The document discusses the results of a Tan Delta test conducted on a 275KW, 6KV motor manufactured in 2008. Tan Delta readings were taken at voltages from 1.2KV to 3.4KV, with the highest reading being 4.62% at 3.4KV. The test party indicated this could signify partial discharge in the motor. The author is seeking advice on whether running the motor could cause failure and what actions should be taken.
The document discusses the results of a Tan Delta test conducted on a 275KW, 6KV motor manufactured in 2008. Tan Delta readings were taken at voltages from 1.2KV to 3.4KV, with the highest reading being 4.62% at 3.4KV. The test party indicated this could signify partial discharge in the motor. The author is seeking advice on whether running the motor could cause failure and what actions should be taken.
The document discusses the results of a Tan Delta test conducted on a 275KW, 6KV motor manufactured in 2008. Tan Delta readings were taken at voltages from 1.2KV to 3.4KV, with the highest reading being 4.62% at 3.4KV. The test party indicated this could signify partial discharge in the motor. The author is seeking advice on whether running the motor could cause failure and what actions should be taken.
The document discusses the results of a Tan Delta test conducted on a 275KW, 6KV motor manufactured in 2008. Tan Delta readings were taken at voltages from 1.2KV to 3.4KV, with the highest reading being 4.62% at 3.4KV. The test party indicated this could signify partial discharge in the motor. The author is seeking advice on whether running the motor could cause failure and what actions should be taken.
We tested Tan Delta test on a 6 KV HT Motor. We got the following readings at different voltages,
UVW Phase (Star Connected)
Voltage
(kV) Tan Delta (%) CAPACITANCE (nF)
1.2 3.2 130.82
1.8 3.24 130.82
2.4 3.33 130.98
2.9 3.79 131.73
3.4 4.62 133.17
Motor Details:
KW: 275KW
KV: 6KV
Manuf. Year: 2008
The tested party said that these readings indicate partial discharge. We don't have any spare motor for this. Kindly suggest these readings really indicate serious Partial discharge???
If we run the motor it will fail? Or it will take long time to fail?? What are the actions to be taken for this?
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#2 "Re: Tan Delta Test on 6KV HT Motor" by TonyS on 08/22/2011 9:21 AM (score 1)
#5 "Re: Tan Delta Test on 6KV HT Motor" by rsbarve on 08/23/2011 1:01 AM (score 1)
If you don't have a spare what choice do you have? You run it and get a spare sorted quickly. If you can leave it shut down then you've all the time in the world, until you need it in a hurry!
It's your call, it's risk assessment!
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olehwi #3 Power-User
Re: Tan Delta Test on 6KV HT Motor
08/22/2011 10:59 PM Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Canada You do not provide sufficient information for anyone to provide you Posts: 126 with advice.
Good Answers: 6 Yes, the motor is breaking out seriously into corona just below the operating voltage.
How soon will the motor break down - will depend on the insulation used in the motor and on the number, amplitude and frequency of over-voltages and surges appearing at the terminals of the motor.
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leveles Guru #4
Re: Tan Delta Test on 6KV HT Motor
08/22/2011 11:24 PM Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1756 The scarcity of the explanations allow two possibility. One is Good Answers: 59 Olehwi's: the motor run long enough highly stressed, and low level of corona discharge is eating the insulation at the end of its life. The other is, that the motor was in storage long enough to absorb moisture in the insulation. That can be cooked out by running the motor without load for a couple of days, giving a chance the moisture to bake out.
BUT, I have a problem with the basic question itself. Any motor is a very lossy capacitor from the silicon iron lamination alone. What is the loss factor in a newly assembled motor? Without knowing that, deterioration - if any - can only be guesstimated.
One more note. Corona and other insulation failure modes are voltage threshold dependent. You will see them at higher than normal voltages. Attempting to measure them at low voltages, as reported, is meaningless.
Register to Reply rsbarve #5 Participant
Re: Tan Delta Test on 6KV HT Motor
08/23/2011 1:01 AM Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3 Cannot give a specific answer. However , some thoughts below-
1) Assuming that the voltage was between line and earth, you have already reached near phase voltage 3468V which is likely to happen with earthed neutral system. So less problem in analysis and also with the motor if it is the case.
2) Take heart! Does not appear too bad as various factors are involved in diagnosis. One of them is the insulation system used. Older systems have higher tan delta on which IEC allowed approx.4.5 % at rated voltage. Olehvi & levles are right and you should have report of condition on new motor for better understanding.Otherwise, check the system used and results of same make from same manufacturer.
3) The tip up of current is not bad.They must have stopped further
testing due to limitation on bridge to have more than 150/200 mA current. If the readings at rated voltage do not shoot up, there is less probability of catastropic failure.
4)Also tip up of tan delta between 20 % & approx 60 % rated
voltage is not too bad considering that you cannot test a complete motor with guard rings at the ends of each coil. Most probably, the manufacturer must have used a stress grading tape at the end of the coils which increase tip up.
5) Cleaner and dry 0verhang can improve tan delta if the windings are found contaminated with conducting dust.
pl keep posted if further investigations and actions taken
regards
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MMKumar #6 Active Contributor In reply to #5
Re: Tan Delta Test on 6KV HT Motor
Join Date: Jun 2011 08/23/2011 6:15 AM Posts: 13 kindly give details how do u analysis the tan delta results.
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ARUN DOGRA #7 Participant In reply to #6
Re: Tan Delta Test on 6KV HT Motor
Join Date: Sep 2011 09/15/2011 5:05 AM
Posts: 3 AS YOU KNOW THE TAN DELTA TEST ALSO CALLED LOSS ANGLE OR DISSIPATION FACTOR TESTING , IS A DIAGNOSTIC METHOD OF TESTING MOTOR WINDINGS INSULATION QUALITY. IF THE INSULATION IS GOOD, FREE FROM DEFECTS LIKE WATER TREE, ELECTRICAL TREE, MOISTURE AND AIR POCKETS ETC THE WINDING APPROACHES THE PROPERTY OF A PERFECT CAPACITOR. IF THERE ARE IMPURITIES IN THE INSULATION, THE RESISTANCE OF INSULATION DECREASES, RESULTING THE INCREASE IN RESISTIVE CURRENT THROUGH THE INSULATION. THE CURRENT AND VOLTAGE WILL NO LONGER BE 90 DEGREE OUT OF PHASE AND THE DIFFERENCE IN OUT OF PHASE (FROM PEFECT POSITION OF 90 DEGREE) IS THE INDICATIVE LEVEL OF INSULATION CONTAMINATION/DETEORIATION. THIS IS CALLED TAN DELTA. ANALYSIS OF READINGS THE READINGS SHALL BE ANALYSED IN REFERENCE TO THE MANUFACTURER RESULTS/DESIGN RESULTS. THE INCREASING TREND W.R.T INCREASING TEST VOLTAGE AND BY AGAING GIVES THE INDICATION OF FUTURE FAILURE. NORMALY THE VALUE SHOULD BE BELOW .03 RADIAN (3%) HOWEVER THE INTERPRETATION SHALL BE CONCLUDED ON CHECKING PD,PI, DELTA C , DC LEAKAGE CURRENT & SURGE TEST ALSO. REGARDS AKD
mohanlal (Electrical) (OP) 9 Jan 06 06:18 The generator / motor winding power factor or tan delta test was carried out for the 3.3 KV equipments. The generator ratings are 8.0 MW & motor ratings are from 175 KW to 1600 KW. The test referred to as Tip-up test is performed at a number of levels of voltage from 25% to 100% of line to ground voltage to obtain the PF vs voltage chs. PF Tip up value is defined as the difference between the PF measured at the line to ground voltage and the PF measurred at teh lowest voltage in the test range (usually 25% of the line to ground voltage.) The double system includes online DTA expert condition evaluation software,which evaluates and rates the dielectric condition of the insulation tested from the test results by comparison against the limits of PF of reliable winding insulation of units of identical make, type, and ratings with the unit tetsed as well as against previous test records of the unit where available. In such test one of the generator is having % PF of average 6% for phase to ground and 3 % for phase to phase. If the insulation is epoxy-mica, then the % pf is high and indicates possible deterioration. Recommended to test it again within next three months to monitor the trending. Now the equipment is on line. Could anybody conclude from the test values and what is required to be done next? I request Ragunath also to join in this question forum. Thanks, Subramanian
RE: Generator / Motor winding Tan-Delta (PF) test
motorspert (Electrical) 9 Jan 06 07:49 At 3300V we would not recommend Tan delta testing. the coils won't have corona sheields, so the earting is dodgy and readings would be unreliable. Also, at such low phase voltages there would not be any discharges within the coils. We only test at 4500V and above even at 4500V teh value of the test is debatable.
By all means repeat in three months - but ask the company or persons who are doing the tests for you to justify why you need them.
RE: Generator / Motor winding Tan-Delta (PF) test
edison123 (Electrical) 9 Jan 06 22:57 I agree with motorpsert. IEEE 286 states that PF and tan delta is useful for 6 KV and above. 3.3 KV motors do not have stress grading and anti corona systems since the partial discharges start at over 6 KV.
* Homer Wisdom - "Operator, Give me the number for 911" *
RE: Generator / Motor winding Tan-Delta (PF) test
vmere (Electrical) 10 Jan 06 06:50 TAN/DELTA testing of transformers & motors.
We have 30mva transformers with open air 132kv hv bushing.
i require information/explanation on how to do this test & why is required. What are expected values from tests. Does this give one a foot print of the insulation of bushing/winding, etc?
