(using Replit, ChatGPT, Upwork)

Mar 22, 2025, 3:49 AM

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(0:00) This episode is unlike any of the other episodes (0:03) because it is a
really approachable way (0:06) to make money on the internet of vibe coding (0:11)
and teaching you how people are doing it (0:13) by selling AI services on Upwork.
(0:18) Now, there's people who are making (0:21) five, 10, 15, $20,000 a month,
(0:24) solo devs or with a small team, (0:27) literally one prompting or a few
prompting (0:30) apps that they're finding on Upwork. (0:32) I thought this was
really interesting.
(0:34) Not because I wanna go and do Upwork stuff, (0:39) but because I think it's
a really good way to, (0:42) scouring Upwork is a really, really interesting way
(0:44) to see what are business problems (0:47) and what are SaaS businesses that
you can create. (0:49) So I had my friend Billy come on the pod (0:54) and this is
a guy who's started (0:55) and sold multiple Reclit apps (0:58) and just walk you
through how to think about (1:02) making money on the internet with vibe coding
(1:06) and how this whole Upwork ecosystem works. (1:09) Enjoy the episode and I'll
see you at the end of it.
(1:14) ♪ It's gonna find you ♪ (1:22) Billy Howell on the pod. (1:25) Billy's been
going viral recently (1:27) because he's been vibe coding his way (1:30) using
Reclit and selling those businesses (1:33) not just one time, but twice. (1:36) I
wanted to have him on on the show (1:38) to explain, well, what are we gonna learn
today? (1:41) I've got it laid out for you right here, Greg.
(1:43) We're gonna find out how to make profit with vibe coding. (1:48) Okay, I got
a lot of question marks, (1:50) but by the end of this episode, (1:54) what are
some tangible skills (1:56) that people are gonna learn (1:57) if they make it all
the way through? (1:59) Sure, the number one thing is (2:01) how to sell an app
that you've built. (2:03) That's what I get asked all the time (2:05) is how to
sell and how to market.
(2:07) And the secret is not to market, (2:09) it's just to sell it. (2:10) So
we're gonna walk you through that. (2:12) Okay, so you've got me intrigued.
(2:16) That's where I'm at, I'm in the intrigue phase. (2:18) Let's get right into
it. (2:20) So where do we start? (2:22) Okay, so we start, we need to find someone
(2:25) to buy the app before we build it.
(2:27) That's where most people get this wrong (2:28) is they build something and
then try to sell it (2:31) or try to get users. (2:32) But I found it's a lot
easier (2:34) to just find something someone wants to buy (2:36) and then build it.
(2:38) And so if you don't know anyone that wants to buy an app, (2:40) you should
go to Upwork.
(2:42) That's where I sold my first Repl.it app is Upwork. (2:46) And so all I did
was search for a technology (2:50) that I knew I could replace with an app. (2:54)
So I use Airtable a lot with past projects (2:56) and clients from a marketing
agency.
(2:58) And I was looking at these jobs to do Airtable consulting. (3:03) And I'm
sitting at my desk looking at this one (3:05) job description and I'm like, (3:06)
I think I could do this better and cheaper than in Airtable (3:10) because Airtable
you have to pay $20 a seat, right? (3:14) And so I made a prototype in Repl.it
(3:17) and then sent a loom to the guy and he's like, (3:19) I like your prototype
in Repl.it better. (3:21) And that's how it went.
(3:22) So we're gonna try to look for something here real quick (3:24) that we
could mock up to someone. (3:29) Okay, yeah, let's do it. (3:30) So by the way, I
must say I've never thought of doing this (3:33) before building anything.
(3:34) Like I didn't even think this was an option. (3:37) But it makes so much
sense, right? (3:39) This is validating. (3:41) You wanna build something that
people have validated before.
(3:45) Right, and you can go and you can search (3:48) custom app development on
Upwork or wherever. (3:51) But I think it's an easier sell (3:53) when you're
replacing something or doing something better (3:57) than existing software can do.
(4:01) Cool, so what are we looking at? (4:03) Okay, so we're looking at Upwork
listings here (4:05) of people who've posted a job (4:07) that has Airtable in the
keywords.
(4:11) So we're gonna look for something that we can (4:13) just make an MVP on.
(4:17) Daily Google ad calls. (4:21) No code expert need for MVP development.
(4:23) This is one I see a lot on Upwork. (4:26) And it's basically gonna be a
bunch of integrations. (4:29) MVP that integrates Calendly, Zapier, Airtable,
(4:32) SMS functionalities.
(4:37) I'm not sure if I like that one, what do you think? (4:40) I mean, I'm
curious your thought process. (4:43) So what about that one didn't you like? (4:47)
Well, for the purposes of this podcast, (4:49) this is gonna be a lot of digging
around (4:52) in developer docs to figure out (4:55) how we get these integrations
in a Repl.it app. (4:59) Repl.it might not one shot it, but we could try it.
(5:06) I mean, just put another way, (5:09) you're trying to prioritize apps (5:12)
that are gonna be easy to push and deploy, right? (5:16) You don't want complex
apps. (5:20) Yeah, usually we're looking for CRUD apps, right? (5:23) Something
where it's just putting data in a database, (5:26) pulling it, visualizing it.
(5:28) You could do all of this with vibe coding for sure.
(5:34) It's just gonna take more tinkering. (5:37) Okay, cool, so yeah, let's look
at maybe another one. (5:47) So this is case management for a nonprofit.
(5:51) So yeah, I mean, look at this, this is perfect. (5:57) Can you read it out
loud? (5:58) We have a lot of audio listeners (6:00) who are not on YouTube. (6:02)
So it's called Airtable Base Creation Specialist Needed.
(6:05) The description is we are looking to have (6:07) an Airtable base created
for a nonprofit. (6:10) The system will function as a case management (6:12) and
assistance tracking system. (6:14) The database will keep track of clients, (6:17)
their case notes, any assistance given, (6:20) their household members and
appointments.
(6:23) There should be an interface design (6:24) that will show an overview of the
business, (6:26) number of active clients, (6:27) amount of utilities paid, et
cetera. (6:29) The interface should also allow workers (6:31) to view client data
and input data. (6:34) So they're willing to pay $125 fixed for this project.
(6:39) When I look at that, I'm kind of like, (6:40) is it worth it? (6:42) What's
a good number? (6:43) How do you think about what the pricing (6:45) of some of
these are as an input (6:49) for if I should build this or not? (6:51) Yeah, so
this is definitely low. (6:55) You can look at how much money they've spent (6:57)
and kind of see. (6:58) So maybe these people are looking more (7:00) for overseas
help.
(7:02) You can always submit a proposal (7:05) and price over what they've put
(7:08) and hope that they bite. (7:11) On Upwork, you pay for credits to apply,
(7:14) like I'll show you down here, like connects. (7:21) And you wanna boost it
so that you're the top one (7:24) so they see yours.
(7:25) It just bumps it up on the hiring side (7:27) so it's first in their inbox.
(7:28) I don't know. (7:30) These are probably like $2, $3 worth of credits.
(7:36) But yeah, so for pricing, this is too low. (7:40) For something like this, I
mean the first one I did, (7:42) I did for 750 bucks. (7:44) I think you wanna try
to get closer to that.
(7:48) Probably that was underpriced a little bit too. (7:53) But then you can also
get recurring revenue (7:55) from clients who want you to add on features (7:57) in
the future, charge them to pay for hosting. (7:59) So I charge clients to pay for
hosting.
(8:01) So it all kind of depends on, (8:02) are you trying to get your foot in the
door? (8:05) What are you trying to make? (8:06) Right, yeah, I think, I guess the
other piece of this (8:10) is this person might be willing to pay $125 (8:13) but
someone else might be willing to pay $12,000. (8:16) Who knows, right? (8:17) So I
think maybe people need to do their due diligence (8:25) around like, okay, this
might not be worth it for 125 (8:31) but let me see on Upwork if there's other
requests (8:34) for a similar type of thing. (8:37) Quick break in the pod to tell
you a little bit (8:39) about Startup Empire.
(8:41) So Startup Empire is my private membership (8:45) where it's a bunch of
people like me, like you, (8:49) who wanna build out their startup ideas. (8:52)
Now they're looking for content to help accelerate that. (8:55) They're looking for
potential co-founders.
(8:57) They're looking for tutorials from people like me (9:01) to come in and tell
them, how do you do email marketing? (9:04) How do you build an audience? (9:05)
How do you go viral on Twitter? (9:07) All these different things. (9:08) That's
exactly what Startup Empire is. (9:11) And it's for people who wanna start a
startup (9:14) but are looking for ideas (9:16) or it's for people who have a
startup (9:18) but just they're not seeing the traction that they need.
(9:21) So you can check out the link (9:23) to startupempire.co in the description.
(9:28) Yeah, and so you can just do fixed price and do higher. (9:34) Automations
is also a good keyword to look for (9:36) because you can turn most automations
(9:39) into an app with a front end.
(9:42) This one is talking about growing a tutoring business. (9:47) They need a
custom workflow for parent inquiries. (9:52) Yeah, this could be good because they
need, (9:54) they're pretty much trying to cobble together (9:57) Google Forms,
Airtable, Typeform, Calendly, (10:02) a bunch of stuff.
(10:03) So you could make this into an app for sure. (10:06) And they wanna pay
2,500 bucks. (10:09) We'll take it, we'll take that 2,500 bucks.
(10:11) Is this not too complicated or do you think we can do it? (10:14) We can
definitely do at least the first part, (10:18) like the data entry on the call.
(10:20) All right, let's do it. (10:21) 2,500 bucks, let's do it.
(10:24) Yeah, and so at this point, (10:27) if it's a simple enough app and it's
2,500 bucks, (10:32) you could go ahead and build the prototype (10:35) and then in
the proposal send it as a loom link (10:39) of you demoing it for them, which I've
done (10:41) and it worked for the first one I ever did. (10:44) Otherwise, I would
just talk to them. (10:47) I would pull open my Airtable, my Repl.it (10:49) and be
like, I'm experienced with Airtable.
(10:52) We could build it out in here or we could do it in Repl.it. (10:55) And so
replace Airtable with whatever SaaS (10:58) you're honing in on. (10:59) If it's
Airtable or HubSpot or Google Sheets or whatever. (11:04) So let's just try to
prototype this real quick.
(11:07) I'm gonna take this whole description (11:09) and we're gonna cheat a
little. (11:12) How are we gonna cheat a little? (11:14) I like to feed it in the
chat GPT (11:17) and just tell it like, can you format these requirements (11:24)
as a PRD for an AI coding assistant? (11:31) Be agnostic when it comes to tech
stack (11:37) but make sure to use Shad CN. (11:42) Okay, so a PRD is a product
requirements document.
(11:47) Does that sound right? (11:48) That is right. (11:50) It's basically a form
that tells an engineer (11:52) like here's all the features you're gonna need.
(11:55) Here's like the data types and everything, lays it out.
(11:59) So we're gonna feed this into Repl.it (12:02) to see what we can get.
(12:04) And then what was the other thing I said? (12:07) Be agnostic about stack.
(12:10) I'm pretty much saying don't be opinionated.
(12:13) Don't say we need to use Vite or this kind of web framework. (12:18) Just
let Repl.it kind of do its thing (12:21) or whatever you use, you know? (12:23) And
you mentioned Repl.it a bunch of times. (12:26) Why are you using, we've had Amjad,
(12:28) the CEO of Repl.it on the pod before.
(12:32) Why are you using Repl.it versus the other platforms? (12:36) Yeah, yeah,
so I haven't tried Lovable (12:38) but I've used Bolt. (12:40) I would say those
are two comparable ones. (12:44) I like Repl.it because I think you can get (12:47)
from idea to MVP with the least amount of friction.
(12:53) You don't have to worry about package management, (12:56) installing stuff,
does all of that. (12:58) And then you can deploy really easily in test. (13:01) Of
course, I still use Cursor and WinSurf to edit.
(13:05) If I get stuck in a loop fixing something (13:08) or if it's something
really complex, (13:10) I'll pull the code down into WinSurf or Cursor (13:12) and
prompt there. (13:15) Cool, that's helpful. (13:18) All right, so what are we
looking at right here? (13:20) So this is the PRD that just failed to copy.
(13:23) Okay, this is, yeah, so this is, (13:27) I guess the new chat GPT does like
a split view (13:29) for docs like this. (13:32) Inquiry form which sends details
to our Gmail inbox. (13:37) Yeah, so it's laying out all the features like we said,
(13:40) just kind of translating it maybe so that (13:43) an engineer or an AI
engineer can understand it better.
(13:48) So let's go into Repl.it. (13:50) We're gonna paste that in and I'm just
gonna say (13:54) build me this app. (13:59) Use chats in where you can for UI.
(14:04) That's just the library I like of pre-built (14:05) React components.
(14:07) You don't have to say that. (14:09) And I think Repl.it might use it by
default anyways. (14:15) The other little hack is if you wanna specific, (14:20) if
you wanna upgrade the UI, (14:22) like say you've got all the app logic done,
(14:23) I go into VO and just describe what the page does.
(14:27) And then I pull that code. (14:29) So like an app screen for managing
(14:35) parent student inquiries. (14:38) You would obviously kind of lay it out
(14:40) more detailed than that.
(14:41) But you can just pull the front end code from VO (14:48) and it'll make you
a mock up really quick. (14:50) This is really good especially if a client has sent
you, (14:54) like if they sent you a drawing, like a wireframe, (14:56) you can
just pop it into VO, get that screen exactly. (15:01) Then in this step you could
just, (15:04) I'm not gonna use this, but you could also paste this in (15:07) and
tell Repl.it I have the front end code (15:09) for this screen so don't worry about
it.
(15:12) And it works pretty well. (15:15) Okay, so let's start building and see
what happens. (15:19) Let's start building.
(15:21) So this is Repl.it v2. (15:23) It's gonna go back and forth a little bit
with you (15:26) before it starts. (15:28) I think it's gonna ask me some questions
on features.
(15:31) And it uses Cloud 3.7. (15:34) What do you think of Cloud 3.7? (15:35) Have
you used it? (15:38) Yeah, I mean, I use it, frankly I use it (15:42) like less for
coding and more for writing basically. (15:51) But I mean it's a step in the right
direction. (15:54) We also used it to build a game (16:03) where that's pretty
cool, like one prompting a game.
(16:06) So I guess I have used it. (16:08) I don't know, I'm just numb to
everything now. (16:10) I'm like, oh yeah, I even forgot.
(16:12) Oh yeah, one prompted a game. (16:13) That's crazy, right? (16:15) Like
deployed game, like fully deployed, like insane. (16:19) If you would have told me
that, I went to CS school, (16:22) if you would have told me that, you know,
(16:24) how many years ago now, 15 years ago, (16:26) that you'd be able to one
prompt PRD, design, (16:32) front-end code, back-end, deployed (16:35) in like
under a few minutes, (16:37) I would have told you, you're crazy.
(16:41) I think I would have said the same thing, (16:43) because I wouldn't have
understood any of those words (16:46) because I studied public policy. (16:49) So
you're not even a developer by trade? (16:53) No, just kind of a self-taught script
kiddie, you know? (16:58) Yeah, for sure. (16:59) Okay, so it says, what is
happening on the screen? (17:03) All right, so the Repl.it agents read the PRD
(17:05) and kind of thought about it.
(17:07) Build the initial prototype. (17:08) I don't know what would happen if you
unchecked this. (17:12) But it asks, do you want any of these additional features?
(17:16) We definitely want a Postgres database.
(17:19) That's gonna be where all the user data is stored. (17:24) I mean, this is
kind of a wishlist. (17:26) And I would say in the past, with most AI, (17:29) this
kind of feature where you have a wishlist (17:32) distracts the AI.
(17:34) But I think Repl.it and Cloud 2.7 are so good now. (17:37) It really helps
kind of set up your app (17:41) to bolt these things on later. (17:43) So I'm gonna
check the ones that we want.
(17:47) Let's leave off DocuSign. (17:50) Maybe that was in the PRD though. (17:52)
Let's just see what happens.
(17:53) And then I'm not gonna deal with payment processor right now (17:58)
because that could get messy. (18:01) So we're gonna hit approve plan and start.
(18:06) And this is why, I mean, tools like Repl.it (18:11) and the other ones like
Bolt and Levelable are great (18:13) because you know that after you do that
prompt, (18:17) it's always going to make you something that runs.
(18:20) So you always have a starting point. (18:23) So you just get past that
initial writer's block, (18:26) which is a crazy way to think about code. (18:29)
And all the CS guys are probably cringing (18:31) hearing me describe it like that.
(18:33) But what can you say? (18:36) It's vibe coding, man. (18:38) That's exactly
what you could say. (18:40) And watch them cringe as you say it.
(18:44) Yeah. (18:45) Yeah. (18:46) I get a lot of people replying to my tweets
(18:49) that are just saying like, this app's gonna break.
(18:52) This is AI slop. (18:54) This guy is just making this up. (18:56) Is there
any truth to that? (18:59) No, no.
(19:01) So this product, this app, for example, (19:05) you feel comfortable that
this can go and see, (19:08) I mean, we haven't finished it yet, (19:09) but that
it could see the light of day (19:12) that someone can use (19:13) and it can be
valuable in their business? (19:16) Definitely, yeah. (19:17) It definitely takes,
I mean, (19:20) if you have no idea how code is working, (19:23) you probably
shouldn't be putting out a production app. (19:25) It does take some TLC to make
sure (19:28) to look out for things that you know would break (19:31) once you put
it in production.
(19:34) You can anticipate how users are gonna break the app. (19:41) But so yeah,
you just kind of have to have the foresight (19:43) for stuff like that. (19:46)
But otherwise, yeah, these are pretty solid apps.
(19:49) They're just so simple. (19:50) They're crud apps, you know? (19:53) Right,
yeah. (19:55) It's when you start adding more complex features (19:58) that you
could get in a little bit of trouble, right? (20:00) I saw like the DocuSign
integration.
(20:03) Yep. (20:05) You know, payments, that gets, (20:07) you know, a bit more
complicated. (20:10) What else can get more complicated? (20:12) Like what should
people look out for? (20:14) Yeah, payments, definitely.
(20:18) DocuSign, anything to do with a calendar. (20:21) AI in general gets kind
of mixed up (20:24) with date formatting in time zones. (20:27) Okay.
(20:27) So that's something to look out for, for sure. (20:33) But then on the
other hand, (20:34) I made a, I've skimmed the HubSpot docs (20:38) and kind of
copied and pasted in (20:41) what I thought we would need into Repl.it. (20:43) And
it set up OAuth with Repl.it like flawlessly. (20:46) Like I was dumbstruck.
(20:49) So it is pretty capable at integrating other services, (20:55) especially
things that are just like (20:57) kind of basic API, like get calls. (21:01) If
you're doing anything with like posts (21:02) where you're changing data and other
apps or servers, (21:06) that could get really dicey. (21:08) You want to make sure
you're like locked down there.
(21:11) What I do now that this is like a real agency (21:15) is I kind of have a
dev that specializes (21:19) in this kind of stuff. (21:20) Go through and do like
the last 15% (21:22) and kick the tires, right? (21:25) So that's, and you can hire
people (21:27) straight off of Repl.it. (21:29) They have bounties and stuff to do
that kind of thing, (21:33) just like hourly or for a fee. (21:36) So that's
definitely a good idea.
(21:37) While that's loading, can you, (21:38) I've never done a bounty on Repl.it.
(21:40) I've heard about it. (21:42) Can you just show us where we'd find that
(21:45) and what that looks like? (21:48) It's just right here in your dash.
(21:54) Let's see.
(21:55) I actually haven't posted one yet. (21:58) Okay, so this is crazy. (22:00)
So for like 500 bucks, someone could get (22:02) a custom tool, an automated
system.
(22:04) $1,500, you're getting a web application. (22:07) But more interesting to
me, (22:09) and I think a lot of people listening, (22:12) the get help button.
(22:14) Right, like the fact that you can take it (22:17) to 90%, 80% vibe coding.
(22:19) Sometimes something's not working (22:21) and it's really frustrating,
(22:23) and you're sitting there talking to your girlfriend (22:25) or whatever,
your wife, your husband, (22:28) and you're like, I'm so close, (22:31) I'm so
close yet so far, the get help button. (22:33) So what happens if you click get
help? (22:35) Okay. (22:35) You can give the bounty a name, (22:37) when you want
it done by, describe the problem, (22:40) and then you have to buy credits, I
think.
(22:45) Yeah. (22:47) It seems like they're called cycles, (22:49) which is like a
coin or whatever. (22:53) Yeah, does Repl.it have its own crypto? (22:55) Right,
like they're a meme coin? (22:58) Yeah, so this is something I definitely (23:00)
need to be more disciplined about.
(23:01) It's just like 50 bucks to troubleshoot something (23:04) is such a good
use of money (23:06) versus me banging my head against the wall, (23:10) earning
$10 in AI credits (23:14) and six hours of my night, you know? (23:17) Totally, and
especially if you're, (23:19) like this is your business now, right? (23:22) So if
you're going in, you're going on to Upwork (23:27) and you're trying to make this a
business, (23:29) but by the way, before we go back (23:32) to the Repl.it screen,
how much are people, (23:35) how much is the most money you can make on Upwork?
(23:40) The top people of Upwork, the Michael Jordan, (23:43) the LeBron James of
Upwork, what are we talking about? (23:47) Six figures, easy. (23:49) I know one
person that does over six figures. (23:55) But he has an agency team, right,
(23:57) to support him doing SEO.
(23:59) But you can go on his profile. (24:01) Yep. (24:01) Are we talking, oh, you
can go on his profile? (24:03) It doesn't say how much you make, right? (24:05) It
says how much dollars of jobs you've completed.
(24:10) Oh, okay. (24:12) I'm curious if, you know, when you say six figures,
(24:15) is it like $100,000, is it $900,000, you know? (24:20) Like if you go look,
if I switch to client. (24:24) $200,000 earned, $600,000 earned.
(24:28) And then it's like $12 an hour making $600,000. (24:31) That's crazy.
(24:34) Right, but not to, I'm not picking on this guy, (24:37) but a lot of these
are kind of like, (24:39) it's $12 to get in the door, (24:41) and then maybe they
upsell you.
(24:42) Of course. (24:43) Or give it to their team, right? (24:47) I would say
like Solo Dolo, (24:51) I think you could easily clear five, 10K a month (24:57)
just without any outside help. (25:00) Definitely building apps, but even just
like, (25:02) if you consult on the right kind of projects (25:04) surrounding like
a specific SaaS.
(25:08) Cool. (25:09) All right, should we go back to see our Repl.it? (25:12)
Let's see how we're doing here. (25:15) Let's see what we've done.
(25:17) Building the initial prototype. (25:19) So real quick in Repl.it, this is
the agent (25:22) which kind of acts autonomously. (25:24) And right now he's going
through (25:26) and scaffolding out the whole app.
(25:28) We can see it here in the files on the left. (25:32) This is the client,
this is what the user sees. (25:36) He's building out components.
(25:40) He, isn't that weird that I say he? (25:42) I was gonna call you out on
that. (25:45) I didn't want to get you canceled, (25:46) but is there a particular
reason why you called Repl.it he? (25:52) No, I don't know. (25:55) Is that, yeah,
I don't know what I should say.
(25:57) Repl.it's building out. (25:58) It's okay, yeah. (25:59) We can move on
from that.
(26:01) The comment section is gonna have a field day with that one. (26:08) Yeah,
anyways, you can see all the files here. (26:13) One thing is you gotta make sure
(26:16) they initialize the database.
(26:18) I've noticed lately sometimes the Repl.it (26:20) doesn't initialize the
database right away. (26:24) But he's still going. (26:27) So, is he building a
screen we can see? (26:30) Yeah, okay, so we can see this dashboard.
(26:33) So a new thing in Repl.v2 that they've added (26:35) is it scaffolds a UI
that doesn't do anything (26:40) line by line when you start building (26:43) just
to kind of wow you. (26:44) And it blows my mind every time. (26:47) It usually
looks sick.
(26:50) Let's see if I can pop this out. (26:51) No, not letting me. (26:52) Okay,
and it looks like it's doing a mobile app design.
(26:58) Which is interesting. (26:59) I'm curious why it's doing that. (27:03) So,
maybe it was in the PRD? (27:05) Or maybe it's just taking some liberty.
(27:08) I think maybe it is. (27:10) I mean, I'm not against it. (27:12) It's just
genuinely curiosity.
(27:15) Yeah, I've never had it do that. (27:17) Interesting, so that was probably
my fault. (27:20) I think usually I do specify web app.
(27:23) And lately I've just been not doing that (27:25) because usually it knows.
(27:26) Either way, I mean we can interact with it in the web. (27:29) And you can
see I've got so many.
(27:32) So we can see where I started like four months ago. (27:36) I made a
captain's log app that you just talk into (27:39) and uses AI to like summarize
your day. (27:43) And since then I made like 40 more.
(27:48) It's crazy. (27:49) It's crazy. (27:50) And we'll talk at the end.
(27:53) Once this is live I want to talk about (27:55) the process for selling.
(27:57) Right, it doesn't have to be Upwork either. (28:01) So my best projects,
best projects are always referrals.
(28:05) So people come in and just be like, (28:08) hey can you help me do X, Y, Z
with this client. (28:11) Or fix this internal tooling. (28:13) So I think what you
can do if you're like (28:15) an entrepreneur trying to do this (28:17) is build
like one or two apps.
(28:21) Probably more than that. (28:22) Like get good at it. (28:23) Like I made
like 40.
(28:25) And then just call business owners (28:27) and be like what's the most
annoying thing you do? (28:30) Or like what's the most expensive SaaS you use?
(28:33) And then make them an app, right? (28:35) And be like, and try to sell it
to them. (28:39) Right. (28:40) And you know, you decided to, (28:45) I mean we're
talking about basically creating, (28:47) basically doing consulting.
(28:49) This is essentially consulting. (28:50) You're doing consulting. (28:51)
You're just using AI to do consulting and building.
(28:54) But you're doing consulting. (28:58) Vibe consulting. (29:00) Vibe coding.
(29:01) And you know, but you've decided not to go (29:03) and build a SaaS and
sell it to people, right? (29:07) Nightmare, money pit. (29:09) So I want you to
talk about, (29:12) because people are, I want you to talk about that. (29:13)
Because people are probably gonna, (29:15) there's gonna be a lot of people
listening to this (29:16) and be like, this is small boy stuff, you know? (29:20)
This is a few hundred dollars here, (29:22) a few thousand dollars there.
(29:24) The real opportunity is building (29:25) multi-million dollar a year SaaS
businesses. (29:27) What do you say to those people? (29:30) It's a nightmare and
it's a money pit you're gonna spend. (29:33) Ton of money on marketing.
(29:36) I just don't, I get that it's an asymmetric bet, (29:40) but like you gotta
have the juice to do that, right? (29:42) Yeah, you have to, the reality is (29:48)
you have to know how to juice, right? (29:52) Like understanding distribution
(29:54) is a completely different skill set (29:56) than, for example, building.