Talk:Italo disco

Artist links

Please watch what you link, because several of the artists that were linked, were incorrectly linked to other meanings of the name/word. It is unnecessary to link every artist, given that an existing article on each is very unlikely. I think the artists list should be edited down to only a few of the bigger, more popular ones and the rest can go in the "list of Italo disco artists". Milk 04:35, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Grammar and robot themes

Attention Vorash - I am familiar with English grammar, I'm from the U.S. But obviously you didn't realize that I was not using quotation marks in the Italo Disco article, I was using the Italic marks so the songs appear slanted, to make the article more appealing to the eye. Also, very many Italo songs have lyrics about robots and space, including some songs which are listed in the article itself and the List of Italo Disco Artists like "Lectric Workers - Robot is Systematic", Dee D. Jackson "Automatic Lover", "Creatures - Other World Robots", "Models - JR Robot". I find it very hard to belive that you have never heard Italo songs about robots. I suggest you listen to the Cybernetic Broadcasting System and learn more about Italo before writing an article on it. Milk 06:36, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

about robots - you are not just mentioning it you writing "the major themes of italo"...MAJOR ? ......its not acceptable........

about Valerie Dore - why to write "BEST" ?? ................you can write "good" or "one of the best"........something like that...........Vorash 06:54, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Ok, the page is looking good now. I gathered most of my information from Euroflash, Ishkur, and here. I'd like to say again, that I think the artists list at the bottom should be edited down to only a few of the most popular artists/songs, because it's starting to get very long. All are already listed in the "List of Italo Disco Artists" page, so it isn't necessary to have a bunch of the same ones. If no one objects I will edit the list down and expand the other one. - Milk 01:37, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

objecting !! ...we have so far a lot of space !! .and its also very hard to decide which artists are the best ...:))) Vorash 01:40, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Italo disco

We should discuss and decide what we want to do with this page. I read today many articles about "Italo disco", and as i understood there are large quantities of general public that actually think that "Euro disco" and "Italo disco" are the same thing. I also think that its impossible to define "Italo disco" as a style of Italian artists only , because music genre describes music not a geographical location and if artists from other counties made the same or similar music their music can be also described as an "Italo disco". Meantime i did a redirect from "euro disco" to "italo disco", but we should decide about "italo disco" definition, and in any case "Euro Disco" artists should be represented in some place, or in "Italo Disco" article or in separate "Euro Disco" article. Vorash 00:25, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I got your message about Italo vs. Euro Disco. Well I'm reading that people say Italo lasted from around '78 until '86. The stuff after '86 then became Eurodisco/dance. There's also more info here: Euroflash - eurodisco, that explains the difference. So it's not really the same thing. I think Italo is generally more happy and fun sounding, and Eurodisco/dance is more serious and focused on the beat (it also has more of a house feel to it, rather than disco).

The majority of Italo Disco is by Italian artists/producers but I agree Italo is a style that applied to artists in the rest of Europe and North America too. Thats clear in the article already though. I dont think you needed to change the notice above the list of artists, it was better with "non-Italian artists are indicated". The sentence you wrote is not very good grammar. Please try to consulate someone before you write additions in English, because many of your edits are confusing. From your profile I see that you live in Israel and your level of English is only "intermediate", so it makes sense and I'm not trying to insult you or anything. Also, the external links you added at the bottom are not good sites. Most of them look cheesy/cheap and do not provide much new, useful information than the links and info that is already here. We shouldn't link every site, if people want to look it up they can find it.Last thing, please when you work on an article, combine your edits. Instead of making a bunch of little changes in a row, you can use the "show preview" button to check what you've done and see if you left anything out. It's common courtesy to other users, and makes things neater and nicer. - Milk 03:10, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I dont understand what you talking about ?? I didn't change any notice, i added it bymyself to article. The notice that you mentioned is in "List of artists" not in article. There was not any notice in article. Also about links you very funny , you are using this site for writing article (as you said above) and after that saying that this site is cheap and useless ??????? About edits , you are talking about edits of some 30+ hours , do you really expect from me to use a "preview" for 30 hours ????????????

YOu also TOTALLY WRONG in saying "Italo lasted from around '78 until '86. The stuff after '86 then became Eurodisco/dance". I don't understand how you can write such a thing ????? One of the most popular and most successful(120mil albums sold) Disco groups was German Modern Talking and they became famous in Decemeber 1984 with " You're my heart, you're my soul "!! One of the most popular and successful "Old" Disco groups in the World was German Boney M and they became famous in 1978 !!! Probably the most popular and most successful Disco group in the World and in Europe was Swedish ABBA and it became famous in 1974 !! So how could it be that "stuff after '86 became Eurodisco" if euro disco started at least from 1974 and new synth-Euro-Disco started at least in 1984 ?????? Vorash 00:48, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Also don't post your messages on my talk page without any connection to text that i posted on your talk page !!! If i started the topic on your page it should be continued there, so other people can see what was posted before your message.Vorash 01:38, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunatly you probably even didn't bother to read a "cheap" article on "chello.pl" which probably the oldest "Italo Disco" article on the Internet(created in 1999) and clearly states that LaBIonda is a "Prehistory" of Italo , but it was not an Italo !!! Vorash 04:36, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) YOu should also read German Wikipedia Lnk1 and Link2.They clearly state the difference between "Italian Disco" which started in mid 70s and synthesizer-driven "Italo Disco" which started in 1980-1982. Vorash 05:29, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I base my writings off of a general consensus from different people on the forum of Cybernetic Broadcasting System (along with what I gather as a summary from other websites). People there are mostly from Europe and they know what they are talking about. There, they said Italo "generally" lasted from 78-86. Yes there were others after 86, but it wasn't such a big deal by then. So I am not "totally wrong". ABBA is not Italo, they are straight Disco/Pop. About the "preview" button, try and make your best effort at using it, I have been on Wikipedia for hours and have combined edits into one posting. Making 10 edits in a row and only changing one thing at a time is not acceptable. Also, you yourself have stated that Italo Disco is not just Italians, so why would you move non-Italian artists to Eurodisco? That makes no sense, and you did not ask before doing that. It is courteous to ask before making major changes to the article, as I have done before. I feel like you are making changes to the article based on your personla beliefs and making it fit your description, which should not be done. You need to have a wide variety of opinions and information on there. - Milk 20:51, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I didn't moved the artists to Eurodisco !! I just removed them from list in article but they continue to stay in "List of artist" !. I just did it because of your complaints that list in article is too BIG ! Vorash 23:52, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) Also if you want to write a serious article you shold listen to songs by yourself and to decide what was Italian Disco and what was an "Italo". La Bionda's "One for me, one for you" from 1978 is a pure classical Disco.

Also about Preview , you cant use it for Hours because if somebody else changes an article during this time all your edits will disappear (because wikipedia script will not allow you to save your edits after someone else changed the page ) !!! Thats why {{inuse}} template was invented. YOu probabaly don't know it. But i can't use this template 24 hours a day, because i make only small edits.Vorash 00:12, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I listened for some 50 Italian disco songs of period 1978-1981 and i didn't find there even one Italian song that can be called "electronic dance". Only songs from 1982 are "electronic dance", so if your claim is true please give me some examples of songs Vorash 08:26, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I also don't understand about what courtesy you talking about, you didn't ask my permission when you removed artists added by me in January 2005 ....And what is this sentence "making changes to the article based on your personla beliefs and making it fit your description, which should not be done" about ?? Didn't you create all this article based ONLY on your personal beliefs ??? So far 95% of the text in the article represent only your personal beliefs.Vorash 09:22, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Vorash, you are making point-of-view edits. Why would you mention Kraftwerk and Vangelis starting electronic music in the Italo disco article. Yes they did create the base for it, but they are already mentioned in many other articles on electronic music. This article is only supposed to be about italo directly. Same with mentioning Michael Jackson and Madonna?! They do not apply to italo music whatsoever. Italo did not start 1982 like you think. If you look at most websites, they'll say that it started at the end of the 70s in '78-'79. Also, it is relevant to mention the creator of the term Italo Disco, even though it may not be traceable, it is mentioned on several, credible websites that he did "officially" create it. You are being immature in your editing. And for the last time, you need to improve your English grammar before you write articles on the internet. Leave it to the native English speakers first. - Milk 06:01, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It's not necessary to mention a names, but it should be mentioned that Italo-Disco as well as the whole modern Electronic pop music originated from Electropop of 70s. Mentioning Moroder's "first song" is incorrect, because nobody knows for sure what was/were first Italo song/songs. Same for 1982, not necessary to mention a names, but electronic dance music popularity in 1982 should be mentioned, because it helped to Italo-Disco music artists. About 1978 , i didn't see even one site that says that Italo-Disco started in 1978. They say that Italian Disco became popular starting from 1978 La Bionda's song, but nobody say that it Italo-Disco was originated it that year. Many sites say that true "Italo-Disco" sound apeared between 1981 and 1982 and they also give an examples, but your opinion is not based on any examples of songs. This article is about synth-pop disco, not about Disco of 70s.Vorash 06:34, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

As of ZYX i think it could be mentioned that term "Italo-Disco" became well known in Europe due to ZYX. Vorash 06:58, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

And for a last time, stop posting you messages on my talk page, without any connection to topic that is discussed here on Italo Disco talk page !!!!! Vorash 07:06, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

La Bionda's "One for me, one for you" is pure Disco of 70s. If you sure that Italo Disco started in 1978 why you can't provide an examples of songs ???You prefer to base your opinion on some "Amateur" sites, that you call "Credible" ,but i think it's not enough for writing a serious article. Vorash 09:46, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

First of all, you were the one who mentioned Moroders song, and now you changed your mind. I think that was a good addition, because The Chase is synthpop-disco. Secondly, I am posting on your talk page, with a connection to this page. I wrote the headline "italo article" so you'd know, as other people have done. Why are you getting mad for that? You posted on my talk page. There isn't one year that a genre can just start all of a sudden. They slowly start being created over 2 or 3 years, which is why italo started to begin around 78. But it only really got going in 82-83. Look at this site: [1], they mention that La Bionda, Righeira, Azoto, and Vivien Vee released stuff in 78-79. Yes, it does sound more like traditional disco rather than synth/italo but it still is the beginnings. We shouldn't overlook that. - Milk 15:40, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If you say that it sounds more like like traditional Disco why you so insist to mention it in article ??? This is not an article about Italian Disco it's an article about style Italo Disco !! I can agree to mention Lia Bionda if you will write clearly in article that La Bionda was a Disco !! But i can't agree to mention La Bionda as a starting point of Italo Disco, because its not true. Vorash 16:32, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If your theory about Italo development from 1978 to 1982 is true, there sould be a songs that proving it. I listened to all songs on chello.pl starting from 1978 and up to 1982 but non of them are Itallo ! YOu theory should be supported by facts.I think that Italians didn't invented synth-Disco,i think they copied it in 1982 from other artists in Europe and US. For example British Imagination produced in 1981 hits like "Flashback" that were very similar to Euro-Disco/Italo-Disco songs. Vorash 20:11, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Vorash, try listening "Rock 'N' Roll Robot" by Camerini (1981), "Rumore" by Raffaella Carrà (1979), "Triangolo" by Renato Zero (1979), "One for you, one for me" by La Bionda (1978), "Areknames" by Battiato (1972) and so on. That's considered Italian disco dance (or Italo Disco). --Jack2008 (talk) 05:50, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Beginning of Italo

now the article is making sense. italo started with disco groups in the late 70s like munich machine - "space warrior", 1979 / neftali's beast - "land of the drums", 1980 / o.r.s. - body to body LP, 1978 / paper doll - "get down boy", 1979 / kano - "i'm ready", 1980 / sylvi foster - "if you are master", 1980 / la bionda "one for me", peter jacques "fire night dance", azoto "san salvador", giorgio moroder like they said they were all influences for the real italo, when it began in 1982. then it became full italo with the synthpop style. [unsigned by User:Milk from IP 68.23.98.212]]

Italo Disco "style" /term

Italo disco cannot be a style !!!!! How could it be that Kano's "I'm Ready", Koto's "Dragon's Legend" Giorgio Moroder's "Chase", Baby's Gang's "Disco Maniac", Lectric Workers's "The Garden" and Fancy's "Lady of ice" are all the exact same music "style" ??????Vorash 17:06, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If Italo disco is not a style, then it cannot undergo a revival. So, which is more appropriate: to call it a style or to say that the music of Legowelt et al is "also called Italo disco"?—Theo (Talk) 28 June 2005 10:58 (UTC)

"Legowelt" is not "Italo" at all. Its more like electro-house. Streaming "Italo" on the radio/web radio and playing it clubs is not a revival. "Italo" was played in clubs and on the dance radio stations in many countries in 90s too. The passage about 2000 "Italo" revival is wrong. Maybe there is a "revival" in USA and UK, but in Europe and in other countries this music was played in 90s too. Vorash 28 June 2005 13:03 (UTC)

I have rephrased that text slightly and merged it into the paragraph about 1998-2005. I have used the phrase "renewed interest" although I am unclear why that is not synonymous with "revival".—Theo (Talk) 28 June 2005 13:20 (UTC)

I think that important info should be added to history of "Italo Disco" term. "Italo Disco" term originally described an Italian dance music, because "The Best Of Italo Disco vol. 1" included only Italian disco songs from 1982. But in their further volumes ZYX started to mix Italian artists with other European artists, even so the majority of songs in these compilations were Italian. That's how all this Italo-Euro confusion began, and thats why people started to use "Italo-Disco" term as synonym for word "Euro Disco".Vorash 28 June 2005 14:29 (UTC)

I think we should try to avoid telling people what does it mean exactly......we should only describe a story in article and give them possible meanings of word "Italo-Disco". This whole "Italo-Disco" issue is very complicated and confusing, and nobody knows for sure what it is !. Some people think that "Italo" is a "style", some think that "Italo" is a "feel", some may say that "Italo" refers to Italian artists only, some actually think that Italo and Euro are the same thing, some may say that it's a "trade mark" of ZYX. So the best solution will be to present in article different POVs. Vorash 28 June 2005 21:17 (UTC)

Lead

I think the article should be reverted to the original opening paragraph. Then once into the article we can discuss whether it is a marketing term or not, and other confusions (besides, as of now that info is repeated). Even if it was a marketing term invented by ZYX, the same goes for "electroclash" today. Larry Tee invented it, and people started using it as a term for the genre/style. With the revival issue, people obviously did play it through the 90's but a "revival" constitutes a large, broadbased, renewed interest. Many different sites say Legowelt incorporates an italo style to his music, which upon listening, i agree. As for italo being a style, true many artists within the genre may sound quite different than others but like with an genre, there are different types or "flavors" that go with different artists. There are sub-genres that form, like with "spacesynth". So italo is just the broad, collective term for all the artists that have an italo style. The things that make up italo are listed in the article. If the song has a disco-type beat, has lots of synths, maybe has vocoders, is about love, robots, space, has the catchy melody, maybe has female singers during the chorus, then it pretty much is italo. All of these are traits of the genre. - Milk 3 July 2005 17:36 (UTC)

Rather than simply reverting, how about suggesting your ideal opening paragraph here on the talk page. Then we can discuss it and reach a consensus so that we avoid getting into any edit war. The lead paragraph(s) should provide a summary of what follows.—Theo (Talk) 3 July 2005 18:11 (UTC)

Don't you understand, Milk, that your description " disco-type beat (4/4), has lots of synths (electronic), maybe has vocoders, is about love or robots or space, has the catchy melody, maybe has female singers during the chorus" is suitable for every dance song in 80s-90s-00s ? So all dance songs are "Italo" ? Thats what you saying ? Vorash 4 July 2005 01:16 (UTC)

So, what does differentiate "Italo Disco" from any other musical grouping?—Theo (Talk) 4 July 2005 11:37 (UTC)

Only place:Italy and time:1980s and of cause it should be electronic dance music. - I can't find any other parameters. Vorash 4 July 2005 12:42 (UTC)

Dance 80s genre: electronic dance music of 80s. (according to dance music article "Dance music is music composed, played, or both, specifically to accompany social dancing.")

• Euro disco (sub genre of Dance 80s): electronic dance music made in Europe in 80s.
  • Italo disco (sub genre of Euro disco) : electronic dance music made in Italy in 80s.

Vorash 4 July 2005 13:19 (UTC)

So how does one handle the several non-Italian bands that purport to be creating Italo Disco in the late 1990s and early 2000s? Is there a different term for this? —Theo (Talk) 4 July 2005 16:13 (UTC)

Can you please give some examples of songs from 1990s and 2000s that in your opinion are an "Italo" ? Vorash 4 July 2005 16:56 (UTC)

According to the article "releases in 1998 by Legowelt, and in 2000 by Jeans Team, Bangkok Impact and Hong Kong Counterfeit were among those that fuelled renewed interest". I have heard none of these but it seems that someone considers them to be "Italo".—Theo (Talk) 4 July 2005 18:19 (UTC)

Well,i will try to listen to them. Vorash 4 July 2005 18:25 (UTC)

Well the opening paragraph that was there before seemed very good. It said that Italo was an electronic dance music genre, popular in the 80's, with most of the artists coming from Italy, but as stated does not necessarily mean they were all from Italy. In the beginning Italo was used for only Italian artists but soon after was used for other European artists and North American ones too. My description above does not describe all 80's dance music because the major difference is that Italo sounded very 80's BUT had more of a disco beat, rather than the other synth-pop, dance beats. It's hard to describe in words. You just have to hear the songs and then you'll get a picture of what makes up the sound. I think we're just making everything too complicated. The article is an almost perfect description & history of Italo except for the new opening paragraph. I have heard the artists mentioned under the "renewal" and they do have Italo stylings. - Milk 5 July 2005 18:28 (UTC)

I have now had a listen and there is a commonality of sound that suggests to me that Italo Disco is a style, albeit a loose one. — Theo (Talk) 5 July 2005 19:19 (UTC)

Some songs of Jeans Team are an electro, "The Floor" and "Traveller" of Bangkok Impact is also electro. Discogs members think that this music is a combination of styles like Electro-Disco, Electro-Synthpop. Allmusic says Legowelt: Electronica, Electro-Techno, Neo-Electro, Jeans Team:Neo-Electro Vorash 5 July 2005 19:55 (UTC)

I reverted the intro to a previous one like we said. Is this okay with everyone? I also think that changing the picture to the original Best of Italo Disco, Vol. 1 (which can be found on Discogs) would be cool, but it's not a big deal. - Milk 18:11, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Seems good to me. I fixed the 1983/1984 switch that was also lost with the reversion. I agree that the first compilation would be a better illustration. —Theo (Talk) 18:50, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Actually I changed the date. On Discogs it lists the comp as coming out in 1983 but I've seen it elswhere as being 1984, so I'm sure which one is correct. It's not a big deal either way. - Milk 04:01, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

GA Re-Review and In-line citations

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Since this has not been address, I am delisting this article as a GA. Teemu08 07:09, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Enduring Italo radio station

Proppibly the only Radio station on earth 'Radio Stad Den Haag' that never stopt playing 24/24h Italo tracks since the 80's: http://www.italobeachparty.nl/_sgt/m2_1.htm feydey 20:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Clarification

I think substantial work needs to be done in clarifying Disco (that happened to be by European artists such as Abba)/ Italo Disco/ HiNRG and Euro Disco. The lines of this lineage are horribly muddied. I think Lime would take offense to being called ItaloDisco as they were Canadian and their music has NONE of the strained English that earmarks the genre. Furthermore, Lime's lineage is then muddied to the extent that they can't be seen as rightful influence on the emerging house scene that they truly were (study Angel Eyes and On The Grid if you have doubts about this). Also please see the Italo House page for distinction regarding usage of bad English in the music, as this defining factor was also present in most of the true Italo Disco records. Also, don't believe everything you read and be careful about assuming musical lineages based on the liner notes of exploitive compilation cd's. I have my doubts about zyx genuinely labeling any form of music, as it's not exactly the most respected label in the world, you know? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.69.136.203 (talk) 22:31, 11 December 2006 (UTC).

Dance music

Wow I am astounded by this article !!

Most people in america were calling many bands listed here as "Dance Music" in the early 80's, a name that was used expressively to differentiate the new 80's dance sound FROM disco.

I wrote a big comment about this in discussion section of the very indeterminate article "electronic dance music".

It is probable that the term "italo" was used in Europe, but I am pretty sure that worlwide, this appellation was pretty much secondary to the more general nomenclature of "Dance Music", this one being prevalent in the USA. Lime are definitely a classic "Dance Music" band, but...italo??????

You needed to be there at the time (1981-1982) to realize that, especially in America, and I suppose in England too, everyone was fed up with the term "disco". Nobody ever wanted to hear that word again, so they started to use "Dance Music", because the music was all new, cold, sort of a meeting between synth pop and disco, in a sense, and that included many sub-genres like eurodance. I think italo might have been referred to as italo dance. I have no idea where the term "disco" comes from in this context. If people used the term in Europa, it was certainly not popular around here, Canada or USA. So why is there a huge article about this and nothing about the much more important general movement of "Dance Music"??????? (aka exactly what Lime were doing).

Thanks

Cedric Caspesyan

PS: "Dance Music" is meant as a specific genre that emanated in the 80's club scene, not just the general use of "music that is made for dancing".

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The "1986" part is very misleading...

The text is rather confusing and I am not quite sure what the author's point is. Releases from 1986 are mixed with releases from 1998. For example: Culture Beat's 'Mr. Vain' was released in 1993 and Eiffel 65's 'Blue' was released in 1998, while the article (very) wrongly suggests that they were both released in 1986, at the same time as Radiorama and Baltimore...

I think the author is comparing genre's...but I'm not sure. Can anyone clarify why these releases are being compared? I think this might simply be a wording issue, but I expect there are other parts of the article which are wrong in a similar way. I will go over it later, but for now I would appreciate that the author fixes this part. Hli 23:46, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Why list all these artists?

I agree that we should definitely list songs that are important to the genre, either because of their sound, or that they paved the way, or that they are considered classic Italo hits (and we explain why), etc.

But, personally I find that listing endless artists is completely pointless without explanation, and does not make a great article.

It would make much more sense to have a special list called "Hits by Year" or something, and there we could list all these hits.

This article is about Italo Disco as a genre. We can all agree that this term is very wide, and as many of you have pointed out there is no easy way to compare releases such as Koto's "Jabdah", Maskio's "Subway", Paul Sharada's "Dancing All The Night", or Gay Cat Park's "I'm A Vocoder".

So in order not to confuse the readers even more, I suggest that in the main article itself we only list tracks that we can say something about. Did the song contribute greatly to the evolution of the genre? What is so special about that particular release, and why it is important? For example, under 1983 we can write that this or that label was founded, or that this artist had a hit (and say that this Italo Disco track was the first one to be popular while using this or that). You know?

In comparison, when explaining "Rock" to someone, it would make no sense to list songs by Foo Fighters, the Beatles, and Blur, and say "all these songs were hits", unless the point was to show how broad the genre is.

I've been editing the article, both wording & grammar and information wise, and I will continue. But I'd like to hear some of your opinions on possibly removing artists' releases from the main article. Hli 17:49, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Copyvio

^ I am the author of this history, it comes off the www.myspace.com/italodisco1 page. You are taking my writings and re-wording it without giving credit or sourcing your info. and this is plagiarism! My writings weren't written so you could edit it to your own liking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.241.102.139 (talk) 21:22, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

In response to this, I've tagged the article for copyright violation. I believe the next step is for someone to create a version of the article that removes the offending content. See the copyvio tag on the article page for details. —mjb 02:24, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Removed the copyvio text. feydey 03:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Unclear Italian expression

I've fixed the expression "Rock Electronico" into the obvious "Rock Elettronico". Unfortunately, even as an Italian speaker, I can't make sense of "Bailandi Discoteka". It could easily be a misspelling of "Ballo da discoteca", which would be meaningful if a little vague, but since I'm no Italo Disco expert, I'll leave it to someone with reliable sources. --Valerio, wikipedia user, 23 June 2008

Italo disco as a general term

I feel sorry for this wiki article of Italo Disco. Someone has chopped up the history of it and cut out everything IMPORTANT about italo disco and left only un-related info on other genre's. Italo disco = italian produced disco music from 1982-1988 on labels like discomagic or time. this article is anything but that, and makes barely no mention of the genre, but of "dance/disco" of the 80's and 90's and today. this wiki should be renamed "Some bad research and a slanted history of european dance music". - 10-13-08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.160.63.216 (talk) 21:44, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

My friend, Italo-Disco is much more than just Italian produced disco music of the 80's, which was only released on 2 labels that didn't even use the term "Italo Disco." in fact, a German ZYX Music label invented the term with its Italo Boot/Disco compilations. Yes, a lot of acts were of Italian origin, but not all of them. Italo Disco has roots in Italy, but the creators of the term included everything else that used the same music style. And the style is the most important part at the end of the day. People rarely listen to music because it is produced the same year, same country, or even the same musician, those are not the clearcut attributes of a music style, the performance is. Italo Disco music style is not easy to find anyways, therefore dividing it into countries and production labels is not helping anyone who wants to listen to it. There are actually still Italo Disco songs that get thrown into Disco/Euro disco, synth, and even r&B. And that's not helping the fans at all. Can you imagine looking for an italodisco sound in disco or euro disco? That's ridiculous, those genres has nothing to do with the 80's in the first place and barely electronic. Or even worse, to put an Italo Disco artist into an Italian Pop category, which is a very different style as well. So, ironically, Italo Disco is indeed the european produced disco music of the 80's.

PS, This is a response to the above post that starts with "I feel sorry for this wiki..." --74.94.79.145 (talk) 19:00, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Proof of expression existance and genre popularity already in 1980

Was browsing through the german albums chart book for the years 62-86. And under various artists compilations was this entry:

25.08.80 pos. 1 11 weeks Italo Top Hits K-Tel

If this entry doesn't prove a couple of things, then nothing does. It proves that:

1. K-Tel, the leading compilation label at the time (who were leasing material from others), chose to put out an album with the word 'Italo' in it. Meaning that they thought the title could sell their product. Meaning that they though it was an expression the average record buyer in Germany was familiar with. Else they would have called it something with Disco or Eurodisco. It proves that the expression Italo existed before 1982 or 1983.

2. By going to the top of the chart, it proves that Italo was NOT an underground genre in Germany in August 1980. It takes several hundred thousand records (if not + 1 mill?) sold to get to no. 1 in such a populous country (60 mill at the time). It proves that Italo was a big genre in Germany already at this point.

84.209.93.80 (talk) 22:51, 8 January 2009 (UTC)Stein ES, 08.01.0984.209.93.80 (talk) 22:51, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

This is interesting, and should get a mention, but it was a compilation with different kinds of Italian pop music on it. It wasn't strictly dance/disco music, or any one kind of music in particular. K-Tel apparently put out a series of these compilations into the mid-'80s (1984 or 1985 at least). There was also a compilation series on another label (or multiple other labels) called Italo Super Hits, which apparently started in 1980 and became more dance/disco oriented as time went on.

It makes me wonder what Italo was supposed to mean. I thought maybe it was a combination of Italien (Italy) and a word that ends with alo, like maybe hallo (hello, as in, hello from Italy), but my partner in crime, fluent in German, says it's just a generic Latin prefix meaning of Italian origin, like Indo means of Indian origin; it's basically just a way of making "Italian" be a prefix. A bit of Googling confirms. —mjb (talk) 02:09, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Your right when you assume that Italo just is another word for italian. (In the same way that Franco is another word for french. I.e. the Franco-German war). So the word italo has been used before disco existed, and very much so in connection with the italian western genre, popular 64-74. It was called Italo Western in Continental Europe, instead of Spaghetti Western used in the english speaking world and the Nordic countries. However I have never heard italo in connection with anything else that disco and dance in the field of music.
I'm the one who started this thread, and without being an expert on the subject you should push back the starting point of this genre from 1982, to at least December 1980. That was when Azoto released San Salvador on a 12" single that sounded like nothing before it. It contains house-style piano years before everybody else. Everybody that says italo disco is a rip-off of US disco should listen to it. Stein ES — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.209.88.240 (talk) 23:07, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Röyksopp

Röyksopp should be added to the list of artists influenced by Italo Disco as their "Back To Mine" compilation features several Italo Disco tunes. Perhaps a brief mention in the "Revival, 1998 - present" section also?

Deepcloud (talk) 17:49, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Good article on Italo in the Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2008/sep/01/sceneandhearditalodisco

It's written from the UK point of view, but there's some good characterizations of Italo here, and our article needs more sources. Squidfryerchef (talk) 18:01, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Move?

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was Moved (seems non-controversial) DMacks (talk) 06:24, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Italo Disco → Italo disco —

• Unnecessary capitalization of the word "disco". SnapSnap 19:33, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Italo Boot Mix or Best of Italo Disco

The claim, probably popularized by this very Wikipedia article, is that the Italo Boot Mix series was the first use of "Italo" in connection with this kind of music. But the same year that series started, there was the Best of Italo Disco compilation, also on ZYX, and also spawning a series that lasted throughout the 1980s. In the absence of any definitive info on which came first, I would rather we just acknowledge both. —mjb (talk) 05:18, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and done this, and also added a mention of the 1980 pop music compilations discussed above. —mjb (talk) 11:17, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Spaghetti

The term "Spaghetti dance" is another synonym for Italo disco, or for a broader range of Italian dance music perhaps including or (I've been told) excluding Italo disco. But where was it actually used? I am having trouble finding any historical references to that term to add to the article. —mjb (talk) 11:17, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

We have no proof Mikulski named the genre

It's hard to make this article meet Wikipedia standards, but we should try. For example, the following oft-repeated claims may be true, but we can't yet point to anything authoritative which says so, so we should not repeat them:

• ZYX boss Bernard Mikulski coined the term "Italo Disco".
• The first use of the phrase "Italo Disco" was on the ZYX label's Italo Boot Mix series, which started in 1983.
• The first use of the phrase "Italo Disco" was on the ZYX label's Best of Italo Disco series, which started in 1983.

As it turns out, "Original Italo-Disco" is printed on the sleeve of a 1983 ZYX release of Mr. Flagio's "Take a Chance", as well. ZYX could've put it out ahead of the compilations; we don't have an exact release date to know for sure.

And how can we really know who coined the term? Even if ZYX was the first to put it in print, does that mean Bernhard Mikulski himself invented the name? It could just as easily have been something in the air, a word people were already using. Or maybe someone working for Mikulski came up with it. In any case, ZYX is not known for originality! We must remain skeptical and choose our words carefully.

There is no real evidence, just folklore, much of it propagated by this very Wikipedia article... yet everyone repeats these claims as if they are fact.

It is OK to mention Mikulski and ZYX and say that it's often claimed that he coined the term. That is much different from saying he definitely coined it. And come on, a defunct blog post written a couple years ago, by someone who didn't talk to anyone even remotely connected to the music, is not proof of anything. I've made edits to the article accordingly, and I don't appreciate the anonymous visitor from Milan coming in and undoing those edits without explanation. We must hold this article to a higher standard. —mjb (talk) 00:48, 9 October 2012 (UTC) [updated 07:55, 24 January 2013 (UTC)]

Beginning of italo was 77-78, not 82-83

This article makes the impression that italo disco started on some day during 1982. After the extremely few italian artists, got bored by apeing after their anglo-american counterparts in the 77-82 period.
Nothing could be more wrong that this assumption. 82 and 83 was the peak years for the genre, not the start years. Literary hundreds of disco singles was released in Italy 77-82. While many did ape the USA or UK artists, a high percent had their own italian style almost from day one. To prove my point, I've included 3 You Tube videos with early tracks NOT sounding like anything from USA or UK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZCTFgu_x_Q

LA BIONDA: Sandstorm 78. Arabic style instrumental.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPUdZRsPwG4

TANTRA: Hills Of Katmandu 79. Original 79-mix covering an entire LP side. Very much sounding like early 90s trance-music. Faded out after 10m, but almost 16m originally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnfWSN4pId4

AZOTO: San Salvador 80. Has house-style piano, an usual feature internationally from the late 80s.

If the italian disco artists was ripping off foreigners in the 77-82 period, which songs and artists was these 3 songs ripped off from?
If you ask me early italo artists 78-80 were ahead of the game, not behind. Making music that influenced hi-nrg, trance and techno 5-10 years later.
Several other people has tried to tell the author of this article that italo disco existed before 82, but to deaf ears. A good section is the "Beginning of italo" above. It has many good examples.

Bjarnulf, Oslo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.209.88.240 (talk) 19:26, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

OK, Italian disco evolved over time, had uniquely Italian elements, and was somewhat distinguishable from foreign disco prior to '82. Yes, I agree, and maybe the article needs work to better convey that message. But I think the rest of your argument relies too much on the disputed idea that "Italo Disco" encompasses all Italian disco, as opposed to what most people think the term means, which is the all-electronic mid-'80s sound, the period when it didn't really sound very much like anything prior, or very much like anything foreign, and it was barely even disco. It was the then-current sound that ZYX exported and apparently gave the name Italo-Disco to. They weren't talking about Azoto, Tantra, and La Bionda; they were talking about Mr. Flagio, Peter Richard, and 'Lectric Workers. It was the modern sound, not the '77-'82 sound, and the difference between those two is like night and day. Find me some '80s sources which refer to "Italo Disco" as the pre-'82 sound. The only source I can really think of is from very recent times, the 2008 compilation Disco Italia: Essential Italo-Disco Classics 1977-1985. Bill Brewster's liner notes for that compilation contain some errors (notably, being off by 2 years for the naming of the genre), and they're inconsistent in the degree to which they imply that Italo Disco is distinct from Italian disco. Before using that as a source, I'd want to write to him to get some clarification on whether he intended to be so vague.

Regardless, if we need to acknowledge that some people consider Italo Disco to be this broader definition which covers the entire Italian disco repertoire going back to '77 or whenever, much like some people consider the genre to cover non-Italian productions in a similar style, then fine, let's do that, especially if sources can be found to support this. But it would be inappropriate to try to force this view into the article as a total replacement for the widely held view of Italo Disco as a special, later subset of all Italian disco. —mjb (talk) 05:20, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

The Term Italo Disco

The article uses the term Italo-disco as a Genre. There seems to be a misunderstanding amongst number of editors as to whether it is a genre. Italo-disco is simply a term which was invented to refer to Italian based Synthpop (sometimes New Wave) dance projects of the '80s. In other words, the term itself does not specifically refer to a single dance music style, it is a broad term covering a few dance genres (synthpop, new wave, europop).--Harout72 (talk) 14:48, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

You're working from a very narrow view of genre here, as if it were only allowed to be an indivisible unit, a "single style" which cannot encompass any sub-styles. But nearly every well-known and little-known genre could be said to be a "term" applying to a broad range of styles; it's actually the exception when a genre is extremely well-defined, every song conforms perfectly to every "rule", and the genre has no overlap with any other. Not all disco is the Philly sound; not all house is Garage; not all techno is acid techno; not all synthpop is Italo disco...

I mean, even your examples of synthpop, New Wave, and Europop are far from being monolithic styles. The massive overlap between them should make that obvious. So how is it that you call them genres, but Italo disco is just an abused term? Rock, jazz and classical are even more diverse collections of styles, encompassing many more-narrowly-defined sub-genres, sub-sub-genres, and sub-sub-sub-genres, and no one says they aren't genres. If anything, until recently, musicologists reserved the use of genre only for those extremely broad, high-level categories, rather than for the narrowest, indivisible leaf-node styles, no matter how well-defined and named those styles may be.

Also, Wikipedia articles about styles of music (or meta-styles, if you prefer) must be primarily about those classifications and the musical repertoires embodying them, rather than being about the terms themselves. More generally, it's just bad form to kick off an article with <topic> is a term referring to X —as opposed to <topic> is X.

If the Italo disco article were only about the topic as a term, it would have to be gutted and completely rewritten exclusively as an etymology article rather than a music genre article, and it would have to rely on sources (currently nonexistent) where people write about the use of the term, instead of where people write about the music itself. That would be ridiculous; there has to be an article about the music. People routinely speak of, write about, and otherwise treat Italo disco as a style-based category of music—a genre—which, like almost every other, actually has a range of styles within it, and a degree of overlap with other genres.

So I totally disagree with your characterization of Italo disco as not being a genre. —mjb (talk) 22:44, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I understand the point you're trying to make, but your caparison above saying not all synthpop is Italo disco, doesn't make sense at all, I'm afraid. I'm merely pointing out that the term Italo disco does not represent a specific group of music style or even sub genres, as New Wave does for example. New Wave could cover wide range of synthpop generated styles and even have sub genres, but it does remain within a specific distinguishable style. Whereas Italo-disco goes from covering hardcore New Wave numbers like David Gray's "Let's Dance Tonight" to Europop, rap included, tracks like Clio & Kay's "Keep on Dancing". In fact, it even goes as far as covering pop sounds like Mike Franscis' "Changes of the Heart". This cannot be viewed as sub genres of anything as you compare it to Techno's sub genres which sound different but remain in the bracket of a single recognizable style. Therefore, Italo-disco is a term which simply refers to various types of Italian music (mostly sung in English) produced in the 1980s. That term was invented to market the Italian music. As for references, articles should have sources for at least key sentences regardless of whether it's about a term or genre, and this article offers almost none for lot of its key sentences. Clearly the article's unsourced material has lasted as long as it has without being removed because it doesn't attract many people.--Harout72 (talk) 01:10, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

There's no doubt that there's a variety of sounds under the Italo disco umbrella. But it's not a random or infinite variety, nor does that make Italo somehow less of a genre, or different from most others. We talk about those other terms as genres because when those terms are used, they aren't talked about as terms, they're talked about as types of music... very diverse types, in many cases.

Rock, for example, is certainly a genre, yet it covers everything from tender ballads and doo-wop to a gajillion kinds of metal and, if you're taking a birds-eye view, even hip-hop, house and techno. Yet this diversity doesn't prevent all of those diverse sub-forms from being called rock, or rock being called a genre, and we don't need to cite sources that say rock is a genre. It is one because everyone talks about it as a kind of music, not as a word.

I'm not sure what's confusing about "not all synthpop is Italo." Some synthpop is Italo and some is not. Some New Wave is Italo and some is not. Some Hi-NRG is Italo and some is not. So yes, Italo is not uniform; it embodies a range of styles. It is a range of styles. Yet, synthpop (or New Wave or Hi-NRG or whatever) also is not uniform; it embodies a range of styles, some of which can be identified as Italo, some of which is somewhat Italo-like, and some of which is absolutely not Italo. Play me some Men Without Hats, Gary Numan, or some minimal wave (another contentious term!), and I'll know it's not Italo disco, but it certainly is synthpop just as much as Alexander Robotnick, Valerie Dore, and Vivien Vee are. So to argue that synthpop is a genre and Italo is not is just silly.

But if you are hung up on the notion that one genre cannot encompass a diverse range of styles, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Trying to be constructive, though... If you feel strongly that the article needs to emphasize that Italo disco is not a singular style, but rather a diverse range of styles which largely fall under the synthpop umbrella, then let's do that. I just don't agree with trying to excise the word "genre" from that, on the faulty basis that a genre can't be diverse. Besides, what would become of the genre infobox? :) —mjb (talk) 07:04, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

It could be said that not all Italo-disco songs are synthpop,but not the other way around. Yes, Rock does have a large variety of sub genres, Hip-hop isn't regarded as one of them, regardless. Calling Hip-hop a sub genre of Rock (based on your birds-eye view example), it's very much like saying everything including Opera, Classical-rock, Sythpop is music. Those Italian based 80s projects that are being called Italo-disco are sub genres of Electronic music, whether synthpop or New Wave. Italo-disco isn't the result of a specific type of music that has evolved on its own over time and become Italo-disco. Those songs (whether New Wave or synthpop) belong to genres that were around in Britain and Germany when Italian producers began making their own. In other words, they didn't take something and modified it completely and created something unique enough, that had to have its own name (and I don't mean this disrespectfully as I have many favorites). It was Mikulski's (ZYX owner) idea to call then Italian dance music Italo-disco for marketing purposes. As for the infobox, it contains genres that have very little, almost nothing to do with Italo-disco including U.S. disco and disco. This term (Italo-disco) was specifically invented for the dance productions of 1982-1989, disco was out of the picture then.--Harout72 (talk) 00:11, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Regarding the infobox, I'm not talking about its content—I try to steer clear of infobox disputes—but rather the fact that it's a genre infobox. Similarly, this article is part of the music genres WikiProject. If you are going to define genre as something that excludes the topic of this article, then you have to go all the way and remove the infobox and WikiProject. You can't just say it's not a genre, and leave it in Wikipedia's genre hierarchy.

It could be said that not all Italo-disco songs are synthpop, but not the other way around. So you are saying that all synthpop is Italo-disco. That makes no sense.

Regarding hip-hop etc. not being rock, you'd better notify the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. Musicologists have long recognized the relationship. Rock & Roll: An Unruly History by Robert Palmer (writer) gets into this. Whereas we, immersed in this music, like to focus on the differences, there are others who are more dispassionate and who see only the similarities, especially when viewing genres in the wider historical context and taking into account that no form of music evolves without being influenced by what came before it. Neither view is wrong, one is just from further out. Regardless, it doesn't matter where we stand on that; I was just emphasizing the point that very few genres are truly homogeneous, and the variation within a genre can be quite broad.

As for the evolution of Italo disco, I half-agree. Disco declined but didn't experience the backlash and sudden death in Europe that it did in North America, but neither did it remain stagnant; it evolved in similar ways across Europe. The Italian productions were different, though; the vast majority of them were made for Italians in Italy. The costliness of imported records in Italy (at the time) is part of it, but so is Italy's isolation, both geographically and culturally. The end result of this is there have long been trends and tendencies that are unique to (or at least unusually dominant in) most music of Italian origin...certain kinds of melodies, certain kinds of progressions, certain moods. These trends persist regardless of genre, up to about the mid-1990s (at least, I have trouble spotting them after that). So when it comes to the music of the '80s, Italian dance and pop music is, depending on how much you're familiar with, fairly easily distinguished from foreign music having the same parentage, even foreign music that was influenced by ZYX-exported Italian music (and which was subsequently called Italo-Disco by ZYX). Regardless of whether it's authentically Italian, the swath of Eurodisco that gets called Italo disco must have something unique about it, sonic tendencies and trends that set it apart from other forms of synthpop, other forms of New Wave, other forms of whatever... otherwise you wouldn't be able to think of examples. This is what makes it a genre. Yes, ZYX played a role, but they weren't giving a name to utterly disparate forms of music; there are more similarities than you seem to want to admit.

I'm curious to know your take on spaghetti dance. What do you know about that term?

Also, are you aware of the relationship between progressive rock and Italo disco? —mjb (talk) 05:15, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but it really seems like you're arguing for the sake of an argument rather than trying to accept what's being said here. Yes, I think most Italo-disco songs are synthpop based, why doesn't it make sense? Have you heard a Rock or Hip-hop song that is regarded as Italo-disco? Spaghetti-dance is just another term to refer to Italian dance music of the '80s (mostly). It is, if I'm not mistaken, used mostly by the folks in the English speaking world. It's, in fact, a term no different than the term Italo-disco. As for what you're saying about Hip-hop music, that it is long been accepted as Rock genre by musicologists, I'm baffled by it. Because Hip-hop being accepted into Rock N Roll Hall of Fame doesn't mean its another branch of Rock. By the way, the Italian music may never have been in high demand in the English speaking world, but it's never been unknown to most of the world, whether in the '80s or presently.--Harout72 (talk) 06:43, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

I asked about spaghetti dance because what I've read and heard in interviews suggests that it's the main term,[2] (even if foreign in origin) or perhaps one of several terms,[3] which was used in Italy to talk about this music prior to the use of Italo-Disco on ZYX's German releases.

Italo disco isn't synthpop? I said no such thing. You seem to be completely misreading my statement, as well as misrepresenting what you're trying to say. But never mind. Let's start over.

You've come to this article—which is categorized in Wikipedia as a music genre article—asserting that Italo disco is not a genre at all, rather it's just a name for disparate, unrelated music from multiple genres. While I agree that it's a name initially given to selections of music from multiple genres, I don't see how that makes it not a genre. So I challenged your assumptions, pointing out reasons it's a genre, including: 1. the music in question is not quite as unrelated as you seem to think; 2. we're both able to identify Italo disco by its sound and not just checking to see what has appeared on ZYX compilations; and 3. genres aren't always homogeneous or mutually exclusive; it's quite normal for genres (especially new ones) to completely overlap multiple established genres, as well as to be diverse. This is certainly not arguing for the sake of argument. I assume good faith, and I hope you do, too.

Since we both seem to be intractable, I suggest waiting or perhaps asking around for others to weigh in on your proposal. —mjb (talk) 10:29, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

The way you're making it sound You've come to this article—which is categorized in Wikipedia as a music genre, as though the article is meticulously referenced and what is said within is flawless. Half of the articles on wikipedia are misleading and require improvement, this is one of them. Also, I believe I answered your questions above by offering explanation using common sense (as I can't back up what Italo-disco is due to lack of sources, but neither did you). WikiProject Electronic music doesn't seem to have Italo-disco, it has Italo house which isn't the same and again it's completely unsourced. Articles being listed in wikiprojects aren't necessarily significant, especially when any unsourced article can become part of it. Anyways, I've asked one person to submit his opinion here, but I'm not sure if he will.--Harout72 (talk) 15:32, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

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