Hibiscus192255

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Happy editing! —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 09:28, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

September 2023

Hello, Hibiscus192255. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on the page Kalki Bhagwan, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:

• avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization, clients, or competitors;
• propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the {{edit COI}} template);
• disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest § How to disclose a COI);
• avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam § External link spamming);
• do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 09:34, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi @TechnoSquirrel69

I am not compensated in any capacity for the changes I made. I am doing this on my own time and of my own accord.

As a matter of fact I have not made a single change but I have questioned bad sourcing and bias which I believe I and every Wikipedia user has a right to do.

Kalki Bhagavan does not fall under any of the categories for me

“yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization, clients, or competitors”

I am not promoting any product or person, I don’t see a single reference to that.

I have however made numerous arguments which I believe are objectively valid and at all times I am civil. I would like a response to them.

Thanks Hibiscus192255 (talk) 00:31, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Do you have any connection at all with the subject? Lard Almighty (talk) 04:55, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

What do you mean by connection here exactly?

Let me tell proactively in any case as that is what the Coi guidelines recommend. I don’t believe this qualifies as a conflict of interest but here it is.

I don’t worship or work for or belong to Kalki Bhagavan’s organization.

There is a connection however obviously and that’s why I spent time on this. My Mom does believe in his teachings for the last 12 years. For the record my Dad and I don’t and are neutral and don’t join her.

my Mom was pained by the words in the Wikipedia article last to last Saturday and asked me to see if I can help as she believed it was not factual. I have been an avid user of Wikipedia for my education in Mathematics and Computer Science. I told her I would look into it but can’t do much if it was factual and she would have to deal with it. She said fine and I read it . However what I found was it had heavy bias and hence raised my issues.

About arguments : I have however taken part in several debates and written papers and believe I see bad sourcing and bias when I see it. I believe the entire page and the talk page is loaded with both.

Here are my basic requests, and they are very minimal and rooted in my understanding of Indian Law. I don’t want any facts to be suppressed and I don’t want anything to be sugar coated. I don’t care if the subject is convicted by an Indian court or any other legal authority. I will assume that the verdict is correct. But the fact is that hasn’t happened.

All I want are these:

1) Extend the subject as much respect as Osama Bin Laden or Hitler, even if you believe there are wrong doings ( which is not necessarily the case though, see next point). All claims of wrong doing are far less severe than the people I quoted as far as most legal systems of the world are concerned. I have given specific examples of how to show said respect. Also they are not guilty yet / perhaps at all because :

2) in Indian Law, any person is assumed innocent until proven guilty for all crimes except for section 498a of the iPC (Indian Penal Code) where it is about mistreatment of a woman by their in laws. The subject has not been found guilty on any of the counts and it is not 498a so he must be assumed to be innocent. This is Indian law. Allegations are reasonable to be reported - but do see next point also.

3) please check the sources and don’t allow opinion pieces or irrelevant articles or broken links or gossip pages. There are a lot of them and I have tried to provide a list on both the talk page and BLP notice board, but there are also Legit news reports and papers which should be quoted and any allegations are fair to be reported. But what I ask is if a source already mentions that the supreme Court dismissed a case, add it to the relevant section (reference 92)

4) order of most Wiki pages on a person start with facts about the person and then the criticisms. Please follow that here too.

5) don’t give undue weight age to critics. Please note that in many cases the claims have been dismissed by courts of the land (ref 92 again)

6) finally what is most disturbing is the talk page of the subject. I went in there expecting an analysis of the subject. What I found was name calling like “narcissistic Charlatan” and guilt assuming without evidence in a lot of places. That’s just bad legal reasoning, bias and bad manners:).

That’s it . If they are found to be guilty of any crimes, report it please. You have a right and duty to and I would applaud you for it.

But for now all I want is answers to my questions and to tell my Mom I did my best to ensure that the article is factual and civil. I don’t care if the result is favorable or unfavorable to the subject.

I am grateful to Wikipedia for a lot of technical content which has proven invaluable in my education - especially Mathematical proofs and Computer Science. I want to see the same standards of proof here too. Hibiscus192255 (talk) 01:57, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

About your messages to NatGertler

As an aside from the discussion we've been having at Talk:Kalki Bhagawan, I wanted to advise you not to keep pinging NatGertler. As mentioned on his user page, he's mostly retreated from editing on Wikipedia, and has an account mostly to wrap up a few things. In any case, it's considered poor etiquette to continually ping users when they've already responded to your messages, or have obviously decided not to respond. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 17:14, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks @TechnoSquirrel69. Did Nat mention that? If so I will apologize to him. In any case, I will not ping him any further as he responded to me today morning that he doesn't have the time. I am grateful for the time he already spent on this. Hibiscus192255 (talk) 18:33, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

No, Nat didn't contact me; it was just my personal recommendation. I just saw the discussion on his talk page, and agree that Wikipedia:Third opinion could be a good option if you want another editor to come and take a look at the content dispute. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 18:37, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Ok sounds good and thanks to you too @TechnoSquirrel69 for your responses throughout. Hibiscus192255 (talk) 18:44, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

NP! Thanks for maintaining a civil and collegial debate even though we have diametrically opposed views. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 18:47, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

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