La mome

Hello, La mome, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• Tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions.

Sorry, I've been trying to welcome everyone who joins the IB debate here. It's not my job or anything but when I arrived they posted me the above text and I thought it was good, so why not pass it on? Anyway, better late than never?

Do you have a different username elsewhere? You're entitled to as much anonymity as you want of course, but I don't think the cloak-and-dagger stuff helps.

Best wishes

Ewen (talk) 21:36, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi Ewen, Thanks for the warm welcome. I am new to wiki and not very experienced with this type of forum in general, so I appreciate any advice you can give me. Do not hesitate to correct me if I make an faux pas or breaches of wiki etiquette. There seems to be a lot more rules here than other sites, but it also helps to keep the discourse civil. I will check out the tutorials.La mome (talk) 21:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

The warm welcome is a standard text so I can't take credit for it!

There are many rules, but mostly if people are basically civil then there's no need to refer to rulings. The rules are useful for deciding if anyone's crossed the line but most people don't go anywhere near the boundaries of behaviour.

Good advice is be bold!

Oh, and discussions work better if they're on one page so I've added this page to my 'watch' list and I'll be alerted to any responses you post here.

Ewen (talk) 06:03, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure the wikiquette complaint is the best way to go, but it's up to you. If you have a history with Lisa on other forums then it might be worth mentioning up front. If such a thing came out during the discussion it would not only raise its own conflict of interest issues, but trying to hide this fact would obviously be bad faith on your part.

As I've said to Lisa in the past - it's the facts which matter, not who says them.

Ewen (talk) 20:56, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi La Mome. Just to let you know I'm getting on with editing and only commenting on ObersverNYs must outrageous comments. As you will have noticed, ObserverNY seems very erratic, refuses to even reply to points where they are clearly wrong (certainly in denial that they ever make a mistake), seem to lack basic civilities in the talk page, inexperienced as an editor (and certainly broke several Wiki ettiquette although they are now starting to absorb some information - if only to use it Tu Quoque) and seems to assume that a person is either with them or against them. The sad thing is that ObserverNY makes some good edits but seems to think that bullying, red herring and abusive statements in talk is acceptable. I'm just going with edits now. I don't think ObserverNY is worth responding to until they get civil and ethical (certainly ONY often uses ad hominem attacks). I suggest you ignore them too and just respond on a civil basis to appropriate edit comments (not that you have done otherwise). Regards, --Candy (talk) 13:27, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Citing works

I was just curious why you thought we couldn't cite an IB publication in an IB related article? After all, the IB web site is a publication isn't it and that has been liberally cited! --Candy (talk) 05:08, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi La Mome. I can see where your thinking comes from and it makes a lot of sense. However, I have legal access to the documents. I don't distribute the documents illegally (that is I respect the copyright) but I am using information in the documents to verify information I add to Wikipedia.

I'm trying to think of another of another example.

I am a member of a genealogical forum and research site called ancestry.com. You can only get access by subscription. The materials specifically made for the website are copyright. I'm certain I would break the copyright if I freely distributed them without permission. However, I wouldn't break copyright if I discussed the content on a blog or in chat. I would also be able to quote some short extracts ad verbatim (which may need to be improved on the Diploma Site as I haven't done that clearly). I assume this is the same thing for the OCC and see no reason why not.

I suspect that the reason that the OCC is password protected is not only to prevent the free distribution of intellectual property but that there are numerous private forums, vodcasts as well as exemplars of marked work and chat rooms. Any professional organisation needs a space where they can work privately for improving their working practices. It would also be most inappropriate to refer to any of these areas as they would be extemely difficult for anyone to verify and would be extremely difficult to put into context or be certain of the authority (especially in forums for example). I believe the guides are a different issue as there are tens of thousands of individuals who could verify the contents independently. Besides, the printed documents are are not password protected.

I also know that there are copies available (either mistakenly or deliberately) online which violate copyright. Linking to these would be inappropriate also (as you were hinting at) at least to my mind as it is encouraging the illegal access of copyrighted material.

All I have done as a long-term editor of WP is to work as I have done on dozens of sites, learned from my peers, read the guidelines and try to act in good faith and in a manner that I feel is reasonable. This doesn't make my actions correct nor my advice but I do feel that I am likely to be working in a decent and fair way within the copyright rules.

Thanks for your timely response. --Candy (talk) 12:36, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

IB Diploma Programme

I personally would rather stay out of it, but you could go to an admin to help make sure things are dealt with neutrally. Good luck and happy editing. :) -WarthogDemon 02:53, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

IB Subject Group articles

D'oh! Thanks for the correction! Regards, CinchBug | Talk 01:47, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

La mome, I'm going through the intro paragraphs on each of the Subject Group pages and editing them so that they provide generally the same kind of information and so they're consistent with the info in the "Subject Group and coursework" section on the IBDP page. I've already done Groups 3, 4, 5, and 6. Do you mind if I go ahead and do this on the Group 2 page? I don't want to overwrite your edits or anything. Regards, CinchBug | Talk 20:53, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

La mome, I finally got around to editing/standardizing the Group 2 intro today. I tried to keep it brief, since the big details can be fleshed out in the other sections. Let me know what you think. Regards, CinchBug | Talk 17:06, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Group 2

Hi, La mome! Any thoughts about how to proceed with improvements to Group 2?

Just wanted to check in with you and see if you're doing okay. Haven't heard much from you recently. Regards, CinchBug | Talk 01:51, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Replied to your note from yesterday on my Talk page. Regards, CinchBug | Talk 14:08, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Your sandbox

You accidentally created your sandbox in the mainspace. When creating subpages, don't forget to add the "user:" prefix before your username. I have moved your sandbox to user:La mome/Sandbox. Best, Javért | ^Talk 12:13, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Cheatsheet

Replied here Truthkeeper88 (talk) 01:49, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Oversight

How did you contact oversight? I've only had to talk to them once before, and they did respond (to an email). I'd be happy to email them on your behalf if necessary, but give me some background on how you contacted them first.

Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 15:38, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Could you use the "email this user" function to send me an email (or enable email in your "my preferences" tab)? I want to confirm the edits before I contact oversight (I'll reply to your email with the diffs). Alternatively, if you know exactly how many there are could you say "aye" or "nay" to this: I've got four edits so far to be oversighted - are there more??

Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 16:38, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

• Update - no news! I've not heard anything back from oversight; have you seen anything (edits mysteriously disappearing)? FWIW, last time they took a couple of days to get back to me, but I think we're well beyond a mere couple of days... Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 10:49, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

I haven't heard anything either. They never replied to my emails, nor here. I have checked the page histories to see if anything disappeared. I'll look now. Thanks again for your help and for following up. Maybe they are not addressing it due to [WP:NODRAMA]?

Cheers La mome (talk) 11:52, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

oops--I have NOT checked the histories. La mome (talk) 11:53, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Mary Hayden quotation

The ref is formatted. Simply copy paste the formatted ref I added in at the end of the quotation between the ref tags. I can do it if you'd like. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 15:05, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Harlan Hanson

Lol, La Mome! I thought that it would be a nice feather in your cap, as a lot of the experienced, long-term editors list the pages they've created on their Userpages. But, that's okay, I understand! ;) Great idea, though! He's far more deserving of a page here than a lot of people who already have their own articles, that's for sure. Regards, • CinchBug • 01:20, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

No problem--I am not looking for feathers, believe me! Plus, as a chick(en), I've got enough already =] La mome (talk) 01:24, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

The fact that you're not looking for them is why you should get one. Like I said, he's a very interesting guy and he did a lot for education during his life, especially his 25 years running AP. So it's to your credit that you suggested he have his own article. ;) All right, I'm signing off for the evening. See you tomorrow! • CinchBug • 02:29, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

The IB articles

Hi La mome,

Just so you know, I don't think I'll have much opportunity to be on-line today. As for the schools during the experimental stage in the IB DP article, I want to pull up the sources and re-read, but at this point I agree it's best to leave them out until we know what's what. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 13:32, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi La mome! I'm trying to sort out the history of the experimental stage and which schools participated. Do you have a page number for Peterson's book -- have been scrolling back & forth and can't find the actual list of schools, but I've most likely scrolled by it. Thanks. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 16:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Ignore above. Found it. Page 27. Thanks. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 16:41, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

What's next?

I'm thinking I'll try to stay from IB if possible. But, the history section is still incomplete. It'd be worthwhile identifying how the IB grew after the exploratory period, into the seventies. Presumably some of that information is better on the main IB page, rather than the IB DP page. I'm currently busy with another article, but will be checking in. I do think the archiving has been very successful, don't you? Truthkeeper88 (talk)

Yes, I think the archiving is working, but I don't think it saves the edit history, just the actual threads. Not sure if that's a problem. I am kind of at an impasse with the IB history. I have the Peterson, Hayden, Fox, Hill etc... sources and some back issues of the the Journal of International Education. I also have the Conley book (College Knowledge) and the study just released on knowledge, skills and college readiness for students in the IBDP. I'll see what I can put together. Thanks again for all of your help/advice. La mome (talk) 18:04, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I checked the history going back until July. It's all there! If you put something together, I'll help if you need it. Also, I'll get back to reading the Peterson book fairly soon. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:30, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

List of International Baccalaureate people

Do you think the list of people we've been adding for the history section that are referenced in Uncle G's sources should be added to the page called List of International Baccalaureate people? That's an easy and noncontroversial task. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 01:05, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Given that the lists of IB schools are up for deletion, I am wondering if it is even worth it to maintain the IB people list? La mome (talk) 00:51, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Also wondering if "Dictator" is an official title in this day and age?La mome (talk) 00:52, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

IB History

Hi La Mome! I've rewritten the IB history section (again) based on ONY's comment about the discrepancy, which was valid. Rereading the sources it appears that Leach organised the 1962 conference for which he also wrote course materials; secured funding from Unesco; ISES was founded in 64/65 which was renamed the IB Council in late 67 and Goormaghtigh became pres. in 68. I've put the current version here in my IB sandbox to preserve. It may have been changed in the article by the time you get this message. I've used both Peterson and Fox as sources, and as you've also read those two books, I'd appreciate another set of eyes to check my work for inaccuracies. Thanks. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 17:15, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi again! To simplify matters, I've deleted your Peterson ref with the page number (too long to explain why...). However, we do need to reformat all the refs with page numbers, so do you have the page number for the Mayer info in the preface? Truthkeeper88 (talk) 01:04, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Style RFC?

Do you still want to go ahead with Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Style issues? If not, maybe remove it from the RFC list? - Pointillist (talk) 23:44, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I think it is safe to remove from the RfC list. La mome (talk) 00:16, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Truce

La mome, please see the discussion at my Talk page. Thanks, • CinchBug • 21:15, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Outing and COI

I've opened a thread at Talk:IB Diploma Programme#Issues of outing and COI to remind people about civility and bringing personal things into the discussion. — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 15:52, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again for your input, advice, assistance, etc... I truly appreciate it.

La mome (talk) 17:45, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Response

Hi La Mome. I don't feel ONY has got a leg to stand on as far I am concerned by accusing me like that. It's just a distraction from the editing. I'm just ignoring it. If other editors feel that it is true they will say so to me. Regards --Candy (talk) 19:11, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

IB Diploma Programme

Hi La Mome,

Could you please visit my talk page, read and comment on my recent section about the IB Diploma Programme.

Many thanks, --Candy (talk) 21:32, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

On leaving

I understand the urge to leave and won't try to talk you out of it. But, consider a wikibreak instead. As for the heaving lifting, I believe Helloannyong was referring to adding content, which indeed is heavy lifting. I've filled out the history section and brought it into the 1980s. Peterson's book only shows the first 68 pages on google, so I'm done with that. I think the only thing I'd want to expand is the information about the experimental period and perhaps the examination pass rates during those years and how they mirror the pass rates of the present.

Anyway, thanks for the help in that section. I hope you continue to peek in and see how things are doing.

Also, I forgot to answer your question about how to find other articles to work on. I go to "community portal" under the search bar, then on the top right click the "help out" link which takes you to "fix up projects" and then click the "articles needing copy edit" link. That brings you to the list of thousands of articles to be copyedited. I browse the list and chose something that interests me and work on it, usually on my own! Take care, and check in occasionally. Cheers. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 20:46, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I'll be taking a Wikibreak as they call it. Looks like ONY will be banned/blocked sooner than later, since s/he continues the same pattern of behavior on other pages. When I have some more time and am convinced that I can edit without being verbally abused, then I'll come back to working on the IB series (group 2 still needs work also) and I'll look into other articles that might be of interest, as well as translations. Thanks again for your help and advice. La mome (talk) 01:29, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

In ONY's ban aftermath

I owe you an apology for suggesting you were part of the problem. It's clear that anyone who tries to work with her for any period of time is frustrated again and again. She's an impossible case, stubborn and cynical. I see what Jimbo Wales meant about toxic personalities- half the reports on ANI are about flaming, harrassment, personal attacks, assumptions of bad faith and general incivility. It makes me sick.

Anyway, sorry for my initial stance on the issue. ONY's indef blocked now, hope we can all get some peace. A little insignificant ^{talk to me!} _(please!) 14:15, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

IB article

Thanks for adding the section to your sandbox. You beat me to it. Let's disengage and leave as is for now. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:06, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing

I started some clean-out on the IB Diploma article because we left it a mess. Of course, arguing over each sentence and word, does not help build a good article. I see the reversions have begun already which is unfortunate. I'd planned to have the article reviewed, not another edit war. Anyway, if you have time, maybe just keep an eye out. Also, any new information about the Diploma programme is always helpful. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 23:17, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations!

You are a co-writer of a good article! Who thought this would pass so quickly?

Here's an infobox to display on your page. If you ever drop in again, leave me a message. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 20:09, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

This user helped promote IB Diploma Programme to good article status.

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:03, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:04, 24 November 2015 (UTC)