Talk:Short SC.1

Aircraft specifications

Graeme:

I have checked the referenced R & M 3584 (and R & M 3313 which discusses the ground effect on the SC.1) and both sources give the wing area as 221.5 ft²: Which source did you use for the wing area of 141.9 ft²?

I have distinguished between total length (including nose boom), derived from the line drawings in R & M 3584 and that given on p.22 (25.5 ft excl. nose boom). The specifications template doesn't cater for this distinction, so for now I have use the 'alt' entry for this purpose. There must be a better way ... ?

Thanks for your help with the new Shorts aircraft entries. TraceyR 18:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Ground effect

There seems to some confusion about which phenomenon is meant by this term. When R & M 3313 was written in 1963, "ground effect" referred to loss of net verical thrust due to recirculation of air masses. The wiki entry on ground effect refers however to a gain in lift experienced by convention aircraft wings when flown close to the ground. The losses due to recirculation are apparently now known as the vortex ring effect, but this may be sprecific to rotary wing aircraft. I note from a couple of the references cited in R & M 3313 that "ground proximity effect" was an earlier term.

I have raised the subject on the vortex ring talk page ...

Can anyone help here? Thanks TraceyR 19:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I think you are right, what was meant was ingestion of the air from the SC.1's jet efflux. i.e., the jet exhaust 'bouncing' off the ground and then re-entering the engine air intakes resulting in a loss of thrust. This was most apparent on a newly-mown grass airfield, where the grass cuttings would be blown out and up by the lift-jet exhaust and then re-circulated into the lift engine intakes, clogging the wire mesh grilles. Ian Dunster 15:18, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Infobox dates

I see no point in replacing the "<year> in aviation" link by a date link - how does this help? I have changed it back. TraceyR 11:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

New category?

Is there a category for aircraft with 5-engines? ;-) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TraceyR (talk • contribs) 21:40, 5 March 2007 (UTC).

Wing area, weight, length and other dependent data

When removing the B.A.D. reference I replaced the above data with those from Barnes and James. I failed to notice that the B&J specs conflicted with those given in two flight test reports (mentioned above). I cannot check out and correct these errors for a while, so could someone else please check and correct them (and the wing loadings and thrust/weight ratios)? I'm sorry to leave them in this state but must get on with something in the real world which must be done sooner! Thanks. --TraceyR (talk) 16:51, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

• • I've no new sources, but have done a consistency check on B&J by estimating the area from their g/a. Without being particularly refined, ie not allowing for fuselage curvature and only roughly correcting for the slight trailing edge sweep, I got 137 ft², the same as B&J's 142 ft² within the errors and very different from the R&M no. To get up to that, the area would have to be that of the whole underside including fuselage. I've not measured that, but it is a bit less than 250 ft² because of nose and tail taper.TSRL (talk) 08:57, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

I've found another source for specs - British Jet Aircraft by Adrian Vickery (1982). This gives a span of 23 ft 6 in (consistant),length of 29 ft 10 in, a height of 10 ft 8 in (new) and a wing area of 141.9 ft2,(consistant with B&J). All-up weight is 8050 lb.Nigel Ish (talk) 19:35, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Shorts S.C.1 revert the re-direct

Somebody has been messing twith the article title changing it from the correct one to an incorrect one. I propose removing the re-direct. The correct title should be as was.Petebutt (talk) 22:52, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Tail

Since reliable sources say that the aircraft has a tail, why do we call it tailless? bobrayner (talk) 21:12, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

In the UK 'tailess' refers to an aeroplane with a fin/rudder but no tailplane.

That's why the Avro Vulcan and Short SC.1 were properly referred to as 'tailess-deltas' and the Gloster Javelin as a 'tailed-delta'.

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