transcrição

Interview:

Architect, M. Arch. in Architecture and Sustainable City,

M.Sc. in Education, PhD candidate in Architecture (University of
Seville), [email protected]

odernity could be explained through the process for many centuries. However, the extraordinary
of subordination of space to time. The Cartesian advance in sciences –especially from the sixteenth
division between res extensa and res cogitans already century on- heavily influenced the perspectives
established the differentiation of two independent of spatial knowledge: the arrival of Europeans
realms that would be associated to space and time into the American continent and the process of
respectively. Thus, the interior –identified with “desacralization” started by Galileo (Foucault 1998,
1 The original lecture was the subject who thinks- would gradually become 176)1 initiated an extensive conception of space
given in 1967, at the Cer-
cle d’études architecturales.
“time”. In his Philosophy of Nature (2004), Hegel that would progressively become dominant in all
It was entitled devotes a section to the category of space, defining fields. Formed space would be substituted by its
.
it as “abstract objectivity”, in opposition to time, counterpart, anti-space.
which is presented as the primitive, least developed
appearance of nature that eventually becomes The influence of this new spatial perception would be
time through motion and thus is liberated from its adopted much later by architects. Once architecture
“paralysis” and indifference (Brann 1999, 26). In enters the political discourse –roughly at the end of
this regard, space appears as pure exteriority, only the eighteenth century, in the wake of the French
measurable and graspable by means of (inner) Revolution-, space is no longer regarded as a passive,
reason, which is the only certainty the modern indifferent milieu, but starts to be conceived as an active
subject could trust. element that can be -intentionally or subconsciously-
transformed, arranged and manipulated not only to
Thus, it is not surprising to find that the approximation produce sensations and meanings, but also to embody
of Hegel to space is mainly geometrical, recovering the socio-political project of modernist architecture
some aspects already observed in ancient Greece, and during the first decades of the twentieth century for
of course by Descartes and Kant. Space is conceived an egalitarian, progressive society. Thus, anti-space
as pure extension that finds its negation in the point, becomes a privileged realm to apply the new principles
concrete and determinate (Hegel 2004, §256, 31). In of modern architecture. Nonetheless, this generalized
fact, as Emmánuel Lizcano (2011, 31) notes, certain vision would change during the last decades of the
schools of thought had already posited geometry as twentieth century, when the so-called “spatial turn”
a system “against space”, that is, as an instrument in social sciences and the crisis of modern urbanism
to control and measure it by determining delimited transformed the conception of space and the ways
surfaces that could avoid a complete dissolution. of exploring it.
This oppositional conception of space would have
2 An updated reissue of the a remarkable influence in the theory and practice Peterson’s “Space and Anti-space” (1980) 2
article can be found on the
of architecture, understood as the discipline of the represents a seminal contribution to the issue of
author’s web site <peterson
littenberg.com> limitation and framing of spaces and graphically negativity in spatial terms. Influenced by Colin Rowe
represented by sequences of fills and voids (poché) and his contextualist critique of Modernism, he

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 Revisiting anti-space. Interview with Steven K. Peterson.

addresses the qualification of space in architecture diverse experiences. Besides, the text leads us to think
and urbanism before and during the period of the about the social project of (modern) architecture, its
Modern Movement. The modern project, following current status and its eventual overcoming.
values of fluidity, openness and democracy, would
liberate space from hierarchical constraints to give MLM The first paragraph of the article is illustrated
3 In the book Manière univer- way to what Peterson calls “anti-space”, which is with Abraham Bosse’s “Perspecteurs (1648), 3
selle de M. Desargues, pour
continuous, dynamic, flowing, uniform and unformed the perception of space as volume, integral with
pratiquer la perspective par
petit-pied, comme le géo- and, according to the author, may have “disastrous” geometry and form”, although it is a tool that
métral, ensemble les places
effects, as it would lead to pure fragmentation and progressively lost its relevance and reliability and,
et proportions des fortes
et foibles touches, teintes relativism under a promise of freedom and a new as it is stated in the text, its decline coincides
ou couleurs. (1648) <http://
order. As matter and anti-matter, both conceptions with a shift in the conception of space (and the
gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bt-
v1b8612037g/f1.image> are antithetical. However, Peterson proposes a way appearance of anti-space). However, central
in which space and anti-space can be articulated European architecture theoreticians and art
by recovering the concept of negative space -the historians (Semper, Schmarsow, Auer…) would
Abraham Bosse, Les “void in-between” perceived spaces- in an almost start recognizing space as the main object of
Perspecteurs, 1648. Manière
universelle de M. Desargues
dialectical manner. architecture during the nineteenth century, much
(1648). Alberto Pérez-Gómez after it had been theoretically liberated of its
in “The revelation of order”
wrote that this image affect-
Through this interview we explore the connections identification with form and geometry (Copernican
ingly carries the acceptance in between space and negativity, as well as revisiting turn). Space began to be regarded as a dynamic
the power of perspective as
a universal method to shape
Peterson’s thesis in the 80s and discussing their force object of study, not as a “dead” a priori or un-
and construct the world and today, when architecture, as a decentered discipline, dialectical element, as Moravanzski (2003) says,
not simply to represent it.
Furthermore, every person
does not possess the primacy over space anymore, but in opposition to time. To what extent is it due to
innately retains this power. produces it together with other disciplines and through reasons that lie outside architecture as a discipline

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 Revisiting anti-space. Interview with Steven K. Peterson.

–revolutionary discourse, romanticism, etc.? What It is not a zero sum game. There is no transition
are the exchanges/ transfers that make possible a from space to anti-space. They both exist conceptually
transition to an architecture interested about space? and perceptively after the Roman period. One,
the endless is bound to our ideas of the natural
My own view is that space as a perceptual background, the other to a conscious deliberate act
architectural element was invented by the Romans of willful manipulation. Unfortunately, it is this very
as a result of the plasticity of concrete vaulting attitude toward a history of progressive development
and the consequent bending of the walls below that is problematic. This historicist process is a bias
domes. A positive volume of emptiness resulted and of thought that insists that the presence of the most
then this was explored though Roman ingenuity. contemporarily apparent phenomena is true and
See, for example, the small bath at Hadrian’s villa sequentially latest thing has to eliminate the “older.”
for a complex almost free style arrangement. The
Romans also invented the first pictorial space of MLM The relation between space and anti-space
depth as witnessed in Pompeian wall paintings. All emerges as an analogy of matter and anti-matter.
this before the geometrical ordering of perspective Both realms are possible, although they cannot
in Brunelleschi’s reinvention of it. coexist (“Any coincident meeting of the two worlds
will cause their mutual obliteration.”) Scientific
Prior to this neither architecture nor painting, as knowledge has been an essential source to our
in pottery images or temples, was spatial. Greek perception of space: quantum mechanics, relativity,
temples do not create external or internal space. non-Euclidean geometry… enhance the dominance
They guide and filter the flow of the surrounding of anti-space as a continuum, extensive, infinite
natural visual forces as Scully pointed out in realm that pervades everything. This influence
“The Earth the Temple and the Gods” which was very evident during the inter-war period and
incidentally is a book about the space of nature the rise of the artistic avant-gardes. How has this
and its tensions, perceptions and dynamics. So, in influence evolved until our days? Has anti-space
a way the background “radiation” of continuous “crystallized” to the point that it has become our
space (which later became “anti-space” in my natural conception of space?
characterization of our attitude) was always there
in some form of our understanding and perception. Perhaps we should use “Anti-Space” only
Space as figural entity is a man-made innovation. as a term for an attitude rather than a description
It is a medium of expression. of the actual continuum space. It is an expression
of a necessary duality to understand. If there is
MLM Hegel, as Goethe, looked back at gothic Space as closed form this is clarified by thinking of
architecture and praised its character of transcen- Space as also open ended formless. Of course, it is
dence and freedom from functional purposes and becoming “crystallized” as our culture’s “natural”
rational constraints and relations (1975, 684; image. That is the very danger I am writing to warn
1981, 120). Form is still relevant, but it is not about. It is a great loss capacity and finally will be
tied to the concept of space (his description of the end of place, if it is not recognized and resisted.
the space of the gothic naves is dynamic, fluid,
multiple… very similar to the notion of anti-space). The ideas from the fields of knowledge you
This is associated, he argues, to the complexity mentioned are false analogies for architectonic
of human interiority.Romanticism, according to space, because man-made closed space is basically
your article, was one of the factors that motivated static. It does not correlate with or derive in any way
the rise of anti-space. Still, Hegel’s texts reflect from these theories, which are about motion, the
an intermediate situation of transition between interaction of dynamic forces, and acceleration. All
space and anti-space. Somehow, this moment is this knowledge comes from realms that are outside
not reflected in the text. How could this transition of human tactile visual perception and can never be
be articulated? May the relational space of Leibniz experienced. What does non-Euclidean geometry
shed light on the issue, as contrasted to the built- feel or look like? Just because something has been
continuum of Hegel and the later appearance of widely adopted or tolerated does not make it true
anti-space? or beneficial.

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MLM Drawing techniques have been essential MLM The perception of space as an articulation
for architectural activity and, in this regard, the of physical –architectural- elements has also been
use of Beaux-Art’s poché used to be determinant explored through the perspective of negativity. In
in architectural compositions, in which “full” fact, the Polish architect Oskar Hansen developed
and “empty” space were separated. Obliterated a pedagogical tool called “active negative” which
during the first decades of the twentieth century, consisted on modelling the perception of space
its interest was recovered by scholars such as Colin through three-dimensional models. The idea was
Rowe or Alan Colquhoun (Castellanos Gómez not to represent exactly the shape of an inner
2010, 171). Robert Venturi (1977) would use the space (regarding architecture as a cast; that would
term -distinguishing between open and closed be a “passive negative”, similar to Luigi Moretti’s
poché-, giving it a more “spatial” meaning. How models), but to study and record the subjective
could this renewed interest be explained? Is this perception of space. Also Bruno Zevi reflected on
return to former tools also an attempt to return representational tools of architectural space using
to an autonomous architecture? positive/negative diagrams.

I like open and closed poché. I had never read These exercises reflect a deep interest in spatial
that before. Of course poché was not a Beaux- Arts questions. They are integrated within the theory of
invention. It occurs naturally as a consequence of Open Form, which is also related to ideas of open
packing together a series of volumetric shapes. space, dynamism, flows, subjective perception…
There will always be something left over. that are linked to the definition of anti-space. There
is a certain ambiguity in all these terms and socio-
However, it was obliterated by modernist architecture political contexts have definitely something to do with
precisely because that architecture wanted to be it, with associations such as openness-democracy;
“autonomous” with the consequent destruction closeness-totalitarianism, etc. Are we still unable to
of the cities’ urban fabric. So, bringing the idea describe and attribute qualities to space, or better
of closed space forward again is the opposite of a said, is it impossible to reach a common language?
return to autonomous forms. It is about reintegration
of solid and void co-dependency and it arises out SKP Moretti’s models of architectural voids always
of a fundamental dissatisfaction with modernist fascinated me. Of course it is understood that the
proscriptions against any closure or defined space. building fabric which define these “solid spaces”
Post Modernism is much derided today but it did have been stripped away. It is a method of analysis
constitute a revolution. to break out a part of something from its whole as a
constituent part to better understand it. The act of
MLM According to the article, space is perceived isolating the space from the rest is itself a product
and anti-space, conceived. Coincidence or not, these of modern scientific method.
are the terms that Lefebvre (1991) links to spatial
practice and representations of space respectively. [Is As to a kind of space corresponding to a po-
there a connection? Conceived/perceived by whom? litical or social system, you are right this is
Is anti-space related to a controlled -invisible- plan the common perception of spatial contexts;
and space to perceptions of everyday life? “openness=democracy” and “Closeness=
totalitarianism” or in more contemporary terms,
I think it is simply that we can know that the you could also say “openness=freedom of indivi-
universe is 15 billion light years in extent but we can’t dual” and “closeness= restriction on choice”. Of
perceive or believe it through experience. You know, course, the opposite is true. This is the point of Space
it takes a real mental effort to look up at the sun as it and Anti-Space, which was meant as an intellectual
rises in the morning and convince yourself to actually fable warning of this misconception.
feel that the ground is not flat but is a rotating giant
sphere moving at 2500 miles per hour while the sun is Closed forms of space produce multiple places,
virtually still. It is not wrong. For all practical purposes which allow for more choice, more freedom, more
the sun does rise and set. Conceptual and perceptual diversity, and the possibility of change without
don’t really cancel each other out. destruction or revolution. The more diverse specific

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 Revisiting anti-space. Interview with Steven K. Peterson.

Left: Luigi Moret- figural spatial forms that are created and available, surrounding, background, - the open
ti, Model of interior space
the more freedom there is to be different without (includes parks, landscapes, oceans, and
of Santa Maria by Guarino
Guarini, Lisbon, 1952-1953. interfering with others. This applies to both cities the sky that we look at and also fly through, the
Source: (1953) n.7,
and architectural plans. In an open-ended spatial whole earth seen from the moon). The third is:
p.19. Right: Oskar Hansen,
Active Negative, apartment infinite flux where everyone expresses themselves that which is formed only as an ancillary to the
in S dziowska Street in War-
there would be chaos and without boundaries there design of figural space. It is the left over at the
saw, 1950–55. Source: Pho-
tography by author, 2014. will be conflict. Boundaries are by –valent they both edges infilling between the elements of grouped
separate and join. In Robert Frost’s poem “Mending composition. Let’s call it (this is
Wall” two men are fixing up their common country habitable poché, the in between zone, left over
stone wall, one neighbor asks why do we still need area or what I used to call “negative space”). For
this? The other neighbor replies with the proverb, example, let’s do a thought experiment. Imagine a
because “fences make good neighbors”. group of different shaped coasters; ovals, squares,
rectangles, octagons, etc. all pushed together to
As to definitions of space types, first, I think the touch and interconnect. Together, they make
notion of “negativity” is not useful as a descriptive a new assembled complex figure composed of
term and of course “anti-space” is not real in the figural space.
sense of being descriptive either- it is a rhetorical
devise that serves as a warning about its uncritical Then place this assembly on a tight fitting
use. Let’s try a different approach suspending rectangular tray and observe the leftover surfaces
philosophy, science, and politics for a moment. of the tray. This left over space derives from both
the edges of the assembled figure of coasters and
There are really just three conditions of space that the bounding edge of the tray. It is derivative
we can experience as phenomena in our lives. The space and cannot exist without the interchange
first is man-made; formed, closed, between the created boundaries of figural space
(exterior piazzas or interior rooms and all the and a further outer boundary of enclosing form.
streets corridors and links that make sequences Then take the tray out into an open back yard.
and patterns). The second is: the natural unformed, Place it on the lawn in the surrounding world. The

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 Revisiting anti-space. Interview with Steven K. Peterson.

4 “What this mutual en- tray is then siting in the emptiness of continuous critical thinking among them. They are each just
croaching indicates is that
lnside and Outside never
space. striving so hard to be spectacular and different, that
cover the entire space: there no objective analytical comparisons are possible.
is always an excess of a third
If we added 10 trays and grouped them as a grid with
space which gets lost in the
division into Outside and ln- space between each tray then these would form streets The negative space described in the article appears
side (…) ‘For many, the real
and we could make a little defined square so it was as a formal -volumetric- question, and this, somehow,
magic of this building is the
dramatic sense of place in the like a town of trays. All of it sitting in a continuous renders it contemporary with current concerns of
‘leftover’ spaces between the
space background but made up of layers of figural a certain sector of architectural theoreticians and
theatres and the enclosure.
The curvaceous shapes of space, blocks of trays and residual derivative spaces. practitioners. This apparently ‘residual’, hidden
these public areas are the
space that appears as a ‘byproduct’ (as Slavoj
by-products of two separate
design processes- those of MLM The former works (Moretti’s and Hansen’s) Zizek puts it,4 with the example of the spandrel)
the acoustic- and logistic-
share some coincidences with Colin Rowe’s proposals of the built environment has been regarded as a
driven performing zones, and
the climactic- and structure- around the figure-ground phenomenon. However, really powerful realm for architecture in projective
driven envelope.’ Is this space
the political background behind them is absolutely terms. A space that remains hidden, unexpected,
which offers not only excit-
ing viewing areas of inside different… For instance, Hansen was concerned about in-between or even taken for granted… This
and outside, but also hidden
individual capacity and empowerment in a socialist architecture “of walls” has also been explored
corners to stroll or rest, not a
potential utopian space? (…) country, whereas a few years later, North American by artists like Gregor Schneider (Haus UR). What
The notion I propose here
groups –Texas Rangers, Five Architects, etc. - were may be the motivations to this turn to negative
is ex-aptation, introduced
by Stephen Jay Gould and interested in setting the basis for an architecture space? Is there a necessity of “useless” space,
Richard Lewontin: it refers to
mainly based in questions of form, without ideological for unexpected actions? To what extent is this a
features that did not arise as
adaptations through natural constraints. Do you see it reflected in the recent reflection on the contradictions between inner and
selection but rather as side
debate on criticality vs. post-criticality? –even if it outer space and/or a critique of an “envelope”
effects of adaptive processes
and that have been co-opt- is questionable that such a debate could be fruitful architecture?5
ed for a biological function.
nowadays, in such restrictive terms.
What should draw our at-
tention here is that Gould As I am thinking about this again, I believe that,
... continues on next page ... SKP I don’t know about criticality… The majority of these are good terms - “residual” “byproduct”
Gregor Schneider, buildings going up around the world now, which are space (just like the above “derivative space”).
Haus U R, 2001. Source:
publicized, consist of towers. They are so various in All these terms imply a dependency on first making
<http://ww.gregor-schnei-
der.de> shape, that there is no apparent idea of any analytical plans for buildings as well as piazzas or streets in

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 Revisiting anti-space. Interview with Steven K. Peterson.

...continuation of note 4... cities formed as figural space. There can be no against the definition of ‘architecture as space:’ from
and Lewontin borrowed the theory or actuality of “residual space”. It does Robert Venturi and Denise Scott-Brown arguing for
architectural term ‘spandrel’
(using the pendentives of not exist by itself. It is a byproduct of something ‘an architecture as sign rather than space’; to Rem
San Marco in Venice as an else. Koolhaas’ confession to having ‘always thought
example) to designate the
class of forms and spaces that the notion of ‘space’ [was] irrelevant’ despite his
arise as necessary byproducts Because of their antithetical condition, frequent use of the term.” How would it be possible
of another decision in design,
and not as adaptations for coexistence of space and anti-space is not possible, today to talk of space as a constitutive, still relevant
direct utility in themselves.” and only gradable by means of negative space, element in architecture? Besides, do you think that
( i ek 2010).
according to the article. This idea somehow connects architects, today, should still go back to the notion
5 Once again, Adolf Loos’ with Cacciari’s negative thought (1982; 2009) and of (formed) space, once they have lost their privilege
critique: “There are architects
who do things differently.
the impossibility of resolution of crisis. Is it possible over it? How to define the role of the architect today,
Their imaginations create to work within this contradiction in spatial terms? amidst the crisis of the profession?
not spaces but sections of
walls. That which is left over
around the walls then forms Figural Space (Space) and Continuous Space Well certainly, it is obvious that Rem thinks of
the rooms. And for these
rooms some kind of cladding
(Anti-Space) can and do coexist in reality. There space as irrelevant. It shows and it is a major flaw in
is subsequently chosen (…) is no inherent problem formally unless you insist his project for Lille where there is no differentiated
But the artist, the architect,
first senses the effect that he
on an ethical or moral argument that Continuous meaning among the parts but just a giant oval
intends to realize and sees Space is the only true space (like the only true wrapper that makes it a giant object repulsing all of
the rooms he wants to cre-
ate in his mind’s eye.” (Loos
religion). Then you are forced to argue that figural its surroundings. It is a basic premise of information
2008, 170) space is out of date, no longer new. It is wrong and theory that you need as many different forms
even culturally dangerous. Anti-Space must scrub (words, numbers, and differentiated shapes) as
away all traces of the other in a kind of formalistic possible to represent and “carry” more and more
counter-reformation. complex ideas. Figural space is a carrier of meaning
because it multi formed and not universally neutral
Today we talk of an “informational” society; (continuous space which is undifferentiated)
relations of production have changed again with the
dissolution of certain physical constraints. However, When Mr. Stanek uses “architecture as space” in
with the outburst of contemporary design tools, your quote, I think he is actually referring to “Modern
formal concerns seem to come back again, although space” as a universal open-ended condition that
the “individual” control of the architect is somehow could be revealed. Modernism was obsessed with
diluted, and distributed among many professionals. space talk, but it wasn’t figural space that was
How is anti-space (and space) related to the virtual, meant. It was a striving for universal sameness.
in a moment when the network society has been When Mies van der Rohe says about his own work
assumed? “It is the will if the epoch translated into space”
there are no rooms made. The architecture is about
Human beings still communicate through words revealing the transparent universal continuum of a
and images whether these are face-to-face or digital. new order of uninterrupted flow.
However, even with the cell phone, you are always
somewhere when you use it. It is too early to tell Bob Venturi wanted to reincorporate ornament,
how this will sort itself out. We still need places to symbolic elements and historical references into
be, so we need to make them as rich as possible. his work and eliminate the bland neutrality of
Modern space. He is creeping up on making figural
“The loss of space as an architectural medium space in hos buildings, even in his mother’s early
is, in effect, the loss of meaning.” This assertion fragmented plan there are subdivide areas and little
comes into conflict with Stanek’s (2012): “would it bits of poché. I don’ think you can argue that he
not be better to abandon the discourse on ‘space’ intended to substitute symbols for space. They are
and restrict architectural discourse to ‘buildings’, not mutually exclusive after all.
‘streets’, ‘squares’, ‘neighborhoods’, ‘parks’ and
‘landscapes’?” or “some of the most innovative About urban space, it seems logical to
contributions to architecture discourse and practice associate this “negative space” with the “voids”
over the last 40 years were developed explicitly of the city, the space between buildings, public

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space… In the article, the delimited space of streets team’s proposal: the reverse of the traditional wall
and squares is contrasted with the open “anti-space”, town, “the inhabited wall”, the articulation of the
“unsuitable to the city”, that could be associated urban poché, the critique to modernist space…
to sprawl or certain modernist ensembles. “Anti- To which extent did this project have an influence
space promotes utopianism because it rejects the on your Space and Anti-Space, especially on the
language of its antithesis.” If anti-space is egalitarian, development of the negative space concept? Besides,
homogeneous, random, formless, neutral… space do you see an evolution of your ideas in your recent
is hierarchical, diverse, leading to movement, urban-scale project proposal for Manhattan Ground
contradiction and conflict between groups; but Zero? (It seems that the plan loses importance in
both sides may appear in a same city, one next to favor of tridimensional space: the sunken garden,
the other. Could we find here the spatial encounter the articulation of different heights…) For the
between the “volumetric, plastic” and “political” local newspapers, your proposal was the most
negatives, beyond the mere rhetorical analogy? “manhattanist” in the final shortlist. Why did they
affirm this? We see on your project more gradual,
I still do not understand your continued livable spaces, human-scaled relationship with
interpretation of “negative space” nor what you persons; so is this a kind of desire in the collective
mean by “political” negatives. It surely does not unconscious against the NY heights?
apply to urban spaces like streets and squares. These
are positive entities. There can be negative space You realize of course, that both projects,
in cities (in my definition) but it is mostly residual the Les Halles in Paris of 1978 and WTC Rebuild
areas within the blocks, backyards irregular courts project of 2002 are designed around the same
etc., but streets and squares are positive volumes formal idea. They both use the same “parti” of an
of figural spaces shaped by the block surfaces, “inside” precinct hidden within the city. The inner
the void figures to the solid ground of the blocks. precincts of public gardens are also approximately
Urban space is not a leftover; it is the primary the same size.
medium of urbanism.
So, to be honest, the formalized idea of a theory
So, again, urban space is not “negative space” of space or for sure “negative space” had not even
(even in my apparently misunderstood definition, occurred to me when we did Les Halles. It was 5
which I am quite happy to abandon for clarity of years before I wrote the article. That doesn’t mean,
discourse, as I said, let’s call it Derivative Space). of course, that I didn’t learn from the designing
of it, but it was not conscious.
Urban Space is the communal exterior figural space.
There can be no urban in cities without networks Then, Ground Zero- to participate in the design
of linked figural space. Space is the primary and competition it was required to rebuild the exact
essential medium of the urban condition. 10 million Sq. ft. that had been lost and it had to
be office space.
The City is destroyed by the submission to and
adherence to the idea that open continuous space There was no choice but to build towers. The question
should dominate because it represents the true became for us how to also incorporate traditional
spirit of the time or is like scientific mathematical urban space on the ground in order to counteract or
space. It becomes Anti- Space (that is anti-spatial, at least work with the destructive dynamic vertical
by rejecting the use of figural space) it is a cultural aspect of towers. How can you have both city
attitude (as well as economic) that continuous space towers and urban texture? Your quote “collective
is given exclusive legitimacy. It is a corruption of unconscious against NY heights” is wishful thinking.
thought that gives rise to this uncritical acceptance I wish it had been the case but New York -the public-
of Anti-Space. wanted “their skyline back” -literally in letters to
the editor and public demonstrations- The Empire
With regard to your participation in Les State building, the Chrysler Building, the Rockefeller
Halles competition in Paris, it is possible to detect Center complex- What else is there? The Statue of
some of your ideas on negative space in your Liberty, but that is the image of NY.

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 Revisiting anti-space. Interview with Steven K. Peterson.

(top) San Carlino Box 1 (Text by Steven K. Peterson) Although conceived in opposite spatial terms,
alle Quattro Fontane, 1630.
these two plans are almost identical in every other
(bottom) Mill Owner’s As-
sociation building, 1953. (At These two plans represent opposite conceptions of organizational way. Curiously, they are virtually the
approximately the same gra- architectural space and form. On the left, Borromini’s same size. They have their main rooms in the same
phic scale). Source: Courtesy
of Steven K. Peterson. San Carlino interior is designed of multiple voids, left half of a bisected overall plan. They have the
each a different shaped volume, each a discrete same dynamic shaping of those main room walls,
independent room. It is made of Space itself wrapped one oscillating, and the other spiraling. They have
by various solid surface boundaries. The whole the same gathering space on the right half of the
complex is buried in a larger urban block; the outer plan, the columned cloister in one, and the columned
façades while referencing the interior also define open “loft” hall in the other.
exterior Space, two separate streets and the diagonal
corner fountain. It goes on. They both have the same “left over”
areas around the back, left sides of their main rooms,
On the right, Le Corbusier’s Mill Owner’s one a sequence of mini spaces to get to the corner
Association building is designed of objects located crypt/ tower stair, the other, visually apparent but
within an empty unrestricted spatial continuum. physically inaccessible, dead ended by a rectangle
The whole architecture is a square object composed for chair storage. Even the location of main stairs
of planes and screens floating on the open site. is the same, both the switch back rectangular ones
The interior is also a collection of objects floating in the front right and both the curved spirals in the
within the walls on an open floor. No closed static back right are in the same locations.
volumetric voids are allowed in this conception.
No interruptions are made to the background Borromini’s San Carlino could very well be the
void that everything sits in. It even flows into conscious antecedent for Corbusier’s Mill Owner’s
and through the object interiors, curving them building in Ahmedabad, India. It would not be a
into spirals and bending curves. It is, in this sense critical observation to make and it is unimportant
anti spatial unrestricted in order to achieve a free except to note that they are very much the same
field of object dominance. It is the opposite of “parti”. Their common logical arrangement is so
San Carlino. It is not the design of Space. It is the similar that it allows for an accurate basement
design of things within Anti-Space. of different attitudes and methods. It shows that

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 Revisiting anti-space. Interview with Steven K. Peterson.

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ción Del Residuo.” Stanek, Lukasz. 2012. “Architecture as Space, Again?
15 (15): 170–81. Notes on the ‘Spatial Turn.’” 4: 48–53.

Foucault, Michel. 1998. “Different Spaces.” In Venturi, Robert. 1977.

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