Talk:The Tortoise and the Hare

History

I need to know the history of this fable —The preceding 216.56.21.190 (talk) 15:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC).

luggage

105.54.107.152 (talk) 16:03, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Another Interpretation

Another way to interpret this fable is with the now cliche "pride cometh before the fall." Here is another interpretation of the story; "taking pride in a gift is the same thing as not having it." The hare was overbearingly proud of its speed, so proud, he took a nap, the tortoise beat him, therefore making it as if the hare was never even fast in the first place, BECAUSE the hare was so arrogantly proud. The moral of the story is that even a great gift, be it intelligence, technology, strenth, whatever, can be taken away by arrogant pride.

The Tortoise and the Hare has a parallel in sports; namely, the Tyson - Douglas upset. Mike Tyson was the Hare, and Buster Douglas was the turtle. Anyone, no matter how gifted, if they are arrogantly proud, their pride makes it as if though they do not even have the gift. Arrogant pride, can take everything away, and the thing that takes it away can be someone, or something inferior to you. The tortoise had no business beating the hare; it had no speed. However one thing the tortoise did not have, was prideful arrogance.

The hare was certain of victory, so it was lazy, while the tortoise worked, worked and worked, and despite its "inferiority," it beat the hare.

Another possible moral, is that pride, arrogance and vanity will take away from even the most gifted person. Because the hare was so arrogant, its speed did not help it any; the tortoise, was already at the finish line. Understandable why the fables have endured; there is much wisdom in them.

67.148.120.103 (talk) 12:06, 19 October 2009 (UTC)stardingo747

And in recent years, you hear from time to time about an athlete messing something up by celebrating too early. For example, a runner leading a race waves before reaching the finish line, enabling another runner to pass him or her to win. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.47 (talk) 20:27, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Adaptations and cultural references

I'm missing the Grizzly Adams episode #712 The Rivals in the cultural references section. Link: http://www.grizzlyadams.net/episodes/theRivals.html Snelle Fjöll (talk) 18:15, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

The long list of references, now removed, was of very limited encyclopaedic use. The majority were unsourced or, where this was supplied (as in the comment above), gave no indication of what relevance they were to the fable or why the title had been used in this instance. Any modern allusion (and there are thousands) is not noteworthy unless it can add to our understanding of the fable and its changing interpretation.

In rewriting the article, I moved up as many of the references as were relevant into appropriate sections. In the case of the many variant fables from the oral tradition, it seemed a better idea to point people to the collection of all the texts in a generalised comment on their tendency. To have gone any further would have risked going off-topic.

I also substituted different pictures for those originally used. Partly this is a matter of taste: the Rackham illustration seemed to work better in enlarged pixel size; the Grandville picture is necessary since it is commented upon in the text.

Despite the 200 hits or so that this article receives daily, not many visit the discussion section. If any do, they are invited to add their thoughts and suggestions. Mzilikazi1939 (talk) 11:41, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Warner Bros. Cartoons

There have been three or four different "tortoise and the hare" cartoons in the classic Looney Tunes/Merrie Melodies series; most though not all starred Bugs Bunny. One in particular that I remember had several different turtles surprising Bugs along the route by always being ahead of him no matter how fast he ran. There was a slow-talking turtle starring in these whose name escapes me. I had several videotapes of Looney Tunes cartoons pre-Katrina and remember seeing more than just a couple that used this story. Shocking Blue (talk) 08:07, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Primary sources

I've reverted the tab you added to this article, since the reason given for it looks more like opinion. One hardly needs to "judge the importance" of one of the better known fables which has been a common metaphor for over two millennia. In any case, many of the references are in line with the guidelines I and a fellow editor agreed on five years ago for covering fables, most of which require references to primary sources. There are references to secondary sources too, and I guess one or two others might be useful.

I suspect you have not read the article closely to see exactly what it is establishing. I note too that we have been editors for about the same length of time and I know there is eventually the temptation to throw one's weight around as if we were administrators. Neither you nor I are, however - though I wouldn't be averse to asking for a third opinion from one of them, if you want. It was they who worked out the MOS guidelines and are more in touch with how they are supposed to work. Mzilikazi1939 (talk) 19:48, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

@Mzilikazi1939: Primary sources are not appropriate for many of the claims in the article. Claims like "the fable was given satirical interpretations" cannot be sourced to a primary source. Examples from popular culture, such as the sections "musical versions" and "illustrations of the fable", require secondary sources. I am not "throwing my weight around", I'm attempting to improve the article in accordance to Wikipedia policies and consensus. Bright☀ 20:28, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Dahomey

We're told that 'Dahomey' issued a stamp with a picture of the fable to mark the tricentenary of La Fontaine's death. As far as I can see, there's a whole lot wrong with this statement: (1) La Fontaine died in 1695, so the tricentenary would have been in 1995; (2) in 1995 there was no longer a country called Dahomey - the French colony of Dahomey had become independent as the 'Republic of Dahomey' in 1958, but renamed itself (to reduce interethnic conflict) the 'Republic of Benin' in 1975, so it seems very unlikely it would still have been issuing stamps under the old name 20 years later (they can hardly have been using up old stock, and stamps are a key symbol of national sovereignty); (3) the source reference 21 (a Creighton University site) does indeed show stamps marked 'République du Dahomey', but for each one the date of issue is apparently uncertain ('1990?' - note the question mark, and the fact that they weren't clearly issued in 1995, so they can't have been issued to mark the tricentenary of La Fontaine's death, which is confirmed on the stamps as 1695) - I can't help wondering how reliable this source is; (4) the link to the 'Dahomey' article is not to the modern republic or even to the French colony, but to the pre-colonial African 'Kingdom of Dahomey', which would never have issued stamps and has nothing to do with the case - to get to the most relevant article (on the 'Republic of Dahomey', which at least issued the stamps, but not on the right date - nor can they have marked the tricentenary of his BIRTH, which was in 1621) you first have to go to the disambiguation page. All in all, this is a pretty confusing sentence, and I can't see any easy way of correcting it. Delete?84.243.236.9 (talk) 12:02, 19 June 2019 (UTC) Just wondering if the stamps were in fact issued to mark the 350TH anniversary of La Fontaine's BIRTH - that would make the date of issue 1971 (1621 + 350), four years before the Republic of Dahomey abolished that name, so it could still have been issuing stamps under it. But if that's right, the Creighton University source is even less reliable!84.243.236.9 (talk) 12:12, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

Issue date was 1972; that information added. Sweetpool50 (talk) 16:33, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Ambiguity?

I am not content with a page that does not deal with the historical background, since the Aesop Tales are indeed supposedly sorted chronologically. The tale is not so much ambiguous as it is incomplete, since it should actually involve all twelve* signs of the Chinese Zodiac. If you connect it to that tale, the missing pieces are revealed and you may begin to piece it together.

• 12 or thirteenth, actually. The dragon still exists in the Chinese astrology and in the tale He is the most altruistic ,

not feeling the need for speed, but actually helps desperate humans on the way. Dig deeper into the demonising of the serpent. The tortoise, least we forget, is a reptile. And the Chinese interchange Leo with Dragon. Though it is clear that the hare symbolises haste, there is more symbolism involved with the tortoise. The pleurodira turtle shell has 13 plastral scutes and is related to Hermes, and is the Earth symbol.

Look at WP:NOTESSAY...and learn how to sign your name to posts. Sweetpool50 (talk) 08:28, 13 February 2023 (UTC)