Talk:Boarding school

Different kinds of "boarders"

"These schools take in some students as boarders and other students as semi-boarders, who would only attend school hours in the day alongside boarders and then return to their homes."

In what sense are "semi-boarders" boarders? According to this definition they are day pupils, exactly like in a day school.

"These schools might also admit some students as day-boarders. These pupils would have meals at school along with attending classes, but they live off-campus."

Does this mean that there are people who would have three meals a day on school premises, and then go home? I'm not sure what the point of that would be. If you use this term, it suggests that the definition of "boarder" is someone who takes three meals a day at the school - I always assumed it meant someone who resides at the school for some or all of term time.

"On the other hand, quasi-boarders have a different view of boarding schools as compared to most usual boarders (full term boarders), who would only go back to their homes either at the end of a term or by the end of an academic year."

As I understand it, this is hopelessly out of date. For the last few decades all schools (at least in Britain) have had half term intervals, and absolutely nobody stays for these. Moreover, there tend to be exeats, which are weekend times at which everyone leaves the campus. When I was there (early-mid 1990s), the only people who "only go back to their homes either at the end of a term or by the end of an academic year" were people from overseas, who had special accommodation arranged for them during exeats and half term.

There's also no direct mention of the weekly boarder (stay for the week and go home at weekends), which is the sort I was - I guess this is a kind of quasi-boarder? -- Smjg 12:46, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I attended a Boarding school in the US, and we had Day students. The Day students attended the school and were in fact the majority of those attending. Of a population of 800 or so students in the pre-college school (highschool) only 160 lived in the dormitories.

The day students would eat lunch at the school as part of their tuition fees, and if they were not a boarder they could attend breakfast or dinner meals (or both) by paying a small fee of $5.00USD for the meal (Or charging it to their student account).

These day students are just that, day students. Boarders participate in dormitory activities and live in the dorms as well as must abide by curfews and other restrictions whereby any leaving campus must be notified to their dormitory office, etc. Day Students when on campus and not during school hours are responsible to them selves and their parents and are rarely found on campus on the weekends accept perhaps for club or sport activities. --Falieson 00:43, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Not out of date

This article might seem out of date when selectively compared to some experimental schools and elite prep schools. However this article is valid when taking into account the systems common to boarding schools around the entire world. Robin klein 03:41, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I never got the impression that the school I went to was either experimental, elite or prep. Moreover, who here goes/went to a school where people stay for the half term break? How did you pass the time? -- Smjg 14:41, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Even if in many countries half term breaks still don't exist, it's misleading considering the extent to which the article appears to have been written from a British viewpoint. We ought to improve on this bit of information a bit.... -- Smjg 15:55, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I agree that this article seems to have little to do with the, I think fairly typical, boarding school that I attended from 1995-2000. The first two paragraphs under "Boarding School Description" seem to have been written from a very odd viewpoint (why is it so important to list the various rooms, and what school has a "storehouse" for personal belongings?) and the minute cataloguing of different types of boarders is simply incorrect in relation to any school I know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.205.31.138 (talk) 01:04, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

A General description of Boarding schools

An encyclopedia article has to cater to diverse readers. For those who have been to boarding schools this article might seem vague or even odd with all the details or the rooms and the various "types of boarders". But if one was to talk to people who have never seen/been to boarding schools, then the basic information they ask are those that might be considered mundane. Like different boarding schools and different systems and functioning, different schedules of going back to ones homes eg: pupils who visit homes every weekend; those on the other hand who return home at the end of a semester or term, etc....

Considering that many people have not been/seen a boarding school, traditional or newer ones, mundane and seemingly redundant information like "storehouse" and "bunk beds" is important detail.

While writing an article for an encyclopedia, one has to be general, especially considering an international readership. Writing a general or "universal" article about education systems or the like is an imperfect task, where variations are diverse. And most often the best option is to detail the mundane information, the traditional aspects, and from a general perspective and in this case a very broad perspective across developed and developing countries. Robin klein 04:50, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Alright, can I make a different point and say that to my reading the first few paragraphs of this article take a somewhat negative view of the subject. I'm not arguing facts, but tone. Particularly,

...as defined by the boarding school administrators. These activities have a predefined structure and time set by the institution. These predefined schedules and norms are to be strictly followed, the failure of which could earn punishment.

, the suggestion in the following paragraph that boarding schools damage children in some way, and the sinister-sounding "total institution" in the very first sentence. These combine to give a negative, rather than a neutral, view of the subject.

As a separate point, I also agree with smjg that the categorisation of "boarders", "semi-boarders", "quasi-boarders" and "full-term boarders" is confusing, apparently contradictory, and in many cases factually wrong. I would prefer to replace them with the self-explanatory terms (in order of increasing time spent at school) day-pupil¹, weekly boarder, full boarder, while noting that this terminology does not necessarily apply all over the world.

¹ Noting that the rather more euphonious day-boy is invariably used in single-sex boys' schools.

PeteVerdon 11:32, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Terminology

These terms are not all inaccurate, googling gives this:

• quasi boarding school: 11 hits
• Day boarders: 689 hits
• Day scholars : 17,800 hits
• Semi boarding school: 56 hits
• Day Pupil: 5040 hits
• weekly boarder: 611 hits
• full boarder: 264 hits

please verify before passing off anything as factually inaccurate.
In American english Day boy is common, however in British english Day scholar and Day boarder is commonly used, as per the students life at school. Robin klein 14:59, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

You say that "Day boy" is common in American English. I'll take your word for that; I'm not qualified to judge. I'm British, went to a British boarding school, and have a number of friends who went to (different) British boarding schools. The terms "Day scholar" and "Day boarder" which you assert are common in British English are unfamiliar to me. "Day scholar" I can see could arise as a legitimate gender-neutral version of "Day boy", but "Day boarder" is contradictory. A day-[boy|pupil|scholar] is the opposite to a boarder. PeteVerdon 12:17, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

At my (British, single-sex) school, the terms were "day boy", "weekly boarder" and "full boarder" (a quarter of a term at a time). I agree that self-explanatory terms should be used wherever possible. But to what extent can "full boarder" be considered self-explanatory? I guess we can suppose it means the maximum level of boarding that the school provides.... -- Smjg 16:13, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Likewise, except that full-boarders were for half a term at a time, as (apart from the Junior school) we did not have exeats. PeteVerdon 19:05, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

... and at mine, but our half terms were called "exeat"s. Double the confusion, double the fun.

James F. (talk) 20:09, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Of the first 10 hits for "Day boarders" all were either part of the expression 5-day boarders, meaning students who boarded 5 days a week or were about horses. The expression "Day boarders" has no curancy in the U.S. I went to two boarding schools one for grades 6-9 and one for grades 10-12. I had friends that went to at least 15 other boarding schools. I have never heard the expression "Day boarders" unmodified. Steph swhought@fcsl.edu — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.150.94.194 (talk) 18:27, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I beg to differ that "Day boy" is a common phrase in the US. I went to an American boarding school, I live in New England where there are many boarding schools nearby. I've never heard the term "day boy" - we refer to students who attend but don't board as "Day Students." --CountryMama27 (talk) 18:43, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Terminology - Total Institutions

It is sorry that the term "Total institution" sounds sinister. However it is the term used for these institutions by social scientists in social sciences literature, eg: Psychology, sociology, anthropology etc. So it is definitely neutral or NPOV.

However, the term Total Institution is not all that sinister it has 14,500 hits on the google -- Robin klein 15:21, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

According to Goffman's definition in Wikipaedia, none of the paradigm boarding schools are Total Institutions: "an institution where all the aspects of life of individuals under the institution is controlled and regulated by the authorities of the organization. Total institutions are a social microcosmos dictated by hegemony and clear hierarchy. Total institutions include some boarding schools...."

This sociology is admittedly not applicable to boarding schools generally, the subject is of minority interest, and at the least contentious applicability and value (you may as well define a family as a Total Institution). This academic terminology is obscure to many readers of this encyclopaedia; and it clearly does not follow from what the author says above that it is NPOV. It sounds as though he knows little of the schools he is claiming to classify. (You can read in law reports and royal pardons how "controlled and regulated" my boarding school in central London has been!) Google will return hundreds of hits for obvious spelling mistakes, so that is hardly a measure of proper usage.

In summary, this terminology is utterly inappropriate to the first line of a definition of a common phrase. Jezzabr 17:22, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Messy!

This whole article is written in a messy and confusing manner, and seems to be 50 years out of date in everything it says, both about the structure of boarding schools, and their use/popularity in various countries. Is there an informed person who can overhaul it? 11:12, 20 December 2005 (UTC) (Skittle) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 57.66.51.165 (talk) 11:12, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I entirely agree that this whole article needs rewriting with a NPOV by people who know what they are writing about, internationally. We'll be told that they wear top hats at Eton next...! ) Jezzabr 17:20, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

It's a terrible article and very biased toward UK boarding schools. It should be organized as to information that is valid for all countries' boarding schools, and then split off by individual country. Anyone up for the task? --CountryMama27 (talk) 18:45, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Needs substantial revision

The section on the U.S. is so incomplete as to be inaccurate. The United States has a well-developed network of independent, private secondary schools, both religiously affiliated and otherwise, boarding and day. Many are modeled after the British public school, especially in atmosphere. Let's get cracking, chaps! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.237.136.88 (talk) 06:56, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Question: Term used for House Advisers

My House adviser when I was talking to him once mentioned a term that gave him 'parental authority' over me signed over by my parents (and the parents of all boarders). My memory says that the term was Parental Locus but I can't seem to find it elsewhere on google, is anyone aware of the proper term that I am looking for? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Falieson (talk • contribs) 00:46, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

In loco parentis? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.143.229.49 (talk) 06:53, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

It is "in loco parentis" which is Latin for "in the place of parents." It's a legal term that permits the school to act in the student's best interest when the parents are not available --CountryMama27 (talk) 18:38, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Lights out (academia)

There should be a section about bedtime, or lights-out. Angie Y. 23:45, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Neutral Point of View

I think that the use of boarding schools as an attack upon indigenous cultures is a very important issue that may need more coverage from a historical perspective in this article (is this still happening?). At the same time, this article has an overall atmosphere of "modernity" that puts an excessive emphasis on social theory without any real scientific basis. In particular I take issue with the supposed benefits of prolonging childhood by keeping children within the family structure past adolescence. Is there any evidence, aside from the very factual dominance of the ruling classes, for the positive or negative effects of boarding schools? Any social practice can be done well or poorly. Since all issues associated with human society are highly complex, we must strive much harder not to make statements that are more fashionable than factual.

Speaking as a father whose children did not go to preparatory boarding schools, I think that we need to recognize that many boys and/or girls need a broader perspective than their (often disrespected) families can provide as they reach the fledgling stages of adolescence. There is a very deep and well documented history of this kind of cultural education, from the extended initiations of the australian aborigines (and other indigenous peoples) to the upper class boarding schools of the British. The main reason that my children did not go to boarding schools was expense, and it needs to be noted in this article that - mostly - boarding schools are the prerogative of the well-to-do.

Coming of age is a very difficult period in all times and in all places for people. Getting away from the idiosyncracies of any particular (amateur) family is one way of facilitating the process. I am writing this on the "talk" page because I am not prepared to do the research and find the citations to improve this article myself. Instead, I may take the lazier approach of asking for citations with every questionable assertion.Bob 00:24, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Nearly every section of this article highlights possible negatives of boarding schools (psychological damage, bullying, implication of broken families, etc) with doing little to show any positives (there are many). Many of the accusations against boarding school life, such as the use of stimulants, could in fact be said of any high school, at least in the US. Both the Sociological and Psychological sections should be removed or revised to make this article more neutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.143.208.68 (talk) 18:23, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Any good websites?

i am doing a project on boarding schools and i was wondering if there was any good websites that i could go on that would be great

--89.100.67.233 14:49, 19 April 2007 (UTC)bobbi--89.100.67.233 14:49, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Revision

I have decided to try and improve this article. I will present my proposed change here first and if no one objects with in 24 hours I will proceed with the proposed change.

Starting with the opening section I propose to substitute this

“A boarding school is a school where some or all pupils not only study, but also live, with their fellow student and the teachers. The word 'boarding' in this sense means to provide food and lodging.
Many public schools in the Commonwealth of Nations and private schools in the US are boarding schools. The amount of time one spends in boarding school varies considerably from one year to twelve or more years. Boarding school pupils may spend the majority of their childhood and adolescent life away from their parents, although pupils return home during the holidays.”

For the curent text with is as follows

“A boarding school is an educational institution where some or all pupils not only study, but they also live, amongst their peers. The word 'boarding' in this sense means to provide food and lodging.
Many public schools in the Commonwealth of Nations and private schools in the US are boarding schools. The amount of time one spends in boarding school varies considerably from one year to twelve or more years. Boarding school pupils may spend the majority of their childhood and adolescent life away from their parents, although pupils return home during the holidays.
Pupils may be sent to boarding schools at any ages up to eighteen.’

My reasons for the changes are as follows.

“educational institution” is awkward bureaucratic language meaning school. Nor is there a problem with using school in the definition of boarding school because school is the genus, boarding the differentia.

I got rid of the last sentence because it is untrue. Students at colleges and universities with on campus housing are often over 18 and are at a boarding school as we define it. In the long run different types of boarding school need to be differentiated and probably we need sub-pages, but for now we need to keep thing broad. 70.150.94.194 20:05, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I believe that the next thing we need to do after the introductory paragraph is to diferentiate between types of boarding schools. I propose the following.

“Boarding school are of several types.
Independent Boarding Schools with students of primary or secondary school age. These are what most people think of when they here the words boarding school.
Colleges and universities with residence halls though not often thought of as boarding schools, they are technically a form of boarding school.
Therapeutic schools which provide clinical inpatient services for students with disabilities, such as severe anxiety disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, Asperger's syndrome, and/or for students with substance abuse and socialization problems.
Residential schools for students with Special Educational Needs, who may or may not be disabled. Specialist schools, such as choir schools or stage schools.
The Israeli kibbutzim, where children stay and get educated in a commune, but also have everyday contact with their parents at specified hours.” 70.150.94.194 20:23, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

A boarding school is an educational institution there is nothing wrong about that description. It is more an apt term in the lines of the Harvard Psychologist Erving Goffman. (Goffman, Erving (1961) Asylums: Essays on the Social Situation of Mental Patients and Other Inmates. (New York: Doubleday Anchor, 1961); (Harmondsworth: Penguin, 1968) ISBN 0-385-00016-2 )

Colleges and universities are not thought of as boarding schools because THEY are not. Any attempt to imply otherwise is utter POV with promotional purposes rather than an encyclopedic writing. Besides if you read the article from the beginning one could realize that Kibbutzim are communes and not boarding schools. They are a form of residential education but are not boarding schools in any way. Robin klein 17:16, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Well a school may be an educational institution, however I would bet no one says “I have to go to educational institution today.” This sort of bureaucratic language adds nothing to the article.

Churchill made this point about language after reading a civil service paper on Britain’s housing situation by standing up in the House of Commons and singing “accommodation unit, accommodation unit sweet accommodation unit, there is no place like accommodation unit.”

Furthermore, there is a good entry for school that we can link to. The entry for educational institution is a disambiguation page. The link currently part of this article is to education.

As to the article by the Harvard physiologist, I am frankly not sure why we should follow her style or lack there of. Nor why an article on prison inmates is relevant here.

In short I see no reason not to make that change. If one is given within 18 hours I will hold off otherwise I am going to make this revision. 70.150.94.194 18:32, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

OK I agree, but we are already calling them boarding schools in the article. If there is agreement that they are not boarding schools then I will not write that. 70.150.94.194 22:20, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Malta

This sure doesn't look very relevant...Promotion of the school. Elainexe 15:40, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the Malta stuff should go. We are not advertising for individual schools here. 70.150.94.194 18:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

A Bit Jaded?

This article only seems to promote the negative aspects and stigma associated with boarding school. It doesn't really mention the positive aspects of such an education. Could someone balance this article out a bit? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.49.25.229 (talk) 06:11, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Shure can! Boarding Schools can be horrible places to grow up. Homesick? I was glad to be out from under my mothers temper and so the violence I endured at boarding school was tolerable. 'Hazing' rituals have been publisized but I didn't see those mentioned in this article. Complicit staff (authority figures) make the nightmare a reality. Ask almost any native Canadian that went through the 'residential school' system. I figure billions have been payed out in compensation. Parents need to take responsibility for their children, including their education. I'm the first to agree that its not always possible when a parent needs to have two or three jobs just to put food on the table, but their children are not the ones to be sent to private schools. Simply put, there is no good substitution for raising your own children, all the way to adult. 68.69.212.200 (talk) 20:46, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Advertisement?

"It is claimed that children may be sent to boarding schools to give more opportunities than their family can provide. In the United States for example, families interested in having their children raised in an environmentally sustainable community, prefer college prep boarding schools like Scattergood Friends School where living sustainably is a way of life." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.49.25.229 (talk) 06:16, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes this is indeed advertisement. A lot of people running boarding schools are writing on this page. They dont even give references to what they write and denounce passages with references as negative. Robin klein 03:20, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Mr. Klein, The reason people dislike the total institution talk which you are so in favor of is that it is just psychologizing. What does it mean? The only meaning that I can ascribe to it is that it is unhealthy to have a stiff upper lip and show some objectivity. Well that is Mr. Goffman’s opinion, but some people think that it is a virtue. This is not something that can be resolved, it just has to be made plain in the text. That is to say the total institution stuff has to be there and so does contrary material. What we really need is a good rewrite of the whole article which I am trying to do in my limited spare time.

P.S. If you think I run a boarding school you are wrong, I am an OB. 70.150.94.194 18:46, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

History

Is it time to add a section on the history of boarding school? What do you think? 70.150.94.194 00:23, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I add my proposed opening graph for a history section posted below here for continuity

“ The question when was the first boarding school founded is a difficult one to answer. The practices of fostering children with other families so they could learn is of very long standing, with records going back thousands of years. In Europe the practice of sending boys to monasteries for their education developed. The school often considered the worlds oldest boarding school, King’s School Canterbury, counts the development of the monastery school in around 597 AD to be the date of the schools founding. However all of the monastic schools were dissolved with the monasteries themselves under Henry VIII. The school that can probably claim to be the oldest boarding school in continual operation is Winchester College founded by Bishop William of Wykeham in 1382.”

Stephen W. Houghton II, Eaglebrook ‘86 Avon Old Farms ‘89

96.26.177.229 (talk) 00:08, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Revision

Unless there is some objection I am going substitute this

“Some boarding schools have only boarding students, while others have both boarding students and day students who go home at the end of the school day. Day students are often known as day-boys or day-girls. Many schools also have students who board during the week but go home on weekends these are known as weekly boarders or five-day-boarders.”

“Day students and weekly boarders may have a distinct view of day school system, as compared to most other children who attend day schools without any boarding facilities. These students relate to a boarding school life, even though they do not totally reside in school; however, they may not completely become part of the boarding school experience. On the other hand, these students have a different view of boarding schools as compared to full term boarders who go home less frequently often only at the end of a term or even the end of an academic year.”

For this

“The following terminology is not applicable in the UK, as to which please see above) Some schools are semi-boarding schools (part day school and part boarding school). These schools take in some students as boarders and other students as semi-boarders, who would only attend school hours in the day alongside boarders and then return to their homes. These schools might also admit some students as day-boarders. These pupils would have meals at school along with attending classes, but they live off-campus. There are also quasi-boarders, who stay in boarding school but return to their families at mid-week and at weekends. Semi-boarders and day-boarders (collectively called as boarding-day scholars) have a distinct view of day school system, as compared to most other children who attend complete day schools without any boarding facilities. These students relate to a boarding school life, even though they do not totally reside in school; however, they do not completely become part of the boarding school experience. On the other hand, quasi-boarders have a different view of boarding schools as compared to full term boarders, who would only go back to their homes either at the end of a term or even the end of an academic year.”

I think my version is better because it uses more self explanatory words and less jargon. Also some of the current version is just wrong. (see above talk) If any one objects within 24 hours I will refrain from the change otherwise, I will go ahead with it. 70.150.94.194 16:36, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

A revision is not needed. The proposed revision would remove boarding schools as represented in many other parts of the world in its various dynamics. See the number of times the terms have been used around the world on google:

• "semi boarding school" : 615
• "day boarding school" 10,400
• "semi boarder" : 165
• "quasi boarding school" : 6

These terminologies are not "just wrong". Wikipedia hopefully does not belong only to the Britain and America. Fortunately or unfortunately there are numerous other countries and nations whose ideas and terminologies also needs to be represented on the amazing wikipedia. thanks. Robin klein 01:41, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok first of all Boarding Schools as we are defining them here are largely though of course not exclusively a pan anglosphere phenomenon. If you look at the list of boarding schools almost all of them are in former parts of the empire. Thus it is reasonable to use the terms commonly used throughout the anglosphere.

Further it is not excluding boarding schools in other parts of the world to assert that schools that have both boarding and day students which call themselves semi boarding schools, day boarding schools or quasi boarding schools are boarding schools, because by those very descriptions they are boarding schools. In all those cases boarding school is the genus and (semi, day, or quasi) is the differentia. Thus all these types of school can simply be described as boarding schools that take day students. I am willing to modify my revision as follows.

“Some boarding schools have only boarding students, while others have both boarding students and day students who go home at the end of the school day. Day students are often known as day-boys or day-girls. Some schools also have a class of day students who stay throughout the day including breakfast and dinner which they call semi- boarders. Schools that have both boarding and day students sometimes describe themselves as semi boarding schools, day boarding schools or quasi boarding schools. Many schools also have students who board during the week but go home on weekends these are known as weekly boarders or five-day-boarders.”

“Day students and weekly boarders may have a distinct view of day school system, as compared to most other children who attend day schools without any boarding facilities. These students relate to a boarding school life, even though they do not totally reside in school; however, they may not completely become part of the boarding school experience. On the other hand, these students have a different view of boarding schools as compared to full term boarders who go home less frequently often only at the end of a term or even the end of an academic year.”

However I am not willing to use the term “day boarders” which as I have previously explained gets google hits because it is part of the phrase “five-day-boarders” or seven-day-boarders.” 70.150.94.194 20:58, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

After further research I think that “quasi boarding school” should be removed because none of the hits on google are self referential. Boarding schools don’t seem to use this terminology. I will let semi-boarder slide but only three of 24 actual distinct hits refer to boarding schools the rest refer to camps, horse stables, and semi boarders in the decorative sense.

Thus I now propose this

“Some boarding schools have only boarding students, while others have both boarding students and day students who go home at the end of the school day. Day students are often known as day-boys or day-girls. Some schools also have a class of day students who stay throughout the day including breakfast and dinner which they call semi- boarders. Schools that have both boarding and day students sometimes describe themselves as semi boarding schools or day boarding schools. Many schools also have students who board during the week but go home on weekends these are known as weekly boarders or five-day-boarders.”

“Day students and weekly boarders may have a distinct view of day school system, as compared to most other children who attend day schools without any boarding facilities. These students relate to a boarding school life, even though they do not totally reside in school; however, they may not completely become part of the boarding school experience. On the other hand, these students have a different view of boarding schools as compared to full term boarders who go home less frequently often only at the end of a term or even the end of an academic year.”

Lets keep talking because I don’t want to have you revert if I make a change.70.150.94.194 15:13, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I like the revision that you have now proposed. However, my only point is that "quasi boarder" term must remain. The rest is fine. Thanks for the cordial discussion for revision. keep it up. thanks -- Robin klein (talk) 18:10, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Quasi Boarder

Dear Robin,

I am willing to accommodate you with the quasi boarder language but I want first a source: either a school web page, a page dedicated to alumni of a school, or a web page like a boarding school guide or the like which uses the word and describes what it means. If it means the same thing as Weekly Boarder or Five-Day-Boarder then I will add it a a synonym as follow.

“Some boarding schools have only boarding students, while others have both boarding students and day students who go home at the end of the school day. Day students are often known as day-boys or day-girls. Some schools also have a class of day students who stay throughout the day including breakfast and dinner which they call semi- boarders. Schools that have both boarding and day students sometimes describe themselves as semi boarding schools or day boarding schools. Many schools also have students who board during the week but go home on weekends these are known as weekly boarders, quasi-boarders, or five-day-boarders.”

“Day students and weekly boarders may have a distinct view of day school system, as compared to most other children who attend day schools without any boarding facilities. These students relate to a boarding school life, even though they do not totally reside in school; however, they may not completely become part of the boarding school experience. On the other hand, these students have a different view of boarding schools as compared to full term boarders who go home less frequently often only at the end of a term or even the end of an academic year.”

If it means exactly what we are currently describing it as, in other words as a class of students on a continuum of with day students at one end running through semi-boarders to quasi boarders to five-day-boarders to seven-day-boarders at the other end, then we need to know what the exact difference is between a quasi-boarder and a five-day-boarder so we can describe it with clarity and brevity.

I hope I don’t come across as pedantic, but I am strongly against jargon when it causes confusion instead of clarity for the general reader. People who are interested in boarding schools are likely to look at this. We want to provide them with enlightenment not confusion.

Stephen W. Houghton II, Eaglebrook ‘86 Avon Old Farms ‘89-- 70.150.94.194 (talk) 18:51, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi, here is a paper that uses the term "Quasi boarding" -

Steven B. Levine ( 1980) 'The Rise of American Boarding Schools and the Development of a National Upper Class', Social Problems, Vol. 28, No. 1 pp. 63-94

thanks, Robin klein (talk) 00:13, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I take your work for it, because I can't open the document. Since I can't read it can you tell me if the proposed addition above is good or if the term as another meaning?70.150.94.194 (talk) 20:08, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I meant to say "I take your word for it, because I can't open the document. Since I can't read it, can you tell me if the proposed addition above is good or if the term has another meaning?"

If I don't hear from you by Wednesday, I will go ahead with the proposed change70.150.94.194 (talk) 21:24, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Military Training

We have this in the front of the article does it need to be their or would we be better off putting it further back and expanding it? Also while the US maybe the only country to have "millitary academies" as high school institutions, (though I doubt it britain cirtaintly did in the past) Millitray training at boarding schools is not solely a US thing, check out the wikipedia entries for Eton and Cheltenham.70.150.94.194 (talk) 21:24, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Fee charging

While I agree that most boarding schools charge fees is it a proper part of the definition? If not I will remove. Action will be taken if there is no reply within 48 hours.70.150.94.194 (talk) 14:36, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

13th Grade

I know of no school that uses this terminology nore was it curenet among students when I was at school. It will be removed unless evidence is provided promptly. Stephen W. Houghton II 96.26.177.229 (talk) 02:41, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I'm new to this entry of boarding school, but I attended a boarding school in the US called The Vanguard School located in Lake Wales, Florida. Our school had/has a 13th year program. It was to provide either finishing credits for students who fell behind for any reason or as an extra college/university prep program, as needed, for the individual student who elected to participate. It was/is boarding in nature. I have heard of other boarding schools providing this, and as such it should be included, albeit scrubbed up a bit. (I do agree; the entire article POV needs help.) It was called 13th year, grade 13 or the 13th grade by the students. Alicein1derland Alicein1derland (talk) 05:25, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Re section Basic Guidelines and essential regulations

I have a problem with this section that I want to discuss. First I think the title is blatantly NPOV it asserts that the regulations are essential. This is of course an opinion. Secondly, why do we need a discussion of the minutia of boarding school regulations. Thirdly if arguendo it is desireable to have a discussion of such regulations why are we only discussing UK regulations. Lastly what the heck does lights-out as a phenomena have to do with this topic.

I propose that we move the last graph on lights-out into the section on typical boarding school characteristics and delete the rest. Comments please.

PS I have made the changes I proposed re 13th grade and fee charging.

Stephen W. Houghton II, Eaglebrook ‘86 Avon Old Farms ‘89 96.26.177.229 (talk) 03:26, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

If I do not see a post here to the contrary with 48 hours, I will carry out the proposed change.

Stephen W. Houghton II, Eaglebrook ‘86 Avon Old Farms ‘89 96.26.177.229 (talk) 13:55, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I made the changes I proposed here.

Stephen W. Houghton II, Eaglebrook '86 Avon Old Farms '89 96.26.177.229 (talk) 21:22, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Re section Boarding schools across societies and History

Much of the material here is useful, but it is dreadfully ill organized. I think the first thing we need to do is get a history section put together. Some of the material from this section can be used as a first draft of a history section. Ideally the history section should eventually be divided up with sub sections of different countries. The same thing needs to be done with the section on boarding schools across societies.

Here is a proposed opening paragraph for a history section.

The question when was the first boarding school founded is a difficult one to answer. The practices of fostering children with other families so they could learn is of very long standing, with records going back thousands of years. In Europe the practice of sending boys to monasteries for their education developed. The school often considered the worlds oldest boarding school, King’s School Canterbury, counts the development of the monastery school in around 597 AD to be the date of the schools founding. However all of the monastic schools were dissolved with the monasteries themselves under Henry VIII. The school that can probably claim to be the oldest boarding school in continual operation is Winchester College founded by Bishop William of Wykeham in 1382.

If There is no complaint about this I will add it to the article in 24 hours.

Stephen W. Houghton II, Eaglebrook ‘86 Avon Old Farms ‘89 76.18.234.53 (talk) 00:13, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

More on Boarding schools across societies

We need a good opening graph for this section. I propose the following

“Boarding Schools manifest themselves in different ways in different societies. For example, in some societies children start boarding school at an earlier age than in others. In some societies, a tradition has developed in which families send their children to the same boarding school for generations. “

“One observation that appears to apply globally is that a significantly large number of boys than girls attend boarding school and for a longer span of time.”

Then we need to take the material we have already and divided it by country.

Stephen W. Houghton II, Eaglebrook ‘86 Avon Old Farms ‘89 76.18.234.53 (talk) 18:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Boarding school guidelines

The section on boarding school guidelines are important as it gives official guidelines and regulations drawn by regulatory bodies. They are totally referenced as there is nothing POV about it. It is not written by one person and instead is drawn by governmental regulations. The section gives important insight into the functioning of systems that people expect to know. It is a fact that there are lots of people who run boarding schools with substandard facilities and people are not aware of these. It is for this reason that government set up these guidelines. Hence it is important information for people. Besides people do not always visit wikipedia page to edit. They may have other work and there is no ultimatum to edit that people can set. I agree with the other changes of 13th grade and fee charging and lights out. good work. Thanks Robin klein (talk) 02:35, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Dear Robin

I did not mean to be setting ultimatums, I was just putting stuff on talk for comment and giving a time period for people to say they had objections before I made changes. When you, who are the only other editor who posts regularly to the talk pages of this article, did not respond, I even took the trouble to post to your talk page to notify you. Without causing trouble, I want to say that I feel a bit hard done by that you take this in a combative way.

Now regarding the substance, I am willing to keep the material on boarding school regulations, but I object to calling them essential. It is this title that I think is POV. I propose that instead we call them Applicable Regulations. The reason I believe that Essential Regulaions is POV is that many great boarding schools: Winchester, King’s Canterbury, Eton, Andover, etc. operated for hundreds of years with out state regulation. To call the regulation’s essential is to deny this fact. Secondarily, since you might consider the first to be OR, I argue that any libertarian and many conservatives and liberals would deny that the regulations are essential and thus calling them such is POV.

Since you think this section important enough to keep, I ask that you expand it to include regulations from the US, Canada, France, Australia, Switzerland, NZ, Germany, Ireland, and South Africa. That will make it balanced and not Anglo-centric.

Since you did not do me the courtesy of giving a reply time before making your edits, I will not do so in this one particular case. As to all other edits I will continue my practice of giving a 24-48 hour comment time before making changes. I ask that if you disagree with the changes I make to talk about it here and not just make changes without discussion.

Very Sincerely Yours,

Stephen W. Houghton II Eaglebrook ‘86 Avon Old Farms ‘89 76.18.234.53 (talk) 20:40, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Dear Stephen W Houghton,

I apologise if I have come across as rude. Yes I agree that the section be called as 'Applicable regulations'. I have been trying for several years to get the regulations from several countries to make it representative of the practices around the world. But it seems that as boarding schools are prominent in Britain these guidelines have been well formulated in Britain and probably other countries are yet to follow suite. I also liked your work on history and boarding schools across societies. Thanks Robin klein (talk) 02:13, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Robin I understand we all get upset sometimes. You have my appologies if I sounded angry. Lets move on. I'm glad you like my proposals and will make the changes you aproved tomorow.

Steph 96.26.177.229 (talk) 03:03, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

"Boarding schools across societies" needs more on state boarding schools etc

This section is incomplete, I'm afraid:

• Though "In the UK, almost all boarding schools are independent schools," nowadays, that wasn't always so. Some 19th century Voluntary Schools took boarders, and section 8(2)(d) of the Education Act 1944 required local education authorities to consider the need for boarding accommodation. Today there are still 35 state schools offering boarding, as listed by the UK State Boarding Schools Association. This needs to be mentioned.
• The practice of creating (mostly state-funded) boarding schools to assimilate minorities was much more widespread and indeed pre-dates the schools for North American Indians. The United Nations study describes this process in Australia, New Zealand, Scandinavia, the Russian Federation, Asia, Africa and the Middle East. Though forced assimilation is no longer the object, there is a move in Australia towards building new boarding schools for indigenous children in remote communities, because "at the moment, the vast majority of kids in the Northern Territory don't have a secondary school to go to."

I'd love to help fix it but I'm trying to improve a different set of articles at the moment so all I can do is leave you the references I've found. Good luck - Pointillist (talk) 09:26, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

boarding concern

Hello I was hoping to add a link to this website but there appears to be no external link section.
http://www.boardingconcern.org.uk
Sbtbrownis (talk) 18:58, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

boarding school and suppression

text by User talk:216.7.233.62 deleted on 18th december 2010 as it has no references.

"As to confiding among students, elite boys boarding schools have encouraged an atmosphere of secrecy among the youths, some enduring homosexual abuses by their peers if considered weak or effiminate, or simply as a customary behavior of older boys towards the younger ones; yet, that was a matter of the strictest secrecy. To "rat" on another youth was a terrible taboo in a boarding school, and one was under great compulsion to simple bear the abuse as silently as possible and to toughen up. This is a matter of great secrecy among many who went on to become people of stature, leaders and the "movers & shakers" of society: secrecy was continued therefore well after leaving the boarding school environment, as exposure of homosexual rape of a political or business figure might endanger their ambitions. It is perhaps, then, no surprise that while frowned upon, publicly, there has been so much of a move in politics towards rights and benefits for homosexuality, as many leaders who have been touched directly or indirectly by such boarding school experiences (and whose pasts are known by others from such places) are loathe to too shaply oppose such behaviors. It would be a matter of public interest indeed to know how many public servants are compromised in their ideals due to such secretive past turmoils in all-boys boarding schools, some of which have been exposed from time-to-time in cases of child sexual abuse scandels.

"Homesickness and a sense of helplessness and isolation have often given rise to boys sexually abusing other boys in boarding schools, perhaps fueled partly by pedophilia from men in supervisory positions at times. However, some of the boy-on-boy abuses were strictly a form of pecking order and power-roles among youths. Some boys were chosen for homosexual abuse due to seeming effeminate by the standards of other boys, and sometimes it was simply a matter of the younger boys serving as surrogates for the ensuing sexual hunger of older boys going through puberty in a cloistered, same-sex environment away from home and all or most normal affection. It was considered a complete obligation to not "rat" on one's peers -- other boys -- in a boarding school. A boy had to be tough and simply take it. Away from parents, he was becoming a "man", who had to be tough in his future business affairs of life. After boarding school, the youths were inclined to keep any such abuses secret, as they could damage reputations and careers if known. It is therefore little wonder that many leaders in western societies, whether by direct or indirect association with the discreet boy-on-boy abuses in elit eboarding schools, may have quietly gone on to tolerate or promote a growing movement for legalization of homosexuality in governmental positions. Who knows the number of men bound by secret acts and fear of such things being exposed, whether in government circles or in business.:

text by User talk:216.7.233.62 deleted on 18th december 2010 as it has no references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robin klein (talk • contribs) 02:49, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Comment from 24.183.49.53

The following comment was posted on the article page

i am a very dedicated user of Wikipedia and love that this site exists, the fact that it is free and commercial-free is astounding. i would like to help in anyway possible so i am attempting to now. Wikipedia carries much more validity now than ever and that pleases me =] I do not mean to discuss this i am actually offering help to this website in this specific article.

since i did not see the "edit" hyperlink on the first section ( it was not recognized as a section in the article's "contents") i am offering my suggestion for correction in this section forgive me if this is not appropriate.

"In the Soviet Union were introduced similar schools known as internat-school"

i believe this sentence is grammatically incorrect and to increase faith and validity in this site i am offering a possibly correct version of this sentence.

"In the Soviet Union similar schools were introduced known as internat-school" i believe is atleast -more- correct though i am not a licensed linguist i think this should be corrected as it is in the beginning of the article... the part i direct my attention to most when i study.

an alternative could be "In the Soviet Union similar schools were also introduced known as internat-school"

also i believe "internat-school" should be capitalized

congrats on the great site its been a good friend to me =] i cannot donate but if the faculty ever would ever want me for assistance in any such issues with the site i will try to help to my best ability ( i think i am quite intelligent regardless of my lack of computer based knowledge)

i will email soon my personal contacts... as i believe this can be seen by public view

~cheers — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.183.49.53 (talk • contribs)

Thank you! I moved your comment to the talk page, since this is where the article content is discussed. You are absolutely right, of course. I'll make the change as you suggested, but for future reference, the top section of an article can be edited by clicking "Edit this page" at the top of the page, i.e. the top section can only be edited if you open the edit page for the whole article, it doesn't exist as a separate sub-section (for some reason...)

Cheers, --bonadea contributions talk 19:15, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Boarding schools in literature: Books

The first, main list isn't limited to British literature, neither British authors nor British settings, nor even English language. What is the rationale for a separate list of "notable North American fiction"?

How accurately do the dual lists segregate N.A. publications from the rest of the world? I don't know. Not perfectly, for the main list does include North America's Ursula K. Le Guin (1968).

In the main list I have rewritten two entries to end with "--Australia", easier to find if a British distinction will be restored.

It also includes Ludwig Bemelmans, Austrian, published in USA; Erich Kästner, German, published in Germany; Weiseler, Hebrew-language

I have put many into better chronological order but more dates and more of that order are needed. --P64 (talk) 00:54, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

I have added more dates and more order, perhaps complete through the 2006 entry. I have revised the entry for Angela Brazil and inserted four early entries for her antecedents.

Throughout both sessions I have relied entirely on wikipedia articles.

It's remarkable that a long list of books is here rather than at School story. --P64 (talk) 16:22, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Magic. The complex entry for Le Guin 1968, Murphy 1974, and the revival of schools that teach magic needs to be replaced by separate entries for L and M with something more effective for the revival.

Re Murphy, the Guardian Children's Fiction Prize panel longlisted her in 2006 with recommendation for readers age 7 and up. Quote:[1]

The Worst Witch Saves the Day, by Jill Murphy (Puffin, £9.99). Age: 7+

Mildred Hubbard is back for another set of adventures at Miss Cackle's Academy for Witches. ...

--P64 (talk) 14:09, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Is it reasonable to list "North American fiction" separately? If so, why?

Moments ago I dated and moved one Canadian listing. At the same I noticed that Libby Bray's Gemma Doyle trilogy is double listed (which I didn't amend). --P64 (talk) 14:48, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Can I also note why C.S. Lewis isn't on the British list? He discusses the British boarding system lengthily in Surprised by Joy, and his experience with such a system strongly influences his later writings... Sir Ian (talk) 18:35, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

The lists in subsection 6.1 Boarding school#Books nominally cover notable school stories, not works of literature in which boarding schools are important, works influenced by boarding school experiences, works that portray olden boarding schools well for modern readers, etc.

The entire section consists of little but these lists; ie school stories in books, school stories in feature films, etc. Thus it does not fit the heading Boarding schools in literature.

I agree that section 6 Boarding school#Boarding schools in literature should live up to its name.

The long list of books doesn't belong here. It doesn't now fit our article school story, which defines the genre narrowly. That article might be expanded; the long list might be exported to a new page (WP:LIST). Offhand I favor the latter.

--P64 (talk) 18:29, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you sir, may I have another?

I came to this site for information about the abusive history of teachers at boarding schools and all I found was professors pet projects about physiological and sociological effects and other convoluted mumbo jumbo that I don't care to know. Can someone include some information about the "golden age" of boarding schools or at least an external link to that history? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.182.3.114 (talk) 04:32, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Furthermore on Boarding schools across societies

"Outside of New England, notable boarding schools include... St. George's School, The Gunnery, Kent School, Miss Porter's School, Canterbury School..."

All of these schools are very much INSIDE of New England (St. George's being in Rhode Island and the rest are Connecticut schools.) That should be changed. The preceding paragraph to this statement reads "Within the Northeast..." and goes on to list a number of northeastern boarding schools. New England is a segment of the northeast but would certainly not entail what most would consider to be the entire northeastern quadrant of the U.S. So "outside of New England" should read "outside of the northeast." That would provide a far more accurate perspective. Also, many of the schools listed "Outside of New England" are very much northeastern schools (such as NY's Millbrook, PA's Hill, and NJ's Blair and Lawrenceville) so it is rather confusing not to include them in the notable northeastern section. To say "notable northeast," and then follow with "notable outside of New England" while still including northeastern institutions does not make sense.

The lists of schools should be renamed "northeast" and "outside of the northeast," or some proper variation, and regrouped correctly. The schools that are incorrectly listed as "outside of New England," should probably be relocated or omitted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.216.88.145 (talk) 08:30, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

I question the definition of boarding schools with pre-Revolutionary and/or colonial roots in North America. Many of the schools listed were founded well after the American colonial period, and some were founded in the early 20th century! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.250.175.25 (talk) 16:56, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

In popular culture

At the moment, this large section is an indiscriminate list of appearances in pop culture (see WP:IPC. As the template I've added states, such sections, if they exist at all, should explain the subject's impact on popular culture rather than simply listing appearances. If there are reliable sources out there discussing the impact of boarding schools on popular culture, have at it. The lists, though, are not encyclopedic. - SummerPhD (talk) 20:33, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Boarding School Syndrome?

Do we need a wiki subsection dedicated to the label of Boarding School Syndrome?

The work of the psychotherapist Joy Schaverien Phd goes in depth into the principles and behaviour that is labelled Boarding School Syndrome. does this merit inclusion on the Boarding school page? Opinion please.--Redblossom (talk) 09:31, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Also the article should indicate, if possible, what findings apply to those who attended boarding schools from elementary grades, e.g., age 7, versus those who didn't attend until the secondary school level (high school in the US). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.250.175.25 (talk) 16:58, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

NPOV

This article is very biased; it basically reads something like "boarding schools are terrible and will ruin the life of the child forever". The sections "Sociological issues of boarding schools" and "Psychological issues of boarding schools" are entirely negative, give undue weight to certain opinions (see above the complaint about "Boarding School Syndrome"), and are also focused on the UK and the US, and do not address other (non-Western) cultures. Other parts are about bullying and abuse that may take place in boarding schools, rather than about the concept itself of attending a boarding school - and maltreatment can take place in any environment, including home. The article seems to me very biased: for example, it ignores the fact that in some parts of the world boarding schools are virtually the only solution to a complete education for many families (where parents live in rural areas where there is only an elementary school, so the child has to study secondary education in a different place and board - this used to be the case in the past in Western countries too). So basically in these cultures boarding schools are the only way to further the child's education and eradicate the cycle of poverty/under-education; and parents often make great financial efforts to ensure such an education for the children. I tagged the article and I hope it improves. 2A02:2F01:505F:FFFF:0:0:50C:840E (talk) 21:45, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Another problem is that much of this article is constructed using sources from the 1960s and 1970s, but presenting them as if their conclusions are necessarily applicable today, in contemporary society, for contemporary boarding schools.2A02:2F01:505F:FFFF:0:0:50C:840E (talk) 01:25, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

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List of US boarding schools

In the section about US boarding schools outside of the northeast, the list of schools seems a bit arbitrary and a little random, with people just adding their own school. I'm going to trim it down. --alphalfalfa^(talk) 06:29, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

I've removed it completely. It's an WP:OR/WP:NPOV/WP:SOAP violation to highlight some over others without working from sources. In this case I'd expect there are high quality sources available: scholarly sources, independent of the subjects, written from a historical context, that could guide us on how to handle this. As this is in the History section, the history of boarding schools in the US should be the main topic of the section.

The UK section has no list, and appears to be the best example to follow from this article. --Ronz (talk) 15:47, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Useful link, twice reverted

I added List of state boarding schools in England and Wales, and it was reverted as not relevant to the history section. Then I added a sentence about these British state schools, with a piped link, to the last bullet point within the section on "Other forms of residential schools", which as it stood was entirely about the United States. This time the edit summary of the reversion stated "we have the overall list in See also section". There is no reference to this article there, and any attempt to find it is several clicks away. Why the opposition to including British state schools? If the classic imagined boarding school is a combination of Hogwarts and Eton, i.e. British and elite, why not include the current reality? Carbon Caryatid (talk) 11:27, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

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If you start violence

in british boarding schools if you start violence then you get kicked out and are not allowed back in.--69.4.62.155 (talk) 15:35, 5 September 2019 (UTC)