Talk:Freddy Adu

Name

Why was his full name removed? Thnom 14:52, 18 February 2006 (UTC) How was DC United able to sign him in November, when the draft wasn't until January? Was it because they knew they had the first draft pick? RickK 03:48, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Confusing turn of events. Adu signed with MLS in November, which meant that he went to DC automatically because they had the first pick. DC made it official at the draft. - Scooter 21:31, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

if i remember correctly, dc didn't really have the first pick but were gifted it because adu wanted to stay in dc with his family.

The page states he was born in 1989, but was 16 in 2000. Typo? Or am I confusing this with the other young player mentioned? - Anon 04:24, 13 Nov 2005 (PST)

See http://dcunited.mlsnet.com officially lists it as 1989. Their have been question marks against his age as all his birth paperwork was lost when they moved to the US. So even 1989 could be incorrect. Thnom 14:45, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Featured

Now the featured article on the football portal, will be for the next few days. Phoenix2 02:42, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Prodigious Soccer Talent? Debatable...

Look at the webpages for Adriano, Robinho and Michael Owen, none of them list these strikers as "Prodigious Soccer Talents." Earlier someone said that Adu was such because numerous scouts label him as such. However, i'm sure those scouts wouldn't label him as better than Adriano or Owen, certainly not Robinho. The simple fact is that Adu is simply not that well known outside the United States, calling him a "Prodigious Soccer Talent" is the opinion of a couple people, not the collective whole. Thus i've changed the opening sentence to better reflect the standard for soccer players around the world. By saying he is a "Ghanaian born American soccer player." Any claims to fame should be included in the text following the introductory sentence and sourced if they are likely to cause controvery...like his talent, which is under constant debate. Batman2005 23:05, 30 March 2006 (UTC) Adu is well known all over the world, if you go to any international football forum and search for his name you will find plenty of articles. In addition, you clearly do not know the defintion of prodigy. A prodigy is a child who posseses enhanced abilities. A 24 year old (Adriano)A 27 year old (Michael Owen) and a 22 year old (Robinho) DO NOT COUNT AS A PRODIGIES!! Adriano, Robinho and Michael Owen are not 16 years old. The "debate" is what's known informally as "hating" is has no basis in reality, most of it comes out of a contempt for American Soccer and MLS. Adu is the youngest athlete of the modern era. He was player of the week twice and man of the match 5 times in a league that is considered on par with if not better than the coca-cola championship. He recently played in a World Charity match with stars such as Ronaldo and Zidane, in which he was one of the better players(if not the best performer on the team. He is being courted by Chelsea, Real Madrid, Inter Milan, PSV Einhoven and Manchester United. The only reason he has not signed with one of them is due to FIFA Rules against the international transfer of children, rules which arise due to his not having an EU passport. Your edits reflect your own personal ignorance and I will continue to revert them if you continue to make them. It's funny that you seem know nothing about Michael Owen. Do you know how old Owen was when he competed for England? And did you know anything about world cup 98 when Owen scored one of the all-time greatest goals against Agentina? Owen was starting for Liverpool at 17 and a world-wide super star when he was a teenager. Is Adu a "super star" now? He is not even a star in the moderate MLS...LOL. P.S. here are some more quotes for you, “His left foot is fantastic. It’s like Mozart. God gave Freddy the gift to play soccer. If he is prepared mentally and physically, nobody will stop him.” —Pele “A blind man on a galloping horse can see his talent. He’s a little Faberge egg.” —Former United coach Ray Hudson “He is the best young player in the world right now; not in the United States, in the world.” —MLS deputy commissioner Ivan Gazidis “He’s the first guy soccer’s had in America that transcends the game. He’s kind of like Tiger Woods.” —United vice president Doug Hicks "The 16-year-old Adu, regarded as the most sought-after young player in world football, plays for DC United in Washington ­ one of four football clubs, including the LA Galaxy, who are owned by the American company Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG)." [url]http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/premiership/story.jsp?story=684644[/url] look and its .co.uk it's from England!!!! happy now?Drsmoo 02:57, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I'll break this down for you one at a time. First off, you've shown your immaturity by calling me ignorant, but we'll let that slide. Second, You've offered NO sources that say that Adu is a soccer prodigy. I'm sorry, but you are not a source, your inclusion of this information is a violation of NPOV and Original Research. You further reflect your point of view by saying that the debate about his talent is merely "hating." However, you fail to reference the numerous articles ESPN.com has run from Greg Lalas, among others, questioning his ability, attitude, committment, and overall facility for playing against grown men. Third, your sad attempt to educate me on what a prodigy is was laughable, but lets get back to the real issue here. A user has requested a source for a piece of information that is controversial, you have failed to give it on two occasions now...the information should be removed until YOU can provide a reputable source specifically saying that Adu is a soccer prodigy. If you cannot, then it is Original Research, end of story. Nobody is doubting his credentials as man of the match...twice! WOW! or MLS player of the week. Your statement that he was one of the best players on the field with the likes of Zidane and Ronaldo further shows where your opinions are, but that's not important. Additionally, lets look again at the ESPN.com archives where both Sir Alex and Jose Murinho were quoted as saying that they have NO interest in Adu at this time, and haven't made inquiries into signing him to their clubs. If you can't provide sources for your PSV and Real claims, then I'll pass them off as original research too. A few quotes from Pele and MLS coaches does not equal a prodigy, a published source from a reputable soccer magazine, internet article, or a knowledgeable soccer expert specifically saying that he is a prodigy will suffice for me. I've asked for a source, not boyish attitude from you. If you can't provide a source then the information will be removed, if you continue to revert, I'll ask an administrator to step in and settle the dispute, which according to wikipedia guidelines about citing controversial information, you would surely lose. I suggest looking for a source calling him a prodigy, rather than arguing further, if you can find one, terrific, i'll be happy to repost the information myself, if not...it won't be included. Batman2005 03:45, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

what would you define as "proof" of him being a prodigy?Drsmoo 03:48, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Of course you can't 'prove' or 'disprove' that someone is a prodigy. All you can do is find supporting evidence. However, the fact that Adu was not able to be selected in the 2006 World Cup, to my mind anyway, suggests that the jury is still out on this question. --Alexxx1 ^{(talk/contribs)} 00:30, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

--His recent selection to the MLS All-Star squad, based on merit (he was not chosen last year), as a 17 year-old would say to reasonable observers that he is far advanced for his age. Sammyj 22 July 2006 Freddy Adu had a trial with Man Utd and was not good enough! I think that says he isnt as talented as this article makes him out 2 be. at least not yet it was a training stint, Ferguson said he impressed but they can't legally sign him untilhe turns 18. By all accounts he did very well. Drsmoo 20:25, 13 May 2007 (UTC) ` Anonimouse comment: MMM... A prodigy is a man or a woman who can do PRODIGIOUS THINGS. 18 goals in 118 matches its nothing that prodigious. An ITalian defender like Materazzi made more goals than him. Do you want a prodigy for real? Look at : Bojan, Pato, Balotelli, Paloschi, Arnautovich From 16 years old they were called Prodigy and they demonstrated it in every match they played in Liga / Serie A and Osterreich league. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.42.108.136 (talk) 12:19, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Freddy referred to as a prodigy

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,283-2028147,00.html

There you go, you were able to provide a source, now I have no problem with it being included in the article. I do, however, think that a better first sentence would read Freddy Adu (full name:Fredua Koranteng Adu) (born June 2, 1989 in Tema) is a Ghanaian born American soccer player who gained fame when, at the age of 14, he signed a professional contract with MLS, making him the youngest professional athlete in modern history. We could then include the prodigy information, with your newly acquired sources of course, in the paragraph about his soccer career. As i'm sure you'll agree, he's more notable for his youth at this point, than his talent. What are your thoughts? Batman2005 04:05, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't think you can prove someone is a prodigy, it isn't something that is based on facts, but opinions, if you do a google search as I did, you'll find tens of thousands of more articles labeling him a prodigy. And so with that, I think it's safe to say the widely held view is that he's a prodigy. I can't imagine a sensible way of putting a link to an article "confirming" he's a prodigy. Again, that is how he's known and that is how he has been labled in this article (not by me, I ddn't write it) for quite some time. Drsmoo 04:11, 31 March 2006 (UTC) How's that look? Batman2005 04:18, 31 March 2006 (UTC) Better, I think you should watch him play moreDrsmoo 04:19, 31 March 2006 (UTC) I do, constantly, and I spent a year of his career stationed in Europe, Afghanistan, and Iraq, and i'll tell you, you can walk down the street and say the name Freddy Adu, and most fans won't know who he is. Personally, i think he's a cry baby and would have been better served going through more of a developmental stage, rather than jumping in at 14 years old and playing against people twice his age. There's no doubting that some day he'll probably be a great player, but his maturity level isn't where it needs to be for club or country at the moment. Batman2005 04:23, 31 March 2006 (UTC) I'm not trying to prolong an argument but I saw a poll on an english site about american soccer, and I think 99% of englishmen in the poll knew who he was, and about 90% knew who landon donovan was. Drsmoo 04:33, 31 March 2006 (UTC) I think more would know who Donovan was if he hadn't totally sucked in Germany when he was over there the first time. I'd say the most famous American players at the moment in Europe are Kasey Keller and Tim Howard. Simply because Howards plays for a big name club and Keller has been around in a few different leagues in his long career. Batman2005 04:37, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

The most famous American players in Europe are Keller, Howard, Friedel and Adu, there's no two ways about it. I've never even seen Adu play, but I have heard of his talent at such a young age. He is a prodigy. Landon Donovan is moderately well-known, on a par with perhaps Reyna and Hahnemann. By the way, I'm from England. -- Boothman _/tɔːk/. 21:15, 27 May 2006 (UTC).

Adu will come and play for Olympiakos (Greece). They say that they offer more than 13 mill. euro.....

Freddy's youth deals with AC Milan and EPL clubs

Could someone provide source info for the assertions that Freddy turned down youth deals with AC Milan and EPL clubs? Streamless 14:07, 13 June 2006 (UTC) Try here. Sammyj 20:25, 15 June 2006 (EST) From what I understand, according to si.com, on June 26th, Freddy Adu will be leaving DC United for a contract to play for West Ham United in EPL. --DJ Citizen D 19:22, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Facts and speculations

It seems to me that this article states several things that can be questionable without citations from reputable sources. I have removed one item stating that he may be moving to Europe after an undisclosed MLS season for a deal with one of two clubs. There are still other items in this article that I think are questionable, for example: - "He has stated though that he is unsure who he will represent as an adult player--the U.S. or Ghana": this could be reworded, but I'm not sure if it is even necessary. I'll leave it in, but I vote for it to be removed. I have vandalized this page! Nobody deleted it! For shame, somebody sohuld have realized that Manchester United have made no such claim. Let this be a lesson to you!--86.142.92.126 22:23, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Adu, a Ghanaian

Freddy Adu is from Ghana, i fail to see how he magically became an American.

Well, if someone becomes a citizen of the United States, they may be called an American at that point. Or Ghanaian-born American, in Adu's case. Sammyj 02:31, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

To add to the above, there have been many sporting stars who have taken an identity as being from their adopted country. Hakeem Olajuwon, Owen Hargreaves, and Tab Ramos all come to mind. Further, people like Fereydoun Zandi and Mike Piazza have all competed for countries of co-citizenship even though they grew up in another.

In case you dont know adu will come to Olympiakos for 13mill. euro.

Noteworthiness of goals

There is a difference of opinion as to what is notable in Freddy Adu's life. Some believe that his skills at the penalty spot are not. Some believe that dataing JoJo, whoever that is, is not. These are points of view. It may be argued that at this early stage in his career, his 100% (to the best of my knowledge) proficiency from the penalty spot in the pro game is noteworthy. That is a POV as well. However, the actual made PKs is not a POV, but a fact. The Wikipedia is full of facts, some less and some more "meaningful" than these PK stats. This data will be useful to some and, obviously and apparently, not to others. Sammyj 11:46, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

My contention is that Penalty Shootout goals result in nothing meaningful to a players overall goal tally. They do not count towards career goals or towards any sort of golden shoe or top scorer type awards. It is a worthless bit of trivia. I've done some quick searching and have been able to find no other footballers who list shootout goals. In fact, on the World Cup 2006 page, the shootout goals was removed several times from the "Scorers" list as being non notable. Additionally, you can't claim "POV" when there is a dispute over inclusion of content, POV refers to inserting information that is opinion. Deleting information as non noteworthy is not doing so out of POV, but rather out of disbute for content. Editors should work towards consensus in their edits, which is what the purpose of this discussion is. WP:BRD dictates that you should 1) be bold and insert information as you did. 2) Wait for it to be reverted, as it was. 3) DO NOT REVERT, but discuss on the talk page why you feel the information should be included. You've thus far, twice, disregarded official wikipedia policy and reinserted the information. Wikipedia is about consensus, as of now, the consensus is against including the information that you initially added. Readding it will be seen as editing against consensus which is construed as vandalism. Batman2005 13:43, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

You have not addressed my point that although the PKs may be trivial in general, at this point in Adu's career, his PKs further substantiate his level of competence. You are speaking in generalities - I am talking to the specifics of Adu's career as he was chosen by the manager, over more experienced players, for the responsibility. Maybe this nuance should be added in addition to the actual goals. Likely in a few years, the information will be appropriately removed or rephrased. Sammyj 14:04, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

^^ That is purely POV. Being chosen to take a penalty substantiates his level of competence? Some of the best players in the world are terrible at penalty kicks. Some of the worst players in the world are excellent at penalty kicks. The stat has zero meaning. The shots taken and scored in penalty shootouts do not count towards any awards. Precedent has been set with numerous other pages (see World Cup 2006) where everytime shootout goals were added, they were deleted for being not noteworthy. The inclusion of such information has been repeatedly shot down on wikipedia. A better solution would be, in the main body of the article, to include something such as "Adu has been frequently chosen to take spot kicks during penalty shootouts, and has yet to miss" or something along those lines, perhaps providing a source for the "has yet to miss" claim, as it really does need a source. But listing them in statistical form is entirely inappropriate and as far as I can tell, the is the only page where it was done that way, and as I said earlier...it had been shot down several times on other pages. Batman2005 14:37, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

DC United has been only involved in 2 penalty kick shoot-outs over the past year (11/6/04 4-3 win over New England in the MLS play-offs and 8/24/05 1-4 loss to FC Dallas in the US Open Cup). Freddy was successful both times. How would you suggest referencing that- box score URLs? I'll borrow from your phrasing- "Adu has been chosen to take spot kicks during DC United's two penalty shootouts, and has not missed." Sammyj 15:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC) . P.S. Who would you consider goal scorers that are poor PK takers?

David Beckham is historically unsuccessful on Penalties, he converts some, yet misses quite a few. David Trezequet doesn't take penalties well, and not just the one in the world cup. Batman2005 19:45, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Becks converted all of his untill he lost his confidense vs turkey, then missed two in the euros, he no longer takes them.

I don't really see the point of including goals from friendlies. Or havinog a list of goals at all. How many other players on this site have that? It's just not something that belongs in an encyclopedia. And yes, shootouts goals are not noteworthy. He did miss at the WYC, too. Batman2005 seems to know a lot about how to construct a proper article, so I would suggest that you guys listen to him. --Scaryice 04:16, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The encyclopedia contains lots of lists. I would argue that this list for Adu is relevant at the time given his age and interest in and discussions about what he is accomplishing. A goal in a friendly (and maybe especially against a top-notch foreign team) is just as interesting in this regard. Personally, I would love to see lists of goals for famous players before that information is lost to time. My discussions above with Batmann2005 centered on listing PKs, which we compromised on. He may not be excited by this list, but has let it stand til now. Sammyj 17:45, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

JoJo

I've seen that info been on and off the article. Can someone put the source of the article if there was a break-up. I haven't been aware of any break-up article on the main networks (CNN, TSN, CTV, etc) and I haven't noticed anything abotu it on Google search (as of Friday October 6). I've tagged it on the JoJo article requiring a citation. I may have miss it, but one should put the dating and if break-up indeed, mention it with source. Thank you!--JForget 21:48, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand why people keep erasing it. I haven't heard anything about a breakup though. --Awiseman 22:06, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

This is so frustrating, people keep deleting it. Here's a post article that says it. [1]. If this keeps happening I'm going to ask for protection on the article. --Awiseman 16:55, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Again, don't delete it. This is ridiculous. I made a new personal life section, hopefully that will stay. --AW 10:05, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

That post article doesnt say anything about them breaking up... but Im not gonna delete it because you will probably just put it back up and ask for protection for no reason.Zib 05:42, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah uh, that article actually says there still together, so...-jakej Euh! The article here doesn't said they are uncoupled [2]--JForget 03:46, 24 January 2007 (UTC) I think that Olympiakos will buy Adu for 17 million euro or something.

Age

Am no wikipedia user but I just want to notice that it says to the right of the page under picture that he is 37 years old? Must be an error there cus it says hes born in 1969 instead of 1989. As i check what was written inside the article i saw it had 1989 on those lines.. So how come it says 1969 then? If someone could fix this it would be nice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.167.33.134 (talk • contribs)

Im think it would be fair to say that questions about his 'real age' have followed him his whole career.

"In Africa, the player who does not lower his age cannot be professional [in Europe], it's a reality." - Guirane N'Daw, former Senegalese international player. https://www.kickoff.com/news/articles/world-news/categories/news/african-football/guirane-n-daw-confesses-age-cheating-claims-99-of-senegal-footballers-are-guilty/674139 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.185.200 (talk) 11:04, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Eligibility for Ghana

"He has so far played only one friendly international for the USA men's national team, and until he appears in a competitive international match, is still eligible to switch allegiances and play for Ghana." - I'm not an expert, but I don't think this is how this works. There are several players who play at u-21 level for one country and are not allowed to change later on. A cap is a cap, regardless whether it was a freindly or not. I remember reading somewhere FIFA had a kind of amnesty, where u-21 capped players could switch, but the deadline has long since passed. In my opinion Adu is now limited to the USA team only. Grunners 18:27, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

That's totally incorrect. Until a player appears in a competitive match for a country they can switch at any time. If a 30 year old Mexican American plays in friendly matches for Mexico and then is offered a spot with the USA team he is allowed to play for that team. Of course the player must have citizenship in both countries, but once a player plays in a competitive match, they are tied to that team for good. Since Adu only played in a friendly he could still play for Ghana if he wanted. Batman2005 03:00, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

69.113.135.51 06:15, 25 November 2006 (UTC)actually no, the match Adu played in was an A international. According to Fifa rules, if you play in an A international, you're cap-tied. You're totally wrong, Adu is not tied to the United States team. If he were then ESPN and Fox Soccer Channel would NOT be reporting that Michael Essien is STILL trying to get him to play for Ghana. Adu is still eligible to play for either country. Check your facts bud. Batman2005 02:52, 26 November 2006 (UTC) 69.113.135.51 14:30, 26 November 2006 (UTC) These are the facts, the rules for being cap tied are as follows. Play in an A-international with a national team. Adu has done that, according to the rules, he is captied. It seems Michael Essien does not know these rules. I think people think that because the Canada match wasn't on T.V. it wasn't a "proper" match, it was. There was a crowd and everything but T.V. We'll just go with the knowledge that you don't know what you're talking about. First off the game was on TV, I sat on my couch and watched it. Secondly i'll choose to believe the various commentators and pundits who clearly state that Adu can still switch, as well as referencing the FIFA website clearly shows that you are wrong. Batman2005 16:17, 26 November 2006 (UTC) 204.193.129.160 03:23, 27 November 2006 (UTC)First of all, the U.S. vs Canada match in which Adu played was not on T.V. It was on TV, and I just popped the DVD of it I recorded into the DVD player and, lo and behold there is Freddy Adu entering the game. Hmmm. Interesting, how do I have the DVD of the game if it wasn't on TV...wow, i'm good. 75.2.9.78 03:38, 27 November 2006 (UTC) Second of all, here are the official FIFA rules for a player to be cap-tied. http://www.fifa.com/documents/static/regulations/Statutes_09_2005_EN.pdf p. 60. Article 15 Principle 1 Any person holding the nationality of a country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of his country. The Executive Committee shall decide on the conditions of eligibility for any Player who assumes a new nationality and for whom par. 3 of this article does not apply, or for any Player who would, in principle, be eligible to play for the teams of more than one Association due to his nationality. 2 As a general rule, any Player who has already represented one Association (either in full or in part) in an official competition of any category may not play an international match with another Association team. 3 If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if the Player is eligible to play for several Association teams due to his nationality, the following exceptions apply: (a) Up to his 21st birthday, a player may only once request changing the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches. 'A Player may exercise this right to change Associations only if he has not played at “A" international level for his current Association and if at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition of any other category, he already had such nationalities. Changing Associations is not permitted during the preliminary competition of a FIFA competition, continental championship or Olympic Tournaments if a player has already been fielded in a match of one of these competitions. ' http://www.fifa.com/en/mens/results/resultsindex.html?currPage=24 the January 22nd match in which Adu played will be listed. On the bottom of the page it saysNOTE: List of FIFA "A" Matches available from 01-01-1985,and will be updated weekly. This compilation includes all matches which were notified to FIFA by the national associations. Due to non-compliance in some cases, this list may not be complete(not complete as in their may be A matches not on the list, the USA- Canada match is on the list of A matches however) Additionally on this site http://www.rdasilva.demon.co.uk/football.html the USA- Canada match is listed under "2006 All 'A' Internationals" and btw, is there any way you can rip that game with adu playing to the computer? I'd like to see Adu's first national team match. There was a torrent made of the radio call of the game. Because the match was not on T.V. Though maybe it was on T.V. if you say it was. I'd just like to see it.

Do we have any kind of an independent article discussing FIFA regs on player nationality, the history of nationality and dual nationality in football, and issue of "mercenaries" (and accusations of such), and so on? I'm starting to think we should start a co-operative article along the lines of Nationality in football (soccer) if there isn't something similar already. Bill Oaf 03:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

controversy section

Hi, i edited the Controversy section to make it have no point of view in it. If you feel it is still expressing point of view please edit it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Olir (talk • contribs)

The section isn't sourced, which is why I removed it - thus it appears to be your opinion. You can't say things like "many fans believe..." unless you have a valid source. I am going to remove it again, and please don't add it back unless you have sources for that section. See your talk page for more about this please. --AW 18:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Ive added a couple of references, not sure how to make them neat.Olir 18:20, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the attempt to reference the section (and for signing your post). However, they don't really say what the section does - they don't say anything about him being "stolen" by rich countries, nor do they say anything like "Many fans believe this to be a fast growing deadly problem that international football is going to face". I appreciate your efforts, but the section as it's written now doesn't belong. Sorry. --AW 19:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Real Salt Lake

Wasn't Adu traded to Real Salt Lake? Zarif 00:54, 12 December 2006 (UTC) yesUser:Jakejose

Nowak

Was it Nowak's own assertion that Ajax has an established youth academy as opposed to Manchester United, or is it the view of the author(s)? I feel that this isn't made clear. Also, I think that anybody can see that Manchester United has a youth academy to match any other, making the assertion somewhat dubious.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 137.222.10.113 (talk • contribs). I agreeJake22 03:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC) I would disagree, I think Ajax and Arsenal have the most renowned academies, then there is very much a medium among the top class teams, and a few fallen teams such as Forest and Southampton who still have their esteemed academies. Anon

"Is regarded as" vs "has been called"

In my mind, "is regarded as" is a loaded with pov. Is regarded as by whom? The author of the source? Well, just because somebody wrote it, doesn't make it so. If somebody wrote that "Freddy Adu is the best player to ever play the game" we SURELY would not post that here. We would say "according to _______ blah, blah, blah." This case is no different. An author has said that Adu is "regarded as one of the most exciting young players in the world," I don't care if we include it...but we can't simply say that he "is regarded as...." because that's textbook pov. A better solution would be to post the authors name and say "according to so and so..." or "has been called..." to eliminate pov and bias. I can guarantee you that I can find as many sources saying that Adu is overhyped and not nearly as good as he was made out to be...yet if those were added Drsmoo would delete them immediately and claim I was pushing my pov. I have pushed NO pov in my edits...I have merely acted to eliminate the pov from the existing article. I highly doubt that Drsmoo will engage in any legitimate or constructive discussion here, so perhaps others will have opinions as we work towards a consensus and not just Drsmoo's way or the highway. Batman2005 23:58, 13 May 2007 (UTC) The Sources who say he's overhyped tend to be people like Darrenn Rovell who admit to never watching MLS. You can ask the Celtic defense whether they think he's overhyped. Or the celtic fans on their forum who said he was too good to sign with them(a champions league team) after he played them. Maybe Alex Ferguson. Or the Brazillian U-20 team who lined up for his autograph after their U-20 match. Or the La Liga red who requested his autograph when Salt Lake played the Real Madrid reserves. Or when he played in a world charity match, the youngest player selected and the best performer on Team Ronaldo. Anyway I changed it to something less POV which is accurate. Drsmoo 01:31, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

• I agree with the first poster (Batman) in his assertion that the way it is currently is POV. I would also say that it is blatant agenda pushing, we're basically asserting that wikipedia only accepts this person's opinion on Adu by saying that he is "regarded" and not "has been called" or "(authors name) believes that..." I believe that, in these situations, where the material is highly divisive, to show WHERE the quotation is coming from. Saying that he is "widely regarded" is original research. Just as your (Drsmoo) examples given above. My reccomendation would be to put something such as "Adu has been called one of the most exciting young players in the world by (insert the authors name)". Additionally, I think Batman should seek to include some other information, which would serve to tone down the overall POV/fanpage atmosphere on this page. I too have read quite a few articles which state that Adu is overrated and overhyped. Those should be added to balance out the article. 208.40.242.41 01:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Please sign your comment with four tildes, or be a registered user, not just an IP adress, thanks. Drsmoo 01:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC) Wow! What do you know, Batman2005 sends me a message, and then this Ip sends me a message that he's commented, and thinks Batman2005 is right and Batman 2005 should make more changes. Batman2005 is from Indiana, 208.40.242.41 happens to be from Indiana too, Batman2005 is in university and lives in Indiana, 208.40.242.41 is from the same location as Indiana University, what a coincidence! Drsmoo 02:07, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

• First off Smoo there is no rule against being an IP editor and not being a registered user. Secondly, I am in CARMEL, INDIANA. IU is in BLOOMINGTON....roughly 100 miles away. Just because Iam from Indiana...and so is another user does not mean that we are one in the same. Rather than lobbing thinly vieled personal attacks at me. You'll also notice that I agreed in part with YOUR point as well as Batmans point. Until wikipedia requires all users to be registered, i'll continue to edit in any way I see fit. Perhaps instead of leaving these attack messages, you should look at things objectively and try to consider anothers point of view. 208.40.242.41 04:16, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not attacking you, I'm just pointing our how curious it is that Batman2005(who lives in Indiana, and posts alot on Wikipedia) leaves a comment on my discussion page that he's going to make a topic. An hour later someone who seems to know many of the rules of Wikipedia, yet from contribution history has never edited before, (nothing but what he posted on my discussion and in this discussion) just comes straight from the start posting about the rules. and from the same state as Batman2005, posts in my discussion section that he's commented here(why?) and not on Batman2005(the guy who made this topic and would probably be more interested)'s board. And agreeing with Batman completely and saying he should do more. Also calling me "smoo" is weird as well. Drsmoo 05:42, 14 May 2007 (UTC) I also think it's curious that I'm over 70% water Drsmoo 06:16, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, we should remember to Assume good faith. With regards to these being 208.40.242.41's first edits, I should suggest the possibility that the user has a dynamic I.P. I, for example, have my IP change every time I connect to the internet. I would rather it not be that way, but it is beyond my control, so if I ever make an edit signed out by accident, the chances are it appears that it was my first ever signed-out edit.

Right. Now, onto the subject at hand.

I must admit I am a fan of Adu, and have been following his progress for years. He is certainly one of the most well-known young players in the world right now, and there is a lot of buzz about everything he does. Consider LA Galaxy. It is gaining a lot of press right now because of the whole Beckham thing. Indeed, outside of the US, it is probably the most well-known MLS team at the moment. Does that mean it is also the best? No.

So, it is important to make the distinction on whether he is the best, or whether certain people consider him the best. To say that he is "regarded as one of the most exciting young players in the world", and then to provide just one source for that, is ridiculous. If I provided one source saying Michael Ricketts is one of the best players in England, would I be able to say that he "is regarded as one of the best players in England"? Probably not.

What I would be able to do, and what perhaps should be done here is something along these lines:

Adu is regarded by some/many as one of the most promising young players in the world. [references 1, 2, 3 e.t.c.]

The word "Exciting" is not something that had been mentioned above, but it is inherently POV (and ambiguous). Not every person who likes football finds people who run a lot exciting. Some people prefer accurate long passes, or long shots, e.t.c.

The word should be changed to "promising", which is a lot less ambiguous. I will make that change after this post, I think.

But the more references that can be found for him being one of the most promising, the better. There are a lot of young players in the world right now, and Adu's progress has slowed down a bit in the past couple of years. There are now a lot of players that could be considered more promising, such as Kerlon, Nicolás Millán, Gonzalo Higuaín, Marcelo, Theo Walcott, Andrés Guardado, Aaron Lennon, Oscar Ustari, Carlos Vela, Sergio Agüero, and so on. --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 07:42, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

The reference provided[3] is over a year old, and one of the article's authors subsequently wrote a more measured assessment of Adu in the same publication[4]. The hype has died down over the past year,[5] to the extent that at present commentators and the media are portraying him only as one the most promising young players in the MLS: [6] [7]. The lead ought to reflect this. Also, we need to be careful to avoid presenting opinions without ascribing them to a source, per WP:WEASEL. --Muchness 08:22, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

What's ironic about the "hype dying down this past year" is that this year he's done extremely well against Celtic, well against Real Madrid, impressed Man Utd. And is playing well in MLS. Your link doesn't work, but the cached article is is wrong as Ferguson said Manutd is tracking Adu they can't sign him until he's 18 they said he impressed and theyll watch him. Most foreign commentators don't know American players without Eu passports can't sign in Europe until they're 18 and don't watch MLS and ,and niether do most domestic commentators. You see an article from a bbc writer saying Adu is a prodigy, than a year later saying maybe he's not he hasn't signed in Europe, yet the guy hadn't watched an mls game when he praised him and hadn't watched an MLS game when he dissed him. Darren Rovell writes that Adu is a failure because he isn't on sportscenter enough. That his only basis of critique as he admits that he doesn't watch MLS. A scholarly article shouldn't cite anyone's opinion. It should just present facts. We don't need to say, some people regard him as one of the most exciting prospects. It should say, the 17 year old scored and showed his skill against the first string of champions league celtic. Rather than use an opinion to say he a top prospect use facts. We don't need to cite anyones opinions. Drsmoo 07:40, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I just thought I'd mention that I have, just now, been able to access each link in Muchness' post without issue. Perhaps the one you mentioned as not working is inaccessible to US IP addresses? --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 07:57, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Drsmoo, please see the WP:NPOV policy, which states: "All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view (NPOV), representing fairly and without bias all significant views (that have been published by reliable sources)." Citing viewpoints from reliable sources to represent significant views about a subject is a fundamental principle of Wikipedia. The problem with article in its current for is that it is representing one viewpoint ("Adu is regarded by many as one of the most promising young players in the world"), substantiated by an outdated reference. --Muchness 08:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

look at the Ronaldinho article, nothing about him being regarded was one of the best players in the world, it says how he's won World player of the year. Facts rather than opinions. Perhaps we should include that Adu was nominated for FIFPRO young player of the year in 2005(in 2006 there were only 5 nominations) If we want to use opinions, we could use this more recent one http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=7237 Drsmoo 08:53, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

"Perhaps we should include that Adu was nominated for FIFPRO young player of the year in 2005"

Yes! That would be perfect, especially if we link to a list of those nominations, possibly from the FIFPro website.

I think the problem most of us had is that saying that he is exciting or whatever is POV (inherently, it is an opinion), and as User:Muchness says, our articles should strive to have a Neutral point of view, and (in an ideal article), citations for every statement. Just look at the amount of references in any featured article. So yes, if you want to include that he was nominated for FIFPro Young Player of the year in 2005, feel free to include it. And likewise, if he won/was nominated for any other reputable awards, those could be included too. :) --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 10:17, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Saying that he "showed his skill against celtic" is pov too. The article should contain ONLY facts. If we say he was nominated for an award, it shouldn't say "due to his skill and whatever else he was nominated for _________." It should say "Adu was nominted for ________." Additionally, Drsmoo...he wasn't THAT good against Madrid, and if he had so impressed Man Utd, he would be being mentioned in their transfer plans....in fact, if you read past articles on several Man Utd fansites, you'll see that Adu was not THAT impressive during his two-week trial. But, you're probably totally unwilling to look at anything Adu related objectively. Batman2005 22:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

All I said was that he played well against Real Madrid. He beat 3 defenders including Roberto Carlos to set up a goal. You insulted me on my discussion page, and said I wouldn't hold a civil argument(for some reason.) Now you're insulting me here. he can't be in transfer plans as they can't sign him until he's 18. Anything he did sign would be non binding and worthless. It was a training stint, and both Ferguson and Adu commented that it went well and that they would monitor him. They are the only official sources to comment. I didn't see any articles based on anything substantive in any Manutd sites. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Drsmoo (talk • contribs).

Well Drsmoo, take your own advice and sign your posts...i'm sure you know how. You appear to be the only one impressed that he played well against a Celtic team with nothing to play for, a Real Madrid team that was as disinterested in the game as I've ever seen in my entire life. And no, I didn't insult you...apparently I was exactly right. You've proven yourself both unable to hold a civil discussion and/or accept anothers viewpoint. There is overwhelming support here for my viewpoint that saying that he is widely regarded as anything is pov. Why can't you just admit you were wrong and get over yourself? Batman2005 13:02, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

You can see the Celtic fans reactions. They were certainly impressed http://www.talkceltic.net/forum/celtic-chat/11663-celtic-vs-dc-united-offical-thread-4-threads-merged.html http://www.talkceltic.net/forum/celtic-chat/11836-celtic-after-adu.html

I've been nothing but civil in this discussion. If you had read my comment, you would see that I don't think there should be any opinions on this article,only facts. An example of what I'm talking about would be the Ronaldinho article. As I said before a scholarly article should cite concrete facts. We don't need to say, some people regard him as one of the most exciting prospects. Rather than use an opinion to show his status as a prospect, use facts. The Ronaldinho article doesn't state that Ronaldinho is considered one of the best players in the world. (the same with the Christiano Ronaldo article) It shows that through facts . this article should do the same. There should be as little POV as possible. Drsmoo 16:27, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Drsmoo, perhaps you forgot that there is a huge difference between a fan on a website, and a manager.Batman2005 23:35, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

um, lol? Drsmoo 00:38, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't you be off pushing your pov on other pages and being proven wrong over and over again like you were here? Batman2005 02:25, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

As you can see I've already improved the article (and embarrassed you in argument) and it's been accepted. Vent your frustrations elsewhere please. Drsmoo 02:57, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Embarassed me? How, by proving that you were totally wrong that so many people came to the page and shot you down time and time again? You said the sentence wasn't POV, yet person after person showed that it was. YOU are the one who was embarassed Drsmoo. After trying, unsuccessfully to accuse me of sockpuppetry, then by claiming the sentence wasn't pov, then by finally bowing to the overwhelming majority of people who stood up to shoot you down....how is that embarassing to me? I fail to see Drsmoo, perhaps you can let me borrow the rose-colored glasses you wear. Batman2005 04:19, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

You know someone's nuts when they thinks he's won an argument in which at the end the other posters congratulate the "opposition." I never disagreed with you about the page being POV, and in fact took it a step further. With regards to Celtic and Madrid you were making stuff up and exposed for doing so. I think with the massive amount of time you spend on Wikipedia, you have lost touch with reality. Drsmoo 05:11, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I wonder how I missed this misguided, ridiculous, and flat out false dribble from Drsmoo. Show me Drsmoo what I made up about Celtic and Madrid, and where I was exposed for doing so. Batman2005 00:15, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I think we should revise the article, and fill it with as many facts, and as few POV things as possible. Drsmoo 17:09, 16 May 2007 (UTC) I've made edits in an attempt to remove POV and extraneous information, and leave as many facts as possible. Feel free to revert or change obviously. Drsmoo 17:24, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Good job. Added something back but more informative about trip to Italy. AlbertHall 17:49, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, those edits were excellent Drsmoo. As you say, you removed the POV stuff and opinions, and added in purely factual stuff, some of which even I didn't know (such as the captaining of the U20 team in the 2007 CONCACAF U20 Tournament). It might also be worth mentioning in the article that he scored 2 goals in the final qualifying game, against Panama, which is mentioned in the tournament article, linked above.

But yes, good work. :) --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 19:09, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

drsmoo - surely if he was truly the prodigous talent you make him up to be, Adu would be absolutely tearing up the MLS, which is at best the 10th or so strongest league in the world? I'm not saying he isn't a solid, useful player there - which at 17 years old is quite an achievement in itself - but at roughly his age the likes of Michael Owen, Ryan Giggs, Francesco Totti, Gianluigi Buffon, Lionel Messi, Wayne Rooney, Valeri Bojinov, Paolo Maldini and more were all having a much greater impact in much stronger leagues - variously Serie A, La Liga and the English Premier League. They are the sort of player most people think of as 'prodigies' - can you honestly say Freddy Adu, good as he is, is on the same level as a single one of those players was as a teenager? of course you can't, it simply isn't the case. I'm aware that there was a lot of media hype and speculation surrounding Adu since he was about 13 years old, but many players get hyped up at that age and a lot of them don't make it - Joe Cole is an excellent player but it took him nearly a decade to shrug off the 'overhyped' tag - Cherno Samba at 14 was, like Adu, 'the next Pele' - now he's about the 6th choice striker at my club, Plymouth Argyle. Adu got marginally more hype than those guys globally because the USA is simply not where the footballing world traditionally expects such young talent to emerge - while in england or spain there's a new wonderkid every 18 months or so. If Freddy Adu is a 'Prodigous Soccer Talent' what does that make Scott Sinclair - a better player in the same position, at the same age - whose achievements have come in the 2nd tier of English football - streets ahead of the MLS in every respect? And if Sinclair is at some level above 'Prodigous Soccer Talent' - how can we even begin to quantify the skill of Messi, Rooney, or Pele himself who won a bloody World Cup, leading the line in Brazil's awesome 1958 team as a 17-year old. If you can't do a better job backing up what seems to be a blatant attempt to devalue 'prodigous' with relation to professional sports (again, Adu is very very good for his age - but there are without doubt hundreds of 17-year-olds worldwide roughly as good) I suggest you back down until you have a much better knowledge of and respect for the game of football in a global sense. seriously - you're bringing CHARITY GAMES into this! Adu wasn't the first American player to recieve lots of hype. If you recall, Landon Donovan was MVP at the U-17 World Championships in 1999, and later best young player at the 2002 World Cup. So he was also a young American player who showed his skill early. With Adu, being an American DEFINITELY contributed to the hype and the press, it's much more of a story to have it with an American player. Especially as the time Adu began emerging was around the time of the 2002 world cup. However Adu would have been notible even if he wasn't an American. For example, as is stated in the article, at the age of 10, he was top scorer and MVP in a u-14 tournament with the top teams in Italy. He was offered 750,000 to sign a contract with Milan. Alot of money to offer a 10 year old. At the age of 13 and 14, he was doing very well against the top U-18 teams in Europe. He had a goal and an assist against the Manchester United U-18 team for example and a hat trick against Blackburn. And had 4 goals in the U-17 World Cup as a just turned 14 year old. These would have been very notable even if he wasn't American. The championship is not a better league than MLS according to players who have played in both MLS and Europe Bobby Convey-Reading and former DC United "Players in MLS are more skillful but there's more pressure to win here." Darryl Powell-former Nottingham Forest, Portsmouth, Derby, Birmingham, Sheffield Wednesday, and Colorado Rapids "Technically the MLS is better than the Championship." Youri Djorkaeff "Sometimes the games are the level of the top divisions in Europe but sometimes they are more like the second divisions." I think you should check the ages of some of those players you listed. Because at Adu's current age most(except for Rooney) hadn't even set foot on a professional pitch with the first team(let alone been an All-star) Adu has had alot of impact, for instance, he was clearly the best player on the pitch in his last MLS game,(on the field with U.S. national team players like Pablo Mastroeni) last season he was a legitimate All-Star at the age of 16/17. Good passing, vision, skill. He was the best player on the pitch against the first string Celtic squad last season, you can say it was just a friendly, but Christiano Ronaldo got signed by Manchester United because of how he played in a friendly(Adu can't sign with a European team until he turns 18 which is on June 2). Had it been for example, an unknown 17 year old, he would certainly have become known after that. 2 days ago he was the best player on the field against the Argentina U-20 squad (http://media.putfile.com/U20-USA-vs-Argentina-Second-Half). If you can find me a hundred 17 year olds who could put together highlights like this http://youtube.com/watch?v=kpRkuOwLOO4 (and this isn't including the stuff he's done so far this season) in a pro league, i'd be very surprised. He's grown alot in his game as well, learned to have a right foot, improved of the ball runs, dribbling, quickness, crossing and holding off defenders. When the U-20 team which he captains had a friendly against the U-17 side(players his own age) he was very effective. I think the main thing is that people don't rate MLS, and so don't rate any of the players in it. Keep in mind that McBride was more effective in the EPL than he was in MLS, many times he makes great passes which aren't put away by his teammates. Adu has proven himself when he's played against top competition, hopefully after the U20 cup Adu and Altidore(another great prospect for the U.S.) will start playing more for the national team. Drsmoo 06:06, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Jean Carlos Chera? He is better than Adu

drsmoo - some of that is factually wrong. Adu is 17 now. every single player on my list there made their debut between the ages of 15 (Bojinov) and 17. Every one of them acheived this at one of the top 20 clubs in the world, with the exceptions of Bojinov (who was only 15 and in a Lecce team with plenty of quality forwards) and Rooney (Everton were a mid-table Premiership side hampered by weak finances - still with a much bigger and better squad than DC United). I'm in no way denying that Adu is a good player, there's no need to keep saying 'he had a great game last week' or 'x aspect of his game is improving' - we know, and it's impressive. But you seem to be under the delusion that being able to hang with, and sometimes outperform the likes of Pablo Mastroeni - a reasonable utility player who has got pretty far in the game via his excellent work ethic and stamina, is somehow better than, let alone equal to, the players who were genuine prodigies in their teens. At 17, Maldini was matching Baresi, the world's best defender most weeks. At 17, Ryan Giggs was keeping then England-international Lee Sharpe out of the team, playing a key role for Wales - who in the early 90s had Southall, Rush, Hughes etc and were comparable in quality to the USA team Adu can't yet establish himself in. Francesco Totti at 16 was a regular in Roma's matchday squad and talked about as the man they'd build the team around - they did and won the league. don't tell me to 'check their ages' - Rooney wasn't even the youngest of that lot to get his big break - you are simply 100% wrong and 2 minutes of research could have told you that.

You suggest i find '100 players with highlights like that'? how many defenders or holding midfielders even get 'highlight videos' on youtube and the like? Considering every one of the greatest sides in history has had between 3 and 6 key squad members whose job is to be quietly efficient, to perform their role consistently letting the flair players score the goals, beat their man, etc. Seriously, you're trying to win an argument about 'best young footballers', not 'best young midfield flair players' with YOUTUBE VIDEOS - highlight videos at that! by your token, someone like Harry Kewell - brilliant for two minutes a game, useless, lazy and unfit for 88 minutes, is a better player than Gennaro Gattuso, with less technical ability and far less flair but who does their job to a world class level every single game. Youtube highlight videos don't show mistakes, going by them no-one could tell if Adu makes none or if he makes 50 per game!

Honestly, i'm trying to understand your points of view here and the one constant is that you seem to overvalue pure technical ability. Clearly, those aspects of the game are Adu's primary strengths. It's also something that IS very prevalent in the MLS - which has steadily improved from a total joke to a decent, competitive league. You really seem to have taken those quotes from Convey, Powell, and Djorkaeff massively out of context - they are saying that the MLS has a greater emphasis on technical skill than the Championship (well, Djorkaeff isn't even saying that as he's never played in the Championship at all, but don't let facts get in the way eh?). Different leagues have different metagames - English football is usually more direct and physically demanding, Spanish football slightly more flowing, until recently Italian football was very stop-start with a more defensive mentality etc etc. that doesn't mean that Spanish football is better than English because there's more obvious technical wizardry, nor that English football is better due to a higher implied standard of athleticism. HENCE why a big, powerful, hard-working striker like McBride does well in a harder league while Cobi Jones, DaMarcus Beasley etc have been abject failures out here, and why Landon Donovan kept failing miserably in Germany and had a TERRIBLE world cup. The main reason a league is perceived as strong is when players in their prime want to move there FROM good leagues. To put it simply, the VAST majority of championship players would easily find a roster slot on an MLS club, while MLS players beyond each clubs main core of 4-8 key players would simply have to drop further down the football pyramid to find first team action. Adu, of course, would find a good English club no problem - but if you think it's more impressive for him to play well against your average MLS right-back than your average Championship right-back you are deluded. I'll bring it up again before you do - exhibition games are not meaningful. Games Adu plays well in against his own age group DO count for something, but not as much as you think - 17 and 18 year olds might be in their physical prime but your average 28 year old pro will be much harder to play against in every single respect. His MLS performances are much more impressive than his youth internationals - but when he's good enough to be part of the good, but not great, US national team can he even think about a big move to the clubs where Rooney, Giggs, Totti, Maldini will have already had near 100 games under their belt. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.189.5.221 (talk • contribs)blp=yes.

"You really seem to have taken those quotes from Convey, Powell, and Djorkaeff massively out of context - they are saying that the MLS has a greater emphasis on technical skill"

I think the overall theme between Powell and Convey's comments is that the players in MLS are technically better. But due to money, prestige and attention, there is more incentive to win in the Championship. This is very likely. And it's one of the problems with MLS.You'll also see, if you watch both, that in addition to his comments. Convey was much much more effective an dangerous in the Championship than he was in MLS. I'm trying to rationalize your comment on Donovan. When he started in Germany, he was 16. When he came back, he didn't want to play there, played well in all except the one game against Liverpool(in fact I was reading Leverkusen message boards and they rated him very highly) Donovan left because he wanted to be in California. Also Adu's MLS performances aren't better than his youth national team performances. (he was also rated the best player on the pitch on BBC during the game against Italy in the World Cup.

I stand corrected regarding the ages of the players you mentioned. I'm trying to rationalize how being an All-Star is not more than being a "solid, useful player" Or being very often the best player on the field. It seems the basis of the argument is, other players were playing well in Europe at this age. Adu CANNOT legally play in Europe right now. When he's gotten his chance against top players, he's impressed. You can say it's just a friendly, but that's not a fair argument, as players have been signed based on their performances in friendlies (Adu can't be signed for another month) There's no point in continuing a lengthy argument. This June will be the U-20 World Cup. And After that, Adu will be in Europe soon enough. Time will tell far more than this argument will. Drsmoo 17:06, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm gonna weigh in with this. Adu isn't even the most promising AMERICAN 17-19 year old prospect at this point. See Jozy Altidore and Michael Bradley. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that Altidore and Bradley have more of an impact on soccer, and the Senior National Team, than Adu ever will. Batman2005 23:42, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Interesting that you should weigh in with clear POV given your disdain for POV outlined above. And of course, what is your POV worth as you state on your user page: "And I think Freddy Adu sucks." AlbertHall 00:51, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

My disdain for POV is confined solely to the actual article of the subject. I'm weighing in with my opinion, which is what this discussion centered around, not pov as you wrongly asserted that it was. As for what my OPINION is worth, about as much as yours is, and any other. No, I don't like Freddy Adu, i'm a substance man, not a hype man...when Adu actually lives up to ANY of the hype he and others have created...then I'll give him credit. I think it's all too telling that he was left off the Gold Cup roster and has YET to be called into a single meaningful national team camp, even when prospects of the same age group (Spector and Bradley) have been. Adu isn't even one of the top 11 players in MLS right now. What Adu needs to do is quit making commercials, quit doing interviews for teams he'll never have a chance of playing for (Real Madrid), quit worrying about JoJo, and simply train harder to actually become a consistent, solid performer. Batman2005 00:14, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I could be wrong, but aren't Bradley and Spector about 2 and three years older than Adu? There are significant developmental differences at those ages. Who would put Adu in their age group? Just curious.AlbertHall 01:16, 27 May 2007 (edt)

Bradley is one year older than Adu. Spector was 18 when called into his first meaningful National Team camp during world cup qualifiers. So, that's the same age group 18-19 range. 74.132.168.89 00:37, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Adu was born 06/02/89, Bradley 07/31/87. That's a 22-month difference, for what it's worth.AlbertHall

Wikipedia isn't going to attempt to control the minds of its users. Wikipedians are allowed to have opinions on things, we just aren't allowed to introduce opinions into articles. For example, I personally think that George W. Bush isn't that great of a president. There is nothing wrong with having that opinion. Likewise, there are some Wikipedians that will think he is the greatest president of the United States. Again, there is nothing wrong with that opinion. What we can't do, is say "George Bush is a bad president", or "George Bush is the best president", or anything like that. It has been clear for a while that Batman2005 doesn't like Freddy Adu, but note how he hasn't removed any of the recent edits by drsmoo that merely mention facts. :) --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 02:18, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

My too subtle point is that you guys take yourselves too seriously and, according to the warning at the top of the page, "This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Freddy Adu article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject." This whole page is largely useless and would generally be better erased if possible! AlbertHall 02:49, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

This stuff is gold. I love Wikipedia. More crazy talk please. Solicitor1 14:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I hate to sound like I take delight in someone's failure (I don't), but this talk page should be landmarked. Dawindler (talk) 18:05, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

"Trial" versus "Training session"

I understand that the player was too young to sign for United at the time, but trials don't require work permits as they aren't actual transfers. They aren't paid, e.t.c. All the sources that I use list it as a trial, as well as everything that I find on Google. [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16]

There are many more, but I won't bother. Even doing a Google News search for Freddy Adu training session brings up nothing regarding his Manchester United trial, yet a search for Freddy Adu trial brings up many. These are the reasons I am reverting. I cannot find anywhere listing it as a "training session", apart, perhaps, from the DC United site, which here, briefly mentions "The teenage prodigy will join England's Manchester United this weekend for a two-week session." --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 21:39, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay. I have now managed to find one that mentions the Adu thing, in passing, as a "training session": [17] --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 21:50, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but you may have spelled one of the words wrong. Google adu training "manchester united" yields 60,700 entries, including UEFA.com ([[18]] and BBC Sports (which used both terms, e.g., [[19]]) describing the adventure as a training experience. Using adu trial "manchester united" yields 11,700 hits. I'd say it doesn't matter, like most of this page! AlbertHall 18:10, 30 May 2007 (EDT)

How about people check the Manchester United website, which clearly states he spent two weeks there on trial [20] 90.192.92.252 16:45, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Benfica

Regarding these edits. According to the source provided, nothing is set in stone yet. "expect Adu to move to Europe, if not now then after this MLS season. He wants it. MLS wants it. And there appears to be enough demand from Europe following his Under-20 World Cup performance to make it happen.", it says. That source is two days old. these ones are much more recent, and they all state, from Carlisle to Salt Lake, that the deal is not yet done.

We should only include the transfer when it is confirmed, personal terms have been agreed, and the medical has been passed.--Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 15:34, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Looks like the deal is finalized and Adu is on a plane to Europe as of Saturday, July 28 2007 according to this source 23:48, 28 July 2007 (UTC) Bostonalex

Yup, it's official http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070730/capt.0225c010db3b44b6a6d62fe3c7c868d1.portugal_soccer_benfica_adu_xsg101.jpg Drsmoo 21:47, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Why so cheap? Is his contract about to expire? I was under the impression that Adu was a reasonably highly-rated player. Badgerpatrol 15:39, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

His contract at Salt Lake ran until the end of this (calendar) year, expiring on 31 December 2008. While this is pure speculation on my part, I'm willing to bet that this deal includes a large sell-on percentage, and perhaps some kind of Feeder/Parent club relationship there, though the former is far more likely than the latter I'd say. While Freddy Adu isn't quite as promising as he was 4 years ago, he's still rather good for his age, and normally, on the European market, this kind of player would fetch at absolute minimum £3-4m. $2m really is quite a bargain, which is why I feel there is probably a next-sale percentage there. --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 16:07, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm correct! "Besides the transfer fee, MLS is in position to gain a percentage of any future transfer of Adu from Benfica to another club, Gazidis said." --Dreaded Nostradamus 18:27, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Adu has fallen out of sight @ Benfica. He started fast w/ four goals and settled into a pattern of late substitutions in almost every game. Then almost concomitantly Camacho left and Adu spent time away for the US Under 23 Olympic qualifying effort. Since then he hasn't even been listed in the potential substitutes list in the box scores. His blog doesn't address the issue. I think the happy talk about his tremendous future @ Benfica should be edited out of the article. Anyone with additional thoughts or more information on his status or lack thereof @ Benfica, please chime in! Tapered (talk) 04:40, 28 April 2008 (UTC)Tapered

The part about his time in Benfica is not very consistent... If they were "impressed with Adu's skills and attitude in training", why did he play only 11 games at Benfica, with most (all ?) of them as substitute, and why did they let him go away to Monaco, which is far to be a top club from french league (which is not a top league) ? Telling the details of all his 3 goals makes even less sense. Imagine the same done with David Trezeguet at Juventus (130 goals so far). It'd be a quite long article... --Skhawaga (talk) 12:13, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 11:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Moved from top of talk page

Can we please get the fans of freddy adu, or the people who dont know anything about soccer. to stop posting to this page. they are deleting facts from articles that are already placed on the page. And most of their stuff dont make any sense. "He was selected for the 2006 MLS Semifinals." Alot of links that they are quoting are dead links as well. dr moos and dreaded walrus are not even reading the facts that people are placing on the page they are just deleting it because obviously they are big freddy fans, and they dont want facts on the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.116.96.92 (talk) 08:53, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

See my response here. Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 08:57, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

So someone who puts down facts from the articles that are on this page is vandalist. and cant seem to place anything in the discussion page because OMG it gets removed dreaded walrus you should be banned from this page you even admit you are a freddy adu fan, and its very clear that you only want your POV of freddy adu on this page not facts that come from the article on this page. and if your wondering what do they mean. Heres a hint actually read whats getting put down instead of instataneously removing it. because it doesnt match your false pov of adu —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.116.96.92 (talk) 09:04, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

So I'm not allowed to put anything down about freddy because the freddy fan dreaded walrus goes ape crap. I went ahead and changed everything and left out things that were not in the articles. going to come back with the articles and post it later but I cant do that cuz dreaded walrus aka freddy adu's biggest fan refuses to have anyone change his precious unproved POV of his favorite soccer player freddy adu

Why is'nt Freddy Adu on the US world cup team? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.188.92.190 (talk) 02:52, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Because he's not very good. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.191.131 (talk) 15:34, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Fake birth certificate?

What do y'all think of the theory that Freddy has been much older than stated all along? (I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories, but I wonder about this one…)Historian932 (talk) 00:17, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

It's a shame that Freddy's site can't be updated by the general public. There was nothing about his failed trial with FC Sion, nor that Aris Thessaloniki didn't want him to return after last season ended. Now it turns out that he is back on their roster (according to their site). -Mo 24.18.70.202 (talk) 14:04, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

"In Africa, the player who does not lower his age cannot be professional [in Europe], it's a reality." - Guirane N'Daw, former Senegalese international player. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.185.200 (talk) 11:05, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Please either unlock or keep up to data on this big-name, famous individual

{{Editprotected}} Also, if you are going to keep this locked, you owe it to us to keep more up to date on news about Freddy Adu. He is a big name who is familiar to millions. You have missed all of this.

http://www.google.com/search?q=fc+sion+adu&hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws:1,sbd:1&source=lnt&sa=X&ei=w4ByTJXtL4b4sAP76dGpCw&ved=0CBYQpwU

24.18.70.202 (talk) 14:09, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

The page has been temporarily semi-protected due to vandalism. You can edit by logging into an account, or by using {{editsemiprotected}}, but you have to include a specific proposed edit. --Bsherr (talk) 17:28, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Please pass ownership of this page along, thank you.

Please pass ownership of this page onto someone who actually cares about this information and who keeps up with changes to Freddy Adu's career. Freddy Adu is a FAMOUS player, and it is irresponsible and defeats the purpose of Wikipedia to keep this page locked if you don't have someone who updates it.

Freddy Adu does NOT play for Benfica. They own his contract, but he does NOT play for them. He plays for Aris Thessaloniki of Greece. He is listed on their official site as being one of their players (he is not on the Benfica site). What more do you need than that! Oh, and go check Freddy Adu's Twitter site. He even states that he has chosen Aris!!!

Semi-editing isn't good enough here. If you need to keep it locked, then STAY ON TOP of the news so you post accurate, current information.

(

24.18.70.202 (talk) 18:14, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Change the club name please... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.122.145.249 (talk) 10:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Accuracy of information

It is quite clear that Freddy Adu has a contract with Benfica and it is equally clear that he has not played for Benfica since ate 2007/early 2008 (don't know which offhand). He has been loaned to a succession of other professional teams since. Now, I stand to be corrected about the term "play" if it can be shown that, in some arcane football language, play includes not playing but being on loan. If that info can not be provided, please leave that aspect of the intro paragraph alone, please. AlbertHall (talk) 22:41, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi Albert you are correct that the intro needs updating however, "contract is owned by" is not a term used in football, plays for is the correct term. It should say plays for Çaykur Rizespor, on loan from Benfica. Also "past several years" is vague and will not make sense in the future, dates should be used. Finally "played for several other teams on loan" provides no information about his career either all of the teams should be listed or preferably just the current one as the intro is already fairly long. Adam4267 (talk) 22:55, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Much better now. Thank you. AlbertHall (talk) 00:31, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Your welcome mate. I just hope you didn't think I was being petty when I removed your additions they were good but just worded slightly wrong.Adam4267 (talk) 11:16, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Freddy Adu Union.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Freddy Adu Union.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations What should I do? Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Commons Undeletion Request This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 19:54, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

is he youngest player to debut in professional association football ???

he was born in june 1989 and debuted in january 2004. --82.139.5.13 (talk) 18:48, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

• No. Keresaspa (talk) 03:22, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

No. But he is a noteworthy flop in the game. CGBoas (talk) 21:34, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Career statistics

I've just updated his career stats but have noticed the table is missing a column for his continental appearances? This is despite the fact he played 3 CL games for Benfica in the 07/08 season. He also made two appearances in the Copa Sudamericana for Bahia.Cam Melling (talk) 17:35, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 4 external links on Freddy Adu. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20051125074531/http://fc.dallas.mlsnet.com:80/MLS/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20050824&content_id=40892&vkey=news_fcd&fext=.jsp&team=fcd to http://fc.dallas.mlsnet.com/MLS/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20050824&content_id=40892&vkey=news_fcd&fext=.jsp&team=fcd
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090121131345/http://arisfc.gr:80/index.cfm?pid=2 to http://www.arisfc.gr/index.cfm?pid=2&view=detail&id=1316
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20101215174036/http://www.caykurrizespor.org.tr:80/fikstur.asp to http://www.caykurrizespor.org.tr/fikstur.asp
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081203154324/http://www.ussoccer.com/articles/viewArticle.jsp_8945664.html to http://www.ussoccer.com/articles/viewArticle.jsp_8945664.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 16:48, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Freddy Adu. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090627055412/http://www.mlsnet.com:80/scoreboard/game.jsp?match=05202007_RSLDAL to http://www.mlsnet.com/scoreboard/game.jsp?match=05202007_RSLDAL

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 04:42, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 4 external links on Freddy Adu. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090627200012/http://www.mlsnet.com:80/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20070730&content_id=109014&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp to http://www.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20070730&content_id=109014&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150402093930/http://www.ussoccer.com/articles/print.jsp_1409031.html to http://www.ussoccer.com/articles/print.jsp_1409031.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080410210515/http://www.concacaf.com:80/view_article.asp?id=4128 to http://www.concacaf.com/view_article.asp?id=4128
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081203211624/http://www.ussoccer.com/articles/viewArticle.jsp_8814594.html to http://www.ussoccer.com/articles/viewArticle.jsp_8814594.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 21:18, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Freddy Adu. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20121007230009/http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/05/28/2240566/freddy-adu-gets-another-shot-with.html to http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/05/28/2240566/freddy-adu-gets-another-shot-with.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

N An editor has determined that the edit contains an error somewhere. Please follow the instructions below and mark the |checked= to true

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 08:17, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Freddy Adu. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Corrected formatting/usage for http://ussoccer.com/articles/print.jsp_1409031.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 15:22, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Freddy Adu. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100113052923/http://www.soccer365.com:80/us_news/story_9709181838.php to http://www.soccer365.com/us_news/story_9709181838.php
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.esporteclubebahia.com.br/noticia/13104-freddy-adu-e-o-novo-reforco-do-bahia.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150402112950/http://kups1923.com/?p=438 to http://kups1923.com/?p=438

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:11, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

View on mobile

Not sure what the reason is but the page is completely broken on the iOS Wikipedia app. Sections do not display correctly and the whole page is listed in one blue box. HBKUS (talk) 04:59, 25 April 2023 (UTC)