User talk:Verdy p/archive15

Hi,

I just noticed that this template is no longer rendering links. I saw that you had made changes to {{Comseealso}}, and the related {{Comseealso/translate}}. You made the list of see also pages longer, used the {{List}} template to format it, and added translations of many more languages, all improvements.

But you dropped the {{Pg}} wrapper to each page name, which renders the links. That is, {{pg|Commons:General disclaimer}} renders Commons:General disclaimer linking to a version in the current page language if available, in the user's preferred language if not, or failing that in English.

You also changed the {{Comseealso/translate}} so it no longer takes the list of page links as a parameter. The reason it did so was that the word sequence may vary from one language to another. E.g. "See also pages" or "See pages also" or "pages see also".

Were these changes accidental or was there a reason? Aymatth2 (talk) 20:15, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I did not notice the Pg wrapper, I didnot know waht it was doing really. It may be readded if all it does is to wrap the link for special pages on this wiki. No problem for restoring that wrapper . But I had problems with it, so it requires more tests (not sure if it handles the same options); just readding the wrapper blindly may not work at all. verdy_p (talk) 20:20, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There should be no problem putting {{Pg}} back, just change {{{n}}} to {{pg|{{{n}}}}} throughout. It worked before, and providing links to the target pages is fairly basic functionality for {{Comseealso}}. How about the changes to the translation logic? It is usually wrong to assume that all languages use the same word sequence. Aymatth2 (talk) 20:42, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There's a severe problem in {{Pg}} which is very slow and still wrong, I'm already fixing it... Wait a bit. verdy_p (talk) 20:49, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think I have fixed the most obvious errors that may occur within {{Pg}} (also in {{Pg2}} now more readable). But I need examples of pages where you expected some specific results in specific languages (not English). The logic used in {{Pg}} is very difficult to understand as it does not match what is in the doc (or the doc is incorrect). verdy_p (talk) 21:23, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I forgot to reply you for "See also": in fact it is no longer a full sentence, but an introductory phrase (supposed to be followed by a localized colon, then the list of items). This is much simpler than trying to include links inside (Wiki-only templates are not flexible enough to include message formatters for now without adding some Lua module for message formaters with place holders). I think it could be a good idea (but there are some issues like capitalization at start of sentences (not applicable to all terms), that cannot be automated if the first item is a placeholder (some replacement values of these placeholders may need the capital, some not!). And capitalization follows linguistic rules (not always on the first character !). And here there's no indication at all about what kind of terms would be used in the list of linked items given to "See also". So my opinion is that it should use only the sentence form with two-phrases separated by the localized colon (See {{Colon}}}, this is not just a simple ':' character and a space and some languages cannot even use the ':' character at all!), which also solves the problem of leading articles, and grammatical case for the complement of "See also", which may be accusative as a direct object, or indirect, or could be a nominative subject; articles are also compelx to handle (they vary or contract with the noun that follows; as well what is after "See also" could be the name of an article using a full sentence (e.g. a question). There's no clear way to handle all these cases to create a correct single phrase, so two phrases, the second being an anumeration, is just better. verdy_p (talk) 21:31, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I accept your points on translation. Inserting a list of variable terms into a sentence may give problems with the number, gender, tense etc. of the surrounding words, so just separating the "see also" phrase from the list is almost certainly the best approach.

Thank you for your improvements to {{Pg}} and related templates. I am fairly new to template coding, and struggle to find the best way to achieve what I want. I think the documentation expresses the intent. It does not mention links to pages other than Commons/Help, because it is not meant to be used for them, but tries to behave reasonably if it is used for them. The basic idea is:

Link to an article in the source page language if available, or in the user's preferred language, or in the last resort in English
If an anchor is specified, link to the anchor in the target page.
Show the display name provided, or the page name translation if available, or the raw page name if not.
If no display name has been provided, tack the anchor onto the end of the name shown.

See the essay Commons:Project page translation#Links to other pages et seq. for more on the intent. Any feedback on this essay would be more than welcome. Thanks, Aymatth2 (talk) 23:29, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Location of navboxes and category sort keys

Could you please tell me why the navboxes should be on the top of the category page? You said in the edit summary: "they are not related to regions themselves". That is the exact reason the navboxes should go on the bottom; they are not related to the category. Instead, the most important thing on a category page is the description of that category, and that is why it should go to the top. And why should we set sort key "Regions" for a category which start with the word "Regions"? It makes no difference. Best regards, ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 15:32, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Categories are not like articles: lateral navigations between unrelated categories with the same parent are everywhere at top, just before the wikidata infobox that comes below and followed immediately by the optional description of the specific content of the category, and then finally other navigation to subcategories at bottom.

For this reason, navboxes that can be placed at top should be compact. The placement of the same navbox is not the same in the parent (shown at bottom of it, possibly including the all=1 option) and in its children (show at top of them, and that should never set all=1 i.e. should remove that option completely).

The "categorize" notice (frequently needed when there are many content to subcategorize) also just comes just before the navboxes to these subcategories (but after the wikidatainfobox, description). This gives a consistant and logical reading order everywhere.

This does not necessarily applies to galery pages which are structured much like articles (but many galeries also include top navboxes for "lateral" navigation between pages with the same parent topic and bottom navboxes for navigation to children topics).

The sort keys are reduced to make them predictable and allow detecting superfluous ones: we eliminate keywords in the key that are not relevant because they are part of the category name in which we'll sort them; default keys don't follow the scheme and do not sort as naturally and it's better to explicit the keywords that are significant (and not abbreviate them at all, like many poor editors do lazily). verdy_p (talk) 15:40, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Can you provide link to some Commons policy, broader discussion etc. about the category page layout you describe? Commons:Categories does not mention navboxes at all. (It does mention the description as the second thing in order of importance to be included in the category page, after parent categories.) ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 16:46, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It has just been the most common practice to distinguish parent categories and child categories, and order them properly and consistently. Initially there was no standard at all and categories where in fact difficult to navigate. This is still something being worked on progressively (because there are lot of categories on Commons, all of them still not very well structured consistantly). But basic navigation for countries and their 1st level subdivisions is done like this, as well as other important common topics that all of them should have ("History of", "Geography of", "Society of", "Maps of" in 'Geography', "People"/"Politics"/"Economy" in 'Society', "Culture of", "Nature of", and "Photos" sometimes in a parent "Medias" category).

Some countries with lot of contents have served as models (the same models also being used and being synchronized in Wikidata and used also to structure categories in all Wikipedias).

This is an interesting effort because it makes Commons a useful testbed to structure these data later in Wikidata, and then get better semantics, which further helps finding more topics more easily and not forget some contents that would have been previouslay randomly categorized in very heavily populated categories where it's difficult to find anything. It then also helps structuring all wikis and link them across each other, in all languages. But as new contents are constantly added (and need to be checked), this job will never end (but at least structuring allows less frequent misclassification and can help users figure out their incorrect assumptions based only on what they know: they can be exposed more directly to counterexamples to make more precise and more focused contents).

So try navigating similar contents elsewhere (get up if needed to parent categories for other areas, and compare what you see; it's then best to be as consistant as possible).

And you said it yourself: "description of the category itself comes after that for the parent category", which includes neighbour categories that are separate children of that parent;

Also I did not say it, but "disambiguation" (when there are possible confusion of topics) also comes juste before everything, unless the confused topics are direct children of the category itself, and even before "notifications" about a category itself (e.g. disputability) that should come just above the category's own description.

There's nothing said about "navboxes" which are just a compact presentation form for all these contents (instead of writing long boring texts): categories are not articles/galeries, so they should try to minimize the contents to just what is essential for navigating and disambiguating topics and locating others. And categories on Wommons should be internationalized if possible (don't assume only English or a national language will be used): category pages are generally named in English, but many infos are now translated with Wikidata infoboxes or other templates using Wikidata. So there's little text to write, and using a consistant presentation if more important as it speeds up navigation and avoids many errors/confusions and largely helps the maintenance. verdy_p (talk) 18:29, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Where exactly did I say: "description of the category itself comes after that for the parent category"?

Anyway, Commons indeed is an international and thus multilingual project, so the descriptions (which are translation of the category names) should go to the top, not links to other categories the user is not navigating to. And those navboxes do not have anything to do with disambiguation, either. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 18:21, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sort keys

Please don't change established sorting for existing categories. I just changed back a lot of sort changes you made on season-related categories. Thanks. --Auntof6 (talk) 23:18, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

What kind of sorts are incorrect? They are just coherent everywhere. Why suchg reverts when it was incoherently ordered? verdy_p (talk) 23:25, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Geogroup fixed

I fixed that Template:Geogroup to make it work again, and added the most frequent translations needed (ar, de, el, es, fr, he, it, ja, nl, pt, ru, uk, zh-hans, zh-hant); more may be added (but if you need to fix something and do not understand the syntax to do that properly, or find difficulties with some languages just ask me with your proposed phrases).

Note that maps with Google no longer work, as well as GeoRSS exports, and UK Ordnance Survey maps (the service links are dead). You may propose other mapping/export services with the necessary API info (i.e. the base service URL, and parameter format expected; mapping services can already use the existing KML exports if they have a parameter value URL for KML data as this export is working again). Beware of the UTF-8 encoding in KML exports when rendering it on your proposed maps, make sure it will work for example with Cyrillic (e.g. on Category:Architecture where the Geogroup template is used but where the current "OSM Map" show defective labels) !'

I suggest a replacement service for the current (defective) "OSM Map", which should use the map hosted by Wikimedia (as seen now in lot of wikis within infoboxes).

These bugs reported since months, see the "thank you " I received and my response at Template talk:Geogroup#"Template:Geogroup" does no opens the file pages.

Thanks. verdy_p (talk) 12:09, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Village Pump headers

It seems to me that after this series of edits, now we have the situation that the english link in national VP headers is doubled (see for example Template:Village pump header/de: "Diese Vorlage in anderen Sprachen: English · English · 🌐"; similar in other forums). Can you fix it? --A.Savin 13:24, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Something changed externally in the logic of LangSwitch, which allowed a value to be set as an empty string. Now we have to use a "~" !

This should be fixed now: when I wrote that a long time ago, no special value "~" was needed at all (the template or module made a difference between parameters that were actually set, and those that were not set). This "~" is a new quirk requirement that I did not introduce and that created an incompatibility.

And the logic for suppressing the duplicate English in Template:Village pump header was there since long before the change in LangSwitch !

verdy_p (talk) 17:58, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: I'm refining the list of added languages (considering the user language, then the countries where this language is most spoken, we get regional languages to add to the list; but when adding them, this should not add their complete list of regional languages that may fallback to them). Basically these are simple mappings for allowing/disabling such additions. verdy_p (talk) 22:06, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

And since the massive revert by User:4nn1l2, he is reapplying the changes that I had initially made, but added new errors multiple times (So he continues with his new "disruptive edits", because he forgets to test what I already tested and made correctly).

In fine we'll get to the situation where all was just like what I wrote. And he still claims that I made "disruptive edits" but not him now? Can't he admit his own errors or bad assumptions when he reverted everything (from me and other users) without any test or scrupulous review ? verdy_p (talk) 14:12, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring

Please stop edit warring and revert your recent change. Otherwise, I will report you to the AN‌. 4nn1l2 (talk) 04:56, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You've been ALONE to do that war, look at the history, you've reverted changed made by multiple people and approved by them ! I can (the WMF too) prove the "thank you" received. verdy_p (talk) 05:00, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@4nn1l2: And you refused to read the previous section which was clear (there were other people involved, they were informed at the same time): it was requested to me directly (just like other changed made in the Template:GeoGroup also above), made consistantly, discussed, documented to inform the requester from current situation... (And you even used the functionaly I introduced, in order to add Russian and Arabic to the English UI).

Later I consitantly checked all other listed UI languages to make sure they were correctly targetted. This was done language per language with appropriate edit comments for each of them, then appropriate HTML comments inside the template code itself so that users (including you) can understand the code.

You just chose to ignore that discussion (as if it was not existing, which is evidently false because you personally used the result of these talks to change some settings), that was the last one on my page before you posted this thread. So you refused all participation to fix possible problems and propose solutions, in fact you did not propose anything. And you did not even announce yourself as being a local admin in this wiki.

I did not act without prior approval or demand by at least one uyser that I kept informed in all relevant places. You chose immediately the war, rejected all my appropriate edit comments when performing further tests on other non-Eglish UI (to restrict more closely the list of pages listed because of language fallbacks). I made many tests (but not you, you did not want to see the effect when using another Language UI).

Below I continued to inform you after you blocked me with an unfair request to the admin notioce board.

Your action is then reported elsewhere (not this wiki), because on this wiki the appeals simply don't work (the few active local admins are both judges and parties, and at that time they ignore every proof even on the page where they post a "notice" like yours here).

We have demontrated that appeals don't work and this wiki is managed by a few admins (like you) that can do all they want at any time, including ongoing discussions, and even hide to the other admin you cantacted the evident proof, like the previous section, and then lie on the fake reason ("disruptive edit") for blocking.

It's a general problem, Commons has no independant arbitration, you abuse your privilage by voluntarily ignoring ongoing discussions between users. verdy_p (talk) 13:53, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

COM:AN/U

Deutsch ∙ English ∙ español ∙ français ∙ italiano ∙ magyar ∙ Nederlands ∙ português ∙ sicilianu ∙ slovenščina ∙ svenska ∙ Tagalog ∙ Tiếng Việt ∙ Türkçe ∙ македонски ∙ русский ∙ मराठी ∙ বাংলা ∙ മലയാളം ∙ 日本語 ∙ 中文（简体） ∙ 中文（繁體） ∙ العربية ∙ +/−

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/User problems#Verdy p. This is in relation to an issue with which you may have been involved.

4nn1l2 (talk) 05:25, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So you abuse the revert and then you've urgently complained, I should have complained first to them for your OWN massive revert that ignored all other users that asked me to do that or thanked me for doing that !

@User:4nn1l2, you should have been blocked for massive disruptive deletion, not me !

verdy_p (talk) 05:51, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Stop lying. Here [1] is your thanks log. Nobody has thanked you for your edit except for User:A.Savin who had complained about this very edit at the thread above(!), most probably because you have explained your edit as you have been asked to do so.

The only edit made by a third user [2] was re-applied [3]. You have been blocked for edit warring and disruptive editing. You should understand that for major changes, you should gain consensus first. 4nn1l2 (talk) 06:06, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's not the correct log there are thanks in other places.

The edit warring was from only from you with your massive revert this morning !!! You've lied by ignoring the talk and suggestions I made to you on the template talk page.

The only single edit I reverted from you was your addition or Russian and Arabic which was not proven to be used in bilingual areas. But I discussed it imemdiately in the tempalte talk page.

If I have then amde many small edits after the initial one, it was because of your message: I had started testing the behaviuor language by language to make sure there were no duplicates and no unexpected regional languages added by existing fallbacks.

Then I propose to you to develop a mmodule that would facilitate the maintenance based on external database facts (non controversial). You ignored the suggestion and used a new argument (6 major UN languages for all English users, but no longer any regard for the native speakers of English).

I had also resolved a bug that I was asked to fix (notably the duplicate occurencee of English in some languages). I was thanked by a German user.

But then you had reverted much more things (so YOU initiated the edit war!). And THIS was very disruptive and damaging, I should have complained first to admins for your massive revert.

verdy_p (talk) 06:35, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

And now you try to gaslight us. Show us those "thanks" or they never happened. 4nn1l2 (talk) 07:16, 27 June 2019 (UTC)66[reply]

Just above your first notification to my page. This cannot be simpler to find (and you did not ignore this discussion because you used it explicitly in one of your edit before this notification)! (there are other thanks on other wikis or in several pages, but not the MediaWiki Thank you feature via notifications, I'm not always named with a link to my page, but this was also reported as correct in several other Village pumps). verdy_p (talk) 14:21, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Your account has been blocked

You have been blocked from editing Commons. The reason for the block is available in the block log as is the name of the administrator who blocked you. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may add {{Unblock}} below this message explaining clearly why you should be unblocked. For more information, see Appealing a block.

--Yann (talk) 05:28, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For reference, see this talk page: Template_talk:Lang-VP, and look at the real disruptive history of what User:4nn1l2 made today in the template (the massive revert, spanning a very long period even before his first talk!). Note that he uses the English UI but is not a native English speaker, but a secondary speaker (en-3 level only), his native language is Persian and he wants to regulate what will be seen by ALL English users (including native speakers in their home regions). He broke what was asked to me to do (I was contacted on other wikis to do that on Commons).

@Yann: ,@Patrick Rogel: The reason given are false ! (note: even the last blocking was not justified as being "disruptive" and the WMF is also already considering my legal appeal for the previous decision and the illegal permanent bookrecord of personal info, attached to added data even if it was false: it is still used incorrectly by admins that don't read the history correctly and can't see that a paast decision was in fact canceled).

I should have complained first about the abuse made jut this morning by User:4nn1l2, he just came first to the admin notice board, but you've misread the history.

The compain made by a single user (4nn1l2) was UNJUSTIFIED. I had not made ANY "disruptive edit" (not now and not even before).

4nn1l2 reverted everything that was approved by many others (I have many "thank you" received for that, the WMF can prove that), he just compained on the fact that he saw some additional languages added before English when using the English UI and visiting the Persian VP.

I have NEVER removed everything like he just did this morning (including things that were approved by others, and things that they asked me to add).

'I complain about this unjustifed block, and because of the disruptive edits made by that single user (not me), using false/unproven assertions to the admin notice board and in the talk page of the template in question (just used to link the Village pumps between each other).

I'm blocked because of a single user not understanding (and using controversial massive deletion) and using FALSE justifications

I appeal again this block and still ask for the removal of past blocks that were also unjustified (used also to get an extremely long period of 3 months).

I ask to admins to block User:4nn1l2, not ME !!! He abused the system (with lies).

I had proposed things to User:4nn1l2 but he ignored that in discussions. He just canceled everything (including edits made by others). Now I ask for help to the many users that thanked me for this **approved changes** (that was in sync with the existing code for "adding a few supplementary relevant languages") !

He complained immediately, after making a MASSIVE revert which was immediately canceled as clearly abusive.

Then he added some languages that were not proven to be used in bilignual countries, BEFORE discussing it: I proved him in talk that his assertion was very doubtful (about UAE and Qatar...).

And then he spoke about adding Marathi and Bengali, but this required first chgecking if they are in bilingual (English+OTHER) regions before adding them to the list of speakers (he forced the addition anyway). Did not accept or understand my senseful argument. He used the force to add everything!

Until now that VP template only considered the user's prefered language, he wanted to use another "global" argument without discussing it first (I asked him to open that discussion with others before adding them by force and then calling you abusively to block me: he REFUSED to open any discussion with VP users).

He was the only user making a disruptive edit and refusing any discussion and ignoring all the opinions sent by other people !

Now all the improvements (including comments to explain how this works) have been lost by his massive revert that you've reapplied blindly, even if they were approved by many others.

I was helpful to many (really!), he just was disruptive. Look at the many "thank you" notifications I received !!!

verdy_p (talk) 05:47, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Unblock request declined

This blocked user asked to be unblocked, but one or more administrators has reviewed and declined this request. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked. Other administrators can also review this block, but should not override the decision without discussion.

Request reason: "For the reasons above. 4nn1l2 lied to admins, by selective omissions and false presentation of facts. He abused the revert canceling edits by multiple users (not just me). And deleted all fixes, and documentation. He was completely alone to complain about the presence of a few languages in his English UI when visiting a non-English page not really designed for English. His use is very specific and uncommon. Please reapply my changes that were approved by many. And block 4nn1l2 instead for his lies."

Decline reason: "per discussion below. COM:BLOCK requires understanding of the issue and a credible commitment to discontinue. You did not provide either of these in the slightest. If you are not prepared to acknowledge that your approach has been inappropriate, and to act on that acknowledgement, you should be prepared to remain blocked. Taivo (talk) 10:45, 13 July 2019 (UTC)"[reply]

Administrators: This template should be removed when the block has expired.

(Block log)
(unblock)
(Change local status for a global block)
(contribs)

Deutsch ∙ English ∙ español ∙ français ∙ hrvatski ∙ magyar ∙ Plattdüütsch ∙ português ∙ Simple English ∙ Tiếng Việt ∙ suomi ∙ svenska ∙ македонски ∙ русский ∙ हिन्दी ∙ 日本語 ∙ 中文（简体） ∙ 中文（繁體） ∙ 中文（臺灣） ∙ +/−

Oppose It is Verdy p who lies. Verdy p claims that many users supported them by thanking them. However, their thanks log [4] says otherwise. The only user who thanked them after their edits to {{Lang-VP}} was User:A.Savin, who indeed had came here to complain about one problem arisen after the introduction of those changes!

Content issues belong to the template talk page. Hence, I don't discuss them here.

Verdy p needs to change their behaviour and respect discussion and cooperation with other users. They have recently been blocked [5] because of disruption. Edit warring and disruptive editing should not be tolerated here on Commons. Cooperation and discipline are above some fancy code. 4nn1l2 (talk) 07:01, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose 4nn1l2 is one of the few admins I hold in high esteem with no past history of telling lies and I don't see the lies you claimed they have told. You are clearly becoming toxic to this community and I think that you should be indefinitely blocked from editing here. I support indefinite block of this user and talk page access removal if they continue to cast aspersions as they did above. Regards. T Cells^Talk 07:20, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't lie, 4nn1l2 misrepresented what he did with his massive revert. I was really asked to do those fix on Commons by several users that thanked me (but not always on this wiki, I was contacted on other wikis to do that because they did not know how to do that correctly).

And this was NOT disruptive like what 4nn1l2 did this morning canceling patiently build tuning, after testing it language by language (excactly because 4nn1l2 raised a possible issue with too many language added for some locales, I had to change a bit the logic after seeing that LangSwitch did not work as expected or included too many language with the "default" option, so I had to manually exclude some of them (and further tuning could still be done with the same tuning.

There's only one small edit from 4nn1l2 that I reverted this morning, but I explained and offered him a proposal to take into account the pagelanguage (which was not done before, and which is still not done at all even now with his massive revert reapplied): I asked hime to open a discussion for that with the relevant VP.

He did not ask anything to the English VP. And not to any other VP channel where he reverted the behavior (which I explained correctly and documented: this documentation was also reverted in the second massive revert made without discussion by 4nn1l2). So 4nn1l2 was alone to complain for his unusual setting (using the English UI for visiting the Persian VP, where most users of theis Persian VP still use the Persian UI...).

With his massive revert he disrupted the improved navigation on ALL other non-English VPs (French, Spanish, German, Dutch) which are no longer linked to their regional languages but ONLY to the English VP.

I took into consideration his comments (notably for VP's in, language that are now redirected like Basque, or Mirandese associated to Portuguese VP or Asturian VP).

I explained that, documented it to keep a trace of what was already done.

Also I was the one that created that template and fixed it long a time ago, and never anyone complained (except 4nn1l2 for his unusual setting, not using the Persian UI but still looking at some links shown when he visits the Persian VP). The logic for adding regional languages was ALREDY present since very long (at least between Chinese and Serbian variants, even if they were still not complete) and it is still there. So this was not a "radical" or "disruptive" change.

And I maintain I was asked to do that: my first recent edit about it (that is now reverted completely) was because I was contacted directly on my talk page to do that fix (including the duplicate appearance of English in the dispalyed list with some user languages) ! That user that asked me it has thanked me for the change! and no one complained for days until 4nn1l2 came to signal a possible caveat (that I offered him to fix but by first discussing it: he did not discuss, and forced the change and immediately complained to admins that don't know the real history).

Let me search for the user that asked me that: it's just above in this page at #Village Pump headers, just before the unfair request made by "4nn1l2" that could not ignore it). Who lies ? verdy_p (talk) 07:54, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

After that I made an important change for the Template:Geogroup (see above as well) with "thank you" posted publicly as well. verdy_p (talk) 13:45, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: my first block (4 years ago) was because I requested a change that was incorrectly applied (even if I correctly documetned it). Then later another user asked exactly the same solution I exposed, and it was applied exactly like what I documented and demonstrated (and it was requested on exactly the same page as my initial edit request to admins and applied exactly like what I initially asked). So that 2-days block was clearly unjustified (by an admin that did not read the request), but it was kept indefinitely. (So the "block history" does not explain all, the reasons given are kept indefinitely, unfairly, and even illegally because it contains personal identifiable data: this violates the GDPR law and that's why there's a formal request to the WMF about it in Meta, with an open discussion).
The second block was also made by someone making false assertions, it was appealed but not answered at all before its end. And it has also been kept indefnitely even if it was wrong.
Now this block is made by someone using disruptive massive revert (even if he is completely alone to have complained and I proposed him to discuss a solution). What he initially made was even disruptive and made without discussion (adding Russian to all English users, even if they limited the list to jsut show a shorter variant instead of the full list of languages: I had correctly applied their past decision to make it work as they wanted: i.e. by using the language user only, but still not the page language: I proposed to 4nn1l2 to add a language parametert allowing the template to know on which VP page it is displayed; he ignored that suggestion and insisted on applying the Russian and Arabic additions for all English users, without demosntrating that English users needed these languages in really bilingual regions).

So there was a start of discussion, and 4nn1l2 jsut ignored it and decided to delete everything (including past fixes that were requested to me).

How can you say I am "toxic" to this wiki when I (but not 4nn1l2 ) follow its existing rules ? Instead of discussing, he just forced the situation by urgently noticing first the admin board before I could do it myself about his own behavior (his massive revert, that followed another smaller revert that I really took into account). verdy_p (talk) 08:18, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The reason given for the "decline" is also false. (and there's nothing in COM:BLOCK that suggest something I could have forgotten). So the extreme measure of blocking me, even if I did not disrupt anything or anyone (except that admin that decided alone to delete pages massively without any form of community consultation). I consistantly applied all the existing rules. I'm treated as if I had made repeated copyvios, or posted spams, or voluntarily wanted to break something (which in fact has never occured). There were legitimate reason for changing a single incorrect redirection page to a soft redirect (showing alternate directions) because this had effectively caused errors of classifications of contents in this wiki (pages/medias were categorized to the wrong place because of this incorrect hard redirect, and this happens from any user or directly when using the image upload wizard (that immediately replaces the target of these redirect links and then suggests bad places when a user types an ambiguous name which has such incorrect redirect). So I did not violate any rule and my edit was consistant with existing common practices (approved since long) and it solved cleanly and correctly a real, effective bug on that single page name, avoiding further errors made by anyone on this wiki.

How can I "acknowledge" that I made something wrong or my approach was inappropriate, when I asked explictly the reason, and the policy that applies to it, and no one was able to provide it? If I made something wrong, please explain, because this decision cannot be understood at all. I made what was appropriate: discussing, asking. But the admin that blocked me refused that and chose to apply his own pseudo-policy that is found nowhere. You don't provide the beginning of any answer to these legitimate questions, that I (or anyone else) would be able to acknowledge.

Visibly, once again, You try to find fake reasons after facts and you seem now to accept a decision made purely by one admin that did not ask the extension of his power to enforce a "rule" that has never existed, was never documented, was never discussed openly. verdy_p (talk) 18:54, 13 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

And if even I had forgotten something for that single edit, this does not merit a full blocking and there was no damages caused, even that admin could have decided to delete that page silently without blocking me for this highly contestable reason, that contradicts the public Wikimedia goals, transforming this wiki in a wiki owned by a few of its admins making all they want, and deciding to block anyone with invented reasons and deleting massive contents without any open community decision.

Which "commitment to not continue something" can I even make ? There's never been any such detail about things I "must not do" (because this would match a community policy that no one is able to find). verdy_p (talk) 19:06, 13 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Even if this blocking is terminated, I will still contest indefinitely that self-asserted authoritary decision based on falsified facts and presentation by this single admin user, 4nn1l2, abusing his right with a non-existent and toxic policy. I never abused any rule and never made any "deceptive" or "disrupting" edit as it was stated.

But that admin made (and continues to make) abusive massive deletion without any right to do that. He never presented any proof about his claimed "policy" that was never discussed openly.

He claimed that I should "stop doing something" (without ever explaining what it could legitimetely be). Rejecting my unblock request was also incorrectly analyzed for the only thing I did: a single non-deceptive page with links created to solve a real, constant and recurring misclassification problem that I wanted to solve clearly and non-disruptively (I never broke the work of anyone, like what 4nn1l2 did repeatedly and abusively. I have NEVER made any disruptive edit as claimed (and the history is then false: all these past decisions were wrong and not justified, this was even proven after each of them). verdy_p (talk) 10:20, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:History_of_the_Americas_by_century

Category:History_of_the_Americas_by_century has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category.

In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

čeština ∙ Deutsch ∙ English ∙ español ∙ français ∙ italiano ∙ magyar ∙ Nederlands ∙ português ∙ polski ∙ sicilianu ∙ slovenščina ∙ Tiếng Việt ∙ беларуская (тарашкевіца) ∙ македонски ∙ русский ∙ українська ∙ ತುಳು ∙ ಕನ್ನಡ ∙ ไทย ∙ עברית ∙ 日本語 ∙ 中文 ∙ +/−

Auntof6 (talk) 09:25, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

User talk:Verdy p

107.77.169.2 14:45, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Invalid request from malicious anon IP making false statements.

He made multiple edits then reverted them partly to make such statements. All edits made by this IP (in various accounts and pages, including illegal changes of valid licencing in image files) were reverted by multiple users because they were all invalid. That IP is clearly abusing. verdy_p (talk) 14:59, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Education_in_the_European_Union_by_country

Education in the European Union by country has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category.

In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

čeština ∙ Deutsch ∙ English ∙ español ∙ français ∙ italiano ∙ magyar ∙ Nederlands ∙ português ∙ polski ∙ sicilianu ∙ slovenščina ∙ Tiếng Việt ∙ беларуская (тарашкевіца) ∙ македонски ∙ русский ∙ українська ∙ ತುಳು ∙ ಕನ್ನಡ ∙ ไทย ∙ עברית ∙ 日本語 ∙ 中文 ∙ +/−

Themightyquill (talk) 15:23, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Organizations_of_the_European_Union_by_country

Category:Organizations_of_the_European_Union_by_country has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category.

In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

čeština ∙ Deutsch ∙ English ∙ español ∙ français ∙ italiano ∙ magyar ∙ Nederlands ∙ português ∙ polski ∙ sicilianu ∙ slovenščina ∙ Tiếng Việt ∙ беларуская (тарашкевіца) ∙ македонски ∙ русский ∙ українська ∙ ತುಳು ∙ ಕನ್ನಡ ∙ ไทย ∙ עברית ∙ 日本語 ∙ 中文 ∙ +/−

Themightyquill (talk) 15:28, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Community Insights Survey

Share your experience in this survey

Hi Verdy p/archive15,

The Wikimedia Foundation is asking for your feedback in a survey about your experience with Wikimedia Commons and Wikimedia. The purpose of this survey is to learn how well the Foundation is supporting your work on wiki and how we can change or improve things in the future. The opinions you share will directly affect the current and future work of the Wikimedia Foundation.

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Sincerely,

RMaung (WMF) 01:16, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Loves Monuments France 2019

Bonjour,

Le concours Wiki Loves Monuments France est de retour et ouvert jusqu'à 31 septembre ! Déjà 8310 photos ont été importés cette année, vous aussi rejoignez le concours !

Le concours concerne tous les monuments présents dans la base Mérimée (qu'ils soient classés, inscrits ou simplement classés). De l'imposant château aux ruines industrielles, de la chapelle au coin de la rue aux mégalithes en forêt, c'est un impressionnant patrimoine qui attend d'être photographié et documenté. Où que vous soyez il y a des monuments autour de chez vous. Enfin, vous pouvez mettre en ligne autant de photos que vous le souhaitez de ces monuments. Pour information, le règlement est disponible sur le site du concours. Nous attendons vos photos avec impatience !

Les plus belles photos seront sélectionnées par un jury national composé d'amateurs et de professionnels, de contributeurs à Wikimedia Commons et d'acteurs du patrimoine. Un jury international sélectionnera ensuite des meilleures photographies mondiales.

Si vous avez des questions, l'équipe organisatrice se fera un plaisir d'y répondre.

P.S. : vous recevez ce message parce que vous avez participé au concours Wiki Loves Monuments en France les années précédentes. Si vous avez déjà ou si ne pouvez pas participer au concours cette année, faites passer le message autour de vous pour que de nouveaux et nouvelles photographes rejoignent l'aventure !

Bonne journée,

Sarah Krichen WMFr et Nicolas Vigneron, pour l'équipe de Wiki Loves Monuments France, 14:52, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CFD on Category:Guarda (district)

Stop removing the CFD template from this category. It doesn't matter how old the discussion is: the discussion is still open. If you remove the template again, I will report you to the administrators. --Auntof6 (talk) 08:42, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

STOP ??? 5 years of statu quo, and no talk at all. Old banners set by a single user with no support and even oppositions, are just pollutions.

And your request is inconsistant for that single page, when the request was in fact for an unrelated page in Switzerland. The naming are in place since ever for all districts in Portugal, and then if you propose something for Portugal it should be done in a separate request. The old request is not valid.

I've not abused anything, unmaintained banners for so many years are just pollutions and subject to normal deletion (this jsut goes to archives...). And this deletion was validated years ago. You are in fact reintroducing it without adding anything justifying it. Make a new request if you have new arguments, this talk was terminated since long.

And any attempt to change it now would require much more work in many other pages. verdy_p (talk) 16:10, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is a process for closing a COM:CFD, and the banner should be removed as a part of that due process being completed. Since that has not been done for this category, it is inappropriate to simply remove the banner while the CfD remains open. On a side note, the fact that several pages are impacted by a discussion is not in any way a reason to dismiss said discussion. Josh (talk) 00:35, 7 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

But the CFD gives delays that have been extremely exhausted without any action. As well the request did not receive support from anyone except the initiator. It was not valid without talking about the list of impacted pages and without informing the Portuguese community in any way (I have just added some resons to the talk page of this CFD). Banners in Wikis are obstructing everything, those posting them and not following them are creating a severe nuisance in the wiki for everyone (banners like this one look exactly like junk spam, here it does not help anyone but just hurt, notably when they appear at top of page as if they were urgent). I don't see any kind of severity problem about how that page was named as there was no ambiguity at all. Such banner should not be in the category itself but in its associated talk page, as this is just an information about informal talk without real action being taken since very long. verdy_p (talk) 07:01, 7 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Americasestablishmentdecade

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CptViraj (📧) 15:06, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Neighborhoods_in_the_Americas

Category:Neighborhoods_in_the_Americas has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category.

In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

čeština ∙ Deutsch ∙ English ∙ español ∙ français ∙ italiano ∙ magyar ∙ Nederlands ∙ português ∙ polski ∙ sicilianu ∙ slovenščina ∙ Tiếng Việt ∙ беларуская (тарашкевіца) ∙ македонски ∙ русский ∙ українська ∙ ತುಳು ∙ ಕನ್ನಡ ∙ ไทย ∙ עברית ∙ 日本語 ∙ 中文 ∙ +/−

Themightyquill (talk) 11:59, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Revolutions_in_the_Americas

Category:Revolutions_in_the_Americas has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category.

In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

čeština ∙ Deutsch ∙ English ∙ español ∙ français ∙ italiano ∙ magyar ∙ Nederlands ∙ português ∙ polski ∙ sicilianu ∙ slovenščina ∙ Tiếng Việt ∙ беларуская (тарашкевіца) ∙ македонски ∙ русский ∙ українська ∙ ತುಳು ∙ ಕನ್ನಡ ∙ ไทย ∙ עברית ∙ 日本語 ∙ 中文 ∙ +/−

Themightyquill (talk) 12:05, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Copyright_rules_in_the_Americas

Category:Copyright_rules_in_the_Americas has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category.

In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

čeština ∙ Deutsch ∙ English ∙ español ∙ français ∙ italiano ∙ magyar ∙ Nederlands ∙ português ∙ polski ∙ sicilianu ∙ slovenščina ∙ Tiếng Việt ∙ беларуская (тарашкевіца) ∙ македонски ∙ русский ∙ українська ∙ ತುಳು ∙ ಕನ್ನಡ ∙ ไทย ∙ עברית ∙ 日本語 ∙ 中文 ∙ +/−

Themightyquill (talk) 12:05, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Travel_in_the_Americas

Category:Travel_in_the_Americas has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category.

In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

čeština ∙ Deutsch ∙ English ∙ español ∙ français ∙ italiano ∙ magyar ∙ Nederlands ∙ português ∙ polski ∙ sicilianu ∙ slovenščina ∙ Tiếng Việt ∙ беларуская (тарашкевіца) ∙ македонски ∙ русский ∙ українська ∙ ತುಳು ∙ ಕನ್ನಡ ∙ ไทย ∙ עברית ∙ 日本語 ∙ 中文 ∙ +/−

Themightyquill (talk) 12:11, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Organizations_of_the_Americas

Organizations of the Americas has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category.

In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

čeština ∙ Deutsch ∙ English ∙ español ∙ français ∙ italiano ∙ magyar ∙ Nederlands ∙ português ∙ polski ∙ sicilianu ∙ slovenščina ∙ Tiếng Việt ∙ беларуская (тарашкевіца) ∙ македонски ∙ русский ∙ українська ∙ ತುಳು ∙ ಕನ್ನಡ ∙ ไทย ∙ עברית ∙ 日本語 ∙ 中文 ∙ +/−

Themightyquill (talk) 12:16, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Google Code-In 2019 is coming - please mentor some documentation tasks!

Hello,

Google Code-In, Google-organized contest in which the Wikimedia Foundation participates, starts in a few weeks. This contest is about taking high school students into the world of opensource. I'm sending you this message because you recently edited a documentation page at Wikimedia Commons.

I would like to ask you to take part in Google Code-In as a mentor. That would mean to prepare at least one task (it can be documentation related, or something else - the other categories are Code, Design, Quality Assurance and Outreach) for the participants, and help the student to complete it. Please sign up at the contest page and send us your Google account address to google-code-in-admins@lists.wikimedia.org, so we can invite you in!

From my own experience, Google Code-In can be fun, you can make several new friends, attract new people to your wiki and make them part of your community.

If you have any questions, please let us know at google-code-in-admins@lists.wikimedia.org.

Thank you!

--User:Martin Urbanec (talk) 22:04, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Bridges_in_Latin_America

Category:Bridges_in_Latin_America has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category.

In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

čeština ∙ Deutsch ∙ English ∙ español ∙ français ∙ italiano ∙ magyar ∙ Nederlands ∙ português ∙ polski ∙ sicilianu ∙ slovenščina ∙ Tiếng Việt ∙ беларуская (тарашкевіца) ∙ македонски ∙ русский ∙ українська ∙ ತುಳು ∙ ಕನ್ನಡ ∙ ไทย ∙ עברית ∙ 日本語 ∙ 中文 ∙ +/−

Themightyquill (talk) 09:52, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Exclude redirects

Hi, I was trying to update Template:States of Mexico navi and a question arose: Category:México (state) redirects to Category:Mexico (state). I would like to include this alternate spelling but I do not want the redirect to show up in the navbox. Is there a way to exclude {{category redirect|}} pages from navboxes? Best, mr.choppers (talk)^-en- 21:34, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The links are tested in the order specified by the list of names in the data module. When there are several aliases, they should be consistant across all uses so that you can designate a main name (without redirect) and the aliases kept only for compatibility when there are no redirects for composed names. Usually these aliases should use the official local name on Commons. So ask yourself : whoch name do you want to use as primary in articles/categories, "Mexico (state)", or "México (state)"? Note that the disambiguation suffix in parentheses does not matter about the language it uses.

All aliases listed in the data module, the first one that matches will generate a link. But there's NO test to load these found pages and determine if these are redirects (too costly on the server, which unfortunately still does not have a simple metadata to test if parsed pages are redirects. Loading pages/articles to parse them in the module takes too much time nad uses too much memory, and paghes that are redirects should be more easily testable, given they are already parsed when saving them.

Whatever primary name you use, it must be consistant across all derived names (like "Churches in Mexico (state)" or "Churches in México (state)", and "Cities in "Mexico state", and this should apply as well to articles/galleries, or category names. Choose then the primary name, select it in the data module, then make redirects consistantly for the aliases to the primary name chosen. verdy_p (talk) 22:11, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: initially there was no such problem of redirect but the main category (only this one) was renamed in May 2019 to remove the accent. One simpel way would be to reverse the redirect that was done inconsistantly. But a redirect is still a minor problem. verdy_p (talk) 22:13, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As most pages were renamed without the accent, I changed the template to link to the pages without accent. Note: with "all=1" parameter, all aliases are shown (without testing the existence, so they may be red links); for normal usage (outside temporarily when unifying the links or checking missing ones), "all=1" should not be used. verdy_p (talk) 22:56, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I understand. Yes, I think it useful to see all links at the template page. Best, mr.choppers (talk)^-en- 11:54, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

User talk:Verdy p/archive15

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Category:History_of_the_Americas_by_century

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Category:Education_in_the_European_Union_by_country

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Community Insights Survey

Wiki Loves Monuments France 2019

CFD on Category:Guarda (district)

Template:Americasestablishmentdecade

Category:Neighborhoods_in_the_Americas

Category:Revolutions_in_the_Americas

Category:Copyright_rules_in_the_Americas

Category:Travel_in_the_Americas

Category:Organizations_of_the_Americas

Google Code-In 2019 is coming - please mentor some documentation tasks!

Category:Bridges_in_Latin_America

Exclude redirects

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User talk:Verdy p/archive15

Location of navboxes and category sort keys

Sort keys

Template:Geogroup fixed

Village Pump headers

Edit warring

COM:AN/U

Your account has been blocked

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Wiki Loves Monuments France 2019

CFD on Category:Guarda (district)

Google Code-In 2019 is coming - please mentor some documentation tasks!

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