Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bill Montgomery (Turning Point USA)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Turning Point USA#Formation and activities; I have separately taken the editorial action of redirecting and leaving the very limited mergeable content under the redirect. Stifle (talk) 11:58, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bill Montgomery (Turning Point USA)

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This article fails WP:GNG, WP:NOTMEMORIAL, WP:POVFORK, WP:NOTNEWS and WP:V since there is no corroborating information other than a news source that claims this person was registered as a founder of Turning Point USA. ^Atsme _Talk 📧 21:31, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 23:28, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 23:28, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He is clearly notable, as can be shown by the multiple WP:RS reporting his death and political career. Multiple WP:RS also describe him as a co-founder. -- The Anome (talk) 23:31, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I urge you to review the sources and consider the depth of misinformation in those news sources. Think about why media juxtaposed that man's death with Turning Point USA - that is not what an encyclopedia publishes, and it certainly doesn't pass WP:10YT. Some of the cited media TOTALLY misrepresented the facts. There is not even one RS that corroborates or even factually verifies that Montgomery's death was from COVID-19. The best we can do is cite 2 friends on social media. Montgomery worked behind the scenes for Turning Point USA handling the bookwork. He was a mentor who encouraged young conservatives during his retirement years. There is nothing notable about volunteering one's services to a nonprofit organization, and there is certainly nothing notable about dying from covid complications at age 80; that is sad, not notable. Notability is not inherited, either, so his association with Charlie Kirk and Turning Point USA doesn't automatically make him notable. ^Atsme _Talk 📧 05:29, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We have multiple reliable sources stating that he died of COVID-19. For example: [1], [2]. -- The Anome (talk) 17:00, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete the claims in the article do not have the sourcing that would lead to actually showing notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:48, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- What sourcing do you want, other than WP:RS? He's clearly notable, as can be seen by multiple mainstream news sources publishing obits. -- The Anome (talk) 17:01, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Anything that verfies the claim made about being candidate?Djflem (talk) 21:07, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing that I could find. ^Atsme _Talk 📧 22:26, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You can be notable even if you are not a legislative candidate. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 10:38, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Emir of Wikipedia: But you cannot claim to be a legislative candidate if your are not a legislative candidate, as this article does. Can you provide a RS that conforms with the pillar of verifiability? Djflem (talk) 14:59, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think it might have been a mix-up with Bill Montgomery (Arizona politician). -- Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 15:06, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good catch, Emir. I went and ahead and removed it; however, I'm of the mind that WP:BIO1E also applies in this case. Turning Point USA has many volunteers, and as I've stated above Montgomery would have remained relatively unknown were it not for his death to COVID-19. The majority of COVID deaths have been in the ≥65 population. There are many people who have given Kirk advice and/or contributed financially to TPUSA, but WP requires more than that to establish notability, and dying of COVID-19 does not fit that requirement per WP:NOTNEWS, Who's who. Even when an event is notable, individuals involved in it may not be. Unless news coverage of an individual goes beyond the context of a single event, our coverage of that individual should be limited to the article about that event, in proportion to their importance to the overall topic. (See Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons for more details.) The coverage is more about Kirk and Turning Point USA than about Montgomery. ^Atsme _Talk 📧 00:31, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:SIGCOV. There are several obituaries in reliable sources. FWIW, I am a liberal Democrat, but I still think in all fairness that he's notable. Bearian (talk) 14:42, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Selective Merge to Turning Point USA#Formation and activities, where relevant info about Bill Montgomery's inspiration/influence on founder could have a place per Wikipedia:BIO1E. Djflem (talk) 19:08, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, quite a lot of the discussion is over whether or not current refs in the article show significant coverage and demonstrate notability, so I've used this tool to make a table analysing each source currently in the article to see if they demonstrate notability or not. This is just my personal assessment, however, so it's not "official" or anything. If you disagree with my assessment, please say so. Seagull123 Φ 10:59, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

**Source assessment table: prepared by User:Seagull123**
Source	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
1 - The Bulwark (website)	? I've never heard of this website before, so I can't say if this is a reliable source or not	One brief mention of Montgomery in the article	✘ No
2 - POLITICO		Doesn't appear to mention Montgomery at all	✘ No
3 - POLITICO		Article about his death; it does dedicate quite a lot of writing to Charlie Kirk and his thoughts on masks/coronavirus, however	✔ Yes
4 - Washington Examiner	Apart from appearing to deny climate change; I haven't seen anything that makes me think this website isn't an RS	~ Article about Charlie Kirk, discusses Montgomery in relation to how he "discovered" Kirk	~ Partial
5 - Crain's Chicago Business		Brief mention of Montgomery as how he "handles paperwork—“the old guy who keeps it all legal,”"	✘ No
6 - The Atlantic		~ Mainly about Kirk, but does discuss in some length Montgomery's role	~ Partial
7 - Fox News	? Per WP:RSP, there's no consensus on Fox's reliability on political matters	About his death	? Unknown
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Merge to Turning Point USA#Formation and activities per Djflem. A couple of articles about his death fails WP:GNG, but whatever information deemed encyclopedic could certainly be added to the main article. Hat tip to Seagull123 for the good work. Perusing the table above shows me the situation is even stronger for a merge (or delete) than I'd originally determined. petrarchan47 คุ ก 18:15, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete being a guy who contributes a lot to a non-profit may make you a good person, may bring you a lot of karma, but it does not, in and of itself, make you notable. Neither does the cause of death in this case. unless more RS can be found relating to his life, not just his death. Nightenbelle (talk) 17:55, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.