Talk:Belal Muhammad

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On 9 July 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from Belal Muhammad (fighter) to Belal Muhammad. The result of the discussion was moved.

Requested move 19 February 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:52, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

– Daily average of the fighter is 3100+ views. More people are looking for the fighter instead of the activist. Therefore, the fighter is the primary topic. Hat note should be "for the Bangladesh independence activist" like it is now Marty2Hotty2 (talk) 00:36, 19 February 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. SITH (talk) 18:35, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 05:11, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose no analysis of long-term significance; based on my estimation it looks like the activist has higher significance because of his role in important historical events. (t · c) buidhe 09:16, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 9 July 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: hybrid. Clear consensus for first RM; insufficient consensus for second RM. The fact that talks to find a proper replacement name – regarding the second RM – are stagnating, shouldn't impede the first RM from being closed, hence Belal Muhammad will be preliminarily moved to Belal Muhammad (activist) and I encourage anyone that still objects to that name to open a separate RM. (non-admin closure) Colonestarrice (talk) 20:32, 31 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

– the fighter is clearly the primary topic. He has an average of 600 daily views as opposed to the founder who has 0-3 views. Considering the fact that these are the only two people with this name, Belal Muhammad should default to the page that is most searched for. I am making this request again and hoping to get an overwhelming consensus. At minimum, there should be a disambiguation page. Marty2Hotty (talk) 16:22, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support It might be a bit soon to propose this again, an identical RM was closed as no consensus 4 months ago. 162 etc. (talk) 18:20, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There weren't enough people to comment on it at the time. I think this is a straightforward move. What do you think? Marty2Hotty (talk) 21:58, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the proposed move, and upon further review WP:THREEOUTCOMES suggests a minimum of three months before re-requesting, so Support. I don't really like (founder) though, maybe Belal Muhammad (revolutionary)? 162 etc. (talk) 16:08, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't know about the 3 month re-request rule, so I'm glad this is okay. I changed your original "comment" to "support". "Belal Muhammad (activist)" may work. Marty2Hotty (talk) 22:55, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support 2nd the fighter gets 15,812 views compared with 98[[1]] for the founder. I've fine with both moves but also with a DAB given the above discussion. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:29, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer not to have a DAB page because there are only two people with the name and the primary individual clearly outweighs the founder. Marty2Hotty (talk) 11:36, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. If moved it should be to Belal Muhammad (activist). -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:43, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom RafaelHP (talk) 18:41, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Can someone add a picture of the guy?

also why cant you edit the page? its so short 2A02:8108:9340:1B30:94F2:310E:A454:6B91 (talk) 13:01, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

He graduated UIUC

The page currently states, "He wrestled at Bogan High School and attended, but did not complete a degree, at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.[9]" However, the link[2] it is citing, states that he graduated from the Universit of Illinois at U-C. The page is locked, so I can't make this change myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:240:8201:C6C0:44AF:5925:23FE:2F7A (talk) 13:14, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Why does it keep changing ?

I’m changing and writing Palestinian American instead of only American because that’s what he is? He uses the Palestinian flag while entering the cage? I’ve changed it several times now. I don’t see how I’m wrong in changing that 2001:8F8:1DAA:3540:FC1E:9B9D:15B2:3877 (talk) 17:24, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The lead section is only for your current citizenship or where you became notable. As far as we know he's just an American citizen. Just because he represents his Palestinian roots doesn't make him a citizen of there Creatorial (talk) 17:39, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Read MOS:ETHNICITY Nswix (talk) 17:51, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the UFC, they show the Palestine flag next to his name. On Wikipedia, should we follow that or use USA. Marty2Hotty (talk) 11:07, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Use USA per MOS:ETHNICITY. He was born in America, and therefore according to MOS:ETHNICITY should be listed as american. Gaismagorm (talk) 11:09, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

According to MOS:ETHNICITY, "Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability." As mentioned above, he fights in the UFC under the Palestinian flag which is as relevant as it gets.

This is further emphasized where stated: "In cases of public or relevant dual citizenship, or a career that spans a subject's emigration, the use of the word and reduces ambiguity."

If that's still somehow a problem, later down the page it is stated that "These details can be introduced in the second sentence if they are of defining importance." 217.45.169.109 (talk) 13:59, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

maybe, I don't know though, it's enough evidence for me to stop reverting edits, but it's more cause i'm now on the fence Gaismagorm (talk) 14:01, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

he's not notable for being Palestinian, he's notable for fighting, theres a reason Jon Jones isnt called an African American fighter, because its not relevant to his notability. Besides, he was born and raised and has lived his whole life in the US. Many fighters fight under their parents flags, we dont call them by that nationality. Nswix (talk) 14:06, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

i guess, i'm still gonna stay out of the reverting though cause I ain't sure about anything Gaismagorm (talk) 14:08, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

except for the most recent revert cause the edit very clearly was violating MOS Gaismagorm (talk) 14:11, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In this case, Belal's representation of Palestine (media, using the flag during walkouts, and country representation while fighting) is notable and relevant enough to include on his intro, I think. He is of Palestine heritage and carries it with pride. Based on these, I think it's a no-brainer to include that he is Palestine-American. Jon Jones does not talk about his African heritage nor does he publicly represent it to make it relevant to the intro of his article. Marty2Hotty (talk) 01:11, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Makes sense. We can note Palestinian-American since it is relevant due to him representing the country on the broadcasts. Marty2Hotty (talk) 01:04, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe we could mention that he represents Palestine instead of saying palestinian-american Gaismagorm (talk) 01:06, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chat GPT said we should use Palestine, but they are not aware of the policies of Wikipedia. How about "American professional mixed martial artist representing Palestine who currently competes in the Welterweight division..." Does this work? Marty2Hotty (talk) 01:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure, but it sounds pretty good. Also, I don't recommend using chatGPT when editing since it has a habit of messing up (and in some cases just straight up making stuff up). Do note that I'm not like some authority in this matter, it's just my opinion. Gaismagorm (talk) 12:39, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.ufc.com/news/the-full-story-belal-muhammad-ufc-304 As noted by a previous editor, I do think Palestinian-American works due to the relevancy of Palestine for him. I do not believe this is used for all fighters, but we can note "American professional mixed martial artist representing Palestine who currently competes in the Welterweight division..." if other editors are so reluctant. I do think Palestinian-American applies to him though. Marty2Hotty (talk) 01:16, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.newindianexpress.com/world/2024/Jul/28/for-my-people-in-palestine-fighting-the-real-fight-says-belal-muhammad-first-palestinian-to-win-ufc-title

Many media outlets refer to him as Palestinan-American. "Palestinian-American Belal Muhammad scripted history" Marty2Hotty (talk) 01:21, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per MOS:ETHNICITY the relevance is supported in personal life and background. Shadow4dark (talk) 08:31, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Belal Muhammad is notable for his primary occupation which is being a UFC fighter. Since the country he represents in the UFC according to all official UFC and ESPN data is Palestine, this clearly establishes notability in accordance with MOS:ETHNICITY. I fear there may be some political motivation in choosing to exclude 'Palestinian' from his identity. ProdigyUpdates (talk) 17:10, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Where in MOS:ETHNICITY is the part about walking out under a certain flag establishing notability? And if it did, Max Holloway would be listed as Hawaiian. Nswix (talk) 21:12, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]