Talk:Bloody Mary (cocktail)

Sources

I removed some notifications that sources are needed for the variations in this article. In early 2007, all the variations were verified using several external sites. Those sites were included in the external links section. They have since been removed, probably because someone thought they were spam links or something. As a result, there are no longer any links to those helpful sites included. It's kind of a no-win situation. If the sources are provided, it's considered spamming, and if they are removed, then the article is unsourced. This is a common problem for many of the WikiProject Mixed Drinks articles. Any suggestions? Thanks. --Willscrlt (Talk) 05:50, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Shot

Actually, there is also a shot version of Bloody Mary. As with the mix, the miscellaneous peppers etc. can be added according to the drinker's taste, but it is important that the vodka would be poured on the spicy tomato juice carefully as not to mix the two layers; this way, if drunk as a shot, tomato and spices wipe out most of the harsh taste of vodka. I can't say how widespread this version is, but it is somewhat known in the North-Eastern Europe. --Oop 21:56, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

There is another version: replace the tomato juice with blood. It makes the drink more authentic. Scott Gall 03:16, 13 November 2005 (UTC) PS: How did they come up with using tomato juice in the first place?

Because blood doesn't have the right taste, and would have to be free of disease (I'm glad I wasn't in Romania when the H5N1 virus killed a few birds there, otherwise you wouldn't be able to use mine :-),) removed possibly by means of those things they have at the blood donor clinics, and pH balanced and all. [[User:NazismIsntCool|{{NazismIsntCool/sig}}

Nazism isn't cool]] 03:25, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Sherry

Has anyone else heard of Sherry being used as a Bloody Mary ingredient? There is no mention of it in the article. There again, this cocktail undoubtedly has one of the most widely varying recipes in existence! --Arawn c 15:41, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Variant

The Rev. Horton Heat ran out of tomato juice one night and invented the "Bloody Leroy" by substituting barbecue sauce. ~ Ray

eh...

"When beer is used instead of vodka and Clamato (a juice made of clam broth and tomato juice) mixed with a raw egg is used in place of the tomato juice, it is known as a Calgary Red Eye, a popular Canadian hangover remedy. "

Yea, and if you replace the vodka with irish whiskey, change the tomato juice for coffee, salt for sugar, and put cream on top it's called a irish coffe. That was completley unrellevant and unnecesery. So is the statement over... -Underage Bartender —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.166.240.164 (talk) 21:21, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

the quote above is a bit confusing & misleading a traditonal "red eye" does contain tomato juice and vodka ( the classic tom cruise movie "cocktail" will attest to this as will any googd bartender. A red eye is basically a bloody mary topped up with beer and the raw egg added at the end. the idea is that the egg will supply your body with all the nutrients your body has lost while you were drinking. The egg is cooked by the vodka and the beer allowing you to safley consume raw egg. However you should always be extremly carefull when using raw ingredients you dont want to give a yourself, a friend or a customer severe food poisoning. i can see where the other person was coming from with the irish coffe comment but a red eye is closely related to the bloody mary and was relevant. Even if he did have a obscure/wrong recipe ~ kev

Impressive!

I haven't visited this page for a good while, but it has improved greatly in the past few months! Was it a weekly collaboration for the Mixed Drinks Wikiproject? Hojimachong 06:58, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. There have probably been many edits by a variety of people since that time. I did do a major cleanup and reorganization of the page on New Year's Eve as part of the WikiProject's overall cleanup emphasis (which runs through the end of February). We would love additional Project Participants if you are ever interested in helping in any way. Thanks again for the compliment. :-) --Willscrlt (Talk·Cntrb) 15:26, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

BBC Balderdash & Piffle

Bloody Mary featured on the "Who were they" episode 2007-07-02 of BBC2's Balderdash & Piffle and the Oxford English Dictionary has revised it's entry for bloody mary to include the citation that has been on this page for a while: 1939 N.Y. Herald Tribune 2 Dec. 9/2 George Jessel's newest pick-me-up which is receiving attention from the town's paragraphers is called a *Bloody Mary: half tomato juice, half vodka.

K9ine 23:05, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Origin

I can find no evidence of "New York Herald Tribune, December 2, 1939, page 9" where the paper states anything about a bloody mary. I would like to attach my own reference material and literature in regards to this drink. I have written an article about the drink which can be foun d by googl'ing "bloody mary dallas examiner" and I have also written a book on the bloody mary. (spam link removed) I would like to correct this page with my own legitimate references and findings, any objections? my name is David Herpin 174.69.112.172 (talk) 21:28, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

The current article seems to side exclusively with the George Jessel claim of ownership of the origin of the drink. There are several problems with this: i) Petiot (and most sources I could find) claim he hmself invented it at Harry's New York Bar in Paris in 1920 or 21. ii) Jessel is described in several places as being a 'self promoter' iii) The references to Jessel only assert its invention in 1939 in New York. Shouldn't it be easy enough to determine whether the drink existed for the intervening two decades and so whether Jessel invented it or merely popularized it? Ashleyjbear (talk) 17:02, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I have added further documentation with cites for Petiot's 1921 and 1934 claims. In the quoted interview, Petiot seems to have forgotten the New York Bar (Paris) incident, but the tradition is maintained at Harry's Bar, according to Manager Alain Da Silva in a BBC interview in 2011, cited in the updated main article.

The NY Herald Tribune ref. is still marked verification needed. I have applied for permission to research the New York Herald Tribune Archives per gale.com for the December 2, 1939 reference, and hope to check this in a day or two. Failing that (and most newspaper morgues don't include topical trivia), I will look for a currently verifiable source, including David Herpin's article mentioned above. D Anthony Patriarche (talk) 08:36, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

yeah I cleared that up

Popped into wikilink and found myself running off to read more about it (not unusual, I'm afraid). I found an entertaining blog entry by Barry Popik, contributor-consultant of the OED and several other impressive references, including the Oxford Encyclopedia of Food and Drink in America (2004). He quotes extensively from Jessel's book how the Bloody Mary came to be invented and named. You all may already know all about it, but I didn't see it mentioned here and thought I'd share.  :) Moonriddengirl 20:46, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Im david herpin, im responsible for finding the life magazine reference which was outlined in a dallas examiner article, which has since been bought out by axs and all cocktail pages removed. Its outlined in several of my books as well. Its wrong the reference i found is up there and im not credited for finding it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1:C6E1:BDC1:A87F:C0E0:E4D:CAC (talk) 19:19, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

From what I understand there is a figure during the Protestant Reformation who came to be known as Bloody Mary. Any connection to this drink? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.98.192.102 (talk) 05:02, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

This drink is not associated with the temperance movement and long predates this cocktail.

Ive submitted a claim with info-en-c@wikimedia.org regarding the life magazine. I would like to know if anyone is claiming to have found the life magazine reference? Or explain how you knew it was an advertisement without using "the bloody family of drinks" by herpin. Or how they even discovered it in the first place. The reference has be left WP:Good Faith, that said, it is extremely suspicious. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1:D60C:89ED:8419:D938:BB96:5E22 (talk) 17:16, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

The 1939 paper which doesnt exist is being left per WP:Good Faith as well as the 1941 life magazine reference. The life magazine reference does exist and is very questionable how anyone was able to obtain this information without reading "the bloody family of drinks" again, it os being left in good faith, for now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1:C623:48EF:FD2A:18F9:F925:F1CA (talk) 12:23, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

I seriously doubt anything here was derived from David Herpin since he is an OBSCURE self-published author who NOBODY cares about, and are you another sockpuppet for him?? :) -- Doctorx0079 (talk) 02:21, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

The cocktail served at the St. Regis King Cole Bar is known as the "Red Snapper," and the origin story is explained here: — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.84.41.144 (talk) 04:17, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

References

Lime?

Seen it many times. In fact I prefer it to lemon. Add? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.149.33 (talk) 18:08, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

==Popular culture]] Removed the following section per WP:Trivia 74.72.91.209 18:30, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Popular culture

• In the film South Pacific, the song "Bloody Mary" refers to the character Bloody Mary, a native trader.
• In the film The Royal Tenenbaums, Richie Tenenbaum regularly drinks Bloody Marys.
• In the film Withnail And I, Monty drinks a number of "Rhesus-negative" Bloody Marys.
• On the television show The Jeffersons, Mother Jefferson regularly drank Bloody Marys.
• In the novel Bridget Jones's Diary, Bridget and her friends have an unhealthy obsession with Bloody Marys in the afternoon.

Might I suggest adding a quick explanation of a "Rhesus-negative" Bloody Mary, as it is a rather unusual term? --J.StuartClarke (talk) 03:28, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Parts, customers, celery

This might be pedantic, but what's with the 3 parts and 6 parts in the recipe? Wouldn't it make sense to reduce this to 1:2? 3 and 6 might make sense if you were talking about some absolute quantity like ounces, but in light of the fact that there's no other reference to parts, shouldn't this be reduced?

Cocktails & other mixed drinks traditionally use the "x Parts aaaa and y parts bbbb" format, see The Fine Art of Mixing Drinks.D Anthony Patriarche (talk) 23:59, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Actually, thats not true at all. Early literature suggest recipes are not measured seeing as many drink were medicinal prior to being served recreationally, and predate the earliest measuring devices. But i know you knew that, you know what more than me, its clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1:C623:48EF:FD2A:18F9:F925:F1CA (talk) 12:25, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Also, this part raises a question:

In the 1960s it became popular to serve the cocktail with celery due to a guest at The Pump Room at the "Ambassador East Hotel" in Chicago.

What does this mean, "due to a guest?" Did the guest ask for celery? Did he add it himself? Was he rude and the bartender shoved it into his mouth to shut him up?

Quag7 16:49, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

You need 3 and 6 because there's one part of lemon juice. AuntFlo (talk) 00:23, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Change?

"May be shaken vigorously or stirred lazily, as desired."

I'm not one to complain, and this is witty, but I don't think it's encyclopedic exactly... 71.55.55.31 (talk) 09:30, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Official preppy drink?

I don't know if this is widely associated with WASPs or not, but I don't think this: "It is the official alcoholic beverage of the Preppy lifestyle according to Lisa Birnbach's Official Preppy Handbook from the 1980s." should be in the opening paragraph. Perhaps a different section about regions of popularity or something?

69.112.164.135 (talk) 02:39, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm deleting it. It's more horrible pop culture fluff that WP could do without. --JD79 (talk) 20:52, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Picture caption?

What exactly is a Bloody Chanel? If it's a legitimate variant on the BM, there should be details in the main text. And what's saquan? AuntFlo (talk) 00:25, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Recipe?

The IBA recipe link is broken. After searching, it seems like the page doesn't exist. Possibly, we should add http://123recipes.com/Recipe/Bloody-Mary/Detail

mixdev (talk) 10:33, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Bloody Jane?

What exactly is a bloody jane? I googled it and didnt find anything. LSD instead of Vodka? That doesnt make sense, right? Or did the author mean something else than this LSD? Vandalism? I wasnt sure so I didnt remove it.

-- 24.76.162.10 (talk) 06:27, 28 June 2009 (UTC) 3 parts of LSD would cost thousands of dollars, LSD is measured in micrograms

Rary Mary?

What about the Rary Mary, where it is more vodka than tomato juice? Should this be included? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.19.165.166 (talk) 21:26, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Nixon/Liddy Etymology of "Bloody Mary"

I have removed the following alleged etymology from the article because chronologically it makes no sense and, as a result, is not "likely" at all:

The most likely attribution of the cocktail's name, however, is to Richard M. Nixon, for whom the drink was mixed by G. Gordon Liddy as a way to mask the flavor of the vodka served in the event of a Soviet dignitary's visit. The name was a tongue-in-cheek jab at prevalent Soviet iconography of Saint Mary.

Even if Liddy makes this claim in his book, it conflicts with earlier known usages of the phrase "Bloody Mary," such as the 1939 one already mentioned in the article. Clearly the Nixon/Liddy orgin of the drink's name cannot be true if the term already existed in the 1930s, long before Nixon and Liddy had become acquainted. --Skb8721 (talk) 20:52, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Garnish Substitutes

Recently I have seen people requesting the drink with a beef stick (slim jim-style dry sausage) instead of celery. Likewise, I have seen drinks garnished with what amounts to a small salad (celery, carrots, olives, cocktail onions, capers, lemon and even cold cuts and cheese) (prize-winner being a local restaurant that added a croquette on a skewer with cheese and cocktail onions next to a celery stalk filled with peanut-butter and bacon. I believe that the garnishes should have their own section to mention these "substitutes".Sings-With-Spirits (talk) 18:39, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Removal of Variations

The entire variations section is below wikipedia quality standard and reads more like urban dictionary than an encyclopedia. I propose and vote for it's outright removal and replacement with a section stating that the drink has many variations keeping that picture with the crab claw and pickled beans as an example. Almost none of the variations have cited sources, many have names that are purely regional, a few are purely fictitious, and overall the section adds little to no informational value to the article.74.64.49.2 (talk) 20:02, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

• But this week has placed one particular group in a pit of lashing hell-fire. That group is, obviously, the University of Nebraska-Lincoln greek system. Those hell raisers are at it again, after the Sigma Chi fraternity got in well-deserved trouble for having a crazy party where a stripper sodomized young men with a sex toy and where the upperclassemen forced freshmen to drink upside down Bloody Mary's until they puked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.188.98.226 (talk) 11:11, 21 June 2012‎ (UTC)

• Propose to trim variations to ones listed by some authority on cocktails (IBA? Mr. Boston?). Right now, this list appears to include pretty near anything people can think up, whether or not it meets notability standards. 159.53.46.141 (talk) 20:06, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

• Agreed with the idea of removing at least some of the "variations", most of which sound like something somebody heard about from a friend, and almost none of which are sourced. If I get time, I may go through and remove all the ones that aren't notable and verifiable. El Whizzo (talk) 06:48, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

I've removed this section again given that the only citation is to a blog. Come up with a bartender's guide of some repute, and we can but a few back in. As it is, this seems to be the fantasy of drink namers rather than something that anyone has ever mixed more that twice. Mangoe (talk) 23:56, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

The section of variations was one of the most interesting parts of this article. Once again some Wikipedia "Editor" has exerted god-like powers and decreed what is true and what isn't. You claim to know, but I would never bet on it. This is one reason I don't contribute money to Wikipedia. If this is an Encyclopedia that anyone can edit, perhaps it cannot be held to some arbitrary Encyclopedic standard. For example, I like to read about King Arthur. But, according to historians, there is no evidence that he ever existed. Well, let's eliminate Arthur from Wiki since he is only a legend. Well, maybe the article is about a "significant" legend? What's significant? Because 95% the planet know about it, or 95% of the pretty well off? The point I making is that I think he should be in there, but by the geometric logic used to gut a lot of articles, maybe he shouldn't!! Well, I read this article a year or so ago and because of it made my own "bloody shame" cocktail. Now love it and drink it occasionally, usually with no vodka. What's a "bloody shame" you ask? Well, some know-it-all deleted it from this article!!! I am certainly not going to tell you. Have a nice day. (signed) GOD

Earliest "Bloody Mary" cites in 1939

I'm Barry Popik. I don't write for Wikipedia, but maybe someone can add this information. I found that Lucius Beebe 1939 New York Herald Tribune citation about 20 years ago after many hours of hard work. I get no credit here, and everyone else took credit for this cite on BBC's Balderdash & Piffle.

There's also an interesting November 1939 "21" cite that can be found on GenealogyBank.com. Someone has to add this to the entry.

The Harry's Bar stuff is bogus. Petiot didn't invent the Bloody Mary there, although he improved the drink while in New York City. Bloody Mary in 1921? You'd better double check that. They didn't even have canned tomato juice in 1921!

http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/bloody_mary/ Barry (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 16:44, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

As mentioned above, I am researching the Lucius Beebe 1939 New York Herald Tribune citation for verification. Barry Popik, if you have a facsimile (JPG etc.) of the article, that would be great. The [Harry's] New York Bar origin anecdote is unverified but IMHO the detail in the 2011 BBC interview with manager Da Silva is fairly convincing; it is, however attested, nevertheless anecdotal and unverifiable. D Anthony Patriarche (talk) 09:05, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Barry, wikipedia is a collective common license, so even if they took your reference, the reference itself still stands. Many many many of my references are used without citing me. I never found the 1939 paper and im very good at finding literature. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1:C623:48EF:FD2A:18F9:F925:F1CA (talk) 12:17, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Virgin Mary redirect - Non-alcoholic Mixed Drinks

In the non-alcoholic mixed drinks article, it lists several drinks, and one is the Virgin Mary. The link in that article redirects here, but there is NO mention in the Bloody Mary article of the Virgin Mary variant.

I think that at least this non-alcoholic variant should be included in the main article. What's in it? I don't know, the Bloody Mary article doesn't say. Is it just tomato juice??

The "virgin" variant of this drink isn't a regional variant, it's well-known from what I understand. I think I've heard it in TV shows and movies.98.162.209.39 (talk) 15:57, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Added. Ingredients are generally the same as a Bloody Mary, according to the bar's recipe or local custom, but without the alcohol.  Done D Anthony Patriarche (talk) 17:51, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Potassium ?

Maybe add something to the article about Potassium? Tomate juice is high in potassium which is a known cure for cramps. These are often associated with excess alcohol drinking.

Anttir717 (talk) 10:50, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

IBA link is broken

It should be: http://iba-world.com/cocktails/bloody-mary/

I would fix but I can't figure out how to do that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adamvanauken (talk • contribs) 23:39, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Surf and Turf Bloody Mary.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:52, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Bull Shot?

Bull Shot in the List of Cocktails redirects to Bloody Mary, where there's no mention of it. It's apparently a mix of beef broth or bullion and vodka that was popular with the Madison Avenue crowd in the 60s (my Dad among them). 208.46.243.34 (talk) 17:57, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

You can see the strange history of bull shot, as a redirect, starting here. —¿philoserf? (talk) 04:32, 30 November 2021 (UTC)