Talk:Countdown to Ecstasy

Genre

Wiki's favourite music source, allmusic.com has "Genre: Pop/Rock" but also: "Styles: Album Rock, Contemporary Pop/Rock, Jazz-Rock, Soft Rock".

While iTunes.com [1] has "Genres: Rock, Music, Arena Rock, Pop, Pop/Rock, Soft Rock".

The article itself says: "Songs on the album incorporate pop jazz, easy listening, and avant-garde styles".

What ever genre is chosen, don't we need source(s)? :Martinevans123 (talk) 08:56, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

I never heard that it's Wikipedia's favourite source, but the sidebar is considered unreliable (WP:ALBUMS/SOURCE#Sources to avoid). iTunes is also listed at WP:ALBUMS/SOURCE#Sources to avoid--it's a digital retailer, not a professional critique (WP:SUBJECTIVE). The infobox is for the album, not songs from the album. "Rock" is cited in Music and lyrics → "Countdown to Ecstasy has a rock music sound that exhibits a strong influence from jazz." Dan56 (talk) 09:14, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough, although I'm not sure that being "a digital retailer, not a professional critique" should automatically bar iTunes. I'd think they're pretty reliable and respected? So should we add the source in Music and Lyrics (Valdez, 2007) in the info box also? (although that description doesn't exactly sound like straight "rock" does it?) Martinevans123 (talk) 09:24, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Citations aren't needed in the infobox when its information is based on what's cited in the article (Wikipedia:IBX#References_in_infoboxes). Dan56 (talk) 09:45, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

I see. Well I'd certainly expect at least one genre to appear, with a source, in the article text for just about every album. I'm still struggling a bit with the difference between genre and style, on which Template:Infobox_Album#Genre offers no advice. I just don't think that, in this case, the Valdez (2007) source is clear. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:19, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

It's usually a matter of editorial judgment--Valdez's exact words were "The group's first two albums, Can't Buy a Thrill (1972) and Countdown to Ecstasy (1973) were mostly rock sounds that exhibited a strong influence from jazz." This seems like enough to verify "rock", because he's describing the album (genre or style) rather than like the other quote in the article about songs incorporating easy listening and pop jazz--btw the source citing that quote (Piero Scaruffi) was found to be unreliable in a recent consensus (Wikipedia:ALBUMS/SOURCE#List_of_unreliable_sources_.28with_link_to_relevant_discussion.29). The problem with AllMusic's sidebar isn't that it says "styles" rather than "genre", but that those aren't the reviewer's characterization or based on what the review says--it's just a narrow way of categorizing entries by the website. As it says at WP:ALBUMS/SOURCE#Sources to avoid, "Previous discussions at WP:ALBUMS and RSN have evinced that they can be incongruous with the reviewer's prose, which should take precedent over the sidebar (e.g. Allmusic's sidebar classifies Rhythm Killers as 'reggae', while the reviewer observes 'no reggae in sight')." Dan56 (talk) 18:53, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Oh well. Thanks for the careful explanation. Still unconvinced that "mostly rock sounds" = "this is a rock album"; and larger doubts about this particular album being described as "rock" pure and simple. But then, as has become apparent elsewhere, I have a bit of a problem with music genres of albums always being distinct and objectively verifiable. Who am I to argue here with someone called Dan. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:42, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Lolololol :) Dan56 (talk) 07:50, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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The link, even if correctly formatted, seems to be dead, so I have tagged it as such. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:38, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Personnel list

Where does the Personnel list come from? This list has quite a few additional listed. Jairuscobb (talk) 15:12, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Tucked away at the bottom of the lists, the source given is this one? What are the discrepancies? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:34, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Too important not to have a section for each song

The WCtI (Wikipedia Coverage to Importance) ratio is far too low here! Every song should have an extensive section. A very useful and musically accuarte source for this group (not cited) is:

Robustelli, Anthony: Steely Dan FAQ, Hal Leonard: Backbeat Books, Milwaukee, 2017.

Also http://www.steelydan.nl/

New release

I think the new release needs to be covered. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 03:57, 27 May 2023 (UTC)