Talk:Cambodian Rocks

Cambodian Rocks has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: March 29, 2016. (Reviewed version).

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Cambodia To-do:

Let us work in the best reference and presentation of archaeological sites of Cambodia beyond Angkor like Sambor Prei Kuk, Angkor Borei (Takeo), etc.

Should disambiguate Republican Party for Democracy and Renewal and generally try to link up social conscience with right-wing values.

I'm looking for the best picture or any informations about the KAF's U-6 (Beaver). It seem that the KAF had 3 aircrafts. But in 1971, during the viet cong's sapper attack at the Pochentong Air Base,at least 1 Beaver was destroyed.In 1972 at leat 1 Beaver was refurbished with a new engine. http://www.khmerairforce.com/AAK-KAF/AVNK-AAK-KAF/Cambodia-Beaver-KAF.JPG

Thankfull for this info. [Unsigned]

Albums

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Rock music Low‑importance

	Rock music portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Rock music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Rock music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Rock musicWikipedia:WikiProject Rock musicTemplate:WikiProject Rock musicRock music
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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Cambodian Rocks/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: FunkMonk (talk · contribs) 23:25, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I'll review this, seems very interesting and sad. FunkMonk (talk) 23:25, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks! — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 17:55, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I guess the "recorded" parameter could be added to the infobox, with the approximate span of years mentioned?
- Y The sources seem more or less uniform in characterizing the releases as being from the late 60s and early 70s (the Khmer Rouge started in 1975), but I don't see specifics. Erring on the side of generality, I just went with 1960s-1970s. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 17:55, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Seems (according to some Youtube comments) the drums were "enhanced" for the CD with digital drum overdubs (and faster speed)? If so, should certainly be mentioned, something to look into...
- This is a hard one. I saw this, too, in the comments of a blog post and tried to find more information. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any reliable source for it (i.e. not in the comments). I also couldn't find any version that was clearly the "original" for all but a couple. The comments about it being common to rework older songs with newer techniques makes sense, but I didn't want to get into OR by looking into that phenomenon and then presuming it's the case here. For now it seems best omitted to me. Curious as to your thoughts, though. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 19:39, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  - As an example of what they're talking about, if you're interested, here are two versions of a Ros Sereysothea song (on YouTube): presumed original? and the one on this album. There's a particular [synthesizer?] sound that differentiates the two (possibly other differences, but that stuck out). The thing is, all I have to say that it was added 30 years later is some blog/youtube comments. Synthesizers and music production is outside of my wheelhouse, but given the sorts of sounds used by e.g. United States of America (band) and others from around the same time, if I hadn't read those comments I would've assumed it was simply a different version with a different lineup... — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 19:46, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If no reliable sources can be found to support it, I guess there's not much to do about it... But keep on the lookout! FunkMonk (talk) 23:06, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

All terms linked in the intro should also be linked in the article body.
- Y FYI I reworked the musical style section a little bit in the process. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 17:55, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Seems the intro could be beefed up a bit. You don't mention the criticism of not crediting the artists etc.
- Y Well, I didn't mention the criticism because I believe it's only in one of the sources (and that source mentioned in another). I've incorporated it and think the lead reads better for it, though it's possible there's an WP:UNDUE claim that could be raised. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 19:34, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Likewise "just before the Khmer Rouge" in the introduction is a bit esoteric for most readers. Explain what it is.
- Y — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 19:34, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"a charcoal rubbing taken from Angkor Wat." Rather a rubbing from a photo of Angkor Wat? Perhaps specify a relief in Angkor Wat, and mention what the place is.
- How can one tell what relief it comes from? I'm just going by this source. I don't have any reason to question it (it makes sense and looks similar to some images I've seen of the bas reliefs at Angkor Wat, but I don't know the best way to expand upon that). I'm not sure I follow re: rubbing from a photo. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 19:34, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You could mention in both the intro and under production that all artists have apparently been identified in the meantime.
- Y — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 19:34, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Since there now seems to be much more information available about the individual artists, I'd expect a bit more background about them, perhaps some examples of what happened to them? Did any survive, etc.? How popular was this genre back when the songs were originally released? I guess the documentary could be cited for information.
- coming back to this one. Will certainly expand, but I don't think anything more than speculation exists about what happened to them (but I'll look). — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 19:34, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  - update: Started on this. Not done. Coming back to it later. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 13:09, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    - Y @FunkMonk: Ok. Added information about the two most prominent artists and a little bit about a couple others. Sources are seriously lacking for e.g. Liev Tuk and a couple other involved such that it would be hard to say much. Is what's there along the lines of what you had in mind? — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 15:18, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good! As for Angkor Wat, you should at least add "temple" as presentation. Anyhow, I think I can pass now. FunkMonk (talk) 22:42, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@FunkMonk: Excellent! Thanks very much! And

re: Angkor Wat (edit). — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 02:36, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ta to all

Thank you, the reviewers and the authors, for this excellent article. I feel like travelling to Cambodia to check things out now. Zezen (talk) 03:23, 25 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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About the lead paragraph

Great job by everyone, especially Rhododendrites, in developing this great article. I have a minor concern about the opening paragraph, which says: "Little information about them or their creative output has survived." This statement contradicts the rest of the article, which has lots of information! It was possibly true when the bootleg album appeared in 1996; at that time apparently nobody outside of Cambodia ever knew that there was an old rock scene there. The fact that Wikipedia has detailed articles on folks like Sinn Sisamouth and Ros Serey Sothea shows that the "little information" problem has since been rectified, at least partially. That's thanks to more recent news articles, the Don't Think I've Forgotten film, etc.

So maybe the opening paragraph should say something like "At the time, information about artist names and song titles had been lost, but the album revived interest in the musicians and their creative output." And that statement can be backed up with the sources that are used elsewhere in the article. I could do this but thought I'd get an opinion from the folks who did the original research for the article. Thanks. DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 16:50, 16 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Doomsdayer520: Good point. I went ahead and changed the line to "A great deal of information about them and their creative output was lost, although some has been recovered since the album's release." That a lot was lost and some recovered seems to be true even for the biggest names in the bunch. No objections if you want to tweak further. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 00:01, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Moving Your Text to Another Article

Attention everyone who helped make this a "good article": There is a link here to Music of Cambodia, which is apparently a work in progress. As of right now, that article has a mere one sentence about the 60s/70s rock boom. Our article on Cambodian Rocks has become Wikipedia's authority on that era thanks to the great text and reliable sources that you guys used. So I am going to borrow some of the stuff here and add it to that article, though I will not be overloading Cambodia's thousand-year music history with this one time period. If you're knowledgeable on the topic, consider helping expand Music of Cambodia. Thanks. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 18:13, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Doomsdayer520: Sounds good. To be clear, though, you mean copying/using the text, not moving it, right? I may be able to help a little with that article. Leaving a message about organization on that talk page. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 19:55, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Rhododendrites: I forgot that Move is a specific Wikipedia term... it's just copy/paste. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 15:53, 29 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright status

Aside from the Sinn Sisamouth part already discussed in the article, is there any other info on the copyright status of these works? And not just whether they're copyrighted or not, but if so, how they (or families) go about collecting royalties? Volunteer Marek (talk) 08:49, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Volunteer Marek: I've only read about Sisamouth's family, unfortunately. Which isn't all that inspiring since he was the most well-known, with lots of well-known songs and political connections and it still took his family a decade of pushing following the implementation of copyright laws in the early 00s. I don't know the specific process they would undertake, but I know that with Sisamouth, even given his level of fame, there was still a real issue of being able to prove authorship given so much documentation was lost. There's the newness of copyright in the culture, and the proliferation of pirated copies, such that it's not clear how much in royalties they would receive. I don't think anyone is collecting back royalties -- just from the point copyright is granted forward (I think?). Some OR in this response FWIW. Just did a quick search but didn't find anything new. Useful bit via Phnom Penh Post: "Since 1982 record companies have been selling bootleg copies of “golden era” classics but the families of the songwriters haven’t received any royalties because of weak copyright laws and enforcement in Cambodia and a lack of documentation proving who actually wrote the songs." Could really use more Khmer speakers in these articles. I think as of today we have at least stubs on all of the artists on this album, but some (like Meas Samon and Liev Tuk) seem to have a whole lot of media out there but little available in English... — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 02:40, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]