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industrial heroes

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Most city articles have a section called "Notable people". calling it "Industrial heroes" looks more like fancruft than a serious article section. Rhialto 07:36, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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from wp:el:

"English language links are strongly preferred in the English-language Wikipedia. It may be appropriate to have a link to a foreign-language site, such as when an official site is unavailable in English (emphasis added), when the link is to the subject's text in its original language or they contain visual aids such as maps, diagrams, or tables, per the guideline on foreign-language sites."

Since the official web site of the city is available in English, it is not appropriate to include the official translations of that page in other languages as an external link. Rhialto 09:46, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I mostly agree. I wouldn't have deleted the ja: link (per text in its original language above); but, since there are links to both Japanese (and Portugese) from the English page, then, it's not such a big deal. Neier 12:58, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Since there is a link to the English website, I don't see any reasons to "delete" the links to other languages. Are they so annoying? I don't think so. Moreover, the contents on the English website is severely limited compared to the Japanese site, so it is appropriate to put a link to the Japanese site. I will recover the links. --Tkh 17:56, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I made the link to the English site the first entry. As for the Portuguese wiki page, it has much less information than the English page and thus we can assume that many Portuguese speakers want to see this page. So it is useful too. If the Portuguese page has sufficient information, then I agree to move the link to the Portuguese page. But until then, let's keep the link. --Tkh 18:18, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Rhialto, respond to my comments before reverting the article. --Tkh 18:42, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't see any particular need to respond, seeing as how the MOS is quite clear on linking to non-English language sites. But since you insist...

The Portuguese version of that page has no relevance to the English wiki. The intended audience is NOT Portuguese speakers - that is the role of the Portuguse version of wikipedia. It doesn't matter that whether teh Portuguese version of wikipedia's article on Hamamatsu is incomplete - Portuguese speakers (or xyz speakers) are NOT the intended audience of this wiki. The correct solution to this issue is to expand the Portuguese wikipedia article, not make the English wikipedia article cater to non-English-speakers.

If you can show how that Portuguese page expands the amount of useful information to the intended audience of this wiki, then the link is worth keeping here. Otherwise, it has no relevance here. I'm leaving it for now, thanks to the 3RR, but there really isn't any reason to keep that link there in the English wiki. Rhialto 19:30, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have already shown in my last comment the relevance of keeping the link to the Portuguese site. You seem to miss the point. Many of native Portuguese speakers (or xyz speakers) are also English speakers. There is no question that they prefer their native language if available. Therefore it is relevant to put links to other languages given that those pages on Wikipedia lack information. Can you be more productive rather than trying to strictly apply the Wikipedia policies on such a nominal thing? --Tkh 21:41, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It is NOT relevant. What is relevant is the pt: link on the left, where Portugese information can be found. You are essentially saying that FIFA should have the links to the German, Spanish, and French versions of the FIFA home page, because Germans, Spaniards, and French can also speak English? I think that's ridiculous. Neier 23:46, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes it is. Reread what I said. My justification is *conditional*. Therefore your analogy doesn't apply to the case here. Somebody should put a link on the Portuguese page and then I agree to remove the Portuguese link. --Tkh 01:28, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The en: wikipedia is not the place to discuss editing in ja:, pt:, de:, or any other wikipedia. Neier 02:44, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Since I am talking about moving a link from *this page* to other, the discussion here is totally relevant. I guess you lost any logical grounds to refute what I said. Since the Wikipedia policy doesn't strictly prohibit inclusion of links in foreign languages, my proposal is a reasonable compromise. Is it such a big deal to remove a link? --Tkh 03:27, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
WP:EL; especially points #1 and #3 at the top in Important points to remember, effectively denies the requirement of extra links in this article. As for refuting your third sentence, can you tell me which appropriate point of Foreign-language links the Portugese link to a Japanese page on the English wikipedia addresses? WP:EL says that foreign links are appropriate when an official site is unavailable in English (nope; site is available in English) when the link is to the subject's text in its original language (nope; original language is Japanese) or they contain visual aids such as maps, diagrams, or tables (three strikes). Neier 06:24, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
WP:EL on foreign links is not an exhaustive list for inclusion of a foreign link nor the requirements a link has to meet all. These are exactly why I said it doesn't prohibit the case we are discussing. You also haven't answered my last question. My condition to keep the Portuguese link is not against WP:EL. Is it such a big deal to remove a link? You said no. You are contradicting yourself. --Tkh 09:36, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's debateable whether a site has to meet all teh criteria that page lists. But that Portuguese page doesn't meet *any*. The only reason you have given for including the link is that it caters for Portuguese speakers. But that is not the intended audience of this site, and so it is a non-reason. Rhialto 11:36, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's not debatable at least on this page. A foreign link doesn't have to meet all the criteria. They are merely non-exhaustive examples for inclusion and nothing more. My condition to have the Portuguese link is not against the Wikipedia policy. As I stated above, the link is for English speakers who happen to be native Portuguese speakers. Why are you so eager to remove the links? What is your motivation? I ask you again, Rhialto, why is it such a big deal to remove links? I already proposed a reasonable compromise. It's your turn now. --Tkh 01:04, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My motivation is that the official wikipedia policy says not to have that link. You are catering to an audience that this wiki is specifically not being written for. If you don't like wikipedia policy on this matter, I suggest taking it up in the discussion page for wp:el, not here. Your claim that it is for English speakers who hapepn to also speak Portuguese is disingenious; for an English speaker, the English version of that site alone would suffice. Rhialto 07:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My claim is not disingenuous, yours is. It's not about whether you like the policy or not. Your interpretation is just plain wrong. As I stated above, it's not against [[WP::EL]]. If you are so sure that it is, go to the policy page and change it. --Tkh 13:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

At this stage, I think the only way to continue is probably to make a formal request for comments. I'm confident that you will not be laughed at, but only because that would be bad ettiquette. I refrained so far because I'd hate to see this page on WP:LAME, but if you're game, I can put out the rfc. Rhialto 14:55, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Finally a personal attack? Very nice behavior. Don't forget that you initiated the edit war by deleting the links. If you think it is necessary, do it. You don't need my permission. --Tkh 06:02, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not add external links that go against the wp:el policy. Rhialto 05:58, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As I stated over and over, it's not against WP:EL. I even proposed a compromise: the link will eventually be deleted. It is your turn for a compromise. You should read WP:CON before editing. --Tkh 07:10, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
From that wp:con page: "On the other hand, it is very easy to create the appearance of a changing consensus simply by asking again and hoping that a different and more sympathetic group of people will discuss the issue." You haven't brought any new information to this discussion except, apparently, a hope that we have stopped watching the page. And teh present consensus is that that link doesn't belong here. Rhialto 07:46, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As an additional counter to your argument, the manchester gov site has information availabel in almost a dozen different languages, all used commonly by segments of its population, but the wikipedia page for that city only links to the English language home page. Rhialto 07:59, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
By referring to the WP:CON, I asked you to make a compromise to reach a consensus. Take a deep look at the diagram there. Also, your example doesn't refute my argument at all. That example would be a refutation if and only if I stated that a wiki page must have links to the official website in all available languages. I have never stated such a thing. If you don't understand this simple logic, please take Logic 101. Don't revert the page until we reach a consensus because you started the edit war. --Tkh 10:22, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You are asking for the three of us to decide consensus on a matter which is far-ranging, and has been decided by the larger wikipedia community already. The issue of foreign language links is addressed in WP:EL already. If you do not like the consensus there, then, the talk page of ONE article is not the place to try and change it. Go to the talk page of WP:EL and make your case there. Neier 11:14, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You are enforcing what is not written on WP:EL. If the policy stated that there is no exception for the rules, I wouldn't keep the link, but WP:EL doesn't state such a thing and you still insist that it is against the policy. Then it is you who should go to WP:EL and request for a change. --Tkh 20:36, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that policy allows for exceptions, in the case where the foreign language page contains information not available within the English version of that page, and that foreign language page would normally qualify for inclusion were the contents written in English. The Portuguese page doesn't qualify. Rhialto 20:49, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Don't make me repeat over and over. The list is not exhaustive, but just examples. That's why my condition is not against the policy. Let me ask you a question. Why did you delete the link to the Japanese website? That is against the policy. --Tkh 20:54, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You stated at the root of this thread that the only way is a formal request for comments, but only reverted my edits. What you've done are inconsistent. --Tkh 21:15, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Also, from the designated city list, only Nagoya; Kitakyushu; Kawasaki, Kanagawa; Sapporo; Chiba, Chiba; Saitama, Saitama; Niigata, Niigata; and Sakai, Osaka has a link to a language other than English (Japanese, in all cases; and +Korean in Chiba's case). For example, Nagoya's webiste has Filipino, Portugese, Italian, and others; but, the wikipedia page is WP:EL compliant. Many cities have Korean or Chinese home pages, but (with the exception of Chiba), none of them are linked from the English Wikipedia. To keep the Portugese link in this article is a one-person crusade which goes against the consensus in all the other articles. Neier 11:30, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Your argument is screwed. Only nine cities? That's your wishful thinking, but the reality is that nine is the majority of the designated cities. So by the consensus you are talking, we should have a link to the Japanese website which both of you deleted. You acted against the consensus that you are insisting. Considering there are huge Brazilian population in the city and given that the Portuguese page doesn't have a link to the city's website, it should be reasonable to keep the link. WP:EL doesn't prohibit such a case. --Tkh 20:36, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Your whole rationale is based on a flaw in the Pt: Wikipedia article, and if you feel that the link should be added there, then edit the page.
Note that I said originally that the Japanese link was ok. I don't know why you have trouble understanding WP:EL. It makes it fairly clear when non-English links should be added. The native-language of the subject is Japanese, so, it follows that the Japanese page is linkable. The Portugese page meets none of the three criteria there; and, since there is an English page, it is not something that needs to be discussed. If the only official sites of a city were Japanese and Portugese, then, an exception might be made, since more people reading the English Wikipedia know Portugese than Japanese. But, the WP:EL guideline is designed to give information to English readers in English, and failling that, in the official language of the subject's source.
Indeed, in half of the designated cities, English and Japanese are both linked. The point was that even though the Chinese population of Tokyo is higher than the Portugese population of Hamamatsu, the Tokyo page links only to the English home page. Among the list, only Chiba links to any language other than Japanese or English. This is despite the fact that Nagoya's official site has Spanish, Italian; Sapporo's official site has Russian; Tokyo's official site has Korean and Chinese (most cities have Chinese, in fact) – but, none of those are linked on English Wikipedia. Neier 23:28, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

City history

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Why does the city history start at 1989? What happened before then? --AW 03:56, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like someone just translated the Heisei section of the history at ja:浜松市. The Japanese article goes back much much farther. Neier 11:28, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ah. Well I don't know Japanese, can anybody else translate it? --AW 15:53, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I left a request at Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan/Japan-related translation requests, since I can only read bits and pieces of it in detail. Neier 11:39, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tokai guitars

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Isn't famous Tokai guitars made in the Tokai factory? I thought that Tokai factory was in Hamamatsu. Anyone? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.106.48.81 (talk) 13:18, 8 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]

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Should we have a disambiguation link to Hamamatsuchō Station in Tokyo at the top? Perhaps one the other way too. --Apoc2400 08:35, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

On the Japanese wiki, there are about 90 articles which begin with 浜松, not counting the ones which begin with 浜松市[1]. Several of those might be notable enough for inclusion here, so, a Hamamatsu (disambiguation) page seems like a good idea. Neier 08:50, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Festivals text

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Some of the text in the Festivals section is identical to that on http://hamamatsu-daisuki.net/english/festival/top.html ... which came first? Alpheus (talk) 04:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sushi

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Notice how when you say "Hamamatsu-shi" in the end you say sushi. 24.129.237.34 (talk) 21:26, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Twin towns and sister cities

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The wiki page on "Campo Grande" says it's twinned with Hamamatsu but it's not listed here. Is this wrong? --201.24.177.117 (talk) 14:37, 30 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinate error

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Now Hamamatsu appears on map in Hyogo prefecture. True coordinates are 34.7000° N, 137.7336° E while now it's listed as 134°44′E which is even more to the west then Kobe. I have no idea how to correct map errors here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.196.208.70 (talk) 03:11, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Information in Portuguese about schools

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I found some info in Portuguese: http://www.city.hamamatsu.shizuoka.jp/hamapo/kouhou/htm_1505/information.html - It mentions Kamijima Elementary. WhisperToMe (talk) 03:54, 16 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Master's degree thesis on the subject of Brazilians in Hamamatsu

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I found a master's degree thesis, written by Daniele Arantes Nakashima of the University of Bremen.

  • Arantes Nakashima, Daniele (2017-09-12). JAPANESE BRAZILIANS IN HAMAMATSU CITY An Ethnographic Study on the Second Generation (PDF). University of Bremen.

This may be a useful resource. WhisperToMe (talk) 21:21, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Another link at core.ac.uk WhisperToMe (talk) 05:57, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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