Talk:Tipi

Portuguese language link removal

I want to remove the Portuguese language link - as it's totally unrelated to this article - but since I don't have the time to learn how to do that in the new version of that feature I'm asking if someone can do that for me. Thanks in advance. :) CasperBraske (talk) 21:38, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Chum, lavvu and goahti

These are all similar (and probably organically related) structures, why not feature them here as well? Kortoso (talk) 23:26, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Baloney

Teepees were absolutely used outside of the Great Plains - take the Yakama, Cayuse_people, etc.

I'm going to update the article, but wanted to put that out there first Red Slash 17:17, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Spelling

See Merriam-Webster's entries on teepee, tipi and tepee. Different than how it's stated here in the intro regarding which is more common. Quite the opposite in fact.

• WP states (incl. in the ref note) – tipi, teepee, tepee — as the order of most to least common.
• Dict.org states – a Native American tent; usually of conical shape, syn: tepee, tipi, teepee — regardless of which three are entered in the search field.
• Merriam-Webster.com states – tepee ..."variants: or teepee or less commonly tipi" --DB1729 (talk) 22:01, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Few more in conflict with our page:

• Dictionary.com – tipi redirects to its entry on teepee.
• Dictionary.Cambridge.org – similarly redirects. Its entry for tipi simply gives "a tepee" as a definition and links "tipi" to their full definition at tepee. Their entry for "teepee" states "another spelling of tepee" again linking to tepee for the full definition.
• Wiktionary.com – teepee is the primary spelling with "tepee" and "tipi" listed as alternate forms.
• Lexico.com – "tipi" and "teepee" redirect to its definition at tepee.

In summary, Merriam-Webster, Dictionary.com, Dictionary.Cambridge, Wiktionary, Lexico and even Dict.org, the cited source in the first sentence of the article, all agree "tipi" is a less common form of the word. --DB1729 (talk) 23:58, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

The WP article states in the lead, within a ref note: "...And rarely, "tepee" tepee (dwelling) -- Encyclopædia Britannica"

That link is to Encyclopædia Britannica's entry for Tepee which states:

Alternative Titles: teepee, tipi

Tepee, also spelled tipi,

...and so not "rarely" as our article claims, but in fact the source supports "tepee" as the most common spelling.

This is clearly a misrepresentation of the source. DB1729 (talk) 16:01, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Agreed, I'll fix this.

Clear case of WP:ENGVAR. Some editors have never heard of tepee, which is what the OED/Britannica favors, others have never heard of tipi, some have never heard of teepee.

Since their use spans the Northern US and Canada, it seems appropriate not to favor the Canadian spelling exclusively but include US and Canada.

The recent edit also claimed that "tepee" and "teepee" where "phonetic" spellings; this isn't exactly true: "tepee" could be pronounced TEH-pee and "tipi" isn't necessarily pronounced phonetically as "TIH-pee", the rules of common pronunciation allow "tipi" to be phonetic as well. DenverCoder9 (talk) 15:47, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

MOS says to use English that is most common in relation to the subject matter. Tipi are from Native tribes located in the US and Canada, not the UK, AU or NZ.  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 18:19, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Types and Utility/Structure

Lewis H. Morgan is cited on how to erect the tipi poles, but his quote "The frame consists of thirteen poles from fifteen to eighteen feet in length, which, after being tied together at the small ends, are raised upright with a twist so as to cross the poles above the fastening" does not reflect the way a tipi frame is actually constructed. The Indian Tipi: Its History, Construction, and Use By Gladys Laubin, Reginald Laubin (a work that is cited on two other occasions in this article) is most likely a better authority on this subject, the Laubins having learned the technique directly from Sioux people who continued the use of the tipi into the 20th century.

Personally, I have used the Laubin instructions eight times and I would make this edit myself (citing the Laubins' work), but I no longer have access to The Indian Tipi: Its History, Construction, and Use and so I can no longer directly quote it. Per the Laubins: Three poles are lashed together on the ground, raised up and spread out into a tripod, and the remaining poles are laid into the three crotches above the lashing (this accurately conveys the technique, but it is not a quote). I hope that another user with access to the Laubins' work could extract from the The Indian Tipi: Its History, Construction, and Use a more correct summary of how the frame is erected. --JohnBarnett (talk) 16:47, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 25 June 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) -- Vaulter 12:18, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

---

Tipi → Tepee – This was requested by user:DemonDays64 with the following rationale: "As stated at the top of the page the current location, Tipi, is an unusual spelling and Tepee is more common (personally I have never seen the former). Tepee is used all over the page and I do not know why the page is now at Tipi, as the move log only shows one move from Tipi to Tepee, 11 years ago." I did the move, but then it was contested, so I've undone the move and started this RM instead. Dr. Vogel (talk) 12:43, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. This appears to be a case of WP:ENGVAR, as Canadian sources almost all use "tipi" [1] [2] [3] [4]. 162 etc. (talk) 13:33, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose This appears to be a case of WP:ENGVAR. Beside that, in the last move also Tipi (disambiguation) was moved, contrary to the fact that the tipi as accommodation is clearly the primary topic. The Banner talk 15:23, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
  • By the way: it is also called a Tipi in Dutch. The Banner talk 10:52, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

The article is currently using the spelling tepee. It would follow the guidelines more to switch to use that as the title than to keep the title and switch the whole article to another variant imo DemonDays64 (talk•contribs) 19:42, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

See tepee → tipi changes here and current state of the article. DB1729 (talk) 06:09, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

• Guys - you have got to check out the original version of this page. Much improved; I wish every article on Wikipedia ended with the author reminiscing about his youth spent camping in New York. Anyway, "tipi" has been the title since the first version of this page that anyone would recognize as being a Wikipedia article. With sorrow (because it's not MY preferred spelling), I must oppose this move request; the page should be in Canadian English and the word "tipi" should be used consistently here. Red Slash 17:40, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
• Strong oppose. Tipi is concise. Teepee, which looks childish, is much more common than tepee. National Geographic prefers tipi in its style guide. National Museum of the American Indian uses tipi. The notion that tepee is the preferred US spelling is absolutely incorrect. If tepee is used current throughout the article that needs to be fixed as opposed to moving the entire article to that bizarre spelling. Yuchitown (talk) 23:49, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

Tipi is concise. Not sure what the length of the word has to do with anything.

Teepee, which looks childish, funny, I have the same opinion about "Tipi".

...is much more common than tepee. Maybe more, but I wouldn't go so far as to say much more, as explained further down.

National Geographic prefers tipi in its style guide. True, but interesting that the first page linked in the above statement[5] also points out "This is an exception to Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, which prefers tepee and considers teepee and tipi as variant spellings."

...National Museum of the American Indian uses tipi. Seems to be true but only provided the search results for "tipi". [6] I'm assuming these are all items used in the conical tent we're calling a tipi? I didn't click through every page but I never saw an image of the dwelling. The same website's search results for teepee,[7] is only three images, but all of paintings depicting conical tents.

The notion that tepee is the preferred US spelling is absolutely incorrect. Overstatement. I pointed out some of these things in the section above 'Spelling' a couple years ago. Many online dictionaries prefer "teepee" and "tepee" over "tipi". Most preferring "tepee" over the others. See collapse section for links and other stats.

Extended content

Merriam-Webster.com: teepee: variant spelling of TEPEE tipi: less common spelling of TEPEE Main entry: tepee: variants: or teepee or less commonly tipi. Definition of tepee: a conical tent usually consisting of skins.... Dictionary.com: tipi: a variant of teepee. Main entry: teepee: or te·pee, ti·pi: a tent of the American Indians, made usually... Dictionary.Cambridge.org: tipi: a tepee teepee: another spelling of tepee Main entry: tepee (also teepee); (tipi) a type of tent... Wiktionary – Main entry: teepee Lexico.com - Trying to search for "tipi", it has no entry whatsoever. It immediately redirects to the main entry tepee (also teepee). However it does use the tipi spelling when using the word in sentence. Britannica.com – Main entry: "tepee, also spelled tipi, conical tent most common to the North American Plains Indians." Google search terms: tipi tent – 13,800,000 results teepee tent – 14,600,000 results tepee tent – 1,400,000 results tipi dwelling – 806,000 results teepee dwelling – 337,000 results tepee dwelling – 1,070,000 results

If tepee is used current throughout the article that needs to be fixed as opposed to moving the entire article to that bizarre spelling. (Calling the spelling "bizarre" is another overstated opinion.) The article was mostly fixed in that regard a few days ago. Here is that diff.

When I first stumbled upon this article a couple years ago, it was saying things like tepee was a "rarely" used form of the word. Then the statement would be sourced to something stating it was the preferred spelling of the three and that tipi was in fact was the rare form. Yuchitown, I'm not saying you added it. I'm fairly certain you did not. And I hope my criticisms are not too harsh or taken the wrong way. It's just odd that although I'm about to agree with your oppose, I disagree with almost everything you said.

Based on what I could find, it seems clear that Tipi is the preferred Canadian spelling. It was the spelling used first as pointed out in earlier comments, and therefore per MOS:RETAIN, I oppose the move to Tepee. But I discourage anyone from introducing descriptions like "rarely used" to the alternate spellings in the lead. I believe I have established they are common enough, at least in the U.S. --DB1729 (talk) 06:09, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

• Strong Oppose. I can find plenty of sites that use tipi in the United States and as a enrolled member of the Spirit Lake Dakota tribe I can tell you I've never seen any other Lakota or Dakota using the spelling "teepee" over "tipi". Some government and tribal government sources that use tipi: Government of North Dakota, National Park Service, US Department of the Interior, Bureau of Land Management, South Dakota Department of Tourism, Shakopee Mdewakanton Sioux Tribe. Minnesota Historical Society also uses tipi. I could go on and don't know why the article says "US spelling" when that's not the case -- tipi is also widely used these days.  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 14:21, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose. Up until several years ago, I'd never seen the other spellings proposed here. When I have come across them, they've been in non-Native sources, often those with really awful misinformation about Indigenous people. Just correct the misspellings in the article and toss out the bad sources. (The few RS sources that use the childish, phonetic spellings... well, language mistakes are common, especially when they're based on phonetic renderings. But that's not an excuse to perpetuate cringeworthy mistakes. For instance: Hindu vs "Hindoo"). - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 20:21, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

  Hard disagree. "Tepee" and "teepee" are not mistakes. They are perfectly acceptable and valid spellings of a word that does not originate from a language with a Latin alphabet and therefore had to be transliterated. Variant transliterations are common and normal. Just because you have never seen it doesn't mean it isn't real. Merriam-Webster actually prefers "tepee". Don't start gloating just because your preferred spelling is going to win. It's not winning because it's less "cringeworthy" (I cringe even writing that); it's going to win because it was the first version used. Red Slash 16:53, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

  The tribes still exist and spell it tipi so why is Merriam-Webster overriding people who have developed their own dictionaries at this point? See tipi in the Online Dakota-English dictionary of the Sisseton Wahpeton Oyate.  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 18:05, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

  Familiarity with the subject matter is required to vet the sources. The Merriam-Webster examples for the "tepee" mispelling were appalling and offensive. They were taken from things like newage workshops. When we evaluate sources, we have to take into account whether the source is using material from the culture in question - this is what makes it reliable. This is why I cut that dicdef. Calling tipis "lodges" is sourced in the body text, and common knowledge in Indian Country. There is no reason to prioritize out of date mistakes, now that sources from the cultures in question have been published, and now that Wikipedians from the cultures in question are able to vet the sources with the expertise required. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 20:37, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

  P.S. Red Slash wrote:

  a word that does not originate from a language with a Latin alphabet and therefore had to be transliterated.

  ... The Siouan languages use the Latin alphabet. They have not been transliterated. The optional use of accent marks is still well within the scope of the Latin alphabet. While alternate orthographic systems have at times been proposed in some communities, none of those are in general usage, or anything more than proposals. Where on Earth are you getting these ideas? - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 21:43, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Tipi out of driftwood

It is common practise for people to build tipis out of branches at a beach or in their garden, but there seems to be no information on this. I'm not too sure how to approach this. Should we create a new article or use this one? Considering that these have look completely different and have completely different purposes: one is made as a building to use (typically by native americans), while the other is made for leisure (by people all over the world). Panamitsu (talk) 09:50, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Those are definitely not tipis and doesn't warrant a page unless you can find sources to prove its Wikipedia:Notability.  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 10:33, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

@Oncamera That's what my concern is. Do you know what else they would be called? At least in New Zealand we call them teepees.

Here are a few sources to be clear on what I'm talking about

Image:

https://www.istockphoto.com/photos/driftwood-teepees

https://www.alamy.com/primitive-lavvu-like-shelter-image416817779.html?imageid=32252D17-9353-43B7-8F43-E8E3805AE586&p=389215&pn=1 Panamitsu (talk) 10:58, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

@Oncamera I just figured out that they're often called driftwood forts. I'll write an article about them, unless there are any objections. There is quite significant coverage of such phenomenon. Panamitsu (talk) 11:01, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

WTF is a tipi?

The article claims "tipi" is the most common spelling in Canada. As a Canadian I have never seen a single use of this spelling, in Canada or anywhere, until seeing it here. No one knows what "tipi" is. Teepee should be the title of the article. 24.222.58.42 (talk) 16:53, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

The word comes from the Lakota/Dakota people and it has consistently been spelled tipi throughout the decades and is the spelling these tribes use today. I added sources for this information.  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 18:16, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

A thípi, NOT tipi or teepee, is NOT a tent!

With respect for people's ignorance of this is not their fault, but that of those who spread false teachings, thípi's best translation from Lakȟótiyapi, where the word comes from, has nothing whatsoever to do with a tent. It means "The Place Where They Rest", as sacred burial grounds called thípis as well, where the ancestors rest.

It's a shame that even on Wikipedia our culture, and our language, it still being mangled beyond recognition by settler society. I would not dream in a million years that this will ever be changed, damage done, but I at least felt like I should add this correction so at least maybe a few people who may come across this will now know a thípi is NOT a tent (which I still live in during all the summer months), and it's ACTUAL meaning.

Napayshni Wiyaka Sapa, Thunder Butte, Cheyenne River Reservation 204.83.199.150 (talk) 15:59, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Where does it say that tipi translates to tent?  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 16:11, 16 July 2024 (UTC)