Talk:Paxy Paxman

Name change?

Bit of an interesting one that I haven't seen anything about online, and I only noticed when I was selecting my AFLW Fantasy team. Paxman is now listed as "Paxy Paxman" on the official Melbourne website. I'm not yet sure whether we would apply MOS:DEADNAME to this article, but it's clear enough that she wanted a change in official media.

Thoughts? Gibbsy^spin 04:21, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

@Totallynotarandomalt69 did you even read this first before going ahead with the move? Surely it’s not just as simple as that? Gibbsy^spin 11:41, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

I'll own up and say no, I didn't read it but I don't think it's very contentious (happy to open it up to further discussion here)

Player wants to be referred to by a different name which the club has reflected, seems very simple

Obviously for different reasons but think about when Willie Rioli was known as Junior Rioli for a period - announced, club made change, media followed, easy move here Totallynotarandomalt69 (talk) 12:01, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Yeah but we had a discussion on WT:AFL on Rioli first too. There is a bit more nuance around it than just making the move unannounced I think; this is a top 5 in league games player we are talking about here.

For instance, looking at those tweets, it appears she wants to be known simply as “Paxy” (a la Madonna) and that the “Paxy Paxman” usage is only because the league/Champion Data/broadcasters can’t appear to handle mononyms. Do we then know if her pronouns have changed? Is there any source better than just an updated club profile page? Gibbsy^spin 23:50, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately the only other sources I can find are some tweets form journos, although I've seen nothing indicating a pronoun change Totallynotarandomalt69 (talk) 00:51, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Is this a GENDERID issue or just an "ordinary" name change? (Sorry, I don't have a Twitter account so I can't read tweets without a direct link). – Teratix ₵ 01:04, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

There’s nothing to indicate this is WP:GENDERID just yet, and I wasn’t listening out for specifically for pronouns during last night’s game. Here’s the link to the tweet (there’s some contextual tweets above it too) – I wonder if we could try and get a hold

of that email? Gibbsy^spin 01:35, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for that, but I can't even scroll up to the contextual tweets without an account... thanks Elon.

OK, if it doesn't seem to be GENDERID (and, actually, given the Melbourne profile still uses she/her in the career summary I think that's unlikely), this move is premature and we should wait until more RS weigh in. See conventions on self-published name changes. – Teratix ₵ 04:17, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

AAP and News Corp are both now rolling with 'Paxy Paxman' but I would assume that is off the back of the league-wide directive that was supposedly emailed the other week as per this tweet. One of those other contextual tweets suggests the mononym. I still wouldn't rule out GENDERID at this stage as we haven't yet seen Paxman referred to by pronoun in any articles (those club profile bios can sometimes take a little time to be updated). For what it's worth, AustralianFootball.com and Demonwiki have also made the 'Paxy Paxman' change, but obviously they don't have guidelines to abide by and can make their own editorial decisions.

I think we should wait it out for further guidance as to whether this is GENDERID, which would make the change a lot easier (although there is still the matter of sourcing whether the page name should simply be 'Paxy' vs. 'Paxy Paxman', the latter of which appears to be used more for technical reasons. I agree the move is premature, but should we revert it or not? Gibbsy^spin 01:55, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Given the move isn't uncontested, I've reverted and set up a formal move discussion so we can get a few more people to weigh in. – Teratix ₵ 06:49, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 4 September 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus that the name change has been taken up by sources. (closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 16:25, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

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Karen Paxman → Paxy Paxman – Player has recently requested to go by a new name. – Teratix ₵ 06:47, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose, somewhat begrudgingly, per WP:SPNC at least until we see further usage and information in the coming weeks/months. As mentioned in the above discussion, there is no suggestion yet as to this being a WP:GENDERID move, therefore we should revert to WP:COMMONNAME. As an indication, Karen Paxman is currently at 11,900 results vs Paxy Paxman at 1,560 results, and Paxman has used the Karen Paxman name for 64 out of her 65 league games. That said, the AFLW is a very progressive and inclusive community and I am certain that this new name will become the 'new normal' – and we should follow down that path. If anything, I think the biggest decision will soon be whether this page gets moved simply to Paxy as per these tweets suggesting the preferred use of a mononym. I do feel a bit uncomfortable about opposing the move given it appears to go against someone's personal request. As it stands, though, if we are to go by the WP guidelines, I think we should wait it out until such time as we have more information to support a move. Gibbsy^spin 11:08, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

  Just a comment that the Official AFLW 2023 guide has Paxy Paxman in both the prose and squad listing for MFC. All references throughout the records sections have been amended that way too. Storm machine (talk) 05:29, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

• Weak support - this recent article on Paxman's absence in Round 2 uses she/her pronouns in quotes from the club, indicating the change is not WP:GENDERID but rather WP:SPNC. However, given the widespread adoption of the new name from all and sundry (media outlets, the league, the club), there doesn't appear to be any ongoing conjecture or debate as to how Paxman should be referred to. Therefore, I am altering my position to a weak support. Gibbsy^spin 23:20, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.