Talk:Barmakids

Untitled

Shouldnt Barmakid link here? Just a thought...

text removed from article

I removed a section that was not very well integrated and lacked sources; I haven't found any other references to the al Taleebi.

Disgrace and fall

Harun al-Rashid and the Barmakids were like family before the dilemma. Yahya bin Khaild raised Harun with his other sons Al Fadal bin Yahya, Jafar bin Yahya, Mossa bin Yahya and Mohammed bin Yahya. After Harun became the Kalifa he assigned Yahya bin Khaild as his prime minister. He also assigned Al Fadal major chief and mossa the head military chief. Jafar hover was given the possession of several provinces and the raising of the Khalifa Harun's child Al Ma'amoon.

Although the Barmakids have done a lot that promote Harron and his country the rift from what happened between the allies caused Harun to punish them.

Historians were uncertain of the cause that led Harun to demolish the Barmakids. However the rumor about Harun sister and Jafar is untrue. The following may clear what caused the Barmakids sad end.

Harun al-Rashid sent al Al Fadal to al Taleebi (another rivaling tribe) to sign a peace treaty without violence or bloodshed. A while later after signing the treaty as Harun expcted al Taleebi broke the treaty. So Harun ordered he be captured and kept with Jafar bin Yahya. However one night Jafar and Yahya al Taleebi met secretly to plan Yahya's escape. Jafar freed him and gave him money to flee from Baghdad. When Harun al Rashid knew of this great betrayal he ordered Jafar's death and the imprisonment of the rest of his family. Harun was scared of the Taleebi clan and would not risk the Taleebi and Barmakids joining forces to destroy the Abassids.

If you find anything worth putting back in in there; feel free. flammifer^talk 11:41, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Record of referenced content deleted from this article

• Unexplained Deletion On 8 January 2010 by 174.117.195.29

"The family has its origin in a line of hereditary priests (Sanskrit प्रमुख Pramukh, arabized to Barmak) at the Buddhist monastery of Nava Vihara (Nawbahar) west of Balkh."

• Unexplained Deletion again on 8 January 2010 by 174.117.195.29

Intothefire (talk) 07:27, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

"Barmecide feast"

That expression should be explained in this article, not just vaguely alluded to... AnonMoos (talk) 14:56, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

May I endorse the above sentiment -- I had fully expected to find some etymology or explanation of the phrase in WIki, and was disappointed -- 2.24.226.224 (talk) 16:13, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Rit Nosotro

References taken from this source should be excluded, as this author is not actually a real person. Rit Nosotro's perspective also seems to be very biased on this matter. The author predominantly favors a Christian religious perspective when he should actually be objective while dealing with history, as historians it is our duty to try and find the truth, not to pass judgment. The level of his bias can be seen from the following citation that is taken from the source used in this article; "Also, the predominately Muslim state worshiped Allah rather than the true God. Thus, they violated God-given law; Jesus declared [16], "Worship the Lord your God and serve him only." . Rit Nosotro's Methodology is flawed. Use with care.

Barmecides

The article states that Barmecides is incorrect because the third syllable is not a sibilant, but there is no sibilant inherent in Barmecides, being an obvious Romanization, where c was never pronounced as a sibilant. Whoever wrote this seems to believe that modern English pronunciation apparently supersedes historical pronunciation in resolving accuracy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.220.42.13 (talk) 22:51, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

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User:HistoryofIran

I get your point but it needs to be mentioned that primary sources called their ancestor Barmak a Zoroastrian. The wording can be changed to something like “[...] were an influential Iranian[2][3] family from Balkh, despite primary Muslim sources describing their ancestor Barmak as a Zoroastrian priest, modern scholars rather agree on the family being originally hereditary Buddhist leaders (in the Nawbahar monastery),[a][5]” What do you think? Xerxes1985 (talk) 12:55, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

I must disagree. It is irrelevant to mention in the lede (not to mention convoluted), considering they weren't even Zoroastrian, it's just bogus info. This is also stated in Khalid ibn Barmak: "Historical traditions that assign the Barmakids a Zoroastrian origin, and even make them descendants of the chief ministers of the Sassanid dynasty, are later fabrications invented during the family's zenith" Barthold, W. & Sourdel, D. (1960). "al-Barāmika" --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:21, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

User:HistoryofIran I guess you’re right, all though Zoroastrian influence in their Buddhism, like among the Kushans, is not unlikely, but this is just speculation at this point. Not to mention the Muslim sources falsely mentioning them to be Zoroastrian are already covered in the Origins section Xerxes1985 (talk) 11:49, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Location?

Why does it say Iranian if they are from Balkh which is located in modern day Northern Afghanistan EFactchecker (talk) 05:43, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Second Source

@HistoryofIran I see what you mean with the first source, it calls them Afghan later on in the book, but before that mentions their Bactrian background. But I'm more concerned about the second source which you thought wasn't WP:RS, the author - Richard Bulliet has a PHD in history (from harvard). Noorullah (talk) 16:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

All this discussion is a bit useless in my humble opinion, Afghanistan did not exist back then as a country and anyways, Afghans are ethnic Eastern Iranians.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 17:07, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Ops, Google eboks merged him and other Richard Bulliets. Regardless, I just looked at the publisher and his works, not really impressive. He does not specialize in the topic at all, nor does the book ("The Earth and Its Peoples A Global History: To 1500 · Volume 1") focus on it. It's also a pretty WP:EXTRAORDINARY claim, and does not appear in high quality sources focused on the Barmakids, such as Iranica, EI3, "The Bactrian Background of the Barmakids" chapter that is routinely cited in other WP:RS, and Islamica, all which connect the Barmakids to a Bactrian/Iranian background. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:10, 17 October 2024 (UTC)