Talk:Pepa (rapper)

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Musicians

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians (assessed as Low-importance).

Women

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles

Women in Music Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women in music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in MusicWikipedia:WikiProject Women in MusicTemplate:WikiProject Women in MusicWomen in music articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women in hip hop music Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in hip hop music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles about women in hip hop music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in hip hop musicWikipedia:WikiProject Women in hip hop musicTemplate:WikiProject Women in hip hop musicWomen in hip hop music articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Hip hop Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hip hop, a collaborative effort to build a useful resource for and improve the coverage of hip hop on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.Hip hopWikipedia:WikiProject Hip hopTemplate:WikiProject Hip hopHip hop articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Caribbean: Jamaica

	Caribbean portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Caribbean, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to the countries of the Caribbean on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the welcome page to become familiar with the guidelines.CaribbeanWikipedia:WikiProject CaribbeanTemplate:WikiProject CaribbeanCaribbean articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	Jamaica portal This article is supported by WikiProject Jamaica (assessed as Low-importance).

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Sandra Denton. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080830040329/http://www.letstalkaboutpep.com:80/ to http://www.letstalkaboutpep.com

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 18:28, 24 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Year of birth

The range between '64 and '69 is a large difference. ~~I cannot access Archive.org currently to investigate what I suspect may be the cause of the differences~~ Basically, I'm looking for the earliest reliable reports of her age and birth year. I'm not sure if birth records are available. --Ronz (talk) 17:22, 30 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've access to Archive.org now, but didn't find the specific info I was looking for.

The VH1 Behind the Scenes video does state she was 15 in 1979. --Ronz (talk) 16:19, 31 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have restored the two years once again. If there are other WP:DOB issues, it might be best to remove the year completely. I've not looked for what she herself says, and don't recall coming across it. --Ronz (talk) 15:07, 26 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If we can find a source for her claiming to be 51 this year as suggested by [1], then I'd say we remove the year completely. However, what I'm finding is that two years ago there were reports of her celebrating her 51st, but all from rather unreliable sources. --Ronz (talk) 02:37, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In the 1990s the most frequent birth year found in books was 1969 (The Virgin Encyclopedia of Dance Music, p. 297; The Da Capo Companion to 20th-century Popular Music, p. 828; International Who's who in Music, p. 444), but there is a German publication that says 1965: Jörg Amtage & Matthias Müller präsentieren Alle Hits aus Deutschlands Charts 1954-2003, p. 520, published in 2003. Denton's autobiography Let's Talk About Pep gives her birth year as 1969. I think we should tell the reader that there is uncertainty about the birth year, while providing 1969 as the most authoritative. Binksternet (talk) 02:49, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the year until we can figure this out. --Ronz (talk) 15:58, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.tmz.com/2015/11/11/salt-n-pepa-birthday-surprise/ is one of the sources reporting on her being 51 in 2015. I didn't realize that it's generally considered a reliable source. Most of the other sources for the same information cite TMZ. --Ronz (talk) 16:12, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The '64/'65 years are consistent with every other date and life event. '69 is not, especially for early life events. '66 seems a stretch. Finding an early or clearly well-researched biography would help. I think the VH1 Behind the Music video fits that criteria. --Ronz (talk) 17:39, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The People Magazine ref contradicts a '69 birthday. --Ronz (talk) 18:03, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

From what I'm seeing as I look for early information on her, I'd be surprised if any source for '69 predates her tv shows. --Ronz (talk) 18:13, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Looking over the article history:

The third edit to the article listed '69. Oct 2005

The first time I can find '64 is Feb 2007.

('66 in Jan 2015, '67 in April 2008)

From what I'm seeing, this article has listed '69 until 2007, '64 mostly through February 2013, then back-and-forth or both since. If Wikipedia has influenced sources for her birthday, I don't think it's obvious. Still, if the source doesn't have historical context, I don't think we should be using it, or at least not prioritizing it. --Ronz (talk) 18:37, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well I found an article that says she celebrated her 43rd birthday in 2007 Brown Sista, which would coincide with a 1964 birth year. --Vidal (talk) 15:10, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I am not finding any discussions on its reliability. Maybe it's time for an RfC, to see what other editors think. The best three sources I think are Behind the Music, People, and Biography.com. Unfortunately, biography.com says '69. Also, her "Let's Talk About Pep" biography says '69, though I cannot tell from what's available online if it is anywhere in the book beyond the author info, "Denton, Sandra, 1969-". I cannot find anything one way or another about her attitude toward revealing her age. --Ronz (talk) 22:58, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to make a list of all the sources as a first step, if someone doesn't beat me to it. --Ronz (talk) 21:39, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

1964

Salt-N-Pepa Pushin' It Real Good for ... Pep's 51st Bday Surprise 11/11/2015. Widely cited in celebrity press.
Pepa Celebrates The Big 4-3 November 3, 2007
Behind The Music – Salt N' Pepa – 2001
BET.COM - This Day In Black History (Nov 9, 1964) November 9, 2013
Hollywood - Sandra (Pepa) Denton
Hip Hop in America: A Regional Guide - Salt N' Pepa 2009

Earlier than 1969

People Magazine - Salt 'n Pepa Shake It Up, Laying a Cold Rap on Men - April 18, 1988 "Salt ‘n Pepa, who are in their early 20s..."
Salt-N-Pepa Preaching Empowerment Deseret News. May 6, 1994. "Although James, Denton and Roper (who won't divulge exact ages but admit they are in their late 20s)"

1969

Biography - Sandra Denton (1969-)
The Virgin Encyclopedia of Dance Music(1998), p. 297
The Da Capo Companion to 20th-century Popular Music(1995), p. 828
International Who's who in Music, p. 444
I'm finding many publications with this name, none that I can find online access to. --Ronz (talk) 19:53, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Let's Talk About Pep - By Sandy Denton
I cannot tell if there are any relevant dates in the book itself beyond the author info, "Denton, Sandra, 1969-" --Ronz (talk) 19:53, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
BBC - Sandra Denton
The Encyclopedia of Popular Music - Sandra Denton
Worldcat - Denton, Sandra 1969 -
Hip Hop Culture - Salt N' Pepa
Complete UK Hit Singles - Salt N' Pepa
Women, Music, Culture: An Introduction - By Julie C. Dunbar - Salt N' Pepa

Desire to keep year private?

Denton has withheld her age in the past. The People Magazine reference doesn't give exact ages, nor the Deseret News article. She also says in her book that her mother wouldn't divulge her own age, nor the age of any of Sandra's siblings. --Ronz (talk) 16:59, 3 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

RfC?

I think we're ready for an RfC if it is needed. I think the options are to not list a year, list '64 and '69 as we did earlier, or list '64 and '69 with some emphasis on one year over the other. I'm going to leave it here unless others respond. --Ronz (talk) 00:26, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should just list '64 and '69 as it was previously stated on the page and since those two years are the most sourced. --T.D. Hoxey (talk) 16:18, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I cannot access "United States Public Records, 1970-2009". FamilySearch.org. May 23, 2014. Retrieved January 6, 2018.. What does it say? How is it not a primary source? --Ronz (talk) 17:47, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The United States Public Record shows a snippet of Pepa's education, resident history, family and alias, It states her birth year as 1966 and her mother's birth year as 1927; which would coincide with Pepa's daughter Egypt Criss' Instgram post [2] celebrating Enid Denton (Pepa's mother) 90th birthday in December 2017. --T.D. Hoxey (talk) 17:47, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Please leave it out until there is consensus for inclusion per BLP. Note that primary sources will likely not settle this, though the details may help.

What sources does FamilySearch.org indicate as the source(s) for '66?

Could you simply quote anything that would help us, such as dates of education, residency, etc?

What does the 1927 date have to do with anything? --Ronz (talk) 23:47, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the FamilySearch.org indicate her birth year as 1966. I was stating that FamilySearch. org and the United States Public Record indicate Pepa's year of birth as 1966 and her mother Enid Denton birth year as 1927. With that being said, Information from both sites basically coincide with Pepa's daughter Egypt Criss' Instgram post [3] celebrating her grandmother, Enid Denton (Pepa's mother) 90th birthday in December 2017. 2017-90=1927! in which both websites confirm Peps's mother year of birth, 1927. In conclusion, I'm basically telling you that both sites can serve as reliable sources for Pepa's year of birth. --T.D. Hoxey (talk) 13:26, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You appear to ignoring my comments and questions. I feel I'm wasting my time repeating myself at this point. Let's get others involved.

The claim that 1966 is somehow verified by something listed by FamilySearch.org isn't enough to go on, but it does make an RfC at this point problematic until we can get my questions answered. What specific documents does FamilySearch.org cite, and what exactly do those documents say?

I still haven't any idea why the instagram post has been brought up. I don't think it a problem to ignore at this point. --Ronz (talk) 21:50, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've asked for help at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Pepa_(rapper)_-_year_of_birth_-_familysearch.org_access_could_be_helpful. --Ronz (talk) 23:51, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the archived BLPN discussion.

An ip has added both years. Another almost immediately added '66 without a source, which I reverted

I think we have a good case for both years, though we should be using the best of the sources to do so. --Ronz (talk) 04:42, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

An ip added '66 back with two unreliable sources, while removing content verified by the VH1 reference. --Ronz (talk) 18:15, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've requested the article be semi-protected.

Please note that the VH1 video has been verified. A current link to the video is not required, and removal of a reference because of a lack of a live link is inappropriate. It's by far the best reference we have, providing detailed historical information that's consistent with every other source of remotely similar detail, including her own biography. --Ronz (talk) 17:32, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

WP:DOB now says to include multiple dates if references support them

Since the above discussion, WP:DOB has been changed to include, If multiple independent reliable sources state differing years or dates of birth in conflict, the consensus is to include all birth dates/years for which a reliable source exists, clearly noting discrepancies... --Hipal (talk) 21:18, 22 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Marriage location

We currently list "at a tatoo parlor" and "at home" for the same event. Unless the civil and religious (or private) events occurred at different times and locations? Rmhermen (talk) 18:16, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

15 in Utah

The reference is VH1 Behind the Scenes, probably the best reference we have on the subject. Should we add a note? --Hipal (talk) 21:32, 29 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]