User talk:Ohconfucius/archive08

DEFENDER OF HONG KONG

8:55 AM, Friday November 1, 2024

This user is a native of Hong Kong.

This user is a citizen of the United Kingdom.

This user lives in France.

This user has been on Wikipedia for 18 years, 10 months and 2 days.

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To keep all discussions coherent, I will reply on the same page where messages are left for me. Thanks for stopping by.

Image:Master_li_hongzhi.jpg copyright

I letting you know that I just tagged this image as a potential copyright violation. I understand that you could not find a free image of Mr. Li online. However, I have met the man in person and can attest that he is living and it is possible to get a picture of him, if perhaps difficult. Thus, I believe this falls under category 12 of unacceptable images in the non-free content policy. I have a friend who goes to Falun Gong conferences and may have a replacement image.Bdentremont (talk) 20:17, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

You said on my talk page "Actually, maybe I put the picture up before discovering that Falun Gong released their images for free distribution." This make it sound like you think the images on falundafa.org, and clearwisdom.net may already be under a public license and all we need to do is change the licensing terms on Wikipedia. Indeed the presentation on the website strongly suggests intent that these photos and documents be redistributed. However, there is no indication that this is legal. I e-mailed contact@falundafa.org requesting clarification of image licensing. Sorry, I don't have a picture. I don't seek out interaction with Mr. Li and on the occasion that I was introduced to him saw no need to photograph him. He tends to make public appearances mainly at FG conferences, which my friend the practitioner says have a ban on cameras. By the way, I appreciate your good work. Particularly, your rant about Falun Gong pages is sadly on target and reflects the broader conflict over this outside of WP. -- Bdentremont (talk) 05:02, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind words. I kind of wish it wasn't as I ranted about, but it was a very nasty experience for me. As for the images, other practitioners have also failed to obtain clarification from FD about the status of images, and as the copyright notice does not explicitly mention GFDL or CC by SA, so their inclusion on public domain grounds have often been challenged. From what you said, it may not be that easy to take photographs of Li after all. ;-) Ohconfucius (talk) 05:09, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I got a prompt reply from a volunteer at falundafa.org indicating that he was looking in to the copyright status and would get back to me. I will let you know when/if I hear something more. -- Bdentremont (talk) 21:53, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Need some advice

Hi, if you have time to chat, can I ask for your advice on something? Non-FLG related BTW--PCPP (talk) 15:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Allegations of apartheid deletion notification

Some time ago, you participated in a deletion discussion concerning Allegations of Chinese apartheid. I thought you might like to know that the parent article, Allegations of apartheid, was recently nominated for deletion. Given that many of the issues that have been raised are essentially the same as those on the article on which you commented earlier, you may have a view on whether Allegations of apartheid should be kept or deleted. If you wish to contribute to the discussion, please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allegations of apartheid (fifth nomination). -- ChrisO (talk) 17:55, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Paris tramway

Sorry, I'm on hollidays.

The only problem I saw was that Template:Paris tramway/transfer‎ links were incorrect.

Is it ok for you now?

BTW, if you have some time, could you check/upgrade Category:Paris public transport templates templates?

Gonioul (talk) 23:00, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Very nice!

Hey, I loved your comments in the AfD discussion for the alleged 2009 film version of "My Fair Lady." Great fun! Ecoleetage (talk) 12:21, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Money Art

Your coin pun at this deletion discussion would have made me laugh and groan at the same time if that were physically possible. :) Somno (talk) 05:11, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Admin?

Hi. I just noticed that you are not an administrator. Any reason for that? Would you be interested? (First, you'd need to enable your e-mail! ) —Wknight94 (talk) 11:39, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Good humour but in that grey zone between offensive and funny

Wondering what the pork was doing here. Cos, some people would feel that it was totally uncalled for (in spite of the nice apology) since you could have made your point without it, and others like me would have been a wee bit more careful! Cheers. :) Prashanthns (talk) 06:17, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Foreign domestic helpers in Hong Kong

To repair a dead link go to the Internet Archive and enter the url. For the majority of the time, it will be able to find the link at a prior date when basically a screenshot was taken, which can then be linked to within the article. If there is an available date, just click on it and copy the url and paste it back into the article in place of the old link. For the access dates, it's best to update them occasionally so that readers know that the links still work. Checking every few months or at least once a year is a good way to find the dead links and attempt to repair them. Let me know if you need further help on any of these. Otherwise, the article still looks to me like it meets the GA criteria. --Nehrams2020 (talk) 09:09, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

N0tability discussions

The baseball notability guidelines are under discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball, you may be interested in participating. Spanneraol (talk) 19:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Taking actions against Dilip

This guy obviously has no interest in cooperating with the wikipedia community. He accused Antilived (talk · contribs) of being a vandal and CCP propagandist for adding a source by Phoenix TV to Reports of organ harvesting from Falun Gong in China [1] and took him to ANI [2]. Additionally he claimed that the "Nine Commentaries" is a reliable source of criticism of the CCP.[3]. I will no longer hold this user in good faith.--PCPP (talk) 16:08, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Leung Chin-man appointment controversy

Nice job. :) F (talk) 08:39, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks. Ohconfucius (talk) 08:59, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Gary Glitter

Thanks for your advice note. Did you edit only the references, and not any of my body copy changes? Earthlyreason (talk) 05:14, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

• What I was trying to say was that I attempted to copy your changes back after I had fixed the refs. Apologies if I missed anything. Ohconfucius (talk) 05:16, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
  • OK, I've checked and it's fine. Earthlyreason (talk) 06:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for your message. With all due respect to your excellent contributions to Wikipedia, I've had long experience with editors who blank massively without first seeking and obtaining consensus, as is our procedure at WP. From today's edits, you appear to be one of those. If and when you pledge to me you will abide by this thoughtful, considered manner of editing, you may post to my discussion page further. Otherwise, please post your opinions to other discussion pages rather than mine. Badagnani (talk) 05:54, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

• With all due respect, I do not need your permission to do anything here on wikipedia, nor am I obliged to pledge anything to you. I would remind you that consensus is not the only driving principle here on WP, WP:NPOV is a pillar, which the article appears to be violating through undue weight. Ohconfucius (talk) 05:58, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Continued conversation

Sorry if the Wikiquette request was alarming, I just wasn't comfortable with the inadvertent aggression expressed towards Badagnani by means of overstatement. I'm not sure what barbs you and have exchanged in the past, but I could not find tangible evidence on this talk page to support allegations of WP:ATTACK, WP:BITE, WP:CIVIL, or WP:OWN. He was not discourteous to any extent beyond good faith forgiveness. Irregardless, we all make mistakes from time to time, and I see no reason to pursue retribution.

With that aside, I'm intrigued by the fact that you are a Chinese-speaking contributor with 12,000+ edits. I'm interested in the possibility of collaborating to take this article up to featured criteria — if that is something you are also interested in, do let me know.   — C M B J   08:55, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I was just getting stuck into the article when I got hit smack in the face by the user you were referring to. His record speaks for itself, and his talk page is littered with examples of his aggression towards other users in food articles - what most people would find impossibly uncontroversial. If you are really interested in why I have an issue with said user, you may care to look at the diffs provided an invisible entry I made to your talk page. Of course I would be interested in bringing the article to GA or FA status. I'll be staying around despite the attacks. I've seen worse on the Falun Gong articles. Ohconfucius (talk) 09:35, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

"His talk page is littered with examples of his aggression towards other users in food articles - what most people would find impossibly uncontroversial." That brought me to tears in laughter. But even if he does have a mixed record, he wasn't doing anything inexcusable; and has brought some 1,250 articles to Wikipedia over the course of 3 years.

I'll try to incite collaboration on the article's talk page as soon as I can. If you remove any content without merging it elsewhere, please note the revision diffs on the talk page.   — C M B J   10:27, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I wasn't exactly rejoicing over the multiple disputes he has gotten himself into, but was pointing out the likely roots of the current dispute. Of course, there is his rather provocative way of doing things. Also, it takes two to tango, so I guess I am equally to blame ;-) I would add that I tend not to weigh editors contributions by the number of edits or pages started, but on the quality of the contributions and how they work with the community. Some, like our "friend", go around creating articles like amassing notches on their bedposts, yet cause so much friction and ill-will in the process that one might wish they were not there. But then, it takes all sorts to make a world. Ohconfucius (talk) 12:50, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Are you aware of any official Olympic bid documents with more detailed information than this one?   — C M B J   12:01, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Page protection of Concerns and controversies over the 2008 Summer Olympics was denied.   — C M B J   08:49, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the information. Good work on cleaning up the talk page, BTW. We made a huge mess of it. ;-) Ohconfucius (talk) 08:57, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Attack at Beijing Drum Tower during 2008 Olympics

You are the latest in an ever evolving move-a-thon of the article. I'm surprised you have reverted it back to a title that reflects the "attack" as focused on the Americans. What is your reasoning for not including the Chinese tour guide also attacked and the fact that the man attacked the Chinese tour guide first. .:davumaya:. 10:02, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. I have reverted the title so it does not focus exclusively on the American victims. WWGB (talk) 10:46, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I accept the comments in that regard. However, kindly note my objection wasn't so much to the American vs Chinese (or not, as the case may be) victims, but the reference to the Beijing olympics, which I believed to be tangential at best and violated WP:NPOV at worst. Therefore I tried to shift the focus to [date] plus [action]. I found surprisingly little discussion in the talk pages about renaming the article, though I noticed numerous tell-tale redirects. Ohconfucius (talk) 11:06, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Hehe, the discussion on this is on the AfD pages which have proposed a litany of variations but none have taken hold. I have threatened AfD again on it but am letting the people sweat out and calm down after tempers have flared in the past few weeks. .:davumaya:. 17:28, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

• I hope so too, but unfortunately AfD is not a forum for determining name changes. Ohconfucius (talk) 04:35, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Comment

Someone else placed a helpme on your talkpage but didn't sign. You might want to check your history to see who it was. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 23:33, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Article Referencing

{{helpme}} Hi Ohconfucius... could you give me a little help with referencing please? In the Controversies and concerns over the 2008 Summer Olympics article, Threat to sailing from Algae Bloom section, I have referenced sources more than once. I guess there may be an accepted notation for making multiple references to the same source..? Tsuchan (talk) 00:00, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Citing sources#Using the same citation again. Algebraist 00:04, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for letting me know. I have amalgamated the references on the section concerned. It is done by giving the reference a name, then a reprise tag when subsequently calling it up again. Ohconfucius (talk) 02:24, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the help. I will study the mark-up to use next time. Tsuchan (talk) 06:15, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Sockpuppet case

You may want to comment at this discussion as your talk page was involved, Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Crashingthewaves.Nrswanson (talk) 00:49, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

For checking my spelling. Spelling is definitly not my strong point, and often I don't know how much I actually misspell. I'll try to remember to run spellcheck before posting! -JWGreen (talk) 01:27, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Closed MedCab request

Thunderstruck45 has been blocked indefinitely for sockpuppetry.[4] As such, I have closed Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-08-27 2008 attack during the Olympics. If you need further assistance on this issue, please let me know and I'll see how I can help. Vassyana (talk) 14:04, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Computer programmers' useless toys

Excellent! We need to get serious about at least telling editors that they don't have to use citation templates. Perhaps a capped info package along the lines of the one I produced about the disadvantages of date autoformatting is appropriate ... but I've never used a citation template myself, so perhaps you have the knowledge and experience to produce it ...? I wish I'd known about the template before. Yes, at the very least its wording needs to be changed. But a far better way of getting the word out is to run the script (see capped info above), which automatically provides the relevant links to MOSNUM and CONTEXT in its edit summaries. Perhaps you'd like to try it? Let me know if you do and need assistance.

Installation and usage of date-autoformatting removal script

Instructions for installation

• EITHER: If you have a monobook already, go to it, click "edit this page", and paste in this string underneath your existing script:

importScript('User:Lightmouse/monobook.js/script.js');

• OR: If you don't have a monobook.js page, create one using this title:

[[User:[your username]/monobook.js]]

Then click on "edit this page" and paste in at the top the "importScript" string you see three lines above here.

• Hit "Save page".
• Refresh your cache (instructions at top of monobook).
• You're ready to start.

Applying the script—it's very simple

• Go to an article and determine whether US or international format is used. (For this purpose, it's best to have selected "no preferences" for dates in your user preferences, which will display the raw date formats that our readers see. Otherwise, you'll need to check in edit mode.) Occasionally, you'll see that the wrong format is used (check MOSNUM's guidance on this carefully).
• Click on "edit this page". You'll see the list of script commands under "what links here". Click on either "delink all dates to mdy" (US format) or "delink all dates to mdy" (international format).
• The diff will automatically appear. Check through the changes you're making before saving them. If there are problems, fix them manually before saving, or cancel.
• Leave a note at the article talk page if editors need to negotiate which format to use, or need to be alerted to any other date-related issues.
• Click on "Save page": it's done.

Afterwards

• Respond politely and promptly to any critical comments on your talk page. If someone wants to resist or revert, it's better to back down and move on to improve other articles where WPians appreciate your efforts. NEVER edit-war over date autoformatting; raise the issue at WT:MOSNUM.

Notes

• [1] Treats only square-bracketed dates. The script removes square brackets only, which mostly involves the main text and footnotes; it's acceptable for citation-generated dates to be of a different format, particularly ISO (which must not be used in the main text).
• [2] Piped year-links ([[1989 in baseball|1989]]). On purpose, the script will not touch these.
• [3] Date-sorting templates in tables. As of August 23, a minor tweak must be made to the script (which will update automatically), to deal with the column-sorting template in tables. Please be aware of this in relation to Featured Lists and the like (i.e., hold off there until it's fixed). The "dts" and "dts2" templates are at issue, and can be identified in display mode by a small clickable item at the top of a column. This should be fixed soon.
• [4] Antiquity-related articles. Articles on topics such as ancient Rome should be treated with caution, since the script removes year-links as well, and some editors may argue that there's a case for retaining the simple year and century links from ancient times (e.g., 212). It's better to ask first in these cases. In any case, such articles contain few if any full dates.

And here, if you ever need to convince someone of the need to get rid of low-value bright-blue patches all over the place, is another information package:

Disadvantages of date-autoformatting

• (1) In-house only

• (a) It works only for registered (Wikipedian) users who have set their date preferences and are logged in.
• (b) To our readers out there, it displays all-too-common inconsistencies in raw formatting in bright-blue underlined text, yet conceals them from WPians who are logged in and have chosen preferences.

• (2) Avoids what are merely trivial differences

• (a) It is trivial whether the order is day–month or month–day. It is more trivial than color/colour and realise/realize, yet our consistency-within-article policy on spelling (WP:ENGVAR) has worked very well. English-speakers readily recognise both date formats; all dates after our signatures are international, and no one objects.

• (3) Colour-clutter: the bright-blue underlining of all dates

• (a) It dilutes the impact of high-value links.
• (b) It makes the text slightly harder to read.
• (c) It doesn't improve the appearance of the page.

• (4) Typos and misunderstood coding

• (a) There's a disappointing error-rate in keying in the auto-function; not bracketing the year, and enclosing the whole date in one set of brackets, are examples.
• (b) Once autoformatting is removed, mixtures of US and international formats are revealed in display mode, where they are much easier for WPians to pick up than in edit mode; so is the use of the wrong format in country-related articles.
• (c) Many WPians don't understand date-autoformatting—in particular, how if differs from ordinary linking; often it's applied simply because it's part of the furniture.

• (5) Edit-mode clutter

• (a) It's more work to enter an autoformatted date, and it doesn't make the edit-mode text any easier to read for subsequent editors.

• (6) Limited application

• (a) It's incompatible with date ranges ("January 3–9, 1998", or "3–9 January 1998", and "February–April 2006") and slashed dates ("the night of May 21/22", or "... 21/22 May").
• (b) By policy, we avoid date autoformatting in such places as quotations; the removal of autoformatting avoids this inconsistency.

The consensus against date autoformatting is overwhelming. You may wish to peruse the following capped text to compare two examples, with and without date autoformatting. The DA is forced tot international style—the one pertaining in this particular article—to show all WPians how the blue dates are displayed to almost all readers. MOSNUM prescribes rules for the raw formatting, irrespective of whether or not dates are autoformatted, analogous to our highly successful guidelines for the use of varieties of English. The choice of style is audited during the running of the script to ensure that it is appropriate to the article (i.e., consistent, and country-related where appropriate).

Two examples for comparison

EXAMPLE 1 Original

Marshal Suchet had received orders from Napoleon to commence operations on 14 June; and by rapid marches to secure the mountain passes in the Valais and in Savoy (then part of the Kingdom of Sardinia), and close them against the Austrians. On 15 June, his troops advanced at all points for the purpose of gaining the frontier from Montmeilian, as far as Geneva; which he invested. Thence he purposed to obtain possession of the important passes of Meillerie and St. Maurice; and in this way to check the advance of the Austrian columns from the Valais. At Meillerie the French were met and driven back by the advanced guard of the Austrian right column, on 21 June. By means of forced marches the whole of this column, which Baron Frimont himself accompanied, reached the Arve on 27 June. The left column, under Count Bubna, crossed Mount Cenis on 24 June and 25 June. On 28 June, the column was sharply opposed by the French at Conflans; of which place, however, the Austrians succeeded in gaining possession.

To secure the passage of the river Arve the advanced guard of the right column detached, on 27 June, to Bonneville, on its left; but the French, who had already fortified this place, maintained a stout resistance. In the mean time, however, the Austrians gained possession of the passage at Carrouge; by which means the French were placed under the necessity of evacuating Bonneville, and abandoning the valley of the Arve. The Austrian column now passed Geneva, and drove the French from the heights of Grand Saconex and from St. Genix. On 29 June, this part of the Austrian army moved towards the Jura; and, on 21 July, it ...

DA-free

Marshal Suchet had received orders from Napoleon to commence operations on 14 June; and by rapid marches to secure the mountain passes in the Valais and in Savoy (then part of the Kingdom of Sardinia), and close them against the Austrians. On 15 June, his troops advanced at all points for the purpose of gaining the frontier from Montmeilian, as far as Geneva; which he invested. Thence he purposed to obtain possession of the important passes of Meillerie and St. Maurice; and in this way to check the advance of the Austrian columns from the Valais. At Meillerie the French were met and driven back by the advanced guard of the Austrian right column, on 21 June. By means of forced marches the whole of this column, which Baron Frimont himself accompanied, reached the Arve on 27 June. The left column, under Count Bubna, crossed Mount Cenis on 24 and 25 June. On 28 June, the column was sharply opposed by the French at Conflans; of which place, however, the Austrians succeeded in gaining possession.

To secure the passage of the river Arve the advanced guard of the right column detached, on 27 June, to Bonneville, on its left; but the French, who had already fortified this place, maintained a stout resistance. In the mean time, however, the Austrians gained possession of the passage at Carrouge; by which means the French were placed under the necessity of evacuating Bonneville, and abandoning the valley of the Arve. The Austrian column now passed Geneva, and drove the French from the heights of Grand Saconex and from St. Genix. On 29 June, this part of the Austrian army moved towards the Jura; and, on 21 July, it ...

EXAMPLE 2 Original

On 5 July the main body of the Bavarian Army reached Chalons; in the vicinity of which it remained during 6 June. On this day, its advanced posts communicated, by Epernay, with the Prussian Army. On 7 July Prince Wrede received intelligence of the Convention of Paris, and at the same time, directions to move towards the Loire. On 8 July Lieutenant General Czernitscheff fell in with the French between St. Prix and Montmirail; and drove him across the Morin, towards the Seine. Previously to the arrival of the IV (Bavarian) Corps at Château-Thierry; the French garrison had abandoned the place, leaving behind it several pieces of cannon, with ammunition. On 10 July, the Bavarian Army took up a position between the Seine and the Marne; and Prince Wrede's Headquarters were at La Ferté-sous-Jouarre.

DA-free

On 5 July the main body of the Bavarian Army reached Chalons; in the vicinity of which it remained during 6 June. On this day, its advanced posts communicated, by Epernay, with the Prussian Army. On 7 July Prince Wrede received intelligence of the Convention of Paris, and at the same time, directions to move towards the Loire. On 8 July Lieutenant General Czernitscheff fell in with the French between St. Prix and Montmirail; and drove him across the Morin, towards the Seine. Previously to the arrival of the IV (Bavarian) Corps at Château-Thierry; the French garrison had abandoned the place, leaving behind it several pieces of cannon, with ammunition. On 10 July, the Bavarian Army took up a position between the Seine and the Marne; and Prince Wrede's Headquarters were at La Ferté-sous-Jouarre.

Tony (talk) 03:45, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Date un-linking

Could you be slightly more careful when you're doing date-unlinking work. In Margaret Thatcher you broke a link, and an image by changing September 11 to 11 September (in the context of the September 11 attacks) in text that was not actually being displayed in the article, but was piped, or captioned, with dates which were in the correct format. David Underdown (talk) 13:41, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

• My apologies for the oversight. Ohconfucius (talk) 13:43, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Image:Mandy Tam baptism.jpg

The PUI noticeboard is for images that are marked as free but may not be. For images already marked non-free and used under a fair use claim, use {{subst:rfu}} if you think the image is replaceable and {{subst:dfu|reason}} if you think the rationale provided doesn't justify its use.

If replying, please copy your reply to my talk page (or use {{talkback}}) as I do not watchlist pages where I leave a message. Stifle (talk) 14:35, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Date formats after autoformatting

With the recent deprecation of date autoformatting, "raw" dates are becoming increasingly visible on Wikipedia. Strong views are being expressed, and even some edit-warring here and there. A poll has been initiated to gauge community support to help us develop wording in the Manual of Style that reflects a workable consensus. As you have recently commented on date formats, your input would be helpful in getting this right. Four options have been put forward, summarised as:

1. Use whatever format matches the variety of English used in the article
2. For English-speaking countries, use the format used in the country, for non-English-speaking countries, use the format chosen by the first editor that added a date to the article
3. Use International format, except for U.S.-related articles
4. Use the format used in the country

The poll may be found here, as a table where you may indicate your level of support for each option above. --Pete (talk) 17:45, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

date type of template

Hi - I'm interesting in your comments on User:Dmadeo/DA which I've been noodling with. Take a look if you're interested, please leave brief, civil and constructive feedback if you'd like. I think it addresses all the concerns I've seen brought up, but I could use some other opinions before I point it out to a larger audience at MOSNUM Thanks dm (talk) 05:44, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback, I've replied there dm (talk) 22:23, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again for your comments - I'm travelling so will be offline for a day or two dm (talk) 15:05, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:HKEx.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:HKEx.gif. You've indicated that the image is being used under a claim of fair use, but you have not provided an adequate explanation for why it meets Wikipedia's requirements for such images. In particular, for each page the image is used on, the image must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Can you please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for each article the image is used in.
• That every article it is used on is linked to from its description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --FairuseBot (talk) 11:40, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Date format poll confirmation

You recently contributed to a poll on date formats.[5] The option you supported won the poll but is now an option in a final poll to test support against the current version.[6] The poll gives full instructions, but briefly the choices are:

• C = Option C, the winner of the initial poll and run-off. (US articles have US format dates, international format otherwise)
• R = Retain existing wording. (National format for English-speaking countries, no guidance otherwise).

If you wish to participate or review the progress of this poll, you may follow this link. --Pete (talk) 04:32, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Derrick Sims' page

On 9/17/2008, "The River," a film where Sims was director of photography" was added to the internet movie database. His credit, along with others, are to be added within the coming week. Since there is no previous feature-length DP credit for Sims, it's taken a bit longer to be added. The same goes for the director. However, the film was added today, and that's justifiable reason that the filmmaker, Sims, is a viable filmmaker whose article should remain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chowningsferry (talk • contribs) 03:40, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Concerns and controversies over the 2008 Summer Olympics

I'm still willing to bring the article up to GA status. If we tackle one section at a time, things may progress more quickly.   — C M B J   03:20, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

• I'm with you. It's now been a few weeks and we should be able to look at it again more objectively. Ohconfucius (talk) 14:25, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

2008 baby milk scandal

Please pause in your editing and join us at the talk page. NJGW (talk) 04:32, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Let's get consensus on how to continue forward before any of us edits more. NJGW (talk) 04:41, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

PLEASE, we are not done yet. NJGW (talk) 04:49, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

STOP, we have not come to a resolution yet. I agree that some of those refs are bad (shouldn't use google cache etc), but you are now well past 3rr. NJGW (talk) 06:57, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you not being a little unreasonable here? I am updating the article with stuff that has little to do with the dispute we are having. Ohconfucius (talk) 06:59, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

But you are ignoring the discussion and making changes related to the discussion. NJGW (talk) 07:09, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

• The world doesn't stop spinning just because we're arguing, and you appear to be just trying to stop me from getting on and improving the article. However, I will say that if I do stop all changes, it will make it easier for me to revert to the un-templated version of the article. Ohconfucius (talk) 07:13, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The main issue is that you seem to think that it's OK to revert a whole load of other people's revisions because of your single preference for citation format. You are already at 3rr just for the first mass revision, so maybe you should reconsider all this mass revision talk. NJGW (talk) 07:18, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

• Did I really revert three times already? well, you just got me shivering... Ohconfucius (talk) 07:21, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Look, I'm going to sleep. Please don't make mass reversions, and try to come to an agreement with the people still awake. As for shivering at wp:3RR, well that's your prerogative. NJGW (talk) 07:33, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

• Strange things are known to happen when people sleep, like I found. Ohconfucius (talk) 07:34, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Copyright issues

I have noticed you have reedited several entries to the 2008 baby milk scandal article. I disagree with you in regards to the what is pertains to copyright violations and the public domain. Please do not delete whole entries without consulting the rest of us. Thank you. Roman888 (talk) 07:00, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

• It appears to me that you are not only ignorant of the principles of copyright, you are proceeding in a deliberate manner. I believe you are mistaken in your comprehension of what constitutes public domain. I have already rewritten the text you placed there once already, and continued re-insertion of copyright violating material will not be tolerated. Any further violation in this regard will be reported to administrators, Thank you for your attention. Ohconfucius (talk) 07:31, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

• • Not only do are you the ignorant one in the "principles of copyright", you proceed to vandalise whole articles to fit within your narrow definition of copyright and public domain. You proceed to take out whole entries without making the effort to consult with other Wikipedians. Roman888 (talk) 07:50, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|25px]] Please stop your disruptive editing, such as the edit you made to 2008 baby milk scandal. If your vandalism continues, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia.

• You are soooo wrong. Please be informed that no consultation or consensus is ever necessary for removing copyrighted text - it is one of the cornerstones of wikipedia. My definition is hardly 'narrow' when your edits are word for word C&P. Furthermore, WP:3RR does not apply to any reverts of these violations, the continuation of which (after due warning) is considered vandalism. You can "warn" me until you are blue in the face, the intimidation will fail. I suggest that you please be cool! You will find it less difficult than you may think to start writing text in your own words! Plagiarism is just so uncool. Ohconfucius (talk) 08:43, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Arilang1234

Hi, I am quite new to wiki, but I am willing to learn. You may have notice that I have put a title "State Council Special Food Supply" under "Impact" Please have a look when you have time.As far as I know, 99.9% of Chinese netizens hate this "Special Supply" outfit. Anyway, it is an open secret in China(What else is not secretive, you may ask.)Arilang1234 (talk) 10:08, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

• At first, I did not see the relevance. But looking at the source document, I can see that it can be tied into the article. I'll work on it. Ohconfucius (talk) 10:38, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi, it's me again.Due to the possibility of future legal action by anyone who had consumed food at the Beijing Olympic Centre, I think it is important to make a permanent record of this web page: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-09/17/content_10052104.htm, which carries the statement made by sacked head of quality control.Arilang1234 (talk) 10:45, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for moving it to a different section. I think it needs to be expanded a bit especially when many Chinese netizents comment that it was the sole supplier to both Olympic. Consider the impact of a class legal action taken up by international Olympians against the (1)IOC (2) Beijing Olympic Committee (3) Beijing City government (4)Chinese Central government. It is mind numbing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arilang1234 (talk • contribs) 11:03, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

• I'll have a look at the sources you posted, and will look for some more sources along those lines you suggested. I have to stop for the moment, I'll work on it later. Thanks for your input. Ohconfucius (talk) 11:06, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Beijing Sanyuan Foods Co.,http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=atRrHpZUx45U&refer=asia was named by many Chinese netizens as one of the "special supply" company.Arilang1234 (talk) 14:35, 26 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arilang1234 (talk • contribs)

• Hi, I have the official Beijing Sanyuan web site here:http://www.sanyuan.com.cn/ .There is unconfirmed report that Beijing Sanyuan is going to buy Fonterra out of Sanlu, and I think we will see more of Beijing Sanyuan in the coming weeks. Is it possible to copy the whole Beijing Sanyuan web site and make a permanent wiki record of it? I think the international news media will put it under spot light soon.Arilang1234 (talk) 23:15, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

• Making a wiki of the whole site would not be acceptable according to WP:COPY. However, there is nothing to stop any private download and archive of each page. However, the website is of high quality, and seeing that some of the articles there are dated 2007, I feel they are serious about web maintenance and transparency. Just linking to the relevant page, putting small amounts of specific text in each citation to allow others to ensure no ambiguity in translation is acceptable. Please see WP:CITE for more details. Ohconfucius (talk) 02:01, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
• The material you placed in the article has been moved, keeping only the bare essentials. You will see that I created an article for Beijing Sanyuan Foods Co. Ohconfucius (talk) 05:17, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
• Thanks. I got more info on Sanyuan, but only in Chinese, also the web site is non-neutral(anti communist), may be wiki would reject it ?http://news.boxun.com/news/gb/pubvp/2008/09/200809271029.shtmlArilang1234 (talk) 06:03, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
• I am beginning to use www.boxun.com english version, is it acceptable in wiki?Arilang1234 (talk) 08:18, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

• So long as we do it sparingly, there is nothing which prevents us from using foreign language sources, but because it is en.WP, we must only use it if no English sources can be found for that information. In addition, a site may be reliable yet biased. It does not stop us from including "the facts", it would be OK. Sources are cited to verify information in the article. We are allowed to include opinions, if they are relevant and its importance is weighted to its context. If you are in doubt about anything specific, you can still put it in. I will play with it, to get it acceptably neutral. Ohconfucius (talk) 10:56, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
• In this case can you started a page for Zhu Yonglan, she is right now a hot internet topic, because Xinhua is saying she does not exist.Arilang1234 (talk) 11:05, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

• Interesting: yet another case of state paranoia. They wanted to reassure the world that the food eaten by olympic athletes ate was safe, now they regret it because the peasant's are revolting.They are in another damage control mode, lying to cover things up. It's like they have a skirt that is way too short in the front -turn it around, and your ass shows. ;-) Ohconfucius (talk) 06:36, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

• State Council (China's Cabinet) Party and State Organizations Special Food Supply Center Director Zhu Yonglan, also, please create link for (Sanyuan)or (Beijing Sanyuan) when you are free. Arilang1234 (talk) 11:07, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
• I think the WHO response may be better put on a higher positionArilang1234 (talk) 01:48, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

• I would hold back from creating an article on Zhu Yonglan now. The chances are it will get deleted because there are not references directly relating to her. What we have right now are only what is called "trivial mentions". By that definition, she is not notable. Ohconfucius (talk) 07:04, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
• (1) The "Special Supply Center" does exist, but now its official web site blocking non-members, so it's members only can log in.(2)Zhu Yonglan does exist, she is the departmental head of that "Special Supply Center"(3) Nearly all the major western media have this article on their web site, the Chinese Communist Party has become the laughing stock of the world! (4) On boxun.com there are many jpeg. of goods with official "Special Supply" logos on it, can you "wiki" them somehow?(4) I still think the official Zhu Yonglan's speech is of historical importance, can you "wiki" it somehow? (5) I hate myself for not knowing wiki years ago.(6) User took delete the Wen Jiabao comment(mlik for every chinese), can you see to it when you have time?Arilang1234 (talk) 07:35, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
• I think soon we will be seeing headlines news about Fonterra-Sanlu-Sanyuan takeover wars, and Fonterra China has set up(or setting up) 3000-cows farm in China.Arilang1234 (talk) 15:44, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

• Chunks from the text you are adding appear to be taken verbatim from on-line sources. I would urge you to exercise greater caution. Ohconfucius (talk) 08:14, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
• Thanks for your timely warning. I shall be more careful from now on, still you have to keep an eye on my stuff, because (1) sometimes I got carried away (2) very little experience.

I notice that "Special Center" is up now, congratulation to you.I still like to focus on Fonterra's various press releases, because I foresee a media and legal war among Sanlu-Fonterra-Sanyuan, and Fonterra China"s 3000 cow farm. All these will come under spotlight in the coming weeks.Please let me know what you think.Arilang1234 (talk) 08:39, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

• I didn't see how it fits in, and so I moved it all to Fonterra. I will keep an eye on that article, and will put stuff back if it is relevant. Ohconfucius (talk) 08:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
• Thanks again. It is just my feeling that things will get bigger and uglier soon, since you have multi-national and WHO, EU, FDA, it is getting too big for Sanlu.Arilang1234 (talk) 09:45, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
• I suggest change the level of melamine from mg/kg into ppm, which is a standard science term. mg/kg, or g/kg can be confusing.Arilang1234 (talk) 21:29, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
• On Caijing, boxun, and epochtimes there are many chinese original blogs which carry lots of valuable info; I have quote Caijing once. What about boxun and epochtimes?Arilang1234 (talk) 12:20, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

• Blogs should in general not be cited as they do not pass as reliable sources, except when the blogger is a well-respected individual commentator on a topic in his field. Caijing is very authoritative and respectable, and can be used, but its main problem is that its not in English. It carries a lot of exclusive stuff, which makes citing it essential especially for thinks of economic relevance - for example, I cited it extensively in Wahaha. Because of its affiliation, and how it reports, I would consider The Epoch Times an extremist source - as it is hell-bent on destroying the CCP, and has written much stuff which cannot be substantiated, so I would only use it very very sparingly. Usually, I would only cite it for quotes about what Falun Gong says. I have just read the WP article on Boxun, and it would appear to fall into the same category as epochtimes, so go easy when citing it. Ohconfucius (talk) 13:11, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for all your help.Since most of the Chinese departments( Health, Quality control,Special Supply Center, Agriculture, etc) are all under the State Council control,may be in future Response-Chinese Government can be changed into Response-State Council ? After all the rest of the Chinese Government has got nothing to do with this issue.Arilang1234 (talk) 13:51, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
• Just one little thing I read somewhere about Boxun(got nothing to do with WP), is that it is a popular news source for mainland communist officials. But then it is just a rumors.Arilang1234 (talk) 13:59, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

• The government monitors extensively all kinds of internet sites which are not censored. These will naturally include bulletin boards and dissidents' sites, but the existence of that monitoring does not make sources reliable. Ohconfucius (talk) 14:09, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
• Just think you might be interested in this article I just read:Wikipedia's Jimmy Wales meets China's censors by Rebecca MacKinnon, Hong Kong U's lecturer.

http://rconversation.blogs.com/rconversation/2008/10/jimmy-wales-mee.html Arilang1234 (talk) 14:58, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

• I would like to put this up, please let me know what you think. I think the original is in German, I would try looking for the English version.

另一个话题也开始逐渐浮出水面，那就是地方政府和企业的隐瞒拖延，以及对于媒体报道的钳制。德国之声记者采访了中国资深媒体人李大同。

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3683080,00.html Arilang1234 (talk) 21:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

• I agree with you on NZ Green MP, they are the big stirrer. I have move it onto Fonterra's page, I think is more appropriate.Arilang1234 (talk) 06:58, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

• The dysfunction of AQSIQ is a major factor in both the beginning and propagation of this melamine milk crisis, such as the three years inspection free period. Once company been granted this prestigious status, all the quality controls at all the levels(and there are many levels) are not allowed to do any quality checks at all.This system(among others) is one of the major cause of these wide spread practice of adding melamine into milk powder. AQSIQ should be held responsible for all these sick infants(and adults). All those national brand can be bought with money. I have also read many reports about tainted products being sold at half price in poorer area, where a lot of poor people had no access to news.Arilang1234 (talk) 12:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

• That is scandalous, but nothing about Chinese ethics (sic) surprises me any more. If you have a source for that, we can put it in. It would fit in with bandurski allegations that people are inadequately informed about the recalls. Ohconfucius (talk) 15:24, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

• Quote from Response from Top Leaders:"China's dairy production and distribution order have been chaotic, and supervision has been gravely absent."[219] So the State Council for the first time put the blame on AQSIQ, because they did not do the "supervision" job properly.Arilang1234 (talk) 14:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

• I like how the top leaders are blaming everyone but themselves. They tell the country to bury bad news during the olympics, and then says Shijiazhuang was responsible for covering things up when it was done to follow their orders in the first place. Now they still censor media to protect the party, harming the people as a consequence. No wonder Chinese people are revolting. Ohconfucius (talk) 15:24, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

• How about give a section to State Council, and put AQSIQ, Ministry of Health, Ministry of Agriculture, all under one title, because they are all under the State Council. This crisis(or disaster) will only get bigger and bigger, once international lawyers come to the game, all hell will break loose and all fingers will point towards State Council. To start with Fonterra will not simply go away.Arilang1234 (talk) 20:13, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

• I think this one is relevant :.Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao then stated on TV he was "deeply moved" by Mr Mandelson's brave act of "drink the yoghurt", and personally appreciates "his faith in Chinese dairy products".Arilang1234 (talk) 15:08, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

• Relevant, maybe, but I still tend to believe it is trivial. Ohconfucius (talk) 15:24, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
• http://cmp.hku.hk/2008/10/11/1257/

I put it at "Other third parties", may be not the correct section? You have a look when you got time.Arilang1234 (talk) 21:55, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

http://www.einnews.com/china/newsfeed-china-wto

Quote:11 Oct 2008 10:51 GMT ... China has used a World Trade Organization (WTO) meeting to criticize countries that have banned Chinese milk. Chinese officials said on Thursday that milk powder and other dairy products were "accidentally" Unquoted. Arilang1234 says: einnews.com is asking for money before anyone can read its news.Arilang1234 (talk) 15:56, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

• I am currently working on this page:http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yuan_Weishi&action=submit

Could you have a look when you got time and help me out a bit?Arilang1234 (talk) 23:19, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

• Hi, for a while I didn't visit this page, just drop by and say hello to you. Recently I spend a lot of time editing Qing and Qianlong. Could you come to Qing talk page and have a look? The work there is getting too big for me, if you can drop by, will be a good thing.
  • I like to point it out to you about a CCTV 'Lecture room' 我为什么掌掴阎贼崇年 .I put some links here for you to have a look.
• http://opinion.people.com.cn/GB/8174455.html）
• http://www.hanminzu.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp?boardID=171&ID=234794&page=1
• http://www.hanminzu.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp?boardID=171&ID=235536&page=1
  

May be you could create an article based on this incidence, may be it might developed into something big.Arilang1234 (talk) 14:21, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Say OK

You requested a redirect for Say OK in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Say OK. An editor has since built a new version of the article in userspace, in hopes of being able to restore the article. Can you look at User:Kikkokalabud/Sandbox/Say OK and see if your objections have been satisfied? Please discuss at the sandbox talk page, User talk:Kikkokalabud/Sandbox/Say OK.Kww (talk) 13:23, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Comments re: 2008 Chinese milk scandal

You replaced two referenced sentences with your own unreferenced sentence. You are the one doing the POV vandalism. ZhaoHong (talk) 03:42, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I urge you to check the source remaining. FYI, it says "Meanwhile, a New Zealand company that is one of the world's biggest exporters of the hugely expensive dairy protein lactoferrin has suspended exports in order to clarify how it was contaminated by melamine.... Ohconfucius (talk) 03:45, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

That is no excuse to remove two clearly sourced sentences which quotes the Cadbury Eclair testing and subsequent recall as well as the 50 other items which are currebntly undergoing testing. i don't know if your an agent working for the Chinese government but the removal under the pretext of "rem sentence which doesn't say anything concrete" is absoultely untrue and bizarre. Both news items have clearly stated the recall. ZhaoHong (talk) 03:50, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

• Your insinuation that I am a Chinese spy is considered a personal attack, and was totally uncalled for. You fired the first shot by calling me a vandal, and this certainly isn't helping. I would remind you to please be cool, and assume good faith. Ohconfucius (talk) 03:54, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I said "agent" not "spy". Governments everywhere have plenty of agencies. ZhaoHong (talk) 04:15, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

• It was an insinuation nonetheless, so I would urge you to please be civil Ohconfucius (talk) 04:28, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

The removal of much of the referenced information in the article in the last few days is to me suspicious to say the least. ZhaoHong (talk) 04:42, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

• Many experienced editors on WP do just that. Just because something is sourced, does not mean it is worthy of inclusion, because it may not be relevant, or may be giving something undue emphasis. Much of the material was inserted by User:Arilang1234, and we have been working closely together to ensure that the information is as relevant and focussed as possible to the subject at hand. Please refer to the ongoing discussion taking place above on the matter. Ohconfucius (talk) 04:48, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

• "undergoing testing" is exactly that, it does not mean or imply that they are contaminated. Every country everywhere is conducting tests. So, let's only put it results which are concrete and definitive. Ohconfucius (talk) 04:02, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

"As revelations emerged that Australian food regulators were testing 50 Chinese milk-based products for melamine, Cadbury Asia Pacific announced it had begun a recall of all 180-gram bags of Cadbury Eclairs". [7]. The sentence in the article clearly said that. ZhaoHong (talk) 04:05, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

• So what? Testing is testing. They withdrew Eclairs in several markets, so Cadbury recalls are already mentioned in the section Foreign operations in China. There is no need to mention every single product, as WP is not a directory. Ohconfucius (talk) 04:10, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

There was no need to delete the referenced the claim that they were conducting tests on 50 items as well as the statement on milk products in Australia and New Zealand. They are facts and easily proven. ZhaoHong (talk) 04:14, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

• As I already said above, "undergoing testing" does not mean or imply that they are contaminated. Every country everywhere is conducting tests. I consider deletion to be warranted in order to keep the article in sharp focus. I think, however, that we could mention globally somewhere in the article that many countries were doing tests, but specific mentions like the one you are so opposed to deleting would just clutter up the article, if allowed to accumulate. Ohconfucius (talk) 04:20, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

You're acting like you own the article, and given the above comments by another editor on the 3Rs I'm not the only one who has observed it. I disagree with your assessment. If it's important enough to be reported in the main news in Australia, then it's important for an addition in this article. You regard the complaint from one customer as being important but not that 50 other items are being tested? Your reasoning is questionable. ZhaoHong (talk) 04:28, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

• Not, I do not own the article, but that does not mean that someone should not exercise some overall editorial control. Cleanups are necessary to focus articles, and can take place continuously, or on an ad hoc basis. I happen to have been doing it as events unfold, that's all. You are free to disagree with me, but you have been getting waaay too personal. Your assertion that if something's important enough to be reported in the main news in Australia, then it's important for an addition in this article is fallacious, for WP is not the news. As to the 'one customer', we are talking about a very specialised product, and there are probably not many customers out there. If it's not OK for Chinese food products to have melamine, then why should NZ be any different? Of course, I believe it is relevant, but feel free to delete it if you disagree, I won't revert you. Ohconfucius (talk) 04:36, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Okay I agree with you on the New Zealand information and have removed that country from the final sentence. It's still uncertain where the melamine came from in their product. ZhaoHong (talk) 02:23, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

date edits for TV episodes

Hi,

I noticed your date edits for TV episodes, such as this one. It would be good if in future, such edits made use of {{start date}}, which will then make the episode template emit a valid hCalendar microformat. May I ask which script you sued, and whether you are in a position to make it do that? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 18:06, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I have now made the edit you requested to that article manually. The script I use was written by User_talk:Lightmouse. It seems to me this is destined to remain a manual thing because of the nature of the information unless this data is already tagged in some way. However, I am not a programmer. Ohconfucius (talk) 00:55, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, but I was referring to the first air-date for each episode. I'll take up the more general matter with Lightmouse. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 13:25, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

GA Review on Ao Man-long

Hey, I'll be reviewing the article Ao Man-long that you nominated for GA status. If you have any questions or comments please ask, or visit the review page. --Banime (talk) 19:03, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I put the article on hold for now, please see my concerns at Talk:Ao_Man-long/GA1. Thanks. --Banime (talk) 19:58, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I added some additional things to fix in the review page. --Banime (talk) 18:05, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations! The article has been passed. Check the review page for some more tips on what you can do to improve it even further. --Banime (talk) 14:26, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks, Ohconfucius (talk) 03:26, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Political Appointments System in Hong Kong

Oh, Confucius...I was having a look at the above article to see if I wanted to review it (it having been waiting for a while now), and I saw a merge tag at the top of it. I raised this issue here to solicit the views of other editors, and it appears that an active merge proposal is grounds to quick fail a GA nominee on the basis of stability. I was just getting read to do so when I had a look at the merge proposal and noticed that there hasn't actually been any discussion on the subject for more than two months. Normally, then, I'd just remove the tag and get on with the review, but I noticed that you were the one proposing the merger. Do you still believe they should be merged, or would you rather they be left as separate articles? Sarcasticidealist (talk) 01:44, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

• I still believe that this topic is but an extension of the Principal Officials Accountability System, but I have some issues with th POAS article which I have not yet addressed, so I will pull the merge tag for now. Ohconfucius (talk) 01:55, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Date Assisted Delinking

Please be more cautious while you're using the script assisted date delinking. In several articles you have hit, such as List of Blood+ episodes and List of Rurouni Kenshin episodes, you incorrectly delinked to change the format from mdy to dmy. As per the MoS, for articles not tied to a specific country, the existing date format should be retained, and as such both of those lists should have been delinked to mdy. Please consider going back and undoing your edits to the many anime episode lists where this error was made. I will also be going back to fix the lists as time permits. Thanks. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 13:19, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

• I note your comments. I have not found any consistent date format within the body of the articles, and between articles within the category. It made no sense to have articles in different date format with each other. So as the subject matter is Japanese and not American, I opted for international date format. I guess I got it wrong, and would apologise. Ohconfucius (talk) 14:27, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

No prob. Primarily most of them do use mdy, but per project consensus, since Japan doesn't use one over the other, we've stuck with "first in use" per the Date MoS guidance on the issue, and requiring consistency between articles within a series (so if main uses mdy, all subarticles should as well). -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 15:37, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi OC. At your edit it might have been better to change [[1922]] to [[1922 in aviation|1922]]. Thanks, LeadSongDog (talk) 14:20, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

• Didn't realise such an article existed! Ohconfucius (talk) 15:10, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

2008 Chinese milk scandal/Official test failures

Wondering if you could explain how much different between "Manufacturer" and "Export&Import Company" term due to the fact that almost of those products (or their material)were imported from China and some other countries.Thanks118.68.184.1 (talk) 03:54, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

• I have tried to make uniform the use of 'Manufacturer' throughout the article because the problem lay with manufacturers selling contaminated milk or using contaminated milk in their product. However, some of the products have transformed milk powder, or seem to have imported, repackaged and marketed contaminated powder under a different name for the producer, and there are few clues as to who the actual manufacturer is. The rebranding itself would make the brand-name company the de facto manufacturer. I thought that the importer's name being of lesser relevance, although you are correct we should perhaps point out the source country (although it can arguably be traced back to China). Ohconfucius (talk) 04:03, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

So that will help the consumers a lot, right? Because they can recognize the stuff immediately. Thanks for all.118.68.184.1 (talk) 04:10, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I like the way you writing. Is English your native lang?118.68.184.1 (talk) 04:32, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

• Thank you. Yes, I am bilingual English/Chinese. Ohconfucius (talk) 04:35, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I have updated new 4 melamine contamination products into the article section - 2008 Chinese milk scandal/Official test failures#Test conducted by Institute of Hygiene and Public Health, Ho Chi Minh City.58.186.53.34 (talk) 09:58, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I was going to put those in, but couldn't find a source for those test results. Ohconfucius (talk) 10:00, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

4 products:

Gold Nutritionals master gaine

(Pokka Melon Milk) 240ml

(Pokka Cappuccino Coffee) 240ml

(Milk Coffee Europe) 240ml

Source:

Ho Chi Minh Deparrment of Health http://www.medinet.hochiminhcity.gov.vn/tintuc/news_detail.asp?period_id=1&cat_id=333&news_id=5859#content

Tuoi Tre Newspaper http://www.tuoitre.com.vn/Tianyon/Index.aspx?ArticleID=283421&ChannelID=3

58.186.53.34 (talk) 10:19, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

• I read about Pokka in the news, but no figures were supplied. Ohconfucius (talk) 14:53, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

• I did some search on Google and found some of them with "Pokka Melon Milk melamine" keyword, hoping it would help

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/7886897

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/health/news/article_1437305.php/Vietnam_finds_four_more_melamine_tainted_products_

http://www.nowpublic.com/health/recalled-melamine-milk-products-list-ongoing

You can use the feature "Find (Ctrl+F)" in your browser with the "Pokka" keyword.58.186.53.34 (talk) 12:51, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Concerns and controversies over the 2008 Summer Olympics (2)

I have responded to your comments at my talk page. Thanks, —Politizer^{( talk • contribs )} 06:46, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for cleaning up the refs in the Liu Xiang section. I have been trying to add {{cite}} templates where I can, but there are so many un-formatted refs in there that it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel! —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 02:41, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

you're welcome. Forgive me for not putting it the access dates. I think they are a waste of time, and anyway, I hate the way they link to date/year articles. I know this forced linking is a template problem and not an article problem, but I'm still inclined to leave them out for the dubious benefits these dates provide in the vast majority of cases. Ohconfucius (talk) 03:01, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Date formatting

One of your recent edits to H2O: Just Add Water (diff) changed the date formatting from DMY to MDY; please be careful about this in the future, as Australian articles use DMY formatting. Cheers! — Huntster (t • @ • c) 09:33, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I put it back. My apologies. Ohconfucius (talk) 09:35, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

List of shopping malls in Malaysia

This article, List of shopping malls in Malaysia, has been re-listed for deletion. Please feel free to comment as you were engaged in the original deletion debate. Thanks, JBsupreme (talk) 02:50, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Talk:Suppression of Falun Gong/Working Pro-FG

Talk:Suppression of Falun Gong/Working Pro-FG, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Talk:Suppression of Falun Gong/Working Pro-FG and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Talk:Suppression of Falun Gong/Working Pro-FG during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Philosopher ^{Let us reason together.} 22:08, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Lists of ship launches

Your recent edits to the various lists of ship launches have cause some dates to display on one line and some dates to display on two lines, where they previously all displayed on one line. You need to insert a non breaking space in the first September entry with two digits to make them all display correctly. Mjroots (talk) 10:22, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

• Or perhaps we can widen the first column somehow so that the line does not eject? I'll look into it. Ohconfucius (talk) 10:24, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Highlander: The Series (season 1)

Hello, there. I am contacting you because of this edit. I am the main contributor on that list and I would like to have the former title back, because I think it suits the article better. It really is more an article on the season now rather than just a list of episodes. I did not change the titles of all the season articles because I wanted to rewrite them first, but it's a slow process and I admit maybe I chose the wrong method; in this case I could move all the seasons at the same time, as it suits you. Please let me know what you think. If you do not oppose, I would like to move the article back tomorrow. Have a nice day, Rosenknospe (talk) 12:22, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

• Actually, I moved it to achieve consistency across the series, without realising that it was to signify work in progress. I have no view which title should prevail once the work to render the content consistent is complete. I have put the article back. Feel free to move it as and when you are ready. Apologies for the inconvenience caused. Ohconfucius (talk) 15:03, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

No problem :D It's my fault too, I'm really slow on that one; but real life gets in the way way too often. Thank you for your understanding, and have a nice day. Rosenknospe (talk) 20:54, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

"presecution" vs "banned"

Hi, could you check out here [8]. There is a dispute over the wording "persecution" vs "banned" over a section on Falun Gong. It's likely to end in an edit war and can you help out a bit? Thanks--PCPP (talk) 04:37, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

• I stopped editing the Falun Gong articles for a reason. This is not a subject I wish to have any dealings at close quarters with any more. Thanks for your understanding. Ohconfucius (talk) 01:33, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Category:Twins (band) members et al.

There is an established precedent that categorizing band members by the band they're in is acceptable. I'm not sure if it's needed for duos, but any group with three or more members can certainly have its members categorized by the band (for example, Gary LeVox, Jay DeMarcus and Joe Don Rooney are all categorized as Category:Rascal Flatts members, even though the band's membership seems quite well established as just those three guys). See Category:Musicians by band for many more of these. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 22:15, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for the heads up - I wasn't aware of that. Well, I think categorisation has a tendency to go too far, especially when we are talking about fans and groupies. Two members of a band in a category? It's just going overboard! I could kill the person who started this nonsense. ;-) Ohconfucius (talk) 01:55, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

fair use rationale for song lyrics

Fair Use Law 17 U.S.C. 107 (1988 & Supp. IV 1993). Section 107 provides in part:

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, ... for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.

Nancy Kissel murder case

Hi Ohconfucius

I was surprised to see Nancy Kissel murder case split from Nancy Kissel, as it is almost unimaginable that anyone would be interested in the main article other than in connection with the murder. How does this split serve readers?

Rgds

Bongomatic 00:32, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

• I made significant contributions to the Nancy Kissel article. When her case came up for appeal, I pondered long and hard over the question of whether the person herself was notable, or whether it was the case. I decided to test out my hypothesis that she was just a case of WP:BLP1E. If you feel that she is only known for the murder - and I think you are right, BTW - please feel free to nominate it for deletion, or merge whatever content you feels worth merging and redirect. Ohconfucius (talk) 01:26, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Edits

Hi,the person with the IP 71.200.54.6 continues to undo our edits on the Will Kirby page. Doesn't this constitute Vandalism? I am new at this and understand they can be reported but am not sure of the process. Blue-morpho1 (talk) 23:11, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

• Just looking at those edits alone, I thought the editor crossed the line, albeit a pretty fine line. On its own, it's not big enough a problem to demand page protection - one editor several times a day. However, it seems that the editor has been engaged in potentially conflict of interest editing elsewhere. I have lodged a complaint at the BLP noticeboard. Ohconfucius (talk) 02:31, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Selina Chow

Then you need to remove lots of people who have category "People from X" but were not born in X. In fact, "people from X" is equivalent to "native from X" in Chinese, not just the people who were born in X. For example, I was born in New York, USA with family roots in Guangdong, China. I am American (American Chinese) and Guangdong people. Ricky@36 (talk) 12:15, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• Yes, I know there are a lot of them. I have removed quite a few on my travels. Thanks for your understanding. Ohconfucius (talk) 13:46, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• You may create a tag for category:Hongkongers native in Panyu for those removed.Ricky@36 (talk) 11:04, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Criteria for speedy deletion

The CSD you placed on Vanessa Shih was declined because the article contains the assertion that the person is notable. Anyway, I'm sure we agree that a government spokesperson from the Republic of China is notable, yes? WhisperToMe (talk) 17:37, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I don't agree that a govt spokesman is notable by default. True, though, that it may be borderline speediable as it was. A minister is different, but there was nothing in the original reference which said that. I'm sorry about that, but we get too many frivolous articles created by people who have seen so and so once on TV. Ohconfucius (talk) 01:52, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Kirby and Pierzina

The've both been semi-protected for a week. I'm guessing the user came back as HairyHannah after the IP got a 24 hour block. Hannah's been permanently blocked, but I'm going to keep an eye on the pages regardless, in the event an alternative name is used or IP edits resume after the protection expires. This user has intentionally or not gotten new address from the ISP in the past, so the vandalism may resume. Thanks. BaldPete (talk) 18:46, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

• I threw the whole arsenal at the problem. I have no doubt the attacks will resume. We'll play it by ear once the protection expires. Ohconfucius (talk) 01:41, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Miscellanea

Due to health reasons, I have not been able to fulfill all of my regular duties. I apologize for my delays in corresponding with you. I've gone ahead and provided my input on the renaming of 2008 attack at Beijing Drum Tower during Olympics, and hopefully we can collaborate to finish Concerns and controversies over the 2008 Summer Olympics in the near future. Take care.   — C M B J   23:23, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Take care of what is of prime importance first. Get well soon. Ohconfucius (talk) 00:22, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

More whining about you and me

You should enjoy this: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#More_questionable_behavior_from_WT:MOSNUM Greg L (talk) 05:23, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Isn't it fun going around taking sides? Ohconfucius (talk) 13:50, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Script

Hi,

The script does not, in itself, constitute a bot. It is how it is used. Have you considered setting up email? Lightmouse (talk) 11:03, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• I thought I put an email address, didn't realise I had to activate it. It should work now. Ohconfucius (talk) 12:26, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Rick Ross

Hi Ohconfucius, re this edit, I got hold of a pdf of the judgement a couple of days ago and can mail you a copy if you like; perhaps I'll upload it to Commons. Cheers, Jayen466 11:48, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

The document is here; it's worth reading through it. Cheers, Jayen466 12:13, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• I couldn't download it for the life of me. Could you maybe post the url? Thanks, Ohconfucius (talk) 13:30, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Date delinker and List of cities containing film studios

Can you explain why Date delinker removed the links to some of the cities in List of cities containing film studios but not all? Can you explain why it's removing links to cities at all? Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 05:30, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

• The writer of the script decided, and I happen to agree with him, that continents, the G8 and some other countries need no introduction, and more often than not do little to enhance the understanding of the article when so linked. Some of the larger or better known cities are also delinked by the script by the same rationale. Hope that answers your question. Ohconfucius (talk) 12:44, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Not really. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 21:11, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Care to elaborate? Ohconfucius (talk) 01:56, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Linking some cities and not linking others doesn't make any sense, to me. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 02:01, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
        • Actually, I see your point. I have reverted the change, but have delinked Japan while I was there. Ohconfucius (talk) 02:11, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

love the name

And I see you're well-established. Tony (talk) 13:59, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

• I wonder if that counts as making a point? ;-) Ohconfucius (talk) 01:55, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Warning regarding unlinking of dates

As this practice (and the actual manual of style guideline) are currently in dispute, you should probably back off of unlinking dates until the dispute is resolved. Prior ArbCom cases have looked unfavorably on editors who attempt to force through disputed changes on a massive scale as you (and other editors) are doing. Specifically, Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Episodes_and_characters_2/Proposed_decision#Fait_accompli, which I quote:

Editors who are collectively or individually making large numbers of similar edits, and are apprised that those edits are controversial or disputed, are expected to attempt to resolve the dispute through discussion. It is inappropriate to use repetition or volume in order to present opponents with a fait accompli or to exhaust their ability to contest the change. This applies to many editors making a few edits each, as well as a few editors making many edits.

— Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Episodes_and_characters_2/Proposed_decision#Fait_accompli

Continuing this behavior could be considered disruption. Please stop and instead participate in the ongoing discussions at WT:MOSNUM and elsewhere. —Locke Cole • t • c 05:05, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Will someone please stop this fellow. Linking allows us to find others with the same bday with ease. This is unhelpful.--Epeefleche (talk) 23:05, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Typo in Date delinker output

Hi. Just noticed this change to the SS Great Western page, in which month numbers have been replaced with names. The replacement for July has used a small 'j' -- you will need to check the bot's recent edits and correct these.

Regards -- EdJogg (talk) 16:29, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

It wasn't the script. I ran the script and did that bit manually, and I apologise for not pressing down the shift key hard enough. ;-) Ohconfucius (talk) 01:49, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Phew! Not a very big problem then. You will exuse me reporting the issue though. I always check bot edits on dates and so on -- while they are probably good for 99% or even 99.9% of edits, even 0.1% repesents are fair number of introduced errors, and however well the bot is programmed, human nature will always introduce some unusual date or number format that the bot doesn't recognise.

Cheers -- EdJogg (talk) 09:43, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

August 1, 2003

I was stunned to see the discussion on this closed as "no consensus, default to keep", since very few people suggested an outright keep, and most would have been satisfied with a merge. I honestly don't think the closing administrator paid attention to any of the comments. Regardless of how you felt on this issue-- delete, merge, keep -- I think that everyone's comments showed that a lot of people care about this issue, and "no consensus" in this case is the equivalent of "shut up". I've asked for a review, and invite everyone to give their two cents worth at [9]. Best wishes. Mandsford (talk) 23:49, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Big Brother pages

Hannah's back, using the IP address that got the temporary block last week. BaldPete (talk) 21:29, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Tennis expert

I've started a thread on TE's date reverting at WP:AN#Special:Contributions/Tennis expert. Please comment if you can.--Kotniski (talk) 11:05, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Can you clean up more of the pages starting from here? I have to step out for a bit, but it's been started... Thanks seicer | talk | contribs 15:25, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

• TE declared on 20 November 2008 that he would be retiring from WP. As he has been reverting all my edits on sight, has been far from pleasant to deal with, and what's more he slandered me and a whole load of others that I couldn't resist posting him this farewell message, which he swiftly deleted.

Copied from talk page of Tennis expert

Happy retirement (sic). I am genuinely sorry to see you go. You are so easily wound up - you will be sorely missed as I have one less person to bait, and I did so without even realising. Just like your behaviour on WP:MOSNUM and elsewhere, you and are acting like you own WP, not just the tennis articles. Anyone not agreeing with your narrow, parochial stance is acting against consensus. As it can be clearly seen from your diatribe above, you are one great drama queen. You blame everybody but yourself - BTW, is that a chip I see on your shoulder? God spede, Princess! I have little doubt you'll be back again before three months have elapsed. I hope you grow up in the meantime, and leave your tantrums at home before you even think about coming back.

— Ohconfucius (talk) 06:49, 20 November 2008 (UTC)