Talk:2023 MotoGP World Championship

WithU Aprilia RNF MotoGP Team

WithU is no longer a RNF Racing sponsor for 2023 season [23]. Should we remove the name "WithU" from the team's name? Lgrave (talk) 00:59, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

@Lgrave I boldly remove it since after all, Ballarin said it themselves, and Ballarin is a high-ranking official in Europe Energy S.p.A. ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 03:32, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Ok. Lgrave (talk) 08:08, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Sprint races in the championship tables

@Engr. Smitty Shall we really use superscripts for the sprint race results in the championship tables, instead of adding a second column for every round? It is not like F1, where there is only a few rounds got sprint race schedule (6 out of 23), sprint races will be added at every racing weekend this season. This is more like the schedule of F2 where a second column was included for every round in the championship tables (You may refer to the 2022 season). This can better demonstrate the results of the weekend. For example, Enea Bastianini was retired (Ret) from the sprint race and withdrew (DNS) from the race, whereas Pol Espargaró was double DNS. Any thoughts? Unnamelessness (talk) 03:18, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

@Unnamelessness The reason why I adapted the format they use in F1 articles is that the concept of MotoGP's sprint is actually almost the same as F1's sprint (except for the frequency of races). In F2's (and WSBK's) case, their sprint races are treated equally, statistics-wise, with the feature races. So any statistics recorded from the sprint races (or the Superpole races/race 2's in WSBK) are also added to the statistics recorded from the feature race (or WSBK's race 1). In MotoGP's case, sprints (they're actually not called "sprint races") are treated differently from the main race (just like F1). So to say that Pol Espargaro is a double DNS is technically incorrect because the race hasn't even been held yet (technically). Sprint winner Bagnaia's profile page has 12 points to his name for 2023, but 0 starts and 0 1st positions (which is correct because technically the race has not been held yet). For me, if we use a second column, it could give readers the wrong impression that there are two races per round (like F2, WSBK, or MotoE from 2019 until 2022), so some might expect or think that it is possible to have two race wins (or two of anything) in a weekend, which isn't the case in MotoGP and F1, where the sprint races are just another way in recording points (but not in recording other statistics such as starts and wins). ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 04:24, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

I would support the separate column, just for ease of reading. I understand the logic given they're not considered full races, but I would consider a note in the appropriate place noting sprint race wins don't count the same preferable, rather than having a table that is significantly harder to follow and that doesn't include the result of anybody outside of the top nine. Jq-22 (talk) 12:26, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

I fully understand your reasoning, but given the fact that the starting grid of the race is not determined by the sprints, we really can assume the sprints and races are independent. Unnamelessness (talk) 03:00, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

It’s not really about whether they’re independent or not (and that isn’t just determined by how to starting grid is made up) but by how they affect the championship. Sprints simply aren’t standalone races that fully count for the championship, unlike F2 and F3 sprint races, but short sessions of which the top positions merely yield some bonus points, just like in F1. Just like in F1 sprint positions have no meaning other than yielding some bonus points and are not used as tie-breakers in case of a tie on points between riders, manufacturers or teams. Hence they should not be given a seperate column, just like in our formula one articles. Otherwise, we’d be creating unnecessary confusion.Tvx1 23:20, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

There is a second race though, not to mention it makes the whole table look messy and way harder to understand then having separate columns, you are creating more confusion have it in superscript imo 81.157.109.64 (talk) 22:07, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Technically there is only one race (the race in Sunday) so a rider can only get 1 start, 1 pole, 1 fastest lap, 1 win, 1 podium, etc. from a race weekend. The sprint is not considered a race (or a Grand Prix) even by MotoGP. It's just a way to add bonus points. FIM doesn't even use the sprint results in determining winners in case of ties. ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 22:15, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Still doesn't change the fact that the table as it is is virtually unreadable and confusing 81.157.109.64 (talk) 22:36, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

At least better than this one, imo. Also, where do we get the results? MotoGP themselves don't publish a separate results table for the sprint. They publish results from both races combined already. Should we tabulate everything manually? ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 22:45, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

The NASCAR one is a million times better, plus they do publish results for just the sprints it is right here 81.157.109.64 (talk) 22:53, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

How come? They also use bolding an a bunch of superscripts. Whatever, something better is subjective.

Also, what I meant was the overall sprint results for the whole season, not just for one race lol. MotoGP only publishes a combined one like this. MotoGP doesn't have two tables for the sprint and main race: they only have one. Why separate it here in WP? Also, the reasoning for not creating a new column is the same reason for the practice they do in F1. Does it mean we also need a new format in F1 articles? ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 22:58, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

I don't mean a separate table just two columns for one weekend in the championship table, one for each race like F2, F3, WSBK and virtually every series that has more then one race a weekend, the PDF you link already does this underneath the combined scores 81.157.109.64 (talk) 23:15, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

It also unnecessarily withholds a quick overview of the finishing order beyond the points paying positions of the Sprints, and makes it very difficult to visually inspect how the riders scored in each Sprint. AddInfinty (talk) 10:34, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

These finishing order have no place in the championships tables, that’s the whole point. They do not fully count for it. The only thing sprints do is give some bonus points to a number of positions.Tvx1 23:16, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

I agree with Engr. Smitty and Tvx1. MotoGP "sprint" events are not sprint races like F2 or F3 but like the F1 event. Besides the championship points for the top drivers, they aren't important (or as important as the main race). So I don't think they should have a columm like the race has.Rpo.castro (talk) 11:49, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Mister Smititi please don't delete my work in sprint stading table championship 79.143.107.109 (talk) 09:48, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm new to seeing the table but I agree it isn't clear for seeing a riders result for the sprint race and a separate column would be clearer. The subcolumn for each event can have SPR and RAC as per MotoGP's own designation and abbreviation. A couple of arguments I've read don't seem to make sense to me in that 1) MotoGP also call the events Sprint in both their own media and results pages and even show the championship standings after the sprint and after the main race, and 2) that the sprint "fully count for the championship" when points from the sprint absolutely count towards the championship. A note to say that Sprint results don't count towards a riders stats (eg. race wins) would be clear. Ultimately none of this should matter as much as the readability of the table which 2 columns per event would be clearer.12Tome (talk) 11:26, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

@12Tome "It isn't clear for seeing a riders result for the sprint race and a separate column would be clearer" it has alrady been explained that the sprint is nothing but another way to just add points. It has already been said that sprints are in no way in the same importance as the main race. This is the same case as in F1, and that's why they're doing the superscripts thing in their tables (because main races > sprints, not because they only wanted to do it to not add additional columns).

"That the sprint "fully count for the championship" when points from the sprint absolutely count towards the championship". I think that was just worded badly. Yes, the sprint points count towards the championship, but the sprint standings are not used for countback (i.e. when riders are tied in points) and this goes back to the earlier statement that sprints aren't of the same importance as main races: they're just a gimmicky way to add points.

"A note to say that Sprint results don't count towards a riders stats (eg. race wins) would be clear." Already said here they have their separate stats.

"2 columns per event would be clearer." It might be, but would you really prefer a very wide table where not even half of the table would fit in you screen? ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 17:29, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

@Engr. Smitty Agreed it is "another way to just add points" and is not of the same importance but I, as others do, feel this would be more clearly displayed in a wider table. In the new view on a laptop the legend is already overflowing and the Grands Prix table above does overflow.

The table is to try to display data clearly and I don't agree that superscript is the way to display it clearly. In fact I think that the sprint results are basically hidden and look just like additional data like pole or fastest lap which is undervaluing the data which counts towards the championship. 12Tome (talk) 19:02, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

On the contrary. All the actual data that is of importance to the championships is included. The non points scoring sprint results have no importance whatsoever.Tvx1 23:19, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Sprint stading

please back thus table 79.143.107.8 (talk) 07:33, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Who are delete sprint standings what is l m work.They never be in wikipedia Vanja Nenezic (talk) 07:55, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

I worked in sprint stadings table championship

l worked in sprint stading table so please no delete Vanja Nenezic (talk) 07:57, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

@Vanja Nenezic Please see discussion above. If you want to add more why we should add the sprint standings, then explain yourself, that is after reading the discussion above. ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 14:12, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Motogp sprint stadings 2024 on Wikipedia

Please any body who can write in wikipedi.2024 be sprint stadings,motogp stadings,teams stadings,manufacturers stadings,rookies stadings,stadings independent riders,independent team 79.143.107.103 (talk) 09:16, 15 December 2023 (UTC)