Talk:Temple Shalom of Northwest Arkansas

Rewrite?

The article might be in need of a complete rewrite. As it currently is written it's likely written by someone from the congregation, has a lot of extraneous information and is not asserting much notability. Let's try to work on it a bit. Bstone (talk) 05:27, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Been working on the article for a bit. What do folks think? The history section needs a lot of work. Removing inuse for the night. Bstone (talk) 06:36, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi all, would you take a look at the rewrite at the bottom of this page and see if you think we are anywhere near being able to reconstruct this article? Thanks for all your hard work and time. Again, apologies for any misunderstandings. I would like to find an icon that means "Novice on Board" : ) JudithRobinsonLevine (talk) 05:04, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Reverts

I see that all the effort of the rewrite by IZAK and myself was undone by Wmflorick and JudithRobinsonLevine. Neither edits summaries not this talk page was used. Moreover the information which was readded is highly WP:OR in nature, the reference section has been eliminated and the formatting is all wrong. I shall wait a few hours but I may be reverting it back to the version in which IZAK and I worked on. Bstone (talk) 18:06, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

• I do not the think the COI issues are that great if the editing and writing can be done in a NPOV manner. For a start, could we please make a list here of all the issues that are being disputed rather than reverting each other back and forth which is not a productive way to arrive at consensus. Tkank you. IZAK (talk) 15:28, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

looking at it, I challenge the following content, just to start with:--a list of past presidents of the congregation, multiple pictures of the members and there, and a statement of principles that

• Promote spiritual nourishment.
• Enrich Jewish identity.
• strengthen the Jewish community.
• Welcome diverse practices of Judaism.

which to my mind is PR language. with the exception of the last, it applies to every jewish congregation there has ever been. DGG (talk) 15:59, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

No COI issue is that great as long as it's done in a neutral way. Tho it's pretty clear that's not how it played out. I even got "warned" on my talk page for "blanking" the article. It wasn't malicious, just new editors, tho. I agree with DGG above that the past presidents is not relevant to the article and the mission statement is not either. Are the mission statements of other congregations included on their articles? Or past presidents? I think the pictures are ok, or at lease the groundbreaking one as the donation from the Palestinian Muslim is what truly makes this congregation notable. Bstone (talk) 17:49, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Bstone, while you may have some technicalities on your side, in this case you should also consider WP:BITE and work with new editors, grant them the benefit of the doubt and take things with a grain of salt. I am also in agreement with User:DGG's judgment about the article's content.IZAK (talk) 18:31, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks all for these comments. I am trying to mediate between the author of the article, who was understandably upset at finding much of her work suddenly eliminated, and you Wikipedians trying to uphold the standards of Wikipedia. Will appreciate any help you can provide!

Regarding the mission statement, though it may be similar to other mission statements, it seems that if you want to know anything at all about an organization, its mission statement is relevant.

I know that some of the original article contains PR-ish language, but I think that can be removed without getting rid of essential information.

I need to do a litte research on sources of information so proper cites can be provided. Will get back to you when I have it.

I told Bstone, and will repeat to all of you--I am brand new at this, so your help is appreciated.

Rabbi Jacob Adler Jacobadlerarkansas (talk) 19:03, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

• Hi Rabbi Adler: Good of you to join us. At this stage what it all boils down to is that the way to help any article, and yours is no exception, is to come up with citations to back what makes your synagogue notable. These can be links to articles on the Internet or to books and publications that you or anyone can get hold of. The syngogue's mission statement is not that important in the greater scheme of things because those are platitudes that can be said about any synagogue, or any synagogue can say it about itself, so it's not encyclopedic altho it may be emotionally important to you. What would be better are hitorical events in the history of the synagogue. Some important events in the synagogue's life and perhaps something about its past and present leadership. Also how the synagogue fits in with its surrounding community's history. User:Bstone came up with something very distinctive, that the synagogue was receiving significant philanthropic help from an Islamic source and he cited many news sources to back him up. That is very interesting and very significant in the greater scheme of things that what the synagogue may have written up on its "welcome" brochure. Finally, try not to see this as anything personal, we are trying to write and encyclopedia from a neutral point of view, see WP:NPOV and as much as possible rely in WP:CITE and WP:V (click on those links to see what they mean.) If you have any questions and concerns feel free to express them here on this talk page. You can avoid the pitfall of WP:COI if you show by your edits that you are not here purely for PR, see WP:NOT#SOAPBOX, but that you wish to portray the synagogue in an objective greater historical, sociological, and religious perspective. Thanks a lot, IZAK (talk) 20:27, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, IZAK. I'll be working on it as time permits. About the mission statement--synagogues do differ, and they define themselves in different ways, either by way of a mission statement or simply by tacit understanding. So I think the mission statement is more relevant than your observation would suggest. Temple Shalom defines its mission as a community cultural and religious center. This is not common to all synagogues. Some define their mission as promoting the observance of the commandments, which for Temple Shalom would be pretty peripheral. Some have a rather narrow ideological self-definition, and aim to serve only those who already share the ideology. Some aim to spread their ideology to others. Some define their goals as primarily religious, not social. And so on. When I lived in Jerusalem I belonged to synagogues with quite distinct missions: one promoted egalitarianism within the limits of Orthodoxy, the other was dedicated to worship in the spirit of Rabbi Shlomo Carlebach. I wouldn't *insist* on having the mission statement in the article, but it *does* tell the reader something about Temple Shalom that distinguishes it from many other synagogues. Thanks for all your efforts, IZAK. Rabbi Jacob Adler. Jacobadlerarkansas (talk) 21:05, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok Rabbi: But what you are now saying is getting into meatier stuff and thus away from banal generalities. Indeed, the kind of uniqueness of this synagogue should be brought not in some kind of "bullet point" fashion, because a Wikipedia article is neither a Microsoft WORD document nor is it a Power-Point presentation. You can have an entire section for ==Ideological outlook== or ==Core philosophy== and then elaborate, but no crass statement of a "Mission statement" as if this is some kind of "business report" or PR campaign of "talking points" meant to impress someone. In other words, the essence of the synagogue's mission and its uniquines can and must be couched in an encyclopedic manner and not in the synagogue's own propagandistic or high-falutin terms about how it views itself or toots it's own horn, rather it must be written and come across as if an objective outsider were writing a dispassionate and interesting description and explanation of the synagogue's workings, views, history etc. This is what is called WP:NPOV and it is key! That is how articles should be written and no doubt it can and will be done here as well. Thanks again for working to make this into a better article. Sincerely, IZAK (talk) 02:51, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

• In case it was not obvious, Judith Levine is also associated with the congregation and has contacted OTRS along similar lines, complaining that b y failing to describe this we are in some way harming the congregation. I think they are mistakenly trying to use the Wikipedia article, which is cited in some references, to promote their mission. Guy (Help!) 19:51, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
  • That is a shame that she feels that way. Of course that is not our intention in the least bit, but rather to bring the article up to the standards of WP. Hopefully she will find the time to participate in the discussion here, as Rabbi Adler has, so we can move forward with implementing what she feels is missing in a NPOV and WP:V manner. Bstone (talk) 00:00, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Judith Levine is currently in a place where she cannot access this discussion page. When she gets to be somewhere else, I expect she will contribute to the discussion. Jacobadlerarkansas (talk) 01:25, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Dear Friends, I want to propose the following rewrite for the "Rabbi" section. In view of all the controversy about this article, I am posting it here first on the discussion page before changing the actual article. The references are incomplete--I need to go the library to get full details on them. Thanks.

Existing section:

Rabbi

In 2006, University of Arkansas professor of philosophy Jacob Adler, having newly acquired his rabbinical degree, became the first resident Rabbi.

Proposed replacement:

Clergy

Until 2006, Temple Shalom was served by a variety of visiting rabbis, student rabbis, and cantors, who made monthly visits to Fayetteville during the academic year. [Reference--needs to be completed--article by L. J. Rosenberg in the journal, Ozarks Watch.] In 2006, University of Arkansas professor of philosophy Jacob Adler, having newly acquired his rabbinical ordination, became the first resident Rabbi. [1]

Let me know what you think.

Jacobadlerarkansas (talk) 19:51, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Seems perfectly fine to me, and it has a reference. I can add this if you'd like or you can feel free to do it. Bstone (talk) 23:52, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Bstone. Let me get you the complete reference and then you can add it.Jacobadlerarkansas (talk) 00:53, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Comment from Judith

Please don't bite Judith, despite the ownership issues she displays. The following message is from her, posted verbatim:

Attn: BStone, Guy Chapman, JzG, IZAK, Justin, Jimmy, Brian, anyone....

To Guy Chapman,

1.  I beg to correct your initial statement, in fact, Wikipedia does  
not allow ANYONE to edit. By a conservative estimate, one FIFTH of  
the world's population cannot because they are unable to edit through  
a proxy and they live behind the Great Firewall.  When I am in  
certain geographic locations, as I am now, I am not able to edit  
myself so I have delegated that task to others who have tried to edit  
for me, which has led to much misunderstanding for which I  
apologize.  I would welcome discussing this with you or anyone else,  
but, I CANNOT EDIT FROM HERE, and here is the kicker: I CANNOT ACCESS  
THE DISCUSSION PAGE!  Please try to imagine my frustration at  
watching the page have its notable content removed, edit by edit and  
then be unable to participate in the discussion.

2.  Just like Wikipedia, Temple Shalom of Northwest Arkansas is made  
up of hard-working volunteers, of which I am one.  While I am not as  
well versed in Wikipedia protocol as you all are, I am a quick  
learner.  I have been severely handicapped by my inability to  
communicate with you, but each attempt was met by Wikipedia's  
eventual rejection of any communication through any proxy I tried.  
If I, a native speaker, cannot understand how to bypass this problem,  
imagine the problem an Asian scholar would have when trying to access  
information unavailable to him or her in any other way.  In the name  
of freedom of speech, please be working with me to correct this  
problem.  I understand that there have been abuses through proxies,  
but for entire nations to be banned from knowing the truth about  
their history is problematic at the least.  Vidalia's tors have been  
refused also.  All tors have been refused to me even though I always  
log in.

3.  Wikipedia is meant to provide a knowledge base for anyone to  
access.  I assure you that I am not using Wikipedia as a promotional  
tool nor am I making assertions that lack a basis in fact.  Yes, I am  
actively involved in the Temple of Peace Project which has been  
written about extensively in major US newspapers.  This makes me one  
of the most reliable sources of information pertaining to it.  If  
neutrality has been compromised by my personal interest in providing  
information about one small group of people, some of whom have  
historically been enemies for centuries, who are putting down their  
weapons and beating them into plowshares, then I apologize and I am  
open to all suggestions as to how to revise the site to maintain  
neutrality.  As I wrote it, I thought it was a notable neutral article.

4.  I am happy to add references and citations for any statement  
made... in another 10 days, I will be in Greece for a few days, where  
I am hoping to be able to finally actively participate in the  
discussion from the Wikipedia site, if I get the time.

5.  While your editors may find some of the description of Temple  
Shalom's mission to be extraneous, I assure you that it is notable to  
find any religious institution as welcoming as ours.  I will be  
linking the site to Faith in America, another non-prof whose mission  
is to inform people about the bigotry and hatred inspired by the  
world's major religious institutions against women, people of color,  
gay, lesbian and transgender people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Gold_Co
6.  Please reference my revision on 06:08, 9 February 2008.  I will  
be happy to discuss further revising this article.  I will be happy  
to have someone put that discussion on the site.  I will be happy to  
discuss this by phone, email, Skype or any available method, but  
again, Wikipedia will not allow me to participate in the on-site  
discussion from my present location.

7.  My initial intention in writing the article was to provide  
information about one small step that just plain folks have taken to  
ending one particular conflict, I certainly do not wish to create any  
more conflict.  If, after discussion with the various editors who  
have worked hard on this site, there is no consensus, I will be happy  
to remove the page entirely, or to create another one that serves the  
goals of Wikipedia, again, provided that I am able to communicate  
with the editors.

Please forward this and my email address to all the editors of this  
site who have had the great good fortune to be living in the free  
world.  Also, please be discreet and do not make disparaging remarks  
about any particular country in any of your correspondence with me.  
It could cost me my visa.

Thanks.

best,  Judith Levine

I leave this in your hands, since there seems to be civil discourse here. Guy (Help!) 13:03, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I am back now...

Dears,

I am so sorry for all the confusion. It has been really frustrating to be unable to participate in this discussion. And my novice status has not helped at all. Thanks for not biting me. Hopefully we can get back to the subject at hand now. I will be available for the next 2 weeks or so to work with anyone who is also available on getting this page into shape. Thanks for all your helpful comments and for the opportunity to learn about the Wikipedia community.

To address some of the discussion:

It doesn't matter if the mission statement is there or not, but if it is included, I think it should read like it was written by the temple members, with no bullet points: Temple Shalom’s Mission Statement: To promote spiritual nourishment, enrich Jewish identity, strengthen our Jewish community, and to welcome diverse practices of Judaism. Generally it is written in five lines, but there is no reason it needs to be. That is a graphic decision. It's main importance in the article is to show that this congregation is an inclusive one. This is already implied elsewhere in the text, although not explicitly stated. I beleive this very inclusive mission is one of the reasons Mr. Bayyari was drawn to help Temple Shalom with the building project.

How do you address the conflict of interest issue? If the article has a sufficiently neutral point of view can it be considered cleaned up enough to return to an editable state? If so, can you eliminate the COI warning?

To address the Improve the Article warning, the following probably still needs work, but here is what I propose, so let me know if you think the following is appropriate, neutral and notable and I will add this in or you can...

Rewriting the description:

Temple Shalom of Northwest Arkansas

Temple Shalom of Northwest Arkansas is a small, mixed-denomination liberal, volunteer-run congregation that serves as the focal point for Jewish life in the Fayetteville, Arkansas area . While Temple Shalom is an affiliate of the Union for Reform Judaism, as the only synagogue in Fayetteville, Temple Shalom supports a variety of activities and services for Jews of all backgrounds.

Temple functions are financed through annual membership dues and special donations. Temple Shalom holds monthly Friday evening Shabbat services, led by resident part-time Rabbi Jacob Adler and weekly Religious School during the school year led by parents and other volunteers from the local Jewish community. The congregation observes the Jewish holidays and life-cycle events throughout the year. The Temple sponsors the maintenance and repair of the Hillel House and helps support the Hillel Student Organization (Hillel:_The_Foundation_for_Jewish_Campus_Life)

Temple Shalom supports a number of community projects and activities such as Habitat for Humanity, Faith in Action[2] and the Peace at Home Family Shelter[3] The Temple’s Board of Directors is made up of members from the Northwest Arkansas Jewish community.

Temple Shalom of Northwest Arkansas is building a synagogue that will continue to share room with the University of Arkansas Hillel, the UA Jewish student organization, which has always taken an active role in the congregation. Two notable contributions will allow Temple Shalom to make this happen: an endowment of seed money from the estate of a long time member and the generosity of Fadil Bayyari, a local Palestinian Muslim builder who has proposed building the new synagogue at his cost. While this is a considerable donation... probably 20% of the total cost of the project... the positive effect of a Muslim reaching out to a Jewish congregation in friendship, is incalculable. Brandeis University historian Jonathan Sarna said he knows of no other example of a Muslim offering to build a Jewish house of worship in the United States(link to bibliography>) (This statement was made in a newspaper article that is not online so can there just be a bibliography? If needed, I will contact Jonathan Sarna and get a quote from him, or at least a reference to the statement he made.)

Temple Shalom of Northwest Arkansas subscribes to the tenets of Faith in America[4] and welcomes the involvement and support of all Jews, their spouses, partners and friends so that all Jews in the Ozarks area can be part of the greater Jewish community.

Rewriting the History:

History of Temple Shalom

On January 21, 1981 about 30 people attended a meeting in Fayetteville, Arkansas with Rabbi Lawrence Jackofsky of the Southwest Council, Union of American Hebrew Congregations of Dallas. An overwhelming majority of those present favored the establishment of a Jewish congregation. On February 23, 1981 the congregation was formed and named Temple Shalom.

In March 1981, Rabbi Norbert L. Rosenthal, emeritus rabbi of Temple Israel in Tulsa, OK was invited to serve as the first rabbi. At the consecration ceremony on April 25th, 1981, the new board officers were installed. Temple Shalom arranged to use the Unitarian Fellowship hall for monthly services. Weekly Religious School, organized and conducted by parent volunteers took place at the Sam Barg Hillel House. Lay members conducted weekly Friday night services.

Rewriting the Rabbi section:

Until 2006, Temple Shalom was served by a variety of visiting rabbis, student rabbis, and cantors, who made monthly visits to Fayetteville during the academic year. [5] In 2006, University of Arkansas professor of philosophy Jacob Adler, having newly acquired his rabbinical ordination, became the first resident Rabbi. [[6]]

Rewriting the Building section

In 1999, the University of Arkansas Hillel began leasing a building from the University at 608 N. Storer Ave. in Fayetteville. Temple Shalom continued its support of the University of Arkansas Hillel by leasing space in this larger building. Larger gatherings continued to take place at the Unitarian Universalist Fellowship down the street. Religious School was held every Sunday morning.

In 2004, just when Temple Shalom was rapidly growing out of that building, some members from the Rogers and Bentonville area decided to form a new congregation in Bentonville, Congregation Etz Chaim [7], thus doubling the Jewish presence in Northwest Arkansas and temporarily easing the need for Temple Shalom to move again to a bigger facility.

By 2005, Temple Shalom had again grown enough to need its own building. Temple Shalom of Northwest Arkansas included nearly 60 families. There were about 30 children attending Religious School, several of whom became bar or bat mitzvah each year. The project to find or build a new building was launched by then president Joe Ratner. Longtime member Miriam Ella Alford proposed donating seed money to encourage others to donate to the building fund. The temple briefly considered buying and renovating an E. Fay Jones house, but those plans fell through.

In 2006, local builder, Fadil Bayyari, a Palestinian Muslim from Springdale, Arkansas approached Temple Shalom member Ralph Nesson at a Rotary Club meeting. Mr. Bayyari proposed to build a new building for Temple Shalom at his cost. This offer spurred much interest in the local and national press. (links)

In 2007 Temple Shalom purchased a little less than an acre of land at the corner of Sang Avenue and Cleveland Street to create a Temple Shalom / University of Arkansas Hillel home that will also house a multicultural library.

In October of 2007, there was a "ground blessing" ceremony that was attended by religious leaders from a wide variety of faith traditions. Later that month, the former Sam Barg Hillel House at 607 Storer was sold to the University of Arkansas. The leased UA building at 608 Storer continues to serve until the new building is built and becomes habitable.

JudithRobinsonLevine (talk) 00:44, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

oh... another thing or two...

Yes, I agree, the list of past presidents are not needed... just informational. Of course, they each contributed to arriving at a notable place in the history of the congregation, but it is not relevant to the article. Also, sorry for not including the links on this discussion page... just in a hurry to get to bed... it was a very long trip today... and I wanted to get your input before doing anything else.

Please forgive my using links instead of references here... I do understand the difference and in the article they will be references, but I couldn't figure out how to get them to appear on the talk page... any suggestions?

Again, I very much appreciate your discretion and understanding about my security issues on this talk page and in correspondence with me, especially when I am in Asia, about not making disparaging remarks about any particular country. Thanks for all your help. If I don't hear back soon, I will assume that I can add the above edits to improve the Temple Shalom of Northwest Arkansas site. I am in Europe now and we are 6-9 hours later than you are in the States so I will be updating this evening my time.

JudithRobinsonLevine (talk) 00:54, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

• Judith, none of the above is sourced to reliable sources, and I am bound to say that your best bet is to put the text you want on your website, which is linked, because your mission is to promote the temple and raise funds, while ours is to describe it neutrally, and the two seem to keep conflicting. Wikipedia is not part of your fundraising strategy, and any attempt to make it so will only land you in trouble. No you may not use "implied consent" in this way, you have a conflict of interest and should leave it to others to judge whether to add your changes or not. Guy (Help!) 11:36, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Guy,

Thanks so much for your posting. Glad to be able to discuss this with you finally. I don't know why you think my mission is fundraising. It is not. At the very bottom of a long list of references and sources is one single link to ATEMPLEOFPEACE.COM. Here is the full text of a possible rewrite with sources. Please comment. Thanks for all your input.

best, Judith

Temple Shalom of Northwest Arkansas is a small, mixed-denomination liberal, volunteer-run congregation that serves as the focal point for Jewish life in the Fayetteville, Arkansas area. While Temple Shalom is an affiliate of the Union for Reform Judaism, as the only synagogue in Fayetteville, Temple Shalom supports a variety of activities and services for Jews of all backgrounds.

Temple functions are financed through annual membership dues and special donations. Temple Shalom holds monthly Friday evening Shabbat services, led by resident part-time Rabbi Jacob Adler and weekly Religious School during the school year led by parents and other volunteers from the local Jewish community. The congregation observes the Jewish holidays and life-cycle events throughout the year. The Temple sponsors the maintenance and repair of the Hillel House and helps support the University of Arkansas Hillel Jewish Student Organization

Temple Shalom supports a number of community projects and activities such as Habitat for Humanity, Faith in Action and the Peace at Home Family Shelter The Temple’s Board of Directors is made up of members from the Northwest Arkansas Jewish community.

Temple Shalom of Northwest Arkansas is building a synagogue that will continue to share room with the University of Arkansas Hillel, the UA Jewish student organization. Two notable contributions will allow Temple Shalom to make this happen: an endowment of seed money from the estate of a long time member and the generosity of Fadil Bayyari, a local Palestinian Muslim builder who has proposed building the new synagogue at his cost, a savings of an estimated 20% of the total cost of the project. The positive effect of a Muslim reaching out to a Jewish congregation in friendship, is incalculable. Brandeis University historian Jonathan Sarna said he knows of no other example of a Muslim offering to build a Jewish house of worship in the United States.

Temple Shalom of Northwest Arkansas subscribes to the tenets of Faith in America and welcomes the involvement and support of all Jews, their spouses, partners and friends so that all Jews in the Ozarks area can be part of the greater Jewish community.

Breaking ground for the new building

Religious School

History

On January 21, 1981 about 30 people attended a meeting in Fayetteville, Arkansas with Rabbi Lawrence Jackofsky of the Southwest Council, Union of American Hebrew Congregations of Dallas. An overwhelming majority of those present favored the establishment of a Jewish congregation. On February 23, 1981 the congregation was formed and named Temple Shalom.

In March 1981, Rabbi Norbert L. Rosenthal, emeritus rabbi of Temple Israel in Tulsa, OK was invited to serve as the first rabbi. At the consecration ceremony on April 25th, 1981, the new board officers were installed. Temple Shalom arranged to use the Unitarian Universalist Fellowship hall for monthly services. Weekly Religious School, organized and conducted by parent volunteers took place at the Sam Barg Hillel House. Lay members conducted weekly Friday night services.

Clergy

Until 2006, Temple Shalom was served by a variety of visiting rabbis, student rabbis, and cantors, who made monthly visits to Fayetteville during the academic year. Lay leaders fom the community also played a prominent role. In 2006, University of Arkansas professor of philosophy Jacob Adler, having newly acquired his rabbinical ordination, became the first resident Rabbi.

Building

In 1999, the University of Arkansas Hillel began leasing a building from the University at 608 N. Storer Avenue in Fayetteville. Temple Shalom continued its support of the University of Arkansas Hillel by leasing space in this larger building. Larger gatherings continued to take place at the neighboring Unitarian Universalist Fellowship. Religious School was held every Sunday morning.

In 2004, just when Temple Shalom was rapidly growing out of that building, some members from the Rogers and Bentonville area decided to form a new congregation in Bentonville, Congregation Etz Chaim , thus doubling the Jewish presence in Northwest Arkansas and temporarily easing the need for Temple Shalom to move again to a bigger facility.

By 2005, Temple Shalom had again grown enough to need its own building. Temple Shalom of Northwest Arkansas included nearly 60 families. There were about 30 children attending Religious School, several of whom became bar or bat mitzvah each year. The project to find or build a new building was launched by then president Joe Ratner. Longtime member Miriam Ella Alford proposed donating seed money to encourage others to donate to the building fund. The temple briefly considered buying and renovating an E. Fay Jones house, but those plans fell through.

In 2006, local builder, Fadil Bayyari, a Palestinian Muslim from Springdale, Arkansas approached Temple Shalom member Ralph Nesson at a Rotary Club meeting. Mr. Bayyari proposed to build a new building for Temple Shalom at his cost. This offer spurred much interest in the local and national press.

In 2007 Temple Shalom purchased a little less than an acre of land at the corner of Sang Avenue and Cleveland Street to create a Temple Shalom / University of Arkansas Hillel home that will also house a multicultural library.

On October 14, 2007, there was a ground breaking ceremony that was attended by religious leaders from a wide variety of faith traditions. Later that month, the former Sam Barg Hillel House at 607 Storer was sold to the University of Arkansas. The leased UA building at 608 Storer continues to serve until the new building is built and becomes habitable.

References and notes

External links

• Temple Shalom of Northwest Arkansas
• A Temple Of Peace
• Wikimapia

Category:Buildings and structures in Arkansas Category:College religious organizations Category:Fayetteville, Arkansas Category:Islamic and Jewish interfaith topics Category:Reform synagogues Category:Synagogues in Arkansas

JudithRobinsonLevine (talk) 12:01, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

...please don't bite me...

Dears,

There are 20 references... all of them reliable sources from various organizations, Wikipedia sites and national/regional newspapers: NYTimes, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, etc... Please comment on the content of this page. Thanks for all your help. I appreciate the notations on Bstone's page in discussions about the nature of COI and that a person's affiliation with an organization does not automatically make him/her ineligible to write an NPOV article. I believe the above illustrates this and I welcome discussion about the subject at hand.

I repeat, I am not a fundraiser. I don't know where this idea came from and I find it offensive to be repeatedly accused of misusing WIkipedia. Please don't bite me. I am new at this and welcome constructive criticism. I also do not own this page or any others and find it offensive to be accused repeatedly of having "ownership issues". Again, please stick to the subject so this page can be improved.

Thanks for all your help.

JudithRobinsonLevine (talk) 13:50, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

The problem is, 11 of the sources (and the most reliable ones) are all supporting one single sentence in the article. Jayjg ^(talk) 02:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Framework for clarification

All the tangential discussions have created confusion with people pulling in all sorts of directions. It would be helpful if the discussion could be boiled down as follows, please fill in the information after the numbers below. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 22:30, 16 March 2008 (UTC):

• IZAK, this is great. Can we limit our comments to the above rewrite which I hope presents the proper NPOV? if not, please advise... (of course, if there was anything in the previous versions that was slashed that should be there, please comment also) I think this rewrite addresses the disputed material: no list of past presidents, eliminates the mission statement, pays attention to NPOV, notability, reliable sources, references, etc... Again, I apologize to all for any confusion and transgressions due to inability to communicate in combination with my novice Wikipedia status. Looking forward to working with you and to arriving at consensus so we can all see this article republished in its improved form. JudithRobinsonLevine (talk) 02:20, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Hi Judith: Feel free to follow what you feel is right, but it is also best to allow anyone with other views to state their points, this way we can get "at a thing and its opposite" and head for greater consensus and closure. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 04:12, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Thanks IZAK (talk), Bstone (talk) and DGG (talk) for all your hard work and concern about the TSNWA site. I really appreciate your comments and suggestions on how to write a NPOV article. Thanks also for giving me the benefit of the doubt and for throwing in a positive comment from time to time. I already feel completely out of my depth in this and like an idiot for accusing you of vandalism because of my ignorance. Your kindness in the face of my misunderstanding means a lot to me. I hope I can help you rewrite an appropriately spare article. Please take a look at what I have posted here on the site and let me know how far off the mark I am... JudithRobinsonLevine (talk) 04:21, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Agreement/consensus about what is already in this article:

1)

2)

3)

4)

5)

Disputed information already in this article

1)

2)

3)

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What Users: Bstone and DGG wish to include or exclude in this article:

1)Judith just rewrote the intro section to be heavy on the non-notable and non-pertinent information. As it currently reads it yet again violates NPOV and reads as an advertising piece. I am readding the COI tag. Bstone (talk) 18:04, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for weighing in Bstone (talk). Do you think you could be more specific? Could you use this framework to communicate about improving the site? I'm pretty sure that slapping warnings on a site without even attempting to reply to specific requests for advice needed by a novice is not going to improve the site one little bit... nor encourage any novices to learn more about how to do so themselves. Could you take a look at other non-prof sites and come back with some positive suggestions, please?JudithRobinsonLevine (talk) 18:51, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Judith, the intro section is meant to be short and sweet. The edited it to be long and very redundant. As well you put a lot of information in there about fund raising, which is not relevant, and redundant information about the building. There are places for that- in the body of the article. Bstone (talk) 18:57, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

OK. This was helpful. I cleaned it up and removed the warning. See what you think.JudithRobinsonLevine (talk) 20:33, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Judith, the intro is much improved now. However, in the future, please do not remove warnings. They should exist until the community discuses the situation and decides it can be removed. Bstone (talk) 21:41, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

1. Bstone, thanks so much for your advice and your positive cooperation. Guy has just erased everything we worked on last night. I guess I am at a loss to understand his idea of NPOV. Perhaps you could encourage him to use this framework? 2. Also, can you advise about the quote from Jonathan Sarna? He wrote me an email yesterday. He is a very well-known Jewish historian. He suggests in his email to me that I use it as the reference. 3. It is not common for a Jewish organization to participate in outreach programs in cooperation with Christian and secular non-profs. These inclusive policies are part of the notability of Temple Shalom. So, I would like to add in the following section. Please comment? JudithRobinsonLevine (talk) 06:36, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Community Outreach

Temple Shalom of Northwest Arkansas subscribes to the tenets of Faith in America and welcomes the involvement and support of all Jews, their spouses, partners and friends.

Temple Shalom supports a number of community projects and activities such as Habitat for Humanity, Faith in Action and the Peace at Home Family Shelter.

JudithRobinsonLevine (talk) 06:04, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

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What Users Jacobadlerarkansas and JudithRobinsonLevine wish to include or exclude in this article:

1) Still need citation from Jonathan Sarna. Will email him when the site is presentable... he was quoted in a newspaper article that is not online... please advise about how to cite him directly. JudithRobinsonLevine (talk) 04:22, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, you can't cite him directly; personal correspondence does not qualify as a reliable source for Wikipedia's purposes. Jayjg ^(talk) 22:24, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

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Agreement/consensus about what should be put into this article:

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Agreement/consensus about what should be kept out of this article:

1) I don't think the mission statement or the past presidents list are vital to this article. Would welcome a ==Core philosophy== section as IZAK suggests instead of the mission statement... JudithRobinsonLevine (talk) 02:43, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

In what way is your mission or core philosophy different from other synagogues? With sources, please. Guy (Help!) 11:34, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

As I said, I don't think this is vital to the article. I was just encouraging IZAK in his line of thinking in case anyone wanted to elaborate on it at some point. What do you think about the rewrite above?JudithRobinsonLevine (talk) 19:30, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

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References

Email Citation?

Dears,

I emailed Brandeis University historian Jonathan Sarna who emailed back, "Hi -- I remember the reporter's call and my quote, but unfortunately I have no idea where the quote appeared. If you like, just cite me based on this email. Best of luck with the article -- JDS". I have searched the Cite page to no avail and would love some guidance on how to cite this quote. Any suggestions? Also, IZAK advised me that I could edit the article making sure to present a NPOV, so I hope I did. Unfortunately, I inadvertently erased the warnings also. I don't want to do anything wronger than I have already done, so please advise. Thanks for all your hard work.

JudithRobinsonLevine (talk) 18:09, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

• No. No, no, no. Please don't edit the article directly, your COI is too strong and too evident in your edits, and we can't use primary sources such as emails. What we need is objective coverage in independent reliable sources. We cannot make value judgements on what is or is not significant, we assess what the independent sources say, we weigh their reliability and then we reflect the real-world consensus view. We don't try to influence the real-world view, we do not play any part in campaigns or fund raising drives. Guy (Help!) 22:08, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

• Guy, please participate in the positive manner established by IZAK (talk) in the framework above. Granted, I am a novice, but I am now a Wikipedian and as such, there is no US and THEM. Your NPOV feedback is always welcome. Please refrain from biting me. The work you undid was posted by me, but a result of hard work byBstone (talk) also. JudithRobinsonLevine (talk) 06:37, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

• Judith, I have been a Wikipedia user for a long time, I am an admin here and I do understand policy tolerably well. Your POV shines through in your every word, and you should not be editing the article directly. It is absolutely clear that you have an agenda, which is fine, but it is not in line with Wikipedia's mission and core policies. There is and "us and them" here, as WP:COI makes plain. Please do not Wikilawyer here, your presence on Wikipedia is solely driven by your desire to promote your synagogue and its building project. That does not make you a Wikipedian (actually you are a single purpose account not a Wikipedian as such), and it absolutely does not allow you to ignore advice from people who have been here a long time and seen this kind of debate many tens of times with other promoters of other subject institutions. Wikipedia is not here to promote your synagogue or assist its fundraising drive, if Bstone wants to edit the article then Bstone can edit the article, you should not edit the article because you have a serious conflict of interest and your past edits to the article are problematic. Your input on the talk page is fine, but we are not on a deadline. The only person who cares about boosting the content which supports your fundraising drive, is you. We don't care. We really don't. So we'll put suggested content in when we're good and ready. Your unseemly rush to get your POV reflected is really not acceptable, so please do not do it again. Guy (Help!) 11:43, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

• Dear Guy, I didn't know you were an ADMIN! Silly me. So, as an admin, don't you want to subscribe to the important tenets of Wikipedia and stop these personal attacks, and respect WP:BITE and WP:AGF ? best, JudithRobinsonLevine (talk) 06:04, 20 March 2008 (UTC)