 | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Requested move 11 November 2021
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
 | It was proposed in this section that Luluwa be renamed and moved to Aclima.
result: Links: current log • target log
This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}} |
Luluwa → Aclima – Aclima (and/or Kalmana) seems the most popular name in sources on this page, and is also the standard name used elsewhere on Wikipedia (e.g. the template used on this page). It was also the original name of the article, before being moved to Luluwa for unclear reasons Ar2332 (talk) 19:19, 11 November 2021 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran • sign the guestbook • (talk) 08:26, 21 November 2021 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran • sign the guestbook • (talk) 16:58, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
- Weak support - It seems to be the name used on the article, so it seems reasonable to move it back. YttriumShrew (talk) 05:10, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
- Comment I honestly think maybe twin sister of Cain or Cain's twin sister might be best. There doesn't seem like any name is really majorly prefered.★Trekker (talk) 13:55, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
- @*Treker: At first glance it does seem that no name is majorly preferred - Aclima and Kalmana seem to have about equal support, and there are a bunch of other names, and who knows if the level of support here accurately represents the level of support in the sources. However, if you assume that Aclima and Kalmana are variants of the same name (they have the same consonants, except the final N which is a common addition in Hebrew), then Aclima-Kalmana does seem the dominant name. Anyway, Cain's twin sister or similar does seem like a good idea, but there is one problem with it: in some sources (notably the Book of Jubilees, which appears to be the earliest and most "authoritative" work in this genre!) Cain's wife was not his twin but a separately born sister. We also can't call the article Cain's sister because there was more than one of those. We could use Cain's wife which would be unambiguous, but then "Cainan" (referenced as Cain's twin in a work that does not mention marriage) would not have an article to be placed in. We could make a collective article Adam and Eve's daughters, but my feeling is that it's probably better for each individual to have an individual page. So I think I will stick with my vote for Aclima. I'm open to more suggestions though. Ar2332 (talk) 12:20, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
- You make good points @Ar2332: (and regardless of the outcome here I consider making Wikidata items for the different figures that have some overlap). One solution could be to mimic the name of sister-wife of Njörðr and go for sister-wife of Cain.★Trekker (talk) 16:20, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
- @*Treker: At first glance it does seem that no name is majorly preferred - Aclima and Kalmana seem to have about equal support, and there are a bunch of other names, and who knows if the level of support here accurately represents the level of support in the sources. However, if you assume that Aclima and Kalmana are variants of the same name (they have the same consonants, except the final N which is a common addition in Hebrew), then Aclima-Kalmana does seem the dominant name. Anyway, Cain's twin sister or similar does seem like a good idea, but there is one problem with it: in some sources (notably the Book of Jubilees, which appears to be the earliest and most "authoritative" work in this genre!) Cain's wife was not his twin but a separately born sister. We also can't call the article Cain's sister because there was more than one of those. We could use Cain's wife which would be unambiguous, but then "Cainan" (referenced as Cain's twin in a work that does not mention marriage) would not have an article to be placed in. We could make a collective article Adam and Eve's daughters, but my feeling is that it's probably better for each individual to have an individual page. So I think I will stick with my vote for Aclima. I'm open to more suggestions though. Ar2332 (talk) 12:20, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
Same figure?
edit@User:YttriumShrew @Ar2332 Is this Awan (religious figure) the same figure? ★Trekker (talk) 23:51, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, it seems. I'll merge the pages. Ar2332 (talk) 07:49, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
“Jumella”
editWhat are the trustworthy sources for the name “Jumella”? The cited “Brewer’s dictionary of phrase and fable” (two editions are used as separate sources) says: “Cain was born with a twin sister who was named Aclima, and Abel with a twin sister named Jumella”. However, there are hardly any other sources that mention that name, it appears, apart from DC Comics — hardly reputable as a font of religious wisdom. The other reference, « Dictionnaire des sciences occultes » mentions Aclima and Lébuda, not Jumella. In the (translated) Quran, I found no mention of Jumella.
Could it be that “jumella” was actually an incorrect interpretation of « jumelle » in a French text? After all, that simply means twin sister (from Latin “gemella”). This seems like too big of a coincidence to me. -- 78.23.192.69 (talk) 11:13, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
- I couldn't find any sources besides a website that also sources 2 editions of the Brewer's dictionary- and another book in French. (Dictionnaire des sciences occultes (Encycloedie Theologique Vol. 48), ed. Jacques Paul Migne, cols. 297–298) I have no way to read the book but I think that would be worth looking into if someone can get their hands on a translated edition or can read French. Dearmuntjac (talk) 01:18, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
- Wait, sorry, you mentioned the French book. I completely forgot it as I was WRITING that. Dearmuntjac (talk) 01:23, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, I’m thinking this is simply incorrect information. Should we be bold and delete it to be safe, @Dearmuntjac?
- --78.23.192.69 (talk) 10:34, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Wait, sorry, you mentioned the French book. I completely forgot it as I was WRITING that. Dearmuntjac (talk) 01:23, 22 January 2024 (UTC)