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Vibration II Certification: Confusion

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david dane 05-12-2008 06:16
DD
I am trying to figure out what the industry considers to be a Level II vibration analyst. One
training ...

1. Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

DD
david dane
Posted 05-12-2008 06:16 Reply Reply Privately

I am trying to figure out what the industry considers to be a Level II vibration analyst.

One training group says:

Level I is: ASNT: IIA and ISO II

Level II is: ASNT: IIB and ISO III

The other says:

Level II is: ASNT II and ISO II AMP Member Zone:
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It seems that I have struck a nerve somewhere cause I can't find anyone who can give me a straight answer.
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Please help. Directory

Signed, Level I.5, II or II.5 Analyst - I can't figure it out. Thanks. My Profile

2. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

SP
Sam Pickens
Posted 05-13-2008 03:46 Reply Reply Privately

If you can't figure it out; then I'd say you're a level 1.

If someone says you're really good and can probably solve most any problem - then you're probably a
level 4. If you say you are really good and can solve most any problem - then you're probably a level 2. If
you are pretty sure you can solve most problems but know someone better than you - then you're
probably a level 3.

3. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

DD
david dane
Posted 05-13-2008 05:21 Reply Reply Privately

Sam,

Thats a mighty tall horse your sitting on. We just noticed that two seperate training companies have 2
different ASNT guide lines listed for their Level 2 vibration course. We would just like to know what the
industry standard is.

Regards, Dave Dane

4. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 1 Recommend

JT
Jason Tranter
Posted 05-13-2008 06:12
 Reply Reply Privately AMP Member Zone:
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It is a good question.
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I should first declare who I am. My name is Jason Tranter. I am the founder of Mobius Institute and the
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author of iLearnVibration - just so you know where this answer is coming from.
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The short answer is that you need to talk to the body that certified you and look at their specification. You
may have been certified Level I, II or III, or Category I, II, III, or IV.

Here is a longer answer...

What I am about to write is my personal opinion, but it is also the way we decided to implement training
and certification within the Mobius Institute.

There is not a simple answer because there are two different "standards"; there is the ISO "18436-2
standard" and there is the ASNT "Recommended practice" (Note that ASNT certification is employer
based certification). The ISO standard has four levels (actually, they are called "Categories") and the
ASNT Recommended Practice has three "Levels".

The ISO standard describes the amount of training required for the four categories (and the experience
required) as well as the topics that need to be covered. The ASNT describes their three levels in a similar
way (i.e. they define topics and experience). The ISO standard requires more training hours than can be
delivered in three days, for example. You need 32 hours for Category I, another 38 hours for Category II,
and another 40 hours for Category III. That's why our courses are 4 days (Category I) and 4 ½ days (Cat
II and III) – and we supplement the classroom training with on-line training (via our Learning Zone, using
iLearnVibration).

So, point number one is that some companies have aligned their training to ASNT IIA and IIB because they
only offer three-day courses. There is actually no such thing as Level IIA or IIB - it simply denotes that
you need two courses and exams to reach Level II.

The other issue is that we took a long look at the Category I standard and believed that, while the topic list
is rather basic, the requirements of the Cat I person, and the expectations of people who are coming for
training, was less basic. Category I is the course that all vibration analysts begin with, and it is the course
that other maintenance professionals will attend to get a heads-up on vibration analysis and condition
monitoring. So we teach above the ISO standard – we cover topics that we know people need at that
level. We are able to do that because our simulators and animations make it very easy for people to grasp
the basics. So we deliberately teach them more than required under the ISO standard – and that coincides
with the ASNT's Level I. So, we now consider that our Category I course is equal to the requirements laid
down in the ASNT Recommended Practice for Level I.

The same can be said for our Category II course. The ISO standard provides a very good description,
however we have evolved the course into a set of topics that the average vibration analyst needs – for
example it includes time waveform analysis and enveloping, topics that the ISO standard considers are
Category III topics – but what analyst does not need to understand those topics? So our topic list matches
ASNT Level II.

And, as you may guess, we did the same for Category III. In the ISO world, Category IV is the highest
level. While the Category IV subject list covers topics such as modal, ODS and dynamics in general, it also
includes some really heavy rotor dynamics topics that, in my opinion, are only relevant to the hard-core
turbine/sleeve bearing guys (who will probably go to Bently Nevada for training). So, again, we have
drawn down a few topics from Category IV into our Category III course so that the Category III analysts
can handle ˜everything' that the normal vibration analyst/program manager must face. (It covers
orbits/centerline diagrams, etc. as well, but not anywhere near the depth that would
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Category IV, or in a Bently course.) So, again it matches the ASNT Level III description. Remember, we Communities
teach for 4 ½ days, supplemented by on-line training, and we have very powerful simulators that
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completely explain dynamics (and much more) – people ˜get it' far more quickly.
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I hope that answers the question. I can only answer the question on behalf of Mobius Institute. We initially
used Level IIA and IIB, but we revised the course and re-aligned our training and certification levels. And,
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to repeat something I said earlier, I think we are in a unique position to do that because we supplement
our training with self-study iLearnVibration, our courses are longer than most, and we use 3D animations
and software simulators that significantly improves what can be taught in a course.

I hope that clarifies our position at least.

Jason

5. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

SP
Sam Pickens
Posted 05-13-2008 06:17 Reply Reply Privately

17 hands but don't let the boots and hat fool you.

It is Friday ain't it? Have fun and enjoy!

6. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

KC
Kenneth Culverson
Posted 05-13-2008 08:32 Reply Reply Privately

Dave,

I am a member of ISO technical committee 108, subcommittee 5 which is responsible for the development
of the ISO 18436 series documents. These documents are designed to lay out the requirements for
certification (18436-1), training organizations (18436-3) and technical knowledge (18436-2, 18436-4,
18436-5, 18436-6, 18436-7) in various disciplines associated with condition monitoring of machines.

ISO 18436-2 lays out the MINIMUM requirements for knowledge and experience required for each
category in the field of vibration. Category I is a data gatherer. This category was added at the request of
some countries with developing economies that could not justify having everyone involved in vibration
being trained as an analyst. The knowledge requirements are cumulative so the knowledge of a Category
I is included in Category II, etc. Most people will start at the Category II level which is similar to the ASNT
Level 1. It follows that Category III is similar to ASNT Level 2 and so on.
ISO 18436-1 and ISO 18436-2 are undergoing systematic review and will be modified to bringZone:
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conformity with the rest of the series and to align them with new ISO guidelines. Communities

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I might also remind members of these boards that ISO documents are copyrighted, even the working
documents that preceed the issuance of a standard. Directory

Ken Culverson My Profile

7. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

WF
William Foiles
Posted 05-14-2008 06:05 Reply Reply Privately

I give a category IV level course on rotordynamics in the summer for the Vibration Institute; Bently
Nevada (or even the VI) isn't the only place to go for this type of training. With the name rotordynamics
you can assume that has something to do with the course content. It is not all turbines and sleeve
bearings. Not everyone will take the course, nor does everyone need to take it – It is also the case that
not everyone who takes the exam passes, but isn't it that way with life.

It is my understanding that under ISO anyone can ˜self declare' themselves to be competent and
knowledgeable about the technical knowledge in the mentioned standards. To some extent this was
needed for some of those less developed areas of the world.

Following this logic, it should also be within the rules for a self declared Category X to then certify others,
and they would be certified by an independent party.

It seemed to me that TC 108 did not have the jurisdiction to control certification requirements, since this
falls under a different group (I believe the quality part.).

So, the bottom line as to what industry considers a Level II analyst may be up to arguement.

8. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

OU
OJ Utter
Posted 05-14-2008 06:58 Reply Reply Privately

Dave-

Here is my short and skinny on this. I have attended CSI training and Vibration Institute. I have also
researched as you are about the ISO and ASNT (ie.. Technical Associates and Mobius (who happens to
be teaching with very good former CSI instructors)). The question is are you looking at what path to take
in your future training or how to clarify where your current certification lies within these standards. The
second question would be what kind of a facility are you operating in. Unless you are planning on going
overseas or doing a lot of your analysis on paper and calculating long hand I personally suggest
AMP Member Zone:going the
ASNT route. I know that they do some long hand stuff too but just have heard and read that it is moreCommunities
practical. Both TA and Mobius courses are highly recommended. If on the other hand you like to do things
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the long way and working with vibration from many different sources or are working with old equipment
then the ISO path would be the way to go. Arguing which standard is better is very open to opinion andDirectory
industry. I believe you should ask what is your eventual goal. If it is the certification that is one thing. If it
is analyzing data that is another and I personally believe I would start down the ANST/TA/Mobius path.MyI Profile
have heard that the TA class is a bit rushed. I haven't heard about the advanced Mobius but Jason has
done a good job with his product and continues to advance it. And no I don't receive anything from them
for saying that. I just regard training students as a major key to program success. The person behind the
machine is what makes it valuable.

9. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

DD
david dane
Posted 05-14-2008 07:37 Reply Reply Privately

Hello,

Thanks for the detailed responses. I agree that all the certifications and degrees do not make a good
analyst but corporate guidelines tell us in our particular PDM program that we must be at a certain
certification level. That is why I posed this question.

Best Regards, Dave Dane

10. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

KC
Kenneth Culverson
Posted 05-14-2008 10:54 Reply Reply Privately

Bill,

ISO does not and will not mandate certification in it's standards but if certification is desired, then the
process is spelled out in ISO 17025. The document is part of a series produced by CASCO, the
commmittee on conformity assessment. Other technical committees are allowed to add to these
requirements if it is felt to be necessary and TC 108/SC 5 has done. ISO 17025 is somewhat involved and
rather dry reading, I have spent most of the past year wrestling with these documents attempting to
correct some terminology which has been done with ISO 18436-3:2008 Condition monitoring and
diagnostics of machines - Requirements for qualification and assessment of personnel - Part 3:
Requirements for training bodies and the training process. As I stated earlier, work is underway to bring
ISO 18436-1 and ISO 18436-2 into agreement with the new terminology and will be addressed at our next
meeting.
Self declaration is not sufficient to become an independant third party for certification purposes.
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Ken Culverson
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11. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

WF
William Foiles
Posted 05-14-2008 12:30 Reply Reply Privately

What in 17025 prohibits a self declared party to be an independent third party?

Not all of this document relates to a training organization. It says little with regard to third party entities.
What relates are 'quality' issues like management, document control, etc.

The document does say (perhaps with some translation [spelling corrections] from English to American):

“
quote:
If the laboratory wishes to be recognized as a third-party laboratory, it should be able to
demonstrate that it is
impartial and that it and its personnel are free from any undue commercial, financial and
other pressures which might influence their technical judgment. The third-party testing or
calibration laboratory should not engage in any activities that may endanger the trust in

”
its independence of judgment and integrity in relation to its testing or calibration activities.

This may be difficult to fulfill for some vendors, who may have an interest in their students/clients being
certified.

As I recall CASCO sent someone to talk to the working group last year on this.

12. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

KC
Kenneth Culverson
Posted 05-19-2008 06:57 Reply Reply Privately

Bill,

I blew the reference completely. The correct number is ISO/IEC 17024:2003 Confomrity assessment -
General requirements for bodies operating certification of persons. Yes, CASCO AMP
finally sent aZone:
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representative to our meeting in Prague and also to the meeting in Paris. We got concurrence from them
on the changed wording.
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13. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

WF
William Foiles
Posted 05-19-2008 12:44 Reply Reply Privately

Ok, so what in 17024 says a person can't self declare, etc.?

Among the items in 17024 is the following.

“
quote:
The criteria against which the competence of a person is evaluated shall be those defined
by the
certification body in accordance with this International Standard and other relevant
documents. If explanation
is required as to the application of these documents to a specific certification scheme, it
shall be developed by

”
experts, endorsed by the scheme committee, and published by the certification body.

Is everyone who issues certificates a certification body? And how did they become such a body in the
first place? Do you think that any of the people issuing certificates, just set themselves up to do so? If so,
what is wrong with that as defined by you ISO reference?

Another paragraph talks about the credibility of the certification body. This may be the key, along with the
impartiality that is specified.

14. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

MT
mac trew
Posted 05-22-2008 05:52 Reply Reply Privately

its just like having WBF & IBF 2 diff body but having same vision
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15. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend
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JT
Jason Tranter
Posted 05-23-2008 06:22 Reply Reply Privately

I would like to add a few more comments (I have been away for a week).

First, I don't think we can necessarily characterize "ISO training" as being any different to "ASNT training"
when it comes to the amount of theoretical content or the unecessary use of calculators. The training
company delivering the course has a certain degree of flexibility and will decide how much time to spend
with calculations in order to deliver the required training.

I have my personal views about the topic; I am not sure if they are appropriate here. Let's just say that I
do think it is important for people to "understand" vibration (the forces in the machine that generate the
vibration patterns; why we get harmonics and sidebands; how enveloping works; certain signal
processing issues; and other topics that could be considered theoretical), but a) it is always important to
relate these concepts to the real-world issues faced by the analysts, and b) while a few calculations are
helpful to explain certain facts, and to avoid people blindly following analyzer instructions without
understanding what's really going on, I don't personally believe that it is necessary to spend too much
time dealing with calculations - especially when you consider that most vibration analysts never have to
perform these calculations in their job (especially in Category I and II).

Second, the question of self certification, and conflict of interest, is a very important one.

I would like to make a general comment as an organization that both trains and certifies. There is the
implication that we have a motivation to let people pass the exam. I could also argue that we could be
motivated to fail people; if it meant we could charge for additional training or examinations. In fact, we are
only motivated to train and certify analysts to ensure that they can do the best possible job - they must be
able to do their jobs with confidence and competance.

My personal feeling is that the marketplace is the only judge of these things. If too many people pass (or
fail), then you get a bad reputation. If people employ certified analysts and they can't do their job, then
you get a bad reputation. If you bend the rules, and do not employ strict quality control and document
control, then it will all unravel very quickly. When you have training centers all over the world, and you
deal in so many languages and customs, if the ethics and quality are not there, you will be found out very
quickly.

In our case I can say that we work very hard to follow part 1 and 2 of the ISO 18436-2 standard; and we
ensure that the training companies follow part 3. (Part 1 of the standard relates to certification; how to
behave as a certification organization. It is based on 17024 for certification of personnel, as mentioned in
a previous post).

It is true that 'anyone' can put together all of the elements required to deliver certification (and training)
and claim that they follow the standards. That same organization can also provide the documentation to
'demonstrate' how they follow those standards (as we have done). As mentioned, I believe that if the
organization does not follow the procedures, and ensure that the people being certified are worthy, then I
believe that they will be found out quickly.
However, having said all that, there are organizations around the world (ANSI, JASANZ, UKAS,
AMP Member etc.) who
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is
the process we are going through.
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16. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

CS
Charles Scott
Posted 06-03-2008 19:18 Reply Reply Privately

Question for Jason,

First let me compliment you on your updated way of thinking and looking at our industry and training in
the 21st century.

I am Cat.2 certified through the VI and have sat for the Cat.3 test. I had a very bad experience with Dr.
Eisleman and will not sit for any other exams as long as he is running that show. I have been doing Cat.3
and at times Cat. 4 work as a consultant for many many years now. My customers know my capabilities
and keep calling back time and again.

Can I sit for the Mobius level 3 test or must a person test out all over again from level 1 using your
training???

I like Sam's take on grading your own certification level....the customer knows! Call it what you will. I
know that Dave works for an organization that require certification from an accrediting body. Choosing
that body is key. Do you really need to know from memory how to work out in long hand every conversion
and calculation?? Like Jason, I say no....Dr. Eisleman says yes.

Pick your poison, but I know that there is not a creditable Engineer in our business today that still uses a
slide rule or an ossiliscope. There just is no need for that these days. Yes, as Jason says....we need to
know where our data comes from and the principles to insure our competency. Our customer and your
employer demand that competency because they are making big money decisions on your
recommendations. They must be accurate.

Best of luck to you Dave and thanks for contributing to this line of thought.

17. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

WF
William Foiles
Posted 06-04-2008 03:59 Reply Reply Privately
 “
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quote: Discussion Posts

Pick your poison, but I know that there is not a creditable Engineer in our business today Directory

”
that still uses a slide rule or an ossiliscope. There just is no need for that these days.
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I think that I am credible. Unfortunately, I don't do much data collecting these days. Every tool has
improved.

If it clear to you and your customers that your are highly qualified, why sit for an exam? Above Category
2, you may have to sit for an exam anywhere.

Did you actually have communication with a Dr. Eisleman?

It was stated that there are organizations that can audit a certification body. These don't exist in every
country. Has anyone ever been audited? In the U.S.?

18. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

RS
Ron Stiemsma
Posted 06-04-2008 07:37 Reply Reply Privately

For me any training you get to improve your knowledge is a benefit.

The fact the certification is trying to standardize some of the requirements I see as a good thing. I started
this before there was any certification. Every vendor had a training class then. Some were good and some
not.

We have to remember that training is just a tool and not the end all. We all know that vibration analysis is
not an exact science. If it were we would have those blackbox analysis machines that spit out the results
for us. Vendors have been working on them for over 20 years and I still do not have one on my desk. In
the end it comes down to the training and experience you have to help you make that final call.
Remember in our world being wrong is not acceptable, even once. We make calls on equipment that can
be the life blood of a company. Being wrong will give you quick directions to the exit.

I always felt that an independent training group was best. No vendor spin. That being said, who could
teach proximity probs and orbits better than BN?

I am Cat. IV certified with VI. While I do not use a lot of what I learned in Cat. 4 very often. It has been
very helpful on occasion. Did it get me a big raise? - No. But it does give you a little more clout when you
are dealing with the big OEMs like GE and Siemens.

Mr. Reliability, did you just take the test or did you go through the course first? I would recommend, for
any certification test, that you take the course that is offered for that test first. Every testing body seems
to have things they focus on. The course lets you get an idea of how that testingAMP
body thinks.Zone:
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In the end you are right. It does come down to the person or company that is doing the hiring as to what
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certification is desired. But for me a Vibration Cert from VI, or TA will get my attention and will get you in
the door a little faster. That is because I have a lot of respect for those that put these programs together.
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But, then I know that there are others on this forum that are not certified, that I have great respect for just
from there comments and analysis of the data presented. I can learn something new here almost My Profile
everyday.

19. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

JT
Jason Tranter
Posted 06-04-2008 11:04 Reply Reply Privately

To answer Mr. Reliability's question, the ISO standard says that you need a certain amount of training and
experience to be eligible at each level - it does not say whose training you should take. If you have that
experience and training (with TA, VI, etc.), then you can attend our course OR take our exam.

We developed a Web-based system for people to document their experience (work and education) so
that they can both 'prove/document' their qualifications to take the exam, and to prove their continued
involvement for re-certification. We do not require on-going membership fees; we simply follow the
standards regarding training, certification, and re-certification.

It is definitely true that customers know the value of a good consultant - certified or not; experience and
past success should be enough. I think it is a shame that some people (probably many people) are being
squeezed out of work because they are not certified. They should be judged on their work. However for
business accountability/legal/insurance reasons, certification is being required more and more.

I can perfectly understand why large organizations might want staff to be certified, and I understand why
companies would require new employees or consultants to be certified - selection should be based on
their personality and resume as well.

I also think it is a shame that some people are not able to be certified, either because they are told they
must start the training/certification process from the start, or because the focus on theory and
calculations (by some training/certification bodies) makes it very difficult to survive the course or pass
the exam.

In my personal opinion, certification should signify that a person is able to do their job competently - not
an ability to recite irrelevant facts or perform unnecessary calculations. Vibration analysts must be
practical.

Having said that, I strongly believe that vibration analysts also need to understand what they are doing
and why they are doing it; not just do it because that's what they have always done or that's what the wall
chart says to do. As anyone can tell you who has been on one of our courses or taken one of our exams,
we focus heavily on "practical understanding" - both words are very important.

For what it is worth, I focus on "practical" issues because analysts have to be practical in order to grasp
the challenge and find a solution. Practical people (who may not be mathematically inclined) should not
be disadvantaged in the certification process. AMP Member Zone:
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For what it is worth, I focus on "understanding" because I could see that a substantial proportion of
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people involved with vibration analysis only used a small percentage of the capabilities of their analyzer
and software. While some of the operating manuals make it difficult to use those features, the real reason Directory
is that people have not had the type of training required to understand why that features exists. If you
don't understand how it works, or why it is there, or when you would use it, it is perfectly logical that you
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would not use it. As a result, it is possible that diagnoses/recommendations are being made without all of
the facts; faults may be diagnosed at a later stage, leaving less time for planning/action; the root cause of
fault conditions may never be understood, so the fault develops again and again;
unbalance/misalignment/resonance and other faults don't get adequate attention, with the result being
unnecessary bearing failures; and the list goes on.

I hope I have answered your question; sorry about the long posts...

Regards,

Jason Tranter
www.mobiusinstitute.com

20. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

WF
William Foiles
Posted 06-05-2008 04:49 Reply Reply Privately

I agree is is outrageous to be asked to convert from Hertz to CPS – I once gave a course where a student
thought that Hertz was metric and used by the Europeans, while CPS was good old American. What to
do, what to do?

How could anyone send you spectral data in rms when you want 0-p? One might even look at data
collected at a plant sight prior to taking your own data. Ridiculous requirement to compare these without
a reference book!

Someone on the job site relates a beat to you, and she has timed it (notice PC use of she). 15 beats occur
in 30 seconds. Why should you have to relate this to frequency? I want the Union Rep here.

You are balancing a fan, and you place 25 grams at 250 mm (notice the diversity, I spoke metric - who
says I need diversity training?). You enter the 25 grams in the magic calculator balance program. The
location (assuming I get the angle correct – you know not being mathematically inclined and all) to which
the weight should be added has a radius of 375 mm. No need for arithmetic here, just add and run the
machine.

The truth is that being mathematically challenged can put you at a disadvantage. Give the kid at the fast
food line $5.03 for a $3.78 meal and see what happens, sometimes even if the kid uses the cash
register/computer to cipher the amount of change due. Personally, I don't usually get short changed, but I
bet the fast food place does as well as other customers.

At least in the past, one could take (and some have taken) the VI exams without taking any courses. I
think this is in keeping with ISO documents. AMP Member Zone:
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Some of the Cat IV material is difficult for students. I think this is because the concepts are new to many
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of the students. The required math doesn't progress much beyond arithmetic and simple algebra with
some trigonometric functions – yes it does help to know what a cosine is or looks like – it also helps toDirectory
know where the functions are on your calculator. Personally, I don't or rarely use a calculator; I prefer the
computer with some calculation engines (Excel or some other spreadsheet would do in a pinch.). My Profile

Not everyone will take or needs to take the Cat IV exam. Many could skip the Cat I exam and move on to
the Cat II exam.

One does pay a penalty for lack of arithmetic skills. That is part of life.

21. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

LP
Louis Pagliaro
Posted 06-05-2008 11:05 Reply Reply Privately

Dave Dane,

Most training vendors have 4 vibration courses/ seminars: Entry/Intro, Level I, Level II, Level III. Most do
not offer a certification exam for Entry/Intro. ISO 18436 has 4 Category Levels: Category I, Category II,
Category III, and Category IV. ASNT (PdM) has Level I, Level II, Level III. The Entry/Intro seminars from
most training vendors would satisfy the Body of Knowledge (BoK)topics from ASNT (PdM) Level I and ISO
18436 Cat. I. Most Level I seminars from training vendors would satisfy the BoK for ISO 18436 Cat. II, but
not ASNT Level II. ASNT Recommended Practice SNT-TC-1A requires a minimum of 48 hours training for
Level II. Most Level I + Level II seminars from training vendors would satisfy ASNT (PdM) Level II. That is
why you see A and B seminars. The BoK for Level II can't be covered in one seminar if it is only 24 hours
(3 days long). However, if a vendor aligns its BoK to ISO 18436, a Level II longer than 24 hours (32 or
more)of formal training could satisfy ISO 18436 Cat. III. Everybody is in the same boat with Level III
(ASNT) or Category IV (ISO 18436). Both require more than a 24-hour course. ASNT doesn't tell you how
much formal training it would take to adequately cover the BoK topics, but a reasonable estimate would
be 72 hours total for Level III (usually 2 or 3 seminars). I do not know if this makes you feel any better, but
I hope it helps.

Lou

22. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

CS
Charles Scott
Posted 06-05-2008 11:22 Reply Reply Privately
 “
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quote: Discussion Posts

Mr. Reliability, did you just take the test or did you go through the course first? I would Directory
recommend, for any certification test, that you take the course that is offered for that test
first. Every testing body seems to have things they focus on. The course lets you get an My Profile

”
idea of how that testing body thinks.

Yes...I did take the 3 or 4 days training, then the test at the end of the course...I have all the material and
study guides. I actually took the exam and in all honesty thought I breezed it. There were only three
questions that I wondered about. Then I get this call from Dr. Eisleman personally asking me about how I
took the test, how many people were in the room...did I observe any talking or cheating going on...was
the proctor present. Then I find out there were some perfect scores and that they were all being thrown
out and I would have to retest. I know I passed but that really ticked me off bad...so forget those guys.

“
quote:
In my personal opinion, certification should signify that a person is able to do their job
competently - not an ability to recite irrelevant facts or perform unnecessary calculations.

”
Vibration analysts must be practical.

That is why I have so much respect for Jason Tranter! Practical Understanding...that is what everyone in
our industry needs....and a little good old common horse sense sprinkled in for good measure.

23. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

WA
Wayne Armes
Posted 06-05-2008 13:26 Reply Reply Privately

I totally disagree with Bill if he has been on any VA training course and I agree with Jason. Training as
specified covers all fields required to achieve the levels of Competancy, however the ISO requirement is
based on experience - X amount of months required!

A book with necessary calculations is issued with the exams, whoever all questions relate to common VA
practices. As a trainer the scope of field we have to cover far exceeds the examination scope, and we are
not allowed even to see the papers presented to you, so all fields must be considered - the homework is
tough, you do this, you will pass easily.
Bill, I first passed VA1 just 71% (along time ago) our repair co-ordinator (Andrea) AMP
score 99% with
Member Zone:no
experience! I can name at least 4 ladies who are more than capable at high level diagnostics. Communities

Discussion Posts
American specs suck! See RMS - Peak! Why does US reference 'cm' as European Standards m or mm - in
their software? Directory

Vibration is practical application of knowledge not a mathimatical theory test! My Profile

Regards

24. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

JT
Jason Tranter
Posted 06-05-2008 15:32 Reply Reply Privately

Bill, your point is well taken, but you may have misunderstood a couple of things that I said (or at least
what I intended to say).

First, there are definitely some things that a person should learn: Hz/CPM conversion, unit conversion,
forcing frequency calculation, balance calculation, resolution/bandwidth calculation, and a few more. But
there are courses that go much further and spend MUCH more time with calculations (and derivations ) -
at the cost of other useful topics.

Second, there is no suggestion that someone should be able to take an exam without training. The
standard and recommended practice is very clear on that. The duration of the training, and the content
covered is very clear. My point is simply that it is not right, in my opinion, to require someone to take
Mobius training before they take the Mobius exam. If the Mobius exam follows the standards, and the
"exam candidate" has the required experience and training, then they should be allowed to attempt the
exam. The decision to take our training should be based on their desire to learn, or their need to comply
with the standard if they have not had enough training.

And I would like to take up a point made by Lou. He is correct; the standards are very clear on the amount
of training required; that's why our courses are four or five days, and we supplement the training with on-
line lessons and references (pre- and post-course). In addition to meeting the standard, I also believe that
it is difficult to adequately cover the topics in three days, and I feel that it is more convenient for people to
do it in one trip away from the plant instead of two.

Regards,

Jason Tranter
www.mobiusinstitute.com

25. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

 AMP Member Zone:
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WF
Discussion Posts
William Foiles
Posted 06-05-2008 16:31 Reply Reply Privately
Directory

“
My Profile

quote:
simply that it is not right, in my opinion, to require someone to take Mobius training before

”
they take the Mobius exam.

Indeed, substitute Mobius ( a good name - don't know how or why you came up with it - a Mobius strip
[manifold] has but one side and is non-orientable) for any other name; this is the way it should be.
However, do you think a student can pass your exam if they didn't pass another's exam without further
training.

If so, that would seem to raise some issues. Is one exam more difficult than another, and why.

26. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

LP
Louis Pagliaro
Posted 07-18-2008 12:15 Reply Reply Privately

Dave Dane,

Most training vendors have 4 vibration courses/ seminars: Entry/Intro, Level I, Level II, Level III. Most do
not offer a certification exam for Entry/Intro. ISO 18436 has 4 Category Levels: Category I, Category II,
Category III, and Category IV. ASNT (PdM) has Level I, Level II, Level III. The Entry/Intro seminars from
most training vendors would satisfy the Body of Knowledge (BoK)topics from ASNT (PdM) Level I and ISO
18436 Cat. I. Most Level I seminars from training vendors would satisfy the BoK for ISO 18436 Cat. II, but
not ASNT Level II. ASNT Recommended Practice SNT-TC-1A requires a minimum of 48 hours training for
Level II. Most Level I + Level II seminars from training vendors would satisfy ASNT (PdM) Level II. That is
why you see A and B seminars. The BoK for Level II can't be covered in one seminar if it is only 24 hours
(3 days long). However, if a vendor aligns its BoK to ISO 18436, a Level II longer than 24 hours (32 or
more)of formal training could satisfy ISO 18436 Cat. III. Everybody is in the same boat with Level III
(ASNT) or Category IV (ISO 18436). Both require more than a 24-hour course. ASNT doesn't tell you how
much formal training it would take to adequately cover the BoK topics, but a reasonable estimate would
be 72 hours total for Level III (usually 2 or 3 seminars).

So a Level II in Vibration Analysis with ISO 18436 is a person with 18 months experience (not checked), 38
formal training hours, passed a 3-hour exam with 75% or higher. So a Level II in Vibration Analysis with
ASNT SNT-TC-1A is a person with 24 months experience (checked), 72 formal training hours for a high
school grad and 48 formal training hours for a 2-year college grad, passed 1 exam or 2 exams (not
definite time length specified) with 80% or higher. Trouble is... ISO and ASNT does AMPnot certify
Member ANYONE in
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Level II. It is left up to the training organization (or employer) in the case of ASNT and the certifying Communities
organization (body) in the case of ISO 18436.
Discussion Posts
I do not know if this makes you feel any better, but I hope it helps. Directory

Louis G. Pagliaro My Profile

27. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

DD
david dane
Posted 07-18-2008 12:39 Reply Reply Privately

Lou,

I am feeling fine. I have been doing PDM full time for three years. Did Tech associates intro the first year.
Level 1 certified my second year and took the Mobius Cat. 2 course and certified this year. So with all the
feedback I have gotten from this thread I am feeling warm and fuzzy

Best Regards, Dave Dane

28. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

SC
Steve Ciesla
Posted 07-18-2008 16:24 Reply Reply Privately
 “
AMP Member Zone:
Communities

quote: Discussion Posts

Originally posted by ddane: Directory
Lou,
My Profile
I am feeling fine. I have been doing PDM full time for three years. Did Tech associates
intro the first year. Level 1 certified my second year and took the Mobius Cat. 2 course
and certified this year. So with all the feedback I have gotten from this thread I am feeling
warm and fuzzy

”
Best Regards, Dave Dane

What do you mean by certified? That is a basic question that a lot of people seem to have trouble with. In
the ASNT world, your employer certifies you based upon a written standard. That standard should include
appropriate training (i.e. Level I/II/III from Vibe Institute, Tech. Associates, Mobius, etc.), relevant
experience, and examination. Taking a course and passing an exam does not equal certification.

29. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

DD
david dane
Posted 07-19-2008 08:17 Reply Reply Privately

Steve,

Lets just say I am certifiable.

Dave Dane

30. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

SC
Steve Ciesla
Posted 07-19-2008 12:13 Reply Reply Privately
 “
AMP Member Zone:
Communities

quote: Discussion Posts

Originally posted by ddane: Directory
Steve,
My Profile
Lets just say I am certifiable.

”
Dave Dane

You and me both!

31. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

LP
Louis Pagliaro
Posted 07-21-2008 05:55 Reply Reply Privately

Steve and Dave,

ASNT maintains that certification is written documentation to acknowledge that a candidate is qualified.
Qualification is based on having the minimum amount of experience, formal education and training, and
passed an exam. That means records have to be kept and upgraded on these three items per candidate.
That means checking the backround or submitted documentation for truthfulness and equivalency.

Big problem. Who is going to do this? Which vendor selling vibration training and certification is doing this
at present to the fullest extent. None that I know of. Perhaps Mobius is the closest to doing most. ISO
does not have this requirement. It is hinted at and recommended but there is not mechanism in place to
restrict.

Here what the market has. Vendors (not necessarily VA equipment and software sellers)who sell training
and certifiation examinations and certification. If we had to sort through everyone, we would lose
tremendous revenue.

So here is what it meams to be certified. Whether you take a course or not, whether you have any
handson experience or not, if you can pass the same certification exam as the candidate who has
handson experience, has taken a refresher course or formal seminar, then it shows that you comprehend
the principles and can deductive reason to analyze. Most exams that I have seen are not pushovers. If
you pass them, it shows that you comprehend and can use the knowledge that you have thus far to make
the right decisions. The piece of paper called a "certificate" certifies that.

Here is what most employers will look at. Did the exam have 60 or more questions (the more the better
(100 is very common)). Was the exam timed and controlled? Was there as monitor or prefect present with
the candidates to oversee? Did you have to pay extra for the exam or was it moreAMP
likeMember
reviewZone:
questions at
the end of the course? Was the passing grade 70% or higher (70, 75, 80 are common pass/fail levels)?Communities

Discussion Posts
In the final say, the employer will see within the first week what your potential is so don't fool yourself.
Directory
This certification issue is more of insecurity in the head than actual problems in the workplace. Some
people have made a mountain out of a molehill and therefore there is the unknown fear factor. My Profile

Louis G. Pagliaro

32. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

AL
Alan Lomax
Posted 07-21-2008 08:25 Reply Reply Privately

I passed ISO Level 2 in the UK last year. In order for me to achieve this I had to submit evidence of
experience in engineering and VA, get two separate referees to vouch for my experience, submit
certificates of academic achievement, submit certificates of previous vib analysis courses, attend a six
day course and pass a three hour 100 question paper with invigilator present. I also had to pass a 10
question paper at the end of each training day with a pass mark of 75% about the days topics. Without
this I wouldn't have been allowed to sit the main exam.

The exam was set by the British Institute of Non Destructive Testing who maintain all records and do the
background checks, and was payed for separately to the training company.

I felt that was pretty thorough. Does the ASNT take it further still?

33. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

LP
Louis Pagliaro
Posted 07-22-2008 21:13 Reply Reply Privately

Big Al,

Sometimes we forget that ISO is an International Standard. I tend to think of only what concerns analysts
in the USA only. No... ASNT does not take it further than the British Institute does.... It looks like Great
Britain is trying to follow ISO 18436 to the letter. Is your British Institute of NonDestructive Testing an arm
of the British government? Does it offer training seminars also or is that done separately? In Canada, ISO
is represented by the Canadian Machinery Vibration Association (CMVA). CMVA is the only organization
given a charter to examine and certify Vibration Analysts. CMVA does not offer or do any training itself -
just certificates, but it will sell the examinations to those who want to give the examination only. CMVA
used to buy (maybe it still does) their examinations from the Vibration Institute until they were
to produce their own. But CMVA has a different philosophy than the Vibration Institute (such a catchy
name)in the USA and will modify the Body of Knowledge as it sees fit for each Category, emphasize
AMP Member Zone:
different topics as needed, reword questions differently. It too establishes qualifications first before Communities
examination is permitted and especially before Certification is granted. But who in the USA is setup to
Discussion Posts
verify backgrounds and establish qualification to the fine degree that the British Institute, CMVA in
Canada, and ASNT does it (for Level III certification) in the USA? Directory

Kudos to you on your Level II (Category III I assume) and for the British Institute for following ISO to the
My Profile
letter.

Lou

34. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

WF
William Foiles
Posted 07-23-2008 05:07 Reply Reply Privately

I don't understand what is meant by 'In Canada, ISO is represented by the' CMVA. Also, who gave CMVA
its charter to examine and certify vibration analysts?

35. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

LP
Louis Pagliaro
Posted 07-23-2008 09:37 Reply Reply Privately

Hello Bill,

I am glad that you asked for clarification.CMVA grew out of former group, Machinery Dynamics
SubCommittee(MDSC)of the National Research Council of Canada. Interested persons from Eastern
Canada pushed for government certification while interested parties from Western Canada supported
free enterprise with minimal government involvement. The result was that CMVA was formed as a non-
profit organization under the provisions of the Canadian Corporations Act in 1991. CMVA/ACVM (French)
is the only association in Canada that certifies Vibration specialists. This not because others are not
allowed to but because no one else has come forward to produce such an organization to fruition.
"Charter" was not the best word choice on my part and I apologize for that. However, the truth is, that at
present. CMVA is the only one in Canada providing certification as an independent organization.Recently
they had a change in by-laws and these were approved by the [Canadian] Minister of Consumer and
Corporate Affairs on November 14, 2007. That is because CMVA collects money even though it is a non-
profit organization.

ISO has not appointed CMVA as my previous email seems to imply, but CMVA subscribes to and
promotes ISO 18436. ISO has not appointed the Vibration Institute in the USA but the V.I. promotes ISO
18436. ISO is just a standards organization. It does not favor or recommend or promote any vendor or
particular group over others. CMVA is still closely affiliated with the V.I. but it will deviate and become
more indewpendent as time goes on and there is a need to go off in a different direction in certain
AMP Member Zone: areas.
Communities
More information plus this can be viewed first hand at www.cmva.com under headings such as, but not
Discussion Posts
limited to: "About CMVA", "History", "Letters Patent", "Brochure".
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Lou
My Profile

36. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

WF
William Foiles
Posted 07-23-2008 11:10 Reply Reply Privately

To quote from a company that frequents discussions like this.

“
quote:
Mobius Institute vibration training courses and optional certification exams (ISO Category

”
I, II & III and ASNT Level I and II) are available around the United States and Canada.

I found this on their web site http://www.ilearninteractive.com/mi/TrainingUSA.html . Are you saying that
this is not true?

37. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

JT
Jason Tranter
Posted 07-23-2008 18:44 Reply Reply Privately

Sorry for my recent silence - I was away in Southern Africa for a month.

“
quote:
Indeed, substitute Mobius ( a good name - don't know how or why you came up with it - a

”
Mobius strip [manifold] has but one side and is non-orientable)
 AMP Member Zone:
Communities
Regarding the name Mobius, we wanted a unique name, a name that was related to 'rotation', but we
Discussion Posts
wanted to add a 'twist' - so we thought of the Mobius strip. See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B6bius_strip It is not always easy to come up with company names...
Directory

“
My Profile

quote:

”
Are you saying that this is not true?

As Lou Pang says, CMVA has established itself to, among other things, provide exams that follow the ISO
standard - in Canada. The US Vibration Institute provides courses and exams that follow the ISO
standards - in the United States. (VI also offers courses and exams in other countries.) CMVA and VI have
not been appointed by the ISO. The ISO does not have territories. Therefore Mobius can provide training
and certification in any country - it is the choice of the analyst.

Mobius follows all of the procedures set out in 18436-2, and most of the procedures set out in 18436-1
(we don't yet have photo-ID cards). Our training complies with the BoK. Our certification procedures are
very strict. We require information about previous education and experience - we go to GREAT lengths to
gather and validate this information. We have developed a sophisticated computer system to gather this
information, and to facilitate re-certification. (And very soon you will see that we also provide facilities for
free on-going education.)

“
quote:
However, do you think a student can pass your exam if they didn't pass another's exam

”
without further training.

This is also an important question. A person might fail one exam and pass another for a variety of reasons
- assuming they did not take further training/study between exams:

1. Exams are based on a database of questions. You may be fortunate to get a few questions that you
understand better in the second exam.
2. It also must be said that different people develop the questions at Mobius, VI, CMVA, etc. Although we
are all working to the same BoK, it is possible that one may focus more heavily on theoretical topics, or
require more calculations, or be more practical, etc. The ISO provides guidelines, but they do not provide
the actual questions.
3. From first-hand experience, I can tell you that nerves play a part in the examination procedure. It is a
sad fact that I have seen some people, who deserve to be certified, fail the exam because they get so
stressed and nervous. The second time 'round they may be more relaxed and thus think more clearly.

It should be said that, after taking the first exam you may recognize where your weaknesses lie and study
to strengthen those areas of knowledge, or even take another course. (We do provide a report showing
where a person's weaknesses lie so that they can perform study with iLearnVibration - for free.)
AMP Member Zone:
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Jason Tranter
Discussion Posts
Mobius
www.mobiusinstitute.com Directory

My Profile

38. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

SP
Sid Patel
Posted 09-15-2013 19:24 Reply Reply Privately

Hi All
I have plan to attend CAT 2 training in near future and scanning through couple of courses. Among them i
have finally getting confused between
1. Mobius CAT-2(4day and exam on 5th day) and SKF CAT 2 (partner with TA,which they have recently
started, 31/2 day and exam 1/2 day))
Can any one help me out to whom to go with?
it will be real help if you give opinion describe the factors such as training method,reference material and
as such.

Thanks

39. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

VR
Vibe Rater
Posted 09-15-2013 21:22 Reply Reply Privately

Hi rookie,

SKF subbie everything out. Or at least they used to when I worked for them back in 2007 (Australia). (so a
long time ago) They used to work with Mobius, now I don't know.

If currently with TA then you might want to move from 3 decades ago to current. Go with Mobius. Content
should be dictated by ISO so hardly any point (and I don't have knowledge) to go into detail. rgds

40. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

SP
 Sid Patel AMP Member Zone:
Posted 09-15-2013 21:38 Reply
Communities
Reply Privately

Thanks for your words Vibe-Rater Discussion Posts

Directory
"I worked for them back in 2007 (Australia)"
I used to work for SKF as well! and changed to place where i have more freedom to do my job. My Profile
i did my level-1 with mobius and it was good.
but getting some discount from SKF and TA got me confused.

41. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

AL
Alan Lomax
Posted 09-18-2013 05:44 Reply Reply Privately

I can't believe how far through this thread I'd got before I noticed the original posting date.

Anyway, I recently attended a Cat III Mobius course here in the UK, where RMS Training is the training
provider. I found that the pre-course online material was invaluable and I chalked up something like 80
hours self study in advance of the course. I can only speak for my own learning style, but this suited me
perfectly and really drove home some of the concepts. I passed with 93% so something must have stuck.

I can't speak for TA as I have no experience, but would highly recommend Mobius.

42. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

SP
Sid Patel
Posted 09-18-2013 14:53 Reply Reply Privately

“
quote:
Originally posted by Big Al:
I can't believe how far through this thread I'd got before I noticed the original posting
date.

”
I can't speak for TA as I have no experience, but would highly recommend Mobius.
Thanks Al AMP Member Zone:
the topic was the same so i thought to keep in this post rather creating new, so won,t duplicate the Communities
subject.
Discussion Posts

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My Profile
43. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

LP
Louis Pagliaro
Posted 09-18-2013 15:10 Reply Reply Privately

Check out the course descriptions from both. Carefully compare that to what is recommended in ISO
18436. Check each schedule. Count the cost of the seminar, exam, and travel and compare. You can't go
wrong with either one. I would take the least expensive and most convenient.

44. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

JT
Jason Tranter
Posted 09-19-2013 01:15 Reply Reply Privately

“
quote:

”
I would take the least expensive and most convenient.

I would disagree - but I am seriously biased. I know how much blood, sweat and tears (and money) we
put into the on-line pre-course learning zone, and the slides and manual, and the animations, and the
software simulations, and the student polling devices that we use during the courses.

But ignore what I just said because I am terribly biased!

45. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

WF
William Foiles
Posted 09-19-2013 06:42 ReplyZone:
AMP Member Reply Privately
Communities

“
Discussion Posts

quote: Directory
If currently with TA then you might want to move from 3 decades ago to current. Go withMy Profile

”
Mobius. Content should be dictated by ISO

What was true 30 years ago is still true. Many advances have occurred since, many for convenience,
speed, and volume. Weight of the equipment has gone done significantly.

People still read books and other written material, either in hard copy form or some digital format. This is
not a bad start.

30 years ago when you took a course, most often the people giving it had some real battle experience.
Today, there are more trainers. Now, some trainers have better presentation and teaching skills than some
of the experts of old. However, nothing beat talking with a real expert and not just someone who can
present a topic.

The ISO training usually calls for 'certified' instructors. However, this does not mean that the same
experience of the old days is present.

Some companies used training to honestly produce better technically informed customers (IRD and
Bently come to mind, not to slight others.). Making a profit from the training department was not a priority
and may not have been possible.

Today and partially with the help of ISO requirements, training is a business in itself, more so than in the
past.

ISO's body of knowledge doesn't really cover content. It covers areas of knowledge. I would bet that
among the various training offered there are discrepancies in what is considered 'correct' for various
topics.

If you learn first principles, you can't go wrong. The various training courses can help relate this to the
specifics of this field. First principles should not differ. Interpreting the application in terms of the physics
may vary because not all is known or controlled in field measurements as opposed to theory or the
laboratory.

46. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

LP
Louis Pagliaro
Posted 09-19-2013 07:21 Reply Reply Privately
TACPC has built a good reputation. It has been in existence longer than Mobius. AMP
Mobius is also
Member building a
Zone:
fine reputation. That is why I conclude that you can't go wrong if you choose one or the other. Communities

Discussion Posts
If that is not good enough, check our our courses at www.fullspec.net
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Now I'm biased.
My Profile

47. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

WF
William Foiles
Posted 09-19-2013 08:12 Reply Reply Privately

Is the TA certification accredited? I believe that both the Vibration Institute and Mobius are accredited to
certify by their respective national member of ISO (ANSI for U.S.).

To some that would make a difference.

48. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

RE
Ron Evans
Posted 09-19-2013 09:24 Reply Reply Privately

I won't endorse any one over the other. I was sent through TA by a supervisor I had for a while that went
throguh them, so everyone here went through them. What I do know is that if you go to the TA website,
they list TA Certified analysts, ASNT Analysts and ISO Analysts and their website says they offer ISO
compliant training and certification.
I guess I don't know if compliant means the same as certified.

49. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

WF
William Foiles
Posted 09-19-2013 09:59 Reply Reply Privately
 “
AMP Member Zone:
Communities

quote: Discussion Posts

Originally posted by Racer98: Directory
I won't endorse any one over the other. I was sent through TA by a supervisor I had for a
while that went throguh them, so everyone here went through them. What I do know is My Profile
that if you go to the TA website, they list TA Certified analysts, ASNT Analysts and ISO
Analysts and their website says they offer ISO compliant training and certification.

”
I guess I don't know if compliant means the same as certified.

ISO compliant training should mean that they teach the areas described in the body of knowledge in the
standard. However, the specifics are missing as to what is in each area. Certified means that they (TA or
whoever) certify you.

Are they accredited to certify? I don't see this.

50. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

PH
Philip Hine
Posted 09-19-2013 10:07 Reply Reply Privately

I have taken just about all the training offered by TA. I can say that Jim Berry limits the number of classes
each instructor can teach,the rest o the time they are out collecting and analyzing data. I agree with Bill
that it is nice to be able to work with intsructors that have some real world experience. That being said
being able to get training online as offered by some is much more user friendly thatn being away from
hearth and home for a class.

Phil

51. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

JT
Jason Tranter
Posted 09-20-2013 01:24 Reply Reply Privately

Post by biased person - be fore-warned:

 “
quote:
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Communities

”
...it is nice to be able to work with instructors that have some real world experience. Discussion Posts

Directory

My Profile

We insist on it for our instructors.

“
quote:

”
That being said being able to get training online as offered by some...

Because there are people who believe we only do on-line training, I would like to say that we have
actually trained over 12,000 people in a classroom environment (public or on-site) . However everyone
who registers for the classroom course can go on-line before the course (and after the course for six
months) and take the entire course in the distance learning format (as taught by me - but don't let that put
you off).

“
quote:

”
Are they accredited to certify?

No - only Mobius Institute and Vibration Institute (and BINDT) are accredited. You can look at the course
duration and topic list of our courses and compare it to the standard.

“
quote:

”
TACPC has built a good reputation.

For the record - I absolutely agree.

 “
quote:
AMP Member Zone:
Communities

”
It has been in existence longer than Mobius. Discussion Posts

Directory

My Profile

Yep - we are 15 years old next year. Time flies. Next year marks 30 years involvement in this industry for
me personally - no wonder I am feeling old.

“
quote:

”
Mobius is also building a fine reputation.

Thanks Lou!

52. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

GS
Gary Stacey
Posted 09-20-2013 02:54 Reply Reply Privately

If you want convenience I did the cat III with mobius via there online facility. The exam was invigilated by
our training dept here at work.

Gary

53. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

SP
Sid Patel
Posted 09-22-2013 17:00 Reply Reply Privately

Hi All
Thanks for valuable suggestions and opinions.
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0 Recommend
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William Foiles My Profile
Posted 09-23-2013 04:28 Reply Reply Privately

“
quote:
No - only Mobius Institute and Vibration Institute (and BINDT) are accredited. You can

”
look at the course duration and topic list of our courses and compare it to the standard.

I am a little surprised that no one in the UK has been accredited.

55. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

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Jason Tranter
Posted 09-24-2013 01:44 Reply Reply Privately

“
quote:

”
I am a little surprised that no one in the UK has been accredited

Sorry - BINDT stands for British Institute of Non-Destructive Testing.

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William Foiles
Posted 09-24-2013 09:05 Reply Reply Privately
http://www.bindt.org/downloads/PSL05CM.pdf AMP Member Zone:
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BINDT appears to be qualifying a number of training organizations. This looks akin to accreditation. They
Discussion Posts
list a number of Approved Training Organisations [sic] (ATOs).
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Jason Tranter
Posted 09-24-2013 15:03 Reply Reply Privately

Yes, BINDT are accredited through the United Kingdom Accreditation Service (UKAS) to offer
certification. They then have an approval process for third party organizations to offer training so that
their students are eligible for BINDT certification. The third party organization must have an approved
course, facility and instructor - but there are a lot of details and caveats that I won't go into now. For
example, outside the USA/Australia/NZ, SKF uses BINDT for certification. There are a few other smaller
organizations as well (to the best of my knowledge).

(The Mobius Institute Board of Certification (MIBoC) also has an approval process which is not dissimilar
to BINDT's.)

Our approved UK training partner is approved by us and BINDT for training and certification. Their
students can take either exam and apply for certification by either organization. Like MIBoC, BINDT also
checks experience and previous training for certification. I don't think they go to Cat III in VA (but that
may have changed) and I know they don't do Cat IV.

But BINDT do follow the standard closely and is a very respectable organization.

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William Foiles
Posted 02-12-2014 07:43 Reply Reply Privately

What about section7.2 Mature candidate entry (part 1 of the ISO series).
 “
quote:
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Mature candidate entry may be allowed at the discretion of the assessment body. Discussion Posts
If the assessment body permits mature candidate entry, candidates may apply for direct
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entry to categories higher than category I and not including the highest category in a
technology, without the need to have previously held classifications at lower categories, My Profile
providing they can produce evidence of training and/or experience that satisfies the
requirements of the assessment body. Mature candidates may not need to have attended

”
an assessment body validated course of training.

Will Mobius give out these certifications? Can someone just pay you for this as an alternative?

After all, how will you develop your level 4 material or any level for a new organization? Of course you
could rely upon other organizations trained people.

This route seems applicable to me. What does it cost?

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Jason Tranter
Posted 02-12-2014 20:50 Reply Reply Privately

Hi Bill,

There are a couple of issues here. The first is related to the mature-age clause for certification. The
standards have changed a few times in relation to this topic over the past few years, but to a large extent
it is up to the certification body.

Some time ago we chose to accept mature-age candidates. The standard does say the following (in
addition to your snippet):

“
quote:
to be eligible to apply for assessment as a mature candidate entry, the candidate shall be
required to provide evidence of training and experience relevant to the requirements of
the relevant technical parts of ISO 18436. The minimum duration of recommended

”
training is shown in each technical part of ISO 18436.
Therefore, we allow people to skip Category II and apply directly to Category III, AMP
as long as they
Member Zone:can
provide verifiable evidence of suitable training and experience. The candidate must either take a Communities
Category III course or demonstrate that they have taken an approved course. They must also take the
Discussion Posts
Category III exam.
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For the training component, we simply require certificates (or some other "proof") that one or more
courses have been attended that cover the topics outlined in Appendix A of 18436-2. This is usually easy
My Profile
for mature-age candidates.

For the experience component, we do the same thing that we do for normal certification applicants. We
ask you to describe your experience (in writing and as an approximate number of months) and we ask
you to provide the contact details (including e-mail address) of one or more people who can verify that
you have the stated experience. We then contact that person (or people).

So, in your case, you can probably provide suitable evidence of training/education for Cat I, II and III, and
I am sure your employer would verify your experience, so that would just leave the exam.

As for the instructor issue, there is a defined "transition" period (not exceeding 5 years) that all
certification bodies can utilize to solve the catch 22 - how can an instructor be certified to a particular
level if the certification body has not previously offered that level of certification. But that is different to
the mature-age clause.

I hope that answers your question.

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William Foiles
Posted 02-13-2014 04:40 Reply Reply Privately

I read the full clause. It seems that many might qualify this way.

For those self-employed or in very small consulting companies, does it have meaning for their employer
to provide evidence of anything?

Frankly, who at my employer knows more than me about my specialty? Any verification would be of less
value than asking me what you want to know about me -- assuming I answer. For many of the potential
'mature' candidates that probably holds. I probably say this, because I am getting more and more
'mature.'

If a body is going to handle mature candidates, they must find a fair and equitable method. Some of the
best, probably the best, in the business may not have certification, but they are 'mature' consultants.

I just read what was sent around recently, and it yanks my chain.

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Jason Tranter
Posted 02-13-2014 05:05 Reply Reply Privately
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I am not sure what was sent around recently, but whether you come in as a mature-age candidate or My Profile
whether you have come up from Category II, we have to verify that you have experience in the field per
the ISO 18436-2 definition. We are not asking anyone to verify that you really know your stuff, just that
you have been doing the job.

We want to know that you have been active in the role for a minimum of 36 months (coming up from
Category II) or five years (mature age).

But, we are also going to check if you have received adequate training.

And we are going to require you to take the exam.

The challenge with this type of certification is that we cannot attest to your competence. But we can at
least say that the certified person has had a certain amount of experience, they have been trained for a
certain period of time on certain topics, and they passed the exam.

The employee or client has to then check a person's CV to figure out whether their experience matches
the desired application, and then check references to get an idea of the person is competent.

As a side note, we have had long, long discussions about ways to check competence. It is very tricky to
do...

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William Foiles
Posted 02-14-2014 05:40 Reply Reply Privately

How many people have you certified via the mature candidate route?

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Jason Tranter
Posted 02-14-2014 20:09 Reply Reply Privately

I don't have access to that information, but I believe that we have one successful mature-age candidate
per month - on average. They skip the Cat II (and Cat I) training and examination, but they meet the
training and experience requirements so they take the Cat III exam (and they probably take the
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RC
Rusty Castleman
Posted 02-16-2014 19:58 Reply Reply Privately

Good grief. Someone needs to put together a "road map" of all this stuff, perhaps a flow chart, or
something similar. Impossible to wrap your mind around even the terminology.

You would think that a "standard" would somehow make things simple, more straightforward, not
hopelessly complex and obtuse.

And Jason, where do you get this "mature-age" stuff? Some of us may find such references offensive.
Below is a requote of the section Bill quoted.

“
quote:
Mature candidate entry may be allowed at the discretion of the assessment body.
If the assessment body permits mature candidate entry, candidates may apply for direct
entry to categories higher than category I and not including the highest category in a
technology, without the need to have previously held classifications at lower categories,
providing they can produce evidence of training and/or experience that satisfies the
requirements of the assessment body. Mature candidates may not need to have attended

”
an assessment body validated course of training.

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Jason Tranter
Posted 02-16-2014 21:58 Reply Reply Privately

Here is a quick summary:

Category I: 6 months verified experience + evidence of training per standard + pass exam

Category II: 18 months verified experience + evidence of training includes Category I+II + pass exam
[Note: Cat I certification not required]
 AMP Member Zone:
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Category III: 36 months verified experience + evidence of training includes Category I+II+III + pass exam
[must be Category II certified OR meet mature-age requirements of 5 years verified experience]
Discussion Posts
Category IV: 60 months verified experience + evidence of training includes Category I+II+III+IV + passDirectory
exam [must be Category III certified]
My Profile

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Rusty Castleman
Posted 02-17-2014 07:10 Reply Reply Privately

Actually, I just read (again) the beginning of this topic, and Jason your very first post in May 2008 & Ken
Culverson's response, summarized this topic handily.

At that point, it sort of "ran off the rails" and got hopelessly complex.

Still don't know where you came up with the "mature age" thing though.

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Jason Tranter
Posted 02-17-2014 08:52 Reply Reply Privately

I am not sure I understand your question about "mature age". It is written into the standard. (Bill and I
quoted directly from the standard.)

To me it only seems fair that a person who has already been trained and who has a lot of experience
should not be forced to take "unnecessary" courses or take exams that they should be able to pass
easily. It would take a lot of their time and money just to jump through artificial hoops - even if it is my
business that would profit from those courses.

But as I have stated before, that is all on the assumption that they have taken the required training and
they have the required experience.

And remember also, the mature age candidate is not granted any certification - they must still pass the
Category III exam to become certified. Until then they are not certified.

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PS
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Peter Schimpf
Posted 02-17-2014 11:20 Reply Reply Privately
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I know nothing about any of this. But just noticed the standard says "mature" but Jason's been talkingMy Profile
about "mature age". Maybe that extra word "age" is causing some confusion. Or maybe not...just pointing
it out.

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VR
Vibe Rater
Posted 02-17-2014 11:42 Reply Reply Privately

I'm with EP. I think it was probably meant as "mature candidate" all along and the meaning. Someone who
has been in this business for a considerable time. Meaning they know their stuff. Or at least supposed to.
rgds

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Jason Tranter
Posted 02-17-2014 12:02 Reply Reply Privately

Yes - sorry for the confusion: mature age = mature candidate.

71. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

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Rusty Castleman
Posted 02-17-2014 12:32 Reply Reply Privately

To some of you being a "mature age" may simply mean 'experienced'... some of us just think you're
calling us old.
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William Foiles My Profile
Posted 02-23-2014 15:36 Reply Reply Privately

In some countries one needs to be careful calling old guys old, directly or indirectly. In other countries,
the law or labor agreements removes such mature age people.

I know many mature age people who have little experience, and a number of younger people with
excellent experience, talent, and training.

I, personally, would not rely upon my ISO compliant training or certification in the market place. I believe
that I have other qualifications to offer.

At the same time it is good to have training. My positions have allowed me to keep up with training; this is
not the case with everyone. Having seen a variety of training material over the years, I can testify that all
are not equal, and some is rubbish and a waste of time. Even worse, some courses can mislead young
practitioners.

I have not taken a Mobius course, but Jason did let me see some material when he was in Houston for a
Turbo show. The material looked very professional.

In the old days, they were not always good or better than today. Some good speakers had many tales to
tell accented with too many jokes. Some were not so good speakers but had valuable information if you
could stay awake.

Today, much training is done for profit. So, as I see it from outside, cost is removed by using good
trainers. Some of the better courses may have a 'known consultant or consultants.' These can be
excellent. The consultants may be fishing for new clients, but you can get good value at these. A number
of these consultants don't have ISO compliant certification; so do.

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Jason Tranter
Posted 02-23-2014 15:53 Reply Reply Privately

Yes, I should not have used the word "age". Age has nothing to do with it.

As you say, training is important, and not all courses are equal. We have a Technical Committee that has
to approve training. Most mature candidates have plenty of training; more than is required under the
standard.

The key is not to force people to repeat training on topics they have covered before, and to have to spend
money (and time) on exams that don't prove anything. We are trying to follow the standard, and most
important, to be fair. Of course, the real goal is to certify people who are worthy of being called "Category
X certified". AMP Member Zone:
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(Thanks for your comment on the Mobius training material.)
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74. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

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Ch Seligi
Posted 02-23-2014 22:22 Reply Reply Privately

So Bill, are you one of those consultants and mature candidate who don't have ISO-compliant
certification but have other qualification which is equivalent or better? If yes, how many trainings have
you conducted?

What are the criteria to become or select a trainer? Are these specified in the ISO standard?

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Jason Tranter
Posted 02-23-2014 22:37 Reply Reply Privately

I can answer the second part of the question. The instructor must be certified one level higher than the
level he/she is teaching.

(However, if the certification body does not offer certification one level higher then the body can approve
a person who is suitably qualified and certified at the same level. And when a certification body gets
started (and therefore they do not have any certified analysts) they can select instructors who are
deemed by the technical committee to be suitably qualified.)

76. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

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William Foiles
Posted 02-24-2014 08:46 Reply Reply Privately

A lot of questions Candy - I was present when the first ISO training standard (on vibration) was voted out
of the working group. In fact, I gave the official U.S. vote, standing in for R. Eshleman (the HOD, Head of
Delegation), who had an early flight.
What difference to you does it make whether I have certification or not? I am notAMP
considering consulting
Member Zone:
for you. In fact, I do have such certification. Communities

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I suppose that I have given dozens of training sessions, some ISO body of knowledge related in
rotordynamics (figure out where that places in the standard). Directory

I gave a number of courses with Charlie Jackson. I don't remember him talking about his certification.My I Profile
worked in a training department. I have participated (trained) in short courses. I feel that I have
contributed to the discipline by sharing information. I have acted as an invigilator for certification exams.

I have taken training for trainer type courses. I have taught the calculus sequence (including multi-
variable calculus), computer programing, probability and statistics, plus other university courses. I have
trained for your interest.

As far as the standard(s) go, they are available for purchase and in some libraries. Get them and read
them for more information.

77. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

WS
Walter Strong
Posted 02-24-2014 10:29 Reply Reply Privately

Manny many years ago I saw a car rear bumper sticker that stated "Drive Maturely"! I thought it was
funny at the time, but now as a Certified Senior Citizen I think differently.

Walt

78. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

CS
Ch Seligi
Posted 02-24-2014 12:04 Reply Reply Privately

Bill, if not me, perhaps others will engage you after knowing your credentials.

79. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

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 Ch Seligi AMP Member Zone:
Posted 02-24-2014 12:14 Reply
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Reply Privately

Is this you, Bill? Discussion Posts

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http://www.linkedin.com/in/williamcfoiles
My Profile

Bill Foiles
Rotating Equpment Specialist at BP Amoco
Houston, Texas Area Oil & Energy

80. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

CS
Ch Seligi
Posted 02-24-2014 12:17 Reply Reply Privately

Bill, have you written any books like Heinz Bloch or published papers which we can read?

OK I saw some papers listed under the LinkedIn profile.

81. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

PS
Peter Schimpf
Posted 02-24-2014 13:34 Reply Reply Privately

The late Don Bently credits Bill Foiles for coming up with the full spectrum concept (forward / backward)

http://www.bpb-co.com/corporate/founder.php

82. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

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William Foiles
Posted 02-24-2014 15:53 Reply Reply Privately

Thanks, ElPete.
I don't know what you can read Candy, but I am getting annoyed by your tone. AMP Member Zone:
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83. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

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PJ
Paul Jones
Posted 02-24-2014 22:41 Reply Reply Privately

looks like bills got a stalker

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Rusty Castleman
Posted 02-24-2014 22:49 Reply Reply Privately

Looks like candy has only been on the board about 2 months. As a newcomer, he likely doesn't know that
some here are quite accomplished in the vibration field. English is likely not his native language, and there
may be cultural differences as well. Perhaps his motives are being misunderstood. I would hope he would
be given the benefit of the doubt.

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OL
Olov Lindholm
Posted 02-25-2014 10:00 Reply Reply Privately

Well he is not a real Troll anyway so far, they may elevate to truly other dimensions and for some reason
we seem to be spared of those, knock on wood, maybe we are to serious. Bill, your input of appreciated
wisdom on the board should be enough for most newbies to read so it is only to search and start reading.
He was maybe looking for a more condensed format, so you need to write a book? Olov

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 Ch Seligi AMP Member Zone:
Posted 02-25-2014 10:24 Reply
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Reply Privately

I have great respects for experts. I read the 4 volumes by Heinz Bloch and some of his articles in Discussion Posts
Hydrocarbon Processing. Well, If my tone is not alright, my apologies. I just asked the questions arising
Directory
from your comments in this thread to get to know your expertise and to further understand the subject
discussed in this thread. I am not questioning your expertise at all. Once I know experts, I might start My Profile
reading his write-ups relevant to my areas of interest. That's all!

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Ch Seligi
Posted 02-25-2014 10:43 Reply Reply Privately

Noknroll, Can I suggest we replace the word "stalker" (which may have negative connotations) with a
follower, well perhaps to-be follower? I think it would be alright to be a follower of a vibration and rotating
equipment expert, won't it?

88. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

CS
Ch Seligi
Posted 02-25-2014 10:46 Reply Reply Privately

To Epete, Rusty Cas and Oli, thanks for your comments. I guess you guys are great facilitators or enablers
in learning in this forum.

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Rusty Castleman
Posted 02-26-2014 05:57 Reply Reply Privately

Candy, if you want to "follow" someone I'd choose someone like Nelson Baxter, an analyst with wide-
ranging experience, and a knack for explaining things in a simple manner. He's on the VIbration Institute
board of directors and is a great instructor if you get the chance to hear him. Hasn't written any books I
don't believe, but there are papers out there that I've found useful.

Plus, he's a heck of a nice guy.

 AMP Member Zone:
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WS
Walter Strong
Posted 02-26-2014 07:44 Reply Reply Privately

I don't do Facebook, but I suspect that's a better place to "follow" someone. This Forum, to me, is more
about discussions to share information and ideas and to help folks solve problems. It can be difficult to
interpret someone's intent, attitude, feelings, humor, or credentials (and other things) just by reading a
few words. I am sure my dry sense of humor could be misinterpreted with or without the use of
emoticons! Bill's reaction was a little heavy, but well within his online persona. I do not need to see
whatever certificates he has on the wall to judge his extensive capability and experience. He is certainly
one of the best contributors to this Forum, but I reserve the right to occasionally disagree. My advise to
Candy is to follow and contribute to the discussions on this Forum and not to "follow" a person.

Interesting there are 90 responses to OP and nearly 10,000 views since May 2008, but no one has given
at least a lousy 1-Start Rating!

Walt

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William Foiles
Posted 02-26-2014 09:38 Reply Reply Privately

I lead no cult and have neither sought followers nor stalkers.

92. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

John Winterton
Posted 02-26-2014 09:55 Reply Reply Privately
 “
AMP Member Zone:
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quote: Discussion Posts

Originally posted by Walt Strong: Interesting there are 90 responses to OP and nearly Directory
10,000 views since May 2008, but no one has given at least a lousy 1-Start Rating!
My Profile

”
Walt

Perhaps indicative of how some peope feel about Certification. I have no certifications and chose to
present myself on the merits of past work performance.

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CT
Craig Tomasinski
Posted 02-26-2014 17:34 Reply Reply Privately

“
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Tranter:
I can answer the second part of the question. The instructor must be certified one level
higher than the level he/she is teaching.

(However, if the certification body does not offer certification one level higher then the
body can approve a person who is suitably qualified and certified at the same level. And
when a certification body gets started (and therefore they do not have any certified
analysts) they can select instructors who are deemed by the technical committee to be

”
suitably qualified.)

So is this how it works then if instructing the highest level? Say for instance ISO Cat IV.
So therefore an instructor would have to be qualified to ISO Cat IV and then get approval from the
technical committee to instruct a Cat IV course.

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Craig Tomasinski Discussion Posts
Posted 02-26-2014 17:41 Reply Reply Privately
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“
quote:
Originally posted by John from PA:
My Profile

Perhaps indicative of how some peope feel about Certification. I have no certifications

”
and chose to present myself on the merits of past work performance.

I felt similar about it a few years ago but have now got certification and glad I did. I learnt a bit from those
courses. I did find the Mobius course content really good which also helped.

I guess if you can prove your competency to clients and the like then certification is not always required
but I think it helps.

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Jason Tranter
Posted 02-26-2014 18:51 Reply Reply Privately

“
quote:
Originally posted by Sinski:
So is this how it works then if instructing the highest level? Say for instance ISO Cat IV.
So therefore an instructor would have to be qualified to ISO Cat IV and then get approval

”
from the technical committee to instruct a Cat IV course.

Yes, there really is no other way to do it - it is a chicken/egg situation. In order to meeting ISO standards,
AND to ensure that customers are satisfied with the courses, we have to make sure that the instructor is
able to do a good job.

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Discussion Posts
Jason Tranter
Posted 02-26-2014 18:56 Reply Reply Privately
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“
My Profile

quote:
Originally posted by John from PA:
Perhaps indicative of how some people feel about Certification. I have no certifications

”
and chose to present myself on the merits of past work performance.

The challenge for the vast majority of vibration analysts is that they don't have esteemed careers like
John and Bill. Experience is so very important, and that should be the primary concern of an employer or
client, but certification is a statement about a person's education and knowledge, and in an indirect way,
their experience. (I say "indirect" because being certified does not carry with it any specific indication of
whether a person has experience in paper, mining, or any other industry.)

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William Foiles
Posted 02-27-2014 10:20 Reply Reply Privately

The way JohnPa feels is not uncommon. One has to evaluate what certification offers for oneself. For
some it has far greater advantages than for others.

I participated to set an example (for my many followers, perhaps

). As a result I did get a number of people with some experience fail the exam on first try. This didn't
encourage others.

How did Mobius 'boot strap' up to instructing the various levels, the chicken or the egg came first?

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Jason Tranter
Posted 02-28-2014 02:17 Reply Reply Privately
 “
AMP Member Zone:
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quote:
How did Mobius 'boot strap' up to instructing the various levels, the chicken or the egg Directory

”
came first?
My Profile

The chicken came first

We had to find people who clearly had enough field experience and experience delivering vibration
training. In all cases they had been teaching other vibration courses at the "Level 1", "Level 2" etc. levels
as they used to be known. In some cases they may have been "certified" by Technical Associates,
Vibration Institute or some other organization (there were no accredited third-party schemes back then).

In addition, I (or Bill K when he was with us), traveled to meet them, watched them teach sections of the
course, and test them.

Now we can rely on third-party certification schemes (i.e. Mobius and VI), but we still have to ensure that
they are very good instructors.

We have also developed extensive train-the-trainer systems (e-learning, so they can go through refresher
training) and I recorded myself teaching the courses that they can use as reference - because I do it
perfectly, of course

“
quote:

”
As a result I did get a number of people with some experience fail the exam on first try.

That is to be expected. There are people who have five years experience, but it is the same year repeated
five times. So I really believe in the requirement for training and experience (as well as passing the exam).

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William Foiles
Posted 02-28-2014 13:00 Reply Reply Privately
Most if not all of those who failed the exam, I would not vouch for. These were not
AMPmyMember
main focus
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taking the test. The experience level in years was well surpassed but not the real experience. When you
don't know what happens to direction of rotation when you come out of a gear box (and speed) you have Posts
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trouble.
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Lucky Emiantor
Posted 03-04-2014 08:07 Reply Reply Privately

That was a good explanation from Jason Tranter.

Regards,
Lucky Emiantor

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AS
As
Posted 03-16-2015 03:02 Reply Reply Privately

Hey jason
What if one fails in his first attempt,would he be able to attend the exam again without any extra
charge(fees).

if I'll register and deposit the amount today for my course then when I'll receive the reference materials
for the course and when I'll attend the training and exam.??

Please Help me in this regards.

102. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

JT
Jason Tranter
Posted 03-16-2015 03:57 Reply Reply Privately

Hi A K Sahoo,

I am afraid there is a cost to retake the exam because we have to go through the same process again to
 organize the exam, grade the exam, do the paper work, etc. etc. AMP Member Zone:
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When you register for the course you can start learning immediately in the on-line "Learning zone". You
Discussion Posts
can continue to access those videos (for six months) after the course so that it is available for refresher
training. And should you fail the exam, the videos will help you prepare for the re-sit. Directory

All the best, My Profile

Jason

103. RE: Vibration II Certification: Confusion 0 Recommend

AS
As
Posted 03-17-2015 00:13 Reply Reply Privately

Thanks Jason.
i'm sure that i wont fail the exam with Mobius by-side.

question 1:- if i will register today for Vibration Analysis CAT II Training & Certification Course
Start Date: 10/26/2015
then do Mobius provide me the access to learning from today to the course date i.e. from 17th march to
26th October and then thereafter for the period of 6 months after the certification.

Question 2:-What will be the exam date for the course on 10/26/2015?

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