Talk:Alice in Wonderland syndrome

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 13 January 2020 and 20 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): OKtamu.

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 June 2020 and 21 August 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): S.Huda, Future PharmD, Mhabtezion, CAngerman, Catherinerbarton.

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 January 2019 and 17 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ashleyhomolka7312.

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Cough syrup

There is some suggestion, unsubstiantated, that certain ingredients of cough syrup may help cause micropsia.

Your damn right it does. Anyone who has ever taken a high dose of Dextromethorphan knows that it can cause visual distortions which may make objects seem smaller, or bigger. Of course these are effects from taking doses of Dextromethorphan that are far out of the medical dosing range. --Arm

That's funny, because yesterday I just experienced this after taking a dose of cough syrup. I wonder if it was just a coincidence. I've also had this happened to me many times in the past. Aurora sword (talk) 04:24, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

---

"Micropsia does not only affect visual perception, but also one's hearing, sense of touch, and sometimes one's own body image; the syndrome continues even when the eyes are closed."

So... if I'm interpreting this correctly, it means you can feel like different body parts are bigger are smaller? I have this happen to me sometimes while I'm lying in bed trying to sleep. It's not a visual thing... if, for example, I feel as if my hand is small, I can pull it out and look at it and it looks normal to me, but it still feels that way. I'm just wondering if this is what this part of the article is referring to, as I'm not sure if these symptoms come from AIWS or not, and I'd like to find out for sure since my mother doesn't seem to believe me when I tell her I've experienced AIWS many times before. (Hope I don't sound crazy or anything... don't worry, I'm not.) Shivers 23:03, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I think that you are correct. Try to see if you can find descriptions of micropsia or AIW in PubMed. Not that AIW is necessarily a disease, but the medical literature might have info and stories. Jclerman 20:21, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

WHY ARE THERE TWO ARTICLES OF THE SAME NAME?? THERE IS A SECOUND ARTILCE TITLED THE ALICE IN WONDERLAND SYNDROME, WHY IS THAT ?? P.S. THE SECOUND PAGE SEEMS TO MORE INFORMATIVE THAT THIS ONE —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.164.156.17 (talk) 00:18, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING??????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.228.185.209 (talk) 21:16, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Alice in Wonderland Syndrome is a general term.

Alice in Woderland Syndrome is neurologica condition, encompassing, micropsia (ethimologically "small sight"), macropsia ("big sight), distorsion of body parts and of time.

There are nevertheless ophtalmologic causes to micropsia, like macular or corneal oedema http://www.springerlink.com/index/X22427718J127L83.pdf, http://pn.bmj.com/cgi/reprint/3/3/178-a

It looks like this article is based on [1], and written by someone who had little understanding of the subject at hand, and did little research past summarizing this confused web page.

5 min later: I edited out the mix between AiWLS and micropsia, and creeated a micropsia article.Zorbid (talk) 11:12, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Lilliputian hallucinations/Delirium Tremens

Lilliputian hallucinations, a psychological symptom of Delirium tremens. However, there is no mention of delirium tremens here. (Glossary_of_psychiatry#Lilliputian_hallucinations does mention lilliputian hallucinations in the context of delirium tremens, but only as a brief definition of the term) Could someone add a mention to this? Ged3000 (talk) 19:40, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I've added a brief comment at signs and symptoms and provided a PMID 9885400 reference. Regards, CycloneNimrod^Talk? 20:15, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I really don't think there is any classical link between Lilliputian hallucinations and DT's, despite the case report. Instead, lilliputian hallucinations are part of peduncular hallucinosis, or Lhermitte's hallucinosis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.197.116.253 (talk) 12:43, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Not linked with age?

I could have sworn this also happens sometimes in children around the ages of 4-8 or so, and then goes away as they get older. Actually I thought that was the one of the more common ways people have it.--75.95.95.227 (talk) 06:23, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I read in an old issue of Annals In Pediatrics that this syndrome occurs mainly in younger children, around the ages you mentioned. This has been the case in my experience, although I diagnosed it once in a 16-year-old girl.--Beezer137 (talk) 23:16, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Some years ago I got an email from a narcoleptic subject, college student, that under severa emotional stress developed AIW acutely and transitorily. In particular, she went for a drive and saw the little beings in front of the car. I've had one or two AIW during dreams. Jclerman (talk) 01:52, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

The article used to refer to childhood, but much of the original text was lost during a re-write – I think it needs to be merged back in! http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alice_in_Wonderland_syndrome&oldid=199910121 — Lee J Haywood (talk) 10:27, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Removal of prognosis section

It read "Alice in Wonderland Syndrome is usually short lived and does not require any immediate treatment. Treating the underlying cause (usually migraines) results in the syndrome disappearing."

It's unsourced and lacks factual accuracy imo but also could lead those who come to wikipedia (wrongly) for medical advice to think there is no reason to see their G.P. AIWS could be a sign of infection by EBV.

Perhaps a causes section would be more useful than a prognosis section for what is a transitory perception disorder? Cheers, Nk.sheridan   Talk 22:18, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I know of people who have had AIW syndrome for years, into midlife.

One problem: under signs and symptoms, first paragraph, you have "The hallmark sign of AIWS is a migraine, and may in part be caused the by symptom itself." If I'm understanding correctly what you're saying, that migraine is a symptom - you are incorrect. Migraine is an illness, not a symptom. AIWS may actually be an aura which is followed by a migraine. In any case, migraine should not be called a symptom.

Another problem: Same paragraph. You say "although mostly limited tot he eyes, AIWS ..... Then later you say "The most prominent and often most disturbing symptom is that of altered body image" Then in the following paragraph you say "the second major symptom is the the distorion of visual perception." you are contradicting yourself.

Another problem: Under diagnosis: "mechanical change to the body's systems" Mechanical is not the correct word to use. I would suggest using "physiologic"

Last one: Same paragraph: I would remove the comma following "presumed when other,"

It's a fascinating syndrome. I suffer/suffered from it myself. I know quite a bit about it. I hope you took this criticism to be constructive. --Julcal (talk) 00:55, 6 April 2009 (UTC)julcal

One more thing - the treatment section is way out-dated - AWIS is treated like most migraines are treated. Check out the migraine page on Wiki. LSD??? can you document that? --Julcal (talk) 00:57, 6 April 2009 (UTC)julcal

Please note you shouldn't refer to us as "you", as it wasn't a single person who wrote this article. You have acknowledged some mistakes, perhaps you could fix them? Cyclonenim :  Chat  11:58, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, please use the word "yous" or "y'all". Also, Cyclonenim, perhaps since Julcal made you aware of the errors, you could, rather than acknowledging that he could fix them, fix them yourself? ;) Just kidding mate,--74.166.60.24 (talk) 02:29, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

You can edit the article yourself by going to the edit section from the article if you are so critical of them.(talk) 02:42, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

so i'm 20 years old and i'm still suffering from AIWS, it causes me to see a room bigger, people look either larger or smaller, my sense of touch, sight and hearing are all altered. and if i fall asleep when this is happening, i'll have a reacuring dream. (btw, it's not a pleasent one, and very hard to describe). i've been told that it should have stopped happening years ago but, me and my sister both still experince it. (she's 17) is it possible that it could continue to happen for the rest of ower lives? jacob and amanda mosley —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.177.6.195 (talk) 02:26, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I did suffer from this

---

When i was a kid and a teen I often had the sensation of things became big and small and big in a fast cycle for 5 or 10 minutes stopping suddenly as it came. I didnot remember anything that provoked it, and i never feared it, because I kwew it would stop, nor headache. Of course i tried to sit down but sometimes I walked, it was funny. I also had strage sensations when i fall asleep, sometimes i awaked with the sensation that i was not breathing, or sometimes I awaked but i can't move, sometime i had the sensation my body was flying but i couldnt move. I hadn't sufferend those cycles of macropsia/micropsia any more since long time ago but flying sensation happens to me time after time when I'm pretty stressed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.179.143.198 (talk) 10:13, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I have AIW at 15. I actually find it quite fun, although I do get frequent headaches. If feels funny. 76.100.244.127 (talk) 20:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)Jameson

I too at 14 frequently suffer from this, also at age 15(my second name is Todd to which is quite a coincidence) and find it is often provoked when I sit in a dark room for around 10 to 30 minutes, mostly when im trying to sleep and have my eyes closed. I have however found a technique for dealing with it; basically when looking at a deformed object wether it be shrinking, growing or cycling attempt to directly show your brain what the size of the object is. the best way to do this is by measuring the object with a device that clearly displays measurements. say a box that you know to be 10cm wide appears to be alot larger, hold a ruler up to the box and show yourself that it measures 10cm and run your eyes up and down the ruler and it should at least temporaraly shrink back to normal. This works for me sometimes and I would like to hear how it works for others.--93.96.16.14 (talk) 18:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I find this rather strange. I often experienced AIWS symptoms, but forgot about it until today, when a friend refered to this article. I used to experience it while busy on my cellphone in a darkish room. first my head would feel fuzzy and sounds get distorted. My hands and cellphone would look and feel as if it were further away from my body. Lastly my mouth would start to feel dry. I never had headACHES and the only way I could stop it, was by going to sleep. It is strange that I simply forgot about it as if it were all just a dream. Honestly, when thinking about it now, it still feels like a dream. Trivialties (talk) 17:11, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

--I also suffer from AIWS. There is mention of a migraine diet in this entry. First of all, I know there are foods that are frequently associated with migraine, but not everyone has food triggers, so diet is not a treatment, but a form of prophylaxis for some people. Secondly, I have never actually heard of "the migraine diet." Does someone have any substantiation for this diet? Because based on my knowledge, which is pretty thorough for a lay person, there is no such thing as "the migraine diet," just dietary triggers specific to individuals. I am not going to edit this on the off chance that someone can come up with documentation for a diet. Given I would have to prove a negative, I don't think I can authoritatively edit it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.4.96.216 (talk) 06:47, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

The 'Signs and Symptoms' section appears to have been mostly copied+pasted from my site aiws.info --Rikkus (talk) 09:41, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

-- I suffered from it when I was a kid, around 6 I guess. Sometimes, when I was falling asleep I got that wierd sensation in my head and I knew that when I open my eyes and look at my hand, it will appear very small and far away. As when you look through binocular the opposite way. It was funny and I kind of liked it, and I was trying to explain it to mom, but she didnt believe it..which I totally understand :). I aslo suffer from headaches since 6 so maybe it's related. However, Alice syndrome dissapeared when i got older. Headaches did not :( — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.74.235.196 (talk) 03:22, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

From WP:TALKPOV: "Stay on topic: Talk pages are for discussing the article, not for general conversation about the article's subject (much less other subjects). Keep discussions focused on how to improve the article. Comments that are plainly irrelevant are subject to archiving or removal." Ormewood (talk) 22:51, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Delirium

Isn't it a kind of delirium? E.g. caused by infection.217.114.191.154 (talk) 19:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

References removed from main page

Two references that were not being used, moved here. - 203.158.37.9 (talk) 22:32, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

• Podoll, K; Ebel, H; Robinson, D; Nicola, U (August 2002). "[Obligatory and facultative symptoms of the Alice in wonderland syndrome]". Minerva Medica. 93 (4): 287–93. PMID 12207198.
• Kew, J., Wright, A., & Halligan, P.W. (1998). Somesthetic aura: The experience of "Alice in Wonderland", The Lancet, 351, p. 1934

How trustworthy is source 15?

Seriously, no 17-year-old that i have ever met talks like the quote referred to in source 15. if a medical professional has paraphrased the 17-year-old then fair enough but it should not be in quotation marks. i read the source that it came from and there are several odd grammatical errors in it such as "a 20-years old male" - this suggests to me that despite its appearance of a legitimate and respectable website, it may not be. 2.24.142.38 (talk) 15:49, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Unclear

In the first paragraph I'm not sure what this means: "Size distortion may occur of other sensory modalities." If I can't understand it the same is probably true for others. Best Regards, Barbara (WVS) ✐  ✉ 21:02, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Yes, that is oddly phrased. They may mean distorted proprioception, where parts of the body become rubbery and seem to shrink or expand.2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:9994:CCF2:8340:3E40 (talk) 12:22, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Hypnagogic phenomenon

It definitely is, and hypnagogia is heightened by fatigue, that is also true.2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:9994:CCF2:8340:3E40 (talk) 12:20, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Proposed Edits

Hello. I am currently assigned to this article for a class and I will be editing it within the next few days. It looks like there is a lot of good information here, but the article seems to have gotten a bit disorganized over the course of editing. Using the Asperger Syndrome article for reference, I intend to streamline this article's subheadings and generally format it more closely to Wikipedia's manual of style for medical articles. For now, I'll just be altering the heading names, with more substantial edits later on if these heading changes are acceptable. Best regards, OKtamu (talk) 15:13, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Moving sections

The literary references felt a bit out of place under the causes section. I moved it to the Society and Culture section for now, but I'm open to adjustments to this if there is a better option for placement. Best regards, OKtamu (talk) 16:42, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Reorganizing Signs and Symptoms

The signs and symptoms section has some good information, but it seems a little scattered. On that note, I'm going to create several subsections to organize the various symptoms a little better and separate them from other general information in that paragraph. Best regards, OKtamu (talk) 16:46, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Continued edits

Earlier on the talk page, a few people seemed confused by the wording of the lead. I will be revising this section for clarity to the best of my ability. I will also be revising the signs and symptoms section, as this section seems to repeat the same information at different points. If anyone thinks these edits need to be altered or corrected, I'll be linking the old version of the page below. Best regards, OKtamu (talk) 15:24, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Here is the link for the old page https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alice_in_Wonderland_syndrome&oldid=945865451 Best regards, OKtamu (talk) 18:44, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Final Edits

To the best of my ability, I have finished going over the entire article sentence by sentence for general grammar, flow, and tone. This was completed in two separate edits, and I will link the previous version of the article here if anyone thinks my edits need to be revised or previous wording needs to be retrieved. The link is here https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alice_in_Wonderland_syndrome&oldid=946200601 Best regards, OKtamu (talk) 15:08, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

The Prognosis section contradicts an indented upper section in claiming the duration of hallucinations last from 10 seconds to 10 minutes, while above it says from 20 to 50 minutes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluespapa (talk • contribs) 07:20, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Foundations II 2020 group 1 proposed edits

Hi there, also currently assigned this article for a class and will be updating and proposing edits in this area.

[ ] Complete any missing citations

[ ] Medications & diet referenced for treatment

[ ] Expand s/s section

[ ] Expand P1 last sentence to guide what article will cover

CA & MH 7/28 — Preceding unsigned comment added by CAngerman (talk • contribs) 21:33, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Heads up on a good source for expanding this article

Hello,

I'm pretty much new at doing anything on Wiki but I wanted to let anyone interested in this subject know that there's now a pretty comprehensive source available about Alice in Wonderland syndrome. It's the book "Alice in wonderland syndrome" by Dutch professor Jan Dirk Blom, from Leiden University.

https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9783030186081

I have a copy of this book. It has a good overview of the things that can happen to someone suffering from this condition, and it talks about some real life cases too, even featuring a patient describing an episode in detail. Essentially, it's a summary of everything that's currently known about AIWS.

Sasbom (talk) 15:40, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Foundations II 2021 Group 1 proposed edits

-Consolidate and expand on symptoms from different sections under Section 1 Signs and Symptoms
-Complete missing citations
-Expand on Treatment section with medications and diet
-Add to the Diagnosis section and restructure for better flow
-Add a Classification section regarding a common classification for AIWs and AIWS-like symptoms found in literature
-Add citations for and reorganize Prognosis section to improve tone and writing style
ReevA.LUating (talk) 21:56, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Goals

The group's edits have significantly improved the article, with the addition of sections (ex: anatomical reaction), and the extra details added to the treatment and prognosis sections. The overall goals for improvement were met since a substantial amount of information was added and the article is more well rounded than it was prior to being edited. The edits are mostly all written with a neutral point of view since I cannot guess the perspective of the author by reading their writing. The second half of the sentence in the Causes section "Because Alice in Wonderland syndrome is not commonly diagnosed and documented, it is difficult to estimate what the main causes, if any, are." has a little perspective in it, and could be edited by taking out the "if any, are". Yubmoon (talk) 16:08, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

The group has improved the article by accomplishing their goals in expanding on multiple sections of the article as well as adding additional sections. The group also achieved their overall goal of restructuring the article to have a better flow while reading it. The anatomical section stood out to me because as someone who has not heard about this syndrome, it was informative yet an easy read. The edits did reflect language that supported diversity, equity, and inclusion. The language was not directed towards a specific population but instead had an informative and neutral tone focused on conveying facts and information. Gcocos (talk) 21:56, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

The group's edits are consistent with the Wikipedia manual of style. The font they used is consistent throughout the whole article and they used proper fonts for the titles as well. The group made a lot of grammatical and content editing which made the article more wholesome and easier to read for the Wikipedians. I would recommend adding hyperlinks to some of the new medical conditions added to the infectious disease section so readers can have a quick reference when reading and for ease of understanding. Overall, I think the article is well-formatted and is in line with the Wikipedia manual of style. Y.Gebrehiwet (talk) 22:07, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

The article has been improved by the group with the addition of classifications and anatomical reaction sections and expanding on the contents. All goals of improvement have been met by the group. The article has a clear structure and a good flow of presenting the information and knowledge. I would recommend combining the duplicated citations like 7 & 9, 14&49, and 44-48. References 41 and 42 are citing google scholar search pages and 42 is taking me to a course syllabus. I would suggest citing the source the group was referring to. Otherwise, the points included are verifiable with cited secondary sources and are freely available.Ylin7 (talk) 22:43, 2 August 2021 (UTC)ylin7

Foundations 2 2021 Group 1 Citations

(a) Our group has reviewed all the references and that they are now correctly formatted.
-ReevA.LUating reviewed citations 1-20
-NAbuGharbiyeh reviewed citations 21-36
-Atompkins1 reviewed citations 37-56
(b)
- None of the references were identified as predatory sources
- #43 and #53 were identified as unreliable; the texts and citations were removed from the article
(c)
-Tliu.ucsf reviewed all citations for duplicates and compiled all call outs in the text

ReevA.LUating (talk) 20:33, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
Atompkins1 (talk) 21:04, 4 August 2021 (UTC) Tliu.ucsf (talk) 16:34, 6 August 2021 (UTC)