Talk:Morin khuur

Photos available

69.3.70.175 00:04, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC): A photo of a morin khuur played by Yo-Yo Ma and of a closeup of the head of the instrument is available for download at:

http://press.silkroadproject.org/photos.html

According to the website:

These photos are for editorial and promotional use only in newspapers, news magazines, trade publications and broadcast media. Unless otherwise indicated, all images remain the property of The Silk Road Project, Inc. You must include the photo credit whenever using these. A caption is provided for your use as well.

http://press.silkroadproject.org/grfx/photos/artists/ma2.zip (Yo-Yo Ma, morin khuur, ©2001 Cylla von Tiedemann)

http://press.silkroadproject.org/grfx/photos/instruments/morin_khuur.zip (The morin khuur [MOO rin HOOR], a Mongolian horsehead fiddle, held by Yo-Yo Ma who performs the instrument in Kayhan Kalhor's Blue as the Turquoise Night of Neyshabur. ©2001 Cylla von Tiedemann)

Name of Entry

Should this entry be renamed to "Morin khuur"? Since the instrument is of Mongolian origin, and is of more significance to Mongolian culture than to Chinese culture, it seems that the Mongolian name should be the primary designation rather than the Chinese name. -- Takwish 18:48, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree with it and also wants to ask that I don't understand why it's in chinese-related articles project? Better to be a mongolian-related article, wouldn't it? --Dolugen 11:23, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Because majority of Mongols are Chinese.

Karolus 2007-07-04

Is that so? Dolugen 04:03, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

No, they have different languages (altaic vs. sino-tibetan) and different cultures (nomadic vs. farmer).

Mongolians are most certainly not Chinese. Granted the majority of Mongols in the world live in Inner Mongolia, but they are ethnic Mongols who have maintained their language and culture. Amongst the predominantly Chakhar Mongols of Inner Mongolia the Morin Khuur is fundamentally the same instrument as amongst Khalkha Mongol majority of the Mongolian Nation (were it is never called matouqin). Was the person who wrote that comment poorly informed or just ignorant?

RESPONSE TO ABOVE: If the "Chuurqin" predates the "Morinkhuur", then it should stay as a separate article. If the Chuurqin is a Chinese-Mongolian variant derived from the Morinkhuur, then maybe it would be ok to merge with Morinkhuur. Despite all the "Altaic vs Sino-Tibetan" racially and politically motivated dichotomy, especially Euro-centric "scholars" out to distort Asian culture and history, the neolithic identity of Han (Chinese) people and Mongolian people (linguistically distinguished under the Altaic and Sino-Tibetan naming-classifications), are ethnically one-the-same. After the advent of Chinese civilization, did the advanced agrarian civilization (Gōngsūn Xuānyuán being the venerated founder of the Chinese civilization) and those remaining nomadic begin to diverge, becoming increasingly culturally-distinct, and their languages as well. I don't know the answer to this, but I think the Chinese of the Tang Dynasty were using the spike-fiddle about 400-500 years before the advent of the Mongolian-national identity and unification under Genghis Khan, making it possible that the "Chuurqin" may have predated the "Morinkhuur". Regardless, it's generally accepted that the spike-fiddle was adopted from amongst the "Wuhu" people, who were among the nomadic people of China and Mongolian regions during Southern and Northern Dynasties period, possibly related to the ancient Khitans. The modern day Daur people are the culturally distinct descendants of the Khitans who have not been assimilated into the Han Chinese, Jin Jurchen, or other ethnic groups. Culturally and linguistically speaking, the Daur-Khitan people are apparently closer relative to the Mongols than the Han Chinese are. The Han Chinese have a VAST array of spike-fiddle variants classified under the general name of Huqin spike-fiddle instruments. I would last like to point out here, that SPIKE-FIDDLE should be its own article, and not confused/mixed with the Rebab (from the 9th century), which Euro-centricists and other biased editors have distorted thus far here on Wikipedia; the same with Rong people, which should not be classified under the more-specific tribal name of "Xirong", although I'll have to let these go for now. Got Milked (talk) 12:15, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Adding to my above statements regarding the Chuurqin predating the Morinkhuur, and the relationship between the Khitans and that of the Han Chinese and Mongols: I'm also pointing out that the Khitan or related "nationality", is determined by linguists to speak a closer-to Mongolian type of language than a closer-to Mandarin type of language; but the Khitans established the Liao Dynasty, incorporating many Han Chinese customs and Chinese-character based Old Khitan script. But this was after the Tang Dynasty, however, about 300 years before the appearance of the Mongol Empire. Got Milked (talk) 11:25, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Marco Polo reference

The reference about Marco Polo's getting one of these instruments needs to be sourced. Badagnani 10:48, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

External Link Edit

As the webmaster for the ParisMonSantaro Mongolian Research Center, based out of Ulaanbaatar, we would sincerely like to have permission to link our website to the Morin Khuur wikipedia article. We have a gallery of beautiful morin khuurs on our web site, as well as contact information for professional morin khuur craftsmen who live and work in Mongolia. It would benefit those whom are interested in learning about the Morin Khuur to have our link readily accessible. [http://www.mongolzuuch.mn Mongolian Studies Research Center] syferia 16:37, 28th March, 2007

Wikipedia is not a sales directory. --Latebird 09:06, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Reply

Thank you for your quick reply. We are a research center. Also, we are working to empower local Mongolian artisans by sharing information about their crafting skills, morin khuur history and art, and sharing their contact information. This is of clear and direct relevance to the Morin Khuur article on Wikipedia. Morin Khuurs are carefully hand crafted by skillfull local Mongolian luthiers, who by nature maintain their own business. Again, please reconsider your decision. Perhaps an appropriate link would be a link to our Morin khuur history page, which is especially of great value to wikipedia users. Great care and knowledge of several languages has been taken to translate information from Uighur script, Mongolian, and Chinese manuscripts about the Morin Khuur into English. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.131.245.202 (talk) 04:31, 30 March 2007 (UTC).

merge from Chuurqin

The article Chuurqin offers no real information about the instrument it claims to describe, leaving us basically with a dictionary entry. If it really is a different instrument, then it should at least be possible to describe the differences. Otherwise, no information would be lost by simply mentioning its apparently older name(s) here. It may well be that we have a similar situation here as between "Uyghurjin script" and "Mongolian script", which also turned out to be the same thing, only seen in a different historical context. --Latebird (talk) 11:05, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I hope someboby to improve it:

• Chuurqin is in a counter-trapezoid shape, however the Morin khuur is in the trapezoid shape;
• Chuurqin has a lower sound than Morin huur;
• Using a Morin huur you can simulate the voice of Chuurqin, but it's still not the "original-taste" of Chuurqin;
• The difference between dörbön chikhtei huur and Sihu (instrument) is smaller than the difference between Chuurqin and Morin huur, in China

  a Mongol using a Sihu to play Mongolian song, but no professional player play Morin huur for those place they need Chuurqin, e.g. Bayan Baolige and Chi Bulag. In fact, dörbön chikhtei huur is merely an alias of Sihu. Ask Mongols.

--虞海 (Yú Hǎi) (talk) 04:02, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

If you have a source for those differences, then please add that information to the article. "Ask Mongols" isn't really helpful if there are no sources. --Latebird (talk) 15:32, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Isn't the CCTV program a citation? --虞海 (Yú Hǎi) (talk) 15:18, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Where does either article cite CCTV? (I assume that means China Central Television) --Latebird (talk) 20:10, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

This video is cut from CCTV-Music channel. --虞海 (Yú Hǎi) (talk) 05:02, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

That only answers the smaller part of my question. There's also the difficulty that the video is most likely a copyvio, so we can't link to it as a reference. Generally, a text reference would be much preferrable. But even besides that, as long as no explanation is in the articles, what exactly do you want to cite? --Latebird (talk) 19:22, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I trust that Yú Hǎi is speaking in good faith. But even so, the article Chuurqin is too short to exist all by itself. Wikipedia's rationale on merging states : "If a page is very short and is unlikely to be expanded within a reasonable amount of time, it often makes sense to merge it with a page on a broader topic". So I also suggest we merge Chuurqin into Morin Khuur. Lnemekhbayar (talk) 15:10, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

First lines

Hi there, I just added 'horsehead fiddle' in first line, and hope that that is okay. In my humble opninion, this makes the article more accessible for readers who are new to this subject (such as myself). The term is also used (in addition to the name Morin khuur, of course) in articles such as Long song, Altan Urag and Music of Mongolia. If it is not accepted I interfere with this subject, as a lay-person, I understand! Laurier (talk) 08:13, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

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