Penguino35

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Greater Philadelphia Hispanic Chamber of Commerce

Hello Penguino35,

It seems to me that an article you worked on, Greater philadelphia hispanic chamber of commerce, may have something copied from http://inkandescentnetworking.com/hosts/chamber-of-commerce/philadelphia-hispanic-chamber-of-commerce. It's entirely possible that I made a mistake, but I wanted to let you know because Wikipedia is strict about copying from other sites.

It's important that you edit the article and rewrite it in your own words, unless you're absolutely certain nothing in it is copied. If you're not sure how to fix the problem or have any questions, there are people at the help desk who are happy to assist you.

Thank you for helping build a free encyclopedia! MadmanBot (talk) 20:00, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

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Response to comments at Talk:2023 Nashville school shooting

Hello! I thought any response to your comments at the aforementioned talk page wouldn’t have been appropriate, so I’ve decided to respond here.

I agree with all of your points and I’m concerned that some editors are entering WP:RGW, WP:IDHT and WP:NOTHERE grounds in regards to how we should identify the shooter as Audrey Elizabeth Hale or Aiden Hale. Personally, I’m surprised that such a fierce and divisive debate has managed to last so long on what should be a fairly trivial point in comparison to the shooting at large, yet discussion of the gender identity of the shooter dominates above all else? I find it quite perplexing, and arguments often get restarted time and time again, with some editors showing a blatant disregard for WP:RS, with a preference for Hale’s LinkedIn being used as the source for Hale’s preferred name and pronouns? As you said, such material could easily be tampered with, and I’m afraid that a loophole is created by documentation regarding MOS:DEADNAME and MOS:GENDERID.

Part of my closing thoughts on this is that I hope some form of consensus can be reached on the issue. Consensus should’ve been reached a long time ago, but as per the WP:RGW concerns I laid out earlier, I don’t think this going to be the case for some time. Yasslaywikia (talk) 22:51, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

@Yasslaywikia,

Thank you for reaching out. The fact that we feel incapable of having this discussion on the talk page is concerning to me, which is the problem with ideologies as opposed to a case-by-case, nuanced approach that, from my perspective, is more in-line with Wikipedia policy and style.

I can understand and respect the desire to support a trans-person's chosen identity. As one editor wrote, even Bin Laden doesn't get misgendered posthumously, but Bin Laden has a lot of verifiable sources solely referencing him as male, so the parallel doesn't work out. Penguino35 (talk) 15:37, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

@Penguino35,

You're welcome. I'm greatly troubled by it too, it feels as if we cannot express an opinion different to what others have to say nowadays! I agree with what you say about the loss of nuance which discussions on Wikipedia have experienced. I hate to say this, but it is really starting to feel like an agenda is being pushed on the talk page. I feel like some editors, and I will not name drop who they are as I feel that would be a personal attack, but I have a feeling that they are, as I said, not here to build an encylopedia, but rather right great wrongs and refuse to accept different points of view on the matter, to the point that they are ignoring what reliable sources have to say on the matter, which is starting to sound a lot like soapboxing to me.

In regards to the parallels drawn between Bin Laden and Hale's identity, I agree with what you're saying here. I feel as if some editors, including myself, discouraging to support Hale's preferred identity because of what he's/she's done. However, considering that one of the very few sources which point to Hale's trans identity is on Hale's former social media profiles on sites like LinkedIn, it isn't even known for certain is Hale was trans at any point and if he/she used the name "Aiden" at any point, and IIRC, his/her name was still listed as Audrey on LinkedIn from when I last saw it. Don't take my word for it, but I'm starting to feel like there's an overemphasis being put on his/her trans identity at this point by both sides.

To sum up, I'm not even sure how to feel about this anymore. I feel as if I'm damned if I say one thing and damned if I say another thing. I have legitimate concerns for how information will be presented about Hale on the shooting page, and I will say this again, but I think an extreme emphasis has been put on his/her (supposed) trans identity. I hope something can be done about it soon. Yasslaywikia (talk) 15:55, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

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