Wikidata:Property proposal/depicted format
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depicted format
[edit]Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work
| Description | property to help describe the format type of depicted subject, commonly confused with genre |
|---|---|
| Represents | work of art (Q838948) |
| Data type | Item |
| Domain | work of art (Q838948) |
| Allowed values | item |
| Example 1 | Jester with lute (Q9850868) → half-length portrait (Q18809572) |
| Example 2 | Panoramic View of Haarlem (Q20968305) → panorama (Q41363) |
| Example 3 | Bird’s-eye View of Amsterdam (Q17558353) → bird's-eye view (Q1153655) |
| Example 4 | The Trumpetter (Q30133212) → niche painting (Q85303076) |
| Planned use | paintings, but also sculpture (e.g. bust) |
| Expected completeness | never complete |
| See also | genre (P136) |
Motivation
[edit]Initially I just wanted this for portraits (full-length, half-length, bust, etc) but quickly realized the usage could be more than that. Jane023 (talk) 12:08, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
Notified participants of WikiProject Visual arts. So I changed the formats bust (Q241045), three-quarter portrait (Q18809567), half-length portrait (Q18809572), full-length portrait (Q18809626) to reflect that they refer to form, and not genre and linked to their respective categories. Next step is to ask a bot to change all paintings linking to them as genre to change them to this new property when created. See "what links here" on those items to see current mistakes.
Discussion
[edit]
Comment. I've been thinking about this for a while. I am mostly supportive of the proposal but I think we should probably exchange a few words whatever. Mostly about the scope of this. Eventually, we'll need to cover framing (Q204794), but also camera angle (Q450539), etc. Should this be dealt with only one property? Should there be multiple new ones? I'd like to be able to store statements with values such as Dutch angle (Q584085), foreshortening (Q3415995), etc. Is one catch-all property the way to go? I suppose but maybe we should give it second thoughts. Thierry Caro (talk) 17:21, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
- Yes this is an ongoing discussion, and no, this proposal does not try to solve everything. As far as frames go, we recently introduced image with frame (P7420), which I have been using when applicable. We still need a property for the form of the physical painted surface (e.g. oval, round, hexagonal, portrait vs landscape, etc). Jane023 (talk) 18:01, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
- Maybe shape (P1419) with qualifiers? Whatever, I was not speaking about physical frames (those that are often in wood) but about framing defined as the choice by the artist of the piece of space that is actually depicted. That framing (Q204794) could have a standalone property with values such as half-length portrait (Q18809572). camera angle (Q450539) could have another property with values such as Dutch angle (Q584085), low-angle shot (Q2141207) or foreshortening (Q3415995). And then there could be something for lighting (Q210064) with values such as natural light (Q85214866), contre-jour (Q660281), etc. Or maybe we could have everything under one property? Thierry Caro (talk) 18:16, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
- Yes this is an ongoing discussion, and no, this proposal does not try to solve everything. As far as frames go, we recently introduced image with frame (P7420), which I have been using when applicable. We still need a property for the form of the physical painted surface (e.g. oval, round, hexagonal, portrait vs landscape, etc). Jane023 (talk) 18:01, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
- Comment the vague, open-ended nature of this property could cause confusion and/or messiness. Would every value also need a new designation as subclass of "format (Q2085518)"? And in Example 4, niche (Q695992) seems to refer to the architectural element depicted in the image, not the format itself. -Animalparty (talk) 21:29, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
- I agree that the fourth example should be removed. The authorized values should all be subclasses of image-related items. I don't know which item in particular should be the grandfather item but you get the point. The property should not have as a value an architectural element or whatever else, just things related to ways of depicting stuff. Thierry Caro (talk) 21:50, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry, the term "niche"definitely reflects a painting format but the item just reflected the architectural element. Changed it to a new item (see linked commons category for examples) niche painting (Q85303076). Jane023 (talk) 13:55, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
- I agree that the fourth example should be removed. The authorized values should all be subclasses of image-related items. I don't know which item in particular should be the grandfather item but you get the point. The property should not have as a value an architectural element or whatever else, just things related to ways of depicting stuff. Thierry Caro (talk) 21:50, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
Support. Otherwise nothing is ever gonna happen because of me. Thierry Caro (talk) 14:35, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks. We have been working on this of course very slowly and carefully, but meanwhile we are approaching a half-million paintings. Maybe this would help if I also proposed one at the same time for the physical format (tondo, oval, miniature, portrait/landscape)? I am currently trying to work on genre and see a lot of strange data collecting in there. Your point about camera angle is also important (especially regarding SDoC). Jane023 (talk) 14:46, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
- Support, important information for art.--Arbnos (talk) 16:24, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
- Support --Trade (talk) 16:30, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
- Could apply here form of creative work (P7937)? --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 02:49, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
- No, but that could be a possible solution for the "physical painted surface" problem I mentioned above in my comment of 15 February. Jane023 (talk) 13:39, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
- @Jane023, Thierry Caro, Animalparty, Arbnos:
Done --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 16:08, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
