Mind Bending Language

Round Table
Module 7 Transcript

By Igor Ledochowski
 Mind Bending Language Round Table – Module 7 - Transcript

Table of Contents

Module 7 - Using MBL For Pain Control, Stop Smoking & Weight Loss & A Demo Of
Group Therapy In Reverse............................................................................................ 3
Q&A On Pain Control, Smoking & Weight Loss ............................................................... 3
Demo - Group Therapy In Reverse! ............................................................................... 14
Demo Debrief And Closing ............................................................................................ 53

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 Mind Bending Language Round Table – Module 7 - Transcript

Module 7 - Using MBL For Pain Control, Stop

Smoking & Weight Loss & A Demo Of Group
Therapy In Reverse

Q&A On Pain Control, Smoking & Weight Loss

Igor: Simple? Easy? Questions or comments?

Student: So, for pain control and using it Mind Bending Language, you’re just shifting
attention within pain control and testing that again right?

Igor: Let’s look at the concept of pain control, first of all. The first thing is that
most people think that pain control is about having the absence of pain,
when it is not. We have three components for most pain.

 Sensation
 Judgment of our sensation
 Suffering

They’re not all the same thing. The same sensation can be experienced as
pleasant to some and unpleasant to others. Anyone here not like coffee?
Anyone here that does like coffee? There you go. For one person it’s
suffering, for another person it’s not, it’s the opinion of the issue that
matters. Now, where suffering comes from is rejection. When we don’t want
to accept what is happening we suffer. That means, either we’re not having a
good thing we want or we are having a bad thing we don’t want. Do you see
how that works?

Or the really twisted one is, we’re having a good thing but are afraid of losing
it, so we’re actually not enjoying the good thing whilst it’s lasting. Or we’re
having a small bad thing and we’re afraid it’ll continue much longer than it
normally does, so we amplify it by trying to reject it more vigorously. That’s
what’s causing suffering, so the very first thing, the Holy Grail of pain control
is to diminish suffering, not diminish sensation. Diminishing sensation is just
one way of doing that.

Now, suffering, as you’ve noticed is a three-step process or a third stage

process. They have to first have a sensation which they’re aware of. Then

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 Mind Bending Language Round Table – Module 7 - Transcript

they have to have a judgment around their sensation and as a result of that
judgment they have to react to the judgment of that sensation. Do you see
how that works? So you have lots of places to intervene on that.

1. You can distract from the sensation that gets rid of one root.

2. You can change a belief around, whether it’s how you should respond
to unpleasant things, that gets rid of the suffering.

3. You can change the nature of the experience, what it symbolizes

whether it’s pleasant or unpleasant.

So, what used to be unpleasant becomes more pleasant now. Do you see
how that works? Did that help you there?

Student: Yes, thank you.

Igor: Other questions.

Student: So, I guess I may as well go to a couple of the other big 3 here, which was the
smoking and weight control.

Igor: So smoking. Weight control is a bigger issue because it has multiple things,
we’ll talk about that in a second. Smoking is very straightforward.

First of all, there’s a habit of smoking.

Second of all, the trigger of smoking and what gets them started.
Thirdly, there’s the perceived payoff of smoking, which is mostly a belief.

The trigger can be a state thing or like when you’re drinking something and
you just pair the association. The belief then can be things like, oh it’s time to
relax, time to talk with other people, it’s about being social, so it has a
symbolic element, a belief element within it. Then you basically deconstruct
all those elements. Here’s how I’d do a smoking session.

First of all, I had a checklist of a dozen or so primary reasons that most

smokers have. It’s very rare they’re outside of that list. It’s in the stop
smoking course we have. You just ask them; why do you smoke? Is it for this
reason or that reason or that reason? Tell me more. You’ll get a bit more

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context around it and then, depending on how you want to do it, the way I
used to do it is very simple, direct blitz on each one.

You know you realize that this can’t do that for these reasons. As a doctor it’s
even better, because when someone says I use it to relax, you can actually
show them how the toxins are stressing their system out more and it’s a
pseudo relaxation. It’s really what they’re feeling as relaxing is the tension
they’ve just created being reduced again. So the reframe I used to us is, it’s
kind of like banging your head against the wall just so you can feel the relief
when the pain goes away.

A lot of people accepted that. As soon as they accept that, which is based on
the relationship you’ve developed beforehand. As soon as they let go of their
beliefs around why they need smoking, then you’re mostly done as far as I’m
concerned. Now you just need some kind of ritual to release it and maybe
put something around, dealing with the craving element, which are part of
the chemical addiction, but also some cravings are just empty habits, and
those are just other things to look at.

So you have the belief element around it or what it symbolizes. To bust those
that usually takes 10-20 minutes, depending on how intense they are with
that. Then the cravings, I usually leave to the end and I have the actual habit
portion itself, where I create a symbolic ritual, a thing to go from the identity
of a smoker to the identity of a non-smoker. You can that do mind bendingly
as well, of course. So who are you now that’s not smoking? Are you smoking
right now? No. When was the last cigarette you had? An hour ago. To me
you’ve been a non-smoker for a whole hour? I guess so. Ha, ha, ha that’s very
funny. I’ll probably smoke again.

How do you know? What do you mean how do I know, I’ve always smoked
before? Well, that’s who you were then. You thought it would do these
things for you, do you still believe that? No. So, now that you don’t believe
that what makes you think you’ll still want to smoke? I just do. Really? How
come? I’ve always done it. So, you’re telling me you always do the things
you’ve always done? Well no, give me an example. Well, when I was a kid I
used to like wearing mama’s dresses and now that I’m a man I don’t.

Okay, so you’re basically telling me that at some point you’ve decided you’ve
had enough – direct suggestion – you’ve had enough and it’s time to become
someone new is that right? Are you glad you became this someone new?

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Yes. How does it feel to be this someone new? Well, it feels fantastic. Well,
as you feel this fantastic notice, that fantastic feeling is not just a feeling it
symbolizes change does it not, because of where it came from? So, as you
feel this fantastic, think about the cigarette and what happens? I don’t want
one. Isn’t that interesting? Have you ever thought about cigarettes before
and not actually wanted one? Well, I don’t know. Well, think about it. You
have or you haven’t. I guess I haven’t.

Do you guess or do you know? Do you see how we’re slowly eroding their
beliefs around this until they came to the identity of being a non-smoker? So
what’s happening now? Well, I feel pretty good. You feel pretty good about
what, the fact that you’re not going to smoke? Well yeah. So you’re telling
me you’re sitting here feeling good, looking at the future and having a sense
that you’re not going to smoke. Is that what you’re telling me? Well yes. All
right, let’s check this out.

You have a drink in your hand, you’re at a party and everyone’s running
around. You drink and of course what happens? Nothing, I just keep talking.
Really? How do you feel? I feel good. How do you feel about the fact that you
haven’t taken a cigarette? I actually feel good about that. It’s amazing. So
now they’re having a belief around a habit, which cements that habit in.

Okay, but of course you’re at a party now and someone needs to smoke and
says hey, c’mon George you really want to smoke this. Come on, join me for
old time’s sake, what do you do? I say no thank you. Why? Well, because I
don’t want to smoke, it’s a filthy habit. So what do you say? No thank you.
How can you say that? Because I don’t want it. Really? Well yeah. How do
you know? I don’t feel like it.

Do you see the cycle? It’s the same cycles again. Then the last part would be
about cravings. That I will handle with either a blitz and give them a little
technique. I had a craving buster which was a simple technique I could drop
through to help through the cravings or even something symbolic. One of the
suggestions I used to love giving people is, because this really is a process
where I build people up to get high on life when this happens.

Then I leave them with the suggestion that, sometimes the unconscious mind
is so excited by the changes that it masks all the symptoms of the transition
from the physical addiction and by the time that high calms down, it’s too

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late the addiction is gone. The physical part is all gone. So, what do you
reckon about that? I don’t know, I think it’s kind of cool.

Do you see how that works? I’ve given them a suggestion indirectly that they
can mask the symptoms, but not everyone actually does that, some people
have to suffer, in which case you go great how much do you want to suffer to
prove to yourself you’re a non-smoker? Just a little bit. All right. In that case,
let’s make sure you have just enough cravings that you can prove to yourself
that you can win.

So it doesn’t really matter which way they go, this is a belief system. Then it
becomes a symbol, saying no to the craving symbolizes an identity they’d like
to have, which is actually another kind of belief, which then feeds into a
feeling they have that reinforces the habit of not smoking, which then goes
into a behavior, a physical thing or maybe a yawn or a glass of water or a
deep breath in and then the deep breath in is energizing on its own.

So, with that deep breath in it proves to them that they’re a non-smoker
which is an identity level, which is a belief. The breath then symbolizes their
new state as a non-smoker, which then triggers another feeling, which is
coupled to the feeling of the minor rush you get anyways, like the vagal
response when you take a deep breath. So that’s a calming response
anyways. That calming response links in with the emotions created by the
symbolism the breath has, so that had a double-whammy of “the
physiological calming”, plus all the expected emotion from the symbolism.

Now, they take a deep breath and go, my goodness, this really does work I
feel better. I don’t need a cigarette to feel calm, I’m just calm. It’s me. I need
nothing outside me, I’m perfect just the way I am. There’s the blitz right
there again. Do you see how they all roll in together? Is this useful to you?

Student: Hmm.

Igor: Weight loss is a bit more tricky, only because weight loss itself has many
different elements involved in it. You have to have longer conversations with
them to find out what’s going on, in terms of their eating. So you have the
cultural meaning. The food symbolizes very important things in most
cultures. Until you deal with this cultural association, you’re running an uphill
battle with food.

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Of course, especially in more extreme versions with things like anorexia and
bulimia. Especially anorexia as it symbolizes control.

Then we have body image. In other words, how they relate to themselves,
which is part of your belief thing, part of a symbolic thing, part of their
emotional thing and of course, their physical thing. They see their reflection
in the mirror or whatever things they look at and they reject it. It’s the
rejection process that causes the crumbling of their identity and that then
feeds into the negative habit, which is medicating through sugar, food and
alcohol.

You have one portion then dealing with cultural associations to food, one
portion that deals with their body image, generally. Then you have their
relationships to food itself. What do they use food for? There’s the cultural
issues, but there’s also self-medication if they’re depressed. If they’re doing
other things, do they use food to celebrate? Is it part of their cultural thing to
self-medicate, that’s hardly an emotion thing? Which means at some point,
you’re going to have to open that great big can of worms called emotions or
feelings.

A lot of weight issues, especially in women more so than men, but even with
men as well, has to do with stress eating or self-medication. If people don’t
want to deal with their emotions, they’ll turn to food instead. We’ve all done
it and I’m sure we’ll all do it again at some point, it’s just a question of, what
degree we’re doing it at. So, to the extent that they are more able to relate
to their emotions in a healthier way, the need served by eating, sugars and
other bad things in particular, gets reduced.

So then there’s a whole portion of our emotions. That in itself can be a whole
several sessions. It could be weeks that you can work with some people,
months even with some people on that alone. Then you have nutrition. Some
people just simply don’t know what to eat. They have no idea so they just eat
whatever empty habits they’ve been taught by their parents and so on. So
sometimes just a simple basic course of nutrition is all that they need, but
then we need to do it hypnotically because the unhealthy foods have
habituated and are part of their culture associations, again all these things
linked together.

Now you need to create equal meaning symbols for healthy foods as they
have unhealthy foods. Let’s say someone grew up on McDonald’s

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hamburgers. It might mean every time I had a birthday we went to

McDonald’s. Every time I wanted something I went to McDonalds. Every time
it’s good I’d go to McDonalds’. These are all cultural conditionings, beliefs
and symbols that hamburgers is celebration. So now, not only do you have
the nutritional elements that hamburgers aren’t very good for you. You also
need to help them enjoy other foods equally well.

So you have the emotional aspect as well as the symbolic aspect, as well as
possibly the belief aspect around them. Do you see how there’s a whole
bunch of things around there to look at? Part of their body image is their
relationship to their physical reality. Then we have what exercise? What did
exercise mean? Most people have such a misunderstanding of what exercise
is. They think they have to be in some tight spandex running up on some
expensive machine or doing whatever, but it isn’t.

The reframe I like to use is exercise as movement. Any time you move you’re
burning calories. So where do you enjoy moving your body? Some people will
do it for dancing. Some people like going for a walk. That’s great. Why punish
them when they’re actually being more active. Here’s a great example of
this. I think Langer did an experiment with this in office workers and he went
to two groups and one said, in the one group they gave them the exact
caloric breakdown of how many calories they burned, every time they stand
up from their chairs.

It’s a bit like what we do in squats, we’ve got at least this many calories.
Every time you walk to the coffee machine, if it’s that length of a walk, that
means you’re burning this amount of calories. Every time you walk up a flight
of stairs because you’ve got the elevator on the first level. You’re burning
these amount of calories and so on. Whereas, the other group didn’t, they
just pointed out that moving around just by standing up and going to the
coffee machine and doing these things.

They didn’t give the equation of actually movement as exercise, in terms of

calorie burning. Guess what? Without changing anything perceptible in their
behavior, the first group lost significant amounts of weight without doing
anything different. The difficulty is, is actually did they not do something
different or did they not feel like doing something different? That’s a little
more questionable. Either way it doesn’t matter, you see, even if they did
nothing physically different, it just means the belief that they were burning

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more calories, caused their metabolic change so they burned more calories.
It’s the placebo effect and the priming effect in action.

Even if knowing that standing up is like doing a squat then they might stand
up a little more often during the day and go, you know what, I’m a little tired,
might as well just stand up a second. Why not it’s good for me? So you have
a reinforcing belief that actually increases activity, which also increases the
calories we burn. So, either way, they win.

What had to happen first? It’s a belief, the equation that movement equals
exercise, not sweating in some horrible gym where everyone else looks
better than you and seems at ease with what they’re doing, whilst you feel
completely lost and judged and criticized. What’s the point of you doing it
anyways, because they are so much better anyway they probably don’t like
you? That one looks like the mean girl that used to pull my hair at school;
bitch. Do you see what I’m trying to say here?

Student: Yeah.

Igor: So, their changing their relationship to movement as exercise is a huge one,
because then, what if they start doing things they enjoy? Here’s a crazy thing,
spend a week exploring what movements you actually like making. That’s a
crazy one isn’t it? Maybe you like dancing better than you do dancing as
exercise. Anyone here ever dance? Doesn’t that burn calories there?

Student: Quite a bit.

Igor: Isn’t that more fun than running on a treadmill?

Student: Not necessarily.

Igor: Well, it depends on if you enjoy the treadmill.

Student: So you’re a dancer?

Igor: I was a dancer and then I became a hypnotist and got really busy.

What other things do they enjoy? Maybe they actually enjoy the quiet time
when they’re walking the dog. Great! Maybe they started enjoying paying
attention to the walk more, so that either they both get more benefit from

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that and they might extend their walks because they’re actually fun. They
suddenly realize, I’m actually getting a lot out of this. Maybe it’s the old,
actually I don’t mind walking and the other day I had to park my car further
away in the parking lot and I kind of enjoyed it.

One thing I used to do which I enjoyed was a complete surprise, I didn’t

realize it, was nature proving a point to me and that is, I really like running
for a bus. Initially I did it because I didn’t like being late, but when I made it I
had such a victorious feeling I secretly hoped that maybe the bus is going to
be there today when I get there so I have an excuse to run. Can you imagine
running to the bus that’s empty, like oh yeah I got it this is great. I was
missing it and actually looked forward to the days. I had a sense of when the
bus might come, so I waited, especially when I was running around the cars.
Of course, sometimes I’d miss the bus because he would be early and it
ruined my thing.

Do you see how that totally changes people’s attitude to their physical
experience? That’s all exercise is, is your relationship to gravity, essentially.
Do you see how that works? Does that help? Mind Bending Language has all
of those things, but of course you’re not limited to that. So here’s an
interesting thing. How is Mind Bending Language not the same as a Non-
Awareness Set? How is Mind Bending Language not the same as the Dynamic
Mental Imagery? What about a mind bending regression? Is it blitzed on
mind bending sometimes? What about a plain old question or what about
offering people a chance to not leave the problem and just sit with it for a
while?

Get the idea? You have a lot of choice in this model. The thing is, don’t try to
think ahead too much. Really, all you’re thinking is, what are you getting, is it
good? Put it to the beginning. Is it neutral? Well, then spin it a little bit into
something good and put it back to the beginning. Is it bad? Well, treat this as
a new beginning until you get something good enough and then you can first
blow this one out and this new one is a double resource, because there’s a
resource at the level of the state, the emotion, which will help this. It’s also a
resource at the level of symbolism, because this proves they can change
negative things.

So, both the symbolic and the emotional level that resolves this is much
higher. Meanwhile, once they do this and this reduces again, a belief is
formed and it’s fed right back into the belief, it’s just another one of these

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things, so you feed the belief right back in. I can do this. Nothing is
impossible. Everything is possible. If you think everything is possible, think
about this. Do you see how new stuff keeps coming out? Each new stuff is
fed back in here, which creates some new reaction and the reaction is really
good, bad or indifferent. It doesn’t matter, give a solution to whichever one
comes.

Do you see how that works?

I would love to claim authorship of this little piece of genius, but I can’t this is
all John Overdurf, but it is a piece of genius.

Student: So, as an example we have this negative memory. Then it resurfaces and we
use positive resources going back to switch the negative memory into
something positive. Would we approach differently some good memories
that actually is not something they’re looking for? I’m like let’s talk about
addictions, something that they will remember something positive but they
know intellectually is not…

Igor: Related to it.

Student: … healthy.

Igor: Yeah. If it’s not healthy then you have a conflict between the level of state
and the level of symbolism. Like for example, if someone has an addiction
and they use cocaine to overcome the problem they have with their boss
then the problem here is, is exactly how these problems get formed. In fact,
that’s exactly how an addiction gets formed. It’s when they’re trying to use
the wrong thing as the resource to fix something else, which actually makes
the problem worse.

Another classic one is insomnia, where a very common thing people do is

they’ll drink themselves to sleep. Why? Because they realize that drinking
shuts them up and then they pass out. But it’s not the kind of sleep that they
need, so over a period of time it just leads to more alcoholism and their
solution worked less as the body acclimatized to the alcohol content but not
to the sleep part. So yes, that you have to be careful with, at the level of
symbolism and so on, but as soon as the whole thing is a positive thing,
symbolizing something positive and had maybe a positive belief allowed
around it, then you can bring it right back in again and see what’s happening.

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 Mind Bending Language Round Table – Module 7 - Transcript

Does that make sense?

Student: It does. Just, my idea was that we can use that with some positive memories
to switch that.

Igor: So you can make it concrete.

Student: Well, for example, I have a son who spoke about this experience with a girl
and he actually remembers such a great thing with her, but right now they’ve
broke up.

Igor: Excellent. In that case, that’s later. When he thinks about the girl and he gets
sad about breaking up, then that’s not a resource because the level of state
has already collapsed. But, if he can separate the two events and you know
when we started we were fantastic, so what was it like to be in love at that
time? It felt great! So as he’s feeling that great, bring just that back.

Notice the Mind Bending Language, we’re separating it from all the things
that happened afterwards, so you’re basically outframing the negative stuff
afterwards, so just bring that back and if they can’t separate the two, you
may need to separate the two first and then fix the relationship first,
especially if it has symbolic relevance to the original problem. Then, as
you’ve done that, really you’re describing this.

So then fixing the break-up, makes it not only with a resource of level of
state, but it also becomes a symbolic resource and a state resource that can
go back to this, because if I can overcome that kind of heartbreak, I can do
anything. So now you have a belief, a symbol and a state, all in one event.
Does that make sense?

Student: Yeah.

Igor: Any other questions?

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Demo - Group Therapy In Reverse!

Igor: Here’s an offer I want to make to you all. It’s up to you to do this or not. It
depends on if someone’s willing to volunteer. If someone wants to volunteer
a problem, and it can be a simple problem. It doesn’t have to be a big deal,
it’s entirely up to you what you share. Then what I think would be fun to do is
if one person comes up here to be the client, we’ll have group therapy in
reverse, which means all of you can be a therapist and we can discuss each
maneuver we’re about to try, as a group.

Then one of you gets to try to see what the reaction is, to see what comes
out and then we’ll discuss the next step and that way we can see how this
model actually looks like in action. Rather than me doing it, we all get to have
an experience of what’s going on. Would that be useful to you?

Who would like to volunteer, I need someone to come up.

Gloria: It’s actually a pretty big deal. One of the reasons why I’m late is because I had
a crisis with my daughter and son. It’s pretty big.

Igor: Okay, nice small challenge to make it easy for everyone. I’m happy to go with
it if you guys are happy to go with it.

Student: Let’s do it.

Igor: What time is it right now? It’s 5:25. There may be an issue around time here,
because I know some people that have to head off by 6:00 or 6:30. So, is it
okay with you if we do this on the premise of, if we run out of time we’ll
leave you in a good place? We may not resolve all of it, but it’ll get far
enough that maybe more can start happening on its own. And, of course, if
we can get it all in that half hour, so much the better. Is that okay? You’re
okay with that?

Student: Perfect.

Igor: Just checking with your unconscious mind to make sure that even if you
don’t resolve the entire thing that at least you can be left in a better place
than you started. Good. Do you see the nice congruent body language? Does
that tell us something, in terms of reality she’s in. Has she just fixed the
problem to some degree?

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Student: Yep, she started.

Igor: It’s already started; do you see how just even asking that he’s already
beginning to help.

Student: Would you say that the subconscious goes from here to resolution and
subconscious is already saying I’m with you?

Igor: Exactly. We’ve already set the parameters of the map. We haven’t actually
talked about what a resolution is yet, but we’ve actually put empowerment
in the place where there was disempowerment. Right.

Okay, so give a nice round of applause, come on up.

The experience you’re having is actually very common and again is part of a
priming effect. You expect a resolution, so pure placebo alone will work, and
of course, it’s not just placebo it’s the amazing placebo. And this, by the way,
is one of the advantages you have if you’ve been working formally as a
coach, therapist or whatever you’re doing, because by the time a client is
sitting in your session, unless they’re actually running a therapist defeating
competition, which some clients do.

The fact they’re in your session often means that stuff is already happening
for them. See what I mean? So if you have a tricky client you can actually
frustrate them coming long enough for them to fix most of this and by the
time they sit here, you can make miracles more easily.

I’ll pass this around, who wants to go first? We have a rough idea of what the
problem is. We need someone now to start with the pea pod, which is the
problem pod initially, which is associate to the problem. Who would like to
get a general sense of what’s going on there?

Student: So Gloria, you have this issue with your daughter. Can you just give me an
example of the last time this happened?

Gloria: No. It’s ongoing right now.

Student: Now it’s ongoing?

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Gloria: Yes.

Student: Okay.

Igor: This is a perfect thing, because it’s happening right now. Do you need
sensory information?

Student: No.

Igor: No, if it’s happening right now then this is the memory being formed. It’s
actually catching the memory at its root. The only reason for the sensory part
is, if the memory has already been stored and you have to reactivate it, but
right now it’s ongoing, so whatever you put on top of this experience is going
to decide how this memory will encode. Does that make sense to you all?

Of course, you can if you want to go a bit more into what happened and so
on, if you want to. Just know, whatever you do right now it’s already doing
something. Get the idea? Are you happy with that or you want to carry on?

Student: I’ll ask one more question. So it’s happening right now and how are you
feeling?

Gloria: At the moment, anxiety a little bit as I think about it, the question and
relating it, I feel anxiety.

Student: So as you think about the question and you relate to it, you feel anxiety.

Gloria: Yeah. When I go back there I feel the anxiety?

Student: When you go back there you feel the anxiety.

Igor: So, two possibilities here now. Who here feels like they know exactly what’s
going to happen as the next step? Not much. There are a couple possibilities
you have here.

First, you can get a few details of what’s actually going on, to get a sense of
what beliefs and symbols and other experiences are that are involved with
this.

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Second, if you want to be brave and be the more risky, you can go well it’s
obviously going on right now. Can you see her association to the problem? Is
there any doubt in your mind, whether or not she’s plugged into the
problem? Is her problem neurology active? Can you see it? Whatever you do
at this point, which is positive will affect that. That will ultimately affect
whatever comes out of this. Make sense?

The other thing we can do is, we can go straight to how we want to be

different. Do you want to go straight to the outcome? It’s a little riskier, only
because, you have less content to work with but if you’re content to do that
then you can do that too. I’ll leave it entirely up to you, I’m just giving you
your choices? Who wants to be next and has an idea of what to do?

Student: So, Gloria, I know that you really love your daughter don’t you?

Gloria: Yes.

Student: Can you tell me about a moment where you felt very happy with your
daughter?

Igor: Let’s pause a second. You’re going the right direction, using exactly the right
thought. What can we anticipate might be a problem with that exact
question at this exact moment? Any ideas?

Student: It might bring up some grief, if that’s not what she’s experiencing anymore.

Igor: It might bring up some grief and really, the bigger issue is it’s going to be
hard to get a memory when she’s stuck in the problem memory. Remember,
step one is associate the problem. What’s step two?

Student: Dissociate

Igor: That’s what the C part of the PCAT Formula is, it’s the critical factor bypass,
gets her out of this state so she has choice again. In this state she has choice
only within the prison she’s currently in. When you dissociate you basically
have a choice of prison and anything else as well. Make sense?

Student: So, you used to say trance of infinite possibilities.

Igor: The trace of infinite possibilities, I would still say that.

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Student: So we could say something like, can you remember a time when it was
wonderful?

Gloria: Actually, I know a way in here.

Igor: Again, this is what Cathy was doing. How come it just worked? Do you see it
working better this time than last time? Any ideas why?

Student: Because she’s dissociated from it.

Igor: We dissociated by talking about it. It gave her a chance to calm down from
when it was going on, so when you have the exact same question again…

Student: So a better way to dissociate…

Igor: There’s all kinds of things you can do. Shall we get creative and just play with
some dissociations rather than just get a sense of how creative we can get
about this, is that okay?

Student: Yeah. Hmm.

Igor: Do you mind if I do this quickly to show you some examples? Think about the
problem again. It’s not nice right? Would you stand up for me in a second?
Okay, forget about this, sit down again. How do you want to be different?
Done, that’s a physical interruption of the state. Do you see how she’s stood
up, deep breath in. She actually mobilized her resources to get out of the
mini depression that allowed her to actually get up. That’s one example.

What was the problem again?

Student: Um… yeah.

Igor: Okay now we’re already fixing it. Let me make it simple. What’s anything but
that situation? Well, that’s something you want. You have an overall good
relationship with our daughter would that be fair to say?

Gloria: No, not at all, right now.

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Igor: But aside from right now. So in the past it’s been good, but right now it is
not. So putting aside what’s now, what was then?

Student: Then?

Igor: See her pulling herself out of the memory again. That’s also going towards
the resourcing a little bit, because we’re making the distinction between now
and then and also set that off using hand signals to do that. Does that make
sense?

Student: And so, by you saying not now but then…?

Igor: it’s only because she gave me now and then… She gave me those as symbols.

Student: Surely you mentioned daughter, just now you’re shifting…

Igor: She knows exactly what I mean between now and then. She gave it to me.
It’s her relationship in her own mind.

Student: Yeah.

Igor: Again, what’s the problem again at the moment?

Gloria: Well, I’ve basically put her out. She’s in the street basically.

Igor: Okay and of course that’s ugly. Yeah, I could understand that. I understand.
So, what aren’t you thinking about when you’re doing that?

Gloria: What am I not thinking about?

Igor: Yeah.

Gloria: Silence.

Igor: So there you go. Again, did you see the dissociation? That was a pure mind
bending dissociation. It does lead in the direction of a resource, but won’t
necessarily be a resource, it could be neutral, anything faster and some
people have actually said that.

Student: So it’s still working on dissociation.

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Igor: But it’s still a dissociation, so we just got a flat face rather than a happy face, I
don’t care. If they say faster, I go good, we’ll think about faster then. What?
Because they’re being a little facetious when they say that and I’ll take them
literally, faster it is then and then they’ll start laughing, okay you got me, I’m
just messing with you and I’ll mess right back with you. It’s silly.

As you think about the silliness of it all, come back. Of course, there are
beliefs around what’s silly and the seriousness of it may cause some issues,
but we’ll have to see what happens. This is where we have to figure out
which other level is she being stuck on before we can move things along.
Does that make sense to you all?

Students: Yeah.

Igor: Is that enough dissociation examples or do you want something else?

Students: No, that’s good.

Student: I want one more.

Igor: You want one more.

Student: Are you thinking that once we’ve done the dissociation that we won’t need
to dissociate anymore and we can move on to resources?

Igor: Yeah, exactly. This just clears the slate and the classic is now clear your mind,
now think of a resource that works just about as well as overcoming polio by
licking crabs. The point is it can work, but it works within a very specific
context and when people have a real issue that’s not that context.

A better version might be, look I’m sorry, I apologize, we haven’t actually…
can you give me a few minutes before we get started, I’ll be right back. What
just happened?

Student: Dissociated.

Igor: She’s dissociated. She’s pulling herself in. If she goes hmm, hmm, then I’ve
failed with my dissociation. If, on the other hand, I say just fill in this
questionnaire for me. What’s that forcing her to do?

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Student: Dissociate.

Igor: Right, to be able to read and think things through logically and so on. So the
questionnaire itself, I may not actually give it until after she’s given me the
problem, especially if it’s a bigger thing, because again it dissociates, distracts
and takes away from that.

If you want to take risks, you can do meaningful non sequiturs, so blue
whales…, you know what I mean? Would you help me out and tell me what it
is?

Gloria: I actually saw a picture.

Igor: You saw a picture.

Gloria: I tried to maybe…

Igor: Is she more resourceful right now, by the way?

Students: Yes.

Igor: So even the humor within that could work. That was just an extreme version
and there’s some contexts that works. Another context, they’ll ask for their
money back and tell the world you’re really kachee (crazy). Do you get the
sense of what we’re trying to say here? Don’t be limited by your creativity. If
they’re really getting stuck, you can get other things done.

Sometimes they’re really in the problem, in which case you may do a mind
bending regression just because they’re there, in which case, you’re mixing
the formula up a little bit and that’s okay too. You’re just taking the step that
this happens to be there. So all these things, where are we now and what’s
happening and what do you want to do next? What do you reckon?

Student: From what I understood is, you were somewhere emotional and you just
changed the emotion by going everywhere but that.

Igor: Exactly. So we’re now in the dissociation stage. Do you have any idea where
she’s landed?

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Students: No idea. It looks like positive.

Igor: It looks slightly positive, but overall what’s a good thing to do when you’re
not sure?

Student: Check in.

Igor: Right, who wants to check in, anyone? Give it to David. Go ahead and pass it
down.

Student: So now when you think about your…

Igor: That’s not checking in. You’re about to go and fix the problem you’re trying
to detach a resource to, because you’re thinking about being specific.
Checking in is literally…

Student: How are you doing?

Igor: Yeah, how are you doing right now? What’s happening right now? What’s
going on for you? Or even, if you want to go down the route you’re going
down, I just noticed something happened with that blue whale, what was
that? Yeah that, what is that?

Gloria: I can come out sometimes.

Igor: You can come out sometimes. Now, do we have a resource here?

Student: Yes.

Igor: Do we have a symbol?

Student: Yes.

Igor: Take that phrase, come out, can you hear the symbolic qualities of that? So
how far do you need to come out, in order to be the way you want to be with
this?

Gloria: Um…

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Igor: Now we’re at what stage? We’re now getting a resource can you see that?
Come out… was on the positive side of neutral, but given the actual intensity
of the problem, it wasn’t enough to go right back to the problem was it?

Student: No.

Igor: So we’re taking this as a positive neutral and we’ll do a little more of this
which is, a stronger version of positive before we come back. Does that make
sense?

Student: Yes.

Igor: Of course, you can see that this is now working with a layer of state and a
layer of symbolism, but I actually might get a belief out of this as well, I don’t
know yet.

Student: So for her coming out would be like the phrase bright?

Igor: Right.

Student: So you’re going to see now how she reacts to it.

Igor: We’ll see how she reacts. I could be wrong. I don’t think I am, but I could be
wrong and if I am, I’ll find out on the very next thing. Do you see how simple
this is? I don’t need to know where we’re going next. I don’t know where I’m
going to end up, I just need to know what’s happening now or what my next
step is. Shall we see what the answer is?

Students: Yes.

Igor: So how far do you have to come out, in order to be the way you would like to
be?

Gloria: The way I would like to be… is more resourceful, maybe not solving her
problem but in the way I handle it.

Igor: So more resourceful in the way you handle it rather than solving it. Is she
where we need her to be right now? No. This is her intellectualizing about it,
but there’s no great positivity. If you put her problem state and this resource
state in a ring together, who’d win?

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Students: The problem state.

Igor: Yeah. We have a bit of a Tyson going on and we have little Mary and her
lamb in the other corner. She’s nice and it’s okay, but she’s not really the
kind of cavalry we want to have. So we have more of a flat one here, which is
fine. What do you think we could do at this point, any ideas?

Students: Spin her again.

Igor: What do you mean by spinning? What kind of spin are we talking about? Are
we going straight from Mind Bending Language or can we get a little more
subtle with this?

Students: You could get more subtle with it, I don’t know if I could get more subtle with
it.

Igor: You don’t know if you could get more subtle.

Students: What did she say can you just repeat it?

Gloria: I would like to be more resourceful in the way I handle it.

Igor: Now we have a little bit of a better state here. Did you notice how there’s a
bit more conviction in that? So has something grown whilst we’re thinking it?
I suspect her unconscious is taking suggestions rather well. I like this, because
this is important to you. Right?

Student: Could you say at that point, can you recall a time when you’ve been
resourceful…?

Igor: You could absolutely do that. And an even simpler version of that is, assume
it, what’s it like when you are resourceful; just like that? Do you see the
breath coming in now? That’s a sign that she’s already starting to access it.
We don’t know how far it’s going to go, but she’s already heading more in
the right direction do you see it?

Students: Hmm.

Gloria: When I do take it easier and I’m able to get a response that’s more positive…

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Igor: All right, when you get a response that’s more positive about taking it easy
then that’s right. Do you notice what’s happening here?

Students: Reinforcement thoughts. A belief. She’s developing a belief?

Igor: Do you want the mic?

Student: I was going to ask her a question.

Igor: We haven’t finished this one yet. Does everyone see what’s going on here?
Do I have a physical directive?

Students: Yes.

Igor: What’s going on here? What’s this?

Students: Continuing with the resource.

Igor: This is a message from the unconscious. She’s giving it to us straight away.
When she was getting more resourceful she went… what was that again?

Gloria: Easier.

Igor: How do I know? Do you see how much quicker she answered that, by the
way? It’s the difference between, what was it again?

Gloria: Silence.

Igor: Why is she thinking so hard? What was it again?

Gloria: Resourceful.

Igor: How much faster was that? Is there something in this hand?

Gloria: Yes.

Igor: Yes. It’s a personal anchor. Her unconscious gave it to me, so I’m helping her
stabilize the new state. This is the physical part of Mind Bending Language do

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you see that? Do you see how this is working so far? So you want to be easier
is that right?

Gloria: I want to take it easier.

Igor: You want to take it easier. So what’s it like when you are taking it easier?

Gloria: Lighter, funnier, a lot funnier.

Igor: Are these more resources like the ones we want?

Students: Yes.

Igor: Do you see how quickly that shifted? Did any of you expect that in such a
short time we’d get to something like this from where we began, anyone?
You have a lot of faith in me, thank you. Who here thought a little shitty
thing like, how do you deal with this this is a really crappy situation? Of
course, because you believe the bullshit. I’m not being unpleasant about this,
it’s just the way this is.

Do it like that. What do you think should be the next step, any ideas?

Student: Apply the resource to the problem.

Igor: Say what you’re about to say.

Student: Apply the resource to the problem.

Igor: Okay. We’re going in the right direction but at some point we definitely want
to apply the resource to the problem is that right? Is this robust enough yet?
Do you think they would still work?

Students: No.

Igor: So we need to solidify it a little bit. For instance, can you sense a bit of
shakiness about it? It comes and goes a bit too much. But we’re very close
now, much closer than we started aren’t we?

Gloria: Can I answer my own question?

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Igor: Of course you can.

Gloria: I feel like I’m getting a lot out of this as well.

Igor: Well that’s the idea.

Gloria: I was sitting over there and it asked me to go with funnier.

Students: You’re smiling.

Igor: That had the most energy didn’t it? This is great, now you have a client telling
you how to resolve the problem. That’s ideal. It’s exactly what you want.
Take notes and listen. Who has an idea of what to do next? Take risks guys,
this is the time to take risks, because it’s the safe place to do it in. If you wait
until you go home again so no one sees you, well, they didn’t have the
benefit of all this group stuff to help you learn from those things, right?

Student: Maybe, do you remember the last time you actually felt really funny?

Gloria: Not really, but let me try to think.

Igor: So now, do you see how she’s having little issues with that? It’s not just
because it’s too far, there’s two reasons. One, the memory you’re asking for
is too distant from where she is now. And number two you missed the actual
unconscious offer.

Remind me again what you always wanted to be.

Gloria: Funnier.

Igor: So what does funnier mean to you? Why am I asking that question? Because
she’s already thinking of something. What’s that right there?

Gloria: Well, kind of, because I can, believe it or not, be funny.

Igor: I believe it.

Gloria: And they think I am.

Igor: I believe that.

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Gloria: And so, if that’s my first response…

Igor: I sense you’re thinking of something right now where you’ve been really
funny. I have a sense of something is that right?

Gloria: The one thing is my son.

Igor: Your son, go on.

Gloria: This was silly. I loaned him a suitcase. It was an expensive suitcase. He travels
a lot and by the time he brought it back home to me it was all broken up. I
didn’t get mad I just said, you’ve got your nerves and he busted out laughing.
He didn’t even answer me he just kept walking.

Igor: Are we seeing a major resource in the left arm somewhere? How do you
know to do that?

Gloria: I just threw it out.

Igor: You just threw it out. That’s like you were there in the moment and you
didn’t really think about it you just threw it right out.

Gloria: Yeah.

Igor: Do you now have something you can go back with; would you reckon guys?
So as a quick example, as you’re throwing things out go back to the think
about your daughter and see what happens? Do you see something to throw
out there?

Gloria: I can work with it.

Igor: You can work with it, so we have a change but it’s only a softening. Do you
see how the outer shell is eroding? We’re far from done yet. So we have a
slight victory, but not the dramatic Moses coming down from the mountain
scenario. We don’t have that dramatic moment, but we are chipping away,
chipping away.

Student: It’s good progress.

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Igor: Not bad for 20 minutes right? And I included lots of chit-chat in between.
How are we doing as a group?

Students: Good.

Igor: Do you have something?

Student: I have a question.

Igor: You want to know how to ask a question, bring the mic back, hand it over.

Student: Could you use the throwing out with the coming out from earlier?

Igor: I think they’re very related. Right now remember, it doesn’t matter which
maneuvers we’re going for, we’re just combining and collecting things and as
they combine you’ll see the momentum starting to build. We build a little bit
of momentum, we brought it back. It had some effect. Now we’re
somewhere else and the momentum has slowed down a little bit, so we now
have to build momentum up again.

It doesn’t matter it’s just where we are. Anyone here feel bad about where
we are?

Students: No.

Igor: Nor should you. We’ve actually made some good transition so far.

Student: Should we still dissociate before going forward?

Igor: Well, let’s find out what do you reckon? How is she reacting to the problem
right now?

Students: Much better. She’s good.

Igor: So what do you reckon, does it need dissociation?

Students: No.

Igor: We can always find out. Where is she right now?

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Students: How are you feeling?

Igor: That’s a classic one. How are you feeling right now?

Gloria: Well, I think I’m getting into it, but I see where there are two of these where
I’m stuck. One has to do with the way I relate to my parents. There’s a
generation, she’s 18 and I’m 58, so from her perspective I think she thinks it’s
okay to bring her boyfriend to move in. We don’t do that, in our country
especially.

Igor: Of course.

Gloria: So that’s there and then there are a couple other beliefs, like I want to be
open, I don’t know if I can on camera but they’re smoking weed in my house.
I just bought a brand new house a month ago.

Igor: So there’s extra drama.

Gloria: So there’s generational stuff.

Igor: Of course. Okay, so now we have more information did you notice this? So it
doesn’t matter, now we have more stuff to fix. There’s more symbolism
there. There’s more relationship issues. There’s more beliefs there. There’s
more emotions there. That’s good, because if you only got stuck on the one
issue, there is no information there to work with. When someone’s child is
stuck in the streets it’s a crappy situation. What are you going to work with?

Now we start seeing more of what’s going on around it, we have different
places where resources can work and that can change the whole dynamic,
the whole thing that’s going on. Does that make sense? So, who wants to
take the next step or who has an idea of what to do next? Who wants to ask
a question or make comment?

Student: I mean, you talk about being funnier and I’m just curious, how does being
funnier relate to this inter-generational gap you have with your daughter?

Igor: Nice.

Gloria: That would be nice, I don’t know. When I’m natural.

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Igor: Why does she not know?

Student: She’s still stuck in the problem.

Igor: Because the funnier wasn’t active when you asked the question.

Student: I tried to activate it with the agreement.

Igor: Of course, but did you see going into funny? That’s why at that point you go,
your idea was perfect. Do you want to see a little example of how that might
work?

Students: Yeah.

Igor: So, there’s something about that inter-generational thing right?

Gloria: Yeah.

Igor: There’s something about being funny and that might have something to do
with it am I correct? What was that? Yeah that?

Gloria: I don’t know. She thinks I’m adorable.

Igor: She thinks you’re adorable.

Gloria: I am adorable. I don’t know.

Igor: So how does adorable relate to funny?

Gloria: Well, that’s how you make funny, adorable or whatever.

Igor: How do you feel when you are like that?

Gloria: Good. But I can’t always be like that.

Igor: No one can always be like that. So do you see this going back down? How is it
when you are like that?

Gloria: It’s good. I feel like I’m more resourceful.

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Igor: How do you know?

Gloria: Um…

Igor: Do you see where we’re slowly building it up?

Students: Hmm.

Igor: Because she still has the… she’s trying to reply prematurely to the problem,
she keeps saying I can’t always, because of course, she can’t, that’s why it’s
not there yet. So we’re just reminding her over and over and over about the
resource. So how do you know when you are being funny?

Gloria: We all laugh.

Igor: You all laugh.

Gloria: Yes.

Igor: Are you seeing the resource coming back again? Is it where we want it to be
yet?

Student: Not yet.

Igor: Not yet. It’s getting there, but it’s not stable enough. It’s not strong enough.

Student: Where are you Gloria that is funny? Any time but then.

Igor: Try that again. You’re not quite in the right place. Now, say exactly the same
thing again only pause and then the second bit from that is funny, make that
more of an instruction than a question.

Student: When are you, Gloria, that is funny?

Igor: Come back and try that last one again? Do you want me to give you an
example of what I mean? When are you Gloria, that’s funny, right now? And
there it is?

Students: [Laughter]

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Igor: Do you see the instruction? It’s just an embedded command at that point. It’s
embedded within the Mind Bending Language, but notice how it’s not
random anymore. We’re not just throwing the language out we’re
transferring meaning. Does that help?

Student: Yes.

Igor: Are you having fun with this?

Students: Yes.

Gloria: I’m having a little fun.

Igor: You’re having a little fun.

Student: It’s fun because you’re here, if I was by myself I’d be a little scared.

Igor: Well, because this is a bigger issue that’s the only reason. So fight the little
people first and then go to the big person. Just have fun with this. Do this in
everyday conversations, have a little bit of fun, this is why we do the
investigation phase because are we really solving something or are we just
investigating?

Students: Investigating.

Igor: So you said you’re having a little fun right now. How do you do that?

Gloria: I go there.

Igor: You go where?

Gloria: To the fun place.

Igor: To the fun place. Where is it?

Gloria: Over here.

Igor: It’s over here somewhere? Is it close or a little further?

Gloria: That’s a little further out.

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Igor: Is it over here?

Gloria: No, like here.

Igor: Oh it’s over here, I’m too far out. Is that close enough to have fun?

Gloria: Hmm.

Igor: Or is it more fun in here?

Gloria: Yeah, it’s more fun here.

Igor: It’s more fun here. What about here?

Gloria: A little fun but not as fun.

Igor: Oh it’s not as fun. So this is the optimal fun place right there?

Gloria: Yeah.

Igor: Okay. Good. So now we have an anchor as well. So don’t have too much fun
right now, just a normal expression. But then, of course, who can get in?
Who can only have this much fun to the extent that you really want to
resolve whatever that was? You know that’s what it takes doesn’t it?

Gloria: Yeah.

Igor: Contain yourself. Do you see how playful this is? This is a suggestion, by the
way, right here. Who wants to do the next one? Where are we? What other
kinds of ideas do we have? Do you find these useful overall?

Student: Yeah.

Igor: You’ve seen this; we’ve talked about it in action a little more. Is this helping
you demystifying the maneuvers? We’re working at quite a high level. This is
a much bigger issue, but this hopefully brings everything into their practical
reality. That’s actually ok if you struggle, because that gives you something
think about how to apply these things and that’s where you start becoming
good. Struggle is not a bad thing it’s a useful thing. It just shows you where

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the edge of your map is and where you need to grow a little bit. That’s what
we’re here for. Does that make sense?

Student: Yes.

Igor: Do you want to pass the mic forward?

Student: When she started asking us about the, saying she wanted to be more
resourceful and then she went on…

Igor: Which is a high level abstraction.

Student: Exactly. Then, you went into talking about being fun. Would it be a nice time
to relate resourcefulness and fun together?

Igor: You could but you don’t need to, because resourceful, fun is really what she’s
talking about when she was talking about resourceful. Remember we talked
about how, you know you have the experience. Then you have the symbol.
Then you have the belief. Resourcefulness is the high level abstraction that’s
kind of beyond the belief. It’s the category. Fun is actually the experience.

This is actually the label for the experience, the symbol and then she’ll have
lots of memories of having fun, which are the ones that actually show up as
having fun, whatever having fun means. Then you can do all kinds of things.

Gloria: Yeah, laughing. And we used to dance.

Igor: Who’s we?

Gloria: My daughter and I.

Igor: So you and your daughter were dancing.

Gloria: Every day.

Igor: Every day, wonderful, when was this?

Gloria: When we lived in Columbia.

Igor: So you lived in Columbia. Give me an example, what this a typical day?

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Gloria: Every afternoon.

Igor: So what would it be then, Tuesday, Wednesday, think of one.

Gloria: Sunday through Sunday.

Igor: So Sunday through Sunday, how long ago would that have been?

Gloria: Seven to twelve.

Igor: So about five years ago?

Gloria: She’s now 18 so, six.

Igor: So about six years ago you were in Columbia and how does this whole thing
unroll? Where are we right now? We’re in revivification. Have you guys
appreciated just how clever her unconscious mind is? Did you notice what
the unconscious mind just did there? Did anyone spot anything?

Student: It brought the resource forward.

Igor: It wasn’t just a resource. There’s a very special kind of fun. Was the general,
classic resource and the unconscious did a specific version of that, but who’s
she having fun with?

Students: Her daughter.

Igor: Do you see how she’s actually already unconscious as we’re teaching her
how to solve that problem. She’s not having fun with any old person, she’s
got a memory of having fun with her daughter, which is exactly what she
wants to do again. Now, we could go down that road and do the
revivification, but do you want to another branch we could take instead?

Students: Yes.

Igor: It will give you a variety. What’s it like knowing that you can have fun with
your daughter? Now, do you see how that lights up?

Gloria: Uh?

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Igor: Go ahead.

Gloria: Well, I was going to say I’m not there yet.

Igor: Do you believe her? Her unconscious mind is there. Who’s blocked the
conscious or the unconscious?

Students: The conscious.

Igor: The conscious, so now we know that she’s stuck on a belief. The unconscious
mind has an idea of some sort, because the unconscious mind’s already
doing the experience. The unconscious mind is ready to resolve this, but
who’s hanging on?

Students: The conscious mind.

Igor: The conscious mind. Do we have that nice confession, you see that very clear
head nod? So what are you believing that’s not letting you be there yet?

Gloria: Hmm…

Igor: There we go, now we’re getting to pay dirt do you feel it?

Students: Hmm.

Gloria: I feel like there’s a side of me, I kind of want to be right. I want to have
conviction, and stick to my guns kind of thing.

Igor: Now we’ve got it. Of course you do. What’s the other side feel?

Gloria: The other side of that?

Students: Wow!

Igor: There…

Gloria: Coming to mind, although I don’t know if this is true, maybe another parent.
That just popped in my head.

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Igor: Okay.

Gloria: To go along with all this crap, so I can stand my ground.

Igor: That’s the part there. It sounds like the same thing, stand your ground or not
allow the crap, how is that not the same thing?

Gloria: I mean go along with it.

Igor: Oh, I see.

Gloria: Would I be that bad of a parent if I allowed myself to have fun?

Igor: Do you see the belief? What we’re seeing here, does anyone know
something basic from the CHPH that actually fits this model, any ideas?

Student: Part integration.

Igor: Right. This is a classic parts conflict, really classic. If you wanted to do it, you
could literally do this at this point. The Mind Bending Language has done its
work; it’s got you to the position where this will work. Do you see how the
CHPH has been put together? You don’t actually have to do a linguistic parts
integration too, that’s a lot of fun.

Student: How would we do it?

Igor: Well, let’s take a question first and if it doesn’t relate to that then I’ll happily
show you.

Barbara: I was going to go a little bit different direction. When you and your daughter
are having fun together. When they’re thinking that you’re adorable, do they
show you respect?

Gloria: I guess you could call it respect. Maybe my definition of respect is different.
They think I’m adorable when I’m funny.

Barbara: How do they treat you when you’re funny?

Gloria: I like it.

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Igor: Let’s pause there. You’re going in the right direction. You’re actually trying to
do the parts integration.

Barbara: I tried to get back to the generational thing, which I think is a thing of
respect.

Igor: Of course it is, but that’s also part of the parts conflict. The parts conflict is,
I’ve been right versus going along with it. Are those the only two choices she
has, by the way?

Students: No.

Igor: Right. But the world is only existing in the sense of going along with it or
being right. What’s going to happen?

Student: The problem.

Igor: Are these the only two choices she’s got guys? It’s going to get stuck, which is
what’s going on here. The generational thing will fit into this, but we’ve
found the bit that’s actually keeping her stuck and from being the kind of
person she needs to be to be resourceful enough to fix this and, be totally
respected.

Gloria: Yeah. I can’t get that yet.

Igor: No, so what happens?

Gloria: I still feel like stuck between the two…

Igor: Of course you do, so what is it you’re feeling?

Gloria: That I wouldn’t be respected if I went along with…

Igor: So what would it be like to be respected whilst having fun?

Gloria: Interesting.

Igor: Now it’s beginning, do you see it?

Students: Yes.

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Igor: So the question I have in mind is, what kind of fun would you need to have to
get their respect? Now we’re in brand new territory, do you see it?

Students: Yes.

Igor: Now she’s doing the real work and this is where you were heading with this.

Barbara: Right. And what about being a parent, a good parent?

Igor: Not yet. Let’s not over think it. Let’s let her land somewhere first, but you’re
on the right track. Remember we’re trying to push her on the swing rather
than off the swing. So we have to figure out what’s happening with the
momentum first, before we take the next step. So you’re thinking quite right,
but we don’t want to be too much in a hurry. We want to make sure this
works at her pace rather than ours. Get the idea?

Barbara: Hmm.

Igor: Is this useful?

Students: Yes.

Igor: Are you enjoying this?

Students: Yes.

Gloria: What’s the question?

Igor: There’s no question right now. Where are we right now? What do we need
to do at this point?

Students: It’s too big.

Igor: Not quite. Do we know what’s going on with her?

Students: Check in.

Igor: So we need to check in, right? Who would like to check in, anyone? This is
the easy part, you just say, what’s going on right now? What’s happening?

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This is the bit that you should be jumping at because you can do this. Let’s
take someone who’s had no interaction yet and give you something to do
with this. Who wants to do this? I’m thinking about you guys. Yeah, why not.
It’s a real simple question, what’s happening now?

Student: What’s happening right now?

Igor: How do you feel asking her that? It’s weird isn’t it, you know the question is
simple, but you’ve now just called the unconscious mind by taking part.
Thank you very much, have a nice day.

Gloria: I’m feeling slightly confused.

Igor: You’re feeling slightly confused. Was there something else there as well?

Gloria: No.

Igor: So you’re just slightly confused.

Gloria: Yeah.

Igor: So now we have our new launch pad right? What can we do with slightly
confused? Which one of these is slightly confused?

Student: Neutral.

Igor: Right. And there’s a slight edge of positive, because we haven’t been there,
it’s just because we talk about it so much it kind of slid back. So really, the
collapse is happening, but she’s not fully there yet, correct?

Students: Yes.

Igor: So, what do you reckon could be done next, any ideas?

Student: Spin her.

Igor: You can spin her, which is a way of changing the attention.

Student: What’s clear about being confused?

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Igor: Strategically speaking, why would you ask something like, what’s clear about
being confused? Are you looking for clarity? Is clarity what she needs right
now?

Students: No.

Igor: What’s her resource?

Students: What’s funny about being confused?

Igor: So how much fun can you have being confused? It’s your question, but we’re
actually using her resource rather than yours. With may need clarity, she
needs fun. Do you see the difference?

Students: Yes.

Igor: So what’s fun about being confused?

Gloria: A lot. I can have fun and be confused

Igor: How?

Gloria: Not making a big deal out of it, I’m just confused rather than oh, I’m so
confused.

Igor: Are you?

Gloria: Not yet.

Igor: How do we know this? Because she’s made the comment, she’s talked about
it. Her body’s not signaling it. You get the idea? So, where are you now?
Having more fun?

Gloria: No.

Igor: Oh, so what’s happening?

Gloria: Nothing.

Igor: Nothing?

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Gloria: I still feel slightly confused. I don’t feel the confusion in my body now.

Igor: You don’t feel the confusion in your body or the fun?

Gloria: None of it.

Igor: You feel nothing in your body?

Gloria: Yea, a little something.

Igor: A little something. What is the little something?

Gloria: A little anxiety.

Igor: A little anxiety. You seem to be okay with it.

Gloria: Yeah.

Igor: So are you having fun with the anxiety is that what you’re saying? So what is
it, because you were smiling and laughing whilst talking about the anxiety,
I’m a little confused now?

Gloria: You were making fun of it.

Igor: I was making fun of it. Were you enjoying it?

Gloria: Hmm.

Igor: So you’re having fun, even though you’re a little anxious?

Gloria: Right.

Igor: Oh, so you can be anxious and still have fun is that what you’re saying?

Gloria: If I started into fun…

Igor: Yeah, so how anxious are you to have fun when your daughter is facing a
serious issue?

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Gloria: Um, yeah. I just want to know how to do that.

Igor: Notice how we’re slowly again, getting to the issue. What’s happening right
now?

Gloria: Still a little anxious.

Igor: Okay, what happened to the fun?

Gloria: No fun.

Igor: No fun.

Gloria: Giggle.

Igor: What was that, it seems like you’re having fun now?

Gloria: Well, you make it fun.

Igor: I’m making you do stuff, I’m sitting inside there pulling the fun strings?

Gloria: Yeah.

Igor: Okay, let me pull a little harder. What’s happening now? Are you having
more fun?

Gloria: Yeah.

Igor: How did you do that? How did that happen? How much more fun can you
have now?

Gloria: Yeah.

Igor: There, what just happened? What are you thinking of as that happened?

Gloria: Fun.

Igor: Describe it. This is very abstract, you see?

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Gloria: Ah, actually I was looking for a place, like for some reason I kind of looked up
and out.

Igor: So you looked up and what did you see when you looked out?

Gloria: I think I was searching.

Igor: Oh, you had to come out to search for more fun, is that what you’re saying?

Gloria: I went internally. I started to process it.

Igor: Oh, so you’re saying you need more time to process it so you can come out
with fun?

Gloria: Maybe that was the wrong choice of words. I was not feeling it. I was
thinking it.

Igor: Thinking it, okay.

Gloria: I was thinking fun, so I started to search for it.

Igor: Okay. Did you find any?

Gloria: Now yeah.

Igor: Oh, now you’ve found something. What’s that?

Gloria: Funnier.

Igor: Is it a memory or just a feeling or just having fun now?

Gloria: Just fun now.

Igor: So, having fun now. What kind of fun?

Gloria: Just funnier, like lighter.

Igor: Lighter, there’s another one of those.

Gloria: It’s not heavy.

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Igor: Okay, so it’s not heavy it’s getting lighter. Is it lightening up further?

Gloria: A little bit, yeah.

Igor: So how much effort don’t you have to make for it to be fun enough to be
light?

Gloria: Silence

Igor: Yeah like that.

Gloria: I can work on that.

Igor: Yeah, like that what is that? How do you do that? That, exactly… that. Don’t
sneak out of that one because that’s the one we’re interested in.

Gloria: Okay yeah. I can see myself working on that.

Igor: You can see yourself working on that. It doesn’t sound like a lot of fun.

Gloria: If I allow it to be lighter than yeah.

Igor: How do you allow something to be lighter?

Gloria: Sigh.

Igor: There, now we’ve got it. What was that? Pause a second, what was that?
What happened to your body just then?

Gloria: I took a breath.

Igor: And how did your body feel when you took that breath?

Gloria: A little bit of relief.

Igor: So close your eyes for a second and notice that relief. Really notice that
relief. Breathe. What am I doing right now guys?

Student: Helping her land.

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Igor: Yeah, because she’s spending a lot of time skipping past the good moments
and there’s a negativity bias, which means the body will store into long-term
memory negative events very quickly, but positive events take 10-20 seconds
to encode. You want to sit here for at least 20 seconds, for it to have a
chance to encode. How’s that doing, that relief?

Gloria: Yeah.

Igor: Was it worth spending time on?

Gloria: Hmm.

Igor: How much time can you spend on having more relief?

Gloria: A lot.

Igor: What just came in there when you’re thinking about that, was that a little fun
I detected in your voice?

Gloria: Yes.

Igor: Was it just a question of giving yourself time, to have fun and get relief?

Gloria: Yes.

Igor: So really, it’s not about being in a rush it’s about having time enough to
resolve this with some fun, so you can all feel relief is that what you’re
saying?

Gloria: Yeah.

Igor: Do you feel a new process developing?

Students: Yeah.

Igor: Let me just ask you a question just because of timing reasons here. How are
you doing right now?

Gloria: Better.

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Igor: A lot better. Do you feel it? Where do you feel it?

Gloria: Right here.

Igor: It feels like a light here? Can you give yourself time to explore that and see
how that helps you to change things a bit, because here’s the thing? You
don’t want to change it all at once, you’ve tried that approach haven’t you?
So, can you give yourself time to lighten up enough to have some fun and
feel more relief when the time comes?

Gloria: Yeah. I do worry that there is no time.

Igor: Of course you worry about that. See how we’re slipping back to the other
side? Now we have the next part of the loop, which is the time pressure loop.
Do you see how that works? So how is not giving yourself enough time work
for you so far? Have you managed to force yourself to have more fun or feel
relief?

Gloria: No.

Igor: Has that worked?

Gloria: No.

Igor: So really, by not giving yourself time, you’ve ensured you don’t have it.

Gloria: Right.

Igor: So maybe if you reversed it can you give yourself enough time to actually
have it?

Gloria: Yes.

Igor: How does that feel?

Gloria: In a way, better.

Igor: In a way, better. In what way?

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Gloria: When I think about giving myself the time, I feel better. But then, of course,
there’s a…

Igor: Of course there’s a but.

Gloria: Yes.

Igor: Well, we’re not asking about resolving this yet, we’re asking about you first,
because you can’t fix anything until you’re in a place where that can fix it
right?

Gloria: Okay, yeah. I got it.

Igor: Do you see what I mean?

Gloria: I got it.

Igor: So, can you take enough time so that fixing it becomes as fast as possible?

Gloria: Yeah. Interesting.

Igor: Oh, now it’s interesting. Just sit with that for a little bit. How much time do
you need to give yourself so you can fix that as fast as possible? Because to
push a child on a swing you can’t go any faster than the child is going,
otherwise you push them off the swing. So sometimes it takes time doesn’t
it?

Gloria: Yeah.

Igor: So how much time can you give yourself so that you can speed up the
resolution? As you think of it like that, is this a good place that you can pause
for the time being?

Gloria: Hmm.

Igor: How are you doing now?

Gloria: Better.

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Igor: Do you want to say anything to the group, in general, in terms of what’s
going on here for you, in terms of the process? You don’t have to, it’s just in
reference to your experience because I’m sure they are curious.

Gloria: I feel a lot lighter about it. Of course, I’m in a hurry to…

Igor: Of course you are.

Gloria: … find a solution. But at the same time I’m not because I’m holding on to my
stand.

Igor: Of course. Right.

Gloria: I feel the relief.

Igor: Feel the relief. And when you have enough relief, can you find another
position that somewhere between holding onto your stand, which has
something important there, and having enough fun to resolve this so it
resolves more quickly, because that’s really what you want at the end isn’t it,
to resolve things? So when you are resolving things how does that feel?
There you go.

Gloria: Sigh.

Igor: And when you feel that, can you only stand your ground on those things that
are important enough to stand, so you can give with the others enough to
have fun? What happens when you think about that?

Gloria: A little bit like… it hasn’t sunken in yet.

Igor: It is new. So you just need time is that what you’re saying?

Gloria: Yes.

Igor: So you need time enough to let that sink in. Would that be a relief?

Gloria: Hmm. Oh yeah.

Igor: So is this a good place for us to pause?

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Gloria: Oh yeah, I’m definitely a lot better.

Igor: There you go. That, that’s what you need to do. Of course, we’re not finished
yet right, but the session has timed out. Would you like to see a little
something you can do if something like this ever happens in your session and
you have to do something else?

Close your eyes for a second and really consider all the progress you’ve made
so far. Do you feel like you made some progress worth making? And you had
no idea you’d get to this point did you? It took some time. So take a little
longer to experience the relief that comes with knowing that you’ve made
progress. Now, your unconscious mind has really done some interesting
things for you, in terms of having fun and feeling relief, but also paying
attention to the things that are important about keeping your position and
respecting it.

There are some things that are right about that, and some things that aren’t
worth being right about that, and you can only tell a difference when you
have enough fun (there you go) to allow the moment to teach you who you
can be next, so that you can help resolve this as fast as possible. So, I’m not
going to suggest to your unconscious mind that you continue to work on this
as you dream and sleep. I’m not going to suggest that you have strange
dreams that you really won’t understand. I won’t even suggest that you
might have a dream that you wake up from and want to go, what the hell
kind of dream was that?

Of course, it does happen sometimes that people laugh so hard when they
dream that they wake themselves up. If that happens to you, then you will
know it had nothing to do with what’s going on here, it’s just one of those
weird dreams. Because everyone does dream, every night you dream and
you don’t know what’s going to come in your dream, but dreams are a place
in which the unconscious gets to do things that are important to you. So I
know, that tonight you’ll dream, tomorrow night you’ll dream and the night
after you’ll dream and in dreams you have nothing but time, nothing but
time because you don’t keep track of time in your dreams.

So, I’m not going to suggest your unconscious mind use that time for you to
learn, really learn to take the time to have fun and to only stick to those
things that are important enough to maintain, so you can resolve or let go of
those things that are standing in the way of you to help resolve things.

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Because if that happened, well then, you’d help resolve the situation in no
time. Of course, the deeper you sleep, you have no idea what you’re
dreaming about, the less your conscious mind can interfere. All you have to
do is wake up in the morning and take a deep breath, and have a sense of
relief and not know why.

There are so many dreams you can have, so many situations, so many
symbols, so many feelings, so many activities and far be it from me to
suggest that your unconscious mind rehearse, one reality after another, until
it finds the right balance between standing your ground and having fun.
Because the way you stood your ground hasn’t worked and the way you’ve
wanted to have fun hasn’t worked either. So somewhere in between there is
a new place between fun and being right. It’s the right kind of fun.

That’s going to take some searching for. I have no idea why I say that, you
don’t have to have any idea why I said that, all you have to do is sit there and
feel a sense of relief and you do, do you not?

Gloria: Hmm.

Igor: Maybe a sense of looking forward to, what might happen, What the next few
days might bring? There you go, and with that thought in mind, only bring
yourself back to the room as slowly as you give yourself time to feel relief, so
that your unconscious mind can do what it needs to in the back of your mind,
in a place that Gloria will never find till it’s too late, because then she’ll have
all the resources she needs, to resolve this in a timely manner. Now.

As Gloria’s finishing up, are there any questions or comments? No?

How are you doing? We’re not done, but can you see this is a nice way to
hold the pattern?

Students: Yeah.

Igor: Well, give her a nice round of applause.

[Applause]

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Demo Debrief And Closing

Igor: By the way, notice how we need to kind of get out of our session to fix
everything in one session, because sometimes time is just not on your side.
But you can do what you can with the time you do have, and that’s when
time weirdly becomes less important, because some things are too important
to rush.

Questions or comments before we finish up?

Student: I noticed you made some… when you did the first one earlier today, gosh you
made it look so easy. It’s like watching someone who really knows what
they’re doing and you go oh that’s easy. So you have to make the same
choices and where I was absolutely stuck, you made some critical turns that
made the difference that was really, at this point, over my paygrade.

Igor: All that is really, is experience. This was actually quite a big issue, so you
actually bit off quite a large chunk and I warned you about this. A small issue
would be so much easier; you would have resolved that in next to no time.

Did you see all these maneuvers?

Students: Sure. Yes.

Igor: That’s the main thing. Did you see within that, the four basic realities coming
out in different shapes in the problem, things she was feeling, things she
thought about, the belief, the conflict, the parts conflict was actually at the
level of a belief, the symbolism that came with it, the physiology, and
gestures that were a part of what’s going on there? So, we have lots of places
you can come into, and all your maneuvers about this were actually
appropriate and right, it’s just they needed a little tweaking because you’re
doing them for you, the clarity/confusion one. That’s where you wanted to
go, but you needed to go where she is, which is the fun and confusion.

Get the idea. Keep it simple and have fun. If you do this just with your friends
to explore… remember when you went through Mind Bending Language
Mastery, it’s all about questions. It’s about being curious about the
experience.

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I’m going to give you one last tip, which will make this a lot easier for you
while you do all these questions. Two styles of questioning…

What’s going on now?

Student: Not much.

Igor: Style number one.

Style number two, so what’s going on now?

Do you see the reaction? He’s going to mirror my status to a degree, so when
you’re doing this, if you start feeling a little panicked, this is not working,
they’re going to respond to that. As long as you’re actually lighthearted
about it and having fun, weirdly, something will come out at some point and
initially, going back to the cat phobia thing… you’re going to throw
everything you can possibly think of at the wall, and none of it will stick but
enough will stick that it will crudely get there. At the end of it you’re a genius
and you think, I barely survived.

Do you know what? You have your delusions and I’ll keep mine. However,
over time, those experiences become more concrete and the strategy stuff
starts coming out, and that’s what we spent today talking about. What is that
strategy? You have to be willing to make those mistakes, because it’s not
going to happen just like that. You’re not going to be instantly the way you
want to be, because the way you want to be is the reason you’re not.

When you get to the place you think you want to be, you’ll actually be
beyond that and you look back at what you think right now is the way you
want to be and you’ll realize, that’s what was keeping you stuck. So stop it.
Smile. And find out, just ask a few question with a smile on your face. This bit
is really important. Not just the one on your face either, you’re crying inside
of it, that’s not what I’m talking about. Enjoy the process.

Can you get curious about people? That’s all it takes and then your
unconscious will start connecting these themes, because here’s the thing,
you have an unconscious mind too and your unconscious mind knows its own
logic and it’s solved a million problems in your life, so once you get out of the
way enough, when you’re serious your conscious mind damps down all the

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 Mind Bending Language Round Table – Module 7 - Transcript

other conscious responses and all the stuff that could make it easy for you is
gone.

But when you have fun and you don’t care about the outcome, you care
more about exploration, you open possibilities and a question you ask or an
idea you explore, not because you want to resolve the problem, just because
you are curious. Do you understand the difference?

Students: Yes.

Igor: Not because you want to resolve the problem, just be curious. That’s the bit
where your unconscious mind is nudging you like the blind man down the
street, for it to become effortless. And only once it’s been effortless for you
long enough, will you suddenly realize that it is and you’ll understand what
you’re doing. But here’s the funny part. It’ll be effortless at first and then
you’ll understand. If you’re looking for understanding first, you won’t get
there and that’s why you haven’t.

So, are you willing to let go of your need to resolve the problem, in order
that you can do it more quickly? Is that an agreement we can make?

Students: Yes.

Igor: In that case my job is done. I want to thank you all.

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