Talk:SMART-1

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the SMART-1 article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Spaceflight Mid‑importance

	Spaceflight portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Spaceflight, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of spaceflight on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SpaceflightWikipedia:WikiProject SpaceflightTemplate:WikiProject Spaceflightspaceflight articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Astronomy Low‑importance

	Astronomy portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Astronomy, which collaborates on articles related to Astronomy on Wikipedia.AstronomyWikipedia:WikiProject AstronomyTemplate:WikiProject AstronomyAstronomy articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Europe: ESA Mid‑importance

	Europe portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Europe, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to European topics of a cross-border nature on Wikipedia.EuropeWikipedia:WikiProject EuropeTemplate:WikiProject EuropeEurope articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by ESA task force (assessed as High-importance).

Physics Low‑importance

	Physics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Physics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Physics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PhysicsWikipedia:WikiProject PhysicsTemplate:WikiProject Physicsphysics articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Sweden Low‑importance

	Sweden portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sweden, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Sweden-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SwedenWikipedia:WikiProject SwedenTemplate:WikiProject SwedenSweden articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Xenon fuel

When it says "The onboard fuel reserve amounts to just 60 litres (about 16 gallons) of inert xenon, with a mass of 80 kg" I presume this is liquid (from the weight given). Can anyone confirm this, and if so I just thought it was worth mentioning.

Also is the Xenon strictly speaking a fuel? It is not powering the engine - isn't it a propellant? CharlesC 19:53, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Changed "fuel" to "propellant," good catch! Don't know about the other question, will have to check. Awolf002 20:27, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ion thrusters traditionally work with gas state, I doubt SMART's thruster works differently. In addition, xenon has a very low boiling point (-108.12 °C, -162.62 °F), impossible to keep for all the duration of the mission (AFAIK, payload fairing is at room temperature at the moment of launch) // Duccio (write me) 22:26, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My guess is it would be pressurized and boil off would be used for propellant. Xenon is heavy so makes an ideal propellant for transferring energy to motion. Big question is who took the best pictures of it's demize yesterday? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.132.4.53 (talk • contribs) 17:05, 3 September 2006 (UTC).[reply]

I would have guessed a boiling-off liquid storage as well (simple, high energy storage with a constant nozzle pressure - like a propane burner on a tank of liquid propane). When I tried to figure it out, however, I ran into a mystery. If the tank truly is 60 litres with a mass of (assuming Xe only in mass) 80kg, that means the Xe in the tank has a density of 1330 g/litre, versus 5.89 g/litre at STP. Liquid Xe has a density of 3000 g/litre so in the tank it must be a gas, right? But at that compression of density (1330 mg/cm3), the pressure would be 226 atmospheres, while according to this phase diagram, Xe would have to be a liquid at this pressure and any reasonable temperature (eg: liquification at c.45atm at 0˚C or 10atm at -40˚C). Any ideas?132.204.195.69 22:57, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just saw that diagram: did you get there from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon? I think that image is incorrectly linked, it does not refer to Xenon (look at the URL: http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/images/elastic_fluids/critpoint_med.jpg) - I'll remove that link, let's use http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Xe/index.html as a reference. // Duccio (write me) 09:02, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Images of the impact

Perhaps these could be added using {{noncommercial-ESA}}? http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=39962 // Duccio (write me) 17:33, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Those images are tagged as copyright CFHT (Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope); would probably need to look into their policies, not ESA.132.204.195.69 19:04, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Right here:[1]

"You can freely use these pictures for your own personal use. Note, however, that "personal use" does not include the use of pictures on a personal web site if that web site is open to the general public. In such case, we however encourage the use of our material as long as we are first consulted and informed of its use and our copyright is acknowledged in a legible manner. Please also include a link to the CFHT's Hawaiian Starlight main web site." Last two things in that list can easily be done. The rest seems to be just telling them that it's here. Looks good.--Planetary 04:34, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also: looks like there's already one of their images on Wikipedia.[2]--Planetary 04:37, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One shot

Someone has found good to delete the line about the fact that there is no further mission to the Moon foreseen by ESA. I think that the fact that this mission has no continuation or posterity whatsover is an interesting fact. Further exploration of the Moon will be performed by the US and the space powers from Asia. But not Europe. Hektor 07:15, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody objected to selenial 9/11?

Were there any protests? I mean it is not polite to crash into your home without asking first. Also, mankind should not use the Moon as a junkyard, there is already enough soviet Luna and american Apollo iron scrap left up there. Look at the Himalya, mountain climbing expeditions littered the landscape with compressed air bottles, damaged tents, corpses etc. That should not happen to the Moon. 195.70.32.136 07:35, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nevermind. You seem to be a troll, judging from a look at your history.--Planetary 04:33, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

PELs

I wonder about "surrounded by craters in eternal darkness", I don't see that it follows, or is even likely. Rich Farmbrough, 08:46 4 September 2006 (GMT).

It is likely, as Luna's inclination to ecliptic is small (some 5°). By the way, what's PELs for? // Duccio (write me) 15:25, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Apollo 11 Landing Sight?

I wonder. did the SMART-1 Catch an image of the Apollo 11 landing sight?

Nope, resolution wasn't good enough. A previous spacecraft did, however (Apollo 15)[3]. The Clementine mission spotted it in 2001.--Planetary 04:31, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

68 Nm thrust?

Surely you mean 68mN? - which would fit with mass = 367kg and acceleration of 0.2 mm/s²

Today's news: "Space probe crashes deliberately on the moon."

I had to read the title twice.

The European Space Agency's SMART-1 satellite successfully completes its mission by deliberately crashing onto the Moon.

isn't that like, a NASA first? :D :D :D

Project2501a 20:49, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not at all. Many things end their mission by colliding with something. Look at the Luna program which went on for almost 30 years. In those days there weren't any fancy things like changing trajectory, the direction you launched was the direction you went. The Ranger program as well. Definently not a NASA first. (This is the first time for ESA, though.)--Planetary 21:19, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delta-v units

The units given after the term "delta-v" are m/s (meters per second) these are not units for acceleration, I changed this to m/s² assuming it was a typo but it was changed back. Could someone please explain or correct this.

Delta-v (

\Delta v

) is a change in velocity.

\Delta

is commonly used to denote a difference. And

v

is - of course - velocity. The engine thrust is what causes an acceleration. But the sentence in question mentions that 1kg of propellant was used to cause a

\delta v

- a change of velocity - of 45 m/s and this is indeed correct since the thrust of the engine goes not change with the amount of used propellant. --J-Star 07:53, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

\Delta v

is NOT acceleration, it's the change in speed irrespective of time. Acceleration, a, is

{\frac {dv}{dt}}

- the derivative of velocity with respect to time. When simply discussing

\Delta v

, the same units as for v are used. siafu 13:34, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Calcium

Why is it notable that Smart-1 detected calcium on the Moon? Didn't Lunar Prospector do that in 1998? The Smart-1 "discovery" was reported in the media, a Google search tells me; but there really isn't any new information at all! I'm removing it from the "Important Events and Discoveries" section.--Planetary 06:53, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Smart28261.jpg

Image:Smart28261.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 05:35, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Fig2-410.jpg

Image:Fig2-410.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinate Data on Other Planets

There needs to be a way to allow the geo-positional mapping on other planets and celestial bodies (i.e. the moon.) 75.52.205.241 (talk) 20:17, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See Template:Coord#globe:G. BrainMarble (talk) 23:35, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Update needed

The last paragraph of the Mission section currently says:

SMART-1 ended its mission by being deliberately crashed onto the Moon's surface at 34°14′S 46°07′W / 34.24°S 46.12°W / -34.24; -46.12. Scientists hope that the impact will have kicked up a large enough quantity of fresh lunar "soil" so that they may study its composition.
— SMART-1#Mission

So, the obvious question to me is: "Did it kick up enough "soil" to study it's composition?" Incidentally, I'm going to go and edit the "fresh lunar "soil"" part to say "regolith" instead. I don't see a reason to simplify the statement when we can use the correct term and wlink it.
— V = I * R (talk to Ω) 06:17, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Total Impulse: 1.1 MN-s". Are MN meganewtons? Micronewtons? Millinewtons? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.174.172.161 (talk) 22:54, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

All ESA SMART-1 images now under CC BY-SA

Hi there, All ESA SMART-1 images now under CC BY-SA, see http://open.esa.int/the-moon-by-smart-1/ - please use them to illustrate this article! (Mtrova (talk) 17:34, 15 March 2017 (UTC))[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on SMART-1. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:23, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]