Talk:Handball

WikiProject Handball?

Since I joined Wikipedia, I have wondered why there is no WikiProject Handball. If anyone would be interested in starting such a project, please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sports. Mentoz86 (talk) 12:40, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Hey Mentos86 I've stared the Wikipedia:WikiProject Handball some month ago. You can add yourself in the list of the Project Members.--Malo95 (talk) 10:42, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Locations

There is little information on where the sport is popular, where professional leagues are based etc, as there is for many other sport's articles. Would it be a good idea to include this as many English speaking people will be coming across the sport for the first time during the Olympics? 1 August 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.148.198.138 (talk) 09:30, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Link to rules of the game

The link to the rules of the game was unsuccessful as it has changed to:

http://ihf.info/TheGame/StatutesandRegulations/tabid/88/Default.aspx

Dave 58.178.13.200 (talk) 11:34, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Popularity in different countries

There must be information on this. (And if I'm not mistaken, there WAS when I read this article a couple of months or years ago.) Here in Germany and many other continental European countries, handball is the second most popular team sport, whereas in most English-speaking countries it's not popular at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.238.146 (talk) 00:24, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move. -- tariqabjotu 17:44, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

---

• Team handball → Handball
• Handball → Handball (disambiguation)

– I suggest that this article should be renamed to "handball". This sport is the by far most popular sport named "handball", and per Wikipedia policy the most common name should be used. Kebabipita (talk) 19:30, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose I would say that the foul in soccer is more common and "popular" than any sport called "handball" -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 05:07, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
• Comment. Handball is a disambiguation page, and thus evidence needs to be provided to prove that the sport should be the primary topic for the term "Handball". There was no such consensus back in December 2012. Zzyzx11 (talk) 05:23, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support per detailed statistics given (from the RM 2012) at Talk:Handball#Statistics. Disclaimer: I was the proposer for that RM. I feel that the "no consensus" outcome of that RM was the result of arguments similar to the one given by 76.65.128.222: "don't know what it is, but I know what is handball in soccer"; ignorance is not a compelling argument. Fresh statistics say that Team Handball has 128000 views in last 90 days, next competitor has 14500, while handball (soccer) has mere 373. Those are just not comparable in encyclopedic value and international importance. No such user (talk) 09:58, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
• I'll repeat my suggestion from the earlier discussion: There's an obvious graph similarity between "Handball" and "Team handball" incoming trafffic, and conversely a different pattern of traffic for American and Gaelic handball. The argument that the term "handball" is too generic to point to any one primary topic has merit, but that doesn't mean we can't experiment a bit - Redirect "Handball" to the presumed primary topic, and then revisit the issue after a month or so by comparing the number of clicks on the hatnote to the overall traffic - IOW analyzing the specific statistic that can void the presumption of primary topic. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 10:42, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
• Weak support but only because people looking for "Handball" seem to invariably end up at Team handball anyway. There are a lot of variants of handball, and to say that any one has primacy might be going a little too far, but let's see how this goes. – PeeJay 10:52, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
• I believe the Olympic sport "handball", which we call "team handball" is the primary topic of "handball, and that is supported by the statistics for page-views, so I'd support moving the disambiguation-page to Handball (disambiguation). I don't know if "team handball" is called that for dab-reasons, or if the sport is actually called that in English sources; I'd support both moving "Team handball" to "Handball" or redirecting "Handball" to "Team handball", but I don't know which option is the best. Mentoz86 (talk) 10:59, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Let me explain a little bit. If we move the disambiguation page away and redirect the term to this article, then we'll see the number of people who search for "Handball" at http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Handball and we'll see the number of people who arrive at team handball but then click on the hatnote at http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Handball_(disambiguation) If these two numbers end up being similar, that will mean that the redirect has pointed too many people to the wrong place, and we'll revert - there's no primary topic. If the number of people who went to the disambiguation page comes up comparatively small, then we'll be able to say that team handball is indeed the primary topic. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 12:37, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I agree with that. Count my opinion below as supporting this alternative first and for now. 10:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)Shanes (talk)

• Comment - I was bumped by Joy, for which thanks, I'd seen this RM but not felt able to comment, as agreed with 76.65.128.222 that the soccer use is at least as meaningful in UK. The park game in America, but I have no idea re how strong the olympic sport is worldwide, it probably is primary outside UK and US. I can't see the harm in Joy's suggestion. In fact it might be good for titling as a whole to try it as an experiment. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:16, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support. Of all these different types of Handball the Olympic sport, Team Handball, is by far the most popular and well known sport world wide. But it is maybe not so in larger parts of the English speaking world. And this being the English wikipedia one could make the case that the readers here would be much less inclined to read about it than readers of, say, a German, French or Spanish encyclopedia. One could think. But we have reader statistics for this now, as No such user points out. And Team Handball is by far the most read about kind of Handball there is. Right here on the English Wikipedia. When readers type in "Handball" in the search field, almost all of them want to see the article about the Olympic sport. So: give the readers what they want right away and make the move from Team Handball to Handball as proposed. Shanes (talk) 12:48, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support per Mentoz86 and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. --BDD (talk) 17:09, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support as per logic above by Joy. --HighKing (talk) 18:34, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Goalkeeper

The article seems to be self-contradictory regarding rights of the goalkeeper. Section #Summary says that Goalkeepers are allowed outside the goal area, but are not allowed to possess the ball across the goal area boundary (underlining mine). However, section #Goalkeeper says that The goalkeepers may participate in the normal play of their teammates. They may be substituted by a regular field player if their team elects to use this scheme in order to outnumber the defending players. An anon has recently added something to that effect, [1]: " The goalkeeper can freely move outside when his team is playing offense.".

As far as I know, the IP is right, and goalkeeper can freely participate in offense. However, that means that #Summary section is wrong (or I misunderstood it, but then it needs clarification). No such user (talk) 08:42, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

The summary has what seems to be an old statement, or at least a clear onde. The GK can atack like other player (even if not replaced by a field mate), but there are some restrictions: They cannot cross the goal area boundary line (both ways) with the ball in the hands, and cannot pick a ball that is on the floor outside the goal are, if the GK is inside. Players cannot pass the ball to the GK if he is inside the goal area.Scblaster (talk) 21:22, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Citogenesis

I've just "sourced" the long-unsourced History section from:
World of Sports Indoor. Gyan Publishing House. 2009. pp. 148–. ISBN 978-81-7835-765-2.
However, closeness of wording in the book and our article made me uncomfortable, so I researched a bit deeper. The book was published in 2009, while I could swear our wording has been in the article for ages... digging deep through the article history, I discovered that bulk of the material was added in this 2005 revision bu Joy, who is thankfully still around. Citing sources was much looser in those early days, and he just provided an edit summary of "history stuff, gleaned from googling".

So, we seem to have an example of Citogenesis at hand. The book does not contain the required CC-by-SA attribution in its References section on p. 163. Apparently, it can't be considered a RS (being a sort of tertiary encyclopedia), so I'd better revert myself and "glean from googling" a bit deeper. Just sayin'... No such user (talk) 10:41, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

It's probably some old IHF or EHF web site where I had found that. We should try to verify the historical factoids in some older sports history book. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 15:39, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Attempt II: here are some useful sources, attributing the "invention" to Danes Holger Nielsen, and maybe Rasmus Nicolaj Ernst, who remains rather obscure:

• S.r.tiwari (2006). History of Physical Education. APH Publishing. pp. 215–. ISBN 978-81-313-0041-1. - relatively comprehensive, but does not look terribly reliable
• Hans Bonde (18 October 2013). The Politics of the Male Body in Global Sport: The Danish Involvement. Routledge. pp. 23–. ISBN 978-1-317-96602-9.
• Maarten Van Bottenburg (2001). Global Games. University of Illinois Press. pp. 225–. ISBN 978-0-252-02654-6.
• Niels Kayser Nielsen (2005). Body, Sport and Society in Norden: Essays in Cultural History. Aarhus University Press. ISBN 978-87-7934-177-7. - mentions Rasmus Nicolaj Ernst, just added by the anon, as a "co-inventor". However, his name gives about 0 other gbooks hits.
• Trine Bay Larsen. "Team Handball: A European Sport Lost in Translation". Scene Magazine. - not impeccably reliable, appears to be a student's research. No such user (talk) 15:57, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

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Shot types

I think this could expand the article. There is a wide variety of them. There are different classifications.

• "Non-contextual shots " This represents the vast majority of shots. All they demand is the correct input.
  • Standard Shot : Regular shot taken over the shoulder
  • Hip Shot (left & right): shots taken at the height of the hip
  • Jump Shot: Jumping variant of the standard shot
  • Jumping Hip shots (left & right): Jumping variant of the hip shots
• "Contextual Shots" These are shots that will activate only if all conditions are met. For example if a ball has good rotation and manages to hit the ground (before GK touches it) it will change direction and circle around the GK.

• Spin Shots (left & right):The input needs to hip-shot left (or jumping variant) when on the right of the field and vice versa.
• "skip shot" - similar to waterpolo shot; when ball hits the floor just before the GK - GK goes down and ball goes up in the empty net; very, very rarely used because it's risky, usually as a form of surprise
  

---

• Throw in Support
• Throw in Suspension
• Throwing in Fall
• Bearing Throw
• 7-Meter Throwing
• Balloon Shoot

Source: https://sportsregras.com/en/types-of-handball-throws/
---

• Standing shot
• Jump shot

http://www.danna.it/Risorse/DAN/Public/O_D9046/D9046/Materiali_disponibili/H.handball.html
---
http://www.olympichandball.org/wp-content/Basic%20Handball%20Methods.pdf

• 1. Shot in Place (Fig. 2)
• 2. Leaning Back Shot (Fig. 3)
• 3. Vertical Jump Shot (Fig. 4+5)
• 4. Stride /Jump Shot (Fig. 6)
• 5. Shot While Falling
  • Forward Position
  • Backward Position
• 6. Situational Shots (in particular situations)

also there is step and throw ---
there are also shots like eret, zeppelin... 213.149.62.12 (talk) 00:52, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Goal post

Why it has atypical rectangular cross section? 213.149.62.12 (talk) 00:56, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Why...?

Why do the infobox and the article prefer British/international spellings (such as "Olympic programe" instead of "Olympic program" or "metres" instead of "meters" if, on section 4, the header is labeled with the American spelling "Organization" rather than "Organisation"? Also, why refer to players only in the masculine ("he", "his", "him") if there are also women players? A third queston I have is regarding the term "youths" being used instead of "children"/"kids" or "teens". --Fandelasketchup (talk) 21:59, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

@Fandelasketchup: Sorry for the late answer.

First point: Maybe there were people from the USA and UK how wrote this article. I don't see a huge problem. If you like you can change everything to one spelling.

Second point: I think the masculine is used by a german speaking person. Because in german the player is masculine. You can rewrite the sentences in a neutral form.

Third point: In handball the therme youth is used for male players under 19 years and female players under 18 years. Juniors are under 21 respectively under 20. (See examples under www.ihf.info, section World Championship). children/kids are in handball ca. under 15 years.

I hope I was able to help. --Malo95 (talk) 08:28, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

I did change everything to American spellings but one of your fellow editors reverted it. --Fandelasketchup (talk) 11:42, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Adhesive material

There is very little information in the article regarding the adhesive substance used in handball (handball glue/resin?). Can someone with sufficient knowledge on the subject write a section on it's rules/different types/history? StillUnsure (talk) 21:45, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Text error on one image 'Positions of attacking (red) and defending players (blue), in a 6–0 defense formation'

The red offensive team logically can't have a "Right backcourt" on the left side of their position and to be correct the left RB should say LB. DosCrunchyTaco (talk) 02:15, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

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followup to move discussion

These days we have clickstream stats, and WikiNav which can render the last couple of months, and https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=Handball shows that in October '23 the hatnote was #1 link in the article, but with only 486 identified clickstreams compared to the incoming traffic of 46.1k, which is ~1%. From there, that traffic scatters to a number of destinations, https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=Handball_%28disambiguation%29 onto (in order) American handball, Australian handball, Handball (schoolyard game), Gaelic handball, Handball (association football), Chinese handball, but also back to handball and some other smaller destinations. --Joy (talk) 13:02, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

While at it, I found some curious incoming redirects, cf. https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&start=2015-07&end=2023-11&pages=Hand_ball%7CHand_Ball%7CHand-Ball%7CHandBall%7CHand-ball and moved them back to disambiguation. --Joy (talk) 15:36, 4 December 2023 (UTC)