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Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/December 2014

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December 31

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December 31, 2014 (2014-12-31) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

2014 Ibb bombing

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Article: 2014 Ibb bombing (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A suicide bombing in Yemen kills at least 49 people. (Post)
News source(s): Sydney Morning Herald, ABC News, Reuters
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Significant number of deaths, coverage around the world. --Everymorning talk 13:00, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] RD: Edward Herrmann

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No consensus to post. SpencerT♦C 22:25, 4 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Edward Herrmann (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Times, LA Times, Chicago Tribune,

Daily Mail
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:00, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] Shanghai New Year crush

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Article: 2014 Shanghai stampede (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 36 people are killed in a crush during a New Year's Eve celebration in Shanghai, China. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ At least 36 people are crushed during a New Year's Eve celebration in Shanghai, China.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Investigations into the cause of the Shanghai stampede are taking place.
News source(s): BBC NYTimes
Credits:

Article updated

 The Rambling Man (talk) 21:25, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion of the article's tile has been deferred to Talk:2014 Shanghai crush#"Stampede" vs, "crush", where it belongs. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:19, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The ITN blurb will reflect the article title. The article title should be discussed at Talk:2014 Shanghai crush#"Stampede" vs, "crush", not here. Thanks, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:19, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • I've added an alternative blurb that may prove less controversial.-RHM22 (talk) 06:19, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • NOw it sounds like they were celebrating inside a rock crusher or something. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 07:08, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Well, I guess you could just as easily say that 'stampede' suggests they were killed by a herd of cattle.-RHM22 (talk) 07:14, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
          • Where did you arrive from? A stampede is when a large crowd runs amok and in the process run over each other as well. In India, stampedes are known to happen in temples and other places and animals were not involved at all. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 07:19, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
            • Yes, that's the point: no one would assume that 'stampede' means that animals were involved, just like no one would assume that people were killed inside of a rock crusher during New Year celebrations.-RHM22 (talk) 07:24, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
              • As a speaker of British English, I disagree - a stampede does imply to me that animals were involved. This was a crush of people. Please do not assume that what Americans say is somehow automatically correct. 5.179.100.129 (talk) 08:34, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
                • If the term is indeed confusing or unknown to British English-speakers, then I'd say that's even more reason to use the original blurb or my suggested alternative. No one has yet explained why "crush" or "crushed" is offensive. As far as I can tell, we don't even know yet whether or not it really was a 'stampede,' which is one of the reasons why I'd prefer the more generic term.-RHM22 (talk) 17:02, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That is just your opinion. And now, thanks to you airing it, we all have that image. I don't see how this helps. AlexTiefling (talk) 18:31, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As a US-ian that's exactly what I thought a fatal crush was (the skin failing at one or more points causing bleeding to death, enough bone breaking to cause death, bruising to death, or any combination of non-fatal amounts of those thereof. It was only later that I learned that I found out it's thankfully not as quite as horrible but generally compressive asphyxiation, as said at the human stampede article. As cases of hundreds dead have existed, that is a misleading picture. I have heard that most students in China are taught English, and that it's American English, so let's not make it harder on readers who might've known the "crushed" than it has to be. It's much worse to picture that image if it was your wife or something. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:00, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'm not discussing the article title; I'm discussing the wording of the blurb. Please do take note before condensing my comments in the future. There are many, many ITN items in which the article title isn't used (did everyone forget about the CIA 'torture' report?), so I don't see why the choice here is apparently very obvious.-RHM22 (talk) 17:30, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I have also added a bit about the Fake currency from a Reuters article. I guess maybe it could be added to the blurb? --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 07:21, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose based mainly on article quality, but also because I think it would be good for ITN to make a resolution to be less deathy during 2015. Agree that "stampede" would be a bit insensitive. Formerip (talk) 11:52, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on article quality. Event seems notable enough though, this sort of thing doesn't happen often. There shouldn't, however, be any censorship of this based on what the event is. 331dot (talk) 12:48, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Front page news on international news sites. High death toll. Not sure why we should try and make bad news look nicer. AlexTiefling (talk) 12:54, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support — Partly as a counter to EWP's perceived Anglo-European-centrism. Re terminology, I note that our article on the Khodynka Tragedy begins, "The Khodynka Tragedy was a human stampede...." IMO, the phrase human stampede best describes what happened (on a smaller but no less tragic scale) in Shanghai. Sca (talk) 15:32, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Please keep discussion focused on the event's suitability for ITN. The discussion about wording will be taken into account, but the point has been made. Thanks, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:02, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • You could also say "X people were trampled to death" but I'll leave it to others to decide in a term. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:20, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • But I would say that crush does sound disrespectful and that people aren't actually crushed to death but are unable to make their chest rise, which is needed for breathing. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:27, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Well by that maxim, people aren't shot to death, they bleed slowly through holes in their body and perhaps suffer multiple organ failure. Time to get a grip here and realise that we're about reporting reliable sources, not kitsch personal opinions on what is purported to be "disrespectful" (especially as tens of thousands of sources have reported people being "crushed to death" in the past month). The Rambling Man (talk) 22:41, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
          • In a country with a long history of standing-up football crushes and judicial death by "crushing" everyone knows what this means but in American (and apparently Indian and Chinese) varieties of English the plain meaning is some kind of inelastic compressive material failure. Something has to break, the skin, bones, tissues (bruising) or people will think the British term a bit exaggerative, blase, and gratuitous. Some might not even realise that not having 400 pounds of lung strength is the cause of death. Everyone knows what "shot to death" is though, knows that blood loss is one of the usual reasons, and it's not as bad a death as your entire body being squeezed like a grape. See we're not familiar with article titles like 2014 Shanghai crush (that sounds like a basketball team) but may have seen this drawing which only 12 died in making death by structural damage seem plausible. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:10, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as long as the article is improved. Mass fatalities like this at New Year's events are unusual enough to begin with—I don't think anything like this has ever happened at Times or Red Square. Having it occur in the main tourist area of the largest city of the world's most populous country exponentially increases its news value. Daniel Case (talk) 15:43, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Irrelevant discussion
    • This is because Times Square separates the crowd into pens surrounded by empty space that bear an opening and presumably aren't so hard to dismantle that no one could make an extra opening quickly. The safety-unconscious Third World should look into that. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:41, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • China is not a third-world country by just about every economic measure, and its health and safety regulations and protocols for an all manner of things (such as crow-control and food standards) is improving with time (but these are just laws and protocols, the health and safety culture out there is still filled with complacency and downright laziness!)--Somchai Sun (talk) 17:24, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
          • My relatives always called their country a third world country and they barely have less GDP per capita than China. The Shanghai Tower, Shanghai Maglev and continental length Mach 0.3 trains make the first world jealous but it's still a $7,000 US/year country. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:26, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Your second-hand accounts of your relatives in some other country that's not China are not a reliable source. Do you have any reliable sources, or are you just trying to confuse the issue with unnecessary linguistic quibbles? AlexTiefling (talk) 18:31, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well third world country, second paragraph, first sentence says the term isn't well defined. And older people like my relatives/parents actually remember the Cold War and gave me my preferred term for levels of country poorness. Americans my age think it's nitpicking that older people say a third world country can't be communist. Why don't we be more accurate and call them a 2½ world country?.. I wasn't intentionally obsfucating. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:42, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Historical footnote: This sort of thing did happen in Moscow 60+ years ago: On March 9, 1953, in Red Square, outside the hall where Josef Stalin's body lay in state, "hundreds" of people were crushed or smothered to death in a human stampede, according to various unofficial sources (never officially confirmed). Sca (talk) 17:06, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Admin note: Consensus is safely established for posting, and discussions on tangents aren't very helpful. What's needed is an expansion of the article, then this can be posted. Thanks, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:33, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Un-marking as ready. Article still needs expansion. What's there is a goo start, but I'd like to have something a bit more substantial to post. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:55, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • What an insult to the article creators, calling their work "goo". :P --AmaryllisGardener talk 22:57, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Admin note I'd still like to know why discussions regarding the wording of the blurb are 'irrelevant' or tangential. The choice of which blurb to use (assuming one of two suggested is chosen) seems quite relevant to this discussion. I have no interest in changing the title of the article, nor am I suggesting that here, so I'd prefer that my suggestions regarding the blurb (and not the article title) not be condensed along with some of the other, unrelated comment strings above. After all, no one has even proposed a blurb using the word 'stampede,' so I'm uncertain how that's been definitively decided.-RHM22 (talk) 23:36, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
          • What something like at least 35 people are pressed to death in a Shanghai crowd of revelers. Or at least 35 die from compression in a Shanghai New Year's celebration/party or something like that. Those sound like they probably just couldn't breathe and didn't die from mangling. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:28, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • @RHM22: Respectfully, I collapsed it because the quality of the discussion seemed to be deteriorating and because nothing is happening until the article is improved. Perhaps you could add a suggestion to to the nomination template? Generally, the posting admin will use their discretion on the blurb, and it will be tweaked by other admins or via WP:ERRORS as necessary once it's up. To use an analogy, I'd rather get the wheel re-invented first, and worry about what to call it later. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:48, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is a significant event given the amount of deaths, the world-relevant location, and international media coverage. I think that the article has been improved enough to post. Mamyles (talk) 18:43, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As a contributor of the article, I think the article is now ready to be posted. I've suggested alt2 and marked it as updated. Zhaofeng Li [talk... contribs...] 04:54, 3 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Post€d] Lithuania adopts the euro

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Article: Lithuania and the euro (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Lithuania becomes the 19th member of the Eurozone. (Post)
News source(s): [9]
Credits:

Article updated

 Formerip (talk) 19:44, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

AFAICT, that's at 10 pm UTC. Formerip (talk) 20:07, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] New Year's Honours

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No consensus to post. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:36, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: Joan Collins (talk · history · tag) and Mary Quant (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former Dynasty actress Joan Collins and fashion designer Mary Quant have both been made dames in the 2015 New Year's Honours. The actor John Hurt is to become Sir John Hurt. (Post)
News source(s): ITV news The Guardian (full honours list)
Credits:
 --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 12:09, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 30

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December 30, 2014 (2014-12-30) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime
  • A court in Moscow hands down a 3+1⁄2-year suspended sentence for corruption to Alexei Navalny, a prominent anti-Putin activist. (The Denver Post)
  • In three separate, but connected, crime scenes in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, a suicidal man kills eight people and then himself. (Irish Times)

[Closed] RD: Christine Cavanaugh

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Older than the oldest RD. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:49, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Christine Cavanaugh (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN The Guardian USA Today
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Voice actress who voiced Babe, Chuckie Finster in Rugrats, and Dexter in Dexter's Laboratory among numerous other roles. Andise1 (talk) 06:11, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] Palestinian draft resolution fails in U.N. council

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No consensus to post. SpencerT♦C 22:24, 4 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: United Nations Security Council (talk · history · tag) and United Nations resolution (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The United Nations Security Council rejects a Palestinian resolution calling for Israel to withdraw from Palestinian territories by late 2017. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Australia and the United States vote against a Palestinian resolution calling for Israel to withdraw from Palestinian territories by late 2017 in the UN Security Council.
News source(s): [10], [11], [12]
Credits:
Nominator's comments: UN votes down statehood for Palestine. --BabbaQ (talk) 23:36, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. It was a Jordanian resolution, not a Palestinian one. And I think we should talk in terms of it "failing" rather than being "rejected" or "voted against" - these expression may not be technically wrong, but they are a bit misleading given that more members voted in favour than against. Since no-one at all expected this to pass, I'm not sure it's really significant enough, in itself, for ITN (although I'm not quite unsure enough to vote oppose). Formerip (talk) 23:50, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. This is approximately the 42nd time in roughly forty years that the US has vetoed a resolution dealing with the Palestinians. There is no surprise here, including the fact that US told everyone that they were going to veto this one as well. If the US had actually agreed to pass something, then that might have been news, but the failure to pass anything just perpetuates the status quo and I don't really see how the failure to change is at the level of significance required for ITN. Dragons flight (talk) 23:55, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. An unsurprising result of pure political theater, as the US was certain to veto it. 331dot (talk) 23:57, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Dragons flight. -- Calidum 01:37, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose anything against Israel will be rejected by the US etc, and even if it isn't, Israel pay no heed to UN mandates. Disappointingly, this is a non-starter. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:38, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support any support for rights-respecting classically liberal countries instead of fascist/leftist resolutions is so rare nowadays as to be worth noting as encyclopedic and simply amazing. μηδείς (talk) 23:02, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Clearly this needs to be on the front page, because there seems to be widespread misconception. The resolution was not vetoed by the United States; the two opposing votes plus abstentions by the Britain, Lithuania, Rwanda, Nigeria and South Korea meant that it fell one vote short. It is the first and only time that Australia has opposed a resolution in its two-year term. Hawkeye7 (talk) 04:22, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • It would have been vetoed had it gotten the nine votes. That was a certainty, meaning that this was an exercise in political theater. I don't think Australia exercising its ability to oppose something is notable enough for posting. 331dot (talk) 11:47, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] RD: Luise Rainer

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Article: Luise Rainer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC, The Telegraph
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 09:49, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Typically blurbs are only posted for deaths where the death itself is an event, usually (but not always) a surprising death, or when the person was essentially at the tip-top of their field. I don't think either applies in this case. 331dot (talk) 08:38, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 29

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December 29, 2014 (2014-12-29) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

[Posted] December 2014 Cameroon clashes

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Articles: December 2014 Cameroon clashes (talk · history · tag) and Boko Haram (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 83 people are killed in the aftermath of clashes between the Cameroonian military and Boko Haram militants. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Both articles updated

Nominator's comments: An escalation of Boko Haram incursions into Cameroon, threatening to further destabilize the region. --Catlemur (talk) 23:32, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. This is an clear escalation.--BabbaQ (talk) 18:53, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've un-marked this as ready for the time being. I think more discussion is needed. Thanks, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:54, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

One more support since you unmarked it. Just to re-mark ;).--BabbaQ (talk) 18:56, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Admin note: The article's a bit short, and a few more comments would be welcome. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:48, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

December 28

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December 28, 2014 (2014-12-28) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

[Closed] Large expansion to Beijing Subway

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No consensus to post, which is a shame because we seldom recognise such feats of engineering. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:17, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Beijing Subway (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Line 7 of the Beijing Subway and expansions of lines 6, 14, and 15 begin operation. (Post)
News source(s): CRI
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: 48 new metro stations opened on a single day is extremely rare anywhere in the world. We normally do not cover infrastructure articles, particularly positive ones that do not have to do with disasters, so this would be a welcome change to ITN. We posted a similar story about the Beijing Subway in December 2009 (or was it 2010) so there is precedent. --Colipon+(Talk) 21:47, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

NATO ends ISAF

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Articles: International Security Assistance Force (talk · history · tag) and War in Afghanistan (2001–present) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ NATO officially ends 13 years of combat operations of the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan. (Post)
News source(s): DW, Al Jazeera, BBC and others
Credits:

 --Jenda H. (talk) 13:20, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Whether you or anyone take him seriously is irrelevant; it is what it is. Most RS are phrasing this as the war being over. The troops remaining are not there to conduct a war. 331dot (talk) 12:55, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Also, wait until orange-tagged missing references are resolved on both bolded articles. Mamyles (talk) 19:02, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think the ISAF article is more accurate. --Jenda H. (talk) 17:24, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't complaining about the blurb, but about the non-story. The Taliban is strong and resurgent, with the recent attack on the Pakistani school, Posting this would be like posting a superbowl headline, in overtime, loosing team takes ball and goes home. Of course that would probably be more newsworthy than an "end" of operations in Afghanistan. There's also the fact that other than here I haven't even seen the headline. Then look at our end of operations in Iraq. This is a policy announcement, not an historical event. μηδείς (talk) 18:41, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] MS Norman Atlantic

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Article: MS Norman Atlantic (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Ten people are killed as the Italian ferry Norman Atlantic (pictured), carrying 466 people, catches fire in the Adriatic Sea. (Post)
News source(s): BBC News Online, BBC News Online
Credits:

Article updated

 --Mjroots (talk) 11:59, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Latest is that one person died, ferry under tow to an Albanian port. Mjroots (talk) 17:18, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
BBC News is reporting the rescue effort is complete, but 7 people have died. Bob talk 16:25, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Updated to 8 as per BBC News. Bob talk 17:58, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Official death toll has now risen to 10, but still some discrepancy between passenger manifest and survivor count. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:21, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Why does it need to be a "major disaster"? Surely the successful rescue of around 480 people is just as newsworthy? Mjroots (talk) 22:11, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
In a more just world, it would be. Sadly the reality is that this is out of the headlines pretty much already, whereas if it had sunk with mass loss of life it would dominate the news for weeks as did the Costa Concordia, for example. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:24, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
WP:LASTING seems to be more relevant to the existence of the article, which isn't what is being discussed here. People can also have good faith differences about what constitutes "encyclopedic impact"; obviously the nominator feels it does. 331dot (talk) 22:09, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If we shouldn't have an article on a news story per NOTNEWS, LASTING, whatever, ITN should not be including that stor just because it is otherwise in the news. (Please note: I'm not saying this necessarily applies to the article here in this case - as most major mass transit/transportation accidents with death tolls get articles on WP). --MASEM (t) 22:19, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
IMHO, it is far too early to know if WP:LASTING will apply. What we have here is a five year old ship destroyed by fire, ten deaths and 450+ rescued. Mjroots (talk) 22:23, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
(ec)I agree with that, but the existence of the article is not at issue on this page. RGloucester should nominate the article for deletion, which would then be an issue to consider here. That said RGloucester does not have a crystal ball to know what impact this will have in the future or how it will be considered historically or encyclopedically(whatever that means). 331dot (talk) 22:26, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I don't need a crystal ball. Ships sink. What else is new? RGloucester — ☎ 22:30, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, ships sink. Of many kinds. 331dot (talk) 22:32, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and unless the manner of sinking is significant, or the people onboard are significant, or the ship itself is significant, the sinking is not significant. None of those apply here. Fire breaks out on run-of-the-mill ferry in rough seas. Again, what else is new? RGloucester — ☎ 22:36, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Which is why I oppose posting it to ITN, but I think the article has merit. As I said, you are free to nominate it for deletion if you feel it does not merit an article. As Mjroots said it is far too early to know if LASTING applies here. Neither one of us knows. 331dot (talk) 22:40, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know why you are talking about deletion. I never used the word "deletion". I merely took advantage of one of the event criteria, as a way of demonstrating my reasons for opposing posting it to ITN. It isn't too early at all. RGloucester — ☎ 22:45, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I am talking about deletion because WP:LASTING or any other notability issues are issues to be dealt with in a deletion discussion discussing the existence of the article. If a deletion discussion is open, that is certainly an issue here. 331dot (talk) 22:48, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The article is very likely to survive an AfD nomination. Mjroots (talk) 23:15, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Again, no one even suggested an AfD nomination, so I don't understand why this is being discussed. RGloucester — ☎ 23:20, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Again, I am saying you should suggest one as the proper venue for your views. 331dot (talk) 23:53, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I don't want the page deleted, so how is that my "view"? I merely don't want it posted to ITN. RGloucester — ☎ 23:56, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You cited notability issues like WP:LASTING with this subject and said it had no "encyclopedic impact", which I presume means that you don't think it's notable enough for Wikipedia. If that is wrong, I apologize. 331dot (talk) 23:58, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"People die. What else is new"? Martinevans123 (talk) 23:22, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I wouldn't exactly call this minor, but I understand the hesitation. It's not as significant as an airplane crash (which we normally post), but it's more significant than a bus crash (which we usually don't). Death toll in the (low) double-digits, plus a sizable and mostly successful rescue operation. I say post. --Bongwarrior (talk) 22:38, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I say post. Per the sizable rescue efforts, media attention and still a few deaths.--BabbaQ (talk) 22:50, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's been very much in the news, and it's a sizable rescue operation. We've btw posted a similar story (burning ship in that area) a few years ago, though that rescue operation had greater success. Narayanese (talk) 09:12, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm boldly marking this as ready. I think that there is enough support to override the objectors (reasons, not quantity). The article itself is in a good shape. Needs an independent review and a decision. Mjroots (talk) 10:25, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Good. This should be posted.--BabbaQ (talk) 18:27, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and it seems like they carried a high number of illegal immigrants that are still uncounted for. --BabbaQ (talk) 18:41, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]


  • Posted. I agree that the support overcomes the opposition by strength of argument even if not numerical superiority. I note that several of the opposes were made while the story was still breaking, and that the story has—possibly against expectations—continued to develop since then, which appears to be the reason that the majority of the more recent comments are in support of posting. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:40, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull obviously no consensus, and 10 deaths in a ferry accident is rather small, considering their frequency and number of passengers. Very similar to the December 2013 Spuyten Duyvil derailment which was rightfully not posted. There's no indication of any log term effects beyond the deaths, like a criminal prosecution or bankruptcy. μηδείς (talk) 19:26, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
While I did post support of this above, I agree with Medeis that (in the future) it is preferable to wait for stronger consensus, even if that means a blurb does not get posted. Mamyles (talk) 21:24, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
There was a full two days of discussion, story development, and article development. I marked the story as "ready" to give indicate that it eas time for a decision to be made. Consensus is not merely a !vote count. The strength of the arguments for and against posting should be taken in to account. The first comment was "Wait", I had no problem with that. Waiting was the correct thing to do in this case. We waited, the situation became clearer, the article made it to the MP. Had HJ Mitchell said the the article was not to be posted, then I would have accepted his decision without whining about it. Editors must realise that there are some you win, some you lose; and move on whichever way the result goes. Mjroots (talk) 22:05, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Indonesia AirAsia Flight 8501

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Article: Indonesia AirAsia Flight 8501 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Indonesia AirAsia Flight 8501 (pictured) goes missing en route to Juanda International Airport in Malaysia (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Indonesia AirAsia Flight 8501 (pictured) goes missing en route to Singapore with 162 passengers and crew aboard.
News source(s): CBC, NBC News and others
Credits:

 --Kevin Rutherford (talk) 04:00, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Indonesia's search and rescue agency head has said they are 95% sure the debris is from the plane. [15] 331dot (talk) 08:22, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
[16]. Think we should update the blurb to state that "Wreckage of the missing Indonesia AirAsia Flight 8501 (pictured), carrying over 160 people, is found in the Java Sea in Indonesia." --MASEM (t) 17:20, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Just a note that the blurb was updated today through a message on WP:ERRORS. Mamyles (talk) 21:28, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 27

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December 27, 2014 (2014-12-27) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

[Posted (Ongoing)] 2014 Southeast Asian floods

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Article: 2014 Southeast Asian floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ More than 200,000 had been evacuated in Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand in the 2014 Southeast Asian floods. (Post)
News source(s): Al Jazeera, The Straits Times
Credits:

 --Muffin Wizard 09:56, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, I agree with that. :) ~ Muffin Wizard ;) 01:48, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the improvements, David Levy. I've added your name to the updater list above. Mamyles (talk) 22:58, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, and I apologize for not noticing those issues. I did see that the article was well referenced, and I was a little blinded by that. --Bongwarrior (talk) 23:21, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks guys, and especially to David Levy for making copy-edit to the article. ~ Muffin Wizard ;) 00:36, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Tomaž Šalamun

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Article: Tomaž Šalamun (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): RTVSlo RTVSlo Huffington post Poetry Foundation Delo
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 --Tone 17:12, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As of now, there are no reports on the reason of death, I checked several sources. I don't think more information will appear. --Tone 16:13, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm satisfied with what is there now, especially if it seems unlikely more information will come out. 331dot (talk) 02:53, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Six-party agreement on budget (averted crisis and snap election)

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No consensus to post. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:18, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2014 Swedish Cabinet crisis (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Sweden avoids a snap election in 2015 after the two political blocks comes to an agreement following a six-party talks on future . (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Löfven announces that there will be no snap election in 2015 after the two political blocks comes to an agreement following a six-party talk on future .
News source(s): [18], [19], [20]
Credits:

Article updated
 --BabbaQ (talk) 15:10, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 26

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December 26, 2014 (2014-12-26) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Sports

[Posted] RD: Leo Tindemans

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Article: Leo Tindemans (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deredactie, BBC, Independent, Daily Mail
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:30, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] December 2014 Assam violence

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Article: December 2014 Assam violence (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A militant attack on native tribal people and subsequent retaliations in Assam, India kills more than 85 people. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Indian Government launches a major offensive after 85 native tribals are killed by Bodo militants in the North-eastern state of Assam.
News source(s): BBC India Today Hindustan Times The Times of India USA Today
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: More than 80 people selectively killed makes it a very significant event. Widely reported in India and internationally as well. Please note that the blurb can be modified if it seems badly written. Thanks, --ƬheStrikeΣagle 15:32, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Rsrikanth05 I've linked the article after they raised it! :) Cheers, ƬheStrikeΣagle 17:53, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, ok. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 18:57, 26 December 2014 (UTC)`[reply]

December 25

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December 25, 2014 (2014-12-25) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Businesses and economy

RD: David Ryall

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Article: David Ryall (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): (RFE)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 doktorb wordsdeeds 08:49, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Gleb Yakunin

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Article: Gleb Yakunin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): (RFE)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 --Bruzaholm (talk) 13:57, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • "Support major dissident, reformer and politician, but article needs more reference work. μηδείς (talk) 17:01, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support I believe that he is of great significance in Russia. However, after reading both his article and the cited news source, I am not confident that he has significant recognition abroad. Nonetheless, his achievements/contributions are interesting and could be interpreted as being on-par with other recent names in the RD space. Mamyles (talk) 17:30, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Mamyles: Just FYI, though often helpful, there doesn't have to be recognition from abroad as long as the person meets the recent deaths criteria. 331dot (talk) 17:45, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Not to criticize you, but just to make it clear, the guidelines above address this: "please do not...complain about an event only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post..." Your statement was obviously in good faith, and you were not complaining, but the spirit of the guideline is clear — Preceding unsigned comment added by Medeis (talk • contribs)
Fair point, thank you. I will keep that in mind when considering future RD nominations. (As an aside, I'm surprised at the limited number of submissions for RD given the liberal criteria.) Mamyles (talk) 19:25, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support upon article work per Medeis. Seems important to Russia. 331dot (talk) 17:45, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, 1. He may be of importance in Russia, but I doubt he has any elsewhere. 2. His death was not a surprise (the article states that he suffered from an illness for a while before his death at 80 years old). 3. The article is not in a very good state, it doesn't have enough inline citations for verifying things like his early life and his wife and children. All of this combined tells me he shouldn't have a place at RD. --AmaryllisGardener talk 19:22, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • @331dot: I read your discussion, and I said he "may" be of importance in Russia, I'm not sure of that, even. The not-surprising death is not a big thing, it just adds to my list. The most important one is number three. The article needs a bit of expanding also, IMO. --AmaryllisGardener talk 04:19, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The not surprising death is why we have RD. Surprising deaths get full blurbs. Yakunin, a well known cleric, dissident, and reform politician certainly meets the prima facie requirements for an RD listing. μηδείς (talk) 04:21, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, you're right. But like I just said above, not the biggest concern of mine. --AmaryllisGardener talk 04:24, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Wait a second. Per Medeis or by Medeis? JackofOz and Любослов Езыкин, among others, are fluent in proper Russian, I am not, and it is close to bedtime for me. I can look at English sources tomorrow if I am not busy in the real world. My Christmas guests are arriving Sunday. μηδείς (talk) 04:19, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Let me emphasize that (1) I am at my parents' in the New Jersey Pine Barrens for the week, and the DSL has been off 80% of the time, and (2) I am babysitting three children under 10 years of age, so I am quite busy, too busy to get to this article myself before it will be stale. μηδείς (talk) 04:15, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 24

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December 24, 2014 (2014-12-24) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents
  • Russia declares a state of emergency after oil from a Russian oil pipeline spills into the Black Sea near the port of Tuapse. (Reuters)

International relations

Law and crime
  • Xinhua reports that on December 21 Chinese police in Guangxi shot dead one person and detained 21 others. China considers the group to be "religious extremists" who were trying to cross the border into Vietnam. (Reuters)

Bharat Ratna

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Article: Bharat Ratna (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Pandit Madan Mohan Malaviya are awarded Bharat Ratna, India's highest civilian award (Post)
News source(s): Economic Times
Article updated

Nominator's comments: The recipients would be conferred the award in-person in a customary Presidential ceremony in January/February next year. They have been awarded officially by the President of India. [1] Regards, theTigerKing  17:45, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Reason- Rarely awarded + Prominent people (Not necessarily Indians) awarded/conferred with the title. Regards, theTigerKing  18:44, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

They have been awarded actually [2].
It was in discussion last time also. But it made to ITN :) Regards, theTigerKing  18:24, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The point is that they are very scarcely awarded...45 in 60 years.....so they are extensively covered whenever awarded.. ƬheStrikeΣagle 18:29, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Would move this suggestion to an ITNR thread as we have seen such arguments coming up while taking up the case of Bharat Ratna for ITN-R.Regards, theTigerKing  18:44, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Why is a civilian award in any way less notable than a military one? AlexTiefling (talk) 22:13, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: I'm afraid I am a bit suspicious of the motive behind this award. The lead of the award's article sayas that the Prime Minister nominates recipients. Looking at the two recipients, the first died in 1946, so he won't be attending the ceremony in February. But based on his wikipedia article he seems to be a worthy recipient. The second recipient however is the founder of the party that was elected to power this year. He was also the Prime Minister until the party lost power in 2004. It is very convenient that he be nominated for this award just a few months after one of his proteges comes to power. To give an American equivalent, imagine if a Republican president is elected in 2016. Then imagine that president awarding Franklin D. Roosevelt and George W. Bush with "America's highest civilian award" in December 2017. Sure the first guy is probably a worthy recipient, but is not here to actually receive it. So that just leaves us with the other guy... Would we put that on the front page of Wikipedia? AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 02:46, 25 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose self-congratulatory partisan action per Athomeinkobe. μηδείς (talk) 04:03, 25 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • SupportVajpayee is a living former PM who is being awarded a Bharat Ratna when he is NOT the PM as in the case of Indira Gandhi/Jawaharlal Nehru. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 13:39, 25 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support it's a bona fide civilian award, which has been presented only a handful of times in a country with a population of over a billion. I don't really see any justification in the opposition who make basically no argument other than either straw man arguments ("suspicion over motives"? Your personal opinion regarding the motivations of the awarding panel is fascinating but entirely irrelevant in this case...) or plain nonsense (e.g. "wtf"). The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 25 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
After taking your comments on board, I thought that perhaps I read too much into the circumstances of the award based on my own preliminary research. So I just tried a google search of "Bharat Ratna" to see what has been said about the decision, and the first two news results were:
"NDTV Vajpayee, a Bharat Ratna? Unfair"
"The man who implemented Mandal: Why VP Singh deserves the Bharat Ratna more than Vajpayee"
Granted these are opinion pieces, but it appears that at least some people who are interested in Indian politics (I am not) have concluded that this is a political move. There is no meniton of an "awarding panel" that I can find; this appears to be a decision taken solely by PM Modi. The first article listed above says "Prime Minister Modi is on a mission to carve an alternative iconography.", and the second says "Those who wanted Vajpayee honoured invariably belonged to the BJP, which, now heading the Central government, has conferred the Bharat Ratna on him."
So, with respect, I think it is not a straw man argument. But isn't India's population irrelevant? A government award given to a former leader of the ruling party at the first available opportunity looks like a sham to me, regardless of whether the country's population is a thousand or a billion. On the other hand, you could say that finding someone more worthy than your former boss is easier in a country with a population of one billion. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 06:49, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
So what if it is a political move ? Is there any policy/guidelines/precedent to support this as a reasonable criteria against displaying it on main page?--Vigyanitalkਯੋਗਦਾਨ 07:22, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
None at all that I am aware of, but I'm still new here. I'm just giving an alternate view to this whole "one in a billion" story. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 10:12, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia should have existed when Rajiv Gandhi was given a posthumus BR. If you are going to take that NDTV piece at face value [ehich quite frankly is written by someone who has been anti BJP], then things are just going to go haywire. --12:07, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support Bharat Ratna is awarded not frequently and both persons who received are important persons in history of India. Vajpayee is also well respected in opposition parties too. There would be controversy wherever politics is involved. -Nizil (talk) 16:30, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Big award, given rarely, well reported. WP should not be checking any political motives nor is it our job to check if the recipient deserved the award. Many of the Nobel peace prizes won't find place in ITN going by that criteria. --Vigyanitalkਯੋਗਦਾਨ 04:10, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. We don't post the recipients of the Presidential Medal of Freedom, Medal of Honor recipients, British/Commonwealth honors, etc. So why post this? -- Calidum 04:15, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I don't see any more reason to post this than to post awards of other countries' top honours, which we don't tend to post. Neljack (talk) 07:57, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question on rarity: There were just awards last year? And every parliamentary term apparently gets at least one: apparently only the parliaments elected on 1967, 1977 and 2004, out of 16 general elections, didn't get to give out awards. I would've been more convinced of its rarity if they were truly sparingly awarded, not at least once by every parliamentary term. –HTD 14:25, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I'm not seeing why we should post this top civilian award when we don't post others. It also doesn't seem that rare in terms of how often it is awarded. Further, just because the award is given to people important to India does not mean that the awarding itself is ITN worthy. 331dot (talk) 14:42, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    We don't post other top civilian awards? Perhaps we should, and the fact we haven't ought not to be a stick with which to beat this nomination. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:47, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Killing of Antonio Martin

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Not going anywhere. Let's move on. Seattle (talk) 02:01, 25 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2014 Ferguson unrest#Antonio Martin (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Police in Missouri, USA kill another black teenager, Antonio Martin, provoking community unrest. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, 24 Dec 2014
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Important to the continuing story of anti-black police brutality in Missouri following the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson and the killing of Eric Garner in New York. -Sumana Harihareswara 15:29, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Scale of the protests? There is video of the man brandishing a gun and accordng to the Independent, "the chief of St Louis County Police, said Mr Martin, the young man who was shot dead, was “known” to the force and had been arrested three times since he was 17. He said the incidents involved armed robbery, assault and the illegal use of a weapon." We're not about narratives here, we're about facts. μηδείς (talk) 18:14, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 23

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December 23, 2014 (2014-12-23) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Businesses and economy
  • Keurig recalls 6.6 million coffee making machines after ninety reports of burn-related injuries. (CNN)

Disasters and accidents

Health
  • The FDA says that in regards to the 31-year-old policy against gay men making blood donations it will recommend lifting the lifetime ban early next year, replacing it with a policy barring donations from men who have had sex with another man in the previous 12 months. (AP)

International relations

Politics and elections

[Posted] RD: Edward Greenspan

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Article: Edward Greenspan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CTV; CBC: "legal pioneer"; National Post: "Legendary"; Wall Street Journal Law Blog: "Legend of Canada’s Criminal Bar"
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 --Aerospeed (Talk) 21:18, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jeremy Lloyd

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Article: Jeremy Lloyd (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [21]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Lloyd was one of the most respected comedy writers in British television, jointly responsible for writing the hit comedies Are You Being Served (and it's follow-up Grace and Favor) and Allo! Allo!. --1.121.182.7 (talk) 05:41, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted to RD] K. Balachander

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Article: K. Balachander (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Indian film director and producer K. Balachander dies at the age of 84. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Indian film director, screenwriter and producer K. Balachander dies at the age of 84.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Indian filmmaker K. Balachander dies at the age of 84.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Indian filmmaker and screenwriter K. Balachander dies at the age of 84.
News source(s): The Times of India Outlook BBC Variety The Telegraph (India) The Peninsula Namibia Press Agency The Nation (Sri lanka) New Straits Times
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Recipient of India's highest film honor along with 9 National Film Awards. Please note that the article was updated by multiple users and there's no clear single majority updater. Thanks, --ƬheStrikeΣagle 17:08, 23 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

First launch of Angara A5

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Article: Angara (rocket family) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Russia's first Angara A5 is launched successfully from the Plesetsk Cosmodrome. (Post)
News source(s): spaceflightnow.com
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: This is a first launch of the most powerful Russian rocket. 24.5 ton capability to LEO. A significant event for astronautics and an expansion of Russian capabilities. --Hektor (talk) 12:31, 23 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 22

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December 22, 2014 (2014-12-22) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections
  • A federal land swap in Arizona green lights the US's deepest (1.3 miles) and largest (1.6b tons) copper mine. (FOX News)

[Withdrawn] Internet shuts down in North Korea

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WITHDRAWN:

--George Ho (talk) 22:28, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: Internet in North Korea (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Internet in North Korea resumes after nine hours of losing Internet access nationwide.
North Korea experiences Internet shutdown nationwide. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Internet in North Korea resumes after nine hours of losing Internet access nationwide, despite many citizen's oblivion to Internet's existence.
North Korea experiences Internet shutdown on all of 1,024 IP addresses nationwide.
Alternative blurb II: ​ North Korea experiences Internet shutdown on all of 1,024 IP addresses nationwide, despite many citizens' oblivion and inaccessibility to Internet.
News source(s): CNNAP via Times of IndiaReuters
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: This may be a domestic issue, but I think this is globally significant. Who is able to contact NK people? --George Ho (talk) 01:26, 23 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


[Posted] RD: Joe Cocker

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Article: Joe Cocker (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Significantly well-known singer (has an OBE for his contributions). RD only as death at 70 by lung cancer. --MASEM (t) 18:18, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, it's a pain. You did it exactly right, as far as I can tell. --Bongwarrior (talk) 22:23, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
We will let you know if you "cocked it up on Cocker" :)--BabbaQ (talk) 23:50, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

2014 Glasgow bin lorry crash

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Article: 2014 Glasgow bin lorry crash (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ An out-of-control dustbin lorry in the Queen Street and George Square areas of Glasgow, Scotland, and kills six people. (Post)
News source(s): (BBC)
Credits:

Nominator's comments: This event has been major news across the UK this week. The deaths and today's church memorial service have dominated headlines on the papers. --Rcsprinter123 (say) @ 21:44, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 21

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December 21, 2014 (2014-12-21) (Sunday)
Arts and culture

International Relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

[Posted] Tunisian presidential election

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Articles: Tunisian presidential election, 2014 (talk · history · tag) and Béji Caïd Essebsi (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Béji Caïd Essebsi wins the Tunisian presidential election. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Reuters
Credits:

Both articles updated
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: The first regular presidential election after the Tunisian Revolution and the adoption of the current Constitution, according to the article. --Brandmeistertalk 11:21, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 20

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December 20, 2014 (2014-12-20) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Law and crime

Science and technology

[Closed] 2014 NYPD officer killings

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snow close, unanimous opposition μηδείς (talk) 19:17, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2014 NYPD officer killings (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Two police officers are shot and killed in New York City. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A man shot and killed two police officers in New York City in response to the death of Eric Garner and the shooting of Michael Brown.
News source(s): New York Times, Fox News, BBC, Christian Science Monitor
Credits:
Nominator's comments: These shootings have affected police across the United States (see Fox News link above). There are also thousands of articles about this story on Google News. [23] --Everymorning talk 15:51, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Erm, that might be overstating it just a little. Formerip (talk) 18:29, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 19

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December 19, 2014 (2014-12-19) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology
  • Scientists withdraw the January 29, 2014 claim that there is a simple way to convert normal cells into stem cells, which can be used for any part of the body. Nature had in July retracted its two previous articles after the disgraced lead researcher, Japanese Haruko Obokata, was found to have plagiarized and fabricated parts of the papers. (Reuters via FOX News)

[Closed] Cairns child murders

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No consensus to post. SpencerT♦C 03:50, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Cairns child killings (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Eight children are murdered in a suburb of Cairns, Australia, with one woman injured and hospitalized. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Eight children are killed in a suburb of Cairns, Australia, with one woman injured and hospitalized.
News source(s): Reuters, The Australian, The Guardian, New York Times, BBC, CNN
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Yet another fatal tragedy in Australia. It is being covered in news agencies in many different countries (see above). --Everymorning talk 14:13, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • weak oppose. This is certainly tragic, but I'm really unsure of how encyclopaedically significant it is/will be. The Guardian article linked above notes it as "one of Australia's worst mass murders" but I'm unfamiliar with the size of that field or where it ranks within it. I'll look back on this nomination later to see if other commenters and an expanded article can sway me towards supporting. Thryduulf (talk) 14:53, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for the nomination. It is very sad news, but per recent discussions, this is the type of article that may be better developed on Wikinews. For ITN, it is best to find situations where an existing, well-developed and significant article is connected with a news event. Jehochman Talk 17:03, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    Is this amongst the worst ever mass murders in Australia? If so then it's significant enough to warrant a discussion here (not to say your response implied anything otherwise).... The Rambling Man (talk) 19:13, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Is "murder" the correct term to use in the article title? Yes, it's likely to be a murder, but until someone is charged with murder, then it can't be? Compare with naming conventions of Murder of Joanna Yeates which was at Death of Joanna Yeates until it was confirmed as murder. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 20:40, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Of course it's a murder. Eight children don't get stabbed by accident or negligence. μηδείς (talk) 22:19, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW the article has been renamed to "Cairns child killings" following a short discussion at Wikipedia:Australian_Wikipedians'_notice_board#Cairns_Child_Murders. I've updated the template at the top. Thryduulf (talk) 00:06, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That still doesn't make any difference to any of us opposes, does it? --George Ho (talk) 00:14, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That would depend on the reason for your opposition, but probably not. A change in the title of the main article is something that is always worth noting though, as it can change people's opinions. Adding an altblurb is also often worth a mention in the comments so that people are aware that it exists. Thryduulf (talk) 00:53, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 18

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December 18, 2014 (2014-12-18) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
  • Gumsuri kidnapping
    • News emerges, after survivors reach the city of Maiduguri, that suspected Boko Haram militants stormed the remote village of Gumsuri in north-eastern Nigeria on December 14, killing at least 33 people and kidnapping about 200. (BBC)

Business and economy

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology

[Closed] RD: Mandy Rice-Davies

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No consensus to post (he would say that, wouldn't he?) BencherliteTalk 09:07, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Mandy Rice-Davies (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Article has no major flaws and is minimally updated. Rice-Davies was a central figure in the Profumo affair. --Jayron32 14:25, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Boko Haram capture and kill Nigerians

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Articles: 2014 Gumsuri kidnapping (talk · history · tag) and Boko Haram (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 32 people are killed and about 185 people are kidnapped by Boko Haram in Nigeria. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Nigeria, 32 people are killed and about 185 people are kidnapped by Boko Haram.
News source(s): CNN NBC News NPR Al Jazeera
Credits:

Both articles updated

Nominator's comments: Large kidnapping and killing of Nigerians by Boko Haram. It is currently late where I am so I am not able to create an article on the specific situation, but I have linked "Islamist insurgency in Nigeria" as a target article for the time being. I have now created an article on this event. Andise1 (talk) 09:16, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging Adpete. --George Ho (talk) 01:14, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I think that's sufficient. However can I suggest that "2014" gets added to the title (i.e. 2014 Gumsuri kidnapping). Not because I expect another event (I sincerely hope and pray not) but because it gives a more meaningful title. Adpete (talk) 07:48, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I moved the article to 2014 Gumsuri kidnapping. Andise1 (talk) 07:21, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
We must add details about the incident in that article first. --George Ho (talk) 01:23, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's probably quick enough to do because the text can be harvested from the new article, and the old one provides a lot more context. Jehochman Talk 01:24, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
To administrators: The prior votes are based on the main blurb before the alt blurb was added a few minutes ago. --George Ho (talk) 01:35, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Never mind; I de-bolded Boko Haram because it's not updated yet, but I modified blurbs. --George Ho (talk) 01:37, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Jehochman, I have updated the Boko Haram article, so I bolded "Boko Haram" to your pleasure. We need something newer than Indian spaceship. --George Ho (talk) 23:20, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] First launch of GSLV Mk III

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Articles: Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle Mk III (talk · history · tag) and Crew Module Atmospheric Re-entry Experiment (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ ISRO launches successfully the Crew Module Atmospheric Re-entry Experiment with the first Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle Mk III. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ India's first Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle Mk III is launched successfully, carrying the crew vehicle demonstrator CARE.
News source(s): Times of India The Financial Express
Credits:

Both articles updated
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: This is a first launch of the most powerful Indian launcher ever. Plus a major step for India towards becoming the fourth space power with crew transportation capability, with a demonstration of a full-scale crew module. --Hektor (talk) 07:57, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

George Stinney murder conviction vacated

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Article: George Stinney (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ South Carolina vacates the conviction of George Stinney, the youngest person executed in the United States in the last century. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ 70 years later, South Carolina vacates the conviction of the youngest person executed in the United States in the last century, George Stinney.
News source(s): New York Times article, New York Times editorial blog, NBC News, WIS-TV, Huffington Post, ABC7-TV, Google News search showing 300+ articles under 'explore in depth' for the search 'George Stinney vacated and international coverage in Norway, Sweden, the UK(1) & UK(2), Australia, the Czech Republic, Finland, Viet Nam, The Netherlands, Germany, Italy, Taiwan, Poland, Denmark, Turkey, Spain, and in Spanish out of Tehran
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Notable decision, and the subject of significant coverage. Stinney is a 'record holder' as the youngest person executed in the US in the 20th century, and widely noted as thus. --Reventtalk 11:25, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • That's a great effort you did, but I oppose this. I don't see how this news affects Africans and non-American African diaspora, but I see how it affects those living in America. Also, perhaps we can try to nominate similar types of non-Americans. Many black men in America have been typically innocent of crimes in the past and the present. This is exciting but nothing new. --George Ho (talk) 11:39, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't about the most African person excecuted in the US in the last century, but about the youngest. Your argument amounts to America is racist and has nothing to do with the special nature of the case. μηδείς (talk) 16:52, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean racist? Am I generalizing or saying that I am better than blacks? I am not. Please prove me racist for saying something about how people of Africa are able to obtain such information about individual biographies of convicted African-American men from the past. I am unsure though whether Africans are aware in general of treatment on African Americans. --George Ho (talk) 20:19, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Parochial" apparently means not British? Historical might be a better criticism. And sensationalism is when the release some celebrity's baby's pictures. There's got to be a more accurate way to critique this than calling it sensationalism. μηδείς (talk) 18:13, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Have you seen me pushing to post any British stories? I didn't think so. RGloucester — ☎ 20:58, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 17

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December 17, 2014 (2014-12-17) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sport

[Withdrawn] Sony cancelling of The Interview amid terror threats

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WITHDRAWN BY NOMINATOR:

--George Ho (talk) 22:38, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Articles: Sony Pictures Entertainment hack (talk · history · tag) and The Interview (2014 film) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Sony Pictures cancels the theatrical release of The Interview following terrorist threats made by the same group that hacked Sony in weeks prior. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The United States link the group that hacked Sony Pictures Entertainment to the North Korean government after Sony cancels its theatrical release of The Interivew amid threats made by the same group.
Alternative Blurb II: The FBI blames hacking by North Korea for bringing Sony Pictures to cancel release of The Interview and production on current projects.
Alt Blurb III: The FBI formally blames North Korea for hacking and threats that forced Sony Pictures to cancel release of The Interview and production on current projects.
News source(s): BBC Variety NYTimes (on NK involvment) BBC again Time re: White House response USA Today on FBI formal charges
Credits:

Both articles updated
Nominator's comments: This is a rather interesting piece of news, there's a lot of commentary about how the political stage and the entertainment world have collided in this. (For those not in the know, the issue is that the hack is possibly tied to NK due to the film's use of an assassination attempt on Jong-un, revealed from the Sony hack). For all we know this could be a bunch of kids playing around. --MASEM (t) 22:22, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Switch to oppose – This doesn't appear to have any real relevance. It's an example of stupidity on the part of Sony for ever allowing such a film to be produced. I've never heard of something more juvenile in my life. Regardless, the state of our knowledge about what exactly happened is much too murky for us to post anything now. If more details come to light, like an investigation, that might be worth posting. This, on the other hand, is not. RGloucester — ☎ 00:56, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alt blurb to reflect the US gov't statement. --MASEM (t) 00:27, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose alt blurb due to the nature of these accusations. Neutral on the main blurb, however. By the way, I nominate this for DYK, but this shouldn't affect my vote. --George Ho (talk) 00:30, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • DYK-qualified? Possible. ITN-qualified? Never. Oppose both blurbs. Some parody film wouldn't reach Main Page, but the hacking situation would. For now, let's wait for more developments and then re-nominate. --George Ho (talk) 01:00, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Opppose. With three "p"s. The notion of a credible terrorist threat linked to this film is so transparently preposterous. It's just studio PR exploitation of the gullible. Don't get me wrong, I wish them well and hope it works, but there's not reason for us to collude in it. Formerip (talk) 00:38, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • I very much doubt this is a media ploy [27] unless sites like the NYTimes are in on it. --MASEM (t) 00:40, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Considering all of the damaging info that came out from the Sony Pictures Entertainment hack, including racist emails and personal info of movie stars, I think it's safe to say this isn't a PR stunt. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:46, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • It's totally plausible that Nk is linked to the Sony hacks. It's also plausible that some random moron has sent hoax threats to cinema companies. In fact, you can probably rely on that happening. What's not plausible is that NK is about to sponsor suicide attacks on movie theaters or that Sony would take the notion seriously. It's just opportunist PR. Formerip (talk) 00:47, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
        • That's not accurate. Sony pulled it because most (all?) of the major theater chains refused to show it on the premiere night. I doubt they found the threats credible, but they recognized that many potential moviegoers would and would likely stay away from the theater. There is absolutely no chance whatsoever that all of this is a PR stunt.-RHM22 (talk) 04:59, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This is highly unusual for an American film to be pulled for terrorist threats. I don't think there is any basis to the claim this is just some PR stunt. -- Calidum 00:41, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm leaning support but only if the blurb focuses on the North Korean sanctioning of the hack. That North Korea is behind this makes this more important than just a film studio pulling a film release. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:44, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Why taking US Government's words so seriously? There are other suspects, like other competitors. --George Ho (talk) 00:57, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • Even if it was other competitors, such an attack would be unprecedented in the film industry and (I would argue) would be worthy of an ITN blurb itself. --PlasmaTwa2 01:10, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
        • The initial comment and resulting debate is precisely why I'm against posting at this time. My personal view is that I'd be amazed if this was not direct North Korean action, but that's nothing more than a logical conclusion based on the (admittedly pretty overwhelming) circumstantial evidence. History tells us that when the story is big enough, initial assumptions get tested extremely quickly, and we tend to get an inkling of whether they are correct or not quite soon after the story hits crunch point (which in this case will be over the next 24 hours).

          If this were a physical story (for instance if a shooting or bombing had been carried out with the warning that it was just the tip of the iceburg), I'd have already supported this regardless of how confident I was about the origins. But recent events have shown that it is possible to conduct exceptionally impactful cyber attacks and campaigns without the sort of state or organisational support that would be necessary for a physical attack such as 9/11 – if consensus is that the story's importance hinges on whether there was direct state action or whether the threats were viable, then I think it's a little bit too soon to post. —WFC— FL wishlist 05:52, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support given the American government has linked the attack to North Korea and Sony has gone from saying they will delay the film's release to they have no plans to release it, a lot of the issues brought up by other contributors saying to wait are no longer valid. This is a first in film history and certianly in the news, so I don't see why it should not be in ITN. --PlasmaTwa2 01:10, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • The government has not enough proof that North Korea is responsible for these hackings. Featuring the alt blurb on the Main Page while the US government has circumstantial evidence is degrading. As flawed as ITN may be, how would some NK spy without sufficient knowledge of Japanese and English languages be technologically wise? --George Ho (talk) 01:17, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • I should clarify that I prefer the original blurb to the alternate one which focuses on North Korea. Admittedly, if people are going to be unsold on whether the NK angle is true or not, there still remains the fact that a major film company has outright shelved a major movie a week before its release date because of terrorist threats. It is a unique and unprecedented event in film history, and certianly encyclopedic. --PlasmaTwa2 01:21, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Not that i was planning to go watch the movie but this just became a blatant surrender to random unknown hacker turned terrorists. This highlights the fear that these guys can produce just by posting a simple message online. So much for freedom of expression -- Ashish-g55 01:29, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is either exceptional or it isn't. If this is fear caused by a bunch of guys posting a simple message online, well, we've had that debate countless times and have always come down against posting, regardless of how big an effect they have – if this were an individual or small number of individuals the right time to post would be when the follow-up reaches a conclusion (be that their conviction, asylum in a country that wants to annoy the US, the film finally being released having concluded that the threats were not viable, and so on). If on the other hand this is state-sponsored cyber-terrorism with the direct political intention of curtailing freedom of speech in the United States, then yes, that is huge and we should post this in the very near future. Your answer suggests that you are in the same boat as me, you have hunch, but at this point you're not sure what this is about. —WFC— FL wishlist 07:48, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Shutting down a foreign film through threats of hacking seems quite significant. -- Ypnypn (talk) 02:55, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose because it is a start class article of low importance. This just isn't a significant event yet though something might change. Perhaps there is a story "US accuses North Korea of hacking Sony". Think about reframing the nomination. Jehochman Talk 03:49, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support even if the movie seems to be a bit moronic, this is only case that i know about a film release being cancelled altogether due to terrorist threats. I find that fairly serious. SeraV (talk) 05:26, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait, and oppose if an admin decides that it is appropriate to make a decision in the next eight hours or so, for reasons I'll explain further down.

    To post this without being quite confident that this is ITN-worthy would undermine our reputation for NPOV. I certainly agree that to cancel a major film release due to what appears to be a non-Islamic, state-backed terrorist threat is at least worthy of consideration here. I certainly agree that the fact that the premiere was due to be shown in New York, that the threat specifically referenced 9/11 and that Canadian as well as American cinema chains refused to screen gives the arguments that this is ITN-worthy extra weight – there are certainly circumstances under which I could be convinced to support.

    But I think a bit of time is needed to digest the fallout here. Is this a temporary postponement or in effect a complete cancellation? Was this state-sponsored or an exceptionally able group of amateur Western hackers? Will the cinemas change their mind if the US public quite strongly takes the Jimmy Kimmel approach to the story? We all have presumptions on those things, but then again everyone made assumptions in the immediate aftermath of the JFK assassination and Oklahoma city, which very quickly turned out to be way off the mark. The to those questions will in my mind determine whether or not this should be posted, and we probably need to wait until the Thursday news cycle is in full swing in the US before we have a good grasp of the answers to those questions. —WFC— FL wishlist 05:33, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose After thinking about it for a while, my opinion is that this isn't significant enough for TFA, although I personally find it very interesting. I see it as (presumably) Korean hackers making (probably) hollow threats, but which are reported widely enough to cause potential theatergoers to reconsider, which in turn caused movie theaters not to show it. North Korea threatens to destroy, decimate, demolish South Korea and the United States regularly, which I understand is different from a specific threat, but it does speak to the lack of credibility and suggest that the reactions from Sony and the theaters are probably based in commercial considerations rather than any real concern. If the blurb is featured, though, it should probably relate more to the U.S. accusations against N.K. than the film being pulled, because those are certainly far more likely to influence future events than the absence of a comedy film from American theaters. I hope it does get to DYK as mentioned above, though. It's one of the more interesting news stories in a while.-RHM22 (talk) 07:30, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose click bait entertainment hype of the worse kind. Story based on none specific claims, not evidence based. Not significant enough. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 11:48, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose unless the blurb reads more along the lines of "Company concedes to terrorists". Looked like an appalling movie in any case, so no real loss there. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:26, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support., Major company writes off a multi-million dollar production as a result of an act of hacking, almost certainly an unprecedented action. Subsequent effect on the indurstry as another production is cancelled even before it starts Independent. Further escalation of tension between Japan-NK and USA and that's before we get to the implications on freedom of expression. 81.86.140.189 (talk) 17:39, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    There's certainly been a fivefold increase in traffic at the movie's page over the last day or so, I give you that. But otherwise it's more sabre-rattling and Sony using the Streisand effect. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:45, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If Sony are using the Streisand Effect for publicity they must be quite smart in getting the US government to support them. I suppose you have a source for this assertion? 81.86.140.189 (talk) 19:59, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Interesting and unusual, with ramifications beyond the entertainment industry. There's no need for us to be so nitpicky here; this is easily as significant as just about anything else we post, and quite a bit more significant than some. --Bongwarrior (talk) 18:02, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm glad you added the qualifier, after all, the shooting of over 130 children is probably more notable than a shite American movie being canned as Sony are playing the big game. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:08, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It probably wasn't going to win an Oscar, but your opinion of the quality of the movie (which you haven't seen, obviously) is irrelevant. And nitpicky. --Bongwarrior (talk) 18:17, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I don't agree. It was a crass and stupid movie, a stupid idea and a stupid thing for us to even consider. The idea that we advocate posting something which is basically "let's give in to terrorism" may be your bag, but certainly isn't mine. I wonder how Americans would feel if the Russians made a mainstream movie about ridiculing and assassinating Obama. In summary, let's agree to differ on this point. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:31, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Point of information: A movie was made depicting the assassination of George W. Bush. 331dot (talk) 20:41, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I should have clarified, "what if a crass, unfunny joke movie was made about the depiction of the assassination of Obama by the KGB" rather than the rather skilful piece of cinema you've noted? The Rambling Man (talk)
Point of information: Terms such as "crass and unfunny" are usually subjective, and in this case certainly cannot be applied when the movie has not even been released to the general public.--WaltCip (talk) 21:10, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know, perhaps they haven't released audio clips of the movie in your country, but they certainly have in mine, and to say it was a pointless, tasteless, crass load of junk is an understatement. But your mileage may vary. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:16, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Stupid or not, what does this have to do about the ITN worthiness of this? --AmaryllisGardener talk 21:18, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if it was a significant piece of art or an acclaimed documentary that was being attacked, that might be a loss. However, the halting of the release of a low-grade juvenile film that should've been left on the cutting room floor is not much of a significant loss. In fact, many would say that, if these were North Koreans, they've done us all a favour. RGloucester — ☎ 22:49, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
And anyone supporting the alt blurb must prove that the US government is correct about the NK's capabilities. --George Ho (talk) 20:33, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's a fairly weird ask. Original research from users can not be compared to a statement from US government. it is not the job of ITN to ensure US Government isnt lying. If they say NK is involved then ITN can say "US government says NK is involved". It is not original research whereas insinuating that this is a publicity stunt by ITN users is (without reference atleast). -- Ashish-g55 20:47, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I guess the question comes from where the so called credible threat of NK terrorism exists? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:51, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
From the sources, the reason they are linking this to NK is 1) a statement the NK ambassador stated in July strongly critical of the film and considering it an act of war, and 2) that the tools/methods that were used in the hack are ones that NK gov't sponsored hackers have used before. I'm sure there are more details that the FBI/NSA have that we'll never be privy to, but I doubt the White House would make such a statement if they didn't think there's something credible to the claim NK is involved (even if just sponsoring the hackers). --MASEM (t) 22:37, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Wide reporting of this story does not affect or influence the quality of this nomination's blurbs. As is, does a Canadian, Australian, or British person have a reason to believe US Gov's words or see a movie that will be potentially poorly dated in the next ten years? --George Ho (talk) 23:03, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's good enough as a Portal:Current entry, but we have already posted blurbs about deaths of Robin Williams and Philip Seymour Hoffman. And we already posted the Sydney hostage situation, which resulted just two or three deaths, including the gunman himself. Perhaps the ITN needs reform proposals from someone experienced with ITN. --George Ho (talk) 23:26, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Because they all got consensus to post. This will be posted too if it gets consensus which it seems to be leaning towards already. -- Ashish-g55 23:49, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
We don't know that yet. We are awaiting administrators' comments. --George Ho (talk) 23:53, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I say post it. The passage of a little time has shown that this story has stayed ITN, even intensified. Also, this sort of thing, where Hollywood capitulated to a foreign threat, has not occurred ever, or perhaps not since before WWII and Hitler. Abductive (reasoning) 02:47, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
abductive, how has the hacking reached the threatening levels of WWII or Hitler? The hackers haven't bombed another country yet, and they haven't declared war yet. Am I reading a paranoid hypothesis that is improbable? --George Ho (talk) 02:53, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hollywood self-censored some depictions of the Nazis and Hitler prior to WWII. Abductive (reasoning) 03:45, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
To use your own discretion is the diametric opposite of being forced. These studios were not forced to take any actions. To equate editting your own work with having the government cut or prohibit it is like calling suicide execution. μηδείς (talk) 05:08, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
So that makes this incident even more notable. Abductive (reasoning) 06:26, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Why would the North Korean government try to invade any country besides China (whose alliance is falling apart), South Korea (which NK never recognizes), Japan (long-time enemy), Russia (possibly the only ally), and the United States (an enemy whose leaders and politicians have become corrupt and dependent on whoever manipulates the general public, like the press)? Why Vietnam, the Philippines, or any other? NK doesn't have any militarily-strong ally yet besides China and Russia. --George Ho (talk) 04:07, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Hollywood" has not capitulated. Sony was faced with a film which theaters didn't want to exhibit, so it has delayed the film's release. Also, on Weds they government was saying that an announcement of who was responsible would be made Thursday. Then on Thursday they backtracked, saying they will make an announcement Friday on their conclusions and response, in other words a face-saving Friday news dump, about 18 hours from now. μηδείς (talk) 03:09, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps you don't understand the meaning of the word "Hollywood". As for the order in which theater chains and Sony caved in to the threat, how is that germane? Abductive (reasoning) 03:45, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Cinema chains are not part of "Hollywood". RGloucester — ☎ 03:52, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Is this a joke, Abductive? The movie industry in Los Angeles is not Sony, and Sony realized it could not make a profit with so many theaters declining to show the film, so they have delayed its release, since the advertising budget would be a loss. But thanks for the personal insults, it makes it so much easier just to ignore you as unable to reason, rather than waste further time attempting to convince a dead horse. μηδείς (talk) 05:08, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I hate to break this to you, but have you forgotten that Sony owns American film studios, Columbia and TriStar? --George Ho (talk) 05:39, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
To be clear, Mr Ho, it is an American subsidiary of Sony that owns those studios. This American subsidiary usually operates independently of the Japanese company. However, in this case, the Japanese owners stepped in to make the call, for a variety of reasons. Regardless, the cinema chains that refused to screen the picture are not "Hollywood", they are separate corporate enterprises. RGloucester — ☎ 06:21, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Wow. Think: there is no unified entity called "Hollywood". So then it can be defined as the entire production and distribution system for American films. The theaters are part of that, and just because they proved to be the weak link in the chain does not change the fact that the threat worked. Abductive (reasoning) 06:26, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Rightfully, they took a stand against juvenile rubbish that no one with even a slight bit of propriety would tolerate. Of course, that wasn't their reason for cancelling the picture's release. It doesn't matter, though, because the end result was good. It is quite simple, though. One must take responsibility for the rubbish one produces. If one is going to produce rubbish, one must be prepared for a bit of a beating, whether from film critics or dictatorial regimes (is there a difference?). RGloucester — ☎ 06:32, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Don't post this, because the film sucks" has to be one of the most stupid ITN rationales that has ever been conceived for a film that has not even been released yet. On top of that, you are forgetting how subjective that film critics of certain time periods can be; recall that The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly was released as a critical flop. Seriously, when did a blatant POV become a valid rationale?--WaltCip (talk) 14:25, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Clips have been released, and I've read The New York Times' reports on the matter. The fact that you are comparing an epic saga of a western to a parody film that involves "exploding" the head of a world leader is quite concerning. The thing is, I love parody, when done tastefully. This was not tasteful. It is nothing like The Great Dictator, which is an example of parody done right. It was sensationalist, made to pull in money and draw in attention. It was not any kind of art. RGloucester — ☎ 15:17, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, the movie is a distasteful and juvenile attempt to get a rise of NK, and it has done. So well done, bed made, time to lay in it. Outside of further commercial hacking exploits, there's nothing here discernible to equate to "terrorism" or "potential terrorism" from NK. In fact, if anyone believes that, we're genuinely back to square one with the Cold War and paranoia wins. Reds under the bed and all that. Really? No. Not at all. Get over it US/Sony, your crap movie got owned. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:48, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have no opinion on the film itself (never even heard of it until these hacks started), and given the actors and concept, I wasn't expecting much from it. But we're not here to be critical of the film, we are here to determine if a story that the US gov't has now blamed another gov't for hacks and attempts at terrorism (remember, the group threated theaters that chose to show this, which is where the ball started rolling), has made it something on a political stage, not entertainment anymore. --MASEM (t) 19:52, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think the point is that you can make a really crass and offensive movie and expect the world to deride it and those offended by it to be offended by it, or you can make a decent movie whose possible censorship from others is actually genuine censorship because they don't like specific issues. In The Interview, we have a total crap-fest which is of no relevance to modern times, a comedy about assassinating a real living person? Do me a favour. Sony junked a junk movie, and have escaped a bomb. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:57, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
In other news, many theatres have refused to show re-release of Team America: World Police, and Paramount pulls it out as well. George Ho (talk) 06:39, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
what does that have to do with this item. if you believe US is just making all this up please prove it and show some references otherwise please give it a rest -- Ashish-g55 06:37, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Reliable or not, one personal website. --George Ho (talk) 07:03, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Name of the movie must be mentioned otherwise it will just look odd. Its by far the biggest part of this story. There is no reason to duck around it -- Ashish-g55 19:39, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Unusual, important, interesting, significant - however you currently measure ITN nominees, this story meets that measurement. I think this will last beyond a few weeks (with award season coming up, that's a given), so there's no worries about the story getting 'stale'. I believe it is perfectly within our current ITN policy guidelines to post it to the front page. doktorb wordsdeeds 19:20, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    Just a curiosity, what relevance does "award season" have with this movie? Has it been slated for an Oscar? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:23, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Major story of international political significance, as well as major story about IT security. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 19:35, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • To address Masem's concern about the blame, The FBI blames North Korea for hacking that has brought Sony Pictures to cancel release of The Interview and production on current projects. This is 23 words instead of 32. I don't think specifying the US FBI is necessary, given its widespread fame, and I don't think formally is necessary, since the FBI doesn't informally do anything. μηδείς (talk) 20:42, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • The only reason I added "formally" was because while we've had officials state things before today, the FBI has officially made it clear that NK is behind this, but as we are at ITN, it could be taken implicitly this is the case. Also I would make sure to be clear it was "hacking and threats", as that is how this became a serious situation. If they just hacked sony for details, I doubt there would have been this much attention to it. --MASEM (t) 20:51, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose great marketing campaign! The hack is notable, but a commercial release is of little importance, especially since the movie is intended to be some sort of comedy. Nergaal (talk) 21:22, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Omnishambles even Barack has said that withdrawing the movie was a mistake. This is now even more clearly a non-item, a lame and fundamentally depressing concession to the commercial implications of hacking a studio. To tacitly claim some kind of terrorist threat overshadows cinema goers is pure and golden bollocks: I, for one, don't fear the NK ninja on my high street, prove me wrong.... The Rambling Man (talk) 21:43, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose two additional blurbs. While a great improvement from the other altblurb, I'm convinced that, while we have made dead celebrities big news on Main Page, posting either nonsense from FBI could bring about big attention without quality merit and significance merit of news. Who can trust the FBI anymore after years of incompetence and lying? Remember the days of J. Edgar Hoover and spying on civil rights activists? --George Ho (talk) 21:46, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Let me be perfectly clear, GH. You are opposed because of a blackmailer with strange habits who died over 42 years ago? If this story were renominated as FBI announces it has discovered NK has caused 100's of millions of dollars in damage with a hacking attack it would instantly be posted. The movie has always been a side show, and the story should be posted because of today's developments, not because of one of the out falls. μηδείς (talk) 22:24, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'll give you another example: the FBI didn't prevent September 11 attacks. --George Ho (talk) 22:31, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I recommend closing this for now. The story is just too fluid to know what to post. After a day or two it might be possible to reformulate this in a way that it would gain support. Jehochman Talk 22:27, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • I was going to suggest that since I posted the story, many things have changed and would agree it would be better to start with a fresh nomination, after letting the news of at least today settle. --MASEM (t) 22:34, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


[Posted] Cuba–United States relations

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Article: Cuba–United States relations (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ American aid worker Alan Gross is released by Cuba after five years in prison, as a result of a prisoner exchange also involving the release of three members of the Cuban Five. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The United States and Cuba move to resume diplomatic relations as American aid worker Alan Gross is released in exchange for three members of the Cuban Five.
News source(s): The Globe and Mail, Fox News, USA Today, New York Times, BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Has major implications for relations between the US and Cuba. According to the BBC, for example, the US and Cuba are going to "start talks to normalise relations". --Everymorning talk 15:25, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 16

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December 16, 2014 (2014-12-16) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Science and technology

[Closed] 1 million mummies unearthed

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Nomination withdrawn. Thryduulf (talk) 16:30, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Fag el-Gamous (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Archeologists claim to have discovered more than a million mummies in an ancient Egyptian cemetery. (Post)
News source(s): International Business Times RT Live Science Economic Times
Credits:
Nominator's comments: There is no article yet (working on it). Major discovery and is the top story when I search "egypt" in Google. --Fitzcarmalan (talk) 14:49, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Please do write the article and submit it to DYK if it is not posted here. Jehochman Talk 15:04, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Withdraw - Yup, this is old news per Fram above, and apparently the archeologists still fail to confirm if the cemetery contains 1 million mummies. The story is very likely about the discovery of one child's mummy. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 15:28, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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[Ready] Methane and organics discovered on Mars

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Article: Atmosphere of Mars (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Curiosity rover detects a tenfold spike in methane levels in the atmosphere of Mars and makes the first discovery of organic molecules on the surface of Mars. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ On Mars, the Curiosity rover detects a tenfold spike in methane levels in the atmosphere and makes the first discovery of organic molecules on the surface.
News source(s): NYT The Independent
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: The discovery of methane on Mars means either (1) life is generating methane or (2) there's a geological source that involves both heat and water, conditions hospitable for life. In the absence of a fresh source, methane on Mars is destroyed within a few hundred years. This is also the first time organic molecules have been definitively identified from a surface sample. Jehochman Talk 14:26, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. I don't know much about this story, but it seems to be basically that the amount of methane in the Martian atmosphere briefly increased to 7 parts per billion. Yes, that's billion with a b. Before considering this for posting, I think a clear explanation of why this might not be pure tabloid fodder is needed. Formerip (talk) 14:46, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    The second part, first discovery of organic molecules on the surface of Mars is the culmination of 40 years of research and multiple landers sent to investigate the chemistry of Mars. The methane discovery is significant because it's not the concentration, but the fluctuation from 0.7 to 7.0 ppb that indicates some sort of active chemical process, either methanogenic microbes or water + minerals + heat creating methane "burps". Either way it's a major discovery, about as exciting as things get in planetary research. The tabloid fodder is "signs of life discovered on Mars". We're not going there. This is a discovery of a magnitude that happens less often than once a decade, and will lead to further exploration (including possibly even a manned lander) to determine the source of the methane. Jehochman Talk 15:01, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Has anything new actually been discovered here, though? Methane in the Martian atmosphere seems to have been known about for some time and, although this may be the first time that the rover has detected fluctuations in the level, that doesn't seem to be really a discovery, since the alternative would be stable background methane, which is not possible. So this looks like an example of the rover just confirming things that were already known - and it probably does a lot of that. Correct me if I'm wrong. Formerip (talk) 16:14, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The prior measurements were suspected to be in error. These measurements are viewed as much more reliable. In science things tend to move by small steps, and are rarely "true" or "false"; rather, there is always some doubt and chance that things can be overruled. At this point, the methane measurements are certain enough that there is scientific consensus for the first time that something is happening on the surface of Mars, not just a few organic molecules falling in meteors and being broken down to methane by UV radiation. Secondly, this is the first time that organic compounds have been conclusively found in a rock sample, and forward contamination by the probe has been ruled out. Usually we won't publish a story when it's just speculative; we say wait for conclusive proof. The current news is one about conclusive proof. Jehochman Talk 16:22, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If this is correct, then the linked article would need updating to reflect this prior uncertainty before we can post. The way it reads at the moment, there has been consensus that the atmosphere on Mars contains fluctuating levels of methane for at least a decade. No dissenting opinion or reason for caution is mentioned. Formerip (talk) 16:51, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Russian financial crisis

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Article: 2014 Russian financial crisis (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Central Bank of Russia (pictured) raises its benchmark interest rate from 10.5% to 17% as the Russian ruble rapidly declines in value against foreign currencies. (Post)
News source(s): WSJ
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: The large and fast decline in the Russian ruble has had a major impact on the Russian economy, both on consumers and on the companies who must repay their foreign currency-denominated debt. It has also had a notable impact on global financial markets. Hello32020 (talk) 04:08, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Its more of an ongoing event albeit a slow one. i dont think any particular news about Russian crisis is worth posting unless Putin decides to leave Crimea -- Ashish-g55 04:42, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, strongly. Russia is one of the biggest economies in the world, not to mention a nuclear power. The developments for the last few days there have been quite dramatic, and are already having significant economic and political impact, both in Russia and internationally. Nsk92 (talk) 05:36, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – The global economic (and potentially political) consequences of the economic collapse of Russia are certainly worthy of ITN. This is exactly the type of item we should post. I think the blurb should make clear that the interest rate was raised to stop the rouble declining in value, but that it did not work at all, and that rouble collapsed shortly afterward. RGloucester — ☎ 06:25, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Major story, international impact. Jusdafax 06:36, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I nominated this for DYK, but this should not affect my votes. As is, some interest rate hike wouldn't reach the levels of biggest news, despite support arguments. The ruble fell from 35 rubles per dollar in February/March 2014 to 65+ per dollar in December 2014. There are other attempts to stabilize the ruble as interest hikes are not the only one. (Maybe I realize the difference between "(not-so-)deadly" Sydney hostages and the troubled Russian economy. Never mind the violence.) Since we're talking Russian economy, I must say that Indian rupee is as valuable as Russian ruble... right now. Id est, one Rupee is one Ruble. I must oppose this sensationalism. I wonder if Russian economy will be all right; India and Russia signed multiple deals on improving economy by rebuilding infrastructure and more power plants and defence and other kinds. --George Ho (talk) 08:20, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Almost forgot, one Chinese yuan is 10 Rubles; one American dollar is 12–16 Mexican pesos. You see? WP:NOR discourages original research in articles, not talk pages. Russia can easily trade India and China with currencies that are convenient for each other, while the West can kiss each others'... well, I don't know how will the West survive as long as three giants (excluding Brazil and South Africa) can easily trade without worries. --George Ho (talk) 08:30, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is a misunderstanding of what a financial crisis means. The ratio of one currency to another doesn't mean anything much - what is important is how that ratio changes, how volatile it is, and how well it balances prices between countries. One Japanese yen is worth barely one US cent, but the two currencies tend to follow each other quite well, so import/export between Japan and America is quite strong and investors in the US tend to feel safe investing in Japan and vice versa. In Russia at the moment, the ruble has fallen very quickly and is very volatile (yes, even in relation to the Indian rupee), which increases import prices and scares away foreign investment (why should an Indian investor put their money in Russia right now, when they have no idea what the ruble-rupee rate will be six months from now?). That's why the sudden crash is an important story. Smurrayinchester 09:19, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This BBC News story might help to explain the issue a little more - Apple have suspended sales in Russia because the rouble is too volatile for it to set prices. Thryduulf (talk) 12:00, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. George Ho's comments seem to miss the point that this story is about the dramatic fall of the Rouble and the hike in interest rates, rather than speculation about future trade partnerships. Whatever the long-term significance to the economy turns out to be, there will be a long-term significance - my limited knowledge of economics tells me that instability of a currency is not regarded as a good thing. Russia is a major player on the world stage and so this is getting a lot of news coverage. Thryduulf (talk) 08:40, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean? What are other countries depending on the Russian ruble besides China and India? Lower value would mean buying Russian imports, but, with Putin in the way, high tariffs will be added among his enemies. --George Ho (talk) 08:45, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Extra! Extra! Russian ruble recovers to 64 Rubles per dollar... Still not enough to change your minds? --George Ho (talk) 08:55, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Good point. I'll request speedy deletion on my DYK nomination. I can't prevent this from being part of ITN, but even such a blurb is better than no blurb at all. Switching to neutral (unless more opposes come through) and crossing out my comments. If it's big news, it's big news. At least it has some significance. --George Ho (talk) 10:26, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Gained a bit Wednesday. Sca (talk) 14:18, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
How does that differ from a dead dog bounce? Sca (talk) 22:42, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I dont' think 'collapse' is the word used, it is a word used. Many of the articles I read simply refer to a decline, a drop or similar word. As an encyclopedia we should avoid any hyperbole or unnecessarily vague info. The ruble dropping from roughly 35 against the dollar to around 60-65 against the dollar isn't really a collapse by any commonly understood definition of a currency collapse.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:53, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Jehochman, a better wording would be: "In an attempt to curtail the rapidly declining value of the rouble, the Central Bank of Russia (pictured) raises its benchmark interest rate from 10.5% to 17%". I think it needs to be made clear that the reason they raised the interest rate was to attempt to stop the decline, as the techno-jargon might not imply that. RGloucester — ☎ 16:09, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I reworded it based on your excellent suggestion, RGloucester. I think that "rapid decline" is a bit more encyclopedic than the somewhat sensational "plummet."-RHM22 (talk) 16:28, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Dov Charney fired as American Apparel's CEO

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WP:SNOW
this is unlikely to gain any meaningful consensus. No need to keep it open any longer--Jayron32 03:31, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Articles: Dov Charney (talk · history · tag) and American Apparel (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Dov Charney (pictured), founder of American Apparel, is terminated as the company's CEO after months of suspension. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Dov Charney (pictured), founder of American Apparel, is terminated as the company's Chief Executive Officer after months of suspension.
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Both articles updated
Nominator's comments: So much violence. So little peace. This should bring us more peace of our minds. --George Ho (talk) 22:46, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hey, would this be the first CEO firing ITN would ever post??? ETA: This is apparently the same guy who insinuated that ITN should only feature "globally significant" events. –HTD 22:48, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't insinuate that. I checked my comments at project talk page and here and found none explicit. Anyway, immigrants working in the company's places are affected by possible replacement news. I don't know how this is not globally significant to you, but we'll wait for others. --George Ho (talk) 23:02, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Re: Your statements at WT:ITN -- well... okay. If you say so. However, if you want some piece of happy news, I humbly suggest to pin the globally significant 2014–15 Los Angeles Lakers season to the "Ongoing" section (#lol). –HTD 23:24, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Politically connected guy gets fired after millions of dollars in settlements paid and 17 losing quarters? I'd oppose this even for RD. μηδείς (talk) 23:04, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose American Appeal is not that large of a company. If it was something on the order of a Microsoft or McDonalds, under the same conditions, that might be something, but I'd still have to consider it carefully. As Medeis suggests, this should not be a surprise to anyone that was watching their economic performance. --MASEM (t) 23:46, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Doesn't seem significant; as Masem says, this isn't that well known a company. 331dot (talk) 01:11, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. This looks like it would have been news back in June, when Charney was originally removed as CEO, but now? Unsurprising termination after about six months of disgrace? Not news. Challenger l (talk) 01:57, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2014 Rada' bombings

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Article: 2014 Rada' bombings (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 31 people, including 20 children, are killed by two car bombings in Rada' District, Yemen. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ More than twenty people, including children, are killed by two car bombings in Rada' District, Yemen.
News source(s): CNN BBC Xinhua Le Monde
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Notable attack that has gained significant coverage. Andise1 (talk) 21:47, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support but we need to clear up the discrepancies in the casualty figure - CNN and BBC are giving different numbers of fatalities and child victims. Either we need to be vaguer or we need to wait for more information. Neljack (talk) 21:53, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I added the vaguer alt blurb for all of you. --George Ho (talk) 22:02, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The article should not be merged because it is notable on its own as shown by the reliable sources both in the article and available via a Google search. Andise1 (talk) 06:07, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:N, notability does not guarantee a stand-alone article. WP:MERGE should apply. --George Ho (talk) 06:10, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm convinced by RGloucester's rationale. Switching to neutral. --George Ho (talk) 22:46, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Rather run-of-the-mill for this region (sadly), doesn't seem to be particularly signifiant in a global context, or even in a regional one. In addition, the article is of a very poor and un-illustrative quality. I do not see why such an article should be featured on our main page. RGloucester — ☎ 22:09, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] 2014 Peshawar school hostage crisis

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Article: 2014 Peshawar school hostage crisis (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 126 people are killed when gunmen storm a school in Peshawar, Pakistan. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

 The Rambling Man (talk) 09:35, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  Working Posting to ITN. -- Tinu Cherian - 12:33, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  Done Updated . -- Tinu Cherian - 12:39, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Agree; media do attribute to Taliban. Reuters: "The Taliban ... immediately claimed responsibility." Sca (talk) 15:32, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 15

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December 15, 2014 (2014-12-15) (Monday)
Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

The end of 2014 Hong Kong protests

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Article: 2014 Hong Kong protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Hong Kong Police Force clears away protesters and their camps at Causeway Bay, ending the protests on occupied sites. (Post)
News source(s): Wall Street Journal, BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: I just want old news out of the way. I don't mind altblurb filled out though. --George Ho (talk) 04:23, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I think we should wait to avoid WP:OR, the protests have recently resumed after some break, so there's no need to pronounce them dead yet (as they may revive again). Brandmeistertalk 10:34, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I can't; there is no room in WP:ITN/R. --George Ho (talk) 19:02, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] 2014 Pennsylvania shootings

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Closed by Jehochman before we see more opposes. --George Ho (talk) 05:50, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: 2014 Pennsylvania shootings (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least six people are killed and three are injured in a shooting spree in Pennsylvania, United States. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ At least six people are killed and three are injured when a veteran suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder goes on a shooting spree in Pennsylvania.
News source(s): BBC, ABC, Fox, LA Times, Daily Telegraph, The Independent, USA Today, Reuters, Washington Post, Boston Globe, Wall Street Journal, Al Jazeera, CNN, El Pais, Le Parisien, Bild
Credits:
Nominator's comments: On a day when we posted a siege in Australia where two people and the gunman were eventually killed, the US trump it with a guy killing six, injuring three and going on the run. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:32, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I hope you're not being WP:POINTy. In case there is any doubt about my view, OPPOSE posting, OPPOSE article creation, OPPOSE crap imprecise article title, and OPPOSE this kind of queer behaviour even though I was against the Sydney posting. RGloucester — ☎ 20:38, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    Not at all. This is way more serious, at least six people have been killed and the perp is at large. This could go on a while with serious consequences. If you'd prefer to redefine the article title, please suggest such. (Oh, and what's "queer" about my behaviour? I take it you're using that term in its traditional sense?) The Rambling Man (talk) 20:41, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
OPPOSE turning Wikipedia into a theatre of the absurd. We are not a police blotter, by Jin(m)g(b)o! The word "queer" means "questionable" or "suspicious", or perhaps "odd". RGloucester — ☎ 20:44, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Understood. The shouting is unnecessary, but thanks for your explanation of your particular usage of "queer". Very traditionalist. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:46, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Not traditionalism, sir, but correctness. I believe I remember a certain Fry and Laurie sketch… RGloucester — ☎ 20:48, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, many will beg to differ, I certainly agree but you should be cautious about using such terminology. In any case, the shouting and bold is entirely unnecessary and diminishes your perspective. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:51, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I truly thought that this nomination was a ruse. I'm much more vexed now. I shall retreat. RGloucester — ☎ 20:54, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I hardly think the murder of at least six people with the gunman on the run is a ruse. Nor would I expect you to believe that I would game the system. How odd. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:57, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment incorrect closure: I didn't object to the posting of the Sydney siege, I said wait. This is a pointy close because apparently we now accept that six murders from a single gun-toting moron is just business as usual. Several of those commenting clearly didn't even see the news story. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:21, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. It looks as if The Rambling Man is a genuine content contributor who is here to build an encyclopedia (see his Boat Race article), not one of those users who spends his time creating drama on talk pages, ARBCOM and ANI. 86.158.182.11 (talk) 21:27, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Not relevant to the nomination, but thanks for your insight. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:30, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support based on number of sources and the angle that this is a veteran with PSD. Not exactly an everyday occurrence, and number of fatalities is rather high. If we have a slow news period this could be posted. If better stories come along, we could give priority to something else. Jehochman Talk 21:33, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Article doesn't even mention the veteran /PTSD status. Needs further expansion. Seattle (talk) 21:40, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Death toll is an indicator of significance, but is not the b-all and end-all. We should be asking questions about the level of coverage a given incident has received, especially internationally, and the impact it's likely to have rather than just about how many people died. On this one, I'm inclined to oppose because, in a country where any nutter can walk into a shop and walk out with a gun and a culture that glorifies the ownership and use of objects that are useless for anything other than killing people, it is (contrary to popular opinion) hardly surprising that these nutters go on killing sprees. There have been dozens of school shootings and hundreds of shooting sprees since Columbine (the most notorious, at least of recent times) and the impact of all of them has, heartbreakingly, been next to nothing. There's no reason to suspect this one will be any different. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:42, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree, which is why I said, in the original nomination, we need a bit of a wait to see how it pans out. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:55, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    If the end result of this latest tragedy is that there's some sort of national outcry that results in a change to the gun culture, that would be worthy of posting, but that would likely take longer than is typically allowed for ITN nominations and would probably be better off as a separate nomination, which I'd likely support, while eating my hat. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:03, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • A duplicate but more detailed article, "Montgomery County shootings", was created. --George Ho (talk) 22:03, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose appalling but no wider ramifications that would make this especially memorable except to those involved on an encyclopedic time scale. μηδείς (talk) 22:06, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, assuming this is a genuine nomination. There are no indications whatever that this event will have any lasting significance.-RHM22 (talk) 22:13, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Medeis and HJ Mitchell. There is no indication that this will have any lasting impact, unlike the Sydney hostage situation. Thryduulf (talk) 22:47, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This seems a significant story for a fairly large group of people (ie most of Pennsylvania - there's a nutter with a gun on the loose). The persistent references to the Sydney item in the nomination might have been misguided, but I'd encourage people to AGF here and not dismiss this as a tit-for-tat nomination. GoldenRing (talk) 23:04, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Shootings are a near-weekly routine in the USA.--WaltCip (talk) 23:09, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support per Jehochman. This is getting a great deal of coverage, likely due to the fact the suspect is on the loose. 331dot (talk) 23:44, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose toll might be significant, but this is a PTSD guy killing his own relatives. Not a real serial killer or terrorist. This isn't that unusual in a country where there is about a gun per capita, nor does it seem to have an actual wider impact. Also, it was nominated by TRM. Nergaal (talk) 23:50, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    Does it matter who nominated this? Mellowed Fillmore (talk) 04:18, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Various comments. First, the article says the dead are family members, so it looks like domestic violence, and although I still oppose, strongly at this point, we shouldn't be making some sort of synthesis with PTSD. Second, Pennsylvania is quite a large place. Montgomery county is the suburbs of Philadelphia, so something like "in Eastern Pennsylvania" or "in the Philadelphia suburbs" would make more sense. But again, this seems to be a family tragedy, not an outbreak of some larger event. μηδείς (talk) 23:55, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Large", like each of two Koreas, Cuba, Honduras, Guatemala, and some African countries? --George Ho (talk) 00:30, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I am not exactly quite sure what your point is, although the fact you mention other countries makes me think it's some sort of nationalist complaint. If something happened in South Korea we would specify the town or district. We wouldn't just say six people were shot in Cuba. But saying "Montgomery County, Pennsylvania" is a bit much, so I have offered alternatives. μηδείς (talk) 01:12, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


[Posted] Sydney Hostage Situation

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Article: 2014 Sydney hostage crisis (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Gunman takes hostages in a Sydney's Central Business District cafe. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A gunman takes hostages at a cafe in Sydney, Australia.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: This is very breaking right now. And i can not find an article at the moment, but given that its Sydney where these things are awfully rare and multiple hostages with like 100 officers on scene it might be worth discussing and getting ready for. Obviously wait for details ---- Ashish-g55 00:40, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Wait. It's claimed to be tied to ISIS, but so far it seems only to be a hostage situation, and how tied it is, we don't know yet. --MASEM (t) 00:49, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Whether it's ISIS or not, this is front page news and important enough for ITN. Don't say it's ISIS right now, just as the blurb is currently worded. If they claim to be ISIS, we can update it. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:02, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Strongly disagree just being covered worldwide makes it ITN. It could be a desperate grasp for attention by acting they are ISIS. We should wait until we have a better idea of what the situation really is. --MASEM (t) 01:11, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - important enough for ITN. Covered by all media worldwide.--BabbaQ (talk) 01:05, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose until we have something more to say than the breaking news. It's fine for us to leave this to the primary sources until we have something encyclopedic to say. μηδείς (talk) 01:10, 15 December 2014 (UTC) [Moot, and well done, all around.][reply]
  • Support covered all over the world. --Jonny Nixon - (Talk) 01:12, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – In my opinion, this is exactly the type of thing we should not post. It simply doesn't have encyclopaedic relevance in a wider context. WP:NOTNEWS springs to mind. I believe the purpose of ITN is to promote articles on news that has encyclopaedic relevance. A simple hostage-taking event does not fall into that category. Hostages are taken daily all over the world. This event is not particularly different, other than that it will get more media coverage because of where it took place. However, that doesn't mean it has actual relevance in the large scheme of things, or in a historical context. RGloucester — ☎ 01:18, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Exactly. If this does turn out to be an ISIS cell of Australian citizens suddenly acting into taking hostages, yeah, that would be ITN. But if this is just a random hostage situation where the name ISIS has been thrown around, it isn't much of anything. Waiting for better clarity is important here. --MASEM (t) 01:23, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • That's why we are waiting for details but "where" it took place is very important and could alone be the reason for posting. -- Ashish-g55 01:28, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • If it was something like a major bank or finanical center where they would have access to key resources, then perhaps, but this is a cafe in the financial distract of Syndey (not to trivialize the situation to any degree, only for purposes of ITN). --MASEM (t) 01:31, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
        • I meant Sydney vs. lets say somewhere in Pakistan. The place where something happens does matter and gives things a lot of weight. Ofcourse this all depends on what actually ends up happening here. Right now its a man holding people hostage and hopefully it just ends here -- Ashish-g55 01:34, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until we get the whole picture of what is going on(which might take some time). It may merit posting, but it is too early to know. Though the phrase is sometimes used in a cavalier manner, this is indeed a case of 'we are not a news ticker'. We need at least a clear picture of what is going on. 331dot (talk) 01:38, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Status: the consensus at present is to hold until more details emerge. Looking at the target article, it is very, very short. When more details emerge it will be possible to expand the article, and to properly gauge the level of coverage. Jehochman Talk 01:54, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The question is not one of "level of coverage", but of relevance. RGloucester — ☎ 02:12, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes and no. WP:ITN states its purpose quite clearly up-front, and part of that purpose is To help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news. Now, to my mind, that's all too often used to justify posting fairly trivial items because Hey, man, it's, like, on the front page of everything everywhere, but nonetheless, that's what it says. GoldenRing (talk) 02:54, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The issue at this point is that live TV coverage or banner news on the internet is ahead of us, even if that's no-where at this point. Once some verifiable news comes in, given the weight, we can post it. Until then we'd actually be doing a disservice to readers to lead them to a stub. There's no reason not to prepare an article with things like time and location awaiting some better resolution. μηδείς (talk) 03:01, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait According to the NSW Police Commissioner, it's not even clear yet whether this is terrorist-related. The fact that it is happening in a Western city should not be a reason to post it. We should be mindful of systemic bias. Neljack (talk) 03:40, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Several hours have passed since the above comments and this is still ongoing. Even if there is limited information that is certain, there is plenty of verifiable notable speculation and plenty of verifiable reaction from political and religious leaders, etc. and undoubtedly there is more to come. Sieges lasting 11 hours don't just fizzle without trace. The article looks in good shape (just one citation needed, that I'm about to try and rectify), so this should be posted soon. Thryduulf (talk) 09:35, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This should have gone up as a headline hours ago. I understand it's early and it's ongoing, but it's the number one news story in the world right now. Front page headline on major international newspapers like Telegraph, The Guardian, LA Times, NY Times, exploding all over social media, trending worldwide on Twitter. Whether or not there is any terrorist link, the coverage has exploded beyond what WP:NOTNEWS outlines. Hostage situations, whether terrorist related or not, do not happen like this often. With respect, somebody should've gotten their shit together on this hours ago. This is major news. CR4ZE (t • c) 09:57, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • But this is more than a news story. This is an unusually long, still-ongoing hostage crisis in an already volatile climate. There was a foiled IS-related terrorist plot here in Sydney only three months ago. And there's the cultural implications—we're already seeing an anti-Islamophobia campaign with #illridewithyou, plus the Sydney Telegraph "Death Cult" headline. As stated above, WP:ITN "serves to direct readers to articles that have been substantially updated to reflect recent or current events of wide interest". It's important to accept Wikipedia as a platform that people use to find information on ongoing or recent major events. Citing policies at each other in the wake of a situation that clearly has international interest is pointless. CR4ZE (t • c) 10:17, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I still oppose this, because I still don't see what encyclopedic relevance this has. But if it's directly tied to what's going on in Ghent, then I would support. It would need a different blurb, though, and if that's the case, then this should be closed and it should be re-nominated.128.214.53.18 (talk) 10:27, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't need to be closed and renominated, an alternative blurb can be proposed. 331dot (talk) 10:33, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I can do it. I don't normally hang around ITN though—do I just create a new template below here, or what? CR4ZE (t • c) 11:11, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You just need to fill in the "altblurb" parameter in the template at the top of this section, and note in a comment at the bottom that you've added an altblurb so that people spot it. If you start a new nomination it will just get speedily closed as a duplicate. Thryduulf (talk) 11:23, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I meant creating a new template below here, not initiating a new nomination. CR4ZE (t • c) 11:44, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Added an alternate blurb. It's quite short and to the point as the crisis is still ongoing and it's hard to find sources indicating number of hostages, motive of perpetrator etc. CR4ZE (t • c) 11:44, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting I've re-reviewed the situation, and see that most of the opposes and waits up above are based on the article not being sufficiently developed, or there not being enough details known to say anything encyclopedic. I've just look at 2014 Sydney hostage crisis and it is in quite good condition for such a recent event. If a reader were looking for information about this incident, the article compiles all the facts that have been published by reliable sources, and is worthy of the home page. The opposes based on the personal opinion that crackpots with guns don't deserve our attention aren't convincing when the story, for whatever reason, is making headlines around the world. Although the nomination lacks links, it is easy to verify that the story is "in the news", by checking major news sites in different countries (NYT, BBC, ABC (Australia), Xinhua, Al Jazeera). Jehochman Talk 14:16, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Post-posting comment: The wait comments were about not being a news ticker - just because the story is published far and wide across major papers does not make it a ITN story. We've already come to regard most gun-shooting events in public places in the US as non-ITN worthy, for example; this appears to be falling into the same logic in that all signs point to this being the effort of a single person with no ties to ISIS or the like, just a disgruntled person. WP, and particularly at ITN, need to avoid being too focused on events of the now and instead focus on the events with more long-term, larger-scope impact, and if this is just a single person trying to get attention, that's not going to have that type of impact we would really should be giving to ITN. If we are just going to report what is being reporting in the majority of news sources, we might as well just be a news ticker. --MASEM (t) 15:24, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • I think you are intermingling the policy argument about what we should be posting with the discussion of this particular item. It's generally accepted that we post items that are widely in the news, which this one clearly is, per the comments. If a handful of editors disagree with the policy/guidelines, they can't really generate a new consensus within the confines of this discussion. I recommend taking up that question at Wikipedia talk: In the news and start an RFC if you want to get enough comments to possibly generate a new consensus. Keep in mind that this situation is very similar to 2014 shootings at Parliament Hill, Ottawa which attracted >100,000 reader views, a good strong number for an ITN item. Jehochman Talk 16:28, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
        • The Parliament Hill shooting (Which I actually did nominate for ITN/C) was a case where one person was already killed and the major gov't building was the scene of a second set of shootings - whether it was international terrorist or a crackpot with the gun, that was a direct threat to leaders of a world gov't. Here, we had a hostage situation in a public cafe. We've had gun shooting incidents in the US that have been rejected but with just as much coverage simply because it was nothing major in the larger picture of world events, and this story, the more we learn about the hostage taker, seems to be someone simply disgruntled and upset and taking actions to try to get attention. I know the story is still developing but this seems to have all the marks of a story that will be soon forgotten by the world at large within a few weeks if this was just a disgruntled lone wolf, which is a means of which we have evaluated stories for ITN in the past, the permanency of the event. --MASEM (t) 16:37, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment: — Premature, IMO. Still developing. Besides, according to BBC, it's said to be the work of a lone gunman. Sca (talk) 14:58, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    Anders Behring Breivik anyone? The Rambling Man (talk) 15:34, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    If this actually resulted in numerous deaths, that might make it a story, but as I'm typing this, it looks like the police have rushed the cafe, freed the rest of the hostages, and finishing defusing the situation with no apparent casualties. --MASEM (t) 15:38, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    I hope so. Jehochman Talk 15:45, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yup, it's over. Sca (talk) 16:00, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's over, but there's reportedly two dead, but no word if those are hostages, the hostage taker, or police. Would wait to update to get that information. --MASEM (t) 16:05, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support keeping posted. Despite the low body count, this story has already developed into a major terrorism event which has been greatly traumatizing for Australia and will certainly have significant political and social consequences both in Australia and in other western industrial countries. Nsk92 (talk) 16:32, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support keeping posted - major terrorism event even though low death count. political consequences.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:41, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support keeping posted, and as soon as we have 100% confirmation of the gunman's death, the blurb should be revised. Masem, I have to take your comments quite dubiously; I don't see how you, or any of us, are in the position to judge the lasting impact of the news story. If we were able to do that, I'm sure that 90% of blurbs wouldn't make it through. For example, we have two blurbs up right now on general election results in Japan and Mauritius, and I doubt western outlets will be writing about it in a week—that doesn't mean they shouldn't have been posted, but I'm sure you can agree that a hostage crisis in a western country amid political tension is more likely to have a lasting impact anyway. CR4ZE (t • c) 17:13, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Elections will affect gov't policies for years to come from said countries even if the details of the election are trivial, hence why they are covered. This may or may not - now that it's clear it was a lone agent with some history of legal problems - have long-lasting events. Not that this isn't an appropriate WP article, but we have to be careful of just using predominance in news sources to determine ITN posting. --MASEM (t) 17:24, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting Support. Article is in good shape, item is clearly prominent in news sources. Those are usually the two criteria.--Jayron32 17:26, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting oppose (seems ineffective for now). This topic is not very significant to the whole world except Australia. Somehow, I don't see how it affects people in the Middle East unless it discourages them to go to Australia. Even so, I still don't see how this affects the country's neighbours, like Southeast Asian ones and the Oceania. --George Ho (talk) 18:18, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support. Obviously. This is the news story at the moment; it's been getting wall-to-wall coverage across the world and this sort of thing is probably even rarer in Oz than it is in Canada. The article is in decent shape, and this is exactly the sort of thing ITN was designed for. If we dont' post things like this, we'd only ever post elections in who-knows-where that passed completely unnoticed by the mainstream media. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:27, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's just an Aussie influence mainly done by Rupert Murdoch. --George Ho (talk) 18:49, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support, major event known around the world. --AmaryllisGardener talk 19:01, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I would have said wait earlier but new sources have emerged recently. In the last few hours several sources have confirmed enough information to allow us significant coverage. At the talk page of the article for the gunman there is a pending edit request with multiple sources confirming the death of the gunman. Chillum 19:06, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting oppose. Wikipedia offering further publicity to the sensationalism sought by a criminal nutter. Nothing educational. Pathetic ITN reaction. --ELEKHHT 20:47, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, I'd rather that we didn't encourage psychopathic people who use violence as a means to get attention, but that cow's out of the barn already. For good or for ill, our mission is to list articles "In the news" so people can learn about current events. Jehochman Talk 20:59, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment — Suggest blurb be made more specific by saying, "A gunman and two hostages are killed when a siege is forcibly ended at a Sydney, Australia, cafe." Sca (talk) 21:04, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Could the current blurb be reworded? It suggests either that the siege by law enforcement is the news event, and not the hostage crisis itself, or that the hostage crisis was the siege being referenced. If the latter is the actual intent, then it seems that it's hardly accurate to call it a 'siege.'-RHM22 (talk) 22:15, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • The blurb can be reworded, but it is extremely unlikely to be without a suggestion of what to reword it to (see also WP:ERRORS). In this case the news event was the hostage taking and the siege together. Thryduulf (talk) 22:52, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • We have to be careful with the wording because we don't want to imply that police shot the hostages. It's not clear exactly who shot whom. I think something like this might work: "Police storm a cafe in Sydney, ending a hostage siege, and three people are dead including two hostages and the gunman." Jehochman Talk 22:58, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • (ec)I'm always cautious about articles using non-American English in case there's some popular usage of which I'm not aware. It seems as though the article also uses the word 'siege' to refer to the hostage-taking, so maybe the blurb is indeed referring to that. I would probably word it as such: A gunman and two others are killed following a hostage crisis in Sydney. I changed 'hostages' to 'others' in my suggested blurb to avoid redundancy, but that could prove controversial. However, if 'siege' is indeed the preferred wording, then the blurb is fine as it is.-RHM22 (talk) 23:02, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can we add "Man Haron Monis" in the blurb then? --George Ho (talk) 00:33, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      Done Jehochman Talk 05:05, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    And bold the name then? --George Ho (talk) 05:37, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull A supporting opinion described this as a "major terrorism event". Two hostages were killed, one victim via apparent heart attack... that qualifies as a "major terrorism event"? Meanwhile, we refused to post anything about when 33 Egyptian soldiers were killed in a Jihadist ambush in October. Jihadists are committing acts of terrorism in many localities throughout the world, but ITN seems to have a bias towards those incidents that occur in the West, no matter how small in a grand scheme of things that they may be (see: 2014 shootings at Parliament Hill, Ottawa for a similar incident to this one, which was also hurriedly posted on ITN) --Tocino 08:00, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    I think you have a valid point. But this event is a very unusual one for Australia itself. And is Australia really "in the West"? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:38, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    ITN's bias is towards events that are uncommon in the place they happen, and for Australia this was a major event (I'm not sure I'd personally use the "terrorism" label, but reliable sources do so that's irrelevant). For example, if the Philadelphia shootings nominated above had happened in the UK there would have been a greater chance of it being posted as significant firearms incidents are about 1 per decade on average there versus about 1 per week in the USA. There is a bias towards stories from western nations, but a not insignificant component of this is the bias towards stories from western nations in English-language news sources. Thryduulf (talk) 11:02, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 14

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December 14, 2014 (2014-12-14) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

Syrian soldiers captured by rebels in Wadi Deif

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Article: Second Siege of Wadi Deif (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Second Siege of Wadi Deif ends with 80 rebels and 100 Syrian soldiers dead and more than 200 Syrian soldiers captured. (Post)
News source(s): Syria Human Rights
Credits:

Nominator's comments: The slaughter of Pakistani children was terrible. So is Syrian Civil War, including this event. Perhaps this should intrigue people at the Main Page. --George Ho (talk) 19:27, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Japanese general election

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Article: Japanese general election, 2014 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Japan, the Liberal Democratic Party and Komeito coalition secures a supermajority following a snap general election. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, The Guardian, Asahi Shimbun, ABC (au), NBC
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Needs official confirmation but exit polls show no change in power. Stronger majority could help Abe push his economic reforms past the upper house. --Fuebaey (talk) 19:21, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The "snap" part is important, given the politicking surrounding the calling of the election. RGloucester — ☎ 21:57, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that "snap" is an essential part of the story. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 22:55, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Rolene Strauss wins Miss World

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No consensus to post. SpencerT♦C 02:58, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Rolene Strauss (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Rolene Strauss of South Africa wins Miss World 2014 in London. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Rolene Strauss of South Africa is crowned Miss World 2014 during the final in London.
News source(s): [31], [32]
Credits:

Article updated
 --BabbaQ (talk) 19:00, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
[33], [34]. It is the biggest pageant in all aspects. --BabbaQ (talk) 19:49, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Ready] Haiti PM Laurent Lamothe resigns

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Article: Laurent Lamothe (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Haiti's prime minister Laurent Lamothe (pictured) and other ministers resign in the wake of violent anti-government clashes. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Miami Herald]
Credits:

Article updated

 --MASEM (t) 08:16, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I updated the article with information from the linked BBC story. Whether or not it's suitable for ITN I will leave to the more experienced editors to decide.-RHM22 (talk) 16:42, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@RHM22: How about now? --George Ho (talk) 11:35, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Neljack, 331dot, Bzweebl: That's as far as the update goes. I have not found any other events that led to protests and resignation. --George Ho (talk) 18:20, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 13

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December 13, 2014 (2014-12-13) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology

Sport

December 12

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December 12, 2014 (2014-12-12) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime
  • An unknown person shoots four people outside of Rosemary Anderson High School, an alternative high school in Portland, Oregon. Police later question a 22-year-old man. (CNN) (MSN)[permanent dead link], (AP)
  • Prosecutors at Sary-Arqa District Court in Astana charge 30-year-old Yevgeny Vdovenko, a Kazakh citizen, of intentional and illegal participation in a military conflict abroad because he had fought alongside pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine. (Radio Free Europe)
  • A Palestinian man throws a chemical substance believed to be acid at an Israeli family that stopped to pick up a hitchhiker. No terrorist groups claim credit for the attack. (Reuters)

Science and technology

Oil price

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Article: Price of oil (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The prices of oil hits record lows. (Post)
Article updated

Nominator's comments: This has been all over the news this week. The prices have not been this low since the recession, and this time the reason is primarily the oversupply not the underdemand. Peak oil anybody? If this doesn't get posted, then when should it be posted? When the Brent goes below $50? 23:53, 19 December 2014 (UTC) Nergaal (talk) 23:53, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I moved this nomination to December 12, according to what the article says. --George Ho (talk) 23:57, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose on the basis that the article is entirely insufficient. It only refers to "North American" practice, and doesn't seem to be about the "price of oil", so much as the "WTI Cushing Crude Oil Spot Price", whatever that is. Honestly, it seems like a mish-mash of random information about oil. If a new article was created for this specific oil glut, I might be able to support such a blurb. I cannot support showing this article on the main page, though. RGloucester — ☎ 00:00, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

2014 Indonesia landslides

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Article: 2014 Indonesia landslides (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the Banjarnegara Regency of Indonesia, a landslide kills at least 32 people. (Post)
News source(s): Sydney Morning-Herald, BBC News, USA Today, Al Jazeera, ABC News
Credits:

 --Everymorning talk 02:44, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A note on process: Each item is assessed independently. If one is arguably decided wrong, Wikipedia shouldn't decide others incorrectly just to be consistent. Jehochman Talk 18:09, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If that is a note on process, why is it indented as if countering something I didn't say? You may note I've had the courtesy to await the full facts before voting. μηδείς (talk) 18:44, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I should correct my statement: the Typhoon may yet get posted if the article is updated, which seemed not to have been completed last time I looked. Jehochman Talk 01:55, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Busaba Suwadi's relinquishment

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Article: Busaba Suwadi (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The former consort to the Crown Prince of Thailand Busaba Suwadi (pictured) relinquishes her royal title of Princess Srirasm. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, New York Times, etc.
Credits:

Article updated

 --Brandmeistertalk 10:50, 13 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@BabbaQ: On what do you base that opinion? Saying something is "notable enough" is only helpful if you state why. As stated on this page, simple support or oppose votes are not helpful. 331dot (talk) 19:48, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support. I'm not seeing a great deal of news coverage of this, but I think we would post an item if Kate was leaving Prince William and giving up her titles. This seems similar to me. 331dot (talk) 19:48, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support. Even if the ramifications are not massive for the entire world, this is a big enough regional story. Formerip (talk) 23:34, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - We can't post this but can post some terrorist/hostage situation in Australia? This is as significant as it goes. Give ourselves to royalty, baby! --George Ho (talk) 18:52, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting The supports have more support, and we have room in the template for this story. Generally we want to post a new item every day and items should be retired after a week or so. We've got items that are currently older than that. This is something different and there's an argument in favor of variety. Jehochman Talk 14:00, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 11

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December 11, 2014 (2014-12-11) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

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Science and technology

[Closed] Microsoft and Bitcoin

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Although this nomination has not been open for very long, it's clear that this won't be posted. SpencerT♦C 03:48, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: No article specified
Blurb: ​ 2nd largest corporation in the world, Microsoft has started to accept Bitcoin. (Post)
News source(s): CoinDesk RedOrbit
Credits:
Nominator's comments: 2nd largest corporation in the world enough said --66.36.138.57 (talk) 22:19, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Microsoft hasn't acquired Bitcoin or anything. They've just started accepting it in payment. A complete non-story. ETA: Do you have any coverage of this whatever from news sources not specialising in Bitcoin news? AlexTiefling (talk) 22:40, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support If I could buy gas with acorns I'd want to know. Buying Microsoft products with Bitcoin is far more interesting than gas for oak nuts. This involves two industry-toppers and hence, if updated, meets ITN hands down. μηδείς (talk) 22:44, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - If Microsoft accepted acorns, I'd want to see that at ITN. This source (hidden away in BBC NEWS Technology) says: "Microsoft is the latest in a series of big firms to back bitcoins... and now Paypal, Dell, Expedia, Newegg and many other firms accept payments made with them." This Microsoft story might be a far more worthy item. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:02, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, interesting, but seriously, ITN-worthy? No. Not ITN worthy unless Microsoft acquires Bitcoin, etc. --AmaryllisGardener talk 23:16, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. So? In contrast to Martin, I would also oppose a Microsoft accepts acorns story. Lots of things are potentially fungible, some of them make decent currencies, and some of those will be used by large corporations in pursuit of commerce. More and more corporations have started using Bitcoin, which is good for Bitcoin enthusiasts I guess, but is still a very niche issue. Acceptance by Microsoft strikes me as just another step in that progression and not otherwise worthy of note. I can't imagine we would decide to post a "Microsoft starts accepting the Turkish Lira" story, or any other small currency, even though the utility of small national currencies is probably more important to many people than Bitcoin. Dragons flight (talk) 23:17, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The only way I'd support this is if there was consensus to follow up with a blurb about Wikipedia deciding to accept stories about who's accepting bitcoin as newsworthy. Formerip (talk) 01:13, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Another large corporation decides to accept Bitcoin. This isn't remotely ITN-worthy. Challenger l (talk) 01:58, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 10

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December 10, 2014 (2014-12-10) (Wednesday)
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Politics and elections

[Closed] Monaco twins

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No consensus to post. SpencerT♦C 03:49, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: Jacques, Hereditary Prince of Monaco (talk · history · tag) and Princess Gabriella, Countess of Carlades (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Charlene, Princess of Monaco, gives birth to twins, the first and second in the line of succession to the Monegasque throne. (Post)
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:
Nominator's comments: I think this is pretty notable royal news. Albert finally has a legitimate heir to the throne and the twins were the first to have been born to Monaco's royal family. --JuneGloom07 Talk 21:40, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] General Election in Mauritius

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Article: Mauritian general election, 2014 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Alliance Lepep coalition, led by Sir Anerood Jugnauth, won the general election in Mauritius. (Post)
News source(s): Bloomberg, Reuters India, Daily Mail, AllAfrica.com, L'express.mu, Le Mauricien, Le Défi Media, Le Matinal
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 --174.95.128.224 (talk) 02:45, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Changed to conditional support because of article quality concerns. -Zanhe (talk) 01:22, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 9

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December 9, 2014 (2014-12-09) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Law and crime

International relations

Politics and elections

Science

2014 oil spill on Sundarbans

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Article: 2014 oil spill on Sundarbans (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  An oil-tanker carrying 350,000 litres of furnace oil was sunk in the Shela river of Sundarbans, a UNESCO World Heritage Site and spread over 10,000 square kilometers area. (Post)
News source(s): (The Hindu), (Aljazeera), (BBC), (The Economic Times), (Hindustan Times), (Prothom Alo), (Times of India), (Google News search)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Very serious environmental issue. Sundarbans is the world's largest mangrove forest and the oil tanker is threatening the wildlife of the forest. -- Rahat (Talk * Contributions) 14:30, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Unfortunately stale. This happened on the 9th only one of the news links above is from more recently than 2-3 days ago, and that seems to be more of a followup article rather than a news article. If there was more to the article than there currently is (one paragraph), I would have likely supported at the time, but this far after the event we really need to offer some in-depth encyclopaedic treatment to justify a slot on the homepage. Sorry. Thryduulf (talk) 15:03, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Senate Intelligence Committee report on CIA torture

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Article: Senate Intelligence Committee report on CIA torture (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A report harshly criticizing the use of torture by the Central Intelligence Agency of the United States is released by the Senate Intelligence Committee. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A report harshly criticizing the interrogation techniques used by the Central Intelligence Agency of the United States is released by the Senate Intelligence Committee.
News source(s): BBC Guardian NYT VOX Bloomberg NBC Fox Le Monde SMH
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Lead story on BBC, the New York Times and CNN. An obviously controversial issue is whether we should say "torture" or "interrogation" in the blurb. For this reason, I have proposed two blurbs. --Everymorning talk 23:58, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support, although it looks to me like the article is not quite there (e.g. use of lists, no infobox). Don't really need to say "of the United States", and surely it's "interrogation techniques" rather than "tactics". Formerip (talk) 00:13, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per FormerIP (and I agree with their suggestions too). Technically though the report hasn't been released, only the executive summary to it has. I don't think this materially affects the story or the blurb though. Thryduulf (talk) 00:26, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The article title and the report itself both use the term "torture", so I think we should go with that. Neljack (talk) 00:39, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Leaning Oppose / Wait. This is a report written by Democrats (and criticized by most Republicans) from within one committee in the US Senate describing and criticizing interrogation practices (i.e. torture) that were used under former President Bush and that have already been forbidden by current President Obama. Unless the report leads to protests in the street or new violence (both of which some people predict are possible), then I'm not sure how significant this really is. Sensationalist, yes, but is knowing exactly how we tortured people really a major story? It is certainly no surprise that the current Democrats oppose torture. If there are broader consequences / events arising from the publication of this report then I would support it, but I'm rather dubious about posting the report by itself. Dragons flight (talk) 00:43, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    To be exact on the partisanship authorship angle, the final report was approved by 7 Democrats, 1 Independent who caucuses with Democrats (Angus King), and 1 moderate Republican (Susan Collins). It was opposed by the remaining six members of the committee, all Republicans. The dissenting Republicans on the committee concurrently released a separate 167 page document criticizing the majority's process and conclusions. Most of the Republicans in Congress who have spoken after the release have been highly critical of it as well (excluding John McCain who is notable as a Republican supporter). In part, the report is being released now because once the newly elected Republicans take control of the Senate in January, they would almost certainly have killed it. Dragons flight (talk) 01:32, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    It is a significant news story in the basic sense that the news is definitely covering it, but it is still true that only a minority of news stories end up on ITN. Personally, I tend to look for a degree of encyclopedic relevance and long-term significance. This particular news story has a strongly partisan and sensationalist undercurrent to it that tends to undermine its significance in my opinion, especially in the absence of any apparent consequences to the report itself (e.g. new legislation, protests, prosecutions, etc.). Dragons flight (talk) 01:32, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Dragons flight. The partisanship here is apparent, similar to the Benghazi hearings.--WaltCip (talk) 01:48, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, any substantive content within the report has been known about for years, it carries no legal weight, and was released now only because the Republicans wouldn't release it next year when they are the Senate majority. Abductive (reasoning) 02:01, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Abductive, DF, and others. Not "new"s, no criminal indictment, a political report against a prior opposition party administration, no deaths, (how many people died attempting to save Luke Somers, and was that posted?) How many failed rescue missions against ISIS have we posted from this year? And the fact that Klaid Shiekh Muhammad, who personally beheaded Daniel Pearl, was rectally hydrated should be posted as news? No. μηδείς (talk) 02:20, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - A big story with international impact. Report has been in preparation for five years. I don't buy the "partisan" angle of the opposers. Obama himself was reported as opposing the release of the summary. Jusdafax 04:30, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is not a definitive report issued by the government (i.e the 9/11 Commission or the Warren Commission), its a dossier released by an opposition party which just one month ago lost massively in nationwide elections. Furthermore, it won't have any lasting effect or consequences (Obama has said it's time to move on). Posting this would set a bad precedent, and just because its top of the news today doesn't necessarily mean it should be posted (we didn't post anything about Luke Somers, for example) --Tocino 08:47, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until/if there is some sort of effect of releasing this report(as Dragons flight suggests might happen). I disagree with the partisan reasons for not posting(it is still the official committee report even if not supported by most GOPers) but I do agree that little new information is being shed here and that little will change from the report itself. 331dot (talk) 09:23, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I don't get why some say this is not news. This is an extremely important report, and is the top headline all over the world. -Zanhe (talk) 19:52, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support original blurb, oppose alternative blurb: this is an incredibly large international story, even though it does confirm what we all knew years ago: that an intelligence community in a world superpower routinely tortured military prisoners. Additionally, some of those opposing, I feel, are going further than opposing it on criteria grounds and are actively making excuses for torture, to which I whole-heartedly say: fuck you. Sceptre (talk) 20:30, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Sceptre. Fuck any claims of partisanship. American forces used torture extensively and systematically, with official approval, and that fact is everywhere in the international news today. Fight your party squabbles some other time. AlexTiefling (talk) 20:52, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support What this says about the CIA, let alone the United States of America, should be enough on its own to get it to the front page. This is clearly significant, clearly historical, clearly notable, clearly front page news. doktorb wordsdeeds 21:08, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wow The report is being released by a committee of one house, a committee which is in the hands of the opposition to the war, but which won't be as soon as that house returns after New Year's. There is no input from the currently minority party or soon to be majority party, or the other house. It's a political report meant solely to embarrass past and future bugaboos, and while it implies criminal activity, it neither proves nor even charges any criminal activity. And it's gotten so desperate that we have two users, one an admin (I am not sure what Alex Tiefling is) screaing obscenities? Where are the summary blocks? I'd expect to have been blocked if I'd even come close to this language. Righting great wrongs is not our job, and certainly doesn't excuse the above comments, which should be collapsed, if not rev deleted, with blocks for the appropriate parties. μηδείς (talk) 21:14, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not going to comment on whether this report should or should not be printed in ITN, but I've become greatly concerned by people pushing their own points of view and original research in the above comments. This also applies to you, Medeis. All parties above, please stop the editorialising. RGloucester — ☎ 21:43, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure I have to take advice on editorialising from the person who described the death of Eric Garner as a 'little parochial strangling' and tried to get an entire nomination written off as 'simply wrong'.
Medeis, I'm not an admin, I'm an ordinary user like you. I think this is the second time I've had to explain that to you. Do I need to remind you that Wikipedia is not censored, too? And I'd love to know why you think I'm screaming obscenities in a text-only medium. I cannot think what justification there would be for a summary block of me or Sceptre, but if you want to call for one, WP:ANI is over there. As I noted on a RefDesk thread recently, Medeis, I see you making provocative, content-free replies there and here almost every time I look. But (as other users are now discussing on the general RefDesk talk page) it seems futile to take you to ANI. If you want to take me on, go for it. But don't clutter this page up with empty threats. AlexTiefling (talk) 22:13, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I am an admin. I can state with reasonable confidence that any attempt to have sanctions applied would be very likely to WP:BOOMERANG. The story is what it is: the only question is whether it has sufficient international prominence. I live in the UK< it is massive here, so I think people who try to claim it's not significant are onto a loser. Remember, this is Wikipedia: verifiability not truth. The report reportedly characterises the CIA as using torture, and more importantly the reliable independent sources that cover the story almost all (with notable exceptions being Faux News and its ilk) call it torture. If someone's loyalty to their country precludes admitting that a government agency that has a long and inglorious reputation for believing the ends justify the means, well, bully for them, but I sincerely hope that Wikipedians will be above such jingoistic tomfoolery. Guy (Help!) 23:17, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Technically speaking, the report doesn't describe the interrogation techniques as "torture". It describes in detail many tactics that a reasonable observer would likely conclude are torture, but in the bulk of the report it avoids labeling them as such. (I wonder if avoiding that label was done for legal reasons?) That said, the committee chair Diane Feinstein and many other commentators on the report have described the tactics as "torture". Feinstein also described them that way in a foreword published with the report but signed only by herself. Dragons flight (talk) 23:49, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Point of order There's no need to recriminations against other editors. Let people say what they want, as long as they aren't insulting you. If you have insulted somebody above, please strike it. Keep in mind that this item will be decided based on whether it is widely reported in the news, article quality, yada yada other criteria, not whether you think the item is newsworthy. If its a bunch of partisan bluster, and news sources say so, then our article will say so also. What's lacking in the nomination are links to international news sources. If this is reported widely around the world, that's an object fact that can be determined. Either it's widely reported, or isn't. Jehochman Talk 22:58, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
While I broadly agree, and think each nomination should be discussed on its merits, I don't think we can pretend that each user's posts in one thread are wholly distinct from their posts in other threads. There are patterns, and some of the patterns are highly poisonous to this site. AlexTiefling (talk) 23:06, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a bunch of news sources, as requested. Mostly just scraped from the bolded article. GoldenRing (talk) 23:26, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support, first blurb not bowdlerised version (this is Wikipedia: the source says torture, so we say torture). A rare and truly remarkable piece of honesty in respect of a situation that has been spun so hard thus far that it's got its own quantum state. Guy (Help!) 23:01, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It is in the News but there is still no link to a Wiki article unlike in most other cases. Count Iblis (talk) 23:32, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting The support arguments, based on news appearance links now added above, demonstrate that this story is being reported widely and that reader will be interested in our article that can provide all the nuanced details, such as the fact that this was a report prepared by a Democratic-controlled committee about a Republican administration. What we think of the news (good, bad or ugly) is immaterial. Jehochman Talk 23:39, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The wording "brutal interrogations" [35] is attributed as a quote to Dianne Feinstein or the report itself by most sources (e.g. [36] [37]), and is simply a euphemism for torture. I think the wording should go back to "torture", which is supported by a large number of sources ) and is in the title of the article. If we need more neutral wording, then the altblurb of "interrogation techniques" could be considered. But "brutal" seems to be non-neutral in that it reflects the report more than it reflects the sources. D7QB (talk) 00:26, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure how neutral we need to be in describing practices that included pureeing a man's lunch ration and then forcing it up his arse. Let's call it torture. AlexTiefling (talk) 00:33, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I also support changing it to "torture"; everyone else is calling it that, after all. Sceptre (talk) 00:36, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I also support the wording change to "torture" so let's do it. Jusdafax 00:50, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I concur. I'm also OK with the posting, since the story is staying ITN. Abductive (reasoning) 01:01, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support Including use the word "torture". Let's call it for what it is, per what reliable sources are calling it. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 00:59, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I switched to "brutal interrogation" because that's what the BBC story said, the first news story linked above. I am more than happy to change that to something else if somebody proposes other word(s) and links to sources using those same words. Jehochman Talk 01:03, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)Proposed wording: "A report harshly criticizing the use of torture by the United States Central Intelligence Agency is released by the Senate Intelligence Committee." Refs: [38] [39] [40] [41] D7QB (talk) 03:18, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'm not necessarily opposed to posting this (even though we've known everything substantive for years), but the wording of 'torture' is obscene. There is absolutely no reason to use such biased language, except for the emotional pleas put forth by some of the editors above. Just because something seems bad to us, doesn't mean that it's not biased to say such. Even the phrase 'brutal interrogation' is more biased than I'd like, but at least that is used by Feinstein. Personally, I'd prefer the wording 'interrogation techniques,' and the reader can determine for himself whether or not it's brutal and/or torture. I must say, the appealing to emotion and inflammatory foul language being used here is troubling and may speak to the motivations of some individuals.-RHM22 (talk) 03:12, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is nothing biased about using a term that a vast number of sources use, is concise, and precisely describes the events. While the report itself does not call these practices torture, they fit the definition. Not all members of a government that participated in torture are going to call it torture; that's why we use what secondary sources say. D7QB (talk) 03:37, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • The fact that news outlets are saying that doesn't make it unbiased. The blurb says that the reports condemns torture, which is not only biased, but also inaccurate! As you say, nowhere does the report use that word, and its inclusion here is clearly editorialization. It is troubling indeed that such is being displayed on the main page when simple, unbiased alternatives exist, such as the alternate blurb above.-RHM22 (talk) 04:52, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The report itself is a primary source. We go by secondary sources, which are generally saying 'torture'. There's also a plain English question here: do you seriously expect me to believe that sodomising a man with the remains of his lunch in order to make him say certain things is not torture? AlexTiefling (talk) 10:11, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Next time Dick Cheney hosts a luncheon, I'm not going. Jehochman Talk 10:31, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it's not torture, but again, that's not for me to decide. The headline here is regarding the primary source and making an incorrect statement thereabout. The secondary sources are interpreting the report, just like we're doing on the main page now. No matter what the secondary sources say, it's not accurate according to the wording of the report, and it's also needlessly opinionated when there are other, very simple and completely uncontroversial alternatives. There is simply no need to use this wording when 'interrogation techniques' functions in the exact same way; the difference being that a blurb with that wording doesn't produce that coveted, tabloid-style 'shock' reaction.
Regarding Jehochman's posting above, I wouldn't be concerned if I were invited to Cheney's luncheon: with friends like that, who needs…-RHM22 (talk) 15:40, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
With friends like that, who needs enemas? Jehochman Talk 16:36, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure if you're referring to this story specifically, but it's been on the main page for two or three days now. If I remember correctly, it was on there the same day that the report was released. Very important news stories are sometimes fast-tracked even more quickly than that.-RHM22 (talk) 00:06, 13 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Senate staffer tries to scrub 'torture' reference. Count Iblis (talk) 22:10, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 8

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December 8, 2014 (2014-12-08) (Monday)
Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

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Politics and elections

December 7

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December 7, 2014 (2014-12-07) (Sunday)
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Politics and elections

Typhoon Hagupit

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Article: Typhoon Hagupit (2014) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 27 people are killed as Typhoon Hagupit impacts the Philippines. (Post)
News source(s): CNN, Reuters
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: This news is a little old, and the effects appear to be trivial compared to last year's typhoon, but recovery efforts are ongoing and the current impact is notable enough for ITN, especially considering how slow it has been lately. ----Bongwarrior (talk) 23:50, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Ralph H. Baer

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Article: Ralph H. Baer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [42] [43], [44], [45]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Known as "The father of video games", given a National medal for his work. RD only, as death by age (92) --MASEM (t) 21:15, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 6

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December 6, 2014 (2014-12-06) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

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Science and Technology

[Withdrawn] United States Senate election in Louisiana, 2014

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Withdrawn. --George Ho (talk) 18:27, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 
Article: United States Senate election in Louisiana, 2014 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Republican Party candidate Bill Cassidy (pictured) won the 2014 Louisiana runoff election, defeating the Democratic Party incumbent, Mary Landrieu, and raising number of Republican Senators to 54. ← (links to 114th United States Congress)
 The Republican Party candidate Bill Cassidy (pictured) won the 2014 Louisiana runoff election, defeating the Democratic Party incumbent, Mary Landrieu, and raising number of Republican Senators to 54. ← (links to United States Senate elections, 2014) (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Republican Party candidate Bill Cassidy (pictured) won the 2014 Louisiana runoff election, defeating his incumbent Democratic Party opponent, Mary Landrieu.
News source(s): Wall Street Journal
Credits:

Article updated
 --George Ho (talk) 04:23, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Bullshit. Nothing else works. Might as well try this. HiLo48 (talk) 11:05, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar- or at least an explanation rather than sarcastic condemnation. People don't always know what one wants them to know. 331dot (talk) 11:15, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Where does it say in ITNR that we post a result from a single state? And there's nothing in the blurb about this vote being an "unexpected minority take-over of a nation's upper house". HiLo48 (talk) 04:39, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't an "unexpected minority takeover"; the GOP had already taken over, this was icing on the cake. I don't see that criteria written down anywhere, either. 331dot (talk) 09:03, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


2014 hostage rescue operations in Yemen

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Article: 2014 hostage rescue operations in Yemen (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ US journalist Luke Somers and South African teacher Pierre Korkie held as hostages by Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula in Yemen died in a failed US Navy SEALS attempt to rescue them (Post)
News source(s): "US forces raid al-Qaida hideout in Yemen; hostages reported killed". Stars and Stripes. Retrieved 6 December 2014."How Navy SEALs Tried Rescuing al Qaeda Hostage Luke Somers". ABC news. Retrieved 6 December 2014.
Article updated

Nominator's comments: Notable, a high-prifile event in the War on Terror Olegwiki (talk) 22:59, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Now the article has become 2014 hostage rescue operations in Yemen. I changed links and name accordingly. --George Ho (talk) 05:03, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Why is this template incomplete? Who are the nominators and updaters? Is this updated? μηδείς (talk) 23:01, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 5

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December 5, 2014 (2014-12-05) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy
  • A judge in the Netherlands declares Dutch clothing company Mexx bankrupt. The bankruptcy ruling affects over 300 stores worldwide, including 95 locations in Canada. (CBC News)

Disasters and accidents
  • Italian rescue crews discover 17 bodies in the hull of a migrant ship off Libya. (FOX News)

International Relations

Law and Crime

Science and Technology

[Posted] RD: Queen Fabiola of Belgium

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Article: Queen Fabiola of Belgium (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): La Libre, ABC News, Daily Mail, Het Laatse Nieuws, Bangkok Post, Reuters, Le Soir, RTBF
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: One of the 8 ever Queen of the Belgians and held the position for over 30 years. Also notable in her own right for her charity work, especially working in the field of children's health. Since her retirement, she's also been subject to death threats (2009) and tax evasion scandals. Still very recent story. --—Brigade Piron (talk) 18:56, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Arrest of Zhou Yongkang

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Article: Zhou Yongkang (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former Chinese official Zhou Yongkang is arrested and expelled from the Communist Party of China. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Former Chinese domestic security chief Zhou Yongkang is arrested and expelled from the Communist Party of China.
News source(s): (BBC) (New York Times)
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: I nominated his 'investigation' announcement in July 29 and was told to wait until something more concrete happened. This is a huge story and currently on the front page of BBC and New York Times, as well as almost all Chinese-language news portals. Back in June we posted the expulsion from the party of military official Xu Caihou, who is of a lower rank than Zhou. Zhou's expulsion from the party, the most serious form of political condemnation in the world of Chinese politics, is the first of its kind since the Cultural Revolution. --Colipon+(Talk) 18:28, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

For those not familiar with Chinese politics, could you clarify what "first of its kind" is referring to? I'm guessing it's not simply the first expulsion since 1976 given that it would contradict the previous sentence. Fuebaey (talk) 23:41, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I should not take knowledge of these arcane subjects for granted. Zhou is the first member of the Politburo Standing Committee, China's top council of rulers, to have ever been charged with corruption; also the expulsion from the party is an extremely serious verdict in the world of elite Chinese politics - akin to the death sentence. It is first time that a PSC member has been expelled from the party since the Cultural Revolution. It is not a stretch to say this is the largest corruption scandal in the history of China under Communist rule. Colipon+(Talk) 03:42, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Jehochman: - thank you for posting. Could we use his photo? File:Zhou Yongkang.png starship.paint ~ regal 13:17, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Can you upload a copy locally, and then I will protect it and add it to the home page? Jehochman Talk 13:24, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Orion launch

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Articles: Orion (spacecraft) (talk · history · tag) and Exploration Flight Test 1 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Orion spacecraft completes a successful maiden flight from Cape Canaveral. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ NASA successfully conducts the maiden flight of its Orion spacecraft
News source(s): ABC, Daily Mail etc.
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: The article looks updated at first glance. According to it, the spacecraft will facilitate human exploration of the Moon, asteroids and Mars. --Brandmeistertalk 13:03, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Not to be too technical, but the rocket Orion is being launched on is not new, nor is this a manned orbital flight, so I don't think this is ITNR. I do support posting this test flight, though.331dot (talk) 13:25, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral I don't think this is terribly important news unless it blows up. Why we are still putting people on spacecraft? Robots can do more for less money. If anybody is listening, please take the few billion dollars to be wasted on these PR stunts and invest the money to in something that will benefit us more directly, like the Portal Bridge or I-84. (By "us" I actually mean "me", but let's not quibble.) Sorry for the editorializing... Jehochman Talk 14:03, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment — AP says "for the first time in 42 years" NASA launches a spacecraft built to carry humans beyond Earth orbit, i.e. to Mars. Perhaps this makes it significant — but maybe we should wait 'til it splashes down, only 4 1/2 hours after launch, to see if all goes according to plan? Sca (talk) 14:21, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe wait until some humans actually take a flight? There will be a bunch of tests before anybody gets on board, and I think there's a high probability the program will be cut before any human ever flies. Putting a human on board a space ship greatly reduces performance and utility. Jehochman Talk 14:57, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
AP: "NASA deliberately kept astronauts off this first Orion." Good to know; glad they weren't kept off inadvertently. Sca (talk) 16:31, 5 December 2014 (UTC)  [reply]
  Facepalm Jehochman Talk 16:33, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose While a launch and considered successful (it's made waterfall as I write this), being unmanned and only a test flight isn't really that significant; it's comparable to the routine shipment launches to the ISS, for example. --MASEM (t) 16:40, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's more significant as it's a vehicle designed for humans, that has gone farther from the surface of the earth than any vehicle designed for humans in over forty-two years; that time we called it Apollo 17. I understand that it's hard to put the distinction down in facts and figures, but manned spaceflight (and the lead-up to manned spaceflight) is generally considered more noteworthy than routine supplies deliveries. Evan (talk|contribs) 16:53, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm also fairly sure that we posted the first flight of every single one of the cargo craft that delivers supplies to the ISS (with the obvious exception of Progress which pre-dates Wikipedia) --W. D. Graham 19:55, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, per my comment above. Evan (talk|contribs) 16:53, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support — Tho I've never been a big fan of the $$$pace program, I reluctantly agree with Evan that this appears to be the beginning of a new phase, potentially at least. Sca (talk) 17:00, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - If I understand correctly, it's a typical spacecraft, with a bigger capsule and a higher orbit than most. It doesn't seem that significant. While it's possible it might lead to humans landing on Mars, that's still sci-fi at the moment. -- Ypnypn (talk) 17:45, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    The only comparable spacecraft is Apollo; no manned craft capable of operating beyond low Earth orbit has flown, manned or unmanned, in the last 40 years. While the Mars plans are somewhat vague there are concrete plans for beyond-Earth-orbit missions with this type of spacecraft in coming years. --W. D. Graham 19:55, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - As the first launch in NASA's plan of placing an asteroid in orbit around the moon and landing on Mars, this launch represents the start of a new era in space flight. Ryan Vesey 18:11, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Per Ryan and Sca and Evanh, this is indeed a new era. A story of worldwide interest. This program is intended to move humans out of close earth orbit and into the further reaches of space. Jusdafax 18:37, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support. I support mostly because news has been slow with the oldest ITN now 11 days old, and this has a fairly interesting article attached to it. In general though, if we were busier I would be against posting a rocket test launch as the first real mission of a new design would seem to be the more important milestone. Dragons flight (talk) 18:45, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support - first flight of a spacecraft designed to carry humans beyond Earth orbit for the first time since 1972. First manned flight is still years away so no harm in posting twice. I have removed the ITNR flag from this entry because it doesn't meet the ITNR requirements - though mostly because of an oversight on my part when I proposed the criteria - but this does not mean that it isn't significant. I do think the blurb should mention Exploration Flight Test 1 which is specifically about this mission, so I have proposed an alternative blurb. --W. D. Graham 19:55, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral I was going to support this, but this isn't really some notable achievement. It seems more of a NASA PR event. The mission itself is not more notable than a regular ISS personnel transfer, so it those get posted this should to. Otherwise, NASA just tested the capsule, not the REALLY important part, the rocket. Nergaal (talk) 20:31, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I thought maiden flights were itnr, and I think most readers would come here if they wanted encyclopedic coverage, not to a tabloid. μηδείς (talk) 20:51, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 4

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December 4, 2014 (2014-12-04) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

RD: Jeremy Thorpe

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Article: Jeremy Thorpe (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Liberal Democrats, The Telegraph, ITV News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: MP for 20 years, Leader of the Liberal Pary for 9 years, involved in a famous scandal. --The Theosophist (talk) 12:21, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, do be aware I would not have known that from anything else in the nomination. Reading the guy had a dog shot by a hitman makes him sound more a criminal than a victim. μηδείς (talk) 17:41, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
To be honest, I thought that after clicking the article, it would be obvious. Sorry.-The Theosophist (talk) 19:35, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD subject to referencing. A major figure in British politics in the 60s and 70s, who led the Liberal Party to levels of popularity they had not had for about half a century and was famous for his acerbic wit. His career of course ended in a sensational murder trial, notwithstanding his acquittal. Neljack (talk) 00:44, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] 2014 Grozny clashes

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Article: 2014 Grozny clashes (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 20 people were killed and 28 injured in the aftermath of clashes between security forces and insurgents in the city of Grozny, Russia. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Dozens of people are killed or injured in clashes between security forces and insurgents in Grozny, Russia.
News source(s): BBC Reuters
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Bloodiest terrorist attack in Russia since 2013. --Catlemur (talk) 17:10, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have edited out the word "rambling" as unencyclopedic and a vio of WP:UNDUE and agree that the 'Reactions' section needs additional editing. Jusdafax 09:09, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Both Time and the Washington (Nixonslayer) Post commented on Putin's "rambling" but it's not essential for this article. What other editting do you suggest on the reaction section? It has quotes from involved parties found in reliable sources. μηδείς (talk) 21:58, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The edit by an IP, right after mine, improved the article to my satisfaction, though like many articles it could stand further work. New articles are seldom perfect. I'm not sure the material about the "light applause" is needed. That's merely an alleged reaction to a reaction, and of dubious value as I see it. Jusdafax 23:11, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Late comment It's been days since this was posted, so I took a look at the article after all the work. There are all of 8 sentences that deal with the actual event, most of which are repetitive. The lede appears again in the (questionably titled) "Timeline" section, almost word-for-word. There are apparent non-sequiturs: the line about people carrying Putin's picture in a parade some years ago; and the still-present commentary on the State of the Union speech. Additionally, this is a minor spurt of violence in a part of the world where this is common. By my reading, the article is in poor shape and covers a trivial event, so I guess I'm still confused how this got approved and so quickly.128.214.53.18 (talk) 06:01, 8 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 3

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December 3, 2014 (2014-12-03) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

RD: Ian McLagan

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Article: Ian McLagan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian CNN NPR BBC Rolling Stone
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Prominent member of the Faces and Small Faces. According to the Guardian, his "evocative playing became part of the fabric of rock’n’roll history"-this seems to meet the second RD criterion. --Everymorning talk to me 13:03, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ha ha, very funny (and not true, as I was busy listening to Elvis, Sinatra, Cash and Cline back then). Can you point out bigger hits than the one's I've mentioned where he's given credit? I'm willing to change my mind, but the research doesn't tend to make me want to do so. μηδείς (talk) 22:47, 5 December 2014 (UTC) [reply]
"I feel inclined to blow my mind, Get hung up feed the ducks with a bun." Martinevans123 (talk) 23:00, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's from Itchycoo Park. The BBC adds that McLagan played on "Cindy Incidentally" as well, [46] which according to our article on the song was on the UK charts for 9 weeks. Everymorning talk to me 23:05, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I'd say those piano riffs on "Cindy Incidentally" were pretty distinctive, "iconic" even. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:17, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Death of Eric Garner

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No consensus to post. Stephen 22:11, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Death of Eric Garner (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A grand jury declines to indict police officer Daniel Pantaleo in the death of Eric Garner. (Post)
News source(s): NBC News
Credits:
Nominator's comments: I realize this is nowhere near as significant as Michael Brown. However, it is still getting a lot of news coverage, [47] and has sparked protests across the country. [48] --Everymorning talk to me 02:46, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Does not reach the significance of the Michael Brown case, and even the nomination of that story on ITN was rather controversial.--WaltCip (talk) 04:27, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support given the murder of the black-market cigarette vendor was done against NYPD regulations by an illegal choke hold, not the shooting of a charging theft suspect. μηδείς (talk) 04:36, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Can we please not play this game again? We're already stuck with one parochical matter in the ITN box. Now you'd like to add another even more parochial matter into the ITN box? Absurd. Little parochial stranglings, however distasteful, disdainful, or inciting, do not belong at ITN. We need to be selective. We are not a news ticker. What's more, merely because such a story happens in America does not mean that we post it. Think about what has encyclopaedic value, not about yellowness. RGloucester — ☎ 04:41, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per RGloucester. Hard to believe this was nominated seriously, really. Do we report every grand jury outcome in the United States now? GoldenRing (talk) 05:21, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Good faith or not, this nomination is simply wrong. RGloucester — ☎ 15:06, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
How is it "wrong" to nominate something getting news coverage for "In the News"? This comment isn't constructive. People should be encouraged to make any good-faith nominations they see fit to make. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:36, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think the point is we can extend good faith so far, but extending it to every decision of every court in the US which results in a few disgruntled people is simply not required. When nominating, people should demonstrate that the are aware of what is required. This is a snow close and, like the Ferguson "riots", which have come to absolutely nothing whatsoever, we should remind ourselves that this is an encyclopedia and not a news ticker for American racial tension issues. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:03, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No, a merger would be entirely inappropriate. According to witnesses Brown had already attacked and was charging the officer who shot him. The New York incident involves a non-fleeing man choked to death against police regulations for selling loose cigarettes on a street corner, not robbing a bodega. In the first incident the policeman was cleared. In the second incident it looks like the killer, who has been suspended, will be fired, sued, and brought up on federal charges. μηδείς (talk) 19:32, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] Snap election in Sweden (2015)

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Consensus is to wait for results. SpencerT♦C 22:36, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Swedish general election, 2015 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Löfven announces his intention to hold a snap election after the proposed Social Democratic budget is voted down. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Löfven announces his intention to dissolve the Riksdag after his government's budget is voted down, the first such dissolution since 1958.
News source(s): [49], [50], [51]
Credits:
Nominator's comments: First time that fresh elections are announced since 1958. --BabbaQ (talk) 16:21, 3 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until the results of the election are in. We don't generally post upcoming elections, whether scheduled or called. It's a mildly interesting constitutional development in Sweden, but I think we can be safe waiting for the results on this one. --Jayron32 17:28, 3 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, snap is the term. And the formal snap election announcement is slated for 29 December, so this is a premature nomination on two counts. Stephen 21:54, 3 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If we post it now or then is insignificant and a formality. But if users find it that important to follow formalitys we can wait.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:58, 3 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for the election itself, when the results will be posted per ITNR. I get that this sort of thing hasn't happened often in Sweden, but it is not unusual in countries with parliamentary systems. 331dot (talk) 22:11, 3 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support with 'snap election' or 'extra election' in the blurb. This will apparently be the first such election in Sweden since the 1950s, and it's in the news today because it's been precipitated by the failure of the minority government to gets its budget approved. That's what the news is. The formalities aren't news. The news is 'Löfven can't keep governing, calls an election', and that happened today. AlexTiefling (talk) 23:19, 3 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose unless this leads to a change in government and PM, otherwise support. μηδείς (talk) 00:50, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait, post results. As per ITN/R, only results are to be posted. Waiting until March is no problem. Abductive (reasoning) 01:23, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Waiting until March is a HUGE problem if the word "snap" is literal. I am not sure if this should just be closed now, or if we should hash out a proper translation for something that means immediate, but long, long form now. μηδείς (talk) 01:48, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No, it isn't "literal". It is the established phrase in English for such elections in parliamentary systems. Please see snap election. RGloucester — ☎ 01:52, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That edit soummary is so humourous it's almoust founny; like a snap freeze that takes four mounths tou happen! Lets see what happens next Mourch. μηδείς (talk) 02:39, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Wording As opposed to...are there "stale" elections? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.141.22.148 (talk) 02:41, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Again, read "fresh" as "snap" (see snap election. mostly adjusted over an hour ago. ---Sluzzelin talk 03:09, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 2

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December 2, 2014 (2014-12-02) (Tuesday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Business and economy
  • A major Switzerland based commodities firm, Trafigura, played a "pivotal" role in the ability of the semi-autonomous Kurdish region of Iraq to export oil, exports that the central government in Baghdad has prohibited. (Reuters)

Health

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

[Posted] RD: Jean Béliveau

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Article: Jean Béliveau (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC RDS
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: 14 time All-Star, 2x MVP, considered one of the top 10 ice hockey players of all time. --Teemu08 (talk) 05:08, 3 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 1

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December 1, 2014 (2014-12-01) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

[Posted] 102nd Grey Cup

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Article: 102nd Grey Cup (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Canadian football, the Calgary Stampeders defeat the Hamilton Tiger-Cats to win the 102nd Grey Cup. (Post)
News source(s): CBC,
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: ITNR, championship game of the Canadian Football League --Resolute 03:38, 1 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Very notable game and event, deserves to be on ITN. The fact it's on ITN/R solidifies it. Could we have a picture of Grey Cup MVP Bo Levi Mitchell in there as well? Aerospeed (Talk) 04:17, 1 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ http://presidentofindia.nic.in/press-release-detail.htm?1294
  2. ^ http://presidentofindia.nic.in/press-release-detail.htm?1294
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