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Talk:Armscor AK22

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  • Started working on a full detailed page and lost it in a browser crash. I've rebuilt most of it but have to find all the pages to link and cite and re add their quotes. The References section has some bad code that I think is coming from the table at the upper right. Your help is greatly appreciated. Help with public domain images would be great for Armscor series of firearms specifically their AK 7 M-16 22 cal clones ,if not I'm going to try and email some sites for permission for their images of the rarer items.2602:306:CE27:DC90:711F:8569:CBA5:63E1 (talk) 09:25, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Origin

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The original Armscor (Squires Bingham Model 20) was a conventional .22 hunting rifle made in the Philippines. In the United States market, it competed against the established Ruger 10/22 and Marlin Model 70. To improve its appeal, the Model 20 action and barrel were stocked and styled to mimick the appearance of the military M16 and AK-47 rifles and marketed as the Armscor M1600 and as the Armscor AK22 respectively. Like the original Squires Bingham Model 20, the accuracy and reliability are reasonable for hunting or informal target practice. The Armscor M1600 and AK22 are not replicas of the M16 or AK-47, share no parts in common with M16 or AK47, and have enough differences to make their value for military training questionable. The resemblance is purely cosmetic. (Added 6 Dec 2021: The bolt, firing pin, etc are identical between the Armscor M20P, M1600, AK22, MAK22 and the original Squires Bingham Model 20; the differences are in stock or chassis, barrel, sights and other cosmetic details.)

Honestly an article on the original Squires Bingham Model 20 should be started and Armscor M1600 and Armcor AK22 merged into the article as subsections. -- Naaman Brown (talk) 16:02, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • No, The Squires Bigham Model 20 is a separate Firearm than the Armscor M1600 which is separate from the Armcor AK22 . The later 2 having more parts in common as they were created with different outer body shells to appeal for a design look they copied(if poorly under detailed observation) for the M-16 and the AK-47 in a .22LR caliber for cheaper shooting and a less powerful cartridge. The first page Armscor M1600 needs to be built up and out, the second Armcor AK22 needs the information restored that was deleted and better photos of the magazines. No one has even made the page for the Model 20 (although someone should), which simply viewing the schematics and/or someone having a basic familiarity with these firearms, would easily agree that they are different. This page needs work and images and had most of the content improperly deleted, then an editor calling for speedy deletion. The question why the hate and cancel culture? Wikipedia already erroneously misdirects AK-22 this models name, to the WASR-22 (an ak-47 variant chamberin .22LR ) , which was rechmabering for a training rifle later sold under numerous names by dealers, back when letters and words cost per piece in print advertising. That firearm's page title was eventually finally corrected. Maybe one day Ak-22 will actual point to the actual firearm by that name?
  • Under the above Naaman Brown (talk 's merge logic, should all Semi-automatic_pistol handguns that operate on a blowback method should be merged in John Browning 's FN_M1900 as they share similar design parts & functions, and/or every firearm that uses AR-15 accessories and parts should be merged in to that firearm's page? Even though made by different companies and with different designs. That merge suggestion lacks logic and if done , such should be counted as vandalism. Sharing parts & accessories aka interchangeability is in firearm makers best interests for faster design, use what works and has lost the patent due to age, along with adoption advantages for replacement parts & support (how many appliances and automobiles have interchangeable models across different makes and models?) and less risk for consumers having to buy proprietary parts and magazines. This does not warrant a merge down of multiple articles, and deleting articles is major problem of many wikipedian editors, since when the article is merged, that information is stripped & compacted (devalued), then some other editor comes along and "cleans up" (in good faith) the page farther stripping details about the separate subject that was merged and deletes more information from that section. What was once a detailed and educational page that maybe needed work(every page is improvable) to raise it to better a standard has been deleted, often eventually requiring a new page to be created and for that cycle to begin again. Losing in the details from people that wrote the original articles with first hand information. An example look at the article's edit history, for how Wikipedia editors that delete information instead of simply going to the internet archive website and fixing a broken cite link for example. There is far too much deletion and not improving and fixing. So under Naaman Brown merge opinion & logic , Should all pistols and rifles that use Glock Magazines be merged into the Glock's Page for having similar magazines? They share multiple parts. Some history for Wikipedians reading this that do not have first hand knowledge of the Armscor_AK22 , nor spent time to find original articles to get the facts on web pages now long gone.... Due to the starting, stopping and restarting of production (and various import cycles) of the Armscor AK22 caused price increases during those non production time periods for the magazines, prices rose highly compared to, where you could buy and adapt Squires Bigham Model 20's magazines due to their wider availability and far cheaper price. You could also buy larger capacity magazines than were being imported. Sharing magazines is common on most firearm manufactures for the same caliber and type of magazine, even if they change where the magazine catch is located on them. See the H&K G3 and model 91, CETME Models B & C and PTR Series for interchangeable magazines. Which have equally had unbalanced prices shifts where the cost for magazines that would work in the other and were vastly different for prices. This is no different than buying surplus Uzi magazines and using them in Colt's AR-15 in 9mm Colt_9mm_SMG instead of official colt, which is one of numerous semi automatic AR-9's (AR-15 Modern Sporting Rifle Design but in the 9mm caliber) pattern pistols and/or rifles than vary by the type of magazine used(Colt, Glock, Beretta being the most common) and which changes multiple primary parts from the M-16/M-4/AR-15 Family, while still using many of their parts and accessories as a Standard for comparability. That would also include the MAC-10 family with the firearms being designed to use cheaper in price surplus M3 mags, Uzi mags, and/or Sten mags instead of original factor design. In another comparison, if the above "merge" suggestion happens(or you feel it is valid....) then so should every page for each section of a car and every car part (and there are quite a lot of pages) should be merged into a 1 car automobile page? I argue not and the same logic & reasoning applies here. Another argument for not merging is how every firearm based of of the Mauser design, would then equally justified merged on to the Mauser firearm page, which would greatly lose many articles. Some needing work to raise their class, others that are good examples of what an article should hopeful contain for facts, information, pictures, citations, Notable and/or controversial issues, etc.2600:1702:1590:9A30:20DF:DA86:2020:A79C (talk) 10:32, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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