook sourcing: It is interesting but I need clarification on the sourcing. The source given here mentions the court martial, but not the "first steam-powered crossing of the Atlantic". The sentence in the article has two references. One is written by Newton himself and also doesn't mention this. I don't have access to the other, or the one at the end of the paragraph. Can you confirm with a quotation that one of them covers that claim? Looking at USS Missouri (1841) it doesn't give an inline citation but mentions using free text from this page, which says it was the first "power crossing of the Atlantic by an American steam warship" (my emphasis). That's narrower, and would need to be reflected both in the article and (if mentioned) in the hook if there were earlier non-American or non-warship crossings.
- Hook interesting:
- Hook length: The hook is either 200 or 201 characters, depending if the space between the ellipsis and "that" counts. That puts it right on, or just over, the limit. I'd propose shorter alts, which would rely on the same sourcing once provided. I prefer the first as it's crisper, but if you want to include the image then only the second really works.
  - ALT1 ~~... that Captain John T. Newton commanded USS Missouri on the first steam-powered crossing of the Atlantic?~~
  - ALT2 ~~... that Captain John T. Newton commanded USS Missouri (pictured) on the first steam-powered Atlantic crossing, but was court-martialled when it was later destroyed in a fire?~~
- Image: Clear ; used in the article ; relevant ; and seems free of copyright issues . The Commons page has a tag on it, but as a picture from 1843 none of the potential concerns it mentions applies.
- QPQ: Done
- Overall:
› Mortee _talk 23:36, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

An interesting point. This source refers to it as "the first United States Navy steam-powered ship to cross the Atlantic"; a search for earlier Atlantic crossings brings up a much earlier transit by the SS Savannah, which was a hybrid steam and sailing ship. BD2412 T 00:01, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

ALT3: "that Captain John T. Newton commanded USS Missouri on the first crossing of the Atlantic by an American steam-powered warship, then was court-martialed after an accidental fire sank the ship? (See painting.)"
ALT4: "that after commanding USS Missouri on the first crossing of the Atlantic by an American steam-powered warship, Captain John T. Newton was court-martialed after an accidental fire sank the ship? (See painting.) "... the frigate steamed from Norfolk ... for Gibraltar on the first power crossing of the Atlantic by an American steam warship."[1] Clarityfiend (talk) 00:25, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Clarityfiend. I see you've fixed the wording in the article too. I've moved the reference to the body of the article and I think this is good to go now. I'm striking the earlier ALTs and passing ALT3 and ALT4. I prefer ALT3 since it puts the name of the article earlier. › Mortee _talk 00:49, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

re your last edit, if the picture is included it'll probably be "(pictured)" after the mention of USS Missouri rather than "(See painting.)" at the end. I've no objection either way. › Mortee _talk 01:16, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
I also prefer ALT3, as it only uses the word "after" once, which is enough. BD2412 T 20:33, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
Let's say ALT3a: "that Captain John T. Newton commanded USS Missouri (pictured) on the first crossing of the Atlantic by an American steam-powered warship, then was court-martialed after an accidental fire sank the ship?" BD2412 T 20:35, 26 April 2021 (UTC)