Talk:Fox News
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“Conservative”
editI don’t think the fact that Fox News is “conservative” needs to be mentioned in the first sentence of the first paragraph; maybe that should be briefly discussed toward the end of the intro. 76.170.142.83 (talk) 06:10, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
Hi
editHi everyone, I want to replace the sentence 'Fox News has been characterized by many as a propaganda organization' with 'Fox News is a right-wing propaganda organization'[1] because it's more specific. Let me show my sources of information: [2][3][4][5]
Volantor (talk) 00:23, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
- I wrote the original sentence and I think the new sentence goes too far by definitively stating FNC is a propaganda organization. I think we should go only so far as to say many have concluded it is. soibangla (talk) 00:31, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
- I simply disagree Volantor (talk) 23:57, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
- WP:DUCKTEST Volantor (talk) 21:50, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck". Volantor (talk) 21:51, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- The duck test does not apply to article content. Of course Fox is a propaganda organization. (My opinions are not that of Wikipedia.) But, it requires massive documentation to state that in WikiVoice, particularly since there exist supporters here. Your proposed change would not be possible at this time. Avoid Sisyphean tasks. O3000, Ret. (talk) 23:42, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- Truth matters Volantor (talk) 19:14, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- That's an essay, not a policy. O3000, Ret. (talk) 21:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- If a statement is not false, it is true. ... not to say “the Earth is found by many to be round” but "the Earth is round". Volantor (talk) 07:40, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- How many references are needed to state that in WikiVoice? Volantor (talk) 07:42, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- If a statement is not false, it is true. ... not to say “the Earth is found by many to be round” but "the Earth is round". Volantor (talk) 07:40, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- That's an essay, not a policy. O3000, Ret. (talk) 21:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Truth matters Volantor (talk) 19:14, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- The duck test does not apply to article content. Of course Fox is a propaganda organization. (My opinions are not that of Wikipedia.) But, it requires massive documentation to state that in WikiVoice, particularly since there exist supporters here. Your proposed change would not be possible at this time. Avoid Sisyphean tasks. O3000, Ret. (talk) 23:42, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck". Volantor (talk) 21:51, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- WP:DUCKTEST Volantor (talk) 21:50, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- I simply disagree Volantor (talk) 23:57, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
Preview of references
edit- ^ The Staff (2010-07-29). "Tell the White House Correspondents Association to give Helen Thomas' vacated briefing room seat to NPR, not FOX". Media Matters for America. Retrieved 2024-08-03.
Fox News is a right-wing propaganda organization.
- ^ Multiple sources:
- A.J. Bauer; Anthony Nadle; Jacob L. Nelson (2021). "What is Fox News? Partisan Journalism, Misinformation, and the Problem of Classification". Sage Publishing.
- "The Fox Diet". Oxford University Press. October 2018.
- Yochai Benkler; Robert Far; Hal Roberts (April 21, 2023). "Fox News and the marketing of lies". Financial Times.
- Haag, Mathew (June 7, 2018). "Former Fox News Analyst Calls Network a 'Destructive Propaganda Machine'". The New York Times. Archived from the original on May 14, 2024. Retrieved May 14, 2024.
- Sarah Ferguson; Lauren Day; Laura Gartry (August 22, 2021). "Insiders reveal how Fox News became a propaganda outlet for Donald Trump". ABC News (Australia). Archived from the original on May 21, 2024. Retrieved May 14, 2024.
- Alterman, Eric (March 14, 2019). "Fox News Has Always Been Propaganda". The Nation.
- Axelrod, Tal (March 19, 2019). "CNN's Zucker: Fox News is a 'propaganda outlet'". The Hill.
- Darcy, Oliver (October 19, 2023). "Mitt Romney criticizes Fox News and right-wing media for warping Republican Party". CNN.
- Concha, Joe (October 24, 2016). "Ex-CIA director calls Hannity a 'true propagandist'". The Hill.
- Illing, Sean (March 22, 2019). "How Fox News evolved into a propaganda operation". Vox. Archived from the original on December 10, 2021. Retrieved July 27, 2019.
- Mayer, Jane (March 4, 2019). "The Making of the Fox News White House". The New Yorker. Archived from the original on December 11, 2020. Retrieved March 4, 2019.
- Serwer, Adam (February 19, 2024). "Why Fox News Lied to Its Viewers". The Atlantic.
- Darcy, Oliver (May 30, 2024). "Fox News and right-wing media have already decided the Trump trial verdict". CNN.
- ^ Benkler, Yochai; Faris, Robert; Roberts, Hal (2018-10-18). Network Propaganda. Oxford University Press. doi:10.1093/oso/9780190923624.001.0001. ISBN 0-19-092362-8.
- ^ Yglesias, Matthew (2018-10-02). "The Case for Fox News Studies". Political Communication. 35 (4): 681–683. doi:10.1080/10584609.2018.1477532. ISSN 1058-4609.
- ^ Martin, J. (2012). The Fox Effect: How Roger Ailes Turned a Network into a Propaganda Machine. Journalism & Mass Communication Quarterly, 38, 189.
Weasel Words
edit@Soibangla Your current statement includes Weasel Words. They should be avoided when we can add specificity. There is no problem with the statement other than that it is unnecessarily vague. At the very least, a word like "critics" needs be added. Your edit has removed specificity and added weasel word statements. Amend it when you can, or I can fix it later. Just10A (talk) 17:30, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
- what weasel words? "many?" I would agree if the statement were not supported by an abundance of sources, but it is. by mentioning just a handful of specific sources in the text, your edit suggests "only these guys believe it."
I can fix it later
if you gain consensus. soibangla (talk) 17:37, 27 August 2024 (UTC)- MOS states, "Claims about what people say, think, feel, or believe, and what has been shown, demonstrated, or proved should be clearly attributed."
- It additionally states that for an editor to simply view an abundance of sources and convert it to a weasel word violates the Wikipedia:No original research policies. The sources listed are either stating personal belief or using "some say" language. Just10A (talk) 17:55, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
- specifically naming a handful of sources when there exists an abundance of sources is deeply misleading.
The sources listed are either stating personal belief or using "some say" language
is incorrect and the edit is not OR as it is supported by many reliable sources. I think you and I have said enough on this, what do others think? soibangla (talk) 18:02, 27 August 2024 (UTC)- If it is incorrect, please provide it. As of now, the majority of the sources from my cursory glance are either stating the position of a specific writer/paper or are using "some say" language. And even then, they are usually citing who they are referring to after their "some say." Additionally, I already said we don't have to only provide "a handful of sources" we just need to qualify it with something like "critics" or name the sources. That would avoid your weasel words issue.
- specifically naming a handful of sources when there exists an abundance of sources is deeply misleading.
- Again, MOS states that, ""Claims about what people say, think, feel, or believe, and what has been shown, demonstrated, or proved should be clearly attributed." as opposed to using Weasel Words. I'm afraid that is just policy. Just10A (talk) 18:09, 27 August 2024 (UTC)