CriticallyThinking

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December 2021

Hello, I'm Wallyfromdilbert. I noticed that you recently removed content from Tom & Jerry (2021 film) without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 04:21, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Please do not add original research or novel syntheses of published material to articles as you apparently did to Sonic the Hedgehog (film). Please cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. Thank you. – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 05:01, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Please stop your disruptive editing.

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If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, as you did at Sonic the Hedgehog (film), you may be blocked from editing. Stop inserting original research and your personal interpretations. You need to use the article's talk page if your proposed changes have been reverted. – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 06:45, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi CriticallyThinking! I noticed that you recently marked an edit as minor at Scoob! that may not have been. "Minor edit" has a very specific definition on Wikipedia – it refers only to superficial edits that could never be the subject of a dispute, such as typo corrections or reverting obvious vandalism. Any edit that changes the meaning of an article is not a minor edit, even if it only concerns a single word. Please see Help:Minor edit for more information. This is not a minor edit and is also not even supported by the cited source. – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 05:41, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

February 2022

Your recent editing history at Space Jam: A New Legacy shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

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Sonic the Hedgehog film

@CriticallyThinking: According to the source in the article lead, the statement "criticized its screenplay" already covers the "lack of ambition" criticism. It's the same thing. Articles are supposed to have a neutral tone. Contributor19 (talk) 23:21, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

References

Please remember to fill out your references when you add them. Bare URLs are frowned upon. You'll find that under "Cite" there is a subheading that provides templates that even autofill when pressing the magnifying glass once the URL is input.--CreecregofLife (talk) 15:48, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

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January 2024

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February 2024

Hello, I'm Escape Orbit. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, Tom & Jerry (2021 film), but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at referencing for beginners. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 11:52, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

April 2024

Please do not add or change content, as you did at Tom and Jerry: The Movie, without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. Waxworker (talk) 05:43, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

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Tom & Jerry

Stop trying to edit the article without references or credible sources I know you love it but Wikipedia is supposed to be objective VeryFirst (talk) 14:47, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

The article says that the film became a success on Netflix with audiences who re-appraised the film. You've reverted it without reading it. CriticallyThinking (talk) 15:48, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

At least try to compromise, you can keep the produciton stuff you added but stop trying to make like the film is now better received, beign in the top 10 in Netflix doesn't mean that much in the grand scheme of things VeryFirst (talk) 15:38, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

May 2024

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 1 week for edit warring. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  ~ ToBeFree (talk) 15:00, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi CriticallyThinking! I noticed that you have reverted to restore your preferred version of The Looney Tunes Show several times. The impulse to undo an edit you disagree with is understandable, but I wanted to make sure you're aware that the edit warring policy disallows repeated reversions even if they are justifiable.

All editors are expected to discuss content disputes on article talk pages to try to reach consensus. If you are unable to agree at Talk:The Looney Tunes Show, please use one of the dispute resolution options to seek input from others. Using this approach instead of reverting can help you avoid getting drawn into an edit war. Thank you. Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 02:36, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Warning: Edit warring on The Looney Tunes Show

Please stop attacking other editors, as you did on The Looney Tunes Show. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people.

Please do not add commentary, your own point of view, or your own personal analysis to Wikipedia articles, as you did to The Looney Tunes Show. Doing so violates Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy and breaches the formal tone expected in an encyclopedia.

If you continue to exacerbate this, I will be filing a report to Wikipedia administrators.

Ciscocat (talk) 00:45, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

It's not my point of view. Like I said, if you can't be bothered to read sources, the joke and issue is on you. Critics hated the series for how it felt like a generic sitcom that never stayed true to the Looney Tunes and what made them unique. It's been this way, when it released. CriticallyThinking (talk) 02:29, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Given your edit history, it's clear you have an axe to grind against the series (for full transparency, I haven't seen any of its episodes) and it's disingenuous to act like you're just bringing more sources in. Harryhenry1 (talk) 02:36, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

When the show first released, it was ewually as hated as Teen Titans Go! was. The first reviews of the show that were published were also courtesy of ToonZone, who all hated it for its lack of ambition and departures from the source material. Its reviews were mixed. CriticallyThinking (talk) 02:40, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

How can it be as equally hated as Teen Titans Go!, yet also just get mixed reviews? Harryhenry1 (talk) 02:42, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

This is your only warning; if you make personal attacks on others again, as you did at The Looney Tunes Show, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Ciscocat (talk) 12:01, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Ciscocat (talk) 22:08, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

There is another form of warning on Wikipedia regarding the combination of sources to come to a conclusion that is not explicitly stated, which you have done a few times before. And for what it’s worth, I have no dog in the fight of whether the show is good or not. I have no problem with including negative reviews. But please do not project your own biases as accusations towards myself. Ciscocat (talk) 04:42, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

The reviews, as cited by the sources, criticized the show for lacking in the source material's spirit and creativity with sitcom-izing the characters. It is not a personal bias. Your edit-warring is the reason why you got banned from editing other pages, like the T&J one. Give it up. CriticallyThinking (talk) 13:12, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Ciscocat hasn't been banned from editing those other pages, and it's clear from your edit history that a personal bias against the show is a major factor in your edits. Harryhenry1 (talk) 13:36, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

It was a stupid edit war, but for the record, I was abiding by the sources. Under visual effects and animation, I was attempting to embed quotes from citations, which is a pretty safe bet, that you felt the need to pull out and hastily paper over for some reason. You seemed very hung up over the specific choice of wording as some form of misinformation, which is much bigger than what it actually was. Tell me, why was it such a problem to embed quotes directly from the source? I genuinely want to know. Ciscocat (talk) 13:36, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

I highly advise you to read the sources again, because yes, the "2D+" direction T&J took innovated and was a first-ever attempt at duplicating 2D animation by a CGI workflow who can do it in less than half the time than a 2D workflow. Also quoted by Tim Story himself. Much like how you ignore the reasons why critics hated TLTS, as proven with your petty edit warring and throwing a fit when it doesn't go your way. CriticallyThinking (talk) 13:47, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

“First-ever attempt at duplicating 2D animation by a CGI workflow” is a very broad phrase and in that case, no it wasn’t the first-ever. Maybe that specific method, but that’s beside the point. This is an example of you taking a lot of liberties with sources and treating quotes that aren’t necessarily statistical as such. Also, again, I took actual quotes from the interview and kept the paraphrasing minimal/neutral on that occasion. I fail to see how that wasn’t reading the sources. Ciscocat (talk) 14:10, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

It was the first attempt at completely duplicating 2D animation with CGI software, and it introduced many aoftware tools to help get the part. The production behind the film, even the animators, said that the demands were high and unlike anything a VFX team was used to. Because CGI is infamous for its realism and creative limitations, in spite of how less time-consuming it is. The sources said it. CriticallyThinking (talk) 14:12, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Make sure you’re quoting or attributing this to certain interviewees, then. This is beside the point, though. Evidently from the edit logs, I’m certainly not the first person to make edits you disagree with, and unlike most recently when the article was locked to all users, you have an actual one week block from editing the page earlier this year, as seen on this very page. Ciscocat (talk) 14:18, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

You were called out by an admin for "not helping" at all. You certainly weren't helping and caused the page to be blocked for vandalism (all from you), and still aren't today. Tim Story himself described "2D+ animation", introduced with T&J, as a CGI animation workflow who can replicate 2D animation for less time than a traditional animation workflow would take via drawing every cel. The Looney Tunes Show, also cited by the sources, was infamously criticized for its "generic" writing and direction that never embraces the uniqueness of the Looney Tunes. Like I said, the sources say everything. Putting in your personal bias and ego doesn't re-write history. CriticallyThinking (talk) 14:23, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

What personal bias do you think he has? He admits that he doesn't care about the show at all.

I've also read the sources you gave, and nowhere do they use the terms innovative when describing the animation in the T&J movie, and it seems to be an assumption you've made. Harryhenry1 (talk) 14:48, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

The sources described it's "hyperkinetic" and is completely different than VFX animators did prior. Tim Story coined it as "2D+" animation, where it bypasses the creative limitations of CGI but took advantage of its quick time to animate and introduced multiple software techniques to get the part and entirely replicate 2D animation with it. Even a generated tool for the outlines was introduced here, alongside a sketchviz phase where 2D artists guided the 3D animators with expressions over a rough edit. Read the sources, once again. CriticallyThinking (talk) 14:54, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

You can't just extrapolate terms like "innovative" from the sources like that, it's veering into original research - it seems to come from your own personal bias towards the film. Harryhenry1 (talk) 15:10, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Yet the production team, animators, and director Tim Story himself say otherwise. The animation and production demands were high and differed than any other CGI project, and it completely invented "2D+ animation" which is 2D animation replicated by a CG workflow. It's not a personal bias. It's just a fact. "Coyote vs. ACME" is the only other film to have followed this route, and chances are, we might not ever see it again as projects might even soon revert back to traditional 2D animation. CriticallyThinking (talk) 15:17, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Where in the sources did they use the term "innovative"? Again, you can't just use terms like that which aren't reflected in the sources used. Harryhenry1 (talk) 15:22, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

The sources called it "hyperkinetic", which means completely innovative and different than the usual. The animation director said it was different than anything he and any VFX animator are used to. Interviews with the animators called the process "daunting" to replicate 2D animation under CG's creative limitations and introduced many software tools to get the part. Director Tim Story also confirmed that 2D sketchviz artists were added to the workflow to even guide the animators during many rough edits to draw-over poses and expressions of the characters. A sketchviz phase was never done to add to an animation team. "2D+" animation was innovated here, and was described by Story as 2D animation but if it was duplicated by a VFX team. Read the sources. CriticallyThinking (talk) 15:25, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

"Hyperkinetic" means something that's energetic, which is a good way to describe animation for cartoony characters. But that's not the same thing as calling it innovative.

The animators calling the process daunting is how many would describe their time on any film productions, which isn't to take away from what they did. Every new project has its own challenges, including for this film, and that's commendable. But again, you're reading too much into how they word things. Harryhenry1 (talk) 15:30, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

a "hyperkinetic clash of styles" means beyond the usual. Your bias does not re-write history nor change the fact that it completely bypassed CG's creative limitations and replicated 2D animation with first-ever software and a direction that no VFX animator prior did nor were used to. It innovated and brought it to the next level. https://www.framestore.com/work/tom-jerry CriticallyThinking (talk) 15:36, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Again, it's clearly describing the energetic nature of the animation. And where's this idea that they were the first to ever do this? It would've likely been the first for the team involved personally, but the first production ever to do so? Harryhenry1 (talk) 15:40, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

The animation director, who comes from a CGI workflow, said that the demands for the production and animation were high and differed from anything a VFX workflow did prior. Hence the "2D+ animation" in the film, in which even countless software tools that the CGI team considered pivotal to duplicate the look and feel of classic 2D was first created here. https://www.animationmagazine.net/features/frenemies-in-the-big-city-tom-and-jerry-director-tim-story-team-discuss-the-new-hybrid-pic/ CriticallyThinking (talk) 15:54, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

That's nice to hear, but again it's not the same as calling the production truly innovative, or the first of its kind. As Ciscocat, this was not the first CG film to try and duplicate the look of 2D, and also not the first to develop new tools for such a process. You're extrapolating a lot from a little here, and seem unable to admit your own bias for this film. Harryhenry1 (talk) 17:04, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

You clearly didn't read the post, again. It invented newly developed software considered pivotal by a CGI workflow to replicate 2D animation. It has never been done before and was only done again in Coyote vs. ACME. Stop being stuck on your ego and accept that re-writing history doesn't change anything and doesn't change your history of vandalism to be biased. CriticallyThinking (talk) 17:12, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

You’re not making any sense lol. You’re taking adjectives that are meant to be positive descriptors and taking them as fact. If you’re unable to parse the difference, then that places a lot of doubt on our ability to take your editing decisions in good faith. Ciscocat (talk) 17:21, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm not saying it's awful if it didn't innovate. But the production behind the film, cited with sources, claimed that the demands were high and unlike anything else a CG workflow did. It created new software techniques and pushed the limit to break the rules and traditions of CGI entirely. It innovated and bypassed the realism and creative limitations of CG to create an exact replica of classic 2D while taking less time to animate than traditional cel animation. No project did it prior, and nothing else might be done like it again aside from Coyote vs. ACME. Stop throwing a fit because a movie you didn't like managed to be unique. CriticallyThinking (talk) 17:26, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

You’re repeating yourself, and also clearly showing a bias towards the movie and indicating it has interfered with properly editing the article. This doesn’t really make a case in your favour. For what I hope is the last time, nobody is editing the article to skew it away from neutrality. We’re trying to make sure it’s properly sourced and reliable, and that you seem to be hung up on the way it’s worded tells me that’s your modus operandi and the very thing you seem to think we are trying to do. Ciscocat (talk) 17:39, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Name a single CGI project before T&J with software for hand-drawn animation techniques to create an exact replica of 2D animation, even with help from a 2D sketchviz team guiding the animators to help break the rules of CG completely. Your bias towards the movie is literally the reason you got blocked from editing pages and that it was protected from vandalism. An admin called you out for it. It's just a fact. Move on and stop throwing a fit because the film actually pushed boundaries in a production when demands were confirmed to be incredibly high and different than anything a CGI team did prior. CriticallyThinking (talk) 17:42, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

You're still putting words in Ciscocat's mouth, accusing him of bias while being biased yourself. Why else are you trying to push such a positive view of the film? Harryhenry1 (talk) 17:47, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

There has never been a single CGI project that attempted to create an exact replica of 2D animation, as confirmed by the production team who literally come from a CG background. It's innovative and especially considered daunting for a CGI workflow, since 2D has far more creative freedom. Like I said, I'm not biased. Don't take my word for it. Throwing a fit won't re-write history. Innovation is when something new is invented and introduced. "2D+ animation", coined by the creative team, is something unheard of and completely different to what CG animators are used to. And no, it isn't merely cel-shading either. CriticallyThinking (talk) 17:53, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

“2D plus” was an unofficial term that the director came up with. What I glean from the article(s) is that it’s 3D animated models directed to look like 2D through rendering and animatics and some minor new software was developed to achieve that effect. And as previously stated there are plenty of high-profile examples of a similar process so this isn’t majorly different. Ciscocat (talk) 18:06, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Exactly. As the cited sources claim, the director called this direction as if 2D animation was replicated by a CGI workflow. CGI takes less time to animate than 2D, but also has less creative freedom, and the team created many software tools to help them break the traditions of CGI, from the stiffness to lifeless realism, and completely clone 2D animation with it. The look and feel in every shot. It'd be better to give up before admins once again will call you and Cameron out for vandalizing out of pure personal bias and throw a fit. CriticallyThinking (talk) 18:11, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Do you actually think the admins are gonna take your side on this? God almighty. Ciscocat (talk) 18:15, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

You’re treating this as a pissing contest over the film, which is not why I’m here. I’m here to punch up the article. Also, “draw-overs” are not new to 3D animation at all; see this interview with Brad Bird where he talks about drawing over 3D-animated scenes on a whiteboard for guidance. And of course plenty of CG animation has varying degrees of homage to 2D (Paperman, Feast, SpiderVerse, Peanuts Movie, Mitchells vs the Machines). But again that’s beside the point. You get really heated when we try to rein in the bias of the article and imply it’s anything less than what you think it is. When a crew is talking up their own project there’s a difference between opinion and fact. Ciscocat (talk) 18:02, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

speak for yourself. The admins protected the page out of your vandalism from pure bias alone rather than actually reading sources. You constantly argue and throw a fit just for the sake of being a contrarian rather than because you fail to accept the fact that something new and innovative happened behind production. It's just a fact. Move along CriticallyThinking (talk) 18:22, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Defending a sitcom that critics even hated upon release for its lack of creativity and faithfulness to the Looney Tunes doesn't help. At least with T&J, I know the reception was negative and am not making it look like it was positively received from bias. You have an obsession over me for little reason, even when I cite sources and info from research. Seek therapy. CriticallyThinking (talk) 18:26, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Can you please cool it with the personal attacks? MiasmaEternal☎ 23:14, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

You’re not even citing quotes from the Animation Magazine article properly. And somehow I’m damaging the wiki page? Ciscocat (talk) 22:20, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

You outright removed countless cited information that backed up the production team's actual intent. Your quote unquote "contributions" are what caused admins to protect the page from vandalism to the point where you got called out for it yet again, a few days ago.

Admit it. The only reason you're doing this is literally because you are outright obsessive over me, for whatever reason. Even after I cut ties with you directly.

I beg you to seek therapy. And please cite actual information that doesn't appease your own ego and personal bias. CriticallyThinking (talk) 23:09, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

I am not the one lashing out at other users for editing that page. I’m not the one running around the Internet trying to defend a children’s film. Ciscocat (talk) 23:17, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

You wouldn't bother stalking me and editing a page to appease your own personal bias, if you were.

Your actions completely contradict your own words. CriticallyThinking (talk) 23:52, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

You never take any responsibility for your own actions. You can only throw accusations of bias back at me and put words in my mouth, you have a history of plagiarism and lied about leaving Letterboxd on purpose after getting banned. You belittle others’ intelligence constantly and yet are only ever at war with everyone. Why? At what cost? Why do you conduct yourself like this online? Ciscocat (talk) 01:17, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

I constantly cite sources with accurate information relating to it, and yes, I left Letterboxd on purpose and have already readied a review website where I already have a whole bunch of review documents planned.

Why do you conduct yourself like this online, then? Why are you so obsessed chasing after someone and stalking someone even after being told that I wanted nothing to do with you? You're merely throwing a fit when things don't go your way. But hey, if I'm the "plagiarist", at least I can actually elaborate my points of view based on my own personal experience. Please seek therapy. CriticallyThinking (talk) 01:21, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

FYI, you were called out by admins twice by now, and you might as well consider getting banned on here for vandalism and only want things to go your way.

Just face history and re-writing it won't change anything. Find something better to do than to stalk people on the internet, even after deliberately cutting ties with an egotistical jerk. At this point, I can assume you're either a bot or a troll. CriticallyThinking (talk) 01:22, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Is this because I like the Sonic movies? Ciscocat (talk) 01:25, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

No. It's because you're a manchild who never takes any responsibility for his actions and only wants things to go his way, as shown by your behavior on this site alone. Do yourself a favour, read a book, and find something healthy that doesn't depend on soending months stalking the same person on every social media site. It's not doing any favours on your reputation, and the more you keep this up, you're more than likely to be banned on this platform. As you were on many other sites, like Twitter for the millionth time. CriticallyThinking (talk) 01:30, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Fair. Ciscocat (talk) 01:31, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Also, for someone so obsessed with editing the T&J page to suit his own personal bias and randomly brings the Sonic films into this conversation, at least T&J cared about faithfully portraying the characters, had good-effort and engaging animation and visuals, and actually fun and whimsical worldbuilding over Fish Out of Water real-world digestible corporate slop. CriticallyThinking (talk) 01:32, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

But what if I like the Sonic movies? Ciscocat (talk) 01:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Also it sounds like you’re being a little bit biased right now. Ciscocat (talk) 01:39, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Again, can you cut out the personal attacks? This is unhealthy not just for you (in terms of the effect that anger and stress has on your body), but for Wikipedia's spirit of collaboration. MiasmaEternal☎ 05:01, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

I’m ready to move on from it at this point. I can only try to make the best edits I can. If that means someone lashing out at me then I just have to disengage. Ciscocat (talk) 19:06, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

The first sentence sounds a little bit like you’re projecting. Let me ask you, with all that has gone down, do you think your own reputation is in good standing? Ciscocat (talk) 21:18, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

It's all in the sources, bud. You can't re-write history to fit your own bias. The more obsessive you are of chasing after me, the more I suggest you seek help. CriticallyThinking (talk) 00:14, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

I’m talking about all the bridges you’ve burnt, the insults you’ve slung, the people you have harassed to defend a kids movie. You know what you’ve done, but you don’t care. And frankly neither do I anymore because there’s no saving you. You strike me as bitter and sad, and I don’t know what else I could get out of this other than to strive not to act the way that you have. Adieu. Ciscocat (talk) 01:34, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

You're the one who started vandalizing countless pages, made constant posts harassing and stalking me (even after wanting nothing to do with you), and to this day, still won't leave me alone because my "personal bias" apparently reads a production history spoken by creative members themselves. Please. A better way to redeem yourself would be to grow a pair and actually read books before vandalizing pages solely because you're obsessed with me, because at least I'm not acting like I'm some perfectionist. CriticallyThinking (talk) 01:44, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

I guess I was right, you are really bitter. You can’t actually address anything I’ve brought up. If you didn’t mistreat a long line of other users, maybe I wouldn’t have commented. But you were right about one thing, I do have better things to do than interact with you. You’re so repetitive in your vitriol that the last thing I would want is to turn out the same. So, good day. Ciscocat (talk) 01:56, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

In other words, I'm bitter for calling you out on your actions. As did other admins on this site called you out for. Find something better to do then spending months on the internet stalking someone who never wanted anything to do with you. Get off your high horse and admit that you're proven wrong. Actions speak louder than words, as does vandalism to boost your ego would compared to a simple paragraph comment. CriticallyThinking (talk) 01:59, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Cheer up. Ciscocat (talk) 02:03, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

I was actually cheerful without the presence of an egotistical jerk like you around. Now quit replying to the same person who literally DMed you a message with regards to not wanting anything to do with you. And here you are still obsessively stalking me. CriticallyThinking (talk) 02:05, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

I don’t know about that. You seem to get really mad at other people who are apparently biased too. And kids shows. You really hate kids shows. Ciscocat (talk) 02:08, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Enough of this. I explained in detail why the wording you keep insisting on is objective poor, yet you don't listen. To anyone. There has been no substantial change to the article content in years, because the show ended years ago, and there's been no new critical assessments of note. There's no need for your edits at all. So WP:DROPTHESTICK already. You've been blocked for edit warring before. You should have learned from that experience. oknazevad (talk) 14:14, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Your reasoning was because of how lengthy it was, so therefore, I simplified it to the criticisms that were most relevant to the sources. Thank you and have a good day. CriticallyThinking (talk) 14:19, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Are you seriously gonna accuse everyone who tries to retain a neutral point of view on the TLTS show article as having personal bias (including someone who admits to not even liking the show)? While writing that the Tom & Jerry movie was “claimed to be a world-first adoption in animation” without a source? Sounds like every accusation is a confession with you. Ciscocat (talk) 14:49, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

The source on AnimationMagazine.org said that the draw-over phase was a new addition and that it innovated countless software techniques pivotal for a CGI workflow to clone a traditional approach. The team said it's approach was different to any CGI project. It's Not my fault that you can't handle history. CriticallyThinking (talk) 14:52, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

It’s not that I can’t handle “history,” it’s that you can’t just write phrases like “world-first adoption in animation” without at least attributing it to references. That falls way out of the neutral point of view. It’s nothing to do with the actual sources and everything to do with how they’re embedded and worded within the article. Similarly, a word like “unfaithfulness” isn’t as neutral as “differences” and shouldn’t be used as a catch-all term for the critical consensus. If one critic in particular said it was unfaithful then that could be paraphrased or directly quoted in the passage mentioning their review. Again I have no real opinion on this show. It has been established that you do though, and you’re only leading your arguments with “stop trying to make it look better/sugarcoat it.” Ciscocat (talk) 15:02, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

It was claimed as a worst-first adoption by an animation director who largely derives from a CGI background, as one of its many software techniques to clone classic 2D. And yes, the critics hated how it didn't stay true to the Looney Tunes either. Now find something better to do than cyber-stalking the same person who never wanted anything to do with you. CriticallyThinking (talk) 15:10, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

A “worst-first adoption,” eh? Typo aside, did he actually say, in the article, “world-first adoption?” Ciscocat (talk) 15:14, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

No one's denying critics had negative views towards the show, again even someone who didn't like the series either thought your edits were going too far. Harryhenry1 (talk) 15:19, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

I’ve already posted on Wikipedia’s administrator board under incidents about this, should we file another report? Ciscocat (talk) 15:36, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Also if you’re gonna argue, do it in one of the talk pages, not the edit logs. Ciscocat (talk) 15:04, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Everyone is a biased enjoyer of The Looney Tunes Show, apparently. Ciscocat (talk) 20:43, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Hotel Transylvania

I swear to god, do not start editing the Hotel Transylvania page to start putting words in peoples’ mouths. I can only surmise you did that once I brought the film up, because you realized I had some sort of point about Tom & Jerry not being the trendsetter you believe it to be. I genuinely could not believe you did that. And it may have been a very minor edit, but it tells me you want to essentially play God on Wikipedia and squish anything that might make your points moot. Ciscocat (talk) 04:46, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

If you claim to do research as much as you seemingly do, Genndy Tartakovsky's goal with the animation was to "push reality", meaning to give a sense of exaggeratedness inspired by 2D animation with the realism of CGI. But I'm not surprised you reverted a cited edit like a coward, since you're obsessively doing this since you joined this site. CriticallyThinking (talk) 04:50, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Yeah I'm sorry, but your edit to Hotel Transylvania was clearly done to try and prove your own love of the Tom and Jerry movie for being supposedly so innovative. There's enjoying a movie, and then there's loving a movie so much you're trying to revise history in this way. Harryhenry1 (talk) 04:52, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Both movies followed completely different directions. Hotel Transylvania pushed CGI animation, in a way Madagascar did YEARS ago, to blend the traditions and reality of CGI with a sense of cartooniness that would remind you of 2D animation and inspired by it. Tom & Jerry, meanwhile, was a completely duplication of the 2D style and traditions required to animate it. Even if I hated a project, I wouldn't go as far as to vandalize articles from words out of my mouth rather than what productions say. CriticallyThinking (talk) 04:59, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

So why did you change the wording on the Hotel Transylvania article? What needed "correcting" here? Harryhenry1 (talk) 05:02, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I recognize that Hotel Transylvania is more traditionally detailed 3D animation inspired by 2D, while Tom & Jerry is going for the simplicity of 2D animation as far as character models and some of the movement. My comparison is more to do with things that you have represented as new methods on the latter film’s article, such as the whole draw-over thing. And there are a number of other films that have used similar methods for other aspects of that film’s animation. At best, it’s a combination of things that were previously established. Ciscocat (talk) 05:04, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Every frame behind the detail in T&J's character model and movements were a complete replication of how 2D animation was hand-crafted and animated, hence why they further even added a team of 2D artists to even sketch-over character poses and expressions over a rough edit when the CGI still wasn't as close to the 2D look and feel of the characters. It was, in essense, computer-generated hand-drawn animation achieved in half the time a 2D look and feel is achieved by drawing every frame. Hotel Transylvania, and I should mention even films like Madagascar, blended stylization inspired by 2D with realism of CGI. CriticallyThinking (talk) 05:10, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

No. It is virtually impossible for this 3D animated film to be “a complete replication of how 2D animation was hand-crafted and animated,” and that tells me you’re unable to actually lecture me on this. Where did they say they were “drawing every frame?” This is something you have made up, and tells me your position is weak. And again, the sketching over was done on Hotel Transylvania and even that article mentions it was done on Tangled. This is an increasingly common technique in big budget animation and not unique to T&J. Ciscocat (talk) 05:16, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

It's "impossible" to you, bu not to the team behind it. Every visual 2D detail from the rendering and outlines, to every motion 2D detail from even in-betweening and motion lines, have been seamlessly incorporated into the animation by many software techniques introduced and were considered pivotal to the CGI team to capture and replicate classic 2D.

It was computer-animated 2D, which replicates 2D in so much less time than how long a traditional workflow would achieve it when drawing every cel. That was the direction introduced and pioneered there with T&J, and the sketchviz phase, like I said, was a new kind of pre-vis done by the artists to guide the animators in help making the CGI model even accurate to the look AND feel of 2D animation, rather than merely being inspired by it. T&J and Coyote vs. ACME were the only films to have added "sketchviz", to clone classic 2D. The rigs in said films even included motion lines and in-betweening sourced directly from 2D animation. Those were absent in HT, which, as said, was an inspiration by 2D than a replication of it.

Their directions were completely different than each other. Read the sources once again. CriticallyThinking (talk) 05:24, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

You are going in circles and not actually explaining anything I don’t already know. You’re explaining all this stuff to me, but I’ve done research and I fail to see how any of this is innovative or unique to T&J. The drawing over isn’t especially new. Even in the realm of pre-viz, many films have done rough sketches for CGI characters so I don’t know why you think that’s new; it just tells me you’re unaware and only have eyes for this movie. I’m sorry, I wish I saw what you see in it, but you come off as overly enthusiastic about the film in a way that has clearly damaged your ability to remain neutral on it. Ciscocat (talk) 05:29, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Cool it with the insults, that only tells me your confidence in your points is crumbling. I would not say hanging onto a single phrase is remarkably astute research (and you might as well have cited that), but it was clearly done in haste to try and dispel the vague notion that your favourite film (let’s face it, it is) was anything less than innovative. I’m honestly a little horrified that you went and did that. It also doesn’t change the fact that the methods you have leveraged in favour of T&J, such as draw-over and unconventional rigging, were used in HT and a number of other high-profile projects beforehand. And the film’s crew saying it was unlike anything they had done before does not mean it was never done before, because they do not speak for every animation and visual effects department in the world. I don’t know why you’re riding so much on trying to protect this film’s reputation in arbitrary ways, but it’s an incredibly shallow goal and it’s led to increasingly destructive behaviour on your end. Ciscocat (talk) 05:00, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Hotel Transylvania did not have a draw-over "sketchviz" phase and literal in-between rigging. All it merely did was make CGI animation more extreme with its poses, more inspired by 2D rather than a replication of 2D, which is something Sony Imageworks even carried over into films like "Storks". Read the sources again. CriticallyThinking (talk) 05:03, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Did you miss the part in the article where it says the director drew over the 3D animators’ work as feedback? Which is the same as the Animation Magazine article said about T&J where the draw-over was also feedback to make it resemble 2D? Also, define to me what “in-between rigging” is because I do not recall that from the AM article. You’re probably mistaking it for breaking the rigs to exaggerate, which again was done in HT. There is a lot of overlap between the two articles/production techniques, in fact. Given that you had to run over to HT’s article and add a random unnecessary edit, I surmise that you feel there’s a hole in your reasoning and expect that you may try to expand these twisted words across that and multiple other articles, but this will only make a case for us that you are vandalizing Wikipedia. Your emotionally fuelled responses such as calling me a “coward” do not help your argument either, and are ironic considering that you felt the need to go mess with another film’s production section when I brought it up. Ciscocat (talk) 05:12, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

That isn't the draw-over phase the T&J crew were talking about. It was a new kind of pre-vis done by the artists to guide the animators in help making the CGI model even accurate to the look AND feel of 2D animation, rather than merely being inspired by it. T&J and Coyote vs. ACME were the only films to have added "sketchviz", to clone classic 2D. The rigs in said films even included motion lines and in-betweening sourced directly from 2D animation. Those were absent in HT, which, as said, was an inspiration by 2D than a replication of it. Their directions were different. CriticallyThinking (talk) 05:16, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

From the T&J Animation Magazine scripture article:

“‘We changed our workflow to include a 2D draw-over phase to enable us to refine and better sculpt shapes we were not able to fully achieve in the animation process.’”

Which I strongly infer means sculpting the 3D models during the animation of those models.

Just for direct comparison:

“And similar to Glen Keane on Disney's Tangled, Tartakovsky drew over the footage to illustrate the extreme poses that he desired. The animators were then on their own to figure out how to translate it.”

Your wording keeps contorting and changing, which tells me you’ve run into a dead end. What is “motion lines and in-betweening sourced directly from 2D animation” supposed to mean? It sounds like you’re inventing things on the spot. Ciscocat (talk) 05:24, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

There is a video that shows how the "sketchviz" technique worked in Tom & Jerry. It was completely unique to the film, and Coyote vs. ACME is the only other film to have done this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aK0MFQrPKI&ab_channel=StudioRedRobin CriticallyThinking (talk) 05:31, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

FYI, when 2D characters would even run, there would be lines of motion tracing their action and even in-between shadows in frames. T&J even achieved those little details sourced from 2D with CG software, in the vein of classic 2D and of the original characters from the Golden Age of Animation. CriticallyThinking (talk) 05:32, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I feel queasy seeing that you’re ripping chunks out of the Hotel Transylvania article for no reason in the edit history. THAT is vandalism, and it’s low even for you. I assume me bringing it up poked some kind of hole in your argument, otherwise you would not be doing this. Cut it out, for your sake, because we have a very strong case to make to admins against you for doing this. Ciscocat (talk) 05:34, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

You literally removed the quotations I added in the source, like the stylized take, that proves what they were going for: A blend of the realism from CGI with the exaggeratedness inspired by 2D animation via stylization. WHO is the vandal again? Just like how you always were in the T&J article... typical cyber-stalking Cameron. CriticallyThinking (talk) 05:37, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

These personal insults aren't helping anyone. Your Hotel Transylvania edits only seem to have happened because of this argument about the T&J movie. Harryhenry1 (talk) 05:39, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I proved you wrong about The Peanuts Movie being a cloning of computer animation, and I did it once again here. Completely different directions. CriticallyThinking (talk) 05:42, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

• traditional I meant

CriticallyThinking (talk) 05:43, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Lmao what? You proved him wrong about the Peanuts Movie being a clone of computer animation? It is computer animation. I know that’s probably not what you meant to say but I can sense you’re getting a bit flustered/desperate. You’re explaining stuff that we already know as if we don’t know it. Ciscocat (talk) 05:44, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Peanuts was to my knowledge just brought up as an example of CG homaging 2D animation to "varying degrees", not that it was a literal clone of 2D animation. Harryhenry1 (talk) 05:44, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Lol somebody’s angry now. You deleted chunks of the paragraphs in what I can only assume was without much thought, and reworded stuff that didn’t need rewording. I assume the insults come out when I strike a nerve. Ciscocat (talk) 05:40, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

You're now poking fun of someone for being quote unquote "angry" and literally admits to reverting my edit when "I strike a nerve". Someone is triggered, I see. CriticallyThinking (talk) 05:42, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

You are twisting my words and it’s really funny. This is great. Thank you. Ciscocat (talk) 05:45, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

You're still talking over a potshot. If you have nothing more to add, surrender before having another article to vandalize. CriticallyThinking (talk) 05:47, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

You still haven't explained why you made your Hotel Transylvania edits. Harryhenry1 (talk) 05:50, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I added more information and quotes from the true intentions behind its direction that you took as "me removing information". Before obsesseively insulting me and chasing after me, it's best to just read sources. Just like how I cited The Peanuts Movie's approach to animation was stop-motion inspired, you'd see that as me "removing information". Do better. CriticallyThinking (talk) 05:52, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I’ve only seen you insulting me on this occasion, and frankly a lot of the original edits you made weren’t productive. Some of the recent ones are a little better, but it was clearly born out of a spite directed at that film once you realized you needed to defend T&J by editing the page incrementally. Every time somebody tries to clean up after your poorly structured jargon, you assume they have a bias, but every accusation seems to be a confession with you. Ciscocat (talk) 05:57, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I edit pages all the time to make it more clear. I made the most recent edit on The Peanuts Movie to show what the animation was aiming for. Hotel Translvania's approach to animation was quoted as a personal touch exclusive for 2D veteran Genndy Tartakovsky himself. He wanted to subvert the realistic traditions of CGI with the added stylization and cartooniness reminiscent/inspired by 2D animation rather than a copy of it. And it was all based on his signature style and what he wanted to do with "pushing reality". You even admitted that you revert my edits out of a pure trigger rather than going over them. Give up. CriticallyThinking (talk) 06:00, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Do not start acting like you’re suddenly an expert or passionate about these films because we know full well why you’re behaving like this. And I clearly said that I struck a nerve with you when you began to retaliate with a bunch of insults, so you’re either lying or were unable to comprehend that. I’ll let you pick. Ciscocat (talk) 06:03, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I've edited on this site years before I even knew you, and even then I barely know you to this day. The words and quotes are all the sources. Your obsessive behavior is literslly what caused a page to be protected from vandalism, a month ago. And if you won't leave me alone, I will geniunely report you for not only vandalizing, but for cyber-stalking. CriticallyThinking (talk) 06:05, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Well if you’re gonna take it that far, then sure, I won’t get involved in your B.S. anymore. But I will not be the last person to take issue with how you conduct yourself on this site. Ciscocat (talk) 06:08, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

It's been months since I outright messaged you that I wanted nothing to do with you and your ego, before you got banned on Twitter for like the millionth time. You're bringing this to yourself, and even after this, you're getting away with cyber-stalking. I am indeed convinced you are a troll. CriticallyThinking (talk) 06:09, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Okay, chill. I’ll block your username on this site. But I’m not beneath reporting you. Ciscocat (talk) 06:13, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

The fact that you were only able to parrot things I said back at me with the context warped, and hurl insults at me, only further proves you’re in a weak position. That is on top of demonstrating numerous times that you don’t have a grasp on what you’re talking about and repeating things ad hominem as if they’re arguments people don’t already know. Ciscocat (talk) 06:01, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

You hurl insults at me all the time, to the point of literally cyber-stalking me, and judt admitted you revert my edits intentionally rather than actually going over them. And you're the same person who thinks he can get away with it. CriticallyThinking (talk) 06:03, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I do go over your edits and I recognize they’re not productive in the slightest.

And I would have gotten away with it, if not for those meddling kids. Ciscocat (talk) 06:05, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

"And I would have gotten away with it, if not for those meddling kids." (I know you are talking about the admins, and only feel satisfied when you want them in your side)

I am convinced you are a troll or a bot. CriticallyThinking (talk) 06:07, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

It was a joke.

Here’s a source for what a joke is. Ciscocat (talk) 06:09, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Your edits didn't add anything that wasn't already there, it just made things more confusing and muddled. Harryhenry1 (talk) 05:58, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I don’t know what “talking over a potshot” means but I assume it’s a potshot of your own making. If you’re not angry (or “quote unquote ‘angry,’” as you would put it) then how could I be poking fun at you? What am I surrendering for? So many unanswered questions. Ciscocat (talk) 05:50, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I have to applaud you on some level for the amount of energy you’ve expended defending the Tom & Jerry movie in the almost four years since it came out. The UN projects in 2024 that the average life expectancy is 73 years, of which four years represents 5%. Tell me, is it worth it to spend that much time burning bridges over this film that the director probably doesn’t even remember making? Ciscocat (talk) 04:51, 19 August 2024 (UTC)